The Proemium of the Iliad (in Greek)

[NENDOSIA]

Good job on remembering those lines and your love for Homer. I liked the set up the recitation in Ancient Greek but the pronounciation sounded like German or something.

[bolxes91]

That's an awful pronunciation... I mean, we don't exactly know who did the ancient greek pronounced, but he could have respected the accents. And it is "oionoisi te pasi" instead of what he says...

[novissimus]

@bolxes91:

Although 'pasi' is indeed what is found in the manuscripts, 'daita' has its support as a variant reading dating quite far back. I prefer it simply because it produces the more vivid image and it alliterates nicely with the rest of the line. :) I'll admit I flattened the accents into oblivion, but this was a spur-of-the-moment recording and I was shouting to make sure my camera's mini-microphone would pick up the sound.

[Nassieful]

@VOLKO1:Iliada:(w)ilios is a another name for troja(taruisa and wilusa) and sun(h-ilios in greek; in ancient time wilios).Homer means with the iliada the willpower of achilles like the sun(heuliau in cymraeg).The story of the iliad was the angry of achilles.

[Nassieful]

Homer and herodot(name of my video) tell us the truth about the trojan-war..!

[VOLKO1]

What is the meaning ov the word "Iliada" in greek?

[shie5175]

Fantastic! I appreciate the difference in pronunciation. Not only do I find it more attractive, but I agree that the language has significantly evolved.

[samanthajanepink]

That's beautiful! I tried reading Homer out loud but I never knew if I should let the longer syllables create their own stress or if I should give them extra emphasis. As a "bar-bar-ian" I couldn't figure out if I should read it like a line of iambic pentameter in English with its five stresses or if the longer and shorter syllables of the Greek hexameter should play off of-- as a kind of counter-music-- the acutes, graves and circumflexes, with a raising and lowering of the voice.

[novissimus]

Yup -- I learned my Homer from Pharr, Pharr has daita, and thus daita is what is in my memory. Plus, it alliterates with Dios and makes for a more interesting mental image than the colorless pasi! ;)

[firezdog]

I see he reads "oionoisi te daita" instead of "oionoisi te pasi"

[logonax65]

Classical Greeks never had used the pronunciation known as 'erasmic".

[DanVilAl]

Of course not, that's why there is a "reconstructed pronunctiation" nowadays, neither erasmian, neither modern.

And also, there were probably many pronunctiations according to the different dialects.

[edu500ac]

I have a suggestion to improve your pronunciation. Homeric Greek has no palatal T and D, like English. T and D are dental: you should pronounce them pressing your tongue against the frontal teeth, not against the palate. Italian provides a model on how to pronouce these letters. The only aspirate letters are Theta, Phi, Chi, and Rho; therefore try not to aspirate Pi, or Kappa. Finally, the rithm should be given by a sequence of long and short syllables; Homeric Greek has no intensity accent.

[482c]

I could be wrong but was not pi originally "pfhi" an aspirate?

[Arissef]

So what's the point of Φ then? No, Π was plain /p/ and Φ was /ph/.

[482c]

To Arissef: Something has happend to my computer--did I say something about "Phi"--I did a guess but I said Icould be wrong. . I will ask my teacher--I don't remember I do know some consonanats were aspirated--or "plosives" but I will check. I pronounce Pi as /P/ and Phi

as /PH/ Maybe Pi was "plosive" something like "Puh" with an breath. But I am no expert--I will check OK?

[minus273cn]

Well, pi is a unaspirated plosive, like the p in "spy", or indeed, like the b in American English "buy", while phi is like the p in "pie".

[VilleB123]

what an excellent language, i wish i could read ancient greek. the finest civilisation in all the glory of the world.

[482c]

I have been working on it for over ten years--I am not very good but I did read the Odyssey! It is worth it Axion esti!

[eismakedon]

Μμιλας για τα φωνηεντα η τα συμφωνα? Για τα φωνηεντα νομιζω πως σιγοθρα οι ερασμιοι εχουν δικαιο, για τα συμφωνα, πιστευω πως ολοι οι Νεοελληνες τα προφερουμε ιδια η τουλαχιστον παρομοια. Οι Ποντιοι λενε το χ σαν SH, το χερι το λενε SHερσι'ν. To Σ αλλαζει απο περιοχη σε περιοχη, αλλα τα αλλα ελαχιστα διαφοροποιουνται.

Σιγουρα οι Κυπριοι κρατησανε τα διπλα συμφωνα, το λλ πχ, οπως και το ν που αλλοι απο εμας τα χασαμε.

[eismakedon]

learning modern Greek is a different issue, the ones who come and stay some time in Greece get taken by the culture and learn it, the others abroad see ancient greek as others see computer science, as something more intelectually sterile. It is their loss but do not blame them for it. The beauty of ALL modern Greek dialects (and Tsakonika!) is that they are the true continuation of the classic Greek and Homeric. We still say Ηλιος, Ερωτας, Αγαπη, Κορη, Μωρο, Παιδι... pronounced a bit differenly.

[eismakedon]

We had (ο) o-mikron pronounced as o and (ω) o-mega pronounced as double o-o.

ι was as today, but η was more like double ee, υ was between i and oy, οι was like with dilytika in between, υι the same like almost as oui.

You can see this in differences in modern greek accents: most greeks we say psino/roast, but the roumeliotes say pseno.

On the other hand all modern greek accents have the same consonants from Pontus to Peloponnesos to southern Italy and Crete or Cyprus.

[nixter888]

..well THEY WILL NEVER EXCEPT IT ,because is A DISTORTION!!..GO TO THE VIDEO ..Hymn of Gaia,to hear the right pronunciation!..and learn!!!

[nixter888]

ECCEPT

[Papposilen]

Hello Rick

Nice vid, I once did myself a little homeric recital at Priene. As for the pronounciation: You are right, ancient Greek was pronounced different from modern Greek. Hardly any Greek will accept this, even some of the greek archaeologists I met at excavations didn't.

For a scientific approach, you may visit the Internet page of Stefan Hagel, university of Vienna; there's a video at Youtube, too. Hagel sings Akhilleus for Achilleus.

Greetings from Germany, University of Berlin

[polychronistheo]

FYI today's pronunciation goes back to 3d century BC at least & has been the same since, with very little change. If Greeks insist on their pronunciation it's 'cos it's the closest thing to the classic one & is far from beeing as grotesque as the erasmian one

[polychronistheo]

Yes the pronunciation has changed but not that much in the course of 2000years, deal with it. Erasmian pronunciation & refusing to learn modern Greek only makes things complicated for who wants to stugy ancient GK, but what do I know, I'm only Greek & a classics teacher

[eismakedon]

Saying that the pronunciation has hardly changed does not make sense. There were many dialects in ancient Greece as there are many now, from Pontian to South Italian Greek and from Cypriot to Cretan.

The vowels have definitely evolved. The diphthongs lost their double sound, the double letters too. I think the Erasmian is off the mark on the consonants: modern Greeks pronounce them probably very close to the original ancient consonant sounds, with some exceptions.

[polychronistheo]

what I mean is that the modern pronunciation is the closest thing to the ancient one, why is it so hard for foreign classicists to accept this & the fact that the erasmian pronunciation is really ludicrous ? Jesus

[nixter888]

WHY DID YOU TAKE ONE OF MY COMMENTS out?..perhaps you realize that i was right about what i wrote?..and you did not like that?

[novissimus]

No, I just thought I'd cut our conversation down to something brief. The pronunciation of Homeric Greek is better studied in the scholarly literature than on a YouTube page.

What is historically accurate is separate from what pleases anyone's ear. The one is a linguistic matter, the other aesthetic. Regarding linguistics, I'll simply ask whether you've read Vox Graeca yet. As for the aesthetics, de gustibus non disputandum est.

[novissimus]

Furthermore:

I relish the sound of modern Greek. I also am interested in recovering what the ancient speech might have sounded like. I chose the latter for this recording.

FYI, I will likely delete these new comments of yours and mine soon unless they add something essential.

Eirene soi!

[nixter888]

EIREINE SE SAS! the Greeks know!!!believe me!!!!

[kiptw]

Considering how much English has changed in just a couple hundred years, it's entirely within reason to believe that Ancient Greek wouldn't sound exactly like modern Greek.

It's certainly convenient, just as most people read Shakespeare with modernized spelling. We're free to choose, though.

Thanks for posting this. It answers a question I've thought about off and on for several decades.

[nixter888]

you don't have to answer that! and i am sorry about the bother! but i believe that you are wrong to pronounce the words like that! i will not post here next time!,,,XAIRETE!

[nixter888]

it's better if you learn the right pronunciation!...you sound German!

[novissimus]

This is a fairly standard pronunciation of classical Greek. It has harder consonants and more variety in vowels than modern Greek. It had a pitch accent, too, which in retrospect I should have tried to do. I do know modern Greek pronunciation and love the sound of it, but it didn't seem appropriate for a recitation among the ruins of ancient Ionia. Maybe next trip I'll use modern Greek. I am not Greek, of course, but Greeks have told me I have a pretty good accent (for the modern language!)

[nixter888]

I respect that you are trying to speak the ancient Greek SER! but how do you know the pronunciation was like that? WE Greeks PRONOUNCE THE words the same way as the modern Greek!AND IT REALLY SOUNDS GOOD! NO GREEKS ever in the plays in ancient theaters are using the theory of Erasmus!

[nixter888]

AND I THINK it's an error to try and change the authenticity of this great language! if it was pronounced like that the Greeks would know about this!since they NEVER stop speaking this great language! the koinh has being spoken all most unchanged for two thousand years!and nobody ever pronounce it differently!

[novissimus]

Of course Greek pronunciation has changed. Why did the ancient Athenians use eta, upsilon, iota, epsilon-iota, and omicron-iota if they really only represented one vowel sound as in modern Greek? Why would the Romans have transliterated epislon-upsilon as "eu" if it was pronounced "ef"?

This is not the place for a discussion of the reconstructed pronunciation of ancient Greek. I would recommend Vox Graeca by Allen or Daitz's Pronunciation of Ancient Greek: A Practical Guide.

[minarw]

Im greek,and I agree with u that greek has changed.u can tell since in modern greek theres no different in sayin "hmeis" or "ymeis".get over it patriotes.but 2 points: as for the "eu",in modern greek it does not sound always as ef,it depends on what comes next. it may sound as "eu", as "ef", or even as "ei" and so on.

and two: even though we can, indeed, be sure that greek phonology has changed, we CANNOT be (and I guess we'll never be) sure about how it really DID sound. its all just guessing.

[polychronistheo]

Re paidi mou ennoeitai oti alliws profere o Platwn ta ellhnika alla auth h erasmiakh profora kai to gegonos oti arnountai na mathoun nea ellhnika pou tha kathistouse ta pragmata toso pio apla me skotwnei...

[eismakedon]

adelfe, den eheis dikaio. oson afora tous difthogous oi arhaioi den tous elehgane tsi, tio na kanoume? αυτος γινεται αΦτος στα νεα, ενω στα αρχαια προφεροταν α(ου)τος. In the Pontian dialect αυτος is avoutos which tells you that is was aoutos, then the v came in between. The pontian avouton to pedin is closer to the ancient than afto to pedi. In Ancient it would have been: a(ou)ton to pa i dion. The ancients did not pronounce the iota the eta the ypsilon and the oi and the ui all the same.

[minarw]

egw h8ela apla na pw oti den einai aparaithto sta nea ellhnika to au ginetai af. mporei na ginei kai av, opws leme "aura", h ai, opws leme "aylos".

[eismakedon]

Καλα αδελφε, αυτο ειναι αυτονοητο. Στα αρχαια ομως το Υ ειταν καπως σαν το Γαλλικο Υ που το λενε και υ-γκρεκ. Δηλαδη καπου αναμεσα ι και ου. Αλλιως λεξεις σαν ο υιος δεν εχουν νοημα. Προφεροταν περιπου σαν Ο ΟΥ-Ι-Ο-Σ. Το Υ (ΟΥ) εγινε στα νεα μας Ελληνικα Γ ο γιος, περιπου οπως η ΟΥΑΣΙΝΓΚΤΩΝ γινεται ΓΟΥΑΣΙΝΓΚΤΩΝ.

[polychronistheo]

kala, ola auta einai autonohta, apla pisteuw oti h pio fusikh profora einai h nea ellhnikh..Apo 'kei kai pera, thewrw methodologiko lathos h ellhnikh glwssa na meleteitai apo mia skopia, nea h arxaia monon..Kai tha kathistouse ta pragmata eukolotera gia tous xenous..

[polychronistheo]

Parepiptontws, osoi Galloi sumfoithtes mou dexthkan na diabasoun ta keimena me thn nea profora, sebomenoi ton tonismo kai ton ruthmo ths phrasews, eipan oti epitelous emoiaze me glwssa ki oti eixe logikh to pragma. An epimenw einai epeidh pisteuw oti h swsth profora metraei sthn orthoterh katanohsh autwn twn keimenwn, oxi apo ethnikismo

[eismakedon]

vevaia ehei fysikotita, afou einai zwntani glwssa...egw pethainw na gnwriza pws akougotane ta arhaia mas. Oi Latinoi legane pws akougontas enan Athenaio na milaei, eihe tosi mousikotita i profora tou pou kai min katalavainontas tin glwssa tou se epeithe.

[polychronistheo]

Poios suggrafeas to leei ; Mporeis na mou dwseis thn akribh parapomph sto keimeno kai to edafio parakalw ; Euxaristw

[eismakedon]

poios syggrafeas leei ti akrivws, den katalava, gia poio pragma anaferesai? ehw graapsei arketa pragmata kai den xerw se poio anaferesai.

[eismakedon]

Και ΚΑΛΟ ΠΑΣΧΑ Ε! Εδω ακομη δεν ξεκινησαμε...μεσημερακι!

[polychronistheo]

sto oti eleges oti oi Rwmaioi elegan oti h profora ths ellhnikhs glwssas htan polu mousikh..

[eismakedon]

einai ena viblio pou to ehw stin ellada (twra eimai stin ameriki) to eiha agorasei stin saloniki gyro sto 1985, kai legotane Romaioi kai Ellinismos i kati tetoio. Poly kalo viblio, alla twra pou?

[minarw]

ayto pou les to exw skeftei polles fores, pragmatika! ti wraia pou tha htan na mporousa na mpw se mia mhxanh tou xronou kai na gyrisw sthn athina opws htan tote, xwris na mporw na kanw tipota fysika, mono na dw thn agora, na tous vlepw kai na tous akouw na milane.... tipota allo den thelw...

[polychronistheo]

kala milame porwsh ! ki egw to idio thelw edw kai kairo.. alla h pio trellh mou fantasiwsh einai na brethei enas papuros h ena xeirografo kai na xanabroume me thn mia 5-5 tragwdies tou Aisxulou h opoiodhpote allo keimeno..Oneira..alla pou xereis

[vereno1986]

Kalôs ta tou Hómerou rhêmata élexas!

[novissimus]

Efcharisto!