The Benneton B194, was made specifically for Schumacher driving style, and the Williams FW15 and FW16 for the driving style of Nigel Mansell.Even so, Senna got 3 poles against Schumacher in 1994...had continued living Senna, he got pole here too...
Senna was probably better around Monaco than Schumacher to be honest. But if Senna was around, even he would probably no beat this lap. Schumacher's lap here was just one of those laps around monaco where you get in the zone and nail it. Like Senna in 1988.
@LeonWgner no he didnt, 1 sec in Brazil and 3 tenths in Aida. Schumachers teammate was 2 seconds off the pace which suggests the benetton wasnt the best car. i think they were relatively even.
@clay111 Apparently whilst the car was very quick, Verstappen, Herbert and Letho all found it very difficult to find the performance limit of the B194. They'd either be well within it, or would go over it and crash. Schumacher himself later said it was a difficult car to drive.
Yes, the Benetton that year was the best car. The team actually cheated with taking a spring away when the did refuel in the pits. Furthermore, the electronics in Benetton 1994 had a traction control. V8 vs v10. You can win if you cheat.
@wibsonluis just watch schumachers onboard of his in magny cours in 1994, you cant do this without cheating or jump starting. and...."her" car? of course ayrton is the best.
McLarenMercedes - you're incredibly thick. You cannot compare how Michael is driving against Rosberg right now. He's no where near the confidence and speed he had back in the 90s. It's going to take time, maybe he wont ever be as quick as he used to be.
do people realis that mika was 9 tenths behind and damon was 1.5 seconds behind!!!!! and his team mate Lehto was FOUR seconds slower!!! this surely was more dominant than what senna did in monaco to prost in 88
please. Damon Hill was sitting in the Williams which was neigh on undrivable at the start of the 1994 season. only in the mid season did they improve it enough
both Senna and Hill complained in the first few races of 1994.
The thing is the McLaren Honda was the best car by far in 1988, and Prost was the most succesful driver of all time when Senna became his teammate. Lehto was no Prost thank you very much. Last time I check Prost won in Monaco in 84-85-86, so he knew a thing about Monaco.
Hakkinen was driving the McLaren-Peugeot, which hardly was a top car in 1994. The engine was powerful but unreliable and had a narrow powerband, which together with the underdeveloped McLaren chassis of 1994, hardly was a match for Ferrari even, much less Benetton and Williams.
Gilles Villeneuve was seconds faster than Didier Pironi in 1981 too in Monaco. Pironi was very fast himself. The 1981 Ferrari was not the best car. The 1994 Benetton had the best chassis. Even Schumacher himself said it.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
You didn´t even saw a single race of the 94 season, so please STFM.
Yet the sound of the V12 Ferrari was enough to keep the game up...please dont take your head away from football
The only thing that sucked in 94 was Senna´s assassination (snipper shot) at Imola, and the artificial non-competition between a banned MS and the (1,2 sec slower than Senna) brit-crap represented by Damon Hill
Also Senna´s masterplan assassination came with a perfect free gift, namely big publicity for F1
exactly! that sniper shot theory is the dumbest thing I've heard about senna's death. also, it was a suspension piece attached to a wheel that killed him I think.
Senna putting the Lotus-Renualt on pole 7 times in 1985 and 8 times in 1986, against much better cars from McLaren, Ferrari and Williams proves he had driving skills from another world.
Senna nearly won the Monaco GP driving a bad Toleman-Hart against Prost in a McLaren-TAG Porsche
then why is Rosberg outdriving and outscoring him easily?
did you call Senna's Donington win in the rain "lucky"?? That alone was testimony to his incredible skill, and widely seen as one of the best race wins of any driver ever in the history of motorracing.
Senna had Prost as a team mate and beat him. Prost was a 4 time champion. What champion did Schumacher ever have as team mate?
Fangio is the God of F1, thank you very much.He won 5 title in 7 years and the last when he was 46 years old.
AIDA (2nd race that season) is also slow and still Senna grabbed the pole easily. Remember that Senna is the king of Monaco, he would likely get at least 10 poles that season IF that crash didn´t happen. No doubt MS is great and his teammates were useless, though.
The sad fact is that we lost the chance of seeing another hot rivalry, just like Senna/Prost from 88 to 90...
Bullshit - the williams was unstoppable in 94. Verstappen even was 2 seconds slower than Hill, Senna, and his team mate in the same car. Which means Schumacher was incredible to find 2 seconds in that car, he was the one with the worse car, not Senna..
@Anime998877 BULLSHIT, MS teammates verstappen and herbert where horrible and thats why they didn't last in f1. if hill was in a bennetton he probably would be close. off course shumi is outstanding, but Senna 's team mate became even world champion..and those useless MS teammates only drivers to be forgotton.
What idiocy. Verstappen lasted 10 years in F1 and Herbert lasted 11. Yea - they suck balls. Hill became world champion because he had no competition in 1996 - the williams was unstoppable.
Verstappen had no TC in 1994 in order to reduce risks..had Verstappen qualified top 3 then it would be obvious that they ve been cheating...Briatore is not that stupid
Benneton was light and agile, perfect for narrow races like monaco, no wonder that schumi was able to do ´wonders´. Too bad senna had to drive a fat williams in his last season :(
@kouzouka you are a fucking idiot mate, you keep comparing schuey to senna at monaco, why don't you do a comparison at somewhere like Suzuka or why don't you just look at the stats, Schumis got nearly as many wins as Senna and Prost put together and has more than double than Senna himself. Then look at the fastest laps, then look at points scored I could go on and on, stats never lie Schumi the greatest
@kouzouka For pole yes,but In the two races against each other in 94 he was beating him on the track.And it was the start of his 3rd season in F1
His first two full seasons he finished 3rd then 4th in the championship,he was awesome.
Regarding comments about the bennaton.the car was a horrible drive,Martin Brundle called it a "bin on wheels" and was blown away by how fast MS was in it.
All I know is they are both up there with the best F1has ever seen.
If they never got the 2 race ban for cheating they would have won the constuctors easily! Did you choose to forget that? I can't listen I can only read your comment!
If the allegations are false then why does the designer himself say they existed? What the hell are you mad?
The 94 benetton was the most advanced car Byrne created, he said this himself in an interview here in South Africa after he retired stating that it had 'launch control', 'traction control' even '4 wheel steering' 'In the black box which nobody could detect' 'my finest machine' & he only beat useless Hill by crashing into him by 1 point & a twit like u is trying to tell me the williams was better LOL!
U know zero, even with the most advanced car ever schumi got 0 poles vs Senna coz he's slower
@kouzouka You can't take anything away from Schumacher's heydays. Even if you don't like him. Drivers like Schumacher, Senna, Alonso, Hamilton and now Vettel showed they are better than others. Even if Schumacher can not (now in 2010) keep up with the young guys anymore. He already proved everything and nobody can take it away from him. But after his first race after 3 years it looks like he's still pretty fast!
Your argument is meaningless because If you ask Patrese that now after watching both designers active years he'd answer more objectively..
You are quoting someone who is answering based on his knowledge at that moment (i.e when newey cars were dominant till 93) which was not the case in 94
I am laughing because even if Patrese had the best car in 91+92 he could do nothing against mansell, how on earth could he compete against Schumi since he was 1.useless and 2. old!
He did nothing with Newey and Byrnes car so using your logic Mansell is a genius too! LOL
What i'm trying to help you understand is that rory byrne is a brilliant designer, and Schumi never won a title without a Rory Byrne car.. All 7 titles team Rory Byrne + Ross Brawn.
At least Ross won a title without Schumi, Schumi can't say the same... And look now he's gone straght back to Ross again for 2010
I've watched both throughout their careers and most experts and myself believe that Senna was quicker but not by much. Schumacher had other qualities that Senna never had which was to take chances with crappy Ferrari and lead the team. Senna was just a driver but he did it better then anyone else. Love them both but they are very different. Jackie Stewart was asked the same question and his reply was that "If everyone had a exact same car, Senna would be quicker than anyone else"
If I believe that Schumi is better than Senna then i believe in the tooth fairy & Santa..
This video proves that Senna had to die for Schumi to get 1 pole in 42 gp together
Are you sure about Newey? Rory Byrne cars are the most successful f1 cars of all time then Adrian Newey, at least my head is working a bit better on that one!
Schumi's Ford had pneumatic valves on his cylinders and Senna's were spring loaded, the max revs was 2000rpm less.
In 94 Schumi had concealed launch control, traction control and 4 wheel steering. I know this thanks to Rory Byrne admitting it in an interview after he retired here in South Africa..
vs Senna Schumi still got 0 poles in 93+94 and 1 win in 93 to Sennas 5 with a mightier engine and a Rory Byrne chassis..
hard to believe that it took schumacher ~3 years to get his first pole position... and will people STOP FUCKING ARGUING ABOUT SENNA AND SCHUMACHER! i don't care what you think...
Schumacher also had more podium finishes in the 1992 and 1993 season than Senna. A rookie (yes he is a rookie) vs a 3 times world champion.
Why can't you accept he is a good driver? He did many bad things but Senna his moments with his driving and it's 100% fact Senna knew Schumacher would be the one to take him over. Everyone complains about Schumacher about cheating but the real fans like me will see they are both great drivers.
He is a wonderfull driver, but comenting podium finishes from 92,93 just is nonsense in my mind. Everyone knows Benetton had a recent mark v8 engine. Nonetheless Senna was always up there with them, even being better then Schuey. 92?... come on...should I even consider responding? Senna finished probably 8 from 16 races that year, if not less!.. Tha goes to show how the Mp4/7 was concerning reliability. If you want to know I´ll tell you why it was that way :)
i hate that,if benetton cheated why verstappen and herbert was slower than 1 second than schumacher?maybe just schumacher's car wasn't ruled?i don't believe in,truth is benetton was hardly driven car what just schumacher could drive,if he could comeback this year it was been amazing,we could see benetton's schumacher
"i hate that,if benetton cheated why verstappen and herbert was slower than 1 second than schumacher?"
Simple. they were nowhere near Schumachers driving abilities. Put a Montoya, Raikonnen, hakinnen, Alonso on that second benetton and you would see the results;)
1990; 1:21.314 Ayrton Senna 1991; 1:20.344 Ayrton Senna 1992; 1:19.495 Nigel Mansell 1993; 1:20.557 Alain Prost 1994; 1:18.560 Michael Schumacher 1995; 1:21.952 Damon Hill 1996; 1:20.356 Michael Schumacher 1997; 1:18.216 Heinz-Harald Frentzen 1998; 1:19.798 Mika Häkkinen 1999; 1:20.547 Mika Häkkinen 2000; 1:19.475 Michael Schumacher
Yeah he had the faster fueling and the launch control but this is proof he posted a decent lap time in a car that was second to Williams and had no 'cheats' to effect otherwise.
Many don't argee but like I said, I think this was Schumachers day, even if Senna was alive fighting for the 1994 season. He really was on pace that weekend.
@art2000cc in 1985 Ayrton Senna = 16 Gp, in medium car (Lotus) 7 poles against top cars Prost/Lauda (Mclaren), Mansell/Rosberg (Williams) and Piquet (Brabham)...7 poles against 4,3,1,1,3 World Champions...in medium car....Schumacher never start in pole while Senna alive....Schumacher only pole after Senna dead against???? nobody...
You can't compare a 3 times champion vs someone who was classed as a rookie in F1. Senna also had the best car as well as the worst ones so don't make out he had a hard time. He had more people working for him on the grid when in Honda than anyone on the grid.
You say he broken all the rules of F. Qualifying is the only time Schumacher couldn't use his "cheats".
You Senna fans will have to get over the fact, Schumacher was next in line be the best, even if it took longer if Senna were alive.
@art2000cc In 94 Schumacher classed as rookie??? not agree...in first half of 94, Williams not a best car, compare Hill and Senna (both reclaims of car),but Senna 3 Poles...MS debut in 1991 in medium car (Benetton), Senna debut in 1984 in worst car(Tolleman)...Senna walk for victory in Monaco 84, but the race stoped when Senna walk for overtaking prost...
@art2000cc In 94 Schumacher error 2 times against Hill in adelaide...first( hit in wall alone, after hit the Hill out the track) the race finished for MS at instant what he hit in wall, after cheat against Hill) in 96 Hill defeated MS and 97 Villeneuve...imagine Senna!!!!
@art2000cc Sign my think...1988 in 16 gp Senna 13 poles against Team mate Prost..in 1993 16 gp, Prost 13 Poles against Hill...in 1994 so hard to Schumacher defeated Hill cheating...
@art2000cc When Senna in best car, not gift for Senna...He aways work hard together mechanicals of Team...Senna developed your cars.....the time of MS, the car coming done of fatory, after Millions of Dollars invested, tests after tests, Wind tunnel...
You make out Senna is the only one but actually Schumacher has developed cars along with other F1 drivers. Much money was spent on Senna with Honda having much trust in his abilities. He had more people with him than Prost when they were team mates.
Schumacher didn't do a whole season in 91 and Senna did on his first year so you can't argue Senna did much better because he did more races.
Relating the first F1 season for both. If Senna did the all 1rst season, Schumacher did he last 91 races with the 3rd best car of the field (after the Williams and the mp4/6s). The Toleman was...way back down back in 84. So Pretty even I do believe:)
@art2000cc in 1986 Ayrton Senna in medium car (Lotus) against Prost and Rosberg (Mclaren) , Mansell and Piquet (Williams=most powerfull car in grid)...16 Gps, 8 poles for Senna...please not compare driver cheat in car cheat with one driver what defeated many Worlds Champions in inferior car....
@art2000cc In 1992 and 1993 most powerfull cars in grid are Williams....in 1992 Senna in worst car of Mclaren defeated Mansell and Patrese, in 1993 wins against Prost and Hill....in 1994, the King of Monaco wins certain..
I'm trying to say Michael was fast in a car that was second to Williams and over 10 years of F1, only one person has beaten his lap time which ended up being a Williams.
I still think he would of won that grand prix even if Senna were alive to race it.
It was the FIA's (ne' Eccelstone and Mosley) kneejerk reaction to their previous draconian measure of having the rear difusers removed. Plus, it was then deemed to be a dangerous corner. If memory serves, the tires were more dangerous than the corner itself.
Not that solid, circuit configuration and rules make it impossible to compare years. Wide vs. narrow tires from 92 to 93, 3.0 vs. 3.5 engines, bridgestone with different compounds.
Senna and Schumacher were fast there. No discussion there but so were others who didn't win nor started on pole (or even did!, like Montoya)
Man, may I ask what that as to do with...anything?!... What is your point whit this times statistics?.. Beaten schumachers time? man why don´t you go get Clarks, Stewarts, time around Monaco, you´re already at it?. Diferent years/diferent rules/engine specs/engine fuel/ engine arquitechure evolution...Diferent eras cannot be compared. You should compare Monaco times each year at a time...you´ll be suprised with the results;)...
@art2000cc In 1995 Benetton car is most fastest in grid, why Schumacher not pole position????....Because Benetton car in 1994 broken all rules of F1...
Sorry but two seconds in a Formula 1 car is a huge distance and they made huge changes to the cars AFTER this very race.
You got to understand that Senna wasn't happy and demanded upgrades and this was early on in the season.
Even if Senna had pole, Schumacher with that time would of been right behind him. but I do think Schumacher would of had the edge because of Senna's issues and of course his quicker fueling.
Senna himself would known a 1.18.5 is a good time for them cars at the time.
I agree with you on about everything. 1.18.5 is indeed a top noch time. But saying it was almost impossible for Senna to get there..In race distance managing a car like the williams was is really hard I suppose. Even on other races if Senna had raced in fact in Aida and Imola, maybe he could not win the race. If we new the result before the races we wouldn´t call it races, would we?
What´s a fact is that on the only race Senna really raced Schumacher in 94(Brasil) he was 5 seconds behind Schuey and recovering), although I admite that schuey could have benn cruising by then. But using an iliegal car. On qualy he was beaten on all 3 races, and noone will convince me schuey did a lap at Monaco that Senna could not have beaten. Have you haver seen Senna REALLY driving an F1 car to it´s limit...:).
He was the bes and quickest at that. No doubts remaining.
I agree with you that shuey would have benn closer all the time in race distance. But you have to consider the ilegal factor of things in racing. For a race to be considered legit, ALL cars must be under the FIA RULES ;).
All to say...yep, although shuey was a great driver, so was Alonso, Hakineen and others. the fact is Senna was even a little bit better :)
It is impossible to say that Senna would not have made 1.18... two years is in my mind a long time, relating F1 evolution.
Just my opinion. And i guess we will not convince each other from the contrary:). But it´s all good. If we´re here discussing F1 is because we all love it right? And that is the important thing.
"Sorry but two seconds in a Formula 1 car is a huge distance..."
Yhea, it would be a huge distance, IF the cars had been developed considering the FIA rules for the SAME season in which they would race, which is not the case, is it? And the distance between those best lap times is not 2 years but 3 (91-94).
Even Senna would of had a problem with an 1.18.5 as I don't think Senna ever did a 1.18 on Monaco and to me, Schumacher would of won this race anyway because he was fastest by a second and you can't really overtake on Monaco.
Lol...Senna was the king of Monaco...poor Schumacher...maybe he would won because of the cheats he had in his car, but even in this situation Senna would beat him easily like he was doing in Imola, when he did the 3rd best lap of the race in the only fast lap he had in that race, with a heavier car. He had a 2 stop strategy while Schummy and Hill had a 3 stop strategy.
Whilst Senna has the most wins at Monaco, Senna would not of beaten him easily as a 1.18.5 is an impressive time and Senna moaned about his williams not performing the way he wanted it to be. Also Schumacher did not cheat as he did consistant laps faster and faster and I don't remember launch control or quick fueling interfering in qualifying.
I still would of put my money on Schumacher for this race as Monaco is very hard to overtake. If this was any other circuit in 1994 then who knows?
I do believe is best time was 1.20.334 in 1991 (if he did not do better in the following years). I don´t have the statistics with me. But less than 2 seconds with an older car and with an engine with about 720 hp (schumachers benetton for 94 must have had at least 750 hp (more light) with pneumatic valve comand, and a 3 year lead on aerodinamics, syas much...
It is IMPOSSIBLE to say what could have been. the fact is, when they raced for pole together, Senna won all the time.
Benetton was working at the B194-Ford a long time before that Senna was testing with his Williams FW-16 (newly in 1994, after the hybrid FW-15D) and, evidently, when a team begins to be work the design and aerodynamic of a car early, there has an advantage v/s the team that does it later.
It also happened in 1994: Schumacher was possessing a better car with a Ford V8 engine, whereas Senna was running with an unstable Renault V10 and with a design that was late too much in being worn out.
Yheap, all correct:) Even in 93, after Mclaren got the same spec ford v8 as Benetton, it was not until they managed to put the engine to work with the chassis, that Mclaren improved a LOT. And we all know what results Senna did after that happening :). So, you´re absolutly correct. In F1, experience with the car, parts of it, even driver experience is WAY important not to be noticed :)
Senna did a GREAT work with this McLaren MP4-8 with Ford V8 engine, overcoat thinking that, as in 1994, he was running with a car that did not have a competitive performance as the Ford engine of MSC's Benetton B193 (very much minor still in comparison with the Williams's Renault V10 engine that had 30 HP more of power), that possessing, moreover, the revolutionary "shark nobe", Benetton had a contract anticipated with the factory, was provided with better engines in comparison with McLaren.
Yeap. But I do believe form Silverstone on the mclaren got the same spec as Benetton one. The diference was that benetton was using this engine type (ford v8) since 89 probably, whithin its various spec evolutions. So they had a LOT mnore experience with the engine.
In 93 Senna's mclaren never ever had the same spec ford as schumi..
The ford engine contract belonged to benetton and the agreement to sell to other teams had a precondition stating that any 'resale' engines must always be 2 specs behind the benetton engine..
Its in wikipedia under cosworth and in 'the life of Senna' biography. briatore is a cheat true but he is a very smart guy, he made the agreement
@kouzouka Didn´t know that about the wikipedia stuff. I´ll have to check it out:). But indeed I do believe Briatore is a smart guy, who would have wanted to have the upper hand concerning engines back in 93:).
@kouzouka I already thought about that myself. We will see, but I guess you must be right :). Anyways. This upcoming season promises! :) for everyone who loves F1 at least.
Nevertheless, when mclaren got thebalance betwen the engine and the chassis for 93, what hapenned? Where was Schumacher at japan? And Adelaide?. And at Portugal he won only after Senna´s retirement and Prost´s unwillingness to take any risks (chanpionship thinking) :)
Thanks for clearing that up because then we BOTH agree...the Honda was better, not question about that! :-)
But for a moment, with some of the things you said, it sounded to me like you meant that it was better ONLY because it was a V12!!!...because a V8 with same displacement could be just as good! (but this particular V8 was not)
Those who know F1, just by looking at trajectories, can say without doubt that, yes, Schumacher is a good pilot, but he is certainly not the best. For example, take a look at the qualifying lap of Senna at Monaco: 0.6 s diff with Prost only at the siwmming pool entry, the most difficult curve(today destroyed by damned FIA) of Monaco.Look how much space Schum leaves with rails, even at the chicane.The Mika's flying lap at Monaco in 1994 was a bigger perofrmance than Schum's pole.
I was not the one who gave you thumbs down, but remember that with this car, he would not have to push over the limit and take too many chances...like Mika ex.
Also if I remember correctly this year they qaulified on racefuel, so it was deceptive who was fast or slow they were, due to not knowing their fuel levels!
You should know that qualifying at that time was true qualifying, with just enough fuel for qualifying lap, with 12 laps per session. 1 anecdot : Senna in 1993 qualified with fuel for 2 qualifying rounds, ie approximatively 6/8 laps, because there is generally fuel for 1 exit, 1 entry and 1 or2 qualifying lap. it was a mistake from McLaren. Suzuka, 0.6/0.62 for 10kg. Less at Monaco.of course, I m talking about 93.I think i Know F1 and believe me or not, Schum hasn't the level of Senna.
Are you sure that the fuel regulations was not changes exactly prior to the 1994 season!?
I admit I might be wrong, but I believe there was at least some kind of changes in fuel regulations prior to 94!?...but it might be something else im thinking about!
Refuelling was forbiden in 1983 because of fire in Monaco 1982 (Rosberg if I am right).It was reintroduce in 1994, but the rules remain the same for qualifying, as it was before:2 qualif session, 12 laps per session that you can manage as you want. in 95,they transformed the friday qualifying session into a free session, so only saturday and 12 laps remained.the rule remain the same until 2003, when qualifying become completly ridiculous with 1 run/driver.
until 91, drivers had special qualifying tyres, which was forbiden in 92. Qualifying was really something amazing and all of this doesn't really exist now. About refuelling in 94, it was reintroduce to copy Indycar with promises of action and also, in fact to give a help to Ferrari, because refuelling would limit that weight problem due to V12 needing more fuel.Moreover FIA and stupids guys like Mosley needs each year to introduce something,justifying their role.
All your bickerings are laughable. Senna and Schumacher are two of the best ever F1 drivers to have lived FACT. They both employed what some would call "dirty tactics" but so what??!
To comments below: Yes Schumacher did have more power for much of the 1993season than Senna, but the Mclaren Chassis was pretty good, probably better or equal to the Bennettons.
Use of TC and LC talk in 1994 is bullshit. I guess you're calling Flavio, Ross Brawn and Pat Symonds cheats then???!
yeah ofcourse not...they just had it all hidden there for no reason :)
Senna himself actually thought the Benettons had 'strange noises coming from them' after he retired from the race previous to his death and stood on the side of the track while the race continued for a while
There was an option hidden in the legal software of the car, activated doing a procedure with the steering wheel and the pedals. But according with Benetton team, this was used only in tests. FIA and an electronic company working with them, never prooved that this software option was used.
The point is/was, no iliegal hardware/software was allowed on the cars back in 94, relating the 94cahnged rules. So the hardware/software was iliegally on the Benettons.
"yeah ofcourse not...they just had it all hidden there for no reason :)" Yhea, indeed man.Since we are at christmas time, some people must still believe in santa :);). Of course they were using it.
ppl...stop making stupid comments...Senna still on top, Shumacher was good just because Ferrari...Even Barrichelo won L O L...ThanksTO FERRARI...You need ballz to race, and now days its easier than before..Shumi fans, Why shumacher wasnt better than Senna years back...???HE GOT NO FUKN TITTLE AND HE WASNT FASTER THAN SENNA.-..STILL THE SAME THING, HES ON TOP THANKS TO SENNAS DEATH.Shumacher sucks and he cheats
you're an idiot ..in 1993 schumacher was the mist successful driver. in this 2nd ever season he always finished podium in a bad working bennetton ... 1 year later he won a title in the very same bad bennetton, although he wasn't allowed to drive for 3 raced ..in 1996 ferrari was nearly out of racing .. bad situation, bad car ...schumacher started to improve the team who was at the ground ..5 years later the improvement was big enough for the next title..then they became unstopable because of MSC
0:30 I had mine here as well... Who?
Sheraad190 1 year ago
@Sheraad190 John Watson. the commentator
clay111 1 year ago
but the car was made 4 schumacher style
dennisdaniel86 1 year ago
In comparison to 2010 cars, Webber clocked 1:13.826 this year for pole. Almost 6 seconds on a track like this, big difference.
proringz 1 year ago
You putted al tags in description !!!lol So, tell me when this happened?!this is obviously not 1994!!!
HeyMarkedOne8 1 year ago
@HeyMarkedOne8 its 1994, do some research.
clay111 1 year ago
@clay111 Where is this onboard camera mounted? It s shaking like hell. How heavy is it?Does anybody know?
shanghaikidx 1 year ago
@shanghaikidx its that thing sticking out on the left hand side of his rear wing
clay111 1 year ago 2
@clay111 got yerself a winner there. :)
penske13 1 year ago
@HeyMarkedOne8
It has to be 1994. The car is Ford powered. In 95 it had a Renault.
EJ25RUN 1 year ago
what's wrong with 1:52 - 6.480 second ahead of his own best lap? Wrong time?
LordAlton 1 year ago
why do you write all this names in the text of the video? just to get more hits because people, who search for something else find this video??
LordAlton 1 year ago
eu odeio esse alemão dick vigarista
Seiya8249 1 year ago
The Benneton B194, was made specifically for Schumacher driving style, and the Williams FW15 and FW16 for the driving style of Nigel Mansell.Even so, Senna got 3 poles against Schumacher in 1994...had continued living Senna, he got pole here too...
77skelter 1 year ago
Well, it's obvious that is Senna was alive - he would've won this.
thylegion 1 year ago
...how the fuck can this be a coincidence that he won his first pole the very next race after Senna's death?
xpandia 1 year ago
@thylegion he = Schumacher.
thylegion 1 year ago
Senna was probably better around Monaco than Schumacher to be honest. But if Senna was around, even he would probably no beat this lap. Schumacher's lap here was just one of those laps around monaco where you get in the zone and nail it. Like Senna in 1988.
insimonia1990 1 year ago
@insimonia1990
i know that you don't really mean it
xpandia 1 year ago
Make a repeat, Michael, come on!
schuf1 1 year ago
there was the best looking cars in f1 ever
vilee453 1 year ago
@wibsonluis omg how many people do not know this?? the fw16 was a horrible car, he FW16B was the one that was so great in 1994
bubi8894 1 year ago
He head the best car bu far in Brazil and Aida and didn't get pole. Hill was qualifying over 2 seconds slower than the Benetton.
LeonWgner 1 year ago
@LeonWgner no he didnt, 1 sec in Brazil and 3 tenths in Aida. Schumachers teammate was 2 seconds off the pace which suggests the benetton wasnt the best car. i think they were relatively even.
clay111 1 year ago 2
@clay111 Apparently whilst the car was very quick, Verstappen, Herbert and Letho all found it very difficult to find the performance limit of the B194. They'd either be well within it, or would go over it and crash. Schumacher himself later said it was a difficult car to drive.
MasterofSpiders 1 year ago
@clay111
schumachers teammate was verstappen in his rookie season... not exactly comparable....
06kohlert 1 year ago
@LeonWgner
Yes, the Benetton that year was the best car. The team actually cheated with taking a spring away when the did refuel in the pits. Furthermore, the electronics in Benetton 1994 had a traction control. V8 vs v10. You can win if you cheat.
MeBest777 1 year ago
you cant take it. Schumacher is the master the numbers say it all the best ever
bmwnasher 1 year ago
@bmwnasher Schumacher may now be the master, but the true master was Ayrton Senna
JustaKarter 1 year ago
@wibsonluis just watch schumachers onboard of his in magny cours in 1994, you cant do this without cheating or jump starting. and...."her" car? of course ayrton is the best.
bubi8894 1 year ago
McLarenMercedes - you're incredibly thick. You cannot compare how Michael is driving against Rosberg right now. He's no where near the confidence and speed he had back in the 90s. It's going to take time, maybe he wont ever be as quick as he used to be.
weallfollowmanutd 1 year ago
woow shumi
keytek9 1 year ago
At the start behind schumi there was barrichello.16 years later they're still in f1...
Enri1989 1 year ago
A YEAR TO FORGET.....
rdtli 1 year ago
its interesting to watch Schumi this season.. looks a bit shell shocked.. reminds me of senna in 94...
billyposter 1 year ago
that is a DEVASTATINGLY fast lap!
do people realis that mika was 9 tenths behind and damon was 1.5 seconds behind!!!!! and his team mate Lehto was FOUR seconds slower!!! this surely was more dominant than what senna did in monaco to prost in 88
dell9595 1 year ago
please. Damon Hill was sitting in the Williams which was neigh on undrivable at the start of the 1994 season. only in the mid season did they improve it enough
both Senna and Hill complained in the first few races of 1994.
The thing is the McLaren Honda was the best car by far in 1988, and Prost was the most succesful driver of all time when Senna became his teammate. Lehto was no Prost thank you very much. Last time I check Prost won in Monaco in 84-85-86, so he knew a thing about Monaco.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
Hakkinen was driving the McLaren-Peugeot, which hardly was a top car in 1994. The engine was powerful but unreliable and had a narrow powerband, which together with the underdeveloped McLaren chassis of 1994, hardly was a match for Ferrari even, much less Benetton and Williams.
Gilles Villeneuve was seconds faster than Didier Pironi in 1981 too in Monaco. Pironi was very fast himself. The 1981 Ferrari was not the best car. The 1994 Benetton had the best chassis. Even Schumacher himself said it.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
what a horrible season....williams fw16 sucked and benetton cheated..
bubi8894 1 year ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
You didn´t even saw a single race of the 94 season, so please STFM.
Yet the sound of the V12 Ferrari was enough to keep the game up...please dont take your head away from football
The only thing that sucked in 94 was Senna´s assassination (snipper shot) at Imola, and the artificial non-competition between a banned MS and the (1,2 sec slower than Senna) brit-crap represented by Damon Hill
Also Senna´s masterplan assassination came with a perfect free gift, namely big publicity for F1
sailretard 1 year ago
wtf are you talking about?? sniper shots? fuck off!
bubi8894 1 year ago
wtf?? ther was no sniper shot!!! senna was killed by an irect wheel striking him in the head after a masive crash!!
goholden12345 1 year ago 2
exactly! that sniper shot theory is the dumbest thing I've heard about senna's death. also, it was a suspension piece attached to a wheel that killed him I think.
bubi8894 1 year ago
Schumacher = driving Aids
Senna = Driving Skills
dennisdaniel86 1 year ago
Amen.
Senna putting the Lotus-Renualt on pole 7 times in 1985 and 8 times in 1986, against much better cars from McLaren, Ferrari and Williams proves he had driving skills from another world.
Senna nearly won the Monaco GP driving a bad Toleman-Hart against Prost in a McLaren-TAG Porsche
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
In 1992 and 1993 senna had lucky wins. But he ofcourse are God of Monaco, But Michael is God of F1
andriusssska 1 year ago
then why is Rosberg outdriving and outscoring him easily?
did you call Senna's Donington win in the rain "lucky"?? That alone was testimony to his incredible skill, and widely seen as one of the best race wins of any driver ever in the history of motorracing.
Senna had Prost as a team mate and beat him. Prost was a 4 time champion. What champion did Schumacher ever have as team mate?
Fangio is the God of F1, thank you very much.He won 5 title in 7 years and the last when he was 46 years old.
McLarenMercedes 1 year ago
AIDA (2nd race that season) is also slow and still Senna grabbed the pole easily. Remember that Senna is the king of Monaco, he would likely get at least 10 poles that season IF that crash didn´t happen. No doubt MS is great and his teammates were useless, though.
The sad fact is that we lost the chance of seeing another hot rivalry, just like Senna/Prost from 88 to 90...
albferraz 2 years ago 6
@albferraz
Bullshit - the williams was unstoppable in 94. Verstappen even was 2 seconds slower than Hill, Senna, and his team mate in the same car. Which means Schumacher was incredible to find 2 seconds in that car, he was the one with the worse car, not Senna..
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877 BULLSHIT, MS teammates verstappen and herbert where horrible and thats why they didn't last in f1. if hill was in a bennetton he probably would be close. off course shumi is outstanding, but Senna 's team mate became even world champion..and those useless MS teammates only drivers to be forgotton.
pmned 1 year ago
@pmned
What idiocy. Verstappen lasted 10 years in F1 and Herbert lasted 11. Yea - they suck balls. Hill became world champion because he had no competition in 1996 - the williams was unstoppable.
Anime998877 1 year ago
Verstappen had no TC in 1994 in order to reduce risks..had Verstappen qualified top 3 then it would be obvious that they ve been cheating...Briatore is not that stupid
xpandia 1 year ago
@xpandia
Very nice excuse. But you really have no idea what you're talking about.
Anime998877 1 year ago
@Anime998877
you would say the same if i 'd told you 2 years ago that Piquet jr. had crashed his car deliberately.
xpandia 1 year ago
@xpandia
Oh noes - you got me.
Anime998877 1 year ago
Benneton was light and agile, perfect for narrow races like monaco, no wonder that schumi was able to do ´wonders´. Too bad senna had to drive a fat williams in his last season :(
launger 2 years ago 3
In 94 Benetton would most definitely have won the constructors if not for the 2 race ban as i mentioned but also Schumi had useless teamates!
J.J Letho, Johnny Herbet and Jos Verstappen were swapping seats in the sister Benetton all season long in 94 remember?
How the hell can you win the constructors with such inconsistency? Yet Benetton still managed to only lose by 15 pts
Without the ban they would win for sure..
kouzouka 2 years ago 5
@kouzouka you are a fucking idiot mate, you keep comparing schuey to senna at monaco, why don't you do a comparison at somewhere like Suzuka or why don't you just look at the stats, Schumis got nearly as many wins as Senna and Prost put together and has more than double than Senna himself. Then look at the fastest laps, then look at points scored I could go on and on, stats never lie Schumi the greatest
ryangodbold1 1 year ago
Senna's average qualifying position @ Monaco is 2.9 (5 poles in 10 yrs)
Schumi is 4.3 (3 poles in 15 yrs)
So history is in Senna's favour.. In fact After 84(1st season) he never qualified lower than 3rd again here.. Schumi qualified lower than 3rd 6 times.
This and 6/10 wins (5 in a row) proves Senna is Monaco king vs Schumi with 5/15 (2 in a row)
Senna would've wiped the floor with Schumi here..
kouzouka 2 years ago 2
The LOSER is Schumi needind Senna to die and an illegal car to get his 1st ever pole despite having a better car in 93 and the beginning of 94..
kouzouka 2 years ago
@kouzouka For pole yes,but In the two races against each other in 94 he was beating him on the track.And it was the start of his 3rd season in F1
His first two full seasons he finished 3rd then 4th in the championship,he was awesome.
Regarding comments about the bennaton.the car was a horrible drive,Martin Brundle called it a "bin on wheels" and was blown away by how fast MS was in it.
All I know is they are both up there with the best F1has ever seen.
GazVonhammer 2 years ago
Pay closer attention to the video and you'll see the features in action!
Hilariously true, i'll post the article for you one day so you can read it and weep and maybe then you'll use your last brain cell constructively..
Actually i won't post it.. i like that you're comprehensively misled, ill-informed and know less than me..
kouzouka 2 years ago
If they never got the 2 race ban for cheating they would have won the constuctors easily! Did you choose to forget that? I can't listen I can only read your comment!
If the allegations are false then why does the designer himself say they existed? What the hell are you mad?
kouzouka 2 years ago
The 94 benetton was the most advanced car Byrne created, he said this himself in an interview here in South Africa after he retired stating that it had 'launch control', 'traction control' even '4 wheel steering' 'In the black box which nobody could detect' 'my finest machine' & he only beat useless Hill by crashing into him by 1 point & a twit like u is trying to tell me the williams was better LOL!
U know zero, even with the most advanced car ever schumi got 0 poles vs Senna coz he's slower
kouzouka 2 years ago
First: You can't "cheat" a 4 wheel driving! Silly idiot.
Second: You can't win a championship only by "cheating" in the last race. You need some skills and other points.
rfactormo 1 year ago 2
Yes other points like no descent competition, like in this vid
kouzouka 1 year ago
This was orgasmic :)
teamofrivals1 1 year ago
@kouzouka You can't take anything away from Schumacher's heydays. Even if you don't like him. Drivers like Schumacher, Senna, Alonso, Hamilton and now Vettel showed they are better than others. Even if Schumacher can not (now in 2010) keep up with the young guys anymore. He already proved everything and nobody can take it away from him. But after his first race after 3 years it looks like he's still pretty fast!
lubnaa 1 year ago
Your argument is meaningless because If you ask Patrese that now after watching both designers active years he'd answer more objectively..
You are quoting someone who is answering based on his knowledge at that moment (i.e when newey cars were dominant till 93) which was not the case in 94
You are a bit daft
kouzouka 2 years ago
Comment removed
kouzouka 2 years ago
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kouzouka 2 years ago
I am laughing because even if Patrese had the best car in 91+92 he could do nothing against mansell, how on earth could he compete against Schumi since he was 1.useless and 2. old!
He did nothing with Newey and Byrnes car so using your logic Mansell is a genius too! LOL
kouzouka 2 years ago
What i'm trying to help you understand is that rory byrne is a brilliant designer, and Schumi never won a title without a Rory Byrne car.. All 7 titles team Rory Byrne + Ross Brawn.
At least Ross won a title without Schumi, Schumi can't say the same... And look now he's gone straght back to Ross again for 2010
Live with That
kouzouka 2 years ago
If was a team owner and both were on their prime, I'd take Schumacher for his overall quality. Senna maybe quicker but not by much.
robertoppenheimer 2 years ago
I've watched both throughout their careers and most experts and myself believe that Senna was quicker but not by much. Schumacher had other qualities that Senna never had which was to take chances with crappy Ferrari and lead the team. Senna was just a driver but he did it better then anyone else. Love them both but they are very different. Jackie Stewart was asked the same question and his reply was that "If everyone had a exact same car, Senna would be quicker than anyone else"
robertoppenheimer 2 years ago
And in 2000s? Which designers cars won more out of the two?
kouzouka 2 years ago
There's something really wrong with you shoeme69...
Where in any of my comments did i call you names like 'senna cow' and 'dumbass'?
You clearly think that presenting evidence based on facts is an insult to you and somewhere in your head you conclude that you need to insult me?
Are you 9 years old?
kouzouka 2 years ago
always those haters
xeenoon 2 years ago
If I believe that Schumi is better than Senna then i believe in the tooth fairy & Santa..
This video proves that Senna had to die for Schumi to get 1 pole in 42 gp together
Are you sure about Newey? Rory Byrne cars are the most successful f1 cars of all time then Adrian Newey, at least my head is working a bit better on that one!
kouzouka 2 years ago
The difference was not very small..
Schumi's Ford had pneumatic valves on his cylinders and Senna's were spring loaded, the max revs was 2000rpm less.
In 94 Schumi had concealed launch control, traction control and 4 wheel steering. I know this thanks to Rory Byrne admitting it in an interview after he retired here in South Africa..
vs Senna Schumi still got 0 poles in 93+94 and 1 win in 93 to Sennas 5 with a mightier engine and a Rory Byrne chassis..
Those are the facts
kouzouka 2 years ago
traction control at work.
Schumi the cheater.
FreakyFrans 2 years ago
"remarkable" on the first lap
"uh oh" when Schumi goes 0.7 seconds faster on the second lap.
DnylF1 2 years ago
hard to believe that it took schumacher ~3 years to get his first pole position... and will people STOP FUCKING ARGUING ABOUT SENNA AND SCHUMACHER! i don't care what you think...
FormulaOneFan4Eva 2 years ago
If This Shumacher would drive in 2010 season,.. He probolly win all races
andriusssska 2 years ago
I just do not understand how the cars were much faster in Imola and Monaco to the rule changes after ...
sennathebest100 2 years ago
In 1997 with worst car(arrows), Hill walk to victory in Hungary when you car broken against Schumacher in Ferrari..
guigo00018 2 years ago
Schumacher also had more podium finishes in the 1992 and 1993 season than Senna. A rookie (yes he is a rookie) vs a 3 times world champion.
Why can't you accept he is a good driver? He did many bad things but Senna his moments with his driving and it's 100% fact Senna knew Schumacher would be the one to take him over. Everyone complains about Schumacher about cheating but the real fans like me will see they are both great drivers.
art2000cc 2 years ago
He is a wonderfull driver, but comenting podium finishes from 92,93 just is nonsense in my mind. Everyone knows Benetton had a recent mark v8 engine. Nonetheless Senna was always up there with them, even being better then Schuey. 92?... come on...should I even consider responding? Senna finished probably 8 from 16 races that year, if not less!.. Tha goes to show how the Mp4/7 was concerning reliability. If you want to know I´ll tell you why it was that way :)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
wut is t/m?
timinator824 2 years ago
You forget to point out Schumacher's old Benetton was not a great car either before 1994
art2000cc 2 years ago
i hate that,if benetton cheated why verstappen and herbert was slower than 1 second than schumacher?maybe just schumacher's car wasn't ruled?i don't believe in,truth is benetton was hardly driven car what just schumacher could drive,if he could comeback this year it was been amazing,we could see benetton's schumacher
brassmokey12 2 years ago 2
"i hate that,if benetton cheated why verstappen and herbert was slower than 1 second than schumacher?"
Simple. they were nowhere near Schumachers driving abilities. Put a Montoya, Raikonnen, hakinnen, Alonso on that second benetton and you would see the results;)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
dont forget JJ Lehto
thetreadingbehemoth 2 years ago
JJ was having a convalescence moment in that year. I coudn´t count him in in that manner:)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
at 0.28 you can hear wheelspin. Have to listen carefully but that as wheelspin
ferrari2009fan 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Easy without Senna......
romanoanto 2 years ago
art2000cc 2 years ago 5
Solid facts right there proves that in ten years, with different cars, only one person has beaten Schumacher's time.
art2000cc 2 years ago
that's great and that but wasn't the benetton in 1994 to a large extent, illegal?
ShaunDobbie1andonly 2 years ago 10
Yeah he had the faster fueling and the launch control but this is proof he posted a decent lap time in a car that was second to Williams and had no 'cheats' to effect otherwise.
Many don't argee but like I said, I think this was Schumachers day, even if Senna was alive fighting for the 1994 season. He really was on pace that weekend.
art2000cc 2 years ago 2
@art2000cc in 1985 Ayrton Senna = 16 Gp, in medium car (Lotus) 7 poles against top cars Prost/Lauda (Mclaren), Mansell/Rosberg (Williams) and Piquet (Brabham)...7 poles against 4,3,1,1,3 World Champions...in medium car....Schumacher never start in pole while Senna alive....Schumacher only pole after Senna dead against???? nobody...
guigo00018 2 years ago
You can't compare a 3 times champion vs someone who was classed as a rookie in F1. Senna also had the best car as well as the worst ones so don't make out he had a hard time. He had more people working for him on the grid when in Honda than anyone on the grid.
You say he broken all the rules of F. Qualifying is the only time Schumacher couldn't use his "cheats".
You Senna fans will have to get over the fact, Schumacher was next in line be the best, even if it took longer if Senna were alive.
art2000cc 2 years ago
@art2000cc In 94 Schumacher classed as rookie??? not agree...in first half of 94, Williams not a best car, compare Hill and Senna (both reclaims of car),but Senna 3 Poles...MS debut in 1991 in medium car (Benetton), Senna debut in 1984 in worst car(Tolleman)...Senna walk for victory in Monaco 84, but the race stoped when Senna walk for overtaking prost...
guigo00018 2 years ago
@art2000cc In 94 Schumacher error 2 times against Hill in adelaide...first( hit in wall alone, after hit the Hill out the track) the race finished for MS at instant what he hit in wall, after cheat against Hill) in 96 Hill defeated MS and 97 Villeneuve...imagine Senna!!!!
guigo00018 2 years ago
@art2000cc Sign my think...1988 in 16 gp Senna 13 poles against Team mate Prost..in 1993 16 gp, Prost 13 Poles against Hill...in 1994 so hard to Schumacher defeated Hill cheating...
guigo00018 2 years ago
@art2000cc When Senna in best car, not gift for Senna...He aways work hard together mechanicals of Team...Senna developed your cars.....the time of MS, the car coming done of fatory, after Millions of Dollars invested, tests after tests, Wind tunnel...
guigo00018 2 years ago 2
You make out Senna is the only one but actually Schumacher has developed cars along with other F1 drivers. Much money was spent on Senna with Honda having much trust in his abilities. He had more people with him than Prost when they were team mates.
Schumacher didn't do a whole season in 91 and Senna did on his first year so you can't argue Senna did much better because he did more races.
art2000cc 2 years ago
Relating the first F1 season for both. If Senna did the all 1rst season, Schumacher did he last 91 races with the 3rd best car of the field (after the Williams and the mp4/6s). The Toleman was...way back down back in 84. So Pretty even I do believe:)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
@art2000cc in 1986 Ayrton Senna in medium car (Lotus) against Prost and Rosberg (Mclaren) , Mansell and Piquet (Williams=most powerfull car in grid)...16 Gps, 8 poles for Senna...please not compare driver cheat in car cheat with one driver what defeated many Worlds Champions in inferior car....
guigo00018 2 years ago 2
@art2000cc In 1992 and 1993 most powerfull cars in grid are Williams....in 1992 Senna in worst car of Mclaren defeated Mansell and Patrese, in 1993 wins against Prost and Hill....in 1994, the King of Monaco wins certain..
guigo00018 2 years ago 3
In what planet was the Benetton second to Williams in 94? At least before the middle of the season? I know it is my opinion. So it is yours:)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
With so many changes to regulations and the circuit... that just doesn't say anything.
Jejking 2 years ago
do u know the cars were really fast at the start of 1994? then they slowed them down at the spanish gp. not sure what ur trying to prove here
clay111 2 years ago
I'm trying to say Michael was fast in a car that was second to Williams and over 10 years of F1, only one person has beaten his lap time which ended up being a Williams.
I still think he would of won that grand prix even if Senna were alive to race it.
art2000cc 2 years ago
It was the FIA's (ne' Eccelstone and Mosley) kneejerk reaction to their previous draconian measure of having the rear difusers removed. Plus, it was then deemed to be a dangerous corner. If memory serves, the tires were more dangerous than the corner itself.
ajd0408 2 years ago
Not that solid, circuit configuration and rules make it impossible to compare years. Wide vs. narrow tires from 92 to 93, 3.0 vs. 3.5 engines, bridgestone with different compounds.
Senna and Schumacher were fast there. No discussion there but so were others who didn't win nor started on pole (or even did!, like Montoya)
lcville 2 years ago
Man, may I ask what that as to do with...anything?!... What is your point whit this times statistics?.. Beaten schumachers time? man why don´t you go get Clarks, Stewarts, time around Monaco, you´re already at it?. Diferent years/diferent rules/engine specs/engine fuel/ engine arquitechure evolution...Diferent eras cannot be compared. You should compare Monaco times each year at a time...you´ll be suprised with the results;)...
Tuscopa 2 years ago
The Senna fanboys are so poor.
You´re confused. With you, people can´t discuss.
Trendeule001 2 years ago
@art2000cc In 1995 Benetton car is most fastest in grid, why Schumacher not pole position????....Because Benetton car in 1994 broken all rules of F1...
guigo00018 2 years ago
Sorry but two seconds in a Formula 1 car is a huge distance and they made huge changes to the cars AFTER this very race.
You got to understand that Senna wasn't happy and demanded upgrades and this was early on in the season.
Even if Senna had pole, Schumacher with that time would of been right behind him. but I do think Schumacher would of had the edge because of Senna's issues and of course his quicker fueling.
Senna himself would known a 1.18.5 is a good time for them cars at the time.
art2000cc 2 years ago
I agree with you on about everything. 1.18.5 is indeed a top noch time. But saying it was almost impossible for Senna to get there..In race distance managing a car like the williams was is really hard I suppose. Even on other races if Senna had raced in fact in Aida and Imola, maybe he could not win the race. If we new the result before the races we wouldn´t call it races, would we?
Tuscopa 2 years ago
What´s a fact is that on the only race Senna really raced Schumacher in 94(Brasil) he was 5 seconds behind Schuey and recovering), although I admite that schuey could have benn cruising by then. But using an iliegal car. On qualy he was beaten on all 3 races, and noone will convince me schuey did a lap at Monaco that Senna could not have beaten. Have you haver seen Senna REALLY driving an F1 car to it´s limit...:).
Tuscopa 2 years ago 3
He was the bes and quickest at that. No doubts remaining.
I agree with you that shuey would have benn closer all the time in race distance. But you have to consider the ilegal factor of things in racing. For a race to be considered legit, ALL cars must be under the FIA RULES ;).
All to say...yep, although shuey was a great driver, so was Alonso, Hakineen and others. the fact is Senna was even a little bit better :)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
It is impossible to say that Senna would not have made 1.18... two years is in my mind a long time, relating F1 evolution.
Just my opinion. And i guess we will not convince each other from the contrary:). But it´s all good. If we´re here discussing F1 is because we all love it right? And that is the important thing.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
I´m glad I have lived in a time were Senna´s, Prosts, Piquets, Schumachers, Hakinne´s, Hamiltons, Alonso´s and all those guys were racing:)
And I have to compliment you for knowing how to discuss something on youtube so correctly, without bashing people..
See you man.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
"Sorry but two seconds in a Formula 1 car is a huge distance..."
Yhea, it would be a huge distance, IF the cars had been developed considering the FIA rules for the SAME season in which they would race, which is not the case, is it? And the distance between those best lap times is not 2 years but 3 (91-94).
Tuscopa 2 years ago
Even Senna would of had a problem with an 1.18.5 as I don't think Senna ever did a 1.18 on Monaco and to me, Schumacher would of won this race anyway because he was fastest by a second and you can't really overtake on Monaco.
art2000cc 2 years ago
its impossible to say. but it would have been a titanic battle for pole if senna was there
clay111 2 years ago
Lol...Senna was the king of Monaco...poor Schumacher...maybe he would won because of the cheats he had in his car, but even in this situation Senna would beat him easily like he was doing in Imola, when he did the 3rd best lap of the race in the only fast lap he had in that race, with a heavier car. He had a 2 stop strategy while Schummy and Hill had a 3 stop strategy.
Senna THE BEST EVER!
silentman2006 2 years ago
Whilst Senna has the most wins at Monaco, Senna would not of beaten him easily as a 1.18.5 is an impressive time and Senna moaned about his williams not performing the way he wanted it to be. Also Schumacher did not cheat as he did consistant laps faster and faster and I don't remember launch control or quick fueling interfering in qualifying.
I still would of put my money on Schumacher for this race as Monaco is very hard to overtake. If this was any other circuit in 1994 then who knows?
art2000cc 2 years ago
senna wasnt happy with the car but stil put it on pole for all of his races in 94. probably would have done the same here in monaco too.
clay111 2 years ago
perfect comment
LesCrapio 2 years ago
I do believe is best time was 1.20.334 in 1991 (if he did not do better in the following years). I don´t have the statistics with me. But less than 2 seconds with an older car and with an engine with about 720 hp (schumachers benetton for 94 must have had at least 750 hp (more light) with pneumatic valve comand, and a 3 year lead on aerodinamics, syas much...
It is IMPOSSIBLE to say what could have been. the fact is, when they raced for pole together, Senna won all the time.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
Benetton was working at the B194-Ford a long time before that Senna was testing with his Williams FW-16 (newly in 1994, after the hybrid FW-15D) and, evidently, when a team begins to be work the design and aerodynamic of a car early, there has an advantage v/s the team that does it later.
It also happened in 1994: Schumacher was possessing a better car with a Ford V8 engine, whereas Senna was running with an unstable Renault V10 and with a design that was late too much in being worn out.
WatanukiF1 2 years ago
Yheap, all correct:) Even in 93, after Mclaren got the same spec ford v8 as Benetton, it was not until they managed to put the engine to work with the chassis, that Mclaren improved a LOT. And we all know what results Senna did after that happening :). So, you´re absolutly correct. In F1, experience with the car, parts of it, even driver experience is WAY important not to be noticed :)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
Senna did a GREAT work with this McLaren MP4-8 with Ford V8 engine, overcoat thinking that, as in 1994, he was running with a car that did not have a competitive performance as the Ford engine of MSC's Benetton B193 (very much minor still in comparison with the Williams's Renault V10 engine that had 30 HP more of power), that possessing, moreover, the revolutionary "shark nobe", Benetton had a contract anticipated with the factory, was provided with better engines in comparison with McLaren.
WatanukiF1 2 years ago
Yeap. But I do believe form Silverstone on the mclaren got the same spec as Benetton one. The diference was that benetton was using this engine type (ford v8) since 89 probably, whithin its various spec evolutions. So they had a LOT mnore experience with the engine.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
In 93 Senna's mclaren never ever had the same spec ford as schumi..
The ford engine contract belonged to benetton and the agreement to sell to other teams had a precondition stating that any 'resale' engines must always be 2 specs behind the benetton engine..
Its in wikipedia under cosworth and in 'the life of Senna' biography. briatore is a cheat true but he is a very smart guy, he made the agreement
kouzouka 2 years ago
@kouzouka Didn´t know that about the wikipedia stuff. I´ll have to check it out:). But indeed I do believe Briatore is a smart guy, who would have wanted to have the upper hand concerning engines back in 93:).
Thanks for that insight.
See you arround.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
Any team manager with half a brain would do the same. It makes perfect sense...
In 2010 i really doubt mclaren will be getting the same spec merc engine as the mercedes-benz team...
kouzouka 2 years ago
@kouzouka I already thought about that myself. We will see, but I guess you must be right :). Anyways. This upcoming season promises! :) for everyone who loves F1 at least.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
Nevertheless, when mclaren got thebalance betwen the engine and the chassis for 93, what hapenned? Where was Schumacher at japan? And Adelaide?. And at Portugal he won only after Senna´s retirement and Prost´s unwillingness to take any risks (chanpionship thinking) :)
Tuscopa 2 years ago 2
@Tuscopa I agree....Benetton engine at 1993 Ford HBA 8 3.5 V8....Mclaren engine is inferior...HBA 7 3.5 V8....Senna out because engine problem..
guigo00018 2 years ago
Contrary to what many people are trying to say, Schumacher would have to beat is ass off to get the pole in Monaco if Senna was racing.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
absolutely stunning.....
they way MSC is working that Benetton around the corners is just impressive.
this proves his pure talent and driving abilities and we all are very lucky to have lived and followed this legend during these years.....
wildheart1860 2 years ago
4,109 seconds faster than JJ Lehto, his teammate..
wtf?
OreillyORLY 2 years ago
Great car control by Schumi there.
MSx91 2 years ago
yep, now that the King was dead, Schumacher had all his career laid out for him, oh well.
onixya1969 2 years ago
that was a good day
MrCardboardbox360 2 years ago
Ok!
Thanks for clearing that up because then we BOTH agree...the Honda was better, not question about that! :-)
But for a moment, with some of the things you said, it sounded to me like you meant that it was better ONLY because it was a V12!!!...because a V8 with same displacement could be just as good! (but this particular V8 was not)
But I guess I misunderstood you!
Cheers! :-)
Michaelingolfhansen 2 years ago
A V12 has 4 more cylinders, yes!
But that does not mean its a more powerfull engine than a V8 with the same displacement!!!
The real size of the engine is the displacement!
Otherwise ALL teams would be running V12's in the 3.5 era!
But in fact there were V8's, V10's and V12's...all with different power and torque caracteristics due to their different design!
It's not as siple as: more cylinders, the better!
That Honda engine was great, but again not because it was a V12!
Michaelingolfhansen 2 years ago
ok schuey cheated a few times but senna was no saint either (on the racetrack).
varps44 2 years ago
Those who know F1, just by looking at trajectories, can say without doubt that, yes, Schumacher is a good pilot, but he is certainly not the best. For example, take a look at the qualifying lap of Senna at Monaco: 0.6 s diff with Prost only at the siwmming pool entry, the most difficult curve(today destroyed by damned FIA) of Monaco.Look how much space Schum leaves with rails, even at the chicane.The Mika's flying lap at Monaco in 1994 was a bigger perofrmance than Schum's pole.
GTAGIS 2 years ago
I was not the one who gave you thumbs down, but remember that with this car, he would not have to push over the limit and take too many chances...like Mika ex.
Also if I remember correctly this year they qaulified on racefuel, so it was deceptive who was fast or slow they were, due to not knowing their fuel levels!
He could be very heavy on this lap!?
Michaelingolfhansen 2 years ago
You should know that qualifying at that time was true qualifying, with just enough fuel for qualifying lap, with 12 laps per session. 1 anecdot : Senna in 1993 qualified with fuel for 2 qualifying rounds, ie approximatively 6/8 laps, because there is generally fuel for 1 exit, 1 entry and 1 or2 qualifying lap. it was a mistake from McLaren. Suzuka, 0.6/0.62 for 10kg. Less at Monaco.of course, I m talking about 93.I think i Know F1 and believe me or not, Schum hasn't the level of Senna.
GTAGIS 2 years ago
Are you sure that the fuel regulations was not changes exactly prior to the 1994 season!?
I admit I might be wrong, but I believe there was at least some kind of changes in fuel regulations prior to 94!?...but it might be something else im thinking about!
Can you rembemer or check, what it could be?
Michaelingolfhansen 2 years ago
Refuelling was forbiden in 1983 because of fire in Monaco 1982 (Rosberg if I am right).It was reintroduce in 1994, but the rules remain the same for qualifying, as it was before:2 qualif session, 12 laps per session that you can manage as you want. in 95,they transformed the friday qualifying session into a free session, so only saturday and 12 laps remained.the rule remain the same until 2003, when qualifying become completly ridiculous with 1 run/driver.
GTAGIS 2 years ago
Ok! Thanks for clearing that up! Cheers!
Michaelingolfhansen 2 years ago
you're welcome.
GTAGIS 2 years ago
"the rule remain the same until 2003, when qualifying become completly ridiculous with 1 run/driver." Indeed :)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
until 91, drivers had special qualifying tyres, which was forbiden in 92. Qualifying was really something amazing and all of this doesn't really exist now. About refuelling in 94, it was reintroduce to copy Indycar with promises of action and also, in fact to give a help to Ferrari, because refuelling would limit that weight problem due to V12 needing more fuel.Moreover FIA and stupids guys like Mosley needs each year to introduce something,justifying their role.
GTAGIS 2 years ago
og god. not another one of these
kkcrumbles 2 years ago
The problem was Mika´s Mclaren back in 94 woudn´t go where he wanted it to. if so, the story would have been diferent;)
Tuscopa 2 years ago
All your bickerings are laughable. Senna and Schumacher are two of the best ever F1 drivers to have lived FACT. They both employed what some would call "dirty tactics" but so what??!
To comments below: Yes Schumacher did have more power for much of the 1993season than Senna, but the Mclaren Chassis was pretty good, probably better or equal to the Bennettons.
Use of TC and LC talk in 1994 is bullshit. I guess you're calling Flavio, Ross Brawn and Pat Symonds cheats then???!
PiNInFarina18 2 years ago
years after, schumachers 1994 benetton was found to have a hidden lauch control software
1greenMitsi 2 years ago 3
But not demonstrated that Schumacher used it.
MSx91 2 years ago
yeah ofcourse not...they just had it all hidden there for no reason :)
Senna himself actually thought the Benettons had 'strange noises coming from them' after he retired from the race previous to his death and stood on the side of the track while the race continued for a while
1greenMitsi 2 years ago 2
There was an option hidden in the legal software of the car, activated doing a procedure with the steering wheel and the pedals. But according with Benetton team, this was used only in tests. FIA and an electronic company working with them, never prooved that this software option was used.
MSx91 2 years ago
it was never proved that oj simpson killed his wife too
clairedebooy 2 years ago
The point is/was, no iliegal hardware/software was allowed on the cars back in 94, relating the 94cahnged rules. So the hardware/software was iliegally on the Benettons.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
perhaps that's just Schumacher's throttle control? hah.
shoemichael 2 years ago
"yeah ofcourse not...they just had it all hidden there for no reason :)" Yhea, indeed man.Since we are at christmas time, some people must still believe in santa :);). Of course they were using it.
Tuscopa 2 years ago
ppl...stop making stupid comments...Senna still on top, Shumacher was good just because Ferrari...Even Barrichelo won L O L...ThanksTO FERRARI...You need ballz to race, and now days its easier than before..Shumi fans, Why shumacher wasnt better than Senna years back...???HE GOT NO FUKN TITTLE AND HE WASNT FASTER THAN SENNA.-..STILL THE SAME THING, HES ON TOP THANKS TO SENNAS DEATH.Shumacher sucks and he cheats
andalamielda 2 years ago 2
you're an idiot ..in 1993 schumacher was the mist successful driver. in this 2nd ever season he always finished podium in a bad working bennetton ... 1 year later he won a title in the very same bad bennetton, although he wasn't allowed to drive for 3 raced ..in 1996 ferrari was nearly out of racing .. bad situation, bad car ...schumacher started to improve the team who was at the ground ..5 years later the improvement was big enough for the next title..then they became unstopable because of MSC
Streitstarter 2 years ago