Latin Mass Converted pagans to Catholicism. The Novus Ordo is converting Catholics to pagans. Look at the numbers, they don't lie! Also, priest ranks are nearly empty. "By their fruits, you will know them."
Simply put, the Mass whether Latin or New Form is perfect, even if the priest is terrible. Latin is not better then New Form, it's all just as important and true. If you don't feel like you're getting an authentic worship on Sundays, don't blame the Mass, blame yourself. Look deep within your heart and find your faults, correct them and enjoy the Mass.
Always follow Church authority and not popular opinion and you will not go wrong.
There are so many church buildings where the Tridentine Mass won't work. As Catholics, we recognize that our physical world is connected to the spiritual world. Beauty recognized through our senses helps us access the spiritual. Beautiful altars, beautiful music, scents, candles, and the ritual movements and language of the Mass. It is so sad that we are losing Catholics who spend their time doing yoga postures using New Age objects. All they need is in our own Faith but no one told them.
I would LOVE to have one Mass on Sat eve,/Sunday, out of the 6 offered, be offered to us that was the Old Latin Mass as it was for centuries, and although my parish in Myrtle Beach, SC has come leaps and bounds in the last few mos. I still don't think we're quite there yet to get this request. I may have to move back to Ct. where Catholics are more than 3% of the population to get that dream fulfilled lol.
We talk about listening to the Holy Father, obeying him, etc. But what about bishops opposing the Holy Father's will when it comes to the celebration of the traditional rite? Where is the obedience in this manner? With all due respect, it's the language is only a part of the problem, the other problem is the theology of the two forms of the Roman Rite, specifically, that of the Eucharistic Sacrifice. The Novus Ordo, while valid, is simply watered down in this regard.
Come on, Let's tell the truth ... Creative? Spontaneous? ... NO ... Rather, they are full of sh_t. Disobedient, frauds, YES! Give me Tridentine or Byzantine.
you know why because some priests there were belong to other christians denominations and they bringing their previous traditions, faith to catholic, so that is what happen.
you know why because some priests there were belong to other christians denominations and they bringing their previous traditions, faith to catholic, so that is what happen.
The thing is that, our invisible man, how u call him, calls upon all the people of the world to help everyone else that is in need, Jesus said to love one another as we love ourselves. Selfishness is one of the evils that is taking mankind from charity and love to the human being. We have a duty to help others in need and it's calling; part of sanctity; that is out mission in life. Many of us don't answer that calling, therefore try leave the most needy unhealed from starvation and
IF YOUR INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY EXISTS WHY DOES HE LET MILLIONS OF INNOCENT MEN AND CHILDREN DIE EACH YEAR?? WHY DOES HE NEVER ANSWER PRAYERS? GOD IS JUST A STORY TO CONTROL PEOPLE YOU DUMB FUCKS
The New Mass is what drove us away from the Church! And finding the the Traditional Latin Mass has made us believe that we are Now returning to the true faith, the true tradition of so many of our Saints. I use to cry whenever I'd leave a new mass, seeing all the abuses that took place. It is all about the people, and Not about Christ's SACRIFICE of the Mass. In years to come, there will only be theLatin Mass. Thanks be to God!
If only, says the Cardinal, the NO were offered properly, demand for the TLM would decrease. I doubt it because the TLM embodied a Catholic theology and ritual that is not wholly present in the NO. Of course the NO is valid, but it is judged by the TLM, which shows which is the standard.
@RichardIIfan Well said. This is my argument, it's not simply about a reverent Novus Ordo, decked out to look like a traditional Latin Mass. It's the prayers and the rituals that are explicitly indicative of the Eucharistic Sacrifice these theological difference between the two Masses are the source of the debate. Not just the language, because as we know, the Novus Ordo can be celebrated in Latin.
@RichardIIfan That being said, I do believe there is a problem in "traditionalist" parishes is a holier than thou attitude which needs to be addressed.
@rpgabc123 yes you are right again. I went to a Church in London that did both forms but I went to the TLM and there was a bit of that attitude. However it works the other way round, or at least it did, with noses in the air look how loyal we are. Humility is a virtue. I cannot get to it now and have to put up with lousy liturgy.
@RichardIIfan Very true. Although what I've noticed about the Novus Ordo is that people will speak about correcting liturgical abuses (i.e. through documents, through exhortations, etc), however, direct action is not taken. Surely the CDW has this authority, I wonder why it's not used.
@rpgabc123 That is the trad and conservative divide. I am the formerand see the TLM as the better way. The conservative sees the novus ordo and says if only the abuses were dealt wtih everything would be all right. They will never be corrected because the liberal-modernists will try theri hardest
@RichardIIfan I would consider myself in the same camp as you. Although I have no problem attending a reverent Novus Ordo Mass, it is still not the same as attending a TLM. Even if the abuses were corrected and the Novus Ordo was celebrated in the same manner as the TLM, it's still not the same. We've had 40+ years of experimentation and, quite frankly, enough is enough.
@rpgabc123 Quite. It's been a massive pastoral failure. The young want to rediscover their lost Catholic heritage. Liberalism is boring. I am sick of drivel bogstandard liturgy and pure emotionalism without any depth.
@rpgabc123 That is the trad and conservative divide. I am the formerand see the TLM as the better way. The conservative sees the novus ordo and says if only the abuses were dealt wtih everything would be all right. They will never be corrected because the liberal-modernists will try not to let them. Fortunately they no longer have teh upper hand in the Church since 2005.
Sorry, I am not used to your language, you may rectify it.
I am european, and, by family alliance mariages indian too. Surprised? It happen sometimes.
You may confusion over the messages for I never evoked the term 'sedevacantist' rather obsolete nowdays......and for the rest, it is not really instructive to discuss about.
This is my last answer to you, Sir, other more conveient key-warriors may wait for you, for I am not one.
I've attended a Latin Mass for the first time during a friend's wedding. Everything in that Mass told me that the altar is sacred and that there is real presence of our Lord in the form of the Blessed Sacrament. The head cover of the women, the genuflections, and the whole Latin Mass CLEARLY told me that I was attending a holy activity with the Lord's real physical presence. I don't think that it was mere FEELINGS. I believe we should bring back the real essense of the Mass to the faithful.
I can recommend my vids from the Agneskerk (Agneschurch) in Amsterdam, Holland. Served by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, in full communion with the pope. Esp. the Christmass Eve mass is very interesting, certainly for people who have never attended a tridentine mass.
It is about the language. Maybe 50 years ago, there may have been a few abuses but they weren't as distracting. Abandoning the Latin was a mistake, and this said from a Cardinal. And at least you know that if the Mass is in Latin, it's Catholic.
i just don't understand. vatican says the tridentine rite is the extraordinary form and NO is the ordinary form of worship. When we worhip God, why worship him in the ordinary way? He's God right? shouldn't he be worship in the extraordinary or best way we can? It's like addressing a king by his name instead of addressing him "your highness".
The fruits of Vatican II have not been good and by their fruits you shall know them. There has been a dramatic loss in vocations and modernism has entered the church. Prayers have been taken out, much reverence is lost and the liturgy is very different. I have been to both and I would almost think they were different religions, if I had not been informed beforehand that it was Catholic.
@JULIESloveslotr What you have seen is not what the council Fathers had in mind. That is the work of Satan trying to ruin a great thing and trying to delay a new Pentecost and the marian era... I have seen The authentic fruit of V2 the way the fathers envisioned it in continuity with our organic development and it is a mighty work. The devil is a divider and deceiver. Prepare for the reform of the refrom, and await the power of God.
@JULIESloveslotr If things were going so well for the Church before the Second Vatican Council, then how come things fell apart so easily, directly after it ended?
@TenderTrap86 You may want to watch the two-part special of Michael Voris (Real Catholic TV) on what happened to the Latin Mass. Please check youtube "Weapons of Mass Destruction 1" and "Weapons of Mass Destruction 2" (I couldn't attach the exact links here)
I have had the experience of attending a TLM. And yes the respect and reverence is so much greater. I mainly attend N.O. Mass and bring the respect and reverence I have learned from TLM. I recommend anyone to at least experience attending a TLM. I hear from certain Catholics whining about they don't understand Latin and it's so long being most of these Catholics are poorly catechised.. I pray and hope more TLM would be in the dioceses.
@johns58w I used to be a TLM devotee, but now I exclusivley attend my parish's "no frills" NO mass. I also dislike hearing Catholics complain about worship in Latin. Muslims use Arabic. Jews use Hebrew. So, why would Catholics have a problem with using Latin? I think the greivence isn't really about the Latin, itself, but more about the worry that the Church is going backwards; losing the "spirit of Vatican II" (I just regergitated :0) because those people think V2 *really* changed the faith.
His eminence misses the point or avoids it purposely. It's not about the deplorable abuses in the NO mass. The NO is protestantized. It turned the sacrifice of the Mass into a communal meal. I stopped attending that mass about twelve years ago. It almost drove me away from the faith.
The NO end on the ash heap of history. Not in our lifetimes but it will die, as it should. It is a banal, on the spot, modernist contrivance, as opposed to the living organically developed Mass of All Ages
I am just learning about Latin mass and have attended a few. They are absolutely beautiful and my heart feels pain and love at the same time. I love the focus on the eucharist during mass, but I most love that we kneel during communion. A few months ago is when I first knelt during communion... I thought my heart was going to pop out of my chest. An indescribable love in my heart and the tears did not stop flowing from my eyes. I wish it was offered at more convenient times (not just am).
@my2torts God bless you. This liturgy saved me as a Catholic. Please pray that it will continue to grow in use and all Priests and their Bishops will embrace it in every diocese.
Interesting. When it gets down to brass tacks, the comments are dominated by Catholics. Only a good Catholic could laugh when discussing such issues of critical importance.
And if anyone would nevertheless ever dare to attempt any action contrary to this order of ours, given for all times, let him know that he has incurred the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul." Pope Pius V's own words, not mine.
At no time in the future can a priest, whether secular or order priest, ever be forced to use any other way of saying Mass. And so as to preclude once and for all any scruples of conscience and fear of ecclesiastical penalties and censures, we herewith declare that it is in virtue of our Apostolic Authority that we decree and determine that this our present order and decree is to last in PERPETUITY and can never be legally revoked or amended at a future date. . .
Sain Pius the V LATIN ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS DECREE QUO PRIMUM JULY 19, 1570: "By this our decree, to be valid IN PERPETUITY, we determine and order that NEVER shall anything be added to, omitted from, or changed in this Missal. .
The thing is the issue is not even about the use of Latin vs. Vernacular. It's the Liturgy and the prayers that surround the Consecration which give integrity to the mass that is the issue
Another reason for preferring Latin Mass: linguistic neutrality.
Despite the demand, the Dublin Archdiocese does'nt make Sunday mass available in Irish. The Laity in Artane provide the only Sunday Mass in Irish in Dublin by recruiting priests from throughout the city to take turns in saying mass.
In Britany mass is not in Breton, in Arinze's native Nigeria mass is in English. Throughout the world the mass has become an instrument of linguistic oppression by using the language of conquest.
The different options and emphasis on community celebration make the Novus Ordo - even when it is celebrated according to the books, which it seldom is - look like something the people are doing rather than something God is doing. The priest and people face each other, grin, crack jokes, hug, hold hands, etc. It feels like we're talking to each other instead of a third party like God. The TLM is the opposite of all that. It's clear that the focus is on God and His action.
Consider the possibility of a Non-Penetential, Non-Sacrificial Ecumenical Namaste Latin Mass - Celebrating the Divinity Within Humanity - Alternatim. I realize this is heresy - but it's where my heart and mind are presently - regarding organized community spirituality in modernity. I presently have difficulty with cowering before a God who requires human sacrifice - repeated symbolically and ritually in the mass - week after week. There are ancient ties which seem to bind as a noose. Namaste.
@MyBetty111 I'm sorry, but the Novus Ordo(in the real Latin) is very, very, very close to the earliest liturgies when carried out the right way. Read the early liturgies, and compare with the new translation when it comes out. Very similar. I'd rather have it closer to the first century than the 15th. Some progressives turn the NO into a "protestant" seeming liturgy. Its not the nature of the NO.
@navarroportriple No in the past, there were no altar girls, communion in the hand, and other sacrilegious rubbish. You can have your Novus Ordo Clown Mass, we choose to stay faithful to the Tradition
@ivanenrile I think we should be able to celebrate mass in a way that unifies us through faith and Latin. Customs might be harder to unify. I only think the prayers and readings ought to be in Latin, though. Now, if you are following the antipopes, or are a sedvacantist, I can't convince you...
@ivanenrile I think we should be able to celebrate mass in a way that unifies us through faith and Latin. Customs might be harder to unify. I only think the prayers and readings ought to be in Latin, though. Now, if you are following the antipopes, or are a sedevacantist, I can't convince you...I would like to see an argument as to why the popes since either Pius XII or Blessed John XXIII haven't been as valid as any other and therefore can't make changes to the rites
@Ilkeyrion Council of Trent (a dogmatic council unlike the pastoral Vatican II) says: Although the mass contains great instruction for the faithful people, nevertheless, it has not seemed expedient to the Fathers, that it should be every where celebrated in the vulgar tongue.
I used to be an altar server and love the latin Mass. I have learnt to love the ON. With the Mass in the vernacular I think this helps participation more fully, helps people/young/new people joining our church to understand the Mass more easily. Good liturgy is important for dialogue with our heavenly Father. Getting obsessed with the Latin can cause us to regard our faith as elitist, our faith as private and personal and deflect from our real mission in the world.
The Latin Mass must return in ALL the Churches. The priest and the people must face the altar. The priest leads us to Calvary. Receive Communion kneeling and on the tongue! Be an example!
@MyGoretti The earliest liturgies used to be in the vernacular quite often(not always, I know, but the majority of the time). We need to go back to the beginning, not the 1400's. I love the Latin Mass, and I think it's good to have a few of the Mass parts, for example, the Sanctus, Agnus Dei, and maybe a few others, in Latin very often. But the fact remains that people understand the prayers and can be mentally praying along with the priest when it is in the vernacular. It must be respectful tho
@MyGoretti though, and I agree that receiving kneeling and on the tongue is great(I do it). I also think the priest and the people should all face the same way toward the altar. But making it in Latin isn't the cure. Teaching people that the Holy Mass is Heaven on Earth and helping them understand how incredible it really is is the cure.
@MyGoretti I do think that the Second Vatican Council had its reasons, but I do wish we would return to the Latin Mass. However, the Pope is and always will be Christ's representative. We shouldn't question him unless Christ gives a sign saying that that pope has moved away from his reasons.
@Ilkeyrion We can question the pope, resist him even as previous councils, saints, and popes themselves taught. I am not a sedevacantist or a schismatic.
Yeah, I agree. As there is too much abuse, we crave for Tridentine mass!! I have nothing against the NO mass, but I love it in Latin, with much respect.
I have to disagree with the Cardinal. The reason I go to the TLM is because I never felt anything for the NO mass and I had a priest who was very serious, very devout and followed the book and gave the NO mass. I also went to the Franciscans of the Immaculate and they are devout in the saying the NO mass but I have felt nothing compare to the TLM. Even with the abuses in the TLM, they atleast had a large attendance compare to nowadays with NO mass.
I don't know any other way to say this, but Mass is not about your feelings. I am thankful you now have the option to choose and I hope you understand my comment was not mentto hurt yoir feelings ;-)
Mass is to bring us to heavenly things. NO mass did nothing but the TLM has. If Mass doesn't do that, than you get people are just lethargic. Even the Cardinal said "to suit the spirituality more. NO Mass did nothing like that but TLM has and many can concur. Not only that but our late Pope, St. Pius X told us that "we have to associate our hearts with the holy feelings which are contained" within the Mass. And finally, no pope had the right to take away the TLM from anyone!
I see your point and I agree that the Mass is a/the Heavenly Liturgy and that should be made manifest to the best possible degree incontinuity with our tradition. So I agree with the old Mass, but the New Mass is valid and is most beautiful when celebrated in continuity with the old. Ones personal feelings are a large part of what got us into this religious titilation that occurs in many Catholic Self-Worship services. So I think we just use the word feelings in a different sense.
Hey are u Gabriel? the guy that has several rosaries on his wrist? I am catholic. Let's be friends.
I never said that the new mass in invalid. On the contrary to say the new mass in invalid is to say that those ordained within the new mass-priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes are invalid. I am not sedevecantist. I just don't like the NO Mass very much but never will you hear me say to others that NO mass is invalid. I just have my opinions of the NO Mass which will be kept in silence.
:D Awesome! I didn't think you were against the NO and I didnt think you were a sedevecantis, but I just put that out because alot of them visit this channel and the stuff about the feelings I mention only cause a lot of hippie circus Mass Catholics visit this channel. Sorry ;)
@syg33142 I agree with you. The TLM is very special to me and while the Cardinal does say there were abuses, you cannot compare the abuses to the ones we see now in the NO. The rubrics are so disciplined it would be very hard to make much abuses. I've always thought this way...we are a part of the Roman Rite, therefore we should have a Latin Mass....it only makes sense. The Eastern Church's have kept the beauty of their rites liturgical worship. Rome should do the same.
@syg33142 I am an Asian and We and Our forefathers never heard about the Traditional Latin Masses. And its an utter false that TLM has Large Attendance.
Indian Regional People (Afghans, Pakistanis, Srilankans, Bengalis and Indians) are mostly Converted by St. Thomas the Apostle and were under the Patriarchate of Antioch extremely loyal to the Bishop of Rome and always will be. Later a Jesuit naming St. Francis Xavier introduced Latin Rite as Novus Ordu which was not common in Europe but for Centuries it was Common in the East.
I am not a Sedevacantist but a Catholic. So you may revise your Comments.
That's why the SSPX cannot just give into this. It cannot accept Vatican II! How can one be so hypocritical as to celebrate the real Mass but think the fake mass is acceptable?!
criticism of Paul VI Liturgy and Sacrosanctum Concilium seems to be the ultimate crime for him the new mass is radical and unwarranted departure from the tradition Paul VI Liturgy is deformed which caused me deep pain in the years number of serious liturgist scholars have criticism the Paul VI Liturgy and i can name the scholars but it will make Cardinal Arinze look funny and i will not stop criticizing new mass or the last 50 years god bless
I do agree when he says the Vatican is not to be challenged. When the second Vatican Council was established, all these satanic changes were not meant to occure. It was the people, not the Council.
When the council came, it was weak to begin with, and so the forces of Satan intervened, and people began taking advantage of the weakness to work in their own stuff under the Church's "nose". The Church is still recovering from that.
I still, however, dislike the newmass and will not attest to it
You error here. The council was made up of people. Archbishop Lefebvre along with others warned John XXIII and Paul VI about the changes they were planning and said that these changes would ultimately destroy the mass and the sacraments and cause a horrible loss of faith in the church! The forces of satan were already working as the council began. You dont attend the new mass because you know it's banal and a travesty. I trads didnt challenge the vatican you would have no latin mass now!
i am quite aware the council was made up of people, but i am saying it was the people of the council, not the Council itself.
Yes, Popes did say that but obviously it happened anyway. The VATICAN is not to be challenged, only the erroring forces within it. To denounce the VATICAN in heretical and non-Catholic.
But yes, if we traditionalistsdid not challenge the wrong, we would have lost our beloved Mass.
Do you agree that a catholic should indeed worship in the new mass areans? If you say yes then there is no need for you to pursue the latin mass. If no, then you are basicaly rejecting the popes of vatican II and the last 50 years of the stuff coming from the vatican, which in turn (in some way) is challenging the vatican. I dont reject the vatican today but I dont waste too much on whats going on over there today.
It really has nothing to do with spirituality. It has to do with preserving your Faith. Prayers were taken out of the Mass - the first time that ever occurred in the history of the Church! - that has more to do with spirituality methinks...
You: Prayers were taken out of the Mass - the first time that ever occurred in the history of the Church!
Me: Not true. The Tridentine reform itself was a "New Mass" at one time - it was a forced harmonization of missals from all over western Europe which in some case varied tremendously. Most of the changes were in the order of "cutting stuff out."
That said, the contemporary "liturgical reform" was a disaster. Bad taste is bad taste.
St. John Cantius Church in Chicago has workshops on the Latin Mass. You can go to their website at Sancta Missa (dot) org. Their homebase for the workshops are in Mundelien Seminary in Chicago but they have expanded to other states and even across the ocean.
"Because it suits their spirituality more",that's not a good explanation! If a satanic cult suits my spirituality more, should I attend?Unfortunately all conciliar churchmen pretend not to see that the new mass was one of several things that helped create a whole new religion. Now they try to put a band-aid on a tumor saying "they have to be more serious",but the problem is in essence the new ecclesiology deeply contrasting with the catholic teaching of always.For the rest I agree with iotaunum.
Cardinal Arinze did not address this issue properly! Why does he suggest that the "latin mass" merely suits our spirituality (our tastes?) better? He should know better. It is not an issue of being disillusioned by the Novus Ordo Mass as a result of Priests saying it incorrectly! The issue is with the changing of the words & the meanings, as well as dropping 70% of the original prayers and orations!
What part of the demand for the use of the Latin Mass does Cardinal Arinze not understand? Is he serious when he suggests that the priests could sing for us in Latin Once a month? Or that we could hear the Novus Ordo Mass In Latin? He is bound to know, given his Curial position, that the issue is not about the use of latin! We want the origional mass back for theological reasons alone!!!
Cardinal Arinze did not address this issue properly! Why does he suggest that the "latin mass" merely suits our spirituality (our tastes?) better? He should know better. It is not an issue of being disillusioned by the Novus Ordo Mass as a result of Priests saying it incorrectly! The issue is with the changing of the words & the meanings, as well as dropping 70% of the original prayers and orations!
I have been studying the Catholic faith for a while now. I am currently in a protestant church and I am not happy. I plan to convert to Catholocism as soon as I leave for college. I really appreciate these videos. Thanks.
I give creadence to your voice. Much of the music they have in the books is not only from protestent sources many times which does not belong in a catholic church, but the catholic hymns are not well translated. I work for nicholas maria publishers, we have english music but its properly translated and is prayerful in its words not just a feel good praise song.
When I try to show what we have to offer the liberals fight me tooth and nail to prevent me from spreading the use of our music.
I have heard convincing reasons for using Latin to say Mass and good reasons for using the vernacular, but it seems to me from my reading of the concerns of traditional Catholics, it is about the Form of the Rite, not just the language used, If one can say the new rite in Latin why can't we also have a traditional Rite In the vernacular?
That is a good point. I have never been to the TLM, but I regularly go to the Anglican Rite Catholic Use Mass. It is very beautiful and from what I can tell it is the TLM but in english.
@kolbe1019 Have you had a chance to go to a TLM yet? It is not the same as the Anglican Catholic Mass. I've been to an Anglican Catholic Mass in Arlington, TX, and it is mostly like the Novus Ordo with minor differences. It was somewhat traditional where I went. Ad orientem and use of communion rail. Still, it is much more like the Novus Ordo than the Usus Antiquior.
@kolbe1019 If the Novus Ordo is done correctly, following all rebrics and with respect to tradition, you will find that it is a logical development of the Missal of 1962. In fact, I found that the main differences were that priests could con-celebrate a mass and the Last Gospel (John 1:1-14) was dropped. Sadly, I feel that the Requiem Mass is not as good as before, but that said, there is nothing stopping a further development of Liturgy to restore some of what was lost.
so would I and father agreed to use more of it outside of lent, if I could convince others to request it. but the music department will have no part of it,
The number one excuse I get from people about latin is , NO ONE WILL UNDERSTAND IT. Bull that is why you have a missle to follow along, or they say NO the kids wont know it, Yea that is why you need to teach them then they will, the homily is a teaching point how will the kids know it if you dont even let them see the old mass.
If the NO mass was eliminated and the TLM reestablished there would be alot of confusion amongst the laity, I know myself having just recently made the switch to the TLM, it is going to take me some time to learn how to pray it. My feeling is that the NO mass can be altered with greater ease than the TLM can be reestablished. and that it can quite easily be made to bespeak the soul of the faith in the same way the TLM is such a voice.
Said ad orientem(or at least place the cross upon the alter). Received kneeling and on the tongue(this is how the holy father does it). Remove the EEM, and alter girls, restore chanting to the Liturgy of the Eucharist at least. and use a better translation of the missal, which I have heard is being prepared. May God bless His Church and the Holy Father. Amen
"Provided that the people do NOT challenge the second Vatican council..."
I love it! Absolutely! We are NOT to attack Vatican II! God bless Pope Benedict for freely allowing the Latin Mass. I love the Traditional Latin Mass.
Thank you Cardinal Arinze. That's right, some Priests abuse the way the Liturgy is supposed to be done. The way some of the Masses are being celebrated in such liberal ways, is NOT the way Holy Mother Church wants it to be done. VII is a NOT a heresy!
AMEN! I hate when people criticize the 2nd Vatican Council. The mistakes came with people's abuses and too many good people staying quiet as it happened. God bless you and God love you!
Latin Mass Converted pagans to Catholicism. The Novus Ordo is converting Catholics to pagans. Look at the numbers, they don't lie! Also, priest ranks are nearly empty. "By their fruits, you will know them."
onosurf 1 week ago
Simply put, the Mass whether Latin or New Form is perfect, even if the priest is terrible. Latin is not better then New Form, it's all just as important and true. If you don't feel like you're getting an authentic worship on Sundays, don't blame the Mass, blame yourself. Look deep within your heart and find your faults, correct them and enjoy the Mass.
Always follow Church authority and not popular opinion and you will not go wrong.
1tontomato 2 months ago
There are so many church buildings where the Tridentine Mass won't work. As Catholics, we recognize that our physical world is connected to the spiritual world. Beauty recognized through our senses helps us access the spiritual. Beautiful altars, beautiful music, scents, candles, and the ritual movements and language of the Mass. It is so sad that we are losing Catholics who spend their time doing yoga postures using New Age objects. All they need is in our own Faith but no one told them.
deedebdoo 2 months ago
I would LOVE to have one Mass on Sat eve,/Sunday, out of the 6 offered, be offered to us that was the Old Latin Mass as it was for centuries, and although my parish in Myrtle Beach, SC has come leaps and bounds in the last few mos. I still don't think we're quite there yet to get this request. I may have to move back to Ct. where Catholics are more than 3% of the population to get that dream fulfilled lol.
scgiants 3 months ago
We talk about listening to the Holy Father, obeying him, etc. But what about bishops opposing the Holy Father's will when it comes to the celebration of the traditional rite? Where is the obedience in this manner? With all due respect, it's the language is only a part of the problem, the other problem is the theology of the two forms of the Roman Rite, specifically, that of the Eucharistic Sacrifice. The Novus Ordo, while valid, is simply watered down in this regard.
rpgabc123 3 months ago
Come on, Let's tell the truth ... Creative? Spontaneous? ... NO ... Rather, they are full of sh_t. Disobedient, frauds, YES! Give me Tridentine or Byzantine.
3633austin 5 months ago
you know why because some priests there were belong to other christians denominations and they bringing their previous traditions, faith to catholic, so that is what happen.
lovencare62 5 months ago
you know why because some priests there were belong to other christians denominations and they bringing their previous traditions, faith to catholic, so that is what happen.
lovencare62 5 months ago
@michiman57
The thing is that, our invisible man, how u call him, calls upon all the people of the world to help everyone else that is in need, Jesus said to love one another as we love ourselves. Selfishness is one of the evils that is taking mankind from charity and love to the human being. We have a duty to help others in need and it's calling; part of sanctity; that is out mission in life. Many of us don't answer that calling, therefore try leave the most needy unhealed from starvation and
paradise1950 5 months ago
IF YOUR INVISIBLE MAN IN THE SKY EXISTS WHY DOES HE LET MILLIONS OF INNOCENT MEN AND CHILDREN DIE EACH YEAR?? WHY DOES HE NEVER ANSWER PRAYERS? GOD IS JUST A STORY TO CONTROL PEOPLE YOU DUMB FUCKS
michiman57 5 months ago
The New Mass is what drove us away from the Church! And finding the the Traditional Latin Mass has made us believe that we are Now returning to the true faith, the true tradition of so many of our Saints. I use to cry whenever I'd leave a new mass, seeing all the abuses that took place. It is all about the people, and Not about Christ's SACRIFICE of the Mass. In years to come, there will only be theLatin Mass. Thanks be to God!
MsCampobasso 6 months ago
I don't like how the Cardinal laughed at the fact there were priests who preformed abuses to the sacrifice. That's a bold statement
JamesFrancis1000 6 months ago
I know Latin. If I ever become a priest, I will definitely offer the Traditional Mass on a regular basis. I will also offer the Extraordinary Mass.
LVCIVSTVLLIVSATELLVS 6 months ago
I thank the Holy Father and thank him for what he has done.
RichardIIfan 6 months ago
If only, says the Cardinal, the NO were offered properly, demand for the TLM would decrease. I doubt it because the TLM embodied a Catholic theology and ritual that is not wholly present in the NO. Of course the NO is valid, but it is judged by the TLM, which shows which is the standard.
RichardIIfan 6 months ago
@RichardIIfan Well said. This is my argument, it's not simply about a reverent Novus Ordo, decked out to look like a traditional Latin Mass. It's the prayers and the rituals that are explicitly indicative of the Eucharistic Sacrifice these theological difference between the two Masses are the source of the debate. Not just the language, because as we know, the Novus Ordo can be celebrated in Latin.
rpgabc123 3 months ago
@rpgabc123 Thank you. I just wish I could reasonalbly get to the TLM or extraordinary form.
RichardIIfan 3 months ago
@RichardIIfan That being said, I do believe there is a problem in "traditionalist" parishes is a holier than thou attitude which needs to be addressed.
rpgabc123 3 months ago
@rpgabc123 yes you are right again. I went to a Church in London that did both forms but I went to the TLM and there was a bit of that attitude. However it works the other way round, or at least it did, with noses in the air look how loyal we are. Humility is a virtue. I cannot get to it now and have to put up with lousy liturgy.
RichardIIfan 3 months ago
@RichardIIfan Very true. Although what I've noticed about the Novus Ordo is that people will speak about correcting liturgical abuses (i.e. through documents, through exhortations, etc), however, direct action is not taken. Surely the CDW has this authority, I wonder why it's not used.
rpgabc123 3 months ago
@rpgabc123 That is the trad and conservative divide. I am the formerand see the TLM as the better way. The conservative sees the novus ordo and says if only the abuses were dealt wtih everything would be all right. They will never be corrected because the liberal-modernists will try theri hardest
RichardIIfan 3 months ago
@RichardIIfan I would consider myself in the same camp as you. Although I have no problem attending a reverent Novus Ordo Mass, it is still not the same as attending a TLM. Even if the abuses were corrected and the Novus Ordo was celebrated in the same manner as the TLM, it's still not the same. We've had 40+ years of experimentation and, quite frankly, enough is enough.
rpgabc123 3 months ago
@rpgabc123 Quite. It's been a massive pastoral failure. The young want to rediscover their lost Catholic heritage. Liberalism is boring. I am sick of drivel bogstandard liturgy and pure emotionalism without any depth.
RichardIIfan 3 months ago 8
@rpgabc123 That is the trad and conservative divide. I am the formerand see the TLM as the better way. The conservative sees the novus ordo and says if only the abuses were dealt wtih everything would be all right. They will never be corrected because the liberal-modernists will try not to let them. Fortunately they no longer have teh upper hand in the Church since 2005.
RichardIIfan 3 months ago
I'm curious why he says 60 yrs also full implementation was only about 40 yrs ago
sekenney88 6 months ago
No sorry, I cannot fully agrre with Monsignore.
As a european, latin epecifically, I inherited european values.
Many artificial reasons interrupted them, may thinking for the better... But as I am not part of these reasons, why sahll I renounce to those values?
Consider it. I am for the improvement of what we have already, not for the dismiss of it.
sinoples 6 months ago
@sinoples At an instant you Sedevacantist is Claiming to be European at other moment you are saying me that You Are an Asian,
YOU ARE FAITHLESS NO DOUBT BUT NOW YOU ARE TONGUELESS YOU MIGHT BE A WORST DESIGNATION OF A WOMAN.
eraser695 6 months ago
@eraser695
Sorry, I am not used to your language, you may rectify it.
I am european, and, by family alliance mariages indian too. Surprised? It happen sometimes.
You may confusion over the messages for I never evoked the term 'sedevacantist' rather obsolete nowdays......and for the rest, it is not really instructive to discuss about.
This is my last answer to you, Sir, other more conveient key-warriors may wait for you, for I am not one.
sinoples 6 months ago
@sinoples You are really a Sedevacantist. Thats your Rectification.
Indians feel proud when they marry White Meat. Thats a Funny and True Fact. I am feeling the same for you. Being a BASTARD is not an easy thing.
eraser695 6 months ago
I've attended a Latin Mass for the first time during a friend's wedding. Everything in that Mass told me that the altar is sacred and that there is real presence of our Lord in the form of the Blessed Sacrament. The head cover of the women, the genuflections, and the whole Latin Mass CLEARLY told me that I was attending a holy activity with the Lord's real physical presence. I don't think that it was mere FEELINGS. I believe we should bring back the real essense of the Mass to the faithful.
gi2bull 6 months ago 6
☻/ THEY ARE FUCKING US ANYWAY!!!
/▌
/ \ I WILL NOT TAKE THE JEW VACCINE:)))
RocknRollFansOnly 7 months ago
I can recommend my vids from the Agneskerk (Agneschurch) in Amsterdam, Holland. Served by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, in full communion with the pope. Esp. the Christmass Eve mass is very interesting, certainly for people who have never attended a tridentine mass.
AndreasAntoniusMaria 7 months ago
I don't know why he kept saying "60 years ago". It was substantially less time than that since the Mass changed from Latin.
Estaban333 7 months ago
The Holy Spirit guides the Church so TLM is doubted.
eraser695 9 months ago
It is about the language. Maybe 50 years ago, there may have been a few abuses but they weren't as distracting. Abandoning the Latin was a mistake, and this said from a Cardinal. And at least you know that if the Mass is in Latin, it's Catholic.
BobP863 11 months ago
Both are great! but i think the structure of the TLM is better!
jesusofnazaretdotnet 11 months ago
i just don't understand. vatican says the tridentine rite is the extraordinary form and NO is the ordinary form of worship. When we worhip God, why worship him in the ordinary way? He's God right? shouldn't he be worship in the extraordinary or best way we can? It's like addressing a king by his name instead of addressing him "your highness".
skyeblaze100 1 year ago
Comment removed
lambofgodofwariz 10 months ago
The fruits of Vatican II have not been good and by their fruits you shall know them. There has been a dramatic loss in vocations and modernism has entered the church. Prayers have been taken out, much reverence is lost and the liturgy is very different. I have been to both and I would almost think they were different religions, if I had not been informed beforehand that it was Catholic.
JULIESloveslotr 1 year ago
@JULIESloveslotr What you have seen is not what the council Fathers had in mind. That is the work of Satan trying to ruin a great thing and trying to delay a new Pentecost and the marian era... I have seen The authentic fruit of V2 the way the fathers envisioned it in continuity with our organic development and it is a mighty work. The devil is a divider and deceiver. Prepare for the reform of the refrom, and await the power of God.
GabiAfterHours 1 year ago
@GabiAfterHours Pray The Holy Rosary and as Blessed Virgin Mary promised " in the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph".
CorpusChristi777Amen 10 months ago
@JULIESloveslotr If things were going so well for the Church before the Second Vatican Council, then how come things fell apart so easily, directly after it ended?
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86 You may want to watch the two-part special of Michael Voris (Real Catholic TV) on what happened to the Latin Mass. Please check youtube "Weapons of Mass Destruction 1" and "Weapons of Mass Destruction 2" (I couldn't attach the exact links here)
stmargarettac 11 months ago
@stmargarettac Thank you for directing me to that video. I'll watch it right away. I always liked Michael Voris.
TenderTrap86 11 months ago
I have had the experience of attending a TLM. And yes the respect and reverence is so much greater. I mainly attend N.O. Mass and bring the respect and reverence I have learned from TLM. I recommend anyone to at least experience attending a TLM. I hear from certain Catholics whining about they don't understand Latin and it's so long being most of these Catholics are poorly catechised.. I pray and hope more TLM would be in the dioceses.
johns58w 1 year ago
@johns58w I used to be a TLM devotee, but now I exclusivley attend my parish's "no frills" NO mass. I also dislike hearing Catholics complain about worship in Latin. Muslims use Arabic. Jews use Hebrew. So, why would Catholics have a problem with using Latin? I think the greivence isn't really about the Latin, itself, but more about the worry that the Church is going backwards; losing the "spirit of Vatican II" (I just regergitated :0) because those people think V2 *really* changed the faith.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
His eminence misses the point or avoids it purposely. It's not about the deplorable abuses in the NO mass. The NO is protestantized. It turned the sacrifice of the Mass into a communal meal. I stopped attending that mass about twelve years ago. It almost drove me away from the faith.
The NO end on the ash heap of history. Not in our lifetimes but it will die, as it should. It is a banal, on the spot, modernist contrivance, as opposed to the living organically developed Mass of All Ages
1ndabag 1 year ago
I am just learning about Latin mass and have attended a few. They are absolutely beautiful and my heart feels pain and love at the same time. I love the focus on the eucharist during mass, but I most love that we kneel during communion. A few months ago is when I first knelt during communion... I thought my heart was going to pop out of my chest. An indescribable love in my heart and the tears did not stop flowing from my eyes. I wish it was offered at more convenient times (not just am).
my2torts 1 year ago
@my2torts God bless you. This liturgy saved me as a Catholic. Please pray that it will continue to grow in use and all Priests and their Bishops will embrace it in every diocese.
1ndabag 1 year ago
Let's not forget -each Mass is a miracle.
Hkepfer 1 year ago
Interesting. When it gets down to brass tacks, the comments are dominated by Catholics. Only a good Catholic could laugh when discussing such issues of critical importance.
episcospanky 1 year ago
And if anyone would nevertheless ever dare to attempt any action contrary to this order of ours, given for all times, let him know that he has incurred the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul." Pope Pius V's own words, not mine.
ivanenrile 1 year ago
At no time in the future can a priest, whether secular or order priest, ever be forced to use any other way of saying Mass. And so as to preclude once and for all any scruples of conscience and fear of ecclesiastical penalties and censures, we herewith declare that it is in virtue of our Apostolic Authority that we decree and determine that this our present order and decree is to last in PERPETUITY and can never be legally revoked or amended at a future date. . .
ivanenrile 1 year ago
Sain Pius the V LATIN ROMAN CATHOLIC MASS DECREE QUO PRIMUM JULY 19, 1570: "By this our decree, to be valid IN PERPETUITY, we determine and order that NEVER shall anything be added to, omitted from, or changed in this Missal. .
ivanenrile 1 year ago
The thing is the issue is not even about the use of Latin vs. Vernacular. It's the Liturgy and the prayers that surround the Consecration which give integrity to the mass that is the issue
ivanenrile 1 year ago
Another reason for preferring Latin Mass: linguistic neutrality.
Despite the demand, the Dublin Archdiocese does'nt make Sunday mass available in Irish. The Laity in Artane provide the only Sunday Mass in Irish in Dublin by recruiting priests from throughout the city to take turns in saying mass.
In Britany mass is not in Breton, in Arinze's native Nigeria mass is in English. Throughout the world the mass has become an instrument of linguistic oppression by using the language of conquest.
christianpatriot125 1 year ago
The different options and emphasis on community celebration make the Novus Ordo - even when it is celebrated according to the books, which it seldom is - look like something the people are doing rather than something God is doing. The priest and people face each other, grin, crack jokes, hug, hold hands, etc. It feels like we're talking to each other instead of a third party like God. The TLM is the opposite of all that. It's clear that the focus is on God and His action.
Kev95682 1 year ago
yeah and bring back burning the non roman catholics!
rwm313 1 year ago
Let the Latin Mass surround the world!
conservahunnee 1 year ago
my Gosh this is going all over facebook!
dacatholicbandorgan 1 year ago
Consider the possibility of a Non-Penetential, Non-Sacrificial Ecumenical Namaste Latin Mass - Celebrating the Divinity Within Humanity - Alternatim. I realize this is heresy - but it's where my heart and mind are presently - regarding organized community spirituality in modernity. I presently have difficulty with cowering before a God who requires human sacrifice - repeated symbolically and ritually in the mass - week after week. There are ancient ties which seem to bind as a noose. Namaste.
redletterchurch 1 year ago
The Traditional Latin Mass is the only true Mass, the Novus Ordo Mess is Protestant to the core.
MyBetty111 2 years ago
@MyBetty111 I'm sorry, but the Novus Ordo(in the real Latin) is very, very, very close to the earliest liturgies when carried out the right way. Read the early liturgies, and compare with the new translation when it comes out. Very similar. I'd rather have it closer to the first century than the 15th. Some progressives turn the NO into a "protestant" seeming liturgy. Its not the nature of the NO.
navarroportriple 1 year ago
@navarroportriple No in the past, there were no altar girls, communion in the hand, and other sacrilegious rubbish. You can have your Novus Ordo Clown Mass, we choose to stay faithful to the Tradition
ivanenrile 1 year ago
@ivanenrile I think we should be able to celebrate mass in a way that unifies us through faith and Latin. Customs might be harder to unify. I only think the prayers and readings ought to be in Latin, though. Now, if you are following the antipopes, or are a sedvacantist, I can't convince you...
Ilkeyrion 1 year ago
@ivanenrile I think we should be able to celebrate mass in a way that unifies us through faith and Latin. Customs might be harder to unify. I only think the prayers and readings ought to be in Latin, though. Now, if you are following the antipopes, or are a sedevacantist, I can't convince you...I would like to see an argument as to why the popes since either Pius XII or Blessed John XXIII haven't been as valid as any other and therefore can't make changes to the rites
Ilkeyrion 1 year ago
@Ilkeyrion Council of Trent (a dogmatic council unlike the pastoral Vatican II) says: Although the mass contains great instruction for the faithful people, nevertheless, it has not seemed expedient to the Fathers, that it should be every where celebrated in the vulgar tongue.
ivanenrile 1 year ago
I used to be an altar server and love the latin Mass. I have learnt to love the ON. With the Mass in the vernacular I think this helps participation more fully, helps people/young/new people joining our church to understand the Mass more easily. Good liturgy is important for dialogue with our heavenly Father. Getting obsessed with the Latin can cause us to regard our faith as elitist, our faith as private and personal and deflect from our real mission in the world.
John29270 2 years ago
The Latin Mass must return in ALL the Churches. The priest and the people must face the altar. The priest leads us to Calvary. Receive Communion kneeling and on the tongue! Be an example!
MyGoretti 2 years ago 19
Did you not watch the video? Who are you to make such demands, or proclaim it mandatory at all?
paxcoder 2 years ago
@MyGoretti - AMEN!
vShaede 1 year ago
@MyGoretti The earliest liturgies used to be in the vernacular quite often(not always, I know, but the majority of the time). We need to go back to the beginning, not the 1400's. I love the Latin Mass, and I think it's good to have a few of the Mass parts, for example, the Sanctus, Agnus Dei, and maybe a few others, in Latin very often. But the fact remains that people understand the prayers and can be mentally praying along with the priest when it is in the vernacular. It must be respectful tho
navarroportriple 1 year ago
@MyGoretti though, and I agree that receiving kneeling and on the tongue is great(I do it). I also think the priest and the people should all face the same way toward the altar. But making it in Latin isn't the cure. Teaching people that the Holy Mass is Heaven on Earth and helping them understand how incredible it really is is the cure.
navarroportriple 1 year ago
@MyGoretti I do think that the Second Vatican Council had its reasons, but I do wish we would return to the Latin Mass. However, the Pope is and always will be Christ's representative. We shouldn't question him unless Christ gives a sign saying that that pope has moved away from his reasons.
Ilkeyrion 1 year ago
@Ilkeyrion We can question the pope, resist him even as previous councils, saints, and popes themselves taught. I am not a sedevacantist or a schismatic.
ivanenrile 1 year ago
Yeah, I agree. As there is too much abuse, we crave for Tridentine mass!! I have nothing against the NO mass, but I love it in Latin, with much respect.
Bebekoualy 2 years ago
I have to disagree with the Cardinal. The reason I go to the TLM is because I never felt anything for the NO mass and I had a priest who was very serious, very devout and followed the book and gave the NO mass. I also went to the Franciscans of the Immaculate and they are devout in the saying the NO mass but I have felt nothing compare to the TLM. Even with the abuses in the TLM, they atleast had a large attendance compare to nowadays with NO mass.
syg33142 2 years ago
I don't know any other way to say this, but Mass is not about your feelings. I am thankful you now have the option to choose and I hope you understand my comment was not mentto hurt yoir feelings ;-)
kolbe1019 2 years ago
Mass is to bring us to heavenly things. NO mass did nothing but the TLM has. If Mass doesn't do that, than you get people are just lethargic. Even the Cardinal said "to suit the spirituality more. NO Mass did nothing like that but TLM has and many can concur. Not only that but our late Pope, St. Pius X told us that "we have to associate our hearts with the holy feelings which are contained" within the Mass. And finally, no pope had the right to take away the TLM from anyone!
syg33142 2 years ago 2
@kolbe1019 Hopefully you got message.
syg33142 2 years ago
I see your point and I agree that the Mass is a/the Heavenly Liturgy and that should be made manifest to the best possible degree incontinuity with our tradition. So I agree with the old Mass, but the New Mass is valid and is most beautiful when celebrated in continuity with the old. Ones personal feelings are a large part of what got us into this religious titilation that occurs in many Catholic Self-Worship services. So I think we just use the word feelings in a different sense.
kolbe1019 2 years ago 2
Hey are u Gabriel? the guy that has several rosaries on his wrist? I am catholic. Let's be friends.
I never said that the new mass in invalid. On the contrary to say the new mass in invalid is to say that those ordained within the new mass-priests, bishops, cardinals, and popes are invalid. I am not sedevecantist. I just don't like the NO Mass very much but never will you hear me say to others that NO mass is invalid. I just have my opinions of the NO Mass which will be kept in silence.
syg33142 2 years ago 6
:D Awesome! I didn't think you were against the NO and I didnt think you were a sedevecantis, but I just put that out because alot of them visit this channel and the stuff about the feelings I mention only cause a lot of hippie circus Mass Catholics visit this channel. Sorry ;)
kolbe1019 2 years ago 2
@syg33142 I agree with you. The TLM is very special to me and while the Cardinal does say there were abuses, you cannot compare the abuses to the ones we see now in the NO. The rubrics are so disciplined it would be very hard to make much abuses. I've always thought this way...we are a part of the Roman Rite, therefore we should have a Latin Mass....it only makes sense. The Eastern Church's have kept the beauty of their rites liturgical worship. Rome should do the same.
Rben20 1 year ago
@syg33142 I am an Asian and We and Our forefathers never heard about the Traditional Latin Masses. And its an utter false that TLM has Large Attendance.
eraser695 9 months ago
@eraser695
You shall revise your comment, dear. For I myself I am surprisingly moved by the growing attendance at the Tridentine Mass...in Europe !
(I am living in Asia...certainly is not very common for, of course, the knowledge of latin is not their usual )
sinoples 6 months ago
@sinoples Sorry but what I Said so I Said.
Indian Regional People (Afghans, Pakistanis, Srilankans, Bengalis and Indians) are mostly Converted by St. Thomas the Apostle and were under the Patriarchate of Antioch extremely loyal to the Bishop of Rome and always will be. Later a Jesuit naming St. Francis Xavier introduced Latin Rite as Novus Ordu which was not common in Europe but for Centuries it was Common in the East.
I am not a Sedevacantist but a Catholic. So you may revise your Comments.
eraser695 6 months ago
SSPX is cismatic! SSPX is not catholic!
rhbalduino 2 years ago
That's why the SSPX cannot just give into this. It cannot accept Vatican II! How can one be so hypocritical as to celebrate the real Mass but think the fake mass is acceptable?!
DortAmKlavier 2 years ago
I love Cardinal Arinze! God bless Cardinal Arinze!
I prefer the Latin Mass but of course I do not reject the Novus Ordo Mass if there are no abuses. A good reverent Novus Ordo Mass is great too.
1Hope4All 2 years ago 4
criticism of Paul VI Liturgy and Sacrosanctum Concilium seems to be the ultimate crime for him the new mass is radical and unwarranted departure from the tradition Paul VI Liturgy is deformed which caused me deep pain in the years number of serious liturgist scholars have criticism the Paul VI Liturgy and i can name the scholars but it will make Cardinal Arinze look funny and i will not stop criticizing new mass or the last 50 years god bless
PapaBenedictusXI 2 years ago 3
It was never a new Mass, that is an historical error. It existed before the Council of Trent, as it was celebrated in Rome.
Catholicguy 2 years ago
I do agree when he says the Vatican is not to be challenged. When the second Vatican Council was established, all these satanic changes were not meant to occure. It was the people, not the Council.
When the council came, it was weak to begin with, and so the forces of Satan intervened, and people began taking advantage of the weakness to work in their own stuff under the Church's "nose". The Church is still recovering from that.
I still, however, dislike the newmass and will not attest to it
FatherRayDominick 2 years ago 3
You error here. The council was made up of people. Archbishop Lefebvre along with others warned John XXIII and Paul VI about the changes they were planning and said that these changes would ultimately destroy the mass and the sacraments and cause a horrible loss of faith in the church! The forces of satan were already working as the council began. You dont attend the new mass because you know it's banal and a travesty. I trads didnt challenge the vatican you would have no latin mass now!
kblur198 2 years ago 2
If trads, i meant, sorry.
kblur198 2 years ago
i am quite aware the council was made up of people, but i am saying it was the people of the council, not the Council itself.
Yes, Popes did say that but obviously it happened anyway. The VATICAN is not to be challenged, only the erroring forces within it. To denounce the VATICAN in heretical and non-Catholic.
But yes, if we traditionalistsdid not challenge the wrong, we would have lost our beloved Mass.
TrueRomanCatholic 2 years ago
Do you agree that a catholic should indeed worship in the new mass areans? If you say yes then there is no need for you to pursue the latin mass. If no, then you are basicaly rejecting the popes of vatican II and the last 50 years of the stuff coming from the vatican, which in turn (in some way) is challenging the vatican. I dont reject the vatican today but I dont waste too much on whats going on over there today.
kblur198 2 years ago
Comment removed
weewoody2003 2 years ago
Comment removed
weewoody2003 2 years ago
Comment removed
weewoody2003 2 years ago
Comment removed
weewoody2003 2 years ago
Amen, Amen, Amen!
mikethetiger 2 years ago
It really has nothing to do with spirituality. It has to do with preserving your Faith. Prayers were taken out of the Mass - the first time that ever occurred in the history of the Church! - that has more to do with spirituality methinks...
Catholicguy 2 years ago 3
You: Prayers were taken out of the Mass - the first time that ever occurred in the history of the Church!
Me: Not true. The Tridentine reform itself was a "New Mass" at one time - it was a forced harmonization of missals from all over western Europe which in some case varied tremendously. Most of the changes were in the order of "cutting stuff out."
That said, the contemporary "liturgical reform" was a disaster. Bad taste is bad taste.
KosmicCitizen 2 years ago
St. John Cantius Church in Chicago has workshops on the Latin Mass. You can go to their website at Sancta Missa (dot) org. Their homebase for the workshops are in Mundelien Seminary in Chicago but they have expanded to other states and even across the ocean.
1Hope4All 2 years ago
he is right that priests don't follow the rubrics.
ESEME11 2 years ago
"Because it suits their spirituality more",that's not a good explanation! If a satanic cult suits my spirituality more, should I attend?Unfortunately all conciliar churchmen pretend not to see that the new mass was one of several things that helped create a whole new religion. Now they try to put a band-aid on a tumor saying "they have to be more serious",but the problem is in essence the new ecclesiology deeply contrasting with the catholic teaching of always.For the rest I agree with iotaunum.
TrebleLover 2 years ago
Your argument doesn't really apply, because neither the Latin Mass nor the Novus Ordo violate Christ's teachings, where as a satanic cult does.
UnusFides 2 years ago
Instaurare omnia in Christo
coronatioincaelo 2 years ago 10
@coronatioincaelo per Mariam :)
CorpusChristi777Amen 10 months ago
Cardinal Arinze did not address this issue properly! Why does he suggest that the "latin mass" merely suits our spirituality (our tastes?) better? He should know better. It is not an issue of being disillusioned by the Novus Ordo Mass as a result of Priests saying it incorrectly! The issue is with the changing of the words & the meanings, as well as dropping 70% of the original prayers and orations!
iotaunam1 2 years ago
What part of the demand for the use of the Latin Mass does Cardinal Arinze not understand? Is he serious when he suggests that the priests could sing for us in Latin Once a month? Or that we could hear the Novus Ordo Mass In Latin? He is bound to know, given his Curial position, that the issue is not about the use of latin! We want the origional mass back for theological reasons alone!!!
iotaunam1 2 years ago 5
Cardinal Arinze did not address this issue properly! Why does he suggest that the "latin mass" merely suits our spirituality (our tastes?) better? He should know better. It is not an issue of being disillusioned by the Novus Ordo Mass as a result of Priests saying it incorrectly! The issue is with the changing of the words & the meanings, as well as dropping 70% of the original prayers and orations!
iotaunam1 2 years ago 3
I have been studying the Catholic faith for a while now. I am currently in a protestant church and I am not happy. I plan to convert to Catholocism as soon as I leave for college. I really appreciate these videos. Thanks.
10davjul 2 years ago
I'll be praying for you :)
mikiroony 2 years ago
Can I at least attack the post-Vatican II music?
I man, Marty Haugen?!! Please save us!
KonradAdenauer 2 years ago 5
this comment made me laugh! ^_^ haha, i agree!!
FatherRayDominick 2 years ago
I give creadence to your voice. Much of the music they have in the books is not only from protestent sources many times which does not belong in a catholic church, but the catholic hymns are not well translated. I work for nicholas maria publishers, we have english music but its properly translated and is prayerful in its words not just a feel good praise song.
When I try to show what we have to offer the liberals fight me tooth and nail to prevent me from spreading the use of our music.
manga12 2 years ago
Thank you, Your Eminence, a good response to the world and might I add, a great catechesis to us all!
A new respect for the teaching and a decision.
kadet001 2 years ago
I have heard convincing reasons for using Latin to say Mass and good reasons for using the vernacular, but it seems to me from my reading of the concerns of traditional Catholics, it is about the Form of the Rite, not just the language used, If one can say the new rite in Latin why can't we also have a traditional Rite In the vernacular?
graceisaverb 3 years ago
That is a good point. I have never been to the TLM, but I regularly go to the Anglican Rite Catholic Use Mass. It is very beautiful and from what I can tell it is the TLM but in english.
kolbe1019 3 years ago
@kolbe1019 Have you had a chance to go to a TLM yet? It is not the same as the Anglican Catholic Mass. I've been to an Anglican Catholic Mass in Arlington, TX, and it is mostly like the Novus Ordo with minor differences. It was somewhat traditional where I went. Ad orientem and use of communion rail. Still, it is much more like the Novus Ordo than the Usus Antiquior.
almightydoan 1 year ago
@kolbe1019 If the Novus Ordo is done correctly, following all rebrics and with respect to tradition, you will find that it is a logical development of the Missal of 1962. In fact, I found that the main differences were that priests could con-celebrate a mass and the Last Gospel (John 1:1-14) was dropped. Sadly, I feel that the Requiem Mass is not as good as before, but that said, there is nothing stopping a further development of Liturgy to restore some of what was lost.
hartleymartin 10 months ago
or why not both! like on EWTN - key responses and prayers in Latin, readings and homily in vernacular.
xdeep0 2 years ago
As far as I know, EWTN follows the instructions of the Pauline Mass to the letter, I would love to see it done that way at my parish.
graceisaverb 2 years ago 4
so would I and father agreed to use more of it outside of lent, if I could convince others to request it. but the music department will have no part of it,
The number one excuse I get from people about latin is , NO ONE WILL UNDERSTAND IT. Bull that is why you have a missle to follow along, or they say NO the kids wont know it, Yea that is why you need to teach them then they will, the homily is a teaching point how will the kids know it if you dont even let them see the old mass.
manga12 2 years ago
If the NO mass was eliminated and the TLM reestablished there would be alot of confusion amongst the laity, I know myself having just recently made the switch to the TLM, it is going to take me some time to learn how to pray it. My feeling is that the NO mass can be altered with greater ease than the TLM can be reestablished. and that it can quite easily be made to bespeak the soul of the faith in the same way the TLM is such a voice.
graceisaverb 2 years ago
Said ad orientem(or at least place the cross upon the alter). Received kneeling and on the tongue(this is how the holy father does it). Remove the EEM, and alter girls, restore chanting to the Liturgy of the Eucharist at least. and use a better translation of the missal, which I have heard is being prepared. May God bless His Church and the Holy Father. Amen
graceisaverb 2 years ago
only the reading can be in vernacular in the latin mass PAX
weewoody2003 2 years ago
Comment removed
coronatioincaelo 2 years ago
Brilliantly answered. Amen. Pax +
AICXCNIKAO 3 years ago 3
"Provided that the people do NOT challenge the second Vatican council..."
I love it! Absolutely! We are NOT to attack Vatican II! God bless Pope Benedict for freely allowing the Latin Mass. I love the Traditional Latin Mass.
Thank you Cardinal Arinze. That's right, some Priests abuse the way the Liturgy is supposed to be done. The way some of the Masses are being celebrated in such liberal ways, is NOT the way Holy Mother Church wants it to be done. VII is a NOT a heresy!
1Hope4All 3 years ago
AMEN! I hate when people criticize the 2nd Vatican Council. The mistakes came with people's abuses and too many good people staying quiet as it happened. God bless you and God love you!
kolbe1019 3 years ago