I don't think we need legalised firearms, but legalised self-defense (including tazers, pepperspray, etc). Shooters miss.... At worst, a tazer will miss the target but not kill someone else. Okay, there's a slim chance of death, but it happens. I do agree though, criminalising guns only affects honest citizens, not the criminals. We need better self defense opportunities. The rampagers are just bad examples of society, not good examples of bans.
I asked for the statistics for gun crime from 1969 to 2009 from the Home Office, which they provided for me. The figures show a massive increase in firearms offences in the last 40 years. There were 717 offences with guns recorded by police in 1969. By 2009, that figure had increased to 9,865 crimes.
That's an increase of more than 1,270 percent in just 40 years. For a copy of the FOI request letter that I received from the Home Office, send me a message with your email address.
I always tell people to give me 1 example where gun laws have reduced violent crime. They come back with look at the UK vs the US or just give another stat from somewhere or show a place where gun deaths went down but overall deaths didn't. This just shows me that they have a fear of guns & don't understand the scientific method. Comparing US & UK is like saying Florida has more guns & grows more oranges than NYC. Then coming to the conclusion that guns cause oranges to grow. It's just not valid
Revolvers and automatic weapons are very rare in the UK.If law abiding citezens were allowed hand guns it would then make it very easy for criminals to get hold of them too and before you know it we would have a MAJOR gun problem like the US
There were 39 gun deaths in the U.K. last year and 35,000 in the U.S. so of course gun control works. The guy in this video is talking crap about gun deaths going up - they have gone down despite an overall rise in crime. And Derick Bird owned a LEGAL shotgun. He also states that is people owned guns they could have stopped him. I challenge him to name one instance where this happened prior to the gun ban. We have never had a schools shooting in England - keep it that way.
@MrSoprano0125 - I did not say that an armed person had NEVER stopped a crime anywhere in the world I gave specific statistics and a rebuttal to the points raised in the video regarding the U.K. and gun control.
@WillShakespeare2007 how is having tight gun control a good thing? we should make them less strict and allow law abiding citizens to have certain guns for self defense. i personally dont think having guns in public is a good thing at all, people shouldnt be able to carry guns in the street.
but in my home i believe i have the right to protect my partner, my daughter and I.
this guy personally is speaking certain truths but also much shit.
@crazybraintv - Firstly I said in England NOT in the UK but actually we have not had a school or college shooting since the hand gun ban. When have you had to protect your family with a gun? Seriously? The reality is that if people could get guns legally the streets would be awash with them and we end up like America. I just gave the stats - U.S. 35,000 guns deaths each year - U.K. 40 p/a. Do you want annual gun mass shootings like the U.S.? Gun control is clearly working.
@WillShakespeare2007 well for your information scotland operates the same laws as england FACT, and yes we have had a school shooting since handgun and replica ban and it was in london he shot a teacher in the face. when have i needed to have a gun to protect my family? at the moment never, but ask my neighbours that same question and they will tell you 3 days ago when they where burgled and assulted!
also read my post clearly and you will see that i dont condone guns on the streets like USA
@WillShakespeare2007 and their carry conceal policies but i support non lethal weapons like pepper spray, tasers and batons to protect ones self from low life, when have i needed one of these before a few years ago when i was robbed! america has a population 10 times the size of the uk so its expected and besides where did you get your numbers from? probably a government website where stats and figures are toyed with a bit to make the country look better.
@WillShakespeare2007 guns for home defence is a must, reasonable force is a joke in the home and castle law should be reinstated. every englishmans home is his castle. so self defence should be a good enough reason to own one.
i hope you never need to protect yourself or your family, because if you ever did have to they would be screwed because your are so left wing and timid it scares me people can be so brainwashed.
also handguns should be allowed, gun crime on the hole has gone up since it
@crazybraintv - I have protected my family but unlike you I'm not a coward that wants everyone else at risk so I can sit at home with a gun.
The facts are that guns kill 1000's for each 1 they protect. U.S. = 35,000 shot dead p/a! These are not people protecting themselves and their homes, these are criminals using guns against them. Did legal guns protect the people in Norway? Columbine? Virginia Tech? No legal guns were used to kill them.
@WillShakespeare2007 so EVERYONE who owns a gun is a gun is a coward, a potential maniac and a time bomb? Now you are painting a very wide brush and generalizing all legal gun owners!
First off, Norway has strict gun laws like we do, Columbine and Virginia Tech occured in a place called gun free zones where guns were prohibited in campus grounds but did not stop the two in Columbine nor Chung sui hui.
And finally, you're blaming guns as a cause of death! Not the people that wield them!
@MrSoprano0125 - I called YOU a coward as you're too much of a wimp to defend your family without putting everyone else's family at risk by arming the entire population.
Check your facts. Norway guns were legally purchased, he became a member of a gun club for this purpose AFTER failing to find illegal guns. The Columbine guns and ammo were purchased legally for them by a girlfriend. V.T. guns came from a shop.
We have 40 gun deaths a year! Why? Gun prohibition. It clearly works.
@WillShakespeare2007 no one in Oslo was armed to stop Anders Behring Breivik from killing 90 people and the police arrived too late. No one on campus was armed to stop Hui or Columbine due to strict regulations on gun on campus, no one was armed to stop derrick bird and deaths was only prevented coz he killed himself and police couldn't locate him in the Cumbria countryside....
/watch?v=DuhKCiY-lu0&feature=related <--- yeah I like to see you try and defend yourself and your family from these 4 with just your fists.
And you call them cowards for using firearms for self defense espacially someone who is less fortunate then you as able to defend yourself from an armed criminal?
@WillShakespeare2007 It's fine if you don't want to use a firearm and no one is forcing you to but don't sit on your pacifist throne calling law abiding gun owners cowards. Some are incapable of defending themselves without guns and you are just being unfair to those incapable of defending themselves......
@MrSoprano0125 - So I'm a "pacifist" am I because I don't want pathetic illiterate little morons like you running around armed with pistols. Look at you! You are now claiming some are "incapable of defending themselves without guns" as you have lost every intelligent retort. So just because wheel chair users and people like you cannot protect yourself or satisfy your wife real men should have wonder if you will pull out out a gat. Man up! You smell of fear and impotence.
@WillShakespeare2007 "So just because wheel chair users and people like you cannot protect yourself or satisfy your wife real men should have wonder if you will pull out out a gat. Man up! You smell of fear and impotence."
Didn't you see the video links I put in? About a woman being raped and defending herself and a guy being outnumbered by 4 guys with AKs? That's okay! I don't mind having illiterate little morons like you running around with your fists getting shot down by home invaders.....
@WillShakespeare2007 Firstly fear he would have no fear. Guns keep people from living in fear. "A well armed society is a respectful society."
Second, gun control will not work in the US, and ESPECIALLY not in the South here in TX. You try to do that, and you will have not only an army of armed people marching against the government to shut it down, but also the majority of the military will not oppose them, because they troops will do what they know is right, because the majority are Southern!
@WillShakespeare2007 You want women to just be at the mercy of any man that might want to hurt them? Norway: Very strict gun laws, nobody had a legal gun to stop him. Columbine: Gun free zone. Virginia Tech: Gun free zone. US vs UK? When did it become valid to compare one country to another? Wouldn't it be better to look at the same area before & after gun laws? Chicago, NYC, Washington DC. Deaths went up after gun laws. What happened in the UK after gun laws? Oh yea, violent deaths went up.
@WillShakespeare2007 Both Columbine & Virginia Tech the guns were bought illegally. Columbine: The guns were illegally bought for underage kids. V Tech: Cho had a mental HX that disqualified him from owning a gun. Norway: It is highly regulated. Did that prevent it? What if guns were easier to get there? Maybe someone could have stopped him. It's not valid to compare one place to another. You must look at the same place before & after gun laws. Show me1 valid study showing gun laws reduce deaths
@WillShakespeare2007 Harvard Journal of law & Public Policy: Article; Would Banning Guns Reduce Murder & Suicide is a good general review of the literature for several countries. It shows gun laws have no ability to reduce violent deaths and in some areas violent deaths went up and violent crime not resulting in death went up drastically. Kohen & Felson Suitable Target Theory on Crime illustrates why this is the case. Now, give me just 1 valid study illustrating gun laws reducing violent death
@shananagans5 - I have not read this study and I'm certainly not going to do it for your benefit. As every "fact" you stated above was simply lies I find it hard to believe you are suddenly telling the truth on this issue.
Why not take a moment to look at the murder rates in every nation on earth. The nations with easy access to guns are the ones with the highest murder rates. Why do you think the U.S. murder rate is so high? Are you all just psychos? Or could it be all the guns?
@WillShakespeare2007 That's typical liberal thinking. Rejecting real evidence in favor of looking for scraps that allow you to maintain a flawed belief. The subject of crime rates& crime patterns is more complex than guns are bad or looking only at gun deaths. Is someone less dead if they jump off a building? It is not valid to compare one place to another. You can't draw a conclusion until you look at the same area before & after gun laws. Did laws reduce index crime in the UK? DC? NYC?Chicago?
@WillShakespeare2007 You look foolish arguing against basic scientific method. By your argument you could make a case that oranges cause crime. Florida has far more oranges than the UK, there is also more crime in Fla. It must be the oranges. There is virtually no crime in the antarctic and there isn't a single orange tree. Does that work? Of course it doesn't. You must isolate a variable and test it before you can say anything. Just because you think something is correlated doesn't make it so.
@JoshRobertson142 There were fewer spree or rampage shooting in the UK than in the US before the UK gun bans. The US simply has far more very violent criminals and they use the most effective thing they can get. On overall index crime the UK did lower the #of gun deaths after the ban for a while but the overall murder rate didn't fall. It actually went up a bit. That is the exact pattern change seen in US cities with gun bans. That trend is also reversing with relaxing laws.
which guns ban? to my knowledge guns have always been hard to obtain in the UK since the 20's, it's not about murder rate as far as i'm considered guns or not people will always have motivation to kill, and guns make up such a small % of UK murders you can't say lack of guns caused a change in it, the UK has a knife crime problem, i'd rather them stab each other than shoot each other, lot harder to miss with a knife don't you think?
@JoshRobertson142 In 97 the UK passed extensive gun laws. It was the most extensive & sudden ban, or close to, in a developed country in modern times. That is why it drew so much attention from the criminology profession. I never said it lowered the murder rate, I said it lowered gun deaths for a few yrs but Murder rates remained fairly stable (slightly ^) Some stats show drastic increases but that is due to changes in the way index crime was defined & logged rather than actual increases.
even before 97 you couldn't go out and buy a gun. "defend themselves & lowers overall deaths a bit" what evidence is there to say it lowers murders? would you not agree though legalizing guns gives the gangs and people who snap more opportunity to get there hands on them?
@JoshRobertson142 True, before 97 there were some restrictions but fairly easy to get one if you wanted. I am going off the general body of criminology literature meaning you have to kind of average out many studies. Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy has a good review of literature in an article called Would Banning Guns Reduce Murder and Suicide. It is a fair review of several countries. Easy access to guns does allow criminals easier access but it is more than offset by defensive gun use
@JoshRobertson142 If you are really interested in this subject I would say read up on Kohen & Felson Suitable Target Theory on Crime. This will explain why there are drastic changes in crime patterns with strong gun control.
I would also recommend going to any school that has a criminology department and looking through the studies on gun control & crime rates. Go to the actual criminology journals & read studies first hand & not just looking at a stat here & there that really mean nothing
In all honesty i don't think some American written books will prove anything, maybe in America where people have always owned guns it could stop crime, but here in Britain even in the 1920's when you could just go out and buy a gun whenever gun ownership was still very low, even if we made guns legal again i don't see millions of people going out to buy them. i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.thanks anyway.
@JoshRobertson142 Books?? No, they're scientific journals, from all over the world. It is not opinion. You seem to be missing the entire point. Major public policies should be set based on knowledge & not false beliefs or emotion. The scientific evidence shows very slight decreases in murder when there are guns in a society but The real ? is does a society want to live with crime typical of areas with few guns or many because it's the patterns that change drastically & effect people every day.
@JoshRobertson142 Personally, I think people should be allowed to defend themselves even with a gun if needed. The gun laws have very little effect on overall index crime but it does effect crime patterns. If criminals know their potential victim isn't armed there is no fear & little risk in them going after a woman or elderly person & the stats illustrate this. With guns you get a few accidental vics but I must go with what allows ALL people to defend themselves & lowers overall deaths a bit
@JoshRobertson142 When you wade through the BS of playing with numbers changes in rates really are fairly small. The pattern changes are more drastic & both sides try to twist this to support their side but fact is, guns or lack of has a small effect. I have studied this for yrs and the big thing I see is areas with lots of guns have far fewer murders of non-participating strangers. Basically crims are scared if they don't know if someone's armed. Kohen&Felson Suitable Target explains this well
@JoshRobertson142 Cont 500 characters sucks Most violent crime is felon on felon but with more guns in a society this effect increases meaning the % of law abiding vics decreases. Better to let the criminals kill each other than good, law abiding people. It is not understood why this happens but it is an established, pronounced pattern. In areas with high gun ownership it's very rare for a non felon to be murdered. Areas with few guns you can have 15 or 20% of victims that are truly innocent
@mandolinic population level differs from the US and the UK....
Seeing as though the UK is a tiny small island with a small population and the US is a very big country with 50 states each consists of million upon millions of Americans, OF COURSE Homicide rates are going to be higher than homicide rates in the UK......
@MrSoprano0125 Homicide rates are normally expressed as a number per 100,000 population, which corrects for differences in population size. After making this correction, the UK homicide rate is lower than the US rate by a factor of 2 or 3. Why?
Why are you asking the same question? And does it really make a difference if you expressed them per 100,000? You';re still going to get the same conclusion that they differ because of population level. Want to ask the same question again? I'll give you the same answer.....*sheesh!*
@MrSoprano0125 The US's population density is 87 per square mile, the UK's is 660 people per sqare mile. So we're far more densely packed than they are ... so why is our murder rate per hundred thousand LOWER than theirs?
Now answer the question, and try to do it without resorting to insulting language.
@mandolinic The WHOLE of the US has 87 people per square mile? So I'm guessing you've never taken cities and towns into account where there is probably in an average US city 200,000 or more people per square block where a high rate of homicides can occur and not in a rural country area.
You're asking about density when you've never taken towns and cities into account and generalising every square mile of US to having 87 people per square mile. *facepalm*
@mandolinic And as for the UK density of 660 people per square mile, the country is well rather smaller then the US.
But again. Never have you have taken cities and towns into account but we have less cities then the US so homicides rates are bound to be lower then the US due to what?
@MrSoprano0125 "Is your head up your ass for the warmth?"
Your job is to try to persuade me that your position is correct, just as you've got to persuade law makers, the press and the general public. Do you think that immediately insulting anyone who asks a legitimate question or two is going to help persuade people that you're right? You'll get a damn site harder questions than this is you ever start a political campaign so get used to it now and stop using insults.
@mandolinic I see that you are beyond persuading since you are trying to ask idiotic questions and asking them again. If you are acting like a stupid moron, expect to be insulted.....
@MrSoprano0125 So, when you start your campaign to change the gun laws, and you're interviewed by Jeremy Paxman, and he keeps pressing you to answer a question that you can't answer, you're going to tell him he's stupid, and his head is up his ass - Wow! That's going to convert the general public.
@mandolinic if I answered a question already in which I have answered and he keeps pressing when the answer has already been told, then of course he is going to look stupid and moronic and the general public would see that he is just being a stupid moron asking the same question expecting a different answer.....
But i'm sure Paxman has a reason to repeat the same questions over and over because when he asks them, most people tend to deteer away from giving an answer
@MrSoprano0125 But you haven't answered the question. The UK is eight times more densely packed with people than the US, but our murder rate (per 100,000) is lower. Why?
The UK is the same size of a typical US state. The UK as a whole is probably the same size as the state of Maine! Again! Asking the same question, we will come to a conclusion yet again that it is due to population levels.
It's obvious that you want to go around in circles like a dog chasing it's tail.......
So yank your head out of your ass and stop being such a moron.....
@MrSoprano0125 "So yank your head out of your ass and stop being such a moron....."
Just when you were doing so well. You were building a plausible argument but then you lost it and resorted to insults.
The point here isn't my whether or not my questions are stupid - it's YOUR response to those questions. Any Brit reading this exchange will conclude that you (and by extension all your supporters) can't control their tempers and therefore aren't fit to carry guns. Sorry, you lose.
@mandolinic ok....so lets dismiss ours arguments because I hurt your feelings with insults and you saying that we are psychopathic maniacs who can't control our tempers and say we arn't responsible enough to use guns because idiots like you asking the same question over and over again.
@MrSoprano0125 The bottom line. In the US the average citizen has a higher chance of being murdered than in the UK. The average New Orleans resident has a higher chance chance of being murdered than the average New Yorker. In both comparisons, places with laxer gun control laws have the higher murder rates. All comparisons are corrected for population size differences.
It therefore follows that relaxing UK gun law will lead to an increase in the UK murder rate.
@MrSoprano0125 That is a smart question. About 2/3 of all murders in the US used firearms; the remainder are the usual mix of stabbing, blunt instruments, arson, etc.
@MrSoprano0125 Another smart question. I use the web to search for official documents, such as national crime surveys. There isn't room in YT postings to list sources. Each figure I've posted today I've looked up afresh rather than relying on my memory.
If you ever start a national campaign you'll hear far worse than anything I've said ;-)
You paint me as being anti-gun. Not so, I'm anti-murder. I'm open to persuasion that relaxing the gun laws will lower the murder rate, but I'll only be persuaded by using carefully argued statistics and logic, not insults and extracts from Bond movies.
@MrSoprano0125 BTW, just to torpedo your silly little hypothesis that higher populations lead to higher murder rates:
New Orleans pop 336,425 murder rate 0.52 per 100,000.
New York pop 8,400,907 murder rate 0.06 per 100,000.
So you're 8 times safer in New York than New Orleans, yet NY's population is 24 times higher. In fact, NY is the US's most populated city and it has one of the lowest murder rates.
@mandolinic You're comparing cities rates rather then country rates!
It doesn't change the matter of the fact that a high population as a whole in a COUNTRY is the reason why homicide rates are higher in the US then in the UK.......
@MrSoprano0125 I'm not sure you've really got the hang of murder rates per 100,000. I agree that there will almost certainly be a higher absolute number of murders per year in a country with a higher population, but this higher population is taken into account by expressing murder rates as a number per 100,000 of the population. So the US STILL has a higher rate of murders than the UK even after correcting for the different population sizes. And you've yet to explain why that is.
@MrSoprano0125 It's clear to me now that you don't understand the difference between the absolute number of murders and the murder rate per 100,000, nor why it's the murder rate per 100,000 rather than the absolute number of murders which is the important figure.
Hey, lets get the fact right. This person shot people. That is what the gun controller will say. Here is the facts. This person shot UNARMED people. This is the fact that the gun controllers don't want reported. Not people being shot but UNARMED people beiing shot. Ask this question, did the person that was shot ARMED? If you say NO, the gun control has totally failed. For every person that is UNARMED that is shot by a criminal with a gun, gun control has totally failed.
How many more times do we have to say it?Legitimate handguns Pre-1996 were not used in many crimes,except for the odd few,just like thesedays the odd idiot blasts someone with a shotgun.Things now&then you read about.Gun crime increased because of: changes in our societies,acceptance of gangsta rap,gangsta rappers glorfying guns&finally some bastards who were ex-armed forces,worked out how to convert blank firing pistols,along with the Brock Air-catridge pistols&made money out of their miseries.
@MarineAqua45 This is what the anti gun mob appear not to understand. Just look at illegal drugs for a good comparison. Any city, town and even most villages in the UK illegal drugs are readily available. Same applies to illegal firearms. Legal guns where never the problem. Even then with all these illegal guns there still only responsible for thousandths of a percent of deaths in the UK. So even the illegal guns are a relatively minor problem here in the UK.
The anti-gun mob,I think work on the basis of 'If I don't like it,I want to ban it',much in the same way as the Australians have banned guns with an assault-weapon appearence.I caught out an anti-gun activist on Youtube,when I told him that gun crime was less common in the 80s,than today&that machine guns weren't used&I told him to think back to his childhood& the reply was like this:"What Ive learnt in the 80s was the English language,that you seemed to have neglected.Talk about being dickhead.
you can use the 'criminalization of guns wont stop criminals from finding guns' argument all you want. People I knew were killed by legal weapons in an area that hasn't had any major gun crime in the past. Don't expect us to believe that arming more people is a good idea. I'd rather a criminal be caught in the process of trying to obtain an illegal firearm than have it just handed to them.
As a legitimate firearm user, charities are frequently insulting, demonising me as a lunatic, and the government taxes and restricts weapons with ridiculous reasons!
The ony way "gun control" could work is if someone gets their hands on a TARDIS, goes back in time to ancient China, and kills the guy who invented Gunpowder.
Barring that, we must consider that since the Gunpowder Genie is out of the bottle, and anyone who wants a firearm can get one, gun laws or no.
It's not surprising that the very DAY that a politician (who is against gun control, by the way) gets shot in the US, the PC crackpots start clamoring and beating the Gun Control drum!
it takes the cops a 15 minutes to 1 hour to show up to a crime, unless your a bank or some one of importance, while the crooks are rapping your wife killing your grandmom, hauling off with your kids and your property just remember i wont wait,, im a gun owner,, i will defend my family,,
it is so wrong that all rsponsible people should be banned from having guns just because a few people have gone on rampages, if criminals want guns they will get them of the streets anyway. The government in this country should loosen gun laws slightly so that all law abiding citizens can enjoy shooting firearms.
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - Those cities and states that allow law abiding citizens to carry firearms for self-defence have a far lower number of gun-related crime. Why risk robbing a 7/11 at 2.00am if the clerk can put a bullet in you? A gun makes a 90lb woman, a senior citizen, a disabled person, equal with a 200lb mugger. Its all down to individual responsibility, isn't it? You will always have the good guys and the bad guys. Why keep the good guys defencelesss against armed criminals?
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - We had an incident in Calgary where two gangsters walked into a restaurant and shot a rival gang mermber and an innocent young woman to death as they sat and had dinner. One customer tried to flee, but the gunmen caught up with him and shot him down in the carpark. The police took seven imuntes to get there. What if that third customer, or even any of the restaurant staff had a gun and were trained to use it?
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - In British Columbia, the owner of a jewelry store was able to retrieve his handgun from a safe and shoot back at two men who threatened his wife at gunpoint when attempting to rob the store. One of the robbers was paralyzed by a bullet in his spine while the other coward left his accomplice behind. The public overwhelmingly took the side of the store owner and the charges that were brought against him by the police for defending his own property (and spouse) were dropped.
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - So, should the store owner had been charged, prosecuted, sent to prison, have lost his business taken away and made a criminal for the rest of his life? The two men who attempted to rob him would receive councelling, plea-bargained reduced sentencing, full social work support, minimum security imprisonment and generous government support upon their release. Makes me wonder who the criminals really are, the robbers or the system!
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 are you highly retarded? Criminals are gonna use guns gun control or no gun control. The solution is not eliminating gun crime but reducing gun crime and how you can counter gun crime.
Also take a look at places like Switzerland and Norway where they have the lowest gun crime in Europe and it is also where they don't have tight gun laws.
@MrSoprano0125 Yes Switzerland is a great example as you know swiss people bring there assault rifles home with them when there at leave from the army, (so they can mobilizes a army quick) anyway this works the same as the Nuclear Weapon deterrent , if i know my neighbor has a gun, i ant gonna break in and try and rape his wife.
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 If a person is a criminal, he should not be out on the street to begin with. I have no faith in your governments ability to keep a criminal on the street but disarmed so he can only launch insults instead of bullets. I do have confidence in my ability to stop any armed criminal so the police can take a report and haul off the body.
A lot of gun supporters here are bringing up the issue of gun control apparently allowing criminals to commit crime.
It is gun supporters who seem to have no problem with ANYONE getting their hands on a gun- because hey, its their 'liberty'. By definition, if you are opposed to gun control, then you think criminals should have guns.
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - No-one is arguing that "everybody" should have a gun. No matter how much you ban something, whether its guns, alcohol, drugs, etc, there will always be a thriving black market to meet the demand. SENSIBLE gun control is needed. Tony Blair's macho "total ban" on handguns has led to a 92% increase in gun crime in the UK. Not even the UK Olympic shooting team are allowed to practise in mainland Britain. How insane is that?
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 no....if you are opposed to gun control then you think law abiding citizens should have guns to defend themselves against criminals with guns. Not wanting criminals to carry guns. You say you've grasped the fact that criminals gets guns gun control or no gun control but you don't actually see the actual fact that criminals would rather hold up an unarmed person than a person armed with a gun.
Would you dare rob me if you pulled a knife at me and I pull a gun at you?
@mufc4527 No mate,now thats not true,not by any stretch of the imagination.Gun crime escalated well after the 2 major gun bans,partly of immigration into the UK,by increased number of West Indians,Africans&now Eastern Europeans.The latter will smuggle in guns from Eastern Europe,which used to belong to their armies&police forces,under the old USSR,as these guns come from Soviet arms dumps.When it was legal to buy an AK in Britain,gun crime was non-existant&the same goes for pistols.The truth.
@mufc4527 I'll point you in the right direction:ask the BASC for your information&then ask them why they think gun crime had risen then.It did rise in the 1980s&peaked in 1993,but fell by 17% in 1995(A year in which pistols were still legal:-),Its obvious to me that you are anti-gun&that you will not accept any of my points.I will admit to you,some legal arms have been used,but only a tiny percentage of them,as most crooks wont go near them,as they are easily traced by the police,.
@mufc4527 channel4.com/news/london-gun-crime-figures-worryingly-high been watching the news? Take a look at London nowadays and now they want to waste more taxpayer's money on trying to reduce the number of illegal firearms on the streets. You'll see in the statistics that problems with gun crime has consisted and been rising up again. Thanks anti gun laws for protecting the shopkeeper and the five year old girl........
"you'll see in the statistics that problems with gun crime has consisted and been rising up again."
well the last 2years has had 39/40 murders, thats 18 less than in 1997 and we have a higher population today, so have you got any proof to back up your claim of "gun crime has consisted and been rising up again"
@mufc4527 Okay then,those (Probably Home Office:-) statistics seem accurate,as I remeber reading,something about them,but what percentage of those incidents came from legal guns?Guns that might have been stolen from gun dealers/wholesalers& or from private owners?Do you have those statistics?Pistols can still be stolen today from some dealers,asthey do stock them.Only difference is that they are no longer target shooting equipment,for shooters.None have been,from what I can see.
@MarineAqua45 I can answer your last question. As of last year the number of section 5 prohibit handguns excluding police and military weapon used in criminal acts was zero. Yet the number of handgun related offences and injuries are both great then pre prohibition. Or in short the ban failed to make the UK a safer place.
@RideFreeee My thoughts exactly.I only know of one incident where legal guns were stolen& that was in 1990 from Gentrys gun shop in Welling Kent,where they stole pistols.But Bexleyheath CID&SO19 recovered the guns.Done by bankrobbers,that was,to be used in a bank robbery,from what I read.They held up the shop with sawed-offs.
@mufc4527 Have a look again but include all handgun assault including attempted murder. The crime rate has actually increases significantly its just due to a number of things no least a greatly improved medical facilities are resulting in more people surviving. But the actual handgun crime and assault rates have both rocketed since the prohibition of handguns.
send me a link, the assault rate? what does that have to do with gun control? and even if gun crime has gone up it can be put down to a number of things, bigger population, the majority of gun crime being air weapons ect...
@mufc4527 How can the rate of people actually being injured by handguns in the UK have no relation to handgun laws??? As for the numbers you asked for people being injured or killed with handguns in 2008 it was 521 in 2009 it was 535. This is as per the home office number. This is not a decrease. These numbers are actually higher then pre ban number.
and whats your source for this? only 39 people in the entire country got murder through getting shot in 2009 and that includes shotguns which would have been at least 5, so i find it hard to believe handgun crime is up yet the murder rate is down, unless you can prove it?
@mufc4527 I know excluding airguns the number of firearm offences jumped from 4902in 1997 to 8067 in 2009. With the number of people actually being by firearms ecluding airguns jumped from only 778 in 1997 to a massive 1919 people in 2009. This is why most people say the tighter gun laws in the UK failed to make it a safer place.
@mufc4527 I've read about this in shooting magazines.Besides I was old enough to remember that this country was alot safer from gun crime,years ago,then it is now.Ask your mum and dad howe safe Manchester was in the 60s&70s to what it is now.Eastern Europeans smuggle in guns,as their mafia was basically the Soviet-block secret police&so they sell these guns onto Jamacians etc.Ive read where these guns come from.There is a very weak link between legal guns used in gun crime,except the oddshotgun
"Besides I was old enough to remember that this country was alot safer from gun crime"
lol let me guess it was also warmer and more sunny when gun's were available, you remember the past's good things and not the bad, of course it seemed safer but it wasn't.
@mufc4527 By the way SO19 wasn't formed until 1991,as the Met never saw a need for it,as gun crime waslow.I know what ive read by people who tell the truth as opposed to some left-wing garbage tabloid,that stated otherwise..I should know as I was in primary school in the year you were born.The first incident of a fully-automatic weapon being used in Britain was used by bunch of armed crooks in Blackfen Bexley,in 1995.Those weapons never came from legal sources.i know what I can remember of 91
@mufc4527 Why because gun crime increased due to drug crime,thats why.Guns that were used came out of Bosnia& the USA.Yardies probably.No criminal to my knowledge has used a rifle with a telescopic sight(which are still legal by the way:-)in any crimes,nor did they use lever-action guns also.You seem to forget something:Drug trafficking was more mainstream in the 90s,than in the 1980s,in which armed bank robberies were the norm.Most blaggers converted over to drug importing&heavier weapons.
@mufc4527 Britain years ago had less gun crime than now.In the 1950s there were 4 armed raids a year,by the police,in London,just 4.No one said gun crime was high then,as it wasn't at all.Doors could be left open,without fear.Try that nowdays.No special tactical units,at all,just Bobbies&CID men.Anti-gun people,possibly like yourself,have one agenda&one agenda only:using every excuse to disarm us legitimate folk of our pastime.Why don't you ask the BASC for your info?
@MrSoprano0125 "Would you dare rob me if you pulled a knife at me and I pull a gun at you?"
Obviously not - but if I were a criminal looking to mug you, and I thought there was even a chance that you might be carrying a gun then I'd get a bigger gun and I'd shoot you without warning so you didn't have a chance to shoot back at me. I'd get your wallet off your cooling dead body, and I'd also get your gun to add to my collection.
@mandolinic and how does that prove that gun control stops YOU from obtaining a bigger gun and shooting me dead? Whenever guns are legal or not, guns can be obtained by get this...THE BLACK FUCKING MARKET!.....
And also if you were looking to buy a bigger gun then me from a gun shop, then you as a criminal wouldn't LEGALLY (The key word) be able to buy a firearm. So where do you go from this point on? Oh yeah that's right...
@MrSoprano0125 Of course if I were a criminal I'd get my first gun on black market. But that doesn't address the point that if you (as a law abiding citizen) are carrying a gun then my best strategy as a criminal is to simply shoot you without any warning so you don't have a chance to retaliate or protect yourself. Even if you're not carrying a gun, my best strategy is to shoot you first just in case you've got a weapon.
@mandolinic so your strategy is to just shoot me? In a street where loads of people can hear your gunshot....people seeing you witnessing MY murder. Witnesses giving out descriptions of you, being hunted down like a dog. Yup! the best strategy.
And do you think you'll be able to live with blood on your hands just for a measely wallet and my gun? Sounds to me like you are a cold blooded bastard....
@mandolinic Criminals only pick on unarmed people. Your motivation for murdering me is to get my gun. Let me tell you that it wouldn't be easy and wouldn't be like a computer game like Call of Duty or Timesplitters. Your motivation seems stupid and gives out any wonder why criminals would rather rob unarmed people for money to buy guns in the black market then to try and kill someone for their gun.
You seem like a worth candidate for America's Dumbest Criminals......
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 The more gun control and the fewer good people that have guns the more a criminal wants one. It gives them more power. If everyone has a gun, the criminal is on equal grounds with potential vics. In that case a criminal will resort to theft by stealth(gun is of marginal benefit)
If nobody has a gun the criminal is on basically equal ground so they go after women,elderly
If the criminal & nobody elsa is armed it gives the criminal great power(anyone is potential target)
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 I am not for criminals having guns legally, they gave up that right with their crime, but if it was legal it wouldn't really make any diff in crime rates.
i would like the anti-gun lobby in here to listen to the 911 recording made by terrified women in the USA who were calling for help when stalkers and rapists were breaking into their homes. The police were too far away to get to the scene, but all the women in question are all alive today because they had access to a gun and were able to put a bullet in their attackers. So what would you rather have? A woman raped, beaten, then strangled with her own panties, or a dead criminal?
And I would like the pro-gun lobby to listen to the families of THOUSANDS of victims who have died from guns. People who could well be ALIVE today if stricter gun laws were in place.
Laws that would have stopped a 6 year old accidently picking up a gun and shooting several people
Your attempt at gaining some sort of moral highground is flawed because by opposing gun control, you believe anyone should have a gun.
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - When you state "thousands of people," are you referring only to the UK? How about the thousands of people killed by knife crime, or by drunk drivers, or by other means. Wjy single out guns?
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 So MOST responsible gun owners should have thier guns taken away because of SOME irresponsible gun owners who don't keep guns safely locked away? So ALL responsible gun owners should suffer because of fucktards like you who blames the gun rather than the person firing it or owning it?.......
Since 1996, gun crime has increased overall in the UK by 92%. Now we have large areas in London, Manchester, Glasgow & Liverpool controlled by gangs armed with machine guns, controling the drugs trade. Teenagers packing illegal handguns battle it out over “respect” shootings. And coppers still walk around unarmed while the rest of the country hide behind locked doors, barred windows and burglar alarms after dark, controlled by fear and intimidated by criminals.
Ten years after Blair's "total ban" on handguns, there were an estimated four million illegal guns circulating in the UK in 2006. Criminals can get easy access to Mac-10 sub-machine guns and handguns Going back seven years, 440 people were seriously wounded by firearms in 2003-04, up five per cent from 2002. In the first six months of 2009, the number of shootings in London had almost doubled from 123 to 236 compared with the same period in 2008, a rise of 91.8%.
Secondly, No one person could stop Derrick Bird. Not the police, not the public. Why? Because they were unarmed. Nobody had a gun or access to one that could be used to stop this slaughter. He went on a killing spree for 35 miles before he walked into a secluded area and topped himself. Bird was even in plain sight of two police officers who were scooting people out of the way and shouting at others to “take cover.” They could not stop him. Their didn't have firearms.
Bullshit. The whole argument about being armed leading to security is a lot of crap. The US has extremely soft gun laws with many households holding guns; that doesn't stop thousands of innocent people being murdered there every year!
The same logic could be applied to every spree killer in countries with soft gun laws; you say having tough gun laws doesn't lead to security. I say having soft gun laws is a recipe for more gun murders; more guns + more gun murders. thats obvious!
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - More cars on the road means more drunk drivers, more car thefts and more joy riders runninmg down innocent people. More knives means more knife crime by people who carry them, more bridges mean more places for people to jump off , more gas stoves mean more opportunity to gas yourself. Looser drinking laws mean more chance to die from alcoholism. Lets just force everybody to stay at home with a ball & chain around their ankles, right?
An armed citizenry is a deterrant against this kind of slaughter. Remember Hungerford (16 people shot dead, including an unarmed copper), Dunblane (16 children shot dead, including a teacher), and now Cumbria? I would argue that if any of the victims in these horrors had access to a gun and were trained to use it, the nutters that committed these atrocities would have been stopped in their tracks a lot sooner.
So would somebody from Great Britain please inform me on exactly what the gun laws are there. I hear many different answers. Are all guns illegal? Is it possible to get a license to own one? Can you carry one on you going about your usual routine? I have no idea and would appreciate someone who knows about this informing me on the specifics. Thank you.
@tubevideoguy762 You can own shotguns in the UK but regulation are extremely tight. You have to have a good justification to own one. Handguns are illegal in the UK on the whole apart from air pistols, BB guns etc
Oh alright so if you're lucky you maybe allowed to own a shotgun. I heard that shotguns are limited to a 2+1 capacity in the U.K. is there truth to that or could I own a 12+1 saiga 12 gauge? All handguns are illegal but what rifles? Can you own an AR-15 or SKS? I haven't talked to many people from the U.K.
@tubevideoguy762 you can own double barreled shotguns and you can only own a shotgun that carries 3 rounds. And no you cannot own military turned civilian rifles or automatic rifles. You can own a bolt action rifle but again only if it carries 3 rounds but you cannot own a semi or full auto rifle....
Christopher Walken just wanted more cow bell...
I don't think we need legalised firearms, but legalised self-defense (including tazers, pepperspray, etc). Shooters miss.... At worst, a tazer will miss the target but not kill someone else. Okay, there's a slim chance of death, but it happens. I do agree though, criminalising guns only affects honest citizens, not the criminals. We need better self defense opportunities. The rampagers are just bad examples of society, not good examples of bans.
SillyEddyPhotography 2 weeks ago
if something is illegal criminals will want it more so i think that if guns were allowed they would have no reason to want one so much
madgamer099 1 month ago
wots the movie at the start please,ive seen that but cant name it thanks
callofthedave 2 months ago
@callofthedave it's a bond movie called "A View To A Kill" Starring Roger Moore and Christopher Walken
MrSoprano0125 2 months ago
I asked for the statistics for gun crime from 1969 to 2009 from the Home Office, which they provided for me. The figures show a massive increase in firearms offences in the last 40 years. There were 717 offences with guns recorded by police in 1969. By 2009, that figure had increased to 9,865 crimes.
That's an increase of more than 1,270 percent in just 40 years. For a copy of the FOI request letter that I received from the Home Office, send me a message with your email address.
gentlegee1976 4 months ago
gun control and registration is what hitler did before he killed the jews. took their guns so they couldnt resist, then killed 6,000,000 of them.
Grunt922 5 months ago
I always tell people to give me 1 example where gun laws have reduced violent crime. They come back with look at the UK vs the US or just give another stat from somewhere or show a place where gun deaths went down but overall deaths didn't. This just shows me that they have a fear of guns & don't understand the scientific method. Comparing US & UK is like saying Florida has more guns & grows more oranges than NYC. Then coming to the conclusion that guns cause oranges to grow. It's just not valid
shananagans5 5 months ago
Revolvers and automatic weapons are very rare in the UK.If law abiding citezens were allowed hand guns it would then make it very easy for criminals to get hold of them too and before you know it we would have a MAJOR gun problem like the US
170adamb 6 months ago
There were 39 gun deaths in the U.K. last year and 35,000 in the U.S. so of course gun control works. The guy in this video is talking crap about gun deaths going up - they have gone down despite an overall rise in crime. And Derick Bird owned a LEGAL shotgun. He also states that is people owned guns they could have stopped him. I challenge him to name one instance where this happened prior to the gun ban. We have never had a schools shooting in England - keep it that way.
WillShakespeare2007 7 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 check out YT user TheArmedCitizen and you'll see many examples on how gun deter and stopped crime.....
MrSoprano0125 7 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 - I did not say that an armed person had NEVER stopped a crime anywhere in the world I gave specific statistics and a rebuttal to the points raised in the video regarding the U.K. and gun control.
WillShakespeare2007 7 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 how is having tight gun control a good thing? we should make them less strict and allow law abiding citizens to have certain guns for self defense. i personally dont think having guns in public is a good thing at all, people shouldnt be able to carry guns in the street.
but in my home i believe i have the right to protect my partner, my daughter and I.
this guy personally is speaking certain truths but also much shit.
and we have had school shootings in uk Dumblaine!
crazybraintv 6 months ago
@crazybraintv - Firstly I said in England NOT in the UK but actually we have not had a school or college shooting since the hand gun ban. When have you had to protect your family with a gun? Seriously? The reality is that if people could get guns legally the streets would be awash with them and we end up like America. I just gave the stats - U.S. 35,000 guns deaths each year - U.K. 40 p/a. Do you want annual gun mass shootings like the U.S.? Gun control is clearly working.
WillShakespeare2007 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 well for your information scotland operates the same laws as england FACT, and yes we have had a school shooting since handgun and replica ban and it was in london he shot a teacher in the face. when have i needed to have a gun to protect my family? at the moment never, but ask my neighbours that same question and they will tell you 3 days ago when they where burgled and assulted!
also read my post clearly and you will see that i dont condone guns on the streets like USA
crazybraintv 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 and their carry conceal policies but i support non lethal weapons like pepper spray, tasers and batons to protect ones self from low life, when have i needed one of these before a few years ago when i was robbed! america has a population 10 times the size of the uk so its expected and besides where did you get your numbers from? probably a government website where stats and figures are toyed with a bit to make the country look better.
crazybraintv 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 guns for home defence is a must, reasonable force is a joke in the home and castle law should be reinstated. every englishmans home is his castle. so self defence should be a good enough reason to own one.
i hope you never need to protect yourself or your family, because if you ever did have to they would be screwed because your are so left wing and timid it scares me people can be so brainwashed.
also handguns should be allowed, gun crime on the hole has gone up since it
crazybraintv 6 months ago
@crazybraintv - I have protected my family but unlike you I'm not a coward that wants everyone else at risk so I can sit at home with a gun.
The facts are that guns kill 1000's for each 1 they protect. U.S. = 35,000 shot dead p/a! These are not people protecting themselves and their homes, these are criminals using guns against them. Did legal guns protect the people in Norway? Columbine? Virginia Tech? No legal guns were used to kill them.
You might want that in England - I don't.
WillShakespeare2007 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 so EVERYONE who owns a gun is a gun is a coward, a potential maniac and a time bomb? Now you are painting a very wide brush and generalizing all legal gun owners!
First off, Norway has strict gun laws like we do, Columbine and Virginia Tech occured in a place called gun free zones where guns were prohibited in campus grounds but did not stop the two in Columbine nor Chung sui hui.
And finally, you're blaming guns as a cause of death! Not the people that wield them!
MrSoprano0125 6 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 - I called YOU a coward as you're too much of a wimp to defend your family without putting everyone else's family at risk by arming the entire population.
Check your facts. Norway guns were legally purchased, he became a member of a gun club for this purpose AFTER failing to find illegal guns. The Columbine guns and ammo were purchased legally for them by a girlfriend. V.T. guns came from a shop.
We have 40 gun deaths a year! Why? Gun prohibition. It clearly works.
WillShakespeare2007 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 no one in Oslo was armed to stop Anders Behring Breivik from killing 90 people and the police arrived too late. No one on campus was armed to stop Hui or Columbine due to strict regulations on gun on campus, no one was armed to stop derrick bird and deaths was only prevented coz he killed himself and police couldn't locate him in the Cumbria countryside....
Yeah....gun prohibition......it clearly works........
MrSoprano0125 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 /watch?v=_NJQK2BscIg <- A complete coward according to you
/watch?v=DuhKCiY-lu0&feature=related <--- yeah I like to see you try and defend yourself and your family from these 4 with just your fists.
And you call them cowards for using firearms for self defense espacially someone who is less fortunate then you as able to defend yourself from an armed criminal?
MrSoprano0125 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 It's fine if you don't want to use a firearm and no one is forcing you to but don't sit on your pacifist throne calling law abiding gun owners cowards. Some are incapable of defending themselves without guns and you are just being unfair to those incapable of defending themselves......
MrSoprano0125 6 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 - So I'm a "pacifist" am I because I don't want pathetic illiterate little morons like you running around armed with pistols. Look at you! You are now claiming some are "incapable of defending themselves without guns" as you have lost every intelligent retort. So just because wheel chair users and people like you cannot protect yourself or satisfy your wife real men should have wonder if you will pull out out a gat. Man up! You smell of fear and impotence.
WillShakespeare2007 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 "You are now claiming some are "incapable of defending themselves without guns" as you have lost every intelligent retort"
Hmmm and I suppose generalizing and calling all legal gun owners cowards is an intelligent retort.....
"So I'm a pacifist am I because I don't want pathetic illiterate little morons like you running around armed with pistols."
Funny you call me illiterate since you put the word 'out' twice in a sentence.....ironic yet hypocritical....
MrSoprano0125 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 "So just because wheel chair users and people like you cannot protect yourself or satisfy your wife real men should have wonder if you will pull out out a gat. Man up! You smell of fear and impotence."
Didn't you see the video links I put in? About a woman being raped and defending herself and a guy being outnumbered by 4 guys with AKs? That's okay! I don't mind having illiterate little morons like you running around with your fists getting shot down by home invaders.....
MrSoprano0125 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 Firstly fear he would have no fear. Guns keep people from living in fear. "A well armed society is a respectful society."
Second, gun control will not work in the US, and ESPECIALLY not in the South here in TX. You try to do that, and you will have not only an army of armed people marching against the government to shut it down, but also the majority of the military will not oppose them, because they troops will do what they know is right, because the majority are Southern!
revan7666 6 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 You want women to just be at the mercy of any man that might want to hurt them? Norway: Very strict gun laws, nobody had a legal gun to stop him. Columbine: Gun free zone. Virginia Tech: Gun free zone. US vs UK? When did it become valid to compare one country to another? Wouldn't it be better to look at the same area before & after gun laws? Chicago, NYC, Washington DC. Deaths went up after gun laws. What happened in the UK after gun laws? Oh yea, violent deaths went up.
shananagans5 5 months ago
@shananagans5 - Ok lots of corrections.
1. There is no evidence guns reduce crime and vast amounts of evidence they increase it.
2. Guns used in Norway were legal and he joined a gun club to buy them.
3. Virginia Tech and Columbine are cases of legally bought guns being used to slaughter people. We have never had a school shooting in England.
4. I proved America has the highest gun crime as it has the most guns. The UK has one of the lowest.
5. Violent deaths did not "go up" this is a lie!
WillShakespeare2007 5 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 Both Columbine & Virginia Tech the guns were bought illegally. Columbine: The guns were illegally bought for underage kids. V Tech: Cho had a mental HX that disqualified him from owning a gun. Norway: It is highly regulated. Did that prevent it? What if guns were easier to get there? Maybe someone could have stopped him. It's not valid to compare one place to another. You must look at the same place before & after gun laws. Show me1 valid study showing gun laws reduce deaths
shananagans5 5 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 Harvard Journal of law & Public Policy: Article; Would Banning Guns Reduce Murder & Suicide is a good general review of the literature for several countries. It shows gun laws have no ability to reduce violent deaths and in some areas violent deaths went up and violent crime not resulting in death went up drastically. Kohen & Felson Suitable Target Theory on Crime illustrates why this is the case. Now, give me just 1 valid study illustrating gun laws reducing violent death
shananagans5 5 months ago
@shananagans5 - I have not read this study and I'm certainly not going to do it for your benefit. As every "fact" you stated above was simply lies I find it hard to believe you are suddenly telling the truth on this issue.
Why not take a moment to look at the murder rates in every nation on earth. The nations with easy access to guns are the ones with the highest murder rates. Why do you think the U.S. murder rate is so high? Are you all just psychos? Or could it be all the guns?
WillShakespeare2007 5 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 That's typical liberal thinking. Rejecting real evidence in favor of looking for scraps that allow you to maintain a flawed belief. The subject of crime rates& crime patterns is more complex than guns are bad or looking only at gun deaths. Is someone less dead if they jump off a building? It is not valid to compare one place to another. You can't draw a conclusion until you look at the same area before & after gun laws. Did laws reduce index crime in the UK? DC? NYC?Chicago?
shananagans5 5 months ago
@WillShakespeare2007 You look foolish arguing against basic scientific method. By your argument you could make a case that oranges cause crime. Florida has far more oranges than the UK, there is also more crime in Fla. It must be the oranges. There is virtually no crime in the antarctic and there isn't a single orange tree. Does that work? Of course it doesn't. You must isolate a variable and test it before you can say anything. Just because you think something is correlated doesn't make it so.
shananagans5 5 months ago
@shananagans5
why is there mass murderers who go on killing spree's with guns in the UK every 15years? and in the US it happens every month?
JoshRobertson142 5 months ago
@JoshRobertson142 There were fewer spree or rampage shooting in the UK than in the US before the UK gun bans. The US simply has far more very violent criminals and they use the most effective thing they can get. On overall index crime the UK did lower the #of gun deaths after the ban for a while but the overall murder rate didn't fall. It actually went up a bit. That is the exact pattern change seen in US cities with gun bans. That trend is also reversing with relaxing laws.
shananagans5 5 months ago
@shananagans5
which guns ban? to my knowledge guns have always been hard to obtain in the UK since the 20's, it's not about murder rate as far as i'm considered guns or not people will always have motivation to kill, and guns make up such a small % of UK murders you can't say lack of guns caused a change in it, the UK has a knife crime problem, i'd rather them stab each other than shoot each other, lot harder to miss with a knife don't you think?
JoshRobertson142 5 months ago
@JoshRobertson142 In 97 the UK passed extensive gun laws. It was the most extensive & sudden ban, or close to, in a developed country in modern times. That is why it drew so much attention from the criminology profession. I never said it lowered the murder rate, I said it lowered gun deaths for a few yrs but Murder rates remained fairly stable (slightly ^) Some stats show drastic increases but that is due to changes in the way index crime was defined & logged rather than actual increases.
shananagans5 5 months ago
@shananagans5
even before 97 you couldn't go out and buy a gun. "defend themselves & lowers overall deaths a bit" what evidence is there to say it lowers murders? would you not agree though legalizing guns gives the gangs and people who snap more opportunity to get there hands on them?
JoshRobertson142 5 months ago
@JoshRobertson142 True, before 97 there were some restrictions but fairly easy to get one if you wanted. I am going off the general body of criminology literature meaning you have to kind of average out many studies. Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy has a good review of literature in an article called Would Banning Guns Reduce Murder and Suicide. It is a fair review of several countries. Easy access to guns does allow criminals easier access but it is more than offset by defensive gun use
shananagans5 5 months ago
@JoshRobertson142 If you are really interested in this subject I would say read up on Kohen & Felson Suitable Target Theory on Crime. This will explain why there are drastic changes in crime patterns with strong gun control.
I would also recommend going to any school that has a criminology department and looking through the studies on gun control & crime rates. Go to the actual criminology journals & read studies first hand & not just looking at a stat here & there that really mean nothing
shananagans5 5 months ago
@shananagans5
In all honesty i don't think some American written books will prove anything, maybe in America where people have always owned guns it could stop crime, but here in Britain even in the 1920's when you could just go out and buy a gun whenever gun ownership was still very low, even if we made guns legal again i don't see millions of people going out to buy them. i guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.thanks anyway.
JoshRobertson142 5 months ago
@JoshRobertson142 Books?? No, they're scientific journals, from all over the world. It is not opinion. You seem to be missing the entire point. Major public policies should be set based on knowledge & not false beliefs or emotion. The scientific evidence shows very slight decreases in murder when there are guns in a society but The real ? is does a society want to live with crime typical of areas with few guns or many because it's the patterns that change drastically & effect people every day.
shananagans5 5 months ago
@JoshRobertson142 Personally, I think people should be allowed to defend themselves even with a gun if needed. The gun laws have very little effect on overall index crime but it does effect crime patterns. If criminals know their potential victim isn't armed there is no fear & little risk in them going after a woman or elderly person & the stats illustrate this. With guns you get a few accidental vics but I must go with what allows ALL people to defend themselves & lowers overall deaths a bit
shananagans5 5 months ago
@JoshRobertson142 When you wade through the BS of playing with numbers changes in rates really are fairly small. The pattern changes are more drastic & both sides try to twist this to support their side but fact is, guns or lack of has a small effect. I have studied this for yrs and the big thing I see is areas with lots of guns have far fewer murders of non-participating strangers. Basically crims are scared if they don't know if someone's armed. Kohen&Felson Suitable Target explains this well
shananagans5 5 months ago
@JoshRobertson142 Cont 500 characters sucks Most violent crime is felon on felon but with more guns in a society this effect increases meaning the % of law abiding vics decreases. Better to let the criminals kill each other than good, law abiding people. It is not understood why this happens but it is an established, pronounced pattern. In areas with high gun ownership it's very rare for a non felon to be murdered. Areas with few guns you can have 15 or 20% of victims that are truly innocent
shananagans5 5 months ago
the numbers say about 1 every hour. 4NRA
gunsoutdoorsshooting 7 months ago
in the uk can I get a 15 ft pound air rifle no papers to fill out or what ever.
gunsoutdoorsshooting 7 months ago
If laxer gun laws reduce homicide, why is the US homicide rate 2 or 3 times higher than the UK homicide rate?
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic population level differs from the US and the UK....
Seeing as though the UK is a tiny small island with a small population and the US is a very big country with 50 states each consists of million upon millions of Americans, OF COURSE Homicide rates are going to be higher than homicide rates in the UK......
"Is your head up your ass for the warmth?"
Burt Gummer
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 Homicide rates are normally expressed as a number per 100,000 population, which corrects for differences in population size. After making this correction, the UK homicide rate is lower than the US rate by a factor of 2 or 3. Why?
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic *facepalm*
Why are you asking the same question? And does it really make a difference if you expressed them per 100,000? You';re still going to get the same conclusion that they differ because of population level. Want to ask the same question again? I'll give you the same answer.....*sheesh!*
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 The US's population density is 87 per square mile, the UK's is 660 people per sqare mile. So we're far more densely packed than they are ... so why is our murder rate per hundred thousand LOWER than theirs?
Now answer the question, and try to do it without resorting to insulting language.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic The WHOLE of the US has 87 people per square mile? So I'm guessing you've never taken cities and towns into account where there is probably in an average US city 200,000 or more people per square block where a high rate of homicides can occur and not in a rural country area.
You're asking about density when you've never taken towns and cities into account and generalising every square mile of US to having 87 people per square mile. *facepalm*
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@mandolinic And as for the UK density of 660 people per square mile, the country is well rather smaller then the US.
But again. Never have you have taken cities and towns into account but we have less cities then the US so homicides rates are bound to be lower then the US due to what?
Less cities = less population
Smaller Country = Less Population
Less population = Lower Homicide rates
Oh wait!
The answer is POPULATION LEVELS!
Care to ask the same dumb question again
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@mandolinic also ever been to glasgow. It's the Europe's capital of homicide rates.....
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 "Is your head up your ass for the warmth?"
Your job is to try to persuade me that your position is correct, just as you've got to persuade law makers, the press and the general public. Do you think that immediately insulting anyone who asks a legitimate question or two is going to help persuade people that you're right? You'll get a damn site harder questions than this is you ever start a political campaign so get used to it now and stop using insults.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic I see that you are beyond persuading since you are trying to ask idiotic questions and asking them again. If you are acting like a stupid moron, expect to be insulted.....
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 So, when you start your campaign to change the gun laws, and you're interviewed by Jeremy Paxman, and he keeps pressing you to answer a question that you can't answer, you're going to tell him he's stupid, and his head is up his ass - Wow! That's going to convert the general public.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic if I answered a question already in which I have answered and he keeps pressing when the answer has already been told, then of course he is going to look stupid and moronic and the general public would see that he is just being a stupid moron asking the same question expecting a different answer.....
But i'm sure Paxman has a reason to repeat the same questions over and over because when he asks them, most people tend to deteer away from giving an answer
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 But you haven't answered the question. The UK is eight times more densely packed with people than the US, but our murder rate (per 100,000) is lower. Why?
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic yet again!
Population levels...
The UK is the same size of a typical US state. The UK as a whole is probably the same size as the state of Maine! Again! Asking the same question, we will come to a conclusion yet again that it is due to population levels.
It's obvious that you want to go around in circles like a dog chasing it's tail.......
So yank your head out of your ass and stop being such a moron.....
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 "So yank your head out of your ass and stop being such a moron....."
Just when you were doing so well. You were building a plausible argument but then you lost it and resorted to insults.
The point here isn't my whether or not my questions are stupid - it's YOUR response to those questions. Any Brit reading this exchange will conclude that you (and by extension all your supporters) can't control their tempers and therefore aren't fit to carry guns. Sorry, you lose.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic ok....so lets dismiss ours arguments because I hurt your feelings with insults and you saying that we are psychopathic maniacs who can't control our tempers and say we arn't responsible enough to use guns because idiots like you asking the same question over and over again.
Typical anti-gun tactics....
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 The bottom line. In the US the average citizen has a higher chance of being murdered than in the UK. The average New Orleans resident has a higher chance chance of being murdered than the average New Yorker. In both comparisons, places with laxer gun control laws have the higher murder rates. All comparisons are corrected for population size differences.
It therefore follows that relaxing UK gun law will lead to an increase in the UK murder rate.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic And ALL homicides commited in the US are gun related?.............
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 That is a smart question. About 2/3 of all murders in the US used firearms; the remainder are the usual mix of stabbing, blunt instruments, arson, etc.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic where have you been getting your sources?
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 Another smart question. I use the web to search for official documents, such as national crime surveys. There isn't room in YT postings to list sources. Each figure I've posted today I've looked up afresh rather than relying on my memory.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic 1/3
gunsoutdoorsshooting 7 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 "Typical anti-gun tactics...."
If you ever start a national campaign you'll hear far worse than anything I've said ;-)
You paint me as being anti-gun. Not so, I'm anti-murder. I'm open to persuasion that relaxing the gun laws will lower the murder rate, but I'll only be persuaded by using carefully argued statistics and logic, not insults and extracts from Bond movies.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 BTW, just to torpedo your silly little hypothesis that higher populations lead to higher murder rates:
New Orleans pop 336,425 murder rate 0.52 per 100,000.
New York pop 8,400,907 murder rate 0.06 per 100,000.
So you're 8 times safer in New York than New Orleans, yet NY's population is 24 times higher. In fact, NY is the US's most populated city and it has one of the lowest murder rates.
You lose again. Sorry.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic You're comparing cities rates rather then country rates!
It doesn't change the matter of the fact that a high population as a whole in a COUNTRY is the reason why homicide rates are higher in the US then in the UK.......
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 I'm not sure you've really got the hang of murder rates per 100,000. I agree that there will almost certainly be a higher absolute number of murders per year in a country with a higher population, but this higher population is taken into account by expressing murder rates as a number per 100,000 of the population. So the US STILL has a higher rate of murders than the UK even after correcting for the different population sizes. And you've yet to explain why that is.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic "I agree that there will almost certainly be a higher absolute number of murders per year in a country with a higher population."
Yet.....
"BTW, just to torpedo your silly little hypothesis that higher populations lead to higher murder rates"
And yet again asking the same question, you've yet to see my simple explaination and to try and complicate thing......
Keep it simple stupid.....
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 It's clear to me now that you don't understand the difference between the absolute number of murders and the murder rate per 100,000, nor why it's the murder rate per 100,000 rather than the absolute number of murders which is the important figure.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic if anything, you've torpedoed yourself. I don't think you're responsible enough to handle torpedos!
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
Hey, lets get the fact right. This person shot people. That is what the gun controller will say. Here is the facts. This person shot UNARMED people. This is the fact that the gun controllers don't want reported. Not people being shot but UNARMED people beiing shot. Ask this question, did the person that was shot ARMED? If you say NO, the gun control has totally failed. For every person that is UNARMED that is shot by a criminal with a gun, gun control has totally failed.
tock101 9 months ago
Hell, you can make a gun in a machine shop!
rehwr 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
lol the fact that is... guns will be illegal eventually...
theres nothing you can do about it -.-
SLAMTproductions 9 months ago
How many more times do we have to say it?Legitimate handguns Pre-1996 were not used in many crimes,except for the odd few,just like thesedays the odd idiot blasts someone with a shotgun.Things now&then you read about.Gun crime increased because of: changes in our societies,acceptance of gangsta rap,gangsta rappers glorfying guns&finally some bastards who were ex-armed forces,worked out how to convert blank firing pistols,along with the Brock Air-catridge pistols&made money out of their miseries.
MarineAqua45 9 months ago
@MarineAqua45 This is what the anti gun mob appear not to understand. Just look at illegal drugs for a good comparison. Any city, town and even most villages in the UK illegal drugs are readily available. Same applies to illegal firearms. Legal guns where never the problem. Even then with all these illegal guns there still only responsible for thousandths of a percent of deaths in the UK. So even the illegal guns are a relatively minor problem here in the UK.
RideFreeee 9 months ago
The anti-gun mob,I think work on the basis of 'If I don't like it,I want to ban it',much in the same way as the Australians have banned guns with an assault-weapon appearence.I caught out an anti-gun activist on Youtube,when I told him that gun crime was less common in the 80s,than today&that machine guns weren't used&I told him to think back to his childhood& the reply was like this:"What Ive learnt in the 80s was the English language,that you seemed to have neglected.Talk about being dickhead.
MarineAqua45 9 months ago
you can use the 'criminalization of guns wont stop criminals from finding guns' argument all you want. People I knew were killed by legal weapons in an area that hasn't had any major gun crime in the past. Don't expect us to believe that arming more people is a good idea. I'd rather a criminal be caught in the process of trying to obtain an illegal firearm than have it just handed to them.
LastKissGoodbye 11 months ago
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@LastKissGoodbye
"People I knew were killed by legal weapons in an area that hasn't had any major gun crime in the past".
Where was this? Please eleborate.
MSM4U2POM 10 months ago
Our `government ` never ceases to infuriate me!
As a legitimate firearm user, charities are frequently insulting, demonising me as a lunatic, and the government taxes and restricts weapons with ridiculous reasons!
EvilLamas 1 year ago
Keep in mind that the police in Britain do not, themselves, carry guns.
Good luck stopping a madman with an automatic weapon with your little billy club, Bobby!
RedwoodTheElf 1 year ago
The ony way "gun control" could work is if someone gets their hands on a TARDIS, goes back in time to ancient China, and kills the guy who invented Gunpowder.
Barring that, we must consider that since the Gunpowder Genie is out of the bottle, and anyone who wants a firearm can get one, gun laws or no.
It's not surprising that the very DAY that a politician (who is against gun control, by the way) gets shot in the US, the PC crackpots start clamoring and beating the Gun Control drum!
RedwoodTheElf 1 year ago
Criminals still have LOTS of guns, innocent people can't evne carry a smalll knife anymore! Ridiculous!!
djeq721 1 year ago
it takes the cops a 15 minutes to 1 hour to show up to a crime, unless your a bank or some one of importance, while the crooks are rapping your wife killing your grandmom, hauling off with your kids and your property just remember i wont wait,, im a gun owner,, i will defend my family,,
guppyelf 1 year ago
it is so wrong that all rsponsible people should be banned from having guns just because a few people have gone on rampages, if criminals want guns they will get them of the streets anyway. The government in this country should loosen gun laws slightly so that all law abiding citizens can enjoy shooting firearms.
oliguitarboy95 1 year ago
take this off the net! my best freind was shot i knew birdie he was a freind of mine you dont know much about this please remove this
nipplebrady1988 1 year ago
New York Post (Nov 2010)
'Where do NYC gangs get their guns?'
Police Commisioner Raymond Kelly; 'Half of them were stolen, and half were, we believe, purchased at gun shows in North Carolina'
So yes, we can see making guns freely available is fantastic idea!
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - Those cities and states that allow law abiding citizens to carry firearms for self-defence have a far lower number of gun-related crime. Why risk robbing a 7/11 at 2.00am if the clerk can put a bullet in you? A gun makes a 90lb woman, a senior citizen, a disabled person, equal with a 200lb mugger. Its all down to individual responsibility, isn't it? You will always have the good guys and the bad guys. Why keep the good guys defencelesss against armed criminals?
bgibb101 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - We had an incident in Calgary where two gangsters walked into a restaurant and shot a rival gang mermber and an innocent young woman to death as they sat and had dinner. One customer tried to flee, but the gunmen caught up with him and shot him down in the carpark. The police took seven imuntes to get there. What if that third customer, or even any of the restaurant staff had a gun and were trained to use it?
bgibb101 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - In British Columbia, the owner of a jewelry store was able to retrieve his handgun from a safe and shoot back at two men who threatened his wife at gunpoint when attempting to rob the store. One of the robbers was paralyzed by a bullet in his spine while the other coward left his accomplice behind. The public overwhelmingly took the side of the store owner and the charges that were brought against him by the police for defending his own property (and spouse) were dropped.
bgibb101 1 year ago
If you oppose gun control, by definition you musty then believe anyone should own a gun... including dangerous criminals.
If you think dangerous criminals should be stopped from having weapons then whether you like it or not, you support a form of gun control.
Well lets just throwe them out shall we? Lets have a big free-for-all gun-athon!!!
Thats what you people want isn't it!
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - So, should the store owner had been charged, prosecuted, sent to prison, have lost his business taken away and made a criminal for the rest of his life? The two men who attempted to rob him would receive councelling, plea-bargained reduced sentencing, full social work support, minimum security imprisonment and generous government support upon their release. Makes me wonder who the criminals really are, the robbers or the system!
bgibb101 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 are you highly retarded? Criminals are gonna use guns gun control or no gun control. The solution is not eliminating gun crime but reducing gun crime and how you can counter gun crime.
Also take a look at places like Switzerland and Norway where they have the lowest gun crime in Europe and it is also where they don't have tight gun laws.
MrSoprano0125 1 year ago 7
@MrSoprano0125 Yes Switzerland is a great example as you know swiss people bring there assault rifles home with them when there at leave from the army, (so they can mobilizes a army quick) anyway this works the same as the Nuclear Weapon deterrent , if i know my neighbor has a gun, i ant gonna break in and try and rape his wife.
MANDELBROT27 10 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 the bad guys are the victims of there though
gunsoutdoorsshooting 7 months ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 If a person is a criminal, he should not be out on the street to begin with. I have no faith in your governments ability to keep a criminal on the street but disarmed so he can only launch insults instead of bullets. I do have confidence in my ability to stop any armed criminal so the police can take a report and haul off the body.
BernieEOD 1 year ago
A lot of gun supporters here are bringing up the issue of gun control apparently allowing criminals to commit crime.
It is gun supporters who seem to have no problem with ANYONE getting their hands on a gun- because hey, its their 'liberty'. By definition, if you are opposed to gun control, then you think criminals should have guns.
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - No-one is arguing that "everybody" should have a gun. No matter how much you ban something, whether its guns, alcohol, drugs, etc, there will always be a thriving black market to meet the demand. SENSIBLE gun control is needed. Tony Blair's macho "total ban" on handguns has led to a 92% increase in gun crime in the UK. Not even the UK Olympic shooting team are allowed to practise in mainland Britain. How insane is that?
bgibb101 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 no....if you are opposed to gun control then you think law abiding citizens should have guns to defend themselves against criminals with guns. Not wanting criminals to carry guns. You say you've grasped the fact that criminals gets guns gun control or no gun control but you don't actually see the actual fact that criminals would rather hold up an unarmed person than a person armed with a gun.
Would you dare rob me if you pulled a knife at me and I pull a gun at you?
MrSoprano0125 1 year ago 7
@MrSoprano0125
of course criminals are going to have guns, but if guns are legalized MORE criminals will have guns, and that could only be a bad thing.
mufc4527 10 months ago
@mufc4527 No mate,now thats not true,not by any stretch of the imagination.Gun crime escalated well after the 2 major gun bans,partly of immigration into the UK,by increased number of West Indians,Africans&now Eastern Europeans.The latter will smuggle in guns from Eastern Europe,which used to belong to their armies&police forces,under the old USSR,as these guns come from Soviet arms dumps.When it was legal to buy an AK in Britain,gun crime was non-existant&the same goes for pistols.The truth.
MarineAqua45 10 months ago
@MarineAqua45
prove it, gun murders have pretty much stayed the same/less since the gun ban
mufc4527 10 months ago
@mufc4527 I'll point you in the right direction:ask the BASC for your information&then ask them why they think gun crime had risen then.It did rise in the 1980s&peaked in 1993,but fell by 17% in 1995(A year in which pistols were still legal:-),Its obvious to me that you are anti-gun&that you will not accept any of my points.I will admit to you,some legal arms have been used,but only a tiny percentage of them,as most crooks wont go near them,as they are easily traced by the police,.
MarineAqua45 10 months ago
@MarineAqua45
in 97 (year of the hangun ban) there was 58 murders by guns
the last 3 years in the UK there has been 53murders, 40murders, and 39murders. there WAS a rise between 2001 - 2004 but that's well over now.
mufc4527 10 months ago
@mufc4527 channel4.com/news/london-gun-crime-figures-worryingly-high been watching the news? Take a look at London nowadays and now they want to waste more taxpayer's money on trying to reduce the number of illegal firearms on the streets. You'll see in the statistics that problems with gun crime has consisted and been rising up again. Thanks anti gun laws for protecting the shopkeeper and the five year old girl........
MrSoprano0125 10 months ago
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@MrSoprano0125
"you'll see in the statistics that problems with gun crime has consisted and been rising up again."
well the last 2years has had 39/40 murders, thats 18 less than in 1997 and we have a higher population today, so have you got any proof to back up your claim of "gun crime has consisted and been rising up again"
mufc4527 10 months ago
@mufc4527 Okay then,those (Probably Home Office:-) statistics seem accurate,as I remeber reading,something about them,but what percentage of those incidents came from legal guns?Guns that might have been stolen from gun dealers/wholesalers& or from private owners?Do you have those statistics?Pistols can still be stolen today from some dealers,asthey do stock them.Only difference is that they are no longer target shooting equipment,for shooters.None have been,from what I can see.
MarineAqua45 10 months ago
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@MarineAqua45
i'll add you as a friend and send you the links.
mufc4527 10 months ago
@MarineAqua45 I can answer your last question. As of last year the number of section 5 prohibit handguns excluding police and military weapon used in criminal acts was zero. Yet the number of handgun related offences and injuries are both great then pre prohibition. Or in short the ban failed to make the UK a safer place.
RideFreeee 10 months ago
@RideFreeee My thoughts exactly.I only know of one incident where legal guns were stolen& that was in 1990 from Gentrys gun shop in Welling Kent,where they stole pistols.But Bexleyheath CID&SO19 recovered the guns.Done by bankrobbers,that was,to be used in a bank robbery,from what I read.They held up the shop with sawed-offs.
MarineAqua45 9 months ago
@mufc4527 Have a look again but include all handgun assault including attempted murder. The crime rate has actually increases significantly its just due to a number of things no least a greatly improved medical facilities are resulting in more people surviving. But the actual handgun crime and assault rates have both rocketed since the prohibition of handguns.
RideFreeee 10 months ago
@RideFreeee
send me a link, the assault rate? what does that have to do with gun control? and even if gun crime has gone up it can be put down to a number of things, bigger population, the majority of gun crime being air weapons ect...
mufc4527 9 months ago
@mufc4527 How can the rate of people actually being injured by handguns in the UK have no relation to handgun laws??? As for the numbers you asked for people being injured or killed with handguns in 2008 it was 521 in 2009 it was 535. This is as per the home office number. This is not a decrease. These numbers are actually higher then pre ban number.
RideFreeee 9 months ago
@RideFreeee
well what was the numbers in 97?
mufc4527 9 months ago
@mufc4527 handgun assults for 1997 is 314 and in 1996 is 279
sleepyend 9 months ago 3
@sleepyend
and whats your source for this? only 39 people in the entire country got murder through getting shot in 2009 and that includes shotguns which would have been at least 5, so i find it hard to believe handgun crime is up yet the murder rate is down, unless you can prove it?
mufc4527 9 months ago
@mufc4527 the uk gov publish all of this. for 2009 there was 14241 firearms offences, 2454 assults with firearms of who 39 died.
sleepyend 9 months ago 3
@sleepyend
50% of gun crime for 2009/2010 was rather air weapons or imitation weapons, i'm looking for your 1997 figures.
mufc4527 9 months ago
@mufc4527 I know excluding airguns the number of firearm offences jumped from 4902in 1997 to 8067 in 2009. With the number of people actually being by firearms ecluding airguns jumped from only 778 in 1997 to a massive 1919 people in 2009. This is why most people say the tighter gun laws in the UK failed to make it a safer place.
sleepyend 9 months ago 3
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@MarineAqua45
prove it, gun murders have pretty much stayed the same/less since the gun ban
mufc4527 10 months ago
@MarineAqua45
can you prove any of this?
mufc4527 10 months ago
@mufc4527 I've read about this in shooting magazines.Besides I was old enough to remember that this country was alot safer from gun crime,years ago,then it is now.Ask your mum and dad howe safe Manchester was in the 60s&70s to what it is now.Eastern Europeans smuggle in guns,as their mafia was basically the Soviet-block secret police&so they sell these guns onto Jamacians etc.Ive read where these guns come from.There is a very weak link between legal guns used in gun crime,except the oddshotgun
MarineAqua45 10 months ago
@MarineAqua45
"Besides I was old enough to remember that this country was alot safer from gun crime"
lol let me guess it was also warmer and more sunny when gun's were available, you remember the past's good things and not the bad, of course it seemed safer but it wasn't.
mufc4527 10 months ago
@mufc4527 By the way SO19 wasn't formed until 1991,as the Met never saw a need for it,as gun crime waslow.I know what ive read by people who tell the truth as opposed to some left-wing garbage tabloid,that stated otherwise..I should know as I was in primary school in the year you were born.The first incident of a fully-automatic weapon being used in Britain was used by bunch of armed crooks in Blackfen Bexley,in 1995.Those weapons never came from legal sources.i know what I can remember of 91
MarineAqua45 10 months ago
@MarineAqua45
well please explain this, in 97 the year of the hand gun ban why was there more murders that year than the last two years?
mufc4527 10 months ago
@mufc4527 Why because gun crime increased due to drug crime,thats why.Guns that were used came out of Bosnia& the USA.Yardies probably.No criminal to my knowledge has used a rifle with a telescopic sight(which are still legal by the way:-)in any crimes,nor did they use lever-action guns also.You seem to forget something:Drug trafficking was more mainstream in the 90s,than in the 1980s,in which armed bank robberies were the norm.Most blaggers converted over to drug importing&heavier weapons.
MarineAqua45 10 months ago
@mufc4527 Britain years ago had less gun crime than now.In the 1950s there were 4 armed raids a year,by the police,in London,just 4.No one said gun crime was high then,as it wasn't at all.Doors could be left open,without fear.Try that nowdays.No special tactical units,at all,just Bobbies&CID men.Anti-gun people,possibly like yourself,have one agenda&one agenda only:using every excuse to disarm us legitimate folk of our pastime.Why don't you ask the BASC for your info?
MarineAqua45 10 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 "Would you dare rob me if you pulled a knife at me and I pull a gun at you?"
Obviously not - but if I were a criminal looking to mug you, and I thought there was even a chance that you might be carrying a gun then I'd get a bigger gun and I'd shoot you without warning so you didn't have a chance to shoot back at me. I'd get your wallet off your cooling dead body, and I'd also get your gun to add to my collection.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic and how does that prove that gun control stops YOU from obtaining a bigger gun and shooting me dead? Whenever guns are legal or not, guns can be obtained by get this...THE BLACK FUCKING MARKET!.....
And also if you were looking to buy a bigger gun then me from a gun shop, then you as a criminal wouldn't LEGALLY (The key word) be able to buy a firearm. So where do you go from this point on? Oh yeah that's right...
THE BLACK FUCKING MARKET!
The one gun control fails to enforce.....
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@MrSoprano0125 Of course if I were a criminal I'd get my first gun on black market. But that doesn't address the point that if you (as a law abiding citizen) are carrying a gun then my best strategy as a criminal is to simply shoot you without any warning so you don't have a chance to retaliate or protect yourself. Even if you're not carrying a gun, my best strategy is to shoot you first just in case you've got a weapon.
mandolinic 8 months ago
@mandolinic so your strategy is to just shoot me? In a street where loads of people can hear your gunshot....people seeing you witnessing MY murder. Witnesses giving out descriptions of you, being hunted down like a dog. Yup! the best strategy.
And do you think you'll be able to live with blood on your hands just for a measely wallet and my gun? Sounds to me like you are a cold blooded bastard....
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@mandolinic Criminals only pick on unarmed people. Your motivation for murdering me is to get my gun. Let me tell you that it wouldn't be easy and wouldn't be like a computer game like Call of Duty or Timesplitters. Your motivation seems stupid and gives out any wonder why criminals would rather rob unarmed people for money to buy guns in the black market then to try and kill someone for their gun.
You seem like a worth candidate for America's Dumbest Criminals......
MrSoprano0125 8 months ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 The more gun control and the fewer good people that have guns the more a criminal wants one. It gives them more power. If everyone has a gun, the criminal is on equal grounds with potential vics. In that case a criminal will resort to theft by stealth(gun is of marginal benefit)
If nobody has a gun the criminal is on basically equal ground so they go after women,elderly
If the criminal & nobody elsa is armed it gives the criminal great power(anyone is potential target)
shananagans5 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 I am not for criminals having guns legally, they gave up that right with their crime, but if it was legal it wouldn't really make any diff in crime rates.
shananagans5 1 year ago
i would like the anti-gun lobby in here to listen to the 911 recording made by terrified women in the USA who were calling for help when stalkers and rapists were breaking into their homes. The police were too far away to get to the scene, but all the women in question are all alive today because they had access to a gun and were able to put a bullet in their attackers. So what would you rather have? A woman raped, beaten, then strangled with her own panties, or a dead criminal?
bgibb101 1 year ago
@bgibb101
Allright what about the THOUSANDS of innocent people raped and murdered in the US every year- no shortage of guns there!
CLEARLY it doesn't lead to more security. If it did, the US would have some of the worlds lowest crime rates.
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@bgibb101
And I would like the pro-gun lobby to listen to the families of THOUSANDS of victims who have died from guns. People who could well be ALIVE today if stricter gun laws were in place.
Laws that would have stopped a 6 year old accidently picking up a gun and shooting several people
Your attempt at gaining some sort of moral highground is flawed because by opposing gun control, you believe anyone should have a gun.
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - When you state "thousands of people," are you referring only to the UK? How about the thousands of people killed by knife crime, or by drunk drivers, or by other means. Wjy single out guns?
bgibb101 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 So MOST responsible gun owners should have thier guns taken away because of SOME irresponsible gun owners who don't keep guns safely locked away? So ALL responsible gun owners should suffer because of fucktards like you who blames the gun rather than the person firing it or owning it?.......
MrSoprano0125 1 year ago
Since 1996, gun crime has increased overall in the UK by 92%. Now we have large areas in London, Manchester, Glasgow & Liverpool controlled by gangs armed with machine guns, controling the drugs trade. Teenagers packing illegal handguns battle it out over “respect” shootings. And coppers still walk around unarmed while the rest of the country hide behind locked doors, barred windows and burglar alarms after dark, controlled by fear and intimidated by criminals.
bgibb101 1 year ago
Ten years after Blair's "total ban" on handguns, there were an estimated four million illegal guns circulating in the UK in 2006. Criminals can get easy access to Mac-10 sub-machine guns and handguns Going back seven years, 440 people were seriously wounded by firearms in 2003-04, up five per cent from 2002. In the first six months of 2009, the number of shootings in London had almost doubled from 123 to 236 compared with the same period in 2008, a rise of 91.8%.
bgibb101 1 year ago
Secondly, No one person could stop Derrick Bird. Not the police, not the public. Why? Because they were unarmed. Nobody had a gun or access to one that could be used to stop this slaughter. He went on a killing spree for 35 miles before he walked into a secluded area and topped himself. Bird was even in plain sight of two police officers who were scooting people out of the way and shouting at others to “take cover.” They could not stop him. Their didn't have firearms.
bgibb101 1 year ago
@bgibb101
Bullshit. The whole argument about being armed leading to security is a lot of crap. The US has extremely soft gun laws with many households holding guns; that doesn't stop thousands of innocent people being murdered there every year!
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@bgibb101
'No person could stop Derrick Bird'
The same logic could be applied to every spree killer in countries with soft gun laws; you say having tough gun laws doesn't lead to security. I say having soft gun laws is a recipe for more gun murders; more guns + more gun murders. thats obvious!
WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 1 year ago
@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 - More cars on the road means more drunk drivers, more car thefts and more joy riders runninmg down innocent people. More knives means more knife crime by people who carry them, more bridges mean more places for people to jump off , more gas stoves mean more opportunity to gas yourself. Looser drinking laws mean more chance to die from alcoholism. Lets just force everybody to stay at home with a ball & chain around their ankles, right?
bgibb101 1 year ago
An armed citizenry is a deterrant against this kind of slaughter. Remember Hungerford (16 people shot dead, including an unarmed copper), Dunblane (16 children shot dead, including a teacher), and now Cumbria? I would argue that if any of the victims in these horrors had access to a gun and were trained to use it, the nutters that committed these atrocities would have been stopped in their tracks a lot sooner.
bgibb101 1 year ago
So would somebody from Great Britain please inform me on exactly what the gun laws are there. I hear many different answers. Are all guns illegal? Is it possible to get a license to own one? Can you carry one on you going about your usual routine? I have no idea and would appreciate someone who knows about this informing me on the specifics. Thank you.
tubevideoguy762 1 year ago
@tubevideoguy762 You can own shotguns in the UK but regulation are extremely tight. You have to have a good justification to own one. Handguns are illegal in the UK on the whole apart from air pistols, BB guns etc
MrSoprano0125 1 year ago
@MrSoprano0125
Oh alright so if you're lucky you maybe allowed to own a shotgun. I heard that shotguns are limited to a 2+1 capacity in the U.K. is there truth to that or could I own a 12+1 saiga 12 gauge? All handguns are illegal but what rifles? Can you own an AR-15 or SKS? I haven't talked to many people from the U.K.
tubevideoguy762 1 year ago
@tubevideoguy762 you can own double barreled shotguns and you can only own a shotgun that carries 3 rounds. And no you cannot own military turned civilian rifles or automatic rifles. You can own a bolt action rifle but again only if it carries 3 rounds but you cannot own a semi or full auto rifle....
MrSoprano0125 1 year ago
@MrSoprano0125
Dam it that fucking sucks hard. Don't think I could live without my wasr10 or saiga12. Thank you for the info.
tubevideoguy762 1 year ago
@MrSoprano0125
Respectfully, I believe you are incorrect on a few points.
Double barrels and 2+1 shotguns can be owned on a shotgun certificate.
High capacity shotguns can be owned on a firearms certificate.
Bolt, Lever and Pump action rifles can be owned on a firearms certificate, with no magazine restrictions.
We can still own semi auto rifles that are at or below .22 in caliber. (Although there are rumours of them going section 5, i.e. completely illegal.
neab321 1 year ago
@MrSoprano0125 You can have more than 3 rounds if you have a section 1 FAC, in shotguns and rifles,but not with section 2.
shumble69 1 year ago