Taoist Meditation - Lao Tzu vs. Chuang Tzu

[FeelingFreshSon]

I always thought that the Buddhists thought "no, we cannot align ourselves with the will of the universe" whereas Taoists think otherwise..and yes spontaneity is actually really hard hahahaha

[Kostly]

But, always, Chuang is contained in Lao. If that is not true, then why would CHuang so revere Lao? Just as all is contained within the Tao. So, I guess, I was also contained in LAo Tse. My consciousness was contained within LAo Tse's because I so identify, at a primal level, with the wisdom of Lao AND Chuang Tse. All is contained within the TAo and all knowledge can be extracted from it. But, all the answers will never yield from it. That's not to say we can't have fun trying to get them!

[Kostly]

Hmmph, I guess I'm of the school of Chuang Tse. But, now I think too much. So I guess I'm becoming Lao Tse. Maybe as I'm growing I'm transitioning from CHuang to Lao, Young to old. But, Chuang Tse is primacy, alpha. Lao Tse is, I guess, the result. Sort of like the evolution of the universe. At first God *yes, I believe in God....fully a taoist sensibility, though let it rip with the. Then things stabilized and were very measured, predictable, relatively at ease, flowing.

[SanguineBullet667]

Why in the hell would anyone think it's a nice idea to let go of the world? We are in the world for a finite time and better take advantage of it, not disregard life's sometime corrupting joys. Sex, Alcohol, Passionate love, all make life amazing and interesting. Only boring people think sitting in the forest alone just staring at the trees is a good way to use your time.

[emdeewee]

Somehow this man makes me think of Tom Cruise in Magnolia. By the way, I don't see how Lao zi is more conservative, and Zhuang Zi is more liberal. Strange comparison. In fact, to me, a big part of Lao Zi is also is a ridicule of Confucius, who was supposed to be the real conservative cowboy. I do think Zhuang ZI is a bit more playful, but he still serves the Way.

[les555qq]

这人对老子庄子的介绍还不充足,真是太奇怪,

我们中国人没有什么简单的看法, 而且他满怀信心也没道理

他讲花花的,真实的没有,要开门见山才对

老外去大陆觉得马上变成哲学家

[juliantreidiii]

@les555qq Is this a good Translation? This is not an adequate description of Chuang Tzu Lao Tzu. It's very strange. Our Chinese language does not have such a simple simple viewpoint, moreover he is full of confidence but does not have the truth, there is no truth he speaks. He must come straight to the point only then would he be right. Foreigners that go to the mainland pretend to immediately became philosophers or think they became philosophers .

[underdonkey5]

yeh, one of the big contrasts I've seen is between things like buddhism, denies passion, whereas Kierikagaard believed that passion was important for life.

I think Chuang Tzu, very much like Aristotle, was almost always just trying to break down our concepts of reality and saying "whatever you think, you're wrong" and thus there is a fluidity and spontaneity that comes naturally, but cannot be bound. Sometimes things are measured, sometimes passionate.

[knoxvilleguy2]

@underdonkey5 - Buddhism teaches moderation rather than denying passion altogether OR being a hedonist or glutton. At least that's been my understanding. & mindfulness is a significant concept rather than " just let it rip " as Bruce Frantzis says of ZhuangZi / Chuang Tzu.

& if I understand correctly, Zen Buddhism also incorporates elements of Lao Tzu's teachings, presumably from the days of Chan Buddhism. After 25 + years of studying Taoism & Buddhism, there's much I don't get.

[fntime]

@underdonkey5 You think too much and you are wrong thinking!

Kierkagaard was the same way! This path doesn't offer insight

or happiness, but maybe these are things you are not interested

in!

Your thought process is very similar to Herman Goring!

Have you bought your jackboots yet? Or just gained weight?

No, well you will~

[ChenStyleJohn]

"LaoZi loved a highly measured life.

ZhuangZi was a fan of... just let it rip."

:o)

Awesome.

[truevoiceofsanity]

@ChenStyleJohn Awesome but I disagree. Barring the fact we don't know if either was real or no. Lao-tse for example spoke considerably about adaptibility. That is one of many elements that could color this idea of one being conservative and the other an anarchist. That said, i want to listen at another level

[gejost]

@ChenStyleJohn Probably its a massive simplification tho. Even as he said, Chuang-zi also lived a "measured life.

[Neuromance27]

@gejost Exactly... it was a measured amount of how much to let go. To do anything at all is a measured life, even the choosing of doing "nothing" Pointing fingers and saying look this guy was "blah blah blah" Ooo but this other guy was "blah blah BLAH! Which I agree with more" Measured. There is not right and wrong in this reality, nor in ways of perceiving it, but we create it still. It's all part of the game.

[schwihi]

Thank You Bruce