Koran / Islam religion about evolution and life in space

[FinnishConvert]

I am only human,and "fire without smoke" might not have anything to do with stars and so evolution/alien life.

But:

21:30 "Have not those who disbelieve known that the HEAVENS and the EARTH were joined together as one united piece (/as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder (/then We parted them)? We made from water every living thing, Will they not then believe?"

Big Bang. Continents. Life (animals and humans) from water. Humans from "dirt" (food chain -> also previous species)

[FinnishConvert]

Every drop of sperm on our long gone (non-homo sapiens) ancestors has been grown from dirt of earth, food from it. And Koran also says that we have been created also from sperm, and from "dirt", and from water.

It is like trying to teach evolution to a children.

And children we are to Him.

[FinnishConvert]

This is for all disbelievers. World is not 6000 years old. This has nothing to do with Genesis.God is behind those laws of physics, as we (and I) believe. Every living thing is not made of water.

What that passage of Koran meant was that life EVOLVED in / from water. It BEGAN on water. So life is MADE from water. And also most of our bodies are water, but it has nothing to do with this passage.

[FinnishConvert]

I am only human,and "fire without smoke" might not have anything to do with stars and so evolution/alien life.

But:

21:30 "Have not those who disbelieve known that the HEAVENS and the EARTH were joined together as one united piece (/as one unit of creation), before We clove them asunder (/then We parted them)? We made from water every living thing, Will they not then believe?"

Big Bang. Continents. Life (animals and humans) from water. Humans from "dirt" (food chain -> also previous species)

[FinnishConvert]

Every drop of sperm on our long gone (non-homo sapiens) ancestors has been grown from dirt of earth, food from it. And Koran also says that we have been created also from sperm, and from "dirt", and from water.

It is like trying to teach evolution to a children.

And children we are to Him.

[FinnishConvert]

This is for all disbelievers. World is not 6000 years old. This has nothing to do with Genesis.God is behind those laws of physics, as we (and I) believe. Every living thing is not made of water.

What that passage of Koran meant was that life EVOLVED in / from water. It BEGAN on water. So life is MADE from water. And also most of our bodies are water, but it has nothing to do with this passage.

[19lfm12]

That does not follow logically. Finnish Convert has very clearly explained that terms in Scripture were intended to apply to the ppl of the time when they were written, and to later times as well. This in no way of itself if proof that is is "not the word of nor involving the intervention of god or gods".

Herdsmen of the 7th century AD knew nothing of nuclear reactions! It had to comprehensible in their mileau.

[FinnishConvert]

Such as?

Come on, you then try and give description/term for goat herders who think that stars in the sky are small spirits of their ancestors.

And who do not have any of terminology we have in languages of that date.

And then make them believe that also, so that whole religion will not stay on 7th century, but will reach also 21st century, where people like us are still arguing about that your term/description.

Just try.

[FinnishConvert]

About terminology and how to fit that to be valid in different periods of time:

Koran said that sun "swims" in the sky. Back then they thought that around earth, now we know that it goes around centre of our galaxy with unbelievable speed.

"Swimming" is pretty good description if you think about that "space of Einstein", where heavy mass objects curve space, creating kind of hole where objects (planets) go around on edges as a ball in roulette ring...

[FinnishConvert]

21:31

"And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance."

Those VALLEYS like in western China, are such as Silk Road. Islam came through there to China.

It does not say that earthquakes would not happen AT ALL, there was some even in times of prophet, like in Syria 6th century, claiming hundreds of thousands people, so why would he say so?

[FinnishConvert]

Shape of a mountain always has bigger mass under ground (like icebergs under water), and shape of mass going kilometres underground is like mountains upside down pointing to centre of earth. And where mountains are born, there continental plates are in collision, resulting as mountains forming between plates making collisions softer and reducing earthquakes (in numbers and Richters) a lot.

[FinnishConvert]

2:29

It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

For me this does not tell in what order heaven and earth were created. And for you I could say that do not try to "think" like God (about time/order of things), it will not work. "Seven heavens" could even mean our seven layers of atmosphere that came after earth was formed...

[FinnishConvert]

So did Allah create earth before heavens?

First of all, about these "days", I show couple of passages:

22:47 "And surely a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you number."

70:4 "To Him ascend the Angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years."

So time is relative, just as Einstein told us. And so is direction of time, even backwards. It can be seen in Koran at least in 32:5,17:52,10:45 and 23:112-114 (we were on earth "day or part of a day").

[FinnishConvert]

For example near black hole or huge stars time would appear to go slower for us.

041.009

Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two periods? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds.

041.010

He set on the (earth), mountains standing firm, high above it, and bestowed blessings on the earth, and measure therein all things to give them nourishment in due proportion, in four periods, in accordance with (the needs of) those who seek (Sustenance).

[FinnishConvert]

41:11

Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

41:12

So He completed them as seven firmaments in two periods, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.

[FinnishConvert]

In 2:29 it might have described creating earth and then seven atmosphere layers of it, here it could describe creating layers of universe, ours (with stars) as that lower one.

[FinnishConvert]

But you got the point anyway.

Reaction is reaction, no matter is it nuclear or oxygen-based.

Fact is, if you seek fire withouth smoke, stars are it. It is pretty good description.

Basicly stars are pretty much like fire, hot and bright, and even with same color.

Start reading between lines.

[Ethrock]

Stars don't burn. Stars don't combust. They wouldn't produce smoke even with oxygen available. Stars perform nuclear reactions. This is well known.

[FinnishConvert]

I should probably remind you that there was no such word as "nuclear fission" or any of that kind 1400 years ago. Not in arabic or in any other language. It has come up only recently as a term. Human made term.

So "smoke without fire" is still VERY valid here.