A dying race- two Boston Brahmins converse (from AMERICAN TO

[bigglyguy]

As an Englishman I can say they sound exactly like you might expect, upper class and yet deffo American.

[knightschwartz]

mass immigration is destroying the west

[ataraxic89]

@knightschwartz destroying? destroying what? A dialect? What does it matter. Its not like the way poeople speak is that important. Sure, its neat. But you people need to accept that the world changes. And thank god for it too, without change is stagnation, and NOTHING grows in stagnation.

[meronmotors]

@ataraxic89 skeeters do!

[Sampanion]

They sound very different from each other to my ear. The chap in the grey sounds British to me, though someone taking any trouble over how clearly he speaks is as rare in Britain as anywhere else. An accent like his would be unusual in Britain.

[ManderMurduh]

I love this accent.

[alexdvance]

dickens is the shit, fuck jane austen WHOOP WHOOP

[agapeiron]

@trilobright I'm lovin' it.

[MrKatyPerryfan]

@trilobright What the hell does this accent have to do with Sarah Palin? Wow you are dumb.

[Smormu]

This accent reminds me of the way people used to talk in silent films.

[heratus007]

Burroughs



[RandomCharacter2011]

Interestingly, if I so choose, I can sound like I'm somebody important to their servants if I so choose as a result of that. I was visiting one of the Ivy League towns, because we have some history there, & stopped for some breakfast, & the man who served us, upon hearing me give a name asked, "The (censored) of what)?" hahaha

[RandomCharacter2011]

Sounds like my childhood. I'm lower class btw, & from upper class jersey.

[redcthulhu]

Dickens is messsyyy, Gawgeeeeee.

[lunhil12]

Like the old Slip Mahoney Brooklynese, also rare to hear in NYC.

[38MJA]

I was on the bridge between Portsmouth and Maine last weekend and I heard an old man who sounded just like the guy on the left.

[sc4portugal]

The one on the left sounds American to me and the one on the right sounds like a middle-class person from South East England

[BennyB5555]

Interesting indeed. I feel like I am watching a rerun of Who's the Boss!? My grandfather spoke with a Massachusetts "Mid-Atlantic" accent." That being said.. there is a clear definition of those who are educated and uneducated by the way a person chooses their words. The American Tangier Accent is - and had remained close/untouched by evolution to the dialect spoke by the original English Colonists. Extremely fascinating!

[imanacer]

Lots of us Young Fogies lament the passing of gents such as these. Along with a particularly refined/posh accent comes the gentlemanly manner they comport themselves (such as in their conversation) and their fine sartorial tastes. Like so many people with culture and education they seem like they'd be fun to chat with or to get some drinks with.

They're really not stodgy or boring at all.

Long live the fogey!

[bostonberkeley]

My grandfather, born in 1901 in Connecticut, spoke like these two men. He was raised by a very proper Victorian mother and had a governess. He never drove a car in his life, I believe it was too vulgar, in his opinion. He was a Congregationalist minister who chose to serve a church in East Boston, a working class neighborhood of Boston. He was an interesting man, I miss him.

[Crazydog7]

Shit that stuck up bastard from MASH got old.

[scotfreak]

the one guy almost has a british accent, yes this accent is still alive in Beacon Hill and thats about it.

[crystaaaahl]

@scotfreak I have a few coworkers that still speak like that ... they are from Arlington & Lexington

[scotfreak]

@crystaaaahl wow!

[Alphabex8]

I watched this film in Anthropology class. it was fascinating to me for one, being from the west coast, there are far less dialects than in other US regions. and because of this i really only thought we all spoke with southern, midwest, or east coast accents. this film showed me how little i knew of American accents.

[BetNoire]

so old and white

[imanacer]

@BetNoire How observant of you, Betnoire!

You get a gold star 'cause you so smart!

[BetNoire]

@imanacer Do they give out gold stars for being uptight and snarky? It would be great if we could both leave here today with a gold star each! :D

[imanacer]

@BetNoire ;-)

[Darkiver]

Haha, my grandfather has this, he's from old new england money so it makes sense....kind of a shame it's dying.

[bluflutterbys]

I love that accent. It almost sounds English.

[koppdk1]

I am from Boston & I have heard people speak like this. Its really stuck up in Maine, believe it or not.

[koppdk1]

I am from Boston & I have heard people speak like this. Its really stuck up in Maine, believe it or not.

[MasterAsra]

It's too bad more people don't talk like this. I'm sure t here's always a market for people with this accent in TV or the media.

[mysticblade35]

Wow.

These guys are so boss.

[wilsonian99]

Does anyone know who they are?, which families etc they belong to

[strangemenssana]

Some US accents are so beautifull.

[guest062888]

@Do they sound a bit British to you?

[pitupraveen]

tinny ... woody ......

[penaboy]

Old assholes !

[can1neperson]

I don't know. You guys hear sophistication in these accents. I hear incest.

[HurricaneXR]

Very cool accent. It certainly makes me think of an "old money" grandmother, perhaps prating on about a distant memory.

[PhilWithCoffee]

I find myself going back to this because I find their mode of speech to be so interesting to listen to. Thank, and at the end, I am still trying to figure out what he was going to say after "I often wonder".

Also, I would love to hear more of them discussing Austen and Dickens! Anyone else agree?

[aegisforex]

Dumb wasps.

[KarmicOmen]

Brahmin is stereotypically called Kennedy-speak outside of Massachusetts. Here in Massachusetts, Brahmin is referred to as "blue blood" or "Harvard".

Not everyone in Massachusetts speaks Brahmin -- unfortunately, it has taken on a harsh, short-spoken, unpolished clip over the years.

Except for our elder generations here, or if one is been raised in a home that speaks Brahmin, it's becoming increasingly uncommon.

[stalkingherbie]

this is exactly how my grandmother speaks! i don't think anyone else speaks like this anymore, but it definitely sounds a bit like british english...

[yasashii89]

its a shame that these beautiful dialects are disapearing, yet the annoying cali accent is getting ever more popular...

[droidsURlooking4]

John Kerry had this accent 'til he was trained to lose it so he wouldn't sound like an elitist.

[50Violetta]

@droidsURlooking4 - Oh, hell! These gents sounds fantastic to me! I'm from Boston, and I'm sick and tired of the stereotypical Boston accent which sounds horrible! Love the "Brahmin" accent--aristocratic and lovely!

[droidsURlooking4]

It's disappearing so whose to blame? Hollywood, MTV, television in general. They are trying to make everyone sound like Britney Spears.

[kives1985]

@droidsURlooking4

Actually, that's not true. People generally speak the way their parents speak. Look up NOrthern Cities Vowel Shift. It's a shift that's happening despite the mass media.

[droidsURlooking4]

@kives1985 I was born there and I can tell you people have a larger influence today due to media (whether it is intentional or not) than just the neighborhood. Also political motivations. Listen to any John Kerry speech before 1980. He spoke like every other blue blood, but was coached into loosing the accent to appeal to a larger audience (and not sound like an aristocrat).

[TikkiHikki]

@droidsURlooking4 Incorrect. Television is doing less to universalize dialect than you would think.

[MickyG4444]

@droidsURlooking4 No I think it's rather the fact that there is always a much a larger underclass. The Boston accent is alive and well, come ovah heya and you'll see. The Brahmin accent belonged to about 20 elite families, so it had a very small pool of people already, and with globalization the uppercrust of Boston are often not even Boston born.

[TheMesophine]

Oh my, these men have sound like my Grandparents. Sadly, I think this accent is going extinct.

[LauraSommer]

Ahhh...the Olde Worldly patrician voices of blue-blooded Boston...doesn't sound unlike middle class Surrey in Southern England.

[LauraSommer]

Ahhh...the Olde Worldly patrician voices of blue-blooded Boston

[p7byrd]

I can listen to them talk all day.

[CaledoniaJeanne]

Well, they are damned cute!

[afosterw]

I'm from Maine and it sounds an awful lot like a Maine accent to me.

[foxyfaefife]

By the way, as a Brit I have to say this accent this clearly sounds American to me although it is unique. If I hadn't known otherwise I probably would have guessed that the guy on the left had a very genteel, light Southern accent and I would have been at a complete loss to place the one the right who with age doesn't speak quite as clearly, though it's clearly very upper middle-class.

[foxyfaefife]

Hard Times > all motherfuckers.

[Shubael1809]

@Greycool727 not entirely Greycool... not entirely ;-)

[PSchnied]

how do you say raisin in french? it's not raison

[fartybraindeath]

@PSchnied rɛzˈã. In standard European French postvocalic "in" is pronounced like the "a" in cat, but nasalised. Or do you just mean how to translate it? You'd say raisin seché = dried grape.

[fartybraindeath]

I mean ʁɛzã 

[sstyblo]

Heard that!

p.s.

I'd like to meet these guys in a dark alley and introduce them and their bowties to a Southie accent.

[Shubael1809]

@sstyblo

Why sstyblo? To prove that you're nothing but Southie Irish trash?

[VictoriaRu29]

Wonderful, wonderful video showing the lovely, lilting Boston Brahmin accent in all its splendor. I have had the privilege, and it definitely is one, to listen to fascinating discussions on English literature between awesome and learned men with this beautiful way of speaking. They are truly gentlemen and scholars! I was born much too late....sigh....

[eddiebax]

Love it; shot in the Boston Atheneum, to boot. This wonderful private library was used in some movie as a law firm's library.  Ha! not even Hale and Dorr have anything nearly this cool.

Makes me want to put on a suit and get stinking drunk at Locke-Ober, just like the Kennedys.

[TheChaplinLover]

They're adorable!

[CaledoniaJeanne]

@TheChaplinLover - I must agree with you!

[baigandine]

I think his every whim was catered to and his family never left the house in all these 350 years.

[soccerkjr]

fucking weird

[deviousimpulse]

This accent reminds me of the way people used to talk in old, black & white movies.

[rabbitspliff]

haha, exactly what i was thinking. it's like that american/british accent but a different american accent mixed with bbc english than in those old films.

[Gulfporter]

@deviousimpulse That's called a stage accent, as well as pretentious. The thing is, as soon as you mention the subject of accents, people start putting on or taking away. Very few can remain unselfconscious.

[killlsurfcity]

@Gulfporter actually, the movie accent is based on this particular accent. actors had to train to talk like that. look it up.

[Gulfporter]

@killlsurfcity

I'm not sure I agree. The stage accent I was referring to is softer, more rounded, and lacking the decidedly Bostonian snarl that the two men in the video present. However, you did say "based on" rather than "identical to" so perhaps we're not actually disagreeing on that.

I will say that actors have historically done a better job of imitating the northern aristocratic accents than the southern accents of any type. They are always over the top on the southern accents.

[yitzchak13]

@deviousimpulse yeah, i know what you mean. Bette Davis spoke like this

[istara]

I think these men have lovely accents. Particularly the one with the bowtie.

[yasashii89]

out of all of the american accents, this one sounds the nicest to listen to

[CaledoniaJeanne]

@yasashii89 - Perhaps their accents are the nicest, but trust me, a Boston accent-- particularly a hard Boston accent--is most unpleasant. Makes me shudder to think of it!

[UNCfan102]

This IS NOT remnents of the british accent in the United States. The London accent has never been widely used in America. In fact, there were a group of brits who visited the colonies in the early 1700s who noted that Americans were mostly accentless and that those who had one spoke with a nasally sounding voice. This dialect was most likely an upper class imitation of a british accent.

[andy7666]

stupidjunk - lots of people speak like this, in England at least certainly! The different American accents used to be just the same as the British regional accents - Irish, Scots, English, Welsh and then thier local variants. I'm sure there are still quite a few "English sounding" Americans still out there but sadly fewer and fewer as the clip suggests.

[ireneshusband]

No one speaks like this in England. However it sounds very strange to me as an Englishman because there is so much of it that does sound like it comes from the higher classes of English society, but mixed up with sounds that are quite alien, Bostonian on occasion. The Boston accent is one with which British English speakers are much less familiar with than, say, that of California, New York or those of the South.

[Shubael1809]

@ireneshusband you're mistaken irene'shusband. I've been to East Anglia (from whence this accent originates) and listening to the locals the accent is very similar.

Your comment "the Boston accent is one with which British English spears are much less familiar and, say, that of California, New York or the South" is preposterous. Go to Buffalo, NY and tell me that's more similar to regional English!!

[fartybraindeath]

@Shubael1809 [from ireneshusband via a new a/c] I must say that the similarity with E Anglian dialects is not obvious until it is pointed out, and in any case, most of us only know E Anglian speech from hearing comedians imitate it. British TV is saturated with shows set in California, NYC etc, and very little from Boston, so it is indeed fair to say that Bostonian English is relatively unfamiliar in the UK.

[foxyfaefife]

@fartybraindeath It's pretty impossible to avoid Cheers reruns. Anyway, Lloyd Grossman's bizarre accent is very much a source of parody here and as far as I'm aware recently The Departed and Mystic River were pretty well received. I myself am familiar with a few Boston accents but not this particular one.

[fartybraindeath]

@foxyfaefife Cheers reruns can be avoided if you are strongly determined. Lloyd Grossman's voice is so weird that I just assumed he'd moved house too many times when he was growing up. All I have seen of the The Wire (in spite of my best intentions) is a trailer. That was strange enough to my ears – a non-rhotic accent with Canadian raisings – but it is still a long way from Boston Brahmin. Then there was JFK, but he didn't really sound like these people either.

[foxyfaefife]

@fartybraindeath It does take a bit of effort - getting rid of Paramount Comedy helps I suppose. Not sure if you meant The Wire, but that's based in Baltimore. Apparently there's a huge difference between that and a strong Boston accent, but I really can't pick up on that. Anyway, the two films I mentioned were working class Boston accents. Just saying that I think most people have a vague idea what the accent sounds like, but that it's defnitely not this 'Brahmin' that comes to mind.

[fartybraindeath]

@foxyfaefife You are right – Baltimore... Which kind of proves my point...

[Xozona]

@andy7666 Why exactly is it "sad" that most of us don't retain such accents? We are not the UK or Ireland so why should we sound like it?

[thumpybass64]

My grandparents talk like these guys, it's so cool

[philomelodia]

For those interested, I have collected 3 examples of Boston Brahmin, Locust Valley Lockjaw and Midatlantic. They are pre mass media and feature men born in the mid 19th century. Enjoy.

Henry Cabot Lodge from MA ca 1920 Boston Brahmin:

watch?v=0x2TGuMdGB0

Theodore Roosevelt From NY ca 1912 Locust Valley Lockjaw:

watch?v=hv-VNTtUYZo

Wiliam MacKinley From Ohio 1896 Midatlantic

watch?v=m6ZUneyU7Vo

[soundsfromnothing]

I'm definitely going to watch these philo. Thanks for posting them.

[Albukhshi]

thanks for posting.

but I thought Mckinley was dressing up his speech, and didn't actually speak that way in day to day life. I never heard anyone from that timeperiod from Ohio speak like that.

[chel3SEY]

I listened to the recordings you recommended. All very interesting. H. C. Lodge's accent sounds "mid-Atlantic" to me, rather than Boston Brahmin. It is an accent that seems to have been quite common among certain groups and strata of US society. Katherine Hepburn has it. So do lots of actors and actresses in movies before 1960. I suspect that it was often contrived and affected, to convey something that that accent still conveys to most Americans.

[stupidjunk878]

nobody talks like this

[jacquesjapan]

Nice accent and the gentlemen on the right is correct about J.A. =)

[takalua911]

Not really that fascinating. Americans associate stupid English accents with being thought of s upper class.

Quite pathetic really, not to mention....naff!

[PhilWithCoffee]

Very fascinating accents, it's a shame there aren't many people who speak like that anymore. I've done a bit of reading on the Quebecois accent and how it varies from the Parisian, and it makes me wonder if it's the same with this one. It's a combination of the different accents from throughout England. It's uppity, but still very classy.

[DermochelysCoriacea]

It really is a shame.

[soundsfromnothing]

I find this accent fascinating (as it said to be one of the surviving accents of the original English settlers). I know that Franklin D. Roosevelt spoke w/a Brahim accent & others have too. It's always a shame to see accents disappear..because they are a vocal record/reminder of our history.

[blondeonblonde1966]

um, you're completely wrong and need to get your facts straight. this is a novel accent, an affectation of that which was spoken across the pond - not at all "one of the surviving accents of the original English settlers".

[soundsfromnothing]

It may have originally been influenced by the British, but it has been around, since the 1700's, I believe. That, (as opposed to the hybrid accents of the mid-west & the west-California, Washington etc.) would make it one of the "surviving accents." Oh, & speaking of influence and affectation, I guess the British accents could be considered artificial too. It wasn't until after British colonists began settling America, that the Brits(in England themselves)began dropping the R's at the end of a

[soundsfromnothing]

word. "River" became "Rivah" and so forth. This was done because it was popular. It had nothing to do with other English accents.

[philomelodia]

A word on rhoticity (r's at the ends of words and before consonants(. From what I've read, English began to develop this tendency after the Hanoverians came to power in England. I think this is around 1715 or so. So, someone in Boston around, say 1686 wouldn't have sounded this way but someone around 1776 would have.

[soundsfromnothing]

Thanks for the info on that. :) That makes sense too, with America having (initially) followed the customs, trends (and also migration patterns of those still coming over here from England at that time.

[philomelodia]

I think you're confusing this accent with another called "mid atlantic." Which was affected by members of the upper class in past centuries to be equally acceptable on both sides of the ocean. Listen to Grover Cleveland, William MacKinley's and Bill Buckley's accent for rl examples and Orson Wells in Citizen Cane for mass media versions. This is not quite the same accent. Nor is it Locust Valley Lockjaw (FDR and Teddie Roosevelt.)

[DermochelysCoriacea]

Would it be frowned upon to affect permanently a mid-atlantic dialect?

[philomelodia]

YOu've got to be wealthy, highly educated and born somewhere around 1950 or earlier to get away with it, I think. I've never ehard a young speaker of midatlantic or any of the similar accents I mentioned.

[DermochelysCoriacea]

Dammit. It's all I want. Why can't I have it...I am so sad.

[andy7666]

You can speak how you want to! I've never tried to mimic a certain accent just to fit in - if you are comfortable speaking "the Queens English" or anything approaching that, then do so! In Britain there are so many young people who dumb themselves down on purpose, who try to sound as un-educated as possible, to copy the slang and patois of immigrant communities just to fit in and be "cool". They copy black and asian kids in thier speech and manner, this is all promoted in the media. A shame.

[ireneshusband]

Everyone copies accents to some extent to fit in. How else would we learn our own accents? But I do agree that sometimes it can be a bit phoney and forced.

[GuitaristInProgress]

@soundsfromnothing Actually this accent is artificial, it was taught in boarding schools in the mid-20th century. The Tangier Island accent, from the Chesapeake Bay, is thought to be the closest current descendant of the original colonists' accent It's truly strange sounding. You can hear it in /watch?v=AIZgw09CG9E&t=039

[copyright1982]

I think the man in the bow tie has a MUCH stronger Brahmin accent than the man in the 3 piece suit. Note how the suit man says, "compared" (around :49--very blue collar) and "Boston" (1:09) In comparison to the bow tied man saying, "Here" and "Years"

[blondeonblonde1966]

actually aren't they speaking different upper crust accents? notice the differing o vowels in "novelist"

[burntrubber11]

Before the Irish Came over to boston, New England was Primarly Britsh Speaking like. Not Trying to Sound like a Doucebag

[numberonesurvivor75]

Although I'm a very amateur linguist, I think the Irish immigration had a very minor role in the general dialect. As H.L. Mencken noted in is "The American Language," there was a strong proletariat in addition to intellectual deacons. The mark of an Irishman in Britain is rhoticity. I'm from the New Bedford area and I'm 20 and The accent I hear from Irish Americans bears a stronger resemblance to speech in East Anglia than to Ireland. Besides, I think Handasyd was a Welsh name.

[ffairlane57]

No one knows what the Rev. Cotton Mather sounded like

[hedwig85]

i hear elements of the 'Maine' dielect in their speech.

[RhettThanas]

Interesting I've never heard of their being any relationship between the two. Maine was part of Massachusetts until 1820.

[IoSonoUomo]

One of my friends is from Long Island, and although he grew up in a blue-collar family, he went to some fancy-dancy prep school and came out sounding totally British.

[alaadamy2]

Neither one of these men is using shakespere English with its many stem changes and endings like , I taketh ,goest, and goeth. No pronounds like thee and thine, thou etc.On these grounds, no one today can make this claim of liguistic superiority. Not even 'Elizabeth' of England.

[salugramaradha]

stupidity

[ass347]

they sound southern to me

[onithor]

Dickens is messy George.

[dapunkof1975]

Hahaha they sound English.

[nobella3]

its not a race its a dialect of boston.

[Moionfire]

it is just a figure of speech...