Science of Avatar: Alpha Centauri, Gas Giants & Their Moons

[Winner8501]

Also, about the moons - there seems to be a rule of thumb that says that the more massive a gas giant is, the larger its moons. It seems to apply at least in our Solar System.

You're also correct that gas giants are probably not present in the AC system (fortunately, I say). A and B stars are so close to each other that planet orbits around each star are only stable to around 2-3 AU. If a gas giant sat there, it would probably disrupt orbits of any rocky planets that might have formed.

[RhysGarrish]

i have that book and its brilliant, and i think that the gas giant that pandora orbits could actualy provide the temperature and energy, and even elements neccesary for life

[GlueSniffer4Life]

I haven't seen the movie yet. I've been interested in the design of VentureStar for some time now and have now read stuff on the website you mentioned. Wow, Cameron is almost as anal about the details as Kubrick and cares about science. I knew he was a science geek since Terminator 2 where AI CPU was plausibly described.

[henik9]

I have that book, it's awesome. Explains everything about the Avatar world in soo much detail I love it. AVATAR CONFIDENTIAL

[ZionNeo1]

I haven't seen Avatar yet but...

You are correct, most likely if Pandora did orbit such a planet, conditions could theoretically be too extreme for life to survive. Also there would be weather fluctuations between hot and cold when Pandora orbits the gas giant.

Gas giant planets over 5 - 8 Jupiter masses are considered 'Brown Dwarfs' (between planets and actual stars).

[SimKoning]

Well the jury is still out and whether or not there is life on Europa and I wouldn't rule out ALL life. As far as the gas giant in the movie is concerned, it's supposed to be the size of Saturn. What would be interesting is that Pandora would have two suns, something they didn't show too well in the movie and it would likely be lit most of the time.

[tunkunrunk]

@SimKoning our dear smart scientist has forgotten that not so long it was believed life was impossible at higher pressur,higher temperature and without oxigen ,"deep-sea hydrothermal vents " proved they were wrong .so ,till we make a human exploration(not by space probe) of planets everything is possible into the vast and mysterious universe

[SimKoning]

@tunkunrunk I'm confused: are you making an argument from analogy that because we found extremophile sea life, that life might be able to survive the intense radiation flying around a gas giant? I'm not a scientist, never said I was and I hope I'm not giving the impression that I think I am.

[kinzetik]

Wow, the scientist must have had so much fun working with james cameron on the movie. It musta been like going to work at a scientific playground. Incredible.

[SimKoning]

That's what the artists said. One designer actually said "Cameron actually CARES about what kind of bolts hold the shuttle together!". He also got around the gas giant problem with the help of an astronomer, but I'll save that for another video.

[TheCommentifyer]

i think watchmen supriseingly has the most science behind it

[SimKoning]

uuhhhh what?

[TheCommentifyer]

@SimKoning the makers of watchmen hired some scientists to say thier movie was not "so far fetched" for some reason, it was actually pretty cool to listen to these scientists trying to explain how certian things in the movie were possible.

[SimKoning]

That maybe, but virtually nothing in that movie was possible, including using tachyons to see into the future. Nor are giant blue men that can do magic possible.

[TheCommentifyer]

@SimKoning lol yeah but i meant more of the effort to make it scientific

[SimKoning]

I see

[SimKoning]

Just an fYI cameron had an entire team of scientists work on with him and he has a background in science himself. For example the solar system in the movie was designed by an Astrophysicist

[marq46]

well ther is thor (cant spell) round saton wich thay think might be erath like

[lengthyounarther]

Based on the "20 million a kilo" claim one ton of unobtanium would sell for more than 18.1 billion. If all of a ships 350 ton payload was in unobtanium that is 6.35 TRILLION dollars. I'm assuming that not all 350 tons would be unobtanium, but still its clear its a high enough priority that it seems like much of the 350 tons would in fact be unobtanium. For reference the2008 entire US GDP was just over 14 trillion, though I guess there will have been alot of inflation by next century.

[SimKoning]

That *might* just about cover the cost of making all that antimatter to power the ship in the first place ; ) For example, with today's tech, it would take all of the world's energy for the next 40 years just to fuel one of those starships. But then again, that's what the 150 year time gap is for. By that time, I would hope we would be considred a Type 1 civilization on the K scale.

[SimKoning]

This might help put things in perspective, today one gram of antimatter would cost a 100 quadrillion dollars and would take a billion years to make. Cameron's loop hole is that you need unobtanium to make "cheap" antimatter, and without it, you don't have fleets of starships, you just have a bunch of robot probes.

[lengthyounarther]

Based on the likely expense of of running such a colony, including the transit to and from, I think the kilo price of the unobtanium makes sense. When are you going to make those other reviews?

[SimKoning]

When I get time, tomorrow or the day after.

[lengthyounarther]

Also there are vast amounts of equipment dipicted in the trailers. when viewing an image of a stadium sized bulldozer I have to wonder if they shiped something like that all the way from earth of simply built them on the spot with local materials. Also what are the economic arrangments since both private (corporat) and public (the marines) are dipicted. What is the status on pandora in terms government?

[SimKoning]

Go to Pandorpedia . org and it will explain it in detail. The short version is that it's all built on site (except for complex parts) in much the same way they plan to build bases on mars and the moon. The marines are all former marines, as in mercs.

[lengthyounarther]

Also if jake is sent there because his brother was in the avatar program (but died) It seems strange that they would bother bringing jake out there. I mean sending earth a message enquiring about jake would take at least 4 years to arrive at earth plus another 5 for jake to come to pandora. Do they just wait and see for 9 or 10 years waiting to find out if he's even interested in comming?

[SimKoning]

The have faster than light communication that uses quantum entanglement. Supposedly they used Unobtanium to get around the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. The transmissions are extremely costly and have a very limited bit rate. That was going to be my next vid btw ; )

[lengthyounarther]

Even so its a 5 year wait and see period. Seems like they would simply use somebody already on pandora to grow another avatar. I know its expensive, but isnt flying somebody from earth also pretty damn expensive? Unless Avatars have been in operation for some time, (which might be the case) It seems very circumstantial to think he arrives just in time or that they would put the program on hold to wait for his arrival.

[SimKoning]

There is a one in a billion chance that they can find someone who has DNA that can be translated into the genetics of the Na'vi (which isn't even DNA based) so Jake represents a chance for the RDA to save a crap load of money. Also there are 12 starships that are constantly making trips to Pandora and back. And yes it is very expensive, which is why they are willing to displace/kill the only known sentient species of ET to get to the Unobtanium. The Avatar program has been in use for years.

[lengthyounarther]

Yeah, I've been reading the pandoripedia articles since last posting. I especially like the "euthinize the employies whenever theres a problem" tendency. They must pay people an awfull lot to go there seeing how long a tour of duty takes and how high the risk of death is. Not to mention the fact that unobtanium takes presidence on the voyage home.

[SimKoning]

BTW the movie has been getting 5 stars and a 100% on rotten tomatoes =) Now I can relax a bit. The success of this movie is important to me, because it's vindication of all my pissing and moaning about Science Fiction not having enough science in it. For example, I was getting a little tired of planets that look like Arizona or Alaska, and starships that look like space boats.

[lengthyounarther]

Thats assuming that its success is due to its fairly high science content. BTW looking into this move I stumbled accross a SCFY novel called Forever war. I dont read much SCFY, but from my understanding its something of a classic (now due for a movie) that deals with how humans cope with the time dilation that occures from faster than light travel.

[SimKoning]

Most people won't realize it, but it is a big part of it. The entire movie is a product of Jim reading thousands of scifi novels, working with NASA, doing deep sea dives etc.. The depth, richness and realism of the world is all drawn from observations of nature. I guess my point is, directors do not need to "dumb down" science fiction, this is also why District 9 was a success, it had a sort of depth and reality to it born of a Director's love for science and science fiction (Blomkamp).

[pisces196949]

yeh I loved district 9 because of that. great movie.

[SimKoning]

Regarding the Forever War, I've read it and it's the best Military Science Fiction novel I have ever read. It's also the most realistic portrayal of space warfare for it's time. Let's put it this way, space battles take several weeks in the book.

[lengthyounarther]

Reading the summary I was most interested in how such enourmous time elapses that society radically alters. I'm wondering how this effect bears out in Avatar. Granted its not as far in terms of distance and time, but still saying "honey I'm off to work" followed by a 16 year shift has got to effect the functioning of the whole affair.

[SimKoning]

Oh it's trip, it takes place over a thousand years. If you want something more space opera/star warsish but with a high level of realism read the Algebraist by Ian Banks. I want to post a video on the future of space opera minus warp drive and hyperspace, but my computer is being damned slow... Avatar and District 9 give me very high hopes for the future of science fiction. There are some amazing sci fi stories out there that people don't know about, like the Forever War.

[lengthyounarther]

I'm glad you got this book, because I'm interested but cant get the book. A couple questions.  Was Alpha century selected as the solar system because it is the closests to earth and hence the most practicle to be colonized? Are other solar systems being visted? How does the colony cope with the time dilation effects from the 5 years spent traveling there at close to the speed of light? I

[SimKoning]

The only reason Alpha Centauri A was such an early (almost too early) target for human colonization was because of Unobtanium, that's it. It's a room temp superconductor that normally should not exist. It allows for lightweight starships, monorails, handheld rail guns (not shown) and superluminal communications (explained above). No other planets or moons have been explored (except for probes) outside of Pandora and Polyphemus.

[lengthyounarther]

And please bear in mind, this film looks awsom (I'm planning on seeing a 3D IMAX showing). I'm just curious with how they deal with these questions.

[SimKoning]

As I said, there is a "ocean moon" orbiting Polyphemus that shows signs of life as well. There is also Gaia which is basically Earth's twin. It orbits ACB. Probably locations for sequels.

[SimKoning]

I should point out that some of this info is in the game not the book.

[MiokovicD]

Tnx for explanation!

I am unable to get that book so you are valuable source of info.

[SimKoning]

Was there anything else you want to know or have a question about?

[MiokovicD]

I am good for now. Thanks. Maybe after I see movie.