Harrison mentions that the LCMS is on the same train as the ELCA, but with him in charge it should at least delay it for much longer, I hope that he can be remembered as the next Preuss.
Why is it so hard for people to understand the difference in God's Grace and the use of the third use of the Law? Yes, we accept all people with open arms into our Church's. But, that does not mean we appease our beliefs to accept their wrongful way of life whether its being gay or an adulteror. That also give us no room to judge but to rather help bring them into Gods light, through the use of scripture to display Gods grace and forgivness and explain his law.
thank god we're not like.... reminescent of Jesus parable
The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.
Bottom line is you are loved. God sent His Only Son to die on the cross that whoever puts their faith in Him (Jesus) will be saved. See John 3:16 AND 17. Also read throughout Romans. You can have real hope in Christ. And I do care about you, too!!
Well it looks like the schism of the 1970's is STILL alive and well in 2011. I was a young adult at the time and I left the LCMS in 1981 and have never nor will I ever return to ANY Lutheran church Instead of soberly and maturely resolving this, the two sides fought like the Devil for what they thought was a heavenly cause. Many years, much independent reading from many different angles and many conclusion drawn. On Luther? An idiot, a theological dilettante and a rabid anti-semite.
Dear readers. I understand that there are a lot of people who seem to put homosexuality in the spotlight as if it is a sin greater than any other sin. But maybe the reason that homosexuality is in the spotlight is because it is being placed on our television shows and in our churches as something that God has no problem with. But Scripture is clear that Homosexuality is a sin and should be confessed as such. Remember all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.
@REVKOEHLER A sin? There is no where in scripture stating that. Everyone fails to look into the greek translation. Its just a very convenient way to quote a modern bible that agree's with what you classify as sinful. But then I guess homosexuals should not be glorified in the media because they are not people. Just as women are put in "their place" in the LCMS.
Interesting. I have just come from a time in LCMS in my area. 5 are closing. I can see why. The LCMS people I know really do not know the Bible at all. They don't know much of anything. It shocked me, but it's the truth. LCMS witness is weak, and non-existent here. I would agree that LCMS shows "arrogance, lack of charity and unkindness"as was stated. It's Pastors and Elders cannot love or agree and keep any unity of peace. What I see is very dead orthodoxy with no love in it. Very sad.
@JesusNonEnviromental You are so ignorant.You seem to know nothing of the Lutheran Church,so don't judge it.Every single thing you said is incorrect! Lutherans believe one is saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.Luther followed the Bible and was sent by God.If you don't agree w/ Baptism or the Lord's Supper, that's your right. I guess that's why we have thousands of denominations.Read Luther's Catechism.You might be astonished by all the scriptual references.TotallyBiblical!Who r u2judge
@waltherchemnitz Thank you for standing firm on the Word of God!! We're not the haters. That's Satan's thing (being the liar, the thief, and the murderer that he is). So sad how so many can't understand that. God bless you and the LCMS!! I love this synod! There is no hate here, people. We are all sinners who need to repent and believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior!
@VivaLaKelsey Yes Jesus did love the outcasts and sinners, part of loving the outcast and the sinners is to point out to them what they are doing wrong ( ie homosexual practices) help them find their way to repentance and than rejoice that Christ loves them enough that he died in their place and rose again to wash away their sin. in other words HATE the SIN, LOVE the SINNER. It is not the practioner of homosexuality we are against but the practice.
@tgltyty part of Love is NOT judgment - Judgment belongs to God - not you. Jesus fellowshipped with sinners because his mission was to save them - not condemn them - like you are complacently doing - he allowed Himself to be identified with them - not like you are self-righteously doing - it's an easy thing to judge those not like us - but your detachment from sinners - is profoundly un-Christian because it is profoundly un-Christ-like.
You need to celebrate your growing diversity-what are you up to now, nearly 3% people of color? You'll have to run really hard to catch up to the ELCA-they're at nearly 3.4%!
Thanks for the correction. I didn't think you were in the ELCA and I don't care one way or the other. And you haven't mentioned anything I said, except to say that you find it rude. Which means it's inaccurate-how?
The ELCA is a cancer of the Lutheran Theology that men are saved by sacraments. Any Homosexual who is baptized and participates in the Lords Supper is considered saved and filled with the Holy Spirit by Lutheran Doctrine. This type of doctrine of works gives birth to this type of faith of works and demonstrates that false doctrine breads apostacy. The Lutheran church is as corrupt as the Catholic and Episcopal churches. Homosexuality has found a home in these false churches
Jesus prayed that we all might be one----yet-----in this world of sin it is a challenge to us as Christians. We are buffeted about by sin and satan--and we turn against one another. We do have to stand by our beliefs---we have to---but we must never give up on our brothers who disagree. We must pray that we all might have greater light, as now "see we dimly as in a mirror'.
@biry0501 From what I understand, ELCA includes abortion on demand in their health care coverage, preaches the historic heresy of universalism, allows openly gay pastors, and has reduced the number of missionaries abroad by 60% since the social gospel has overtaken the true gospel! The ELCA is a whitewashed tomb, nice on the outside, with decaying doctrine on the inside.
@HailZeon57 Those are interesting perceptions based on half truths, non-truths, and differing opinions. The reason I am happy to be in the ELCA, is because I am a Lutheran. And as much as we do not always agree with one another, as a Lutheran I refuse to capitulate to the American "Evangelical" Fundamentalist biblical hermaneutic, as has the LCMS. The LCMS may as well join the Southern Baptist Convention as far as doctrine.
I attended a Missouri Lutheran Synod school for two years for junior high and those two years of their doctrine just COMPLETELY turned me off to that particular synod. Plus, the members of that church (in Anaheim,CA) were just THE coldest and rudest ppl I have ever met....it's a wonder to me that that particular congregation is still open because I know that they have turned a LOT of ppl off.
Does anyone else know that both the ELCA and the Missouri Synod Lutherans will continue to shrink until they disappear about the year 2050? That you've got catastrophic low membership among those under 30 and that you're both about 96% White in a country that will be majority-minority by 2060? Anyone else notice these facts? To this atheist, you look like two old ladies fighting over deck chairs on the "Titanic".
Thank god we are not them? Referring to the ELCA I take it. Hating on another Lutheran Church is ridiculous. We both worship God, If you don't like gay pastors then don't hire them. You don't have to bash them just because they aren't the norm or the same as you just because they like men.
@mrjkdeyoung; Who said that the ELCA is justifying it. They never said that sin is ok. they are only searching for opportunities for the GLBT community to feel welcome in church. and who is to say that homosexuals are unrepentant. I believe many, not all, but many, are repentant. Just as I am repentant for my sin that so often I find myself comitting the same sin over and over again as I am positive all christians do.
Simple, a biggoted, backward church. In 1977, Concordia Publishing House taught that adolescents who masturbate are commiting a horrible sin. In fact the word masturbation was scripted in sinister letters. They also backed the idea that inter-racial marriage is not ideal. They used the reasoning on how this is difficult for the children. This is not a principled church getting their marching orders from God. Now God and many others are saying, "Shame on You!!!!!"
@crazyzabo who gives a rat's what either you or these Missouri Synod people do . You're both going the way of the Shakers, into irrelevance. Mainline Protestantism, of all stripes, is shrinking away faster than a pie put in front of a hungry Michael Moore.
@NixonisLord OK, the beliefs of church members has not barring on social policy. As an atheist, you should be concerned with those who would codify religious beliefs into secular law. And, yes, religion and more specifically Lutheranism does bare on social policy. Jee wiz, I know shakers don't screw and, apparently Michael Moore would enjoy a pie, so...?
@crazyzabo It's "bearing", not "barring". Or "bare". And I have no wish to see religious "law" introduced into secular law. I don't care if it's anti-abortion or total amnesty for all illegal aliens. You and the ELCA deserve each other. You're like to kids seeing who has better clothes for your dolls and better names for your invisible friends. "Shakers don't screw"? No, but they did convert. Once people realized that they were truly strange, they declined-quickly. Just like you.
@NixonisLord Thanks for noticing the spelling and it's two not to kids, I'm not in the ELCA and I truly do not understand you. I also will not tolerate rudeness, so communication is over.
@crazyzabo You need to celebrate your diversity and stop worrying about the kaine ktisis of the pleroma of the parousia and praxis and best practices! That sentence made as much sense as anything coming out of any religion today.
@HailZeon57 I suppose you can argue that eating or drinking is a selfish act. In fact, I feel that complete celibacy is almost an impossible standard. It seems that having a safe outlet is better than the consequences of unintended pregnancies, diseases and difficult emotional attachments. I think there is a danger in the idea of "god on the shoulder" thinking versus the love from God radiating through us. Something, admittingly, I'm working on. God bless you.
@crazyzabo Masturbation only adds to your desire for sex. If you actually claim to be a Christian, blow the dust off your Bible, open it up, and start reading about how God can help you overcome it.
You need to check the postings of one of your Pastors the Rev Ft Philip Mullen who is posting some really discusting comments on You tube which include gloating over the death of two teenagers, calling them fags. insighting others to murder, bosting hes a member of The Tea Party & suports BNP neo nazi party that deny the holocuost- You may not approve of gays however I assume you have some integrity about Hate messages - he goes by the handle of USAsoldier1955's
Here to pass judgement as you are obvously. You make it seem like God hates those who do not "do what is right". If it wasn't for Jesus we would all be going to hell.
Also do you take the bible word for word? And if so is it a bible written in English? If you want to read the most close to actual translation of the bible read it on greek or latin.
He won't be buring in hell like you say, and neither will you; because of Jesus.
@andrewflatt17, Actually, the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. There are a few translations who paid special attention and refused to "jump on the bandwagon" and paraphrase like others do. It's also easier to read literarily, meaning to allow the context of the passage as well as the whole of the entirety of the Bible to read what is meant. The Scriptures stand up pretty much for themselves without outside interpretation.
God said in His Word that those that take pleasure in those that commit such sins are going to get the same condemnation as the people that do the sins. Repent and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ while you can, if you can. Let God be true and every man a liar. ( warnings of wrath . com )
I am not homosexual, but I am a proud ELCA member!! I am for homosexual relations including marriage! Have you ever taken theolocial claases? Or Bible in depth looks, you may be surprized what you learn. Don't bash someone who loves and cares about the same God you do.
I'm saddened by the bigotry in comments here, and in this video. I applaud the ELCA's decision. As a gay person who has felt despised by the church and by holier-than-thou Christians who rant about my "lifestyle" while remaining deafeningly silent on divorce and remarriage and other issues, I see Christianity as becoming less about Christ, and more about judging and condemning everyone who isn't "us." Thank God for the Episcopal Church!
@jajohnson7809 I understand how hateful a lot of Christians are about this. In fact, on Radical Grace Radio, we just did a show called "how to improve your Christian Hate Life" Which is a corrective for people like that. You have to understand, however, that the ELCA doesn't believe the Gospel anymore. It's what is taught in their seminaries. For instance, when you mention divorce and remarriage... you should check who says what.
@jajohnson7809 Of course, to deny that Christ also held people accountable for their sins is also not to be ignored. In fact, 'I'm saddened' by the inability of some people to understand that a simple 'I oppose homosexuality' does not mean 'I hate homosexuals.' Scripture, in its entirety speaks out against 'unnatural' sexual relations. While there may be too much 'judging and condemning' there is 1) too much 'I don't care what the Bible says 2) not enough accountability to God's Word
@jajohnson7809 homosexual lifystyle is wrong. the scriptures say that those that remain in this lyfestyke will go to hell when they die christians dont hate you they love you. they love you enough to inform you of the end result of your life style.
I've got news for you, you are despised by God Almighty. Your only hope is to repent of all sin ( including homosexuality) and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. ( warnings of wrath . com )
Then basically you have chosen your wicked sin instead of submitting to the righteousness of God. That is a choice you will regret throughout all eternity in the Fire. ( warnings of wrath . com )
@jajohnson7809, God did not create homosexuality. Like everything else, human sexuality and what God had planned for it way back in Genisis 2:24 was tainted and corrupted by the Fall into sin. Thus the attack on His design on marriage and the family, the most basic unit of society, began. Satan is intent on destroying God's image on Earth. And anyone can fall into his trappings.
It is through Christ alone we have complete forgiveness of sins.
@jajohnson7809 I am straight, but I completly agree with you. These holier than thou Christians say the elca is disregarding the clear word of God. I believe THEY are disregarding the word of God by condemming others. I say that the elca is following the most important word of God of all (the Gospel and not the Law)by making folks who are differant than others feel very welcome and comfortable comming to church which to me is what Christianity is all about. Thank you and God bless you.
@rhywe We are not condemning anyone, we are not holier than thou, i believe you are missing the point. We are all sinful, however, we will not justify unrepentant sin. We are all sinful, but to those who believe and are baptised, God only sees Jesus and his sinless life and death. Denying or justifying sin is in a very real sense, minimizing what Jesus has done for us. We do not sit on a pedestal and call ourselves big, we are all wretched sinners, justified by the grace of the Lord.
@jajohnson7809 When you talk to "GLBT" persons, you will note they judge fiercely those who do not agree with them. Becareful who you accuse, unless you become blind yourself.
@jajohnson7809 If you are determined to hear only what you want to hear, and you want to hear hatred, you will hear hatred - you will find ways of interpreting whatever it is you hear, into hatred.
Notice I said "if." There are genuine problems in some parts of the Christian community in attitudes toward gay people, but more often than not Christians are misquoted and misinterpreted, often deliberately. If you chill a bit, you might hear better, and this will improve your outlook on life.
@jajohnson7809 It starts first with this: Is the Bible the Inerrant and Inspired Word of God or is it just stories & fables? As many Christian denominations move from a firm belief in the Bible to a redacted Bible containing only what they wish to hear. They move from the Word and Sacraments to social justice & are molded more by the culture today than the Scriptures. Is Christ is God or does one believe He was a liar / madman? Take Him at His Word (all of it) or pick & chose what we want?
@john91722 I'm a Unitarian Universalist, so that should pretty much give you my stance on the issues you bring up. As far as picking and choosing from the Bible, Christians of all denominations do it all the time.
@jajohnson7809 If you truly believe what the bible says......then you would know that homosexuality is a sin. Therefore, why would the ELCA believe that its alright to be a homosexual and be a minister. They obviously don't take the bible serious to the full extent of its content.........
@gravediggerbclb The Bible supports slavery as well, or at the very least fails to condemn it when the issue pops up. I believe it was Abraham who had a son with a slave woman, another act God fails to condemn in scripture. Why would 21st century Christians believe owning another human being is evil when Christians of prior generations (and OT prophets) condoned it, basing their position on the Bible? Who's not taking the Bible seriously in that case?
@jajohnson7809 Much of the "slavery" was a form of indentured servant. There are references to an anniversary / Jubellee the people of Israel were supposed to free all slaves. The Bible does not support slavery of the Hebrews in Egypt and Josephs brothers selling him into slavery. Nearly all Abolitionist movements were Christian based. People make up reasons to do what they want to do and will take stuff out of context to support what they want.
@jajohnson7809 I tell you what.....you keep reading the bible the way you "want" it to read, and I'll keep reading the bible the way it was written. When the end comes, I know where I'll be, and pray that you are there to join me. As far as slavery goes, the lord says in the New Testament, that you should not be a slave to another man.........
Ah, the sectarian squabbling of two irrelevant denominations! Speaking as a Lutheran - in Canada mind you - absolutely NO ONE cares what we think about homosexuality one way or another. These debates are just trivialities we occupy our church bulletins with because we don't want to contemplate the fact that we haven't mattered since the 1500's.
@zeb1912 Y'know, I'm trying to think of exactly which article of the Ecumenical Creeds is contradicted in a social policy about homosexuality and I can't find it. Maybe you should go throwing around a term like "heresy" so loosely.
Or the Lutheran Church ELCA back to the Gospel of Christ or is doomed to end, people who crave and desire for salvation teem and honor God's Word will not be in this place. The Church is not filthy, but people who are filthy and leads to deserve eternal damnation. Probably will not receive any punishment here on earth but in the final judge.
We mean conversion of the average American's emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media. We mean 'subverting' the mechanism of prejudice to our own ends – using the very process that made America hate us to turn their hatred into warm regard – whether they like it or not. Marshall Kirk & Hunter Madsen. After The Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear & Hatred Of Gays In The 90's. (New York: 1989), Page 153.
@ExposeTheAgenda trouble is, it's not about "fear". Nor is it about "hatred". It's about man's attempt to once again subvert the Gospel to it's own ends. In this case, gays are being done a huge disservice by denying them the Gospel through propaganda.
@waltherchemnitz In propaganda the grievous wolves (Act 20:29 KJV1611) will always accuse you of the crime they are committing, won't they?
Sometimes a false accusation can be more brazen and direct. Some recent research we conducted with Derek Rucker looked at what we called the projection tactic - accusing someone else of the misdeed you yourself are committing. (9) Pratkanis, Anthony and Aronson, Elliot.“Age of Propaganda": The Everyday Use and Abuse of Persuasion” (New York: 2001) Page 109.
@ExposeTheAgenda Projecting is a common thing these days, in fact, it's become the normative modus operandi in nearly every argument you hear. In informal fallacies it's call AD HOMINEM, or attacking the man.
@waltherchemnitz True. Since if you're a zealot for the truth you can only be shouted down and silenced. This is a war of sophistry! "Frames trump facts. His frame will stay and the facts will bounce off. Always reframe...Never answer a question framed from your opponent's point of view." George Lakoff. Don't Think Like An Elephant: Know Your Values & Frame The Debate, P 115-6. "the Intransigents... will eventually be silenced by both law and polite society." Kirk/Madsen p.177 vid: S_CWBjyIERY
wonder why biry0501 removed her comment. to reply though, I also know of a few priests who have molested boys. they are christians - does that justify their act? Christ died to justify sinnERS, not to justify sin. Breaking God's LAW ALWAYS brings bad things - it's why Paul calls the Law "good" and "right". When someone steals, he is hurting himself and others. when someone commits sexual acts outside of God's plan, only bad things can come from it. Case closed
I empathize with Rev Harrison. There is centuries of teaching that we are dealing with. But just like slavery and other teachings that were once traditional Christian teachings, we have to challenge this one and get closer to the truth. That is what we Lutherans are good at. ;-) Ironic that Rev Harrison said we need to study more Hebrew and Greek. Agreed. And that helped many of us in the ELCA arrive here- that false traditional teaching has partially been based on translation errors.
I hope that the Lutherans in America are 100 percent against the death-penalty. Thats the most important thing about lutheranism. From Lutheran Norway here!
@dompap9 In the ELCA, the largest Lutheran church in the United States and the sister church of the Church of Norway and the Norwegian Free Church, we passed a social statement in 1991 in opposition of the death penalty in the United States and abroad.
Yes, according to the Bible homosexuality is just as sinful as doing work on Saturday (mowing your lawn for example). Per scripture both are punishable by death. "If the word of God is not clear on this it is clear on nothing...."
I agree with Mr. Harrison that we need to refocus on the original languages of the Bible, so that we can come closer to the truth in the word. That is exactly how I came to realize the agenda with which the New Testament has been translated and that our traditional teachings about same-sex relationships have been in error. The ELCA is making the right decisions here.
You can see Jesus Christ working through churches such as ELCA and you can see it in the diversity of their Church. The Missouri Synod conveniently excludes John 3:16 as well as the Book of Acts when addressing the needs of gay men and lesbian women, ALL of whom were made in God's image. In the book of Genesis we don't see a statement that God made only heterosexual men in his image.
God made everything plain and evident in His creation even before the Laws were given. Is it not obvious that the anatomical design of a man only functions with a woman? You don't place a hex nut on a hex nut. You place a hex nut on a bolt. Men who have sex with men and women who have sex with women are destroying the propagation of the human race. Perhaps they will be put to death not by a court but by nature in the end. Wild animals will devour people in unpopulated cities.
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Luther had some issues because he was a catholic, however, the Bible is never wrong. I was in the Lutheran church when I was growing up...and I NEVER saw a bible, none that I can remember. When you throw out the bible, you lose. No matter who the "name" is on the door...Luther, Calvin, Wesley and the like....the name should always be JESUS and him alone.
@gospelgirl1964, who said, "I NEVER saw a bible, none that I can remember"... That would be the fault of your parents, not the church you attended".
You also said " If I had died before 27 (when i really got saved) I would have gone to hell. I blame the Lutheran church for this." You really should "blame" the Holy Spirit, because HE is the one who works faith when and where it pleases him. It's not up to you or the church "when" you get saved.
@waltherchemnitz - Actually you are dead wrong on the salvation issue Walther Chemnitz. I have recently begun attending a Lutheran church, but on the the matter of salvation they are in error, and if this is Luther's stance, he is in error. Salvation is a choice to receive Christ that each believer makes. Billy Graham is correct on how this is done. A person prays to receive Christ in His life. American Tract Society tracts can also help you with this.
@fredphellipssdriver Billy Graham doesn't even believe salvation is synergistic. In fact, as disreputable as he is, Fred Phelps doesn't even agree with you.
If you're a phelpite, and your attending a Lutheran Church, I want to know which one.
Salvation is synergistic? Please explain. According to the online dictionary someone called that teaching heresy. Christ died once for all so that we have a way back to God through Him. Read the gospel of John, especially chapter threee. Are you born again of the Spirit Walther Chemnitz?
And what is a phelpite? ( I assume you mean a follower of fred phelps, and i am definitely NOT that). just my goofy online name for you tube. I will not tell you what and where the Lutheran church is.
@fredphellipssdriver Are you kidding me? Your screen name is "fredPhellipssDriver"... What is that name referring to?
You said that "Salvation is a choice to receive Christ that each believer makes." That is thoroughly unbiblical. God has elected His people before the foundations of the world. To you, it looks like you made a decision, but God was the one who made the decision. That's monergism. What you said is synergism.
I will have to refer your comments to the Vatican Office for the Defense of the Faith (more commonly referred to as the Office of the Inquisition) and also to dubya dubya dubya dot chick dot kom. Just what did you do to become a Christian? Did you pray anything or did you just come out of your mother's womb burping and Christianized?
@fredphellipssdriver Oh, so you think the end all be all of theology is in Chick Tracts? You would hold up this Arminian drivel to God's word itself? You're no better than the chumps in the ELCA who handed all Homosexuals over to Satan with their resolutions...
Arminian drivel? That is just funny as can be. So how does a person receive salvation Walther Chemnitz? Can they do anything or are they hopelessly lost and unable to make any decision through prayer? Is it all just a big game of poker? You better hope your deck is better than the angel's you meet on the other side. Seriously. Christ did not die on a cross and then leave people hopeless. There is a way back to God, and its thru Christ, by receiving the free gift of salvation.
(cont) It is because we have abandoned the Reformation Bible text that we find ourselves in the quagmire in which we have arrived. In other words when the King James Bible and Luther's Heilige Schrift were no longer the final authority for preaching, teaching, and believing then apostasy embedded its tentacles. I fail to see how you can have clear preaching and teaching when we now use Roman Catholic Alexandrian text Bibles!!
(cont) It is because we have abandoned the Reformation Bible text that we find ourselves in the quagmire in which we have arrived. In other words when the King James Bible and Luther's Heilige Schrift were no longer the final authority for preaching, teaching, and believing then apostasy embedded its tentacles. I fail to see how you can have clear preaching and teaching when we now use Roman Catholic Alexandrian text Bibles!!
We should fear and love God so that we lead a sexually pure and decent life in whatever we say and do, and HUSBAND AND WIFE love and honor each other.
Jesus speaks of love, how dare the ELCA bless the love between all people? Shame. Leviticus clearly states that homosexuality is wrong, along with how women should dress, and how we all should eat. We all follow these laws right?
It's funny you know. Do you really think that making this argument again and again will eventually give it validity?
There's a category in the new testament, called "sexual immorality". Sexual Immorality is a rather simple concept that doesn't depend on old testament law. Homosexuality is a form of idolatry, and this is identified by St. Paul In the letter to the Romans.
@waltherchemnitz Argument again and again? I've never heard anyone give a good answer to those questions. Ever. Homosexuality is wrong, clearly the Bible says that, along with hundreds of other laws that are apparently outdated because no one follows them (perhaps only the orthodox Jews), with little or no debate. I honestly never understood that.
@whamfan87, The Law existed before God formed the Hebrew nation and gave them the additional civil, ceremonial, & religious laws in order for the nation to point the rest of the world to the coming Savior from sin. Even before the Moral Law later became known as the Ten Commandments. Jesus himself described sin as being "thought, word, & deed". Homosexuality, cohabitation, divorce, fornication, or even lust breaks the one against adultery since it defies what God designed for marriage.
@waltherchemnitz Not really. Temple prostitution is what some people confuse there, though. But yeah, stating Lev. over and over again really doesn't give it validity, since that only undermines the atonement of Christ.
@whamfan87 it's one thing to say "love everyone", but it's quite another to say "also love their sin". You can love a homosexual, but unless you are God and you are the creator of heaven and earth, you cannot (even if you think you can) change what he says. You can't, in God's stead, decide for a people "what was wrong then is right now"! NO ONE CAN! THAT is what this vote did! The worst part of it, in the minds of the world, it wasn't just ELCA but all lutherans. so sad!
@petrakid...Who said homosexuality was wrong? Was it the talking snake in Eden? or the did the ever-holy Lot say that while he was having sex in a cave with his daughters? If we lived by Christ's example, the world would be a better place. For being Christians, you are certainly not Christ-like. And neither am I. We are all sinners, so let's just pretend that we aren't judging eachother.
@whamfan87 So then what? Let people murder? Let people rape? Let people lie? There is a 3rd use to the law you know. It's called a guide. Yes, we are all sinners, but we are also before a holy and righteous God who, if it were not for Christ crucified, would DEMAND that we keep the Law or perish. Thanks to Christ, we do not need to concern ourselves with God's judgment. However, out of response to that, why would we go on living as though we are still the pagan people God saved us from?
@whamfan87 .Apparently you don't think homosexuality is wrong. Need I remind you...God created male and female, one for the other and the other for the one. Not male for male, not female for female. Paul emphasizes this in Romans 1 and 2. The whole of creation depends on this, as does pro-creation. God, not man, created us male and female to both populate the world AND to demonstrate the true marriage between Christ and his Church. If you defile earthly marriage, you defile...
@petrakid I'm so sorry that my life is displeasing to you. I really am, it hurts me to think that something I am, and someone I love can make people so visibly upset...and we don't even know each other. I hate that this has alienated from my family. And I hate that this may or may not make God hate me. I guess Paul doesn't like it either, but he's the least of my worries.
@whamfan87 "All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching....", "prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." The question is, are going to be so stubborn as to deny what Scripture says...what God the author says (the author of creation)? Would it not be better to confess that you are a sinner (like we all must), and seek God's will, so sin does not control you?
@whamfan87 ...for, if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, but if we confess our sin, God who is faithful and just, will forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This life you live is not yours; it belongs to Christ, and it hurts me that you are unwilling to allow God to work in your life regarding this sin too. God does NOT hate you, any more than Paul would if he were alive, any more than I do. But I will NOT say that a homosexual life
@whamfan87 ...style is godly, good, unsinful, or beneficial for the Church or for God's order of Creation. You can throw all the 21st century "God is love" stuff at me all day, but if God is love (which He is), and if God created us as males and females, then it stands to reason, that our lifestyles should reflect that. Sin is deceptive, but it NEVER brings anything good in the end...just corruption, separation, and destruction. To say that God loves homosexuality is to call him a liar.
@whamfan87 the heavenly marriage between God and man. How dare you justify your sinful human nature in such a way! How dare you compromise what Scripture teaches us concerning this for the sake of your egos and your screwed up 21st century relativistic and loveless understanding. If you truly loved the homosexual, you would not permit them to live their life in a way which is neither pleasing to God or profitable to the Church or to Creation. Submit to Scripture or deny it is Gods word. IDK.
@petrakid I've been thinking a lot about your words, and although we disagree to some extent, I do appreciate you being unlike most youtube commenters...so thank you. I just don't see the sin in day to day life. Certainly many homosexuals do live promiscuous lifestyles, as many heterosexuals do...which I think is wrong on both accounts. Anyway Petrakid, I'm done trying to find answers and arguing, so please have the last word.
@whamfan87 The last word is this: when it comes to sin, we are by nature (biologically, mentally, emotionally) sinful, unclean beings. In THAT sense (in the natural sense) homosexuality is a natural response to natural conditions. But it is not the flesh that we submit to but the spirit, for all who have received the spirit of holiness through Christ our Lord. There are a LOT of things that I still submit to in my flesh, even things that I like call 'natural', but in our naturalness...
@petrakid Well, I know plenty of people who are gay and lesbian and they are Christians. Their marriages and families that they raise are not exactly of the flesh. It takes lots of spirit to submit to a marriage.
But what people often muss is that we are are not talking about a sex act. We are talking about relationships.
@whamfan87 ...we submit to the Old Adam and not to the New Adam - Jesus Christ. If God created man to be in a natural relationship with another man (sexually, emotionally, etc.), then that relationship would have been spelled out for us. But the only relationship in Scripture which is called 'godly' is the one between male and female - between Christ and the Church. From creation it has been this way, and our desires in the flesh do not supersede that. We must put such desires to death.
@petrakid I would refer you to the story of David and Jonathan. That is more like a modern marriage than any of the relationships David had with his many wives.
@whamfan87 The 10 commandments is God's law. The other things are not held up to the same limus test. God does not change. Christ came and fulfilled all the law, however, the 10 commandments are still true and because we love God, and are saved, the works should be seen.
@whamfan87 Well, I've not seen anywhere in the Bible where God sent fire from heaven because a woman was wearing jewelry or preaching, or because someone had eaten pork chops. Have you? Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed because it was an strickly forbidden. These other things are permissable by God.
@gospelgirl1964 Good point. Thats what the Bible says. I personally believe Lot offering his daughters to be raped instead of the angels is wrong. I personally believe that Lot having sex with his daughters was sexually immoral. But if this quaint little story works for you, so be it. A bit childish to pick and choose eh? I really have you to thank, because, according to your Bible "Sin began with a woman, and to her we all must die."
@whamfan87 I was not talking about the issues you are talking about...I was talking about something someone else said about the way women dress and women in the pulpit. Or the issues of what we eat. Lot and Eve had nothing to do with my comment. I'm sorry if I was misunderstood.
@gospelgirl1964 Yes, rape was strictly forbidden--heterosexual and homosexual rape were strictly punished in this story. But we are not talking about sexual violence here.
whamfan87: The Civil and Ceremonial laws in Leviticus were abolished when Jesus came. Their purpose was done. The Moral law remains in full effect. God's design for human sexuality is shown in both Testaments. (Genesis 2: 24; Mark: 10: 6-9; 1 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 5:31, etc.) Good news is regardless of the sin, by grace through faith in Christ we have forgiveness. Yet once in Christ why would one want to willfully continue to justify sin? This would only serve to cheapen God's grace.
The weight of heaviness and grief in this pastor's voics is heartbreaking. God bless you, sir, and know that the gates of hell shall not prevail against Christ's church. The end is already written, no matter how desperate the times become. May God bless you richly in this special season.
@Sweet92Sue I typed that message at the beginning of the interview...and then the good pastor said the same Bible verse about the Church. Amen! it is ever and ever so!
Where in the Bible does it say that women are inferior to men, and to listen to them is satanic in nature, it is that prejudice and hate that is what Christ warns against, but you are not condemned, because you see yourself as pious, the women who have been brave enough to step up and declare the Word of God and accept the broken and the troubled, are satanic? Forgive me, but I fail to see the logic in such a statement
The Bible doesn't say that women are inferior to men. However, the Bible is clear as to what the office of Pastor is, and it is required that it be a man that is ordained to do the work of Christ.
The ELCA began ordaining women as pastors because it felt right to them to do so. But it's not about how it feels, it's about what's right.
But there is, unfortunately, no true, sacramental ordination (from a bishop which is in Apostolic succession with the first apostles) either in ECLA, the Missouri or Winsconsin synod, therefore the gender is less important.
@waltherchemnitz I believe God can call anyone into the ministry. those who yield to Him, will be blessed. I believe the Lutheran church is dead because they do not want the spirit of God in their churches. I know, I was raised in one. If I had died before 27 (when i really got saved) I would have gone to hell. I blame the Lutheran church for this. I was never lead to Jesus Christ, only read and memorize this and you can take your first communion. What?
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! - Isaiah 5:20
There is a procedure whereby a congregation can enter into alter and pulpit fellowship with the LCMS. All your congregation needs to do is contact the district headquarters in your area. Let me know where you are and I'll check into which district you're in.
Harrison mentions that the LCMS is on the same train as the ELCA, but with him in charge it should at least delay it for much longer, I hope that he can be remembered as the next Preuss.
BenjaminWirtz 5 days ago
Why is it so hard for people to understand the difference in God's Grace and the use of the third use of the Law? Yes, we accept all people with open arms into our Church's. But, that does not mean we appease our beliefs to accept their wrongful way of life whether its being gay or an adulteror. That also give us no room to judge but to rather help bring them into Gods light, through the use of scripture to display Gods grace and forgivness and explain his law.
CavalryMan07 2 weeks ago
thank god we're not like.... reminescent of Jesus parable
The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men--robbers, evildoers, adulterers--or even like this tax collector.
Luke 18:11
thethikboy 1 month ago
@DAllen1738 My mistake for not addressing these messages to you. I'm sorry. Anyway, they are for you. I hope the best for you in your journey!
womanwonder10 1 month ago
Bottom line is you are loved. God sent His Only Son to die on the cross that whoever puts their faith in Him (Jesus) will be saved. See John 3:16 AND 17. Also read throughout Romans. You can have real hope in Christ. And I do care about you, too!!
womanwonder10 1 month ago
@DAllen1738 message for U!!
womanwonder10 1 month ago
DAllen1738 You sound like a Hater and I feel sorry for you. Read John 3:16 and believe it was meant for you, please!!
womanwonder10 1 month ago
LCMS is indeed a church of Hate.
DAllen1738 1 month ago
@DAllen1738 I'm interested to hear what you have to say with this. Please, go on.
21twolf 1 month ago
Well it looks like the schism of the 1970's is STILL alive and well in 2011. I was a young adult at the time and I left the LCMS in 1981 and have never nor will I ever return to ANY Lutheran church Instead of soberly and maturely resolving this, the two sides fought like the Devil for what they thought was a heavenly cause. Many years, much independent reading from many different angles and many conclusion drawn. On Luther? An idiot, a theological dilettante and a rabid anti-semite.
DocHoliday916 2 months ago in playlist MISSOURI SYNOD LUTHERANS ARE HYPOCRITES!
Dear readers. I understand that there are a lot of people who seem to put homosexuality in the spotlight as if it is a sin greater than any other sin. But maybe the reason that homosexuality is in the spotlight is because it is being placed on our television shows and in our churches as something that God has no problem with. But Scripture is clear that Homosexuality is a sin and should be confessed as such. Remember all have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.
REVKOEHLER 3 months ago
@REVKOEHLER A sin? There is no where in scripture stating that. Everyone fails to look into the greek translation. Its just a very convenient way to quote a modern bible that agree's with what you classify as sinful. But then I guess homosexuals should not be glorified in the media because they are not people. Just as women are put in "their place" in the LCMS.
DAllen1738 1 month ago
The exit of the Holy Spirit from all visible churches are just about complete. Look up for your salvation draws nigh.
Celestiaetterra 3 months ago
Interesting. I have just come from a time in LCMS in my area. 5 are closing. I can see why. The LCMS people I know really do not know the Bible at all. They don't know much of anything. It shocked me, but it's the truth. LCMS witness is weak, and non-existent here. I would agree that LCMS shows "arrogance, lack of charity and unkindness"as was stated. It's Pastors and Elders cannot love or agree and keep any unity of peace. What I see is very dead orthodoxy with no love in it. Very sad.
redbrian3655 3 months ago
The ELCA is simply following the tradition begun by Martin Luther of ignoring certain parts of the Bible in order to make yourself feel better.
TheOldBeef 4 months ago
What's with all the hate against the LCMS?
Interestingenough4 4 months ago
@JesusNonEnviromental You are so ignorant.You seem to know nothing of the Lutheran Church,so don't judge it.Every single thing you said is incorrect! Lutherans believe one is saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus.Luther followed the Bible and was sent by God.If you don't agree w/ Baptism or the Lord's Supper, that's your right. I guess that's why we have thousands of denominations.Read Luther's Catechism.You might be astonished by all the scriptual references.TotallyBiblical!Who r u2judge
womanwonder10 5 months ago
@womanwonder10 Martin Luther SENT by God? Is Luther now a prophet?!
DAllen1738 1 month ago
@waltherchemnitz Thank you for standing firm on the Word of God!! We're not the haters. That's Satan's thing (being the liar, the thief, and the murderer that he is). So sad how so many can't understand that. God bless you and the LCMS!! I love this synod! There is no hate here, people. We are all sinners who need to repent and believe in Jesus Christ as our Savior!
womanwonder10 5 months ago
Didn't Jesus love everyone, even the outcasts and sinners? Go ELCA for following Jesus' path of love and acceptance.
VivaLaKelsey 6 months ago
@VivaLaKelsey Jesus also rebuked those who did not follow paths of righteousness.
Tensaishounen1 6 months ago
@VivaLaKelsey Yes Jesus did love the outcasts and sinners, part of loving the outcast and the sinners is to point out to them what they are doing wrong ( ie homosexual practices) help them find their way to repentance and than rejoice that Christ loves them enough that he died in their place and rose again to wash away their sin. in other words HATE the SIN, LOVE the SINNER. It is not the practioner of homosexuality we are against but the practice.
tgltyty 1 month ago
@tgltyty part of Love is NOT judgment - Judgment belongs to God - not you. Jesus fellowshipped with sinners because his mission was to save them - not condemn them - like you are complacently doing - he allowed Himself to be identified with them - not like you are self-righteously doing - it's an easy thing to judge those not like us - but your detachment from sinners - is profoundly un-Christian because it is profoundly un-Christ-like.
thethikboy 1 month ago
You need to celebrate your growing diversity-what are you up to now, nearly 3% people of color? You'll have to run really hard to catch up to the ELCA-they're at nearly 3.4%!
NixonisLord 6 months ago
Thanks for the correction. I didn't think you were in the ELCA and I don't care one way or the other. And you haven't mentioned anything I said, except to say that you find it rude. Which means it's inaccurate-how?
NixonisLord 6 months ago
OK, but this is the US, not Cameroons or Namibia. Unless you're planning to import Lutherans from Ethiopia to keep your churches full.
NixonisLord 6 months ago
The ELCA is a cancer of the Lutheran Theology that men are saved by sacraments. Any Homosexual who is baptized and participates in the Lords Supper is considered saved and filled with the Holy Spirit by Lutheran Doctrine. This type of doctrine of works gives birth to this type of faith of works and demonstrates that false doctrine breads apostacy. The Lutheran church is as corrupt as the Catholic and Episcopal churches. Homosexuality has found a home in these false churches
JesusNonEnviromental 6 months ago
This is a disgrace to lutheranism. How dare the LCMS call themselves lutherans in the name of God!
TastyBlooCrayons 7 months ago
Or it's better to be a Christian Lutheran, than a Heathen Lutheran.
cygmx 7 months ago
Jesus prayed that we all might be one----yet-----in this world of sin it is a challenge to us as Christians. We are buffeted about by sin and satan--and we turn against one another. We do have to stand by our beliefs---we have to---but we must never give up on our brothers who disagree. We must pray that we all might have greater light, as now "see we dimly as in a mirror'.
EstateManor 7 months ago
Rev. Harrison speak with loose lips on issues he does not understand in the ELCA.
biry0501 9 months ago
@biry0501 From what I understand, ELCA includes abortion on demand in their health care coverage, preaches the historic heresy of universalism, allows openly gay pastors, and has reduced the number of missionaries abroad by 60% since the social gospel has overtaken the true gospel! The ELCA is a whitewashed tomb, nice on the outside, with decaying doctrine on the inside.
HailZeon57 7 months ago
@HailZeon57 Those are interesting perceptions based on half truths, non-truths, and differing opinions. The reason I am happy to be in the ELCA, is because I am a Lutheran. And as much as we do not always agree with one another, as a Lutheran I refuse to capitulate to the American "Evangelical" Fundamentalist biblical hermaneutic, as has the LCMS. The LCMS may as well join the Southern Baptist Convention as far as doctrine.
biry0501 7 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
ELCA and MISS Synod...both run by jews
BemusedTIger 10 months ago
@BemusedTIger How utterly ignorant.
waltherchemnitz 10 months ago 9
@AnnFrankMustFknDie Yer blocked. have a nice day.
waltherchemnitz 10 months ago 4
I guess it's a matter voting for the ELCA. We decided that 10 Commandments are too much and would like to remove- one let's take a vote.
john91722 10 months ago
@john91722 Why stop at 10? Why not follow all 613 laws in the OT?
CoryTheRaven 7 months ago
I attended a Missouri Lutheran Synod school for two years for junior high and those two years of their doctrine just COMPLETELY turned me off to that particular synod. Plus, the members of that church (in Anaheim,CA) were just THE coldest and rudest ppl I have ever met....it's a wonder to me that that particular congregation is still open because I know that they have turned a LOT of ppl off.
wiccanlove1 10 months ago
In all, worldwide membership among Lutheran churches increased by 3.57 million to 69,527,817, representing a growth of 5.4 per cent.
Much of the growth in the number of Lutherans worldwide comes out of Africa.
Source: World Alliance of Reformed Churches. While declining in USA, on the rise in Africa; this hardly is indicative of a Shaker decline.
crazyzabo 11 months ago
Does anyone else know that both the ELCA and the Missouri Synod Lutherans will continue to shrink until they disappear about the year 2050? That you've got catastrophic low membership among those under 30 and that you're both about 96% White in a country that will be majority-minority by 2060? Anyone else notice these facts? To this atheist, you look like two old ladies fighting over deck chairs on the "Titanic".
NixonisLord 11 months ago
Thank god we are not them? Referring to the ELCA I take it. Hating on another Lutheran Church is ridiculous. We both worship God, If you don't like gay pastors then don't hire them. You don't have to bash them just because they aren't the norm or the same as you just because they like men.
jakrueger100 11 months ago
@mrjkdeyoung; Who said that the ELCA is justifying it. They never said that sin is ok. they are only searching for opportunities for the GLBT community to feel welcome in church. and who is to say that homosexuals are unrepentant. I believe many, not all, but many, are repentant. Just as I am repentant for my sin that so often I find myself comitting the same sin over and over again as I am positive all christians do.
rhywe 1 year ago
Simple, a biggoted, backward church. In 1977, Concordia Publishing House taught that adolescents who masturbate are commiting a horrible sin. In fact the word masturbation was scripted in sinister letters. They also backed the idea that inter-racial marriage is not ideal. They used the reasoning on how this is difficult for the children. This is not a principled church getting their marching orders from God. Now God and many others are saying, "Shame on You!!!!!"
crazyzabo 1 year ago
@crazyzabo who gives a rat's what either you or these Missouri Synod people do . You're both going the way of the Shakers, into irrelevance. Mainline Protestantism, of all stripes, is shrinking away faster than a pie put in front of a hungry Michael Moore.
NixonisLord 11 months ago
@NixonisLord OK, the beliefs of church members has not barring on social policy. As an atheist, you should be concerned with those who would codify religious beliefs into secular law. And, yes, religion and more specifically Lutheranism does bare on social policy. Jee wiz, I know shakers don't screw and, apparently Michael Moore would enjoy a pie, so...?
crazyzabo 11 months ago
@crazyzabo It's "bearing", not "barring". Or "bare". And I have no wish to see religious "law" introduced into secular law. I don't care if it's anti-abortion or total amnesty for all illegal aliens. You and the ELCA deserve each other. You're like to kids seeing who has better clothes for your dolls and better names for your invisible friends. "Shakers don't screw"? No, but they did convert. Once people realized that they were truly strange, they declined-quickly. Just like you.
NixonisLord 6 months ago
@NixonisLord Thanks for noticing the spelling and it's two not to kids, I'm not in the ELCA and I truly do not understand you. I also will not tolerate rudeness, so communication is over.
crazyzabo 6 months ago
@crazyzabo You need to celebrate your diversity and stop worrying about the kaine ktisis of the pleroma of the parousia and praxis and best practices! That sentence made as much sense as anything coming out of any religion today.
NixonisLord 5 months ago
@crazyzabo Masturbation is a sin because it is a selfish act that is not in God's plan for sexual purity.
"Whoever practices sin is a slave to sin" -Jesus
HailZeon57 7 months ago
@HailZeon57 I suppose you can argue that eating or drinking is a selfish act. In fact, I feel that complete celibacy is almost an impossible standard. It seems that having a safe outlet is better than the consequences of unintended pregnancies, diseases and difficult emotional attachments. I think there is a danger in the idea of "god on the shoulder" thinking versus the love from God radiating through us. Something, admittingly, I'm working on. God bless you.
crazyzabo 7 months ago
@crazyzabo Masturbation only adds to your desire for sex. If you actually claim to be a Christian, blow the dust off your Bible, open it up, and start reading about how God can help you overcome it.
HailZeon57 6 months ago
Who are your neighbors????
Hlejames 1 year ago
You need to check the postings of one of your Pastors the Rev Ft Philip Mullen who is posting some really discusting comments on You tube which include gloating over the death of two teenagers, calling them fags. insighting others to murder, bosting hes a member of The Tea Party & suports BNP neo nazi party that deny the holocuost- You may not approve of gays however I assume you have some integrity about Hate messages - he goes by the handle of USAsoldier1955's
trevortrevortsr2 1 year ago
Here to pass judgement as you are obvously. You make it seem like God hates those who do not "do what is right". If it wasn't for Jesus we would all be going to hell.
Also do you take the bible word for word? And if so is it a bible written in English? If you want to read the most close to actual translation of the bible read it on greek or latin.
He won't be buring in hell like you say, and neither will you; because of Jesus.
andrewflatt17 1 year ago
@andrewflatt17, Actually, the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. There are a few translations who paid special attention and refused to "jump on the bandwagon" and paraphrase like others do. It's also easier to read literarily, meaning to allow the context of the passage as well as the whole of the entirety of the Bible to read what is meant. The Scriptures stand up pretty much for themselves without outside interpretation.
brijs27 1 year ago
@warningsofwrath
I am not her
andrewflatt17 1 year ago
God said in His Word that those that take pleasure in those that commit such sins are going to get the same condemnation as the people that do the sins. Repent and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ while you can, if you can. Let God be true and every man a liar. ( warnings of wrath . com )
warningsofwrath 1 year ago
@warningsofwrath
I am not homosexual, but I am a proud ELCA member!! I am for homosexual relations including marriage! Have you ever taken theolocial claases? Or Bible in depth looks, you may be surprized what you learn. Don't bash someone who loves and cares about the same God you do.
andrewflatt17 1 year ago
I'm saddened by the bigotry in comments here, and in this video. I applaud the ELCA's decision. As a gay person who has felt despised by the church and by holier-than-thou Christians who rant about my "lifestyle" while remaining deafeningly silent on divorce and remarriage and other issues, I see Christianity as becoming less about Christ, and more about judging and condemning everyone who isn't "us." Thank God for the Episcopal Church!
jajohnson7809 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809 I understand how hateful a lot of Christians are about this. In fact, on Radical Grace Radio, we just did a show called "how to improve your Christian Hate Life" Which is a corrective for people like that. You have to understand, however, that the ELCA doesn't believe the Gospel anymore. It's what is taught in their seminaries. For instance, when you mention divorce and remarriage... you should check who says what.
waltherchemnitz 1 year ago 5
@jajohnson7809 Of course, to deny that Christ also held people accountable for their sins is also not to be ignored. In fact, 'I'm saddened' by the inability of some people to understand that a simple 'I oppose homosexuality' does not mean 'I hate homosexuals.' Scripture, in its entirety speaks out against 'unnatural' sexual relations. While there may be too much 'judging and condemning' there is 1) too much 'I don't care what the Bible says 2) not enough accountability to God's Word
Horvath321 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809 homosexual lifystyle is wrong. the scriptures say that those that remain in this lyfestyke will go to hell when they die christians dont hate you they love you. they love you enough to inform you of the end result of your life style.
zeb1912 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809
I've got news for you, you are despised by God Almighty. Your only hope is to repent of all sin ( including homosexuality) and obey the gospel of Jesus Christ. ( warnings of wrath . com )
warningsofwrath 1 year ago
@warningsofwrath Thank you, enlightened cultist, for your kind warning about how the God of love hates me. I'm not too fond of him, either.
jajohnson7809 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809
Then basically you have chosen your wicked sin instead of submitting to the righteousness of God. That is a choice you will regret throughout all eternity in the Fire. ( warnings of wrath . com )
warningsofwrath 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809, God did not create homosexuality. Like everything else, human sexuality and what God had planned for it way back in Genisis 2:24 was tainted and corrupted by the Fall into sin. Thus the attack on His design on marriage and the family, the most basic unit of society, began. Satan is intent on destroying God's image on Earth. And anyone can fall into his trappings.
It is through Christ alone we have complete forgiveness of sins.
brijs27 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809 I am straight, but I completly agree with you. These holier than thou Christians say the elca is disregarding the clear word of God. I believe THEY are disregarding the word of God by condemming others. I say that the elca is following the most important word of God of all (the Gospel and not the Law)by making folks who are differant than others feel very welcome and comfortable comming to church which to me is what Christianity is all about. Thank you and God bless you.
rhywe 1 year ago
@rhywe Then you don't understand Christianity at all.
hahnbd 1 year ago
@rhywe We are not condemning anyone, we are not holier than thou, i believe you are missing the point. We are all sinful, however, we will not justify unrepentant sin. We are all sinful, but to those who believe and are baptised, God only sees Jesus and his sinless life and death. Denying or justifying sin is in a very real sense, minimizing what Jesus has done for us. We do not sit on a pedestal and call ourselves big, we are all wretched sinners, justified by the grace of the Lord.
mrjkdeyoung 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809 When you talk to "GLBT" persons, you will note they judge fiercely those who do not agree with them. Becareful who you accuse, unless you become blind yourself.
hahnbd 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809 If you are determined to hear only what you want to hear, and you want to hear hatred, you will hear hatred - you will find ways of interpreting whatever it is you hear, into hatred.
Notice I said "if." There are genuine problems in some parts of the Christian community in attitudes toward gay people, but more often than not Christians are misquoted and misinterpreted, often deliberately. If you chill a bit, you might hear better, and this will improve your outlook on life.
minckminck 1 year ago
@jajohnson7809 It starts first with this: Is the Bible the Inerrant and Inspired Word of God or is it just stories & fables? As many Christian denominations move from a firm belief in the Bible to a redacted Bible containing only what they wish to hear. They move from the Word and Sacraments to social justice & are molded more by the culture today than the Scriptures. Is Christ is God or does one believe He was a liar / madman? Take Him at His Word (all of it) or pick & chose what we want?
john91722 10 months ago
@john91722 I'm a Unitarian Universalist, so that should pretty much give you my stance on the issues you bring up. As far as picking and choosing from the Bible, Christians of all denominations do it all the time.
jajohnson7809 10 months ago
@jajohnson7809 If you truly believe what the bible says......then you would know that homosexuality is a sin. Therefore, why would the ELCA believe that its alright to be a homosexual and be a minister. They obviously don't take the bible serious to the full extent of its content.........
gravediggerbclb 10 months ago
@gravediggerbclb The Bible supports slavery as well, or at the very least fails to condemn it when the issue pops up. I believe it was Abraham who had a son with a slave woman, another act God fails to condemn in scripture. Why would 21st century Christians believe owning another human being is evil when Christians of prior generations (and OT prophets) condoned it, basing their position on the Bible? Who's not taking the Bible seriously in that case?
jajohnson7809 10 months ago
@jajohnson7809 Much of the "slavery" was a form of indentured servant. There are references to an anniversary / Jubellee the people of Israel were supposed to free all slaves. The Bible does not support slavery of the Hebrews in Egypt and Josephs brothers selling him into slavery. Nearly all Abolitionist movements were Christian based. People make up reasons to do what they want to do and will take stuff out of context to support what they want.
john91722 10 months ago
@jajohnson7809 I tell you what.....you keep reading the bible the way you "want" it to read, and I'll keep reading the bible the way it was written. When the end comes, I know where I'll be, and pray that you are there to join me. As far as slavery goes, the lord says in the New Testament, that you should not be a slave to another man.........
gravediggerbclb 10 months ago
@jajohnson7809 Explain that position to your Maker when he requires it of you because it is contrary to His word.
PoofDuddy 8 months ago
Ah, the sectarian squabbling of two irrelevant denominations! Speaking as a Lutheran - in Canada mind you - absolutely NO ONE cares what we think about homosexuality one way or another. These debates are just trivialities we occupy our church bulletins with because we don't want to contemplate the fact that we haven't mattered since the 1500's.
CoryTheRaven 1 year ago 2
@mostly4moderate If you think that qualifies as heresy, you evidently don't know Lutheran theology very well. Perhaps you should leave the ELCA.
CoryTheRaven 1 year ago
@CoryTheRaven it is heresy to conodone homosexuality
zeb1912 1 year ago
@zeb1912 It is heresy to post typos!!!!!! I find that poor English and incorrect spelling to be worthy of hell fire!
redbrian3655 1 year ago
@redbrian3655 i didnot say anything about typos!!!!!!!!!!1 i was responding to jajohnson7809 who did not like this videos condeming of homosexuality
zeb1912 1 year ago
@zeb1912 It is heresy to Justify unrepentant sin.
mrjkdeyoung 1 year ago
@zeb1912 Y'know, I'm trying to think of exactly which article of the Ecumenical Creeds is contradicted in a social policy about homosexuality and I can't find it. Maybe you should go throwing around a term like "heresy" so loosely.
CoryTheRaven 7 months ago
There is still time for the ELCA back to the origins of the gospel of Christ. Renounce these practices and dirty against the Word of God
pertencoacristo 1 year ago
@pertencoacristo Why would they? They love the socialist teachings they spew from the pulpit rather than the word of God! New video: KjCvapGmqcY
ExposeTheAgenda 1 year ago
Or the Lutheran Church ELCA back to the Gospel of Christ or is doomed to end, people who crave and desire for salvation teem and honor God's Word will not be in this place. The Church is not filthy, but people who are filthy and leads to deserve eternal damnation. Probably will not receive any punishment here on earth but in the final judge.
pertencoacristo 1 year ago
We mean conversion of the average American's emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media. We mean 'subverting' the mechanism of prejudice to our own ends – using the very process that made America hate us to turn their hatred into warm regard – whether they like it or not. Marshall Kirk & Hunter Madsen. After The Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear & Hatred Of Gays In The 90's. (New York: 1989), Page 153.
ExposeTheAgenda 1 year ago
@ExposeTheAgenda trouble is, it's not about "fear". Nor is it about "hatred". It's about man's attempt to once again subvert the Gospel to it's own ends. In this case, gays are being done a huge disservice by denying them the Gospel through propaganda.
waltherchemnitz 1 year ago
@waltherchemnitz In propaganda the grievous wolves (Act 20:29 KJV1611) will always accuse you of the crime they are committing, won't they?
Sometimes a false accusation can be more brazen and direct. Some recent research we conducted with Derek Rucker looked at what we called the projection tactic - accusing someone else of the misdeed you yourself are committing. (9) Pratkanis, Anthony and Aronson, Elliot.“Age of Propaganda": The Everyday Use and Abuse of Persuasion” (New York: 2001) Page 109.
ExposeTheAgenda 1 year ago
@ExposeTheAgenda Projecting is a common thing these days, in fact, it's become the normative modus operandi in nearly every argument you hear. In informal fallacies it's call AD HOMINEM, or attacking the man.
We live in a new dark age you know...
waltherchemnitz 1 year ago
@waltherchemnitz True. Since if you're a zealot for the truth you can only be shouted down and silenced. This is a war of sophistry! "Frames trump facts. His frame will stay and the facts will bounce off. Always reframe...Never answer a question framed from your opponent's point of view." George Lakoff. Don't Think Like An Elephant: Know Your Values & Frame The Debate, P 115-6. "the Intransigents... will eventually be silenced by both law and polite society." Kirk/Madsen p.177 vid: S_CWBjyIERY
ExposeTheAgenda 1 year ago
wonder why biry0501 removed her comment. to reply though, I also know of a few priests who have molested boys. they are christians - does that justify their act? Christ died to justify sinnERS, not to justify sin. Breaking God's LAW ALWAYS brings bad things - it's why Paul calls the Law "good" and "right". When someone steals, he is hurting himself and others. when someone commits sexual acts outside of God's plan, only bad things can come from it. Case closed
petrakid 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I empathize with Rev Harrison. There is centuries of teaching that we are dealing with. But just like slavery and other teachings that were once traditional Christian teachings, we have to challenge this one and get closer to the truth. That is what we Lutherans are good at. ;-) Ironic that Rev Harrison said we need to study more Hebrew and Greek. Agreed. And that helped many of us in the ELCA arrive here- that false traditional teaching has partially been based on translation errors.
biry0501 1 year ago
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biry0501 1 year ago
I hope that the Lutherans in America are 100 percent against the death-penalty. Thats the most important thing about lutheranism. From Lutheran Norway here!
dompap9 1 year ago
@dompap9 In the ELCA, the largest Lutheran church in the United States and the sister church of the Church of Norway and the Norwegian Free Church, we passed a social statement in 1991 in opposition of the death penalty in the United States and abroad.
biry0501 1 year ago
Yes, according to the Bible homosexuality is just as sinful as doing work on Saturday (mowing your lawn for example). Per scripture both are punishable by death. "If the word of God is not clear on this it is clear on nothing...."
bunnycatch3r 1 year ago
I agree with Mr. Harrison that we need to refocus on the original languages of the Bible, so that we can come closer to the truth in the word. That is exactly how I came to realize the agenda with which the New Testament has been translated and that our traditional teachings about same-sex relationships have been in error. The ELCA is making the right decisions here.
biry0501 1 year ago
You can see Jesus Christ working through churches such as ELCA and you can see it in the diversity of their Church. The Missouri Synod conveniently excludes John 3:16 as well as the Book of Acts when addressing the needs of gay men and lesbian women, ALL of whom were made in God's image. In the book of Genesis we don't see a statement that God made only heterosexual men in his image.
gtrnr 1 year ago
God made everything plain and evident in His creation even before the Laws were given. Is it not obvious that the anatomical design of a man only functions with a woman? You don't place a hex nut on a hex nut. You place a hex nut on a bolt. Men who have sex with men and women who have sex with women are destroying the propagation of the human race. Perhaps they will be put to death not by a court but by nature in the end. Wild animals will devour people in unpopulated cities.
fredphellipssdriver 1 year ago
26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
worrior777 1 year ago
Luther had some issues because he was a catholic, however, the Bible is never wrong. I was in the Lutheran church when I was growing up...and I NEVER saw a bible, none that I can remember. When you throw out the bible, you lose. No matter who the "name" is on the door...Luther, Calvin, Wesley and the like....the name should always be JESUS and him alone.
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
@gospelgirl1964, who said, "I NEVER saw a bible, none that I can remember"... That would be the fault of your parents, not the church you attended".
You also said " If I had died before 27 (when i really got saved) I would have gone to hell. I blame the Lutheran church for this." You really should "blame" the Holy Spirit, because HE is the one who works faith when and where it pleases him. It's not up to you or the church "when" you get saved.
waltherchemnitz 1 year ago
@waltherchemnitz - Actually you are dead wrong on the salvation issue Walther Chemnitz. I have recently begun attending a Lutheran church, but on the the matter of salvation they are in error, and if this is Luther's stance, he is in error. Salvation is a choice to receive Christ that each believer makes. Billy Graham is correct on how this is done. A person prays to receive Christ in His life. American Tract Society tracts can also help you with this.
fredphellipssdriver 1 year ago
@fredphellipssdriver Billy Graham doesn't even believe salvation is synergistic. In fact, as disreputable as he is, Fred Phelps doesn't even agree with you.
If you're a phelpite, and your attending a Lutheran Church, I want to know which one.
waltherchemnitz 1 year ago
Salvation is synergistic? Please explain. According to the online dictionary someone called that teaching heresy. Christ died once for all so that we have a way back to God through Him. Read the gospel of John, especially chapter threee. Are you born again of the Spirit Walther Chemnitz?
And what is a phelpite? ( I assume you mean a follower of fred phelps, and i am definitely NOT that). just my goofy online name for you tube. I will not tell you what and where the Lutheran church is.
fredphellipssdriver 1 year ago
@fredphellipssdriver Are you kidding me? Your screen name is "fredPhellipssDriver"... What is that name referring to?
You said that "Salvation is a choice to receive Christ that each believer makes." That is thoroughly unbiblical. God has elected His people before the foundations of the world. To you, it looks like you made a decision, but God was the one who made the decision. That's monergism. What you said is synergism.
waltherchemnitz 1 year ago
I will have to refer your comments to the Vatican Office for the Defense of the Faith (more commonly referred to as the Office of the Inquisition) and also to dubya dubya dubya dot chick dot kom. Just what did you do to become a Christian? Did you pray anything or did you just come out of your mother's womb burping and Christianized?
Seriously, I would like to know.
fredphellipssdriver 1 year ago
Where do you get your theology from? Go visit the double u X 3 Chick doty kom website. Monergism, Synergism, Schism, anachronism, whatever.
fredphellipssdriver 1 year ago
@fredphellipssdriver Oh, so you think the end all be all of theology is in Chick Tracts? You would hold up this Arminian drivel to God's word itself? You're no better than the chumps in the ELCA who handed all Homosexuals over to Satan with their resolutions...
waltherchemnitz 1 year ago
Arminian drivel? That is just funny as can be. So how does a person receive salvation Walther Chemnitz? Can they do anything or are they hopelessly lost and unable to make any decision through prayer? Is it all just a big game of poker? You better hope your deck is better than the angel's you meet on the other side. Seriously. Christ did not die on a cross and then leave people hopeless. There is a way back to God, and its thru Christ, by receiving the free gift of salvation.
fredphellipssdriver 1 year ago
Walter, please don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit. You know better. Read what the Bible says about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
fredphellipssdriver 1 year ago
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LBBspock 1 year ago
(cont) It is because we have abandoned the Reformation Bible text that we find ourselves in the quagmire in which we have arrived. In other words when the King James Bible and Luther's Heilige Schrift were no longer the final authority for preaching, teaching, and believing then apostasy embedded its tentacles. I fail to see how you can have clear preaching and teaching when we now use Roman Catholic Alexandrian text Bibles!!
LBBspock 1 year ago
(cont) It is because we have abandoned the Reformation Bible text that we find ourselves in the quagmire in which we have arrived. In other words when the King James Bible and Luther's Heilige Schrift were no longer the final authority for preaching, teaching, and believing then apostasy embedded its tentacles. I fail to see how you can have clear preaching and teaching when we now use Roman Catholic Alexandrian text Bibles!!
LBBspock 1 year ago
What pastor Harrison articulated was quite profound. However I believe that his
paradigm regarding the so-called "original languages" is a blind spot. (cont)
LBBspock 1 year ago
You shall not commit adultery
We should fear and love God so that we lead a sexually pure and decent life in whatever we say and do, and HUSBAND AND WIFE love and honor each other.
KAN0NAT0R 2 years ago
Unfortunately, the ELCA doesn't put much faith in Luther's Small Catechism anymore. They would just say, "well, Herr Luther was wrong".
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
Jesus speaks of love, how dare the ELCA bless the love between all people? Shame. Leviticus clearly states that homosexuality is wrong, along with how women should dress, and how we all should eat. We all follow these laws right?
whamfan87 2 years ago
It's funny you know. Do you really think that making this argument again and again will eventually give it validity?
There's a category in the new testament, called "sexual immorality". Sexual Immorality is a rather simple concept that doesn't depend on old testament law. Homosexuality is a form of idolatry, and this is identified by St. Paul In the letter to the Romans.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
@waltherchemnitz Argument again and again? I've never heard anyone give a good answer to those questions. Ever. Homosexuality is wrong, clearly the Bible says that, along with hundreds of other laws that are apparently outdated because no one follows them (perhaps only the orthodox Jews), with little or no debate. I honestly never understood that.
whamfan87 1 year ago
@whamfan87, The Law existed before God formed the Hebrew nation and gave them the additional civil, ceremonial, & religious laws in order for the nation to point the rest of the world to the coming Savior from sin. Even before the Moral Law later became known as the Ten Commandments. Jesus himself described sin as being "thought, word, & deed". Homosexuality, cohabitation, divorce, fornication, or even lust breaks the one against adultery since it defies what God designed for marriage.
brijs27 1 year ago
@waltherchemnitz Not really. Temple prostitution is what some people confuse there, though. But yeah, stating Lev. over and over again really doesn't give it validity, since that only undermines the atonement of Christ.
biry0501 1 year ago
@whamfan87 it's one thing to say "love everyone", but it's quite another to say "also love their sin". You can love a homosexual, but unless you are God and you are the creator of heaven and earth, you cannot (even if you think you can) change what he says. You can't, in God's stead, decide for a people "what was wrong then is right now"! NO ONE CAN! THAT is what this vote did! The worst part of it, in the minds of the world, it wasn't just ELCA but all lutherans. so sad!
petrakid 2 years ago
@petrakid...Who said homosexuality was wrong? Was it the talking snake in Eden? or the did the ever-holy Lot say that while he was having sex in a cave with his daughters? If we lived by Christ's example, the world would be a better place. For being Christians, you are certainly not Christ-like. And neither am I. We are all sinners, so let's just pretend that we aren't judging eachother.
whamfan87 1 year ago
@whamfan87 So then what? Let people murder? Let people rape? Let people lie? There is a 3rd use to the law you know. It's called a guide. Yes, we are all sinners, but we are also before a holy and righteous God who, if it were not for Christ crucified, would DEMAND that we keep the Law or perish. Thanks to Christ, we do not need to concern ourselves with God's judgment. However, out of response to that, why would we go on living as though we are still the pagan people God saved us from?
petrakid 1 year ago
@whamfan87 .Apparently you don't think homosexuality is wrong. Need I remind you...God created male and female, one for the other and the other for the one. Not male for male, not female for female. Paul emphasizes this in Romans 1 and 2. The whole of creation depends on this, as does pro-creation. God, not man, created us male and female to both populate the world AND to demonstrate the true marriage between Christ and his Church. If you defile earthly marriage, you defile...
petrakid 1 year ago
@petrakid I'm so sorry that my life is displeasing to you. I really am, it hurts me to think that something I am, and someone I love can make people so visibly upset...and we don't even know each other. I hate that this has alienated from my family. And I hate that this may or may not make God hate me. I guess Paul doesn't like it either, but he's the least of my worries.
whamfan87 1 year ago
@whamfan87 "All scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching....", "prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." The question is, are going to be so stubborn as to deny what Scripture says...what God the author says (the author of creation)? Would it not be better to confess that you are a sinner (like we all must), and seek God's will, so sin does not control you?
petrakid 1 year ago
@whamfan87 ...for, if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, but if we confess our sin, God who is faithful and just, will forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This life you live is not yours; it belongs to Christ, and it hurts me that you are unwilling to allow God to work in your life regarding this sin too. God does NOT hate you, any more than Paul would if he were alive, any more than I do. But I will NOT say that a homosexual life
petrakid 1 year ago
@whamfan87 ...style is godly, good, unsinful, or beneficial for the Church or for God's order of Creation. You can throw all the 21st century "God is love" stuff at me all day, but if God is love (which He is), and if God created us as males and females, then it stands to reason, that our lifestyles should reflect that. Sin is deceptive, but it NEVER brings anything good in the end...just corruption, separation, and destruction. To say that God loves homosexuality is to call him a liar.
petrakid 1 year ago
@whamfan87 the heavenly marriage between God and man. How dare you justify your sinful human nature in such a way! How dare you compromise what Scripture teaches us concerning this for the sake of your egos and your screwed up 21st century relativistic and loveless understanding. If you truly loved the homosexual, you would not permit them to live their life in a way which is neither pleasing to God or profitable to the Church or to Creation. Submit to Scripture or deny it is Gods word. IDK.
petrakid 1 year ago
@petrakid I've been thinking a lot about your words, and although we disagree to some extent, I do appreciate you being unlike most youtube commenters...so thank you. I just don't see the sin in day to day life. Certainly many homosexuals do live promiscuous lifestyles, as many heterosexuals do...which I think is wrong on both accounts. Anyway Petrakid, I'm done trying to find answers and arguing, so please have the last word.
whamfan87 1 year ago
@whamfan87 The last word is this: when it comes to sin, we are by nature (biologically, mentally, emotionally) sinful, unclean beings. In THAT sense (in the natural sense) homosexuality is a natural response to natural conditions. But it is not the flesh that we submit to but the spirit, for all who have received the spirit of holiness through Christ our Lord. There are a LOT of things that I still submit to in my flesh, even things that I like call 'natural', but in our naturalness...
petrakid 1 year ago
@petrakid Well, I know plenty of people who are gay and lesbian and they are Christians. Their marriages and families that they raise are not exactly of the flesh. It takes lots of spirit to submit to a marriage.
But what people often muss is that we are are not talking about a sex act. We are talking about relationships.
biry0501 1 year ago
@whamfan87 ...we submit to the Old Adam and not to the New Adam - Jesus Christ. If God created man to be in a natural relationship with another man (sexually, emotionally, etc.), then that relationship would have been spelled out for us. But the only relationship in Scripture which is called 'godly' is the one between male and female - between Christ and the Church. From creation it has been this way, and our desires in the flesh do not supersede that. We must put such desires to death.
petrakid 1 year ago
@petrakid I would refer you to the story of David and Jonathan. That is more like a modern marriage than any of the relationships David had with his many wives.
biry0501 1 year ago
@whamfan87 The 10 commandments is God's law. The other things are not held up to the same limus test. God does not change. Christ came and fulfilled all the law, however, the 10 commandments are still true and because we love God, and are saved, the works should be seen.
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
@gospelgirl1964 I think we all can agree to that! Well said gospelgirl, I don't think many debate that at all.
whamfan87 1 year ago
@whamfan87 Well, I've not seen anywhere in the Bible where God sent fire from heaven because a woman was wearing jewelry or preaching, or because someone had eaten pork chops. Have you? Sodom and Gomorrha were destroyed because it was an strickly forbidden. These other things are permissable by God.
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
@gospelgirl1964 Good point. Thats what the Bible says. I personally believe Lot offering his daughters to be raped instead of the angels is wrong. I personally believe that Lot having sex with his daughters was sexually immoral. But if this quaint little story works for you, so be it. A bit childish to pick and choose eh? I really have you to thank, because, according to your Bible "Sin began with a woman, and to her we all must die."
whamfan87 1 year ago
@whamfan87 I was not talking about the issues you are talking about...I was talking about something someone else said about the way women dress and women in the pulpit. Or the issues of what we eat. Lot and Eve had nothing to do with my comment. I'm sorry if I was misunderstood.
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
@gospelgirl1964 Yes, rape was strictly forbidden--heterosexual and homosexual rape were strictly punished in this story. But we are not talking about sexual violence here.
biry0501 1 year ago
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brijs27 1 year ago
whamfan87: The Civil and Ceremonial laws in Leviticus were abolished when Jesus came. Their purpose was done. The Moral law remains in full effect. God's design for human sexuality is shown in both Testaments. (Genesis 2: 24; Mark: 10: 6-9; 1 Corinthians 6:16; Ephesians 5:31, etc.) Good news is regardless of the sin, by grace through faith in Christ we have forgiveness. Yet once in Christ why would one want to willfully continue to justify sin? This would only serve to cheapen God's grace.
brijs27 1 year ago
The weight of heaviness and grief in this pastor's voics is heartbreaking. God bless you, sir, and know that the gates of hell shall not prevail against Christ's church. The end is already written, no matter how desperate the times become. May God bless you richly in this special season.
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago 6
@Sweet92Sue I typed that message at the beginning of the interview...and then the good pastor said the same Bible verse about the Church. Amen! it is ever and ever so!
Sweet92Sue 2 years ago
The ELCA has now become followers of SATAN.
nytmstr 2 years ago
They were following Satan way before, like when they started ordaining women.
ajpreus 2 years ago 2
You are correct
nytmstr 2 years ago
Where in the Bible does it say that women are inferior to men, and to listen to them is satanic in nature, it is that prejudice and hate that is what Christ warns against, but you are not condemned, because you see yourself as pious, the women who have been brave enough to step up and declare the Word of God and accept the broken and the troubled, are satanic? Forgive me, but I fail to see the logic in such a statement
JAD1281 2 years ago
The Bible doesn't say that women are inferior to men. However, the Bible is clear as to what the office of Pastor is, and it is required that it be a man that is ordained to do the work of Christ.
The ELCA began ordaining women as pastors because it felt right to them to do so. But it's not about how it feels, it's about what's right.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
But there is, unfortunately, no true, sacramental ordination (from a bishop which is in Apostolic succession with the first apostles) either in ECLA, the Missouri or Winsconsin synod, therefore the gender is less important.
karpov89 2 years ago
@waltherchemnitz I believe God can call anyone into the ministry. those who yield to Him, will be blessed. I believe the Lutheran church is dead because they do not want the spirit of God in their churches. I know, I was raised in one. If I had died before 27 (when i really got saved) I would have gone to hell. I blame the Lutheran church for this. I was never lead to Jesus Christ, only read and memorize this and you can take your first communion. What?
gospelgirl1964 1 year ago
@ajpreus What a pronouncement! Hardly scriptural
thethikboy 1 month ago
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! - Isaiah 5:20
DanielLaNoue 2 years ago 3
There is a procedure whereby a congregation can enter into alter and pulpit fellowship with the LCMS. All your congregation needs to do is contact the district headquarters in your area. Let me know where you are and I'll check into which district you're in.
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago
1:42, or mainly the picture through this video Looks like the train conductor from the Polar Express... just saying.
YourFavoritePastime 2 years ago
BLOL... I'll let Matt Harrison know that. He'll get a laugh. :)
waltherchemnitz 2 years ago