Hello my friend. As you know this is one of those areas where we disagree. I honestly cannot find in the scriptures, in context and with correct meaning, where hell is a place of eternal torment or torture. Hell is indeed eternal as the punishment is forever. When I read perish or destroy that to me would lean toward an end or death more then to life in torment. I could go on and on but will spare you. :) Anyhow good video and God bless!
The only problem with that is that persin or destroy does not mean annilation. I believe if you will check Vines and others you will discover that. Then even though silent in the Bible is the question why should I think heaven is eternal bliss and not thing heaven is eternal misery. GBU
Thank you. I honestly was thinking of that but did not want to interfere. I will do that this evening or tomorrow. Thank you very much for the invite. God bless!
Thanks MtZion. As I said I feel sure tghat Labarum312 will not object. When it is made just attach it to ours so people can see it as well. You are full aware that we can discuss these issues without any problem.
Opinions have always been in good spirits with us. I also have a youtube friend, 4096x, that has made a recent video on hell. He believes also in eternal torment. I told him about your debate and the video I will be making. He is also a good spirited person in discussion. God bless!
Thanks for posting. I will have another video out on this subject this weekend. In short I believe in torment of hell, I just do not believe that it lasts forever. Annihilation I believe is the final result. I believe that each will pay according to individual knowledge according to their understanding and opportunity for salvation. To know right and not do it is to be beaten with many stripes and to not know and do things wrong is to be beaten with few stripes. The video may help. GB
Thank you for sharing. It is important that we can share opinions in the right spirit. :) Hell is eternal. The punishment is eternal. You say based on scripture. I cannot find any passages that when understood correctly and in context teach that the torment and torture of hell is eternal. I am not sure about the physical fire. I do not know if it is metaphorical or not. As Labarum312 correctly points out, gehenna refers to Hinnom. That was a place of death, maggots, etc.
I do not have my Bible with me however it is clear from the Scriptures that Hell is eternal and if any souls go there they will be tormented forever. I have never been there and God forbid I should go....
Some "christians" think in the sense that souls will be burned like in a frying pan. I think that is ridiculous.
I do not think that they will be burned like in a frying pan. LOL I do not claim to know how long the torment lasts. When you get your Bible please let me know the scriptures that you refer to for belief in eternal punishing and torment. Chances are I have addressed them in other videos already but I will have a new video out on this subject this weekend. Labarum312 and Bingolly1 I have respect for and have invited me to participate even though we disagree. We must strive for the truth. GB
Ok. Thanks for the conversation. It is important that we seek the truth more than to be right. If I am wrong on something I pray that God shows me the truth. I appreciate your spirit in the discussion. God bless you and thanks again.
Again for clarification. I do believe the punishment is eternal. I do not believe the punishing is eternal. Where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched I believe is actually a reference to eternal death, not eternal life. I believe that there is only one way to eternal life, through Jesus. Some may say that eternal life in hell is not eternal life but in the strictest sense it is. From my understanding of the scriptures the question is mortality or immortality. GB
I was raised a Baptist, I am now non-denominational. I believe that there is truly only those that are saved and those that are lost. Many times denominations tend to separate though I understand with so many differing views why they exist. God bless and thanks for asking.
Thank you. I will look them over. Please also remember that I believe that there will be torment in hell. I also believe that the separation by eventual annihilation is everlasting. I just do not believe that the torment itself lasts forever. Thanks again.
Hello again. 2 Thess 1:6-9...Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. This seems to indicate everlasting destruction as the scripture states. This would support annihilation in my opinion as destruction is not everlasting torture. Luke 3:16-17 is a reference to the first coming of Jesus, not hell. The scripture says nothing about eternal torment even if it was speaking of hell. In context it is speaking spiritually of Jesus first coming. (cont)
(cont) Matthew 25:41 .... the everlasting fire is everlasting to destroy the wicked. The scripture here does not teach eternal torture for people. It is important to read what the passage clearly states. Everlasting fire is not the same as everlasting torment for the individual. Isaiah 33, as most of Isaiah, is speaking of Christ's first coming. Even so the passages referred to states "shall devour you". Verse 14 questions who can dwell with the devouring fire? As to say no one can: death.
I wanted to say here that I am not trying to be contentious. I am just pointing out that these scriptures seem to support devouring and destruction more than eternal life in torments. I can find no scripture that supports this teaching when looked at in context and it's proper understanding. You may disagree, this is not a salvation issue so I hope we can still be friends. :) Not only can I not back this up Biblically but I do not see eternal torture falling in line with God's character. GB
Both yourself and Labarum have done an excellent study of the serious subject.May i thank you Bing for your all your endeavours.GBU
SpiritofNewman 2 years ago
I have no issue with Mtzion211 joining in on the fun. :>) I will be away the next few days and will probably make my next video on Monday. God bless.
labarum312 2 years ago
Hello my friend. As you know this is one of those areas where we disagree. I honestly cannot find in the scriptures, in context and with correct meaning, where hell is a place of eternal torment or torture. Hell is indeed eternal as the punishment is forever. When I read perish or destroy that to me would lean toward an end or death more then to life in torment. I could go on and on but will spare you. :) Anyhow good video and God bless!
mtzion211 2 years ago
The only problem with that is that persin or destroy does not mean annilation. I believe if you will check Vines and others you will discover that. Then even though silent in the Bible is the question why should I think heaven is eternal bliss and not thing heaven is eternal misery. GBU
Bingolly1 2 years ago
Join us on the discussion MtZion. I am sure Labarum312 will not mind. Make a response video and attatch it to ours.
Bingolly1 2 years ago
Thank you. I honestly was thinking of that but did not want to interfere. I will do that this evening or tomorrow. Thank you very much for the invite. God bless!
mtzion211 2 years ago
Thanks MtZion. As I said I feel sure tghat Labarum312 will not object. When it is made just attach it to ours so people can see it as well. You are full aware that we can discuss these issues without any problem.
Bingolly1 2 years ago
Opinions have always been in good spirits with us. I also have a youtube friend, 4096x, that has made a recent video on hell. He believes also in eternal torment. I told him about your debate and the video I will be making. He is also a good spirited person in discussion. God bless!
mtzion211 2 years ago
I am confused by your post....are you saying you don't think Hell is torment ???
According to Scripture and Apostolic Tradition the lost are not destroyed....our souls are indestructible.
PaulsGoodFight 2 years ago
Thanks for posting. I will have another video out on this subject this weekend. In short I believe in torment of hell, I just do not believe that it lasts forever. Annihilation I believe is the final result. I believe that each will pay according to individual knowledge according to their understanding and opportunity for salvation. To know right and not do it is to be beaten with many stripes and to not know and do things wrong is to be beaten with few stripes. The video may help. GB
mtzion211 2 years ago
I respect your views....however based on Scripture and Apostolic Tradition our souls are immortal. We are made in the image of God.
Hell is an eternal place of punishment. Is it physical fire, worms etc as some Fundamentalists say?
I don't know. The soul cannot be burned by a physical fire.
PaulsGoodFight 2 years ago
Thank you for sharing. It is important that we can share opinions in the right spirit. :) Hell is eternal. The punishment is eternal. You say based on scripture. I cannot find any passages that when understood correctly and in context teach that the torment and torture of hell is eternal. I am not sure about the physical fire. I do not know if it is metaphorical or not. As Labarum312 correctly points out, gehenna refers to Hinnom. That was a place of death, maggots, etc.
mtzion211 2 years ago
I do not have my Bible with me however it is clear from the Scriptures that Hell is eternal and if any souls go there they will be tormented forever. I have never been there and God forbid I should go....
Some "christians" think in the sense that souls will be burned like in a frying pan. I think that is ridiculous.
PaulsGoodFight 2 years ago
I do not think that they will be burned like in a frying pan. LOL I do not claim to know how long the torment lasts. When you get your Bible please let me know the scriptures that you refer to for belief in eternal punishing and torment. Chances are I have addressed them in other videos already but I will have a new video out on this subject this weekend. Labarum312 and Bingolly1 I have respect for and have invited me to participate even though we disagree. We must strive for the truth. GB
mtzion211 2 years ago
Neither do I. God does not relish in our pain.
I think Hell will be the Pain of Loss.....knowing you will never see God.
Anyway I will get back to you with the scripture verses.
PaulsGoodFight 2 years ago
Ok. Thanks for the conversation. It is important that we seek the truth more than to be right. If I am wrong on something I pray that God shows me the truth. I appreciate your spirit in the discussion. God bless you and thanks again.
mtzion211 2 years ago
Again for clarification. I do believe the punishment is eternal. I do not believe the punishing is eternal. Where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched I believe is actually a reference to eternal death, not eternal life. I believe that there is only one way to eternal life, through Jesus. Some may say that eternal life in hell is not eternal life but in the strictest sense it is. From my understanding of the scriptures the question is mortality or immortality. GB
mtzion211 2 years ago
Meant to ask you....what Denomination are you from?
Thanks.
PaulsGoodFight 2 years ago
I was raised a Baptist, I am now non-denominational. I believe that there is truly only those that are saved and those that are lost. Many times denominations tend to separate though I understand with so many differing views why they exist. God bless and thanks for asking.
mtzion211 2 years ago
Hi Tom....here are some verses proving that Hell is a place that will be everlasting and that will entail some form of torment:
1. Is 33:11, 14
2. MT 25:41
3. MT 25:46
4. LK 3:16-17
5. 2 Thess 1:6-9
PaulsGoodFight 2 years ago
Thank you. I will look them over. Please also remember that I believe that there will be torment in hell. I also believe that the separation by eventual annihilation is everlasting. I just do not believe that the torment itself lasts forever. Thanks again.
mtzion211 2 years ago
Hello again. 2 Thess 1:6-9...Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord. This seems to indicate everlasting destruction as the scripture states. This would support annihilation in my opinion as destruction is not everlasting torture. Luke 3:16-17 is a reference to the first coming of Jesus, not hell. The scripture says nothing about eternal torment even if it was speaking of hell. In context it is speaking spiritually of Jesus first coming. (cont)
mtzion211 2 years ago
(cont) Matthew 25:41 .... the everlasting fire is everlasting to destroy the wicked. The scripture here does not teach eternal torture for people. It is important to read what the passage clearly states. Everlasting fire is not the same as everlasting torment for the individual. Isaiah 33, as most of Isaiah, is speaking of Christ's first coming. Even so the passages referred to states "shall devour you". Verse 14 questions who can dwell with the devouring fire? As to say no one can: death.
mtzion211 2 years ago
I wanted to say here that I am not trying to be contentious. I am just pointing out that these scriptures seem to support devouring and destruction more than eternal life in torments. I can find no scripture that supports this teaching when looked at in context and it's proper understanding. You may disagree, this is not a salvation issue so I hope we can still be friends. :) Not only can I not back this up Biblically but I do not see eternal torture falling in line with God's character. GB
mtzion211 2 years ago
It's ok. I would disagree with your interpretation though.
PaulsGoodFight 2 years ago