USA 4 x 100m relay 1964 Tokyo Olympics World Record

[ronpaulforpresident6]

Hayes ran as fast as he had to. This 8.5 or so relay leg by Hayes is crazy crazy stuff. I would give my 2nd kidney to see a Bolt/Hayes 100M final on a dirt cinder track

[easyjesus66]

I guess what is so great about Hayes.....he could run a 10.5 100 in full gear.....after getting checked on the line and still catch a TD......could Bolt even get off the line of scrimmage?

[mark92691]

USA third man, Richard Stebbins, said that, at the instant he passed the baton to Hayes, "I could feel the force of him about to explode."

Re: Hayes "never broke 10" - He ran a wind-aided 9.91 in the Olympic semi-finals.

I'm not sure he could beat Usain Bolt, but I'm pretty sure he could have beaten everyone else until Bolt.

[susspuss]

with all respect, it's impossible, that a man who never broke 10 second barrier, did this in 8.5 (or 8.74 if you want)... today we have a bunch of sub 9,8 men, who have run 8.7 and 8.8 in relays... this just doesn't make any sense...

[TheMrMonkee]

@susspuss i just read him up. He ran in lane 1 for his 10.06 olympic gold. The lane was ripped apart due to the 10km walk the day before. He borrowed a pair of spikes due to someone kicking his under the bed while he was chilling with friends. So he couldnt find them. No excuses he won at 20 years old

[onokaoonokao]

@TheMrMonkee yeah, wikipedia, the beacon of accurate and detailed information. It still says that osama is behind 9.11. on wikipedia lol.

[boomboombam6]

@onokaoonokao Osama and al Qaeda were behind 9/11. So I guess Wikipedia is more accurate than you thought.

[dovespin1]

What the hell! They were still running on dirt in 1964?

[MrQlo5]

i bet at least one nfl player can run as fast as bullet bob with training

[kingfish4242]

@bcozigothigh indeed, when you make the great Vince Lombardi change his defense,you're special. Hayes is also the reason teams started drafting smaller and faster Db's as opposed to the big run stuffer types that dominated the 1960's NFL. We hear all the time how modern players are much bigger and faster,but that's not necessarily true. The only major difference is among the lines. Cb's in the 60's usually outweighed their modern counterparts by 20+ lbs.

[squillymanser]

he was so fast that when he joined american football they had to change their entire defensive tactics just to stop him!!!!

[pbrucpaul]

I remember seeing that last leg back then and marveling at the powerful acceleration Hayes had.

[CaneFu]

Usain Bolt has no doubt run faster by now; it's just that electronic timing is more accurate & results in slower times for the runners. outonyec is correct in pointing the inaccuracy of hand timing because of the human reaction time punching the stopwatch. Bob Hayes was the best of this time but that was almost 50 years ago & it isn't realistic to say he's still the best. Bolt has run an electronically timed 100 meters almost a half second faster at 9.58 while Bob Hayes never broke 10 seconds.

[otuonyec]

You people are retarded. Bolts fastest time in a relay is 8.79 and this is electronically. Hand timing is extremelay inaccurate. The slowness of the handkeeper's reaction time added to the fact that they have a running start making it harder for the hand timer to know when to start makes this whole "8.5" thing utter shit.

[Boassful]

@otuonyec Bob HAYES, 21 Years, 8"5, CENDER piste THAT'S VERY INCREDIBLE!!!

[dawgyblack]

Are these ppl serious no way this man would be faster than bolt... 9.58 is no small thing. I think if bob Hayes was around he would be running low 9.7s or a 9.68 at best. Just watch bolt this august in world championship in south korea and watch him break that record again and you will see the man is simply the best of all time...

[JamRoca]

@dawgyblack Indeed as am a bit bewildered as to why they deemed it necessary to rather undermine is track achievements...people need to be rationale in any such comparison of 50 years and present (technology, rulings etc - usain bolt's training facilities are also actually quite basic further pointed out via recent sky sports interview)

[blckchip]

As a contemporary of "Bullet Bob"and having run (well behind) against him, I have to believe he was the fastest ever. His Tokyo leg averaged 24.5 mph! He was a notoriously slow starter, unlike Bold who somehow manages to unfurl 6' 5" apace of his competition. If the "fastest" is judged not over any distance, but as instantaneous"speed my money would be on Hayes today.

[MrSticksb]

Hayes was a football halfback(Fla.A&M) and hardly trained on cinder tracks .You

can't say this or that would happen if he ran today , but what he did in the 64' 200

meters bordered on the impossible. He spotted the opposition 3 meters and won

by 3 meters . His final leg with a flying start was estimated at 8.6 seconds by the

Tokyo officials...

[use2slam2]

anybody out there have a clip from back in 73-74 of a CBS special called CBS PRO

FOOTBALL OLYMPIAD. it had differant compititions for passing,punting,etc. and had a 60 yd dash on grass with hayes age 31 and looking chunky running against john gilliam,mercury morris,herb mul-key,issac curtis etc. hayes beat these guys SO bad it wasn't even close ! anyone remember ?

[AllanWellsfanclub]

I totally agree with knowitall1975.

[trackfan53]

It is difficult to compare sprinters from 2 different eras and determine who is faster. If you look at just the times than I think Usain has the nod, however... Consider that Hayes was only 21 yrs old, only ran 3 months a year during college because he was primarily a football player and ran on cinder, not the super fast tracks we have now. Training and nutrition is much different and the coaching was not the quality it is today. I think Hayes potential rivaled or exceeded Bolt's.

[sonofthedestroyer]

The commentator sounded constipated with excitement: Americanu asdafjddfkjfhakfa americanu...........

[puljacina]

something tells me that hayes would destroy powell today on a track like beijing

[hernandovalerio]

@puljacina Something tells me that Powell never had or will have the control of his nerves in top competition. He stay in the start line already defeted before the race.

[puljacina]

@hernandovalerio his last chance to win a big title was in osaka,maybe even in beijing.he will never be a champion,period!!

[andrewjhendren]

my geography teacher in 6th grade was # 707 for the americans. His name is Richard Stebbins, and the kids who got A's wore his gold medal from this race. When i put on the medal, it was the happiest time of my life.

[HamiltonHigh20]

Bob Hayes was the fastest human ever. Bolt doesn't have to run on a dirt track.

[THB79]

I still say Bob could have run as fast as he wanted to.

[SPMYKET]

Richard Stebbins ran the 3rd leg of this race for the USA. He is now a 6th grade teacher in Maryland. I loved his classes! He would sometimes let us wear his gold medal.

[PackedFunk]

Let us not forget that Hayes shoes were lost & he used Joe Frazer's running shoes to do this incedible feat, even though they were a size too small.

The legend of Bullet Bob Hayes is a feat that we will never see again.

[broadjumper1]

You've got that story slightly wrong, the story goes: "During some messing around in the village between Hayes, Ralph Boston and Joe Frazier, one of Hayes' spikes was kicked under a bed. He didn't realise this until he got to the stadium, and he had to run in borrowed spikes."

Since Joe Frazier was a boxer, what would he be doing with a pair of track spikes?

[leahcimber]

"Bullet" Bob Hayes. A champ and aptly named.

[rmrooster01]

I cant stand all the speculation and assumptions. Jesse Owens wasnt much slower than Hayes.... Did he take PED'S? Comon... Hes clean.

[kingfish4242]

RIP Bullet Bob Hayes

[DashieMGO]

Excelente participacion de la cuarteta de Venezuela en su segunda final olimpica consecutiva . Podria los foristas indicar el nombre los atletas

[AntillRS]

Maybe its because no-one cares very much for speculating on what happened 40 years ago. In the grand scheme of things, It isn't going to change much.

[rcaddict72]

obviously some ppl do care, otherwise there wouldnt be a thread. the point is that drug use in the 60s was much more prevalent than it is today. like i said, drugs were part of a track routine...no testing was done either. thats why the performances were incredible. ive seen routines published in books that have the training regimen, plus the dosing...and these are college and elite athlete journals...not just eastern block government programmes.

[AntillRS]

You cant be sure of anything. You are just making guesses. And it will change nothing.

[rock0052]

@rcaddict72

You're exactly right. People don't want to hear about it today because they take it as slandering past accomplishments, but the truth is that there was no stigma against the use of performance enhancing drugs at the time. Why wouldn't the athletes have used them?

[rcaddict72]

im so glad that some people at YT can be objective and also knowledgable. The absolute majority here will just argue their BS until blue in the face and wont go and find the facts before flapping their mouths (fingers). FTR of the training regimes i looked at during my thesis it was a regular occurrence to see track and plyometrics (basic form of), and weights with an actual drug taking component (i.e. 2 dianabol tabs after morning session, 1 in morn/night on day off, etc.).

[bayhollywood]

@rcaddict72 Bob Hayes from the all black and poor Florida A&M got his power from racing up the near vertical Horror Hill for 3 years and he was always first. Google Bob Hayes SI Vault article on page 5.

[rcaddict72]

@bayhollywood ..im sure he did..but steroids were an accepted part of t&f in the 60s. its not a dig at him- its reality.

[rcaddict72]

this whole fucking thread shits me...oh for some intelligent conversation...

[bayhollywood]

@rcaddict72 Not me! i like your post.

[flamdros]

Actually Asafa has the fastest relay split 8.70 in beijijng

[rcaddict72]

thats true, BUT...Usain Bolt ran the LAST 100m of his 150m in manchester in 8.72 in 13C temp and rain and out of season. The splits suggest he ran a 100m portion in under 8.4s. He also was the first ever to run a sub 10s split on his third leg...where most generally accept that the conversion is -0.3s or greater... as fast as powell and hayes were...Bolt is the new standard. and will make 8.7s seem pedestrian.

[bayhollywood]

@rcaddict72 On a relay leg you don't reach full speed on the hand off, Bolt's 8.72 was at top speed. Hayes also ran a 7.8 flying 100 yards which converts to 8.51-8.55 range 100 meters. How much faster are these's Mondo tracks to cinder? no one will tell you. Yes Bolt will make 8.7s seem pedestrian, subtract 1 second from your 100m time for Bolt thats 8.58!!!!!!!

[rcaddict72]

@bayhollywood ..Bolt ran his 8.72 at far less than top speed as it was a 50-150m split. in relays, you are almost at top speed when you get the baton..thats the whole idea. A better comparison would be taking asafa's 8.70 and then subtracting Bolt's top speed from it- which is 0.02-0.03s/10m. giving him around an 8.5 flying 100m. Hayes' top speed was estimated from video at 0.84/10m which is far less than Bolt's 0.80. Hayes 7.8 100y was also hand timed so it is really a 8.04electronic.

[bayhollywood]

@rcaddict72 Bolt's 10m splits Berlin 2009 0-10m=1.89 10-20m=0.99 20-30m=0.90 30-40m=0.86 40-50m=0.83 (as you can see Bolt near top speed at 50m) 50-60m=0.82 60-70m=0.81 70-80m=0.82 80-90m=0.83 90-100m=0.83 =9.58 (i estimate his next 10m at 0.84 or 0.85 he has to start slowing which gives him a flying 100m in 8.53 or 8.54!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that's how you figure the flying 100m (with no baton)

[bayhollywood]

@flamdros Hayes said on Olympic Cowboy that he was hand timed in 8.4 and auto-electric timed in 8.6. Asafa ran on the fastest Mondo FTX Track ever made in Bejing and still came up short. In the split-screen video with Hayes and Carl Lewis when Lewis ran 8.8 Hayes beat him by 2 meters.

[phastman1994]

@bayhollywood Hayes ran a hand-timed 8.5, Powell ran an official 8.7.

[AntillRS]

Agreed. The tracks today produce much faster times which is why you can't compare a time that was set 40 years ago with one set today. They have nothing in common. It's unfair to compare Bolt with Hayes, or even with Carl Lewis because although sprinting looks so simple and pure, there are MASSIVE differences between then and now which have a bearing on times. Not all athletes use drugs, and it certainly isn't a fact that in 1964 ALL athletes were doping.

[rcaddict72]

i think you've proven exactly the point i am making. Here we have a human being, running on cinders, probably eating a relatively high fat diet, with little quality food compared to today, following low tech training regimen, probably consisting of minimal resistance training, and without the assistance of the same knowledge base of today- and yet he STILL runs arguably as quick as they do today. This can be said for many athletes in the 60s and 70s. So what was going on then?

[quadbravo]

Cinder is "that slow" compared to tartan and spikes today. I ran on both. To suggest that "all athletes' doped in the 60's is a stretch. Maybe post the "manual" you're referencing. I have never heard of it. I say we put Bolt on cinder, 140 gram spikes, wrong size. oh yeah and give him socks too.

[rcaddict72]

i used to ;post as bnewman...but my son got shirty with me. in the early 1980s i attended a sports college and one of my major projects was to investigate drugs in sport. I found numerous references to drug use as part of training regimens for that activity. it was very well known and generally accepted in the 1960s. i am a strong believer in that the sport is very clean now...but i also believe that, from what i found, and more, 90%+ used drugs in the 1960s and 1970s.

[bayhollywood]

@rcaddict72 I to believe Bolt is clean! but also Bob Hayes from a dirt poor Florida A&M got his power from racing up a near vertical Horror Hill. For 3 years he was always first. Google (Bob Hayes SI Vault) the article is on page 5.

[bayhollywood]

@rcaddict72 I can believe that some track man doped in the 60's & 70's etc rcaddict72. but if you win 48 100yd/100m finals in a row like Hayes or have the edge Bolt has 6'5' 9 feet 8 inch stride why cheat. Now for the rest nothing would surprise me.

[rcaddict72]

@bayhollywood ..because it wasnt considered cheating back then.

[bumpy121]

I know him i went to the skool and he waz my 6th grade tacher he brought in his gold medal 2 show us

[joelruns]

Bob Hayes, cinder track, wrong spikes, lane 1 which was torn up by the distance runners, 10.0 after training as a side sport from football over 40 years ago. Bob Hayes, cinder track, outside lane, coming from like 5th place, 8.5 with less track experience than most college athletes today. Yep.

[noonan94]

@joelruns high much?

[marmar3291]

@joelruns damn.. 8.5?

[joelruns]

@marmar3291 It was a hand time for his leg but 4x100 leg times are difficult to time and the reason its so fast is because athletes have a running start. Generally there's been a range given for estimates on his leg. I think 8.5 seconds was a median of the times.

[goldenvenus]

Bob Hayes 8.9 second standing leg. No more to be said.

[vipipnet]

Richard Stebbins, the first runner, was my middle school teacher. He still teaches social studies at Mayfield Woods Middle in Elkridge, MD. He even let me wear his gold medal once because I was such a good student. He's a man of amazing character. Everyone hated him but I loved him. He's very deep and intelligent.

[knowitall1975]

Bob Hayes did all this on the old cinder tracks...If hayes had the technology back then that we have now...Hayes would have ran under 9 seconds...Still to this day...He's the fastest man to ever live in my opinion...No disrespect to Bolt, Powell, Gay or Lewis...But Bob Hayes was one special guy.

[danny941016]

running under 9 is impossible "today" it was estimated that had he had today's technology and trained completely in track he would run in the low 9.7s - the highs 9.6s so basically he would be Usain bolt statis right now which is incredible but certinaly not sub 9...

[bnewman227]

lets stick to facts. in 1964 all the athletes were using steroids as it was part of their usual routine. you can look up many training manuals of the day and they even included dosing regimens. Sure, cinder is slower, but its not that slow. Maybe he was still the fastest to have ever lived until 2009. Bolt is now. it is the era of Usain.

[noonan94]

@knowitall1975 are you high?

[stonekeeper86]

@knowitall1975 I'm glad I'm not the only one who believes this. I met him years ago in Ft. Worth, Tx. when I was a kid. He was so gracious and humble. I believe, with todays tech., he would blow Bolts ass away!! And all the rest too!!

[craig1108]

@knowitall1975 Sorry but that's just wrong. Sure if he had all the things we had today he would run faster, but you don't lose a whole second. In the 1984 olympics I think it was a lot of the athletes that unashamedly used steroids ALOT (then got banned shortly after) wern't even running faster than Bolt now.

[puljacina]

@knowitall1975 under 9 sec??? what are u smokin?

[404Orion]

@knowitall1975 Yea Bob Hayes was a Special guy & he has a cult following in track & field a lot of whats spoken of him now is fantasy , if he had better shoes, better track , better training ,etc. he would've done this of that "No disrespect to Bob Hayes" but he could'nt beat Gay or Powell & Usain Bolt forget it !! ,

[liamg353]

@knowitall1975 agree, he was my 1st athletics hero and in todays conditions! who knows what he would achieve.

[jonnybravo8]

@knowitall1975 Yeah....fastest man ever. He never broke 10. No spikes or track would give him 1 sek faster time. You are so delusional, hilarious.

[fearstreetsaga]

It's getting beatin in the 2008 Beijing Olympics.

[bmplefour]

No. I'm very clever.

[rbbgolfer]

I saw this race as a 13-year old and it is STILL my most vivid sports event ever! What Bob Hayes did here is almost beyond belief!

[JRBnTEXAS7]

I saw him too,and I still believe Hayes leg of the 4X100 was fastest of all time including Bolt in 2008 Olympics.

[danny941016]

Usain bolt didn't run the last leg of the Olympics Asafa Powell did which was clocked in at 8.7 electronically and since Bob's time was 8.6-8.9 hand timed it would have been at best the same time as asafa powells 4X100 relay split

[bnewman227]

an 8.5s e time is a 8.3 hand timed.

btw bolt ran 8.95 on the bend. thats an 8.6 hand timed. athletes generally run 0.2-0.3 slower than on the straight. So Bolt's effort was about a 8.4-8.5 which is freaky fast as powell and lewis hold the unofficial relay records at 8.86s. oh, jointly by mo greene.

[knowitall1975]

AND HOW DO YOU know that BOLT isn't on roids...

[bnewman227]

a thing called retrospective testing AND the fact that sprinting hasnt progressed for years due to the retracting drug cloud...his run puts it right where it should be by now...a bunch of reasons. anyone who cheats now needs their heads read. there's no escaping the tests when they keep your blood on ice for years.

[knowitall1975]

There's alot of drugs that still can't be found in the system...Remember the drug called the "Clear" was only recently able to be detected...It makes me wonder if Carl Lewis was on drugs as well....I personally think covering 110 yards (100m) in less than 10 seconds...impossible without something...

[bnewman227]

do you know what retro testing is?...the point is that ther most exotic of substances are required these days to beat the test. They dont just test for banned substances, they test for anomalies as well..masking agents and other more physiological indicators. The clear was the only thing you could get- retro testing will correct this...and so on., if ppl use today they are either very stupid, or have a tight trust circle and experts. btw many ppl have run sub 10 drug free.

[quadbravo]

Look up BALCO. This was a drug company that developed undetectable performance enhancers. Their managment is most suspicious of Jamaica citing a lack of testing standards there. Two female Jamaican hurdlers were indicted last year. Heck, Asafa Powell's brother has been linked to steroids with proof of purchases. Do you not think science and the need to cheat advances each year. Every year we hear you can't cheat anymore and then we wait and read about indictments and convictions.

[rcaddict72]

look up balco?...do you think im speaking like this without knowing about balco?..fact is that its as clean as ever. sure, maybe some will run the gauntlet. but why risk being busted in a decade's time?..or longer?...seems pretty silly to me.

[rcaddict72]

Carl Lewis progressed 0.07 seconds over a decade from the early 1980s to the early 1990s..then he managed 0.06 better to win in tokyo. His 200m times didnt improve at all from 1983 until retirement. That to me sounds like a pretty clean athlete..or at least one who's performances dont scream "suspicious"...

[rcaddict72]

because human psychii requires 2 things..motive and opportunity. Bolt doesnt have motive..he's been winning since he could walk. opportunity he does have. but you need both to go to the dark side..

[bayhollywood]

@rcaddict72 Hayes won 48 100yd/100m finals in a row!!! Hayes was winning since he could walk. rcaddict72 where is Bob Hayes motive?

[rcaddict72]

@bayhollywood ..no motive required in the 60s..they werent tested, and they all used it openly. they also werent convinced that more meant going faster. it was all still very new and empirical. What they did know was that it did make them faster..and significantly so. Applying today's criteria to then doesnt make sense.

[bayhollywood]

@knowitall1975 When you can beat 99% of the guys out their running backwards whats the point! 6'5" 9 feet 8 inch stride only 41 strides to cover 100 meters that's why!! Will some people always cheat of course look at these idiots in the NFL. Some day Bolt's records will be broke and 40 years from now they will tell you why their man is better. Of course they will gloss over the DNA manipulation and the new tracks made by a leading trampoline company!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bayhollywood]

@bnewman227 I believe Bolt's bend was 8.89 and if so you could argue that was the fastest 100m ever depending on the wind of course.

[noonan94]

@bayhollywood asafa powell ran 8.7

[bayhollywood]

@danny941016 Hayes said on Olympic Cowboy 8.4 hand timed and 8.6 electronic.

[canesfan22]

Are you nuts?