Sprinklers corrupt international building code process

[HomeEnergyNow]

If you haven't seen the banks relationship our govt.s, here is your chance. R-value used to be used for each climate to control condensation and structure problems from it. Those didn't change for decades because there was no need. Now that our govt. is more an arm of banks, even though we can build 1million sqft or 100sqft homes they are trying to force us to build "efficiently" by spending far more than we save on extra Rvalue. Dont be stupid people, homes dont use energy/start fires, we do.

[Dethreid]

building codes seem to be reaching a point where they are adding far too much cost onto home construction.

this constant nit picking trying to save people from themselves really needs to stop somewhere.

[dommer117rant]

Hello, yes I am posting here too. SURPRISE FUCKERS!..... But no in all seriousness, I just wanna say that after listening to shit and complaining about money not being available then being bused to A CASINO?! WTF. You people need to be shot by hamas and dropped to the sharks. Your negative shittery is not helping us AT ALL. I do hope one day that all you corrupters are killed, wiped out, because you.are.not.needed.

thanks for reading something that doesn't matter.

[TopPensFan]

Listen to the McCauley testimony again. She explains that there are much lower cost solutions than sprinklers to slow the burn in new homes, like special dry wall and foam applications. Unfortunately, the fire services representatives didn't stay at the ICC meeting for votes on those topics. They had already left for the casino. By the way, home builders are happy to install sprinklers for any customer who wants to pay the additional $8,000. Problem is that consumers don't want them.

[Gr8Bud1]

Let's give the homebuyer a choice on load-bearing walls, GFCIs, fire stopping, lightweight construction products - they can trust the homebuilder. Well, maybe the homebuyer should do an internet search on lightweight construction firefighter safety before buying a new home - this unsafe condition is what lead to the fire sprinkler requirement. With $7.5 Billion in home fire damage each year the issue is clearly that of the homebuilder's want to retain the rebuild market.

[jdat747]

@Gr8Bud1 Even w/ all the rules, bad builders build cheap houses that don't last. For something as complex as a house, a buyer must do due diligence to ensure that he or she is getting a quality product. I wonder how much of that 7.5 billion is caused by faulty wiring installed by "Licensed" electricians. Yet, it is illegal for me to wire a house ... as if it were rocket science or something.

[Gr8Bud1]

@jdat747 The PBA will have to be able to say convincingly in a court of law where this issue will inevitably go that it did everything they possibly could to lower the risk of death, injury, and excessive property loss from fire. One cannot assume the homebuyer will accept 100% of the risk of death, injury, and excessive property loss from fire when the homebuilder knowingly uses construction products that have been proven, from very credible sources, to fail quickly in fires.

[jdat747]

@Gr8Bud1 What's the mortality rate on homeless people? Remember, when you raise housing costs, more people can't afford to live in a house (or apartment ). Are the handful of lives that will be saved by the sprinklers going to make up for all the people who will die of pneumonia under a bridge? Every decision should have a cost benefit analysis done on it. There are so many other ways to spend $8K / household that would save many more lives than residential fire sprinklers.

[Gr8Bud1]

@jdat747 The median price of a new home is beyond the reach of 76.6% of American households. Over 95% of the homes on the market are existing homes - this 76.6% of households rent or buy an existing home. Your $8k cost figure is inflated - Habitat for Humanity in Austin Texas reports costs as low as $0.36 per sq. ft. You install a T on the plumbing and run a pipe inside the wall, install a sidewall sprinkler - your estimate is $533+ for each sprinkler. PBA goal - Rebuild market retention.

[jdat747]

@Gr8Bud1 Here's a good link for cost ... in 2005 dollars: w_w_w_dot_usfa.dhs.gov/fireser­vice/research/dsn/sprinkler_sy­stems.shtm It pegs the average cost of a ranch style house at ~5K

$8K is not excessive since the price is likely to go up as soon as it becomes a requirement

Also, when this hits the codes, one would have to retrofit existing homes for any major remodel. Also, when the cost of a new house goes up, the cost of used will follow as more people compete for used.

[Gr8Bud1]

@jdat747 Cannot use 5K or 8K - must use cost per sprinklered sq. ft. 5K not excessive for a 3,500 sq. ft. ranch. A ranch house is not affordable housing. The IRC code specifically states it does not apply to existing or renovations. Prices will go down - basic economics 101 more competition seeking work drives prices down. My daughter sucessfully bid $285,000 for a house listed for $315,000 - does this mean the granite countertop was free? Housing prices are negotiated not fixed

[jdat747]

another good ref:

residential losses already on steady decline. also, for 2009, ~2000 people died in 1 and 2 family homes. How many of those were in older homes or homes w/ no working alarm? How many lives is this really going to save out of that 2000? You could spend much less on Hwy. improvements and save more lives.

[Gr8Bud1]

@jdat747 Google "lightweight construction firefighter safety" and you will find 16,000+ hits on what is wrong with new construction. Firefighter deaths from home collapse increased from 13 % to 51 % in the last decade. New homes are not safe. Add in the open space and combustible furniture and fire deaths will increase. Stop using my kids as your benchmark and start using your kids - should your kids die in a new home solely because the homebuilders wants to maximize his profit margin?

[jdat747]

@Gr8Bud1 That's where everyone has a choice. I put sprinklers in my house when I built it. I also used solid lumber for joists, and the beams that support the 2nd floor have steel sheets sandwiched and bolted between 2x12s. I also designed it so their are 2 exits from the 2nd floor. If building codes were in force in the area where I built, I wouldn't have been able to afford any of that. I would have spent all my money on permits and inspections.

[jdat747]

@Gr8Bud1 If it weren't for the codes, builders could use the leftover form lumber to do the floor joists like they did in the old days. Since they can't use "used" lumber for new construction, they use those flimsy OSB engineered beams ... and I agree, those do suck.

[HomeEnergyNow]

@Gr8Bud1 Yeah, it's the builders, not the people cooking meth or letting their house start on fire? Fireman arent allowed to put themselves into danger, if they do, they are breaking the rules. Using that statistic is stupid and has no relation to home construction. Another nanny state promoter than isn't smart enough to buy or build a home that is safe, so he goes to mr gubment for the answers........good luck with that. If you use meth, is it the meth manufacturers you blame for bad health?

[jdat747]

@Gr8Bud1 3w_dot_ nfpa  _dot_org/assets/files/PDF/OS.f­ireloss_dot_pdf

[HomeEnergyNow]

@Gr8Bud1 h4h austin?There is a quality home. LOL Last one I saw the family moving in didn't know english, good for them. As long as donations are paying a bank interest ofcourse h4h is going to spend as much as they can on rediculous shit like a sprinkler that will likely be leak or be set off and destroy the home w/out a fire. They also use gubment Energy Star and USGBC because they all work for the same bankers out to push maximum debt onto us.They gonna force me to pay my water bill dumbshit?

[t3songer]

Give people the choice! Educate them and the builders/installers and then let them do their thing. If homeowners perceive this to be a value to them they will install them given ADEQUATE information. Listen, if builders can make money installing sprinklers, which they should be able to do through a markup, they will install them.

You look at all of the codes that are currently in the residential code. The only thing they don't tell you to do, YET, is how to actually use the toilet.

[snemroff]

I just received a quote of almost $8,000 to install a fire sprinkler in a 2,000 square foot townhome. This number is almost $2.50 more per square foot than sprinkler proponents have been quoting. The people quoting an installation price of $1.50 to $1.60 per square foot all work in the fire sprinkler industry. Sell me the system at that price and I will gladly install it.

[TopPensFan]

When will Harrisburg start to listen? It's about the economy, stupid! Yet they pass a new building code adding $13,000 to the cost of a new home -- during the worst housing economy since WWII. Now, on top of that, we learn the building code process was fixed. I've heard enough...Roll back the code!!! Harrisburg...Are you listening now?

[Gr8Bud1]

During the same Senate hearing the PBA testified they did not provide funding. A paper was presented to the Senate Committee signed by a Harrisburg homebuilder that offered $850 travel expense to building officials to vote against fire sprinklers. McCauley quotes high prices that are excessively high - the median price for new homes is 40% higher than the median price for existng homes - to suggest new homes are affordable for first time low income home buyers is misleading.

[t3songer]

They offered this fee, but they couldn't guarantee that the person would vote against the bill. Our code office is a member of our builders association and could have received this grant and voted for the code. You can't tell me that the voting system doesn't need to be changed? Sprinklers are not the only issue here, it's the way new codes are presented, voted on and implemented. The sprinkler vote just proved that the system is broken.