If there were more Mormons in the world, it wouldn't be worth living in. Bunch of brain dead fools without the ability to think properly for themselves! It's the warning that every zombie movie is telling us!!!! Join the Mormons and lose your soul!!!
Terrorism in any form is unacceptable .. I want to see LDS Inc out of business but not via hatred .. I want the work of the Holy Spirit to continue, that will get the job done. As long a Mormons can fall back on the Hatred/Persecution Card the true work of the Holy Spirit cannot continue to free them ... Give them peace and allow the truth to reach them.
things were said in the past and you have no reliable source. people made stuff up about them because they were told what they believe theyre whole life was false and that they needed to change
These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues [today it might be from churches]; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them."
only Mormons are allowed in your temples. Christians allow any.
Another tried this same thing and met with something he never could anticipate.
I have - how shall we say-
a certain "diplomatic immunity" against such curses.
But be sure -
Your curses shall be visited upon you and yours seven-fold. What has been imagined against me shall be returned to you with the same unbridled and wicked fury that spawned it from your own soul.
You are dark and know not the wickedness of your heart.
Muslims are not being persecuted. (does September 11 ring a bell?) Because of their evil radicalism, they are reaping what they sow.
Jews and Christians are being persecuted Biblically. For not denying JESUS> John 15: Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me.
If you think getting rocks thrown at is persecution, then you are misunderstanding what persecution is. look up CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION WORLDWIDE'' . The true believers of Christ are being persecuted on a Biblical bases. You Mormons don't know persecution until you see my Brothers and sisters in the middle east and Asia getting persecuted. From beatings, being burned with fire, beheaded, crushed with steam rollers. Don't accuse rock throwers as persecutors.
Why are you trying to brag about Christians being persecuted anyways? Everyone in the world is persecuted. Muslims are, Jews especially are, Christians are, blacks are, whites are, asians are.....everybody is persecuted for something so why brag?
What I'm trying to say sean is that you need to understand your churches history and what it's based (what type of people)on and how it came about. Make your own personal judgement after finding out the facts and not what they tell you to believe. You can feel like your part of a family by joining a gang etc.. anyone can pat you on the back and give you a cookie but that doesn't make their doctrines true. The bible is the written inspired Word of God. Jesus defeated satan with it "it is written"
I'm sorry Exodus. My relatives are coming over. I'll talk tomorrow. I haven't been my mother's sister in two years and they parted company on REALLY bad terms. Honestly, you may think I'm jumping ship but trust me, if I could hold this off I could. I just hope this doesn't lead to a bunch of yelling from my Aunt.
Before anyone jumps into that. Let me just say that if anyone wants to support a GLOBAL organization, they have to have investments and ways to make profit in order to maintain their organization and grow also. Most of the major Churches in America and around the world have investments and ways to make profit. Don't tell me that isn't true or risk inserting your foot in your mouth.
And so far in my years of being a latter day saint I have yet to see works of "pure vileness." Only works of goodness have I seen. Some people ask if we know where our tithing money goes. Yes, we do, anyone could ask without dramatically pointing their finger at us. Tithing funds are used to build, buy, and maintenance buildings. They are also used in caring for the poor and in the Church's investments. Church investments! Oh no! That sounds like some sort of profit is being made there!
Shawn is awesome. He always speaks the truth about Mormonism. Can't wait to meet him in person. I have taught so many people out of Mormonism by showing them a few truths about the history, about how fake the Book of Mormon is and that Joe Smith was a pedophile is it is amazing. Glad to see so many people leave this disgusting cult..
LDS people, don't even bother with these kinds of people. All they have is blind dark hatred. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Listen to your feelings.
Do you know what it means when the Bible talks about their fruits? What did the LDS teach you that it means? Read Matthew 7 and you will see part of it.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit." I know what I have been taught. Do you think that posts like these bring forth goodwill and peace?
So you think Matthew 7 is talking about goodwill and peace? Sorry Sean, Jesus said that He, not any organization or religion or church, is the truth (John 14:6). And youre really going to have to give Matthew 7:15-20 another look, because it does not say what you try to make it say. Jesus was not talking about identifying Christians at all! He was warning them to beware of false prophets (verse 15), and telling them to judge whatever prophets come to them by their fruits (teachings)...
The fruits of false prophets? False prophecies! Apple trees bring forth apples, pear trees bring forth pears, and false prophet trees bring forth false prophecies! You can bank on it. These false prophecies can be in the form of false predictions of future events, or they can be in the form of false teachings that contradict scripture.
So you better take a good look at your so called prophets? What fruit have they produced, if any?
We believe in latter day revelation, as I have said. Joseph Smith predicted the U.S. Civil War and gave to us from God the Word of Wisdom. BTW it was discovered in the next century after Joseph Smith that tobacco was wrong for the body, amongst other things. I am not going to list all of the prophecies that have been fulfilled and are being fulfilled as we speak. Do some research and pray with an open mind and heart.
First I said since Joseph Smith, you said you are still being guided by your prophets. I am not going to get into all Joe false prophecies unless you want me to show you. You can look it up yourself. As for research? you need to look it up, google "joseph smith's false prophecies".
Exodus that's the differnece between Seandc100 and you, you're probably an ex-member bc you went looking for things wrong in the church and that is Satan's way of getting you to leave the Mormon religion and all others that leave it behind. It's his best tool. And people have spread rumors about Joseph Smith that are all not true, it's like telling you that the Civil War didn't happen....well do you know for sure you weren't alive 140 years ago. It's about prayer and studying my friend.
I do study it by going to my Mormon Temple. We learn much of that doctrine that you don't get the privledge of hearing. No Exodus you have it wrong read D&C 70 over again please.
I would never tell the sacredness ordinances that go on in the temple that is very sacred to our church. If you are so interested soften your heart and join the Mormon church and they'll let you in after a year, and the truth will be open to you my friend. The temple ordinances match perfectly those temples of olden times from the Bible.
So Jesus said salvation and spending eternity with God in Heaven is a secret? Only the chosen can know it? Where in the Bible does it say anything is not to be told? Just the fact that the LDS temples are to be only for the worthy is against God. Now if you are a Free Mason then yes they have secret rituals and then sure, in fact Joseph Smith was Free Mason so where did he get these Temple rituals? From God or from a cult?
Look I'm done trying to bible bash with you because I'm never going to believe a word you say and you're never going to believe anything I say it's just as simple is that. I'm sure you are a good person and I appreciate your belief in Christ. I think anybody with a belief in Christ is a good person. God loves all his children even those who have done a lot of wicked. I love my religion and I find much happiness in it. Nothing would ever cause me to leave with all the love and peace I feel.
"I think anybody with a belief in Christ is a good person" James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." So again are all who believe in Jesus good? Who is Jesus to you, that is the main factor and is Jesus enough?
Wow wow what are you talking about? You sound like a philosopher that is asking me the stupidest questions. Of course I believe in Christ? I'm a Mormon and a Christian I have a belief in Christ last time I saw the dictionary definition of a Christian it was the belief in Christ.
"You sound like a philosopher that is asking me the stupidest questions." So who Jesus is and if He is enough is a "stupid" question? I see that you are lost! If the Dictionary is going to judge you then you are ok, sorry to say it is not. God will and that is where you fall short. Where did God ever say Jesus was the created being our older brother? Where did God say He was once a man (flesh and bone) like us on another planet?
But all that is stupid right? Good luke with eternity my friend!
Sorry Exodus, I have studied my scriptures as well. It may be the case that we have two different versions of the Bible. You are so right. Jesus is the truth and light of the world. But anything that he says is also the truth. That is the difference between you and me. I believe in modern day revelation. I believe that we still have prophets that guide us through the quagmire of these last days.
Really? Prophets guiding you? so then there must have been a lot of prophecied made since Joseph Smith and they must have all came true. I am not talking about them saying they are going to build a temple somewhere. So can you list some of these prophecies that guide you?
And yes. It is obvious to anyone reading that passage and having ANY experience with their fellow man. It is talking about people and general. There are many false prophets among us. Many teachers that teach different doctrines.
You have not read Matthew 7. The scarry part for the LDS is verse 22 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful WORKS? ?(church of JESUS CHRIST, in his name)
You do not want to wait tell you are face to face to find out you were wrong.
dude, you're in a religion that is based on pure vileness and control measures. Vowing to have your throat slit if you give up mormon secrets. Come ON man, think for yourself. If you lived back then would you slit someone's throat because you felt like you had to to save that person from their sin? Human Sacrifice! You guys just have a watered down version to fit the laws. Stop with all this poor me boo hoo you hate me crap. Mormonism is SICK! Stop making excuses.
"Pure vileness?" Honestly man. Vowing to have our throats slit? Maybe you should stop ingesting the kool aid and ask a real LDS the questions. Don't ask apostate hacks. Be reasonable. Would you ask a Muslim what a Jew believed when that Muslim used to be a Jew? Or vice-verse.
We don't have "secrets" like everyone says. They are promises between us and the Lord that are sacred to us. Would you like conversations that you had with your wife in private splattered all over the web?
Funny I thought God tore the veil of the Temple from top to bottom, Opening it to all? So why can't I go into any temple right now? Did God change His mind and sew it back up?
No, that temple was desecrated. Ours have not been. We do not use our temples to make profit and take advantage of people. Businesses do not make their way into our halls.
When was it desecrated? Jesus cleaned it. When was the Veil torn? When Jesus died on the Cross, the earth quaked, rocks were split "and the Veil in the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom" (Matthew 27:51). "From top to bottom" indicates that God tore it, because the Veil in the Temple was 25 metres high...
Matthew 27:54 and Luke 23:47 both record that the Centurion at the crucifixion site saw the Veil tearing in two. This means that this Gentile sinner could also see straight into the Holy of Holies. This is a picture to show us that it is now possible, on the basis of faith in Jesus' death for our sins, to stand in the presence of God as justified and forgiven people (Romans 5:1-2).
your beloved prophet brigham young preached "blood atonement". read it, it's a fact. Mormons were murdering people for sin they considered unatonable by Christ's blood.
Sacred promises? your in a fantasy world of no wrong and right. Would you go to a theif and ask him if he's really a theif?
Then have someone pick apart those conversations to make out like you are a wicked person. I love my religion. I would be dead or in bad shape without it. It has brought peace into my life, a tangible peace that can be felt in my home. I have seen blessings save people's lives. Call it coincidence if you want, but my life has always gone better, and I have felt better, when following the commandments of God. I know with all of my heart that this Church is true.
Matt. 23: 13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
This scripture is still relevant today, as we have televangelists making disciples twofold more
No, we don't teach that you have to join any church to live with God. All people, no matter what they did here on earth are going to live with God. All people, will have access to God at some level. No one is cut off completely from God.
Celestial Kingdom gets Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Terrestrial Kingdom gets Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost only
Telestial Kingdom gets Holy Ghost only.
Did you know we believe that?
I think we have the more merciful gospel plan being taught here. Its true.
Judge not, but there is an outer darkness where sons of perdition go. They get no contact, but its really hard to be a son of perdition. You have to try hard to be that bad that you take on God after He has revealed Himself to you. Did Judas do that? I'm thinking let God judge, He knows the heart.
Then not everyone goes to heaven, do they? If you read the Bible alone, you would find it's really EASY to go to hell, or outer darkness. Here's what you have to do to go to hell...absolutely nothing. Second, only God has the PROOF of what's in the heart, but the EVIDENCE of what's in the heart comes out for everyone to see (Mark 7:18-23, which also refutes the whole concept of the Word of Wisdom, on a side note, but that's another topic altogether).
Just about. You can probably count sons of perdition on one hand. Its rare that someone is that stupid, spiritually.
As for your version of hell, and making that eternal, well there is no way that justice enters into the equation the way you guys spin/believe it. God is just. He is merciful. Justice does not punish a sinner forever and ever and ever. No, its "eternal" punishment, or "God's" punishment. Its got a time limit on it like Jesus did.
Believe me, if it were up to me, I would MUCH rather have YOUR belief in heaven and hell than mine. But, unfortunately, it's not up to me. I believe hell is eternal because the Bible says it is. Shoot, even the BoM teaches in one heaven and hell. What's more, the BoM doesn't even teach the 3 degrees of glory! In the Bible, look up Matt. 25:46, Rev. 14:9-11. Next post I will post the BoM references to heaven and hell...
God is love. I understand a little about love, being a parent. I love those 12 kids so much. I would be extremely sad if I made them sad, and kept them sad for time and all eternity, because I had a rule that says if they ever mess up, they will be spanked forever and ever.
Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
God is better than that. Hell's punishment IS finite.
No parent or wanna-be parent (like myself) wants to make their child sad. But read Matt. 25:46 again. It says EVERLASTING punishment. From the way the Bible speaks of hell, anyone who goes there will wish that all hell was was just an eternal spanking, but it's FAR worse than that.
I don't expect that we'll be in the same place. Heaven is three parts. Even Paul talked of this. Good things await, and if you disdain the temples of God, you won't be in a place where that is important. You will be happy, but damned nonetheless, if you settle on the heaven that does NOT include the presence of the Father, which is Eternal Life. Its not hell, but it is still a settlement. and it is forever.
But if you won't be at the same place as the Heavenly father. You will be busy producing spiritual children with all your wives and be the god of your own world. That's directly contrary to what Christ said, but I digress. Both you Mormons and the Islamic men who look forward to their forty something virgins will be very surprised after your death. Then you will be crying, "why did you not make me listen?" But it will be too late.
What you say is all false doctrine as far as we LDS are concerned. You guys manufacture this, and then REPEAT it. I refute it.
Nowhere does it say that I have to have more than ONE wife, and I don't want more than one wife. It may happen, but I sure don't seek it.
Nowhere does it say that I will be "my own God" and ruling "my own planet." That was made up a long time ago with the bogus godmakers movie made by someone similar to Shawn, and excommunicated adulterous man who lost all hope.
Here is what JS said from his King Follet discourse: I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us.
Perhaps you have never paid attention to the words of Hie thee to Kolob which presents an eternal succession of gods . . .
. . . in an eternal universe. The only thing that is manufactured is your cover up of Mormon doctrine, Your "refutation" is as empty and laughable as Joseph Smith's "refutation" of an eternal God. According to Jesus, there is no sex in heaven with one wife or with forty,. You need to open your eyes. Your eternal destiny is at stake.
Do different levels of heaven correspond to how how well one has lived; more good works the higher the level?
This goes against the Bible itself.
2 Corinthians 12:2 Paul is writing this verse about himself, and that he is referring to his own visionary experience on the road to Damascus some years earlier (Acts 9:1-9, 22:6-11).
It was this experience that caused Paul to claim in another letter that he had seen the risen Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-10, Galatians 1:12).
So then when the LDS call the name God who is that? Father, Son or Holy Ghost?
The name god is who? who is the highest god? are they all one god or separate? So in the Bible it says to spend eternity with God who is it talking about?
I am sure you have twisted something to show this.
Jesus prayed to the Father. He told all to pray to the Father. That's what I do. I don't pray to Jesus, because Jesus said to pray to the Father. After this manner, He said:
OK, you can rationalize this with an interpretation on what you think was going on there. But Jesus was specific. Jesus taught us HOW to pray. He said you pray to the Father. That's clear:
Matt. 6: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Maybe Stephen was NOT at the Sermon on the Mount, and "didn't get the memo?" Nevertheless, we KNOW what Jesus said.
So, Stephen sinned when he called upon the name of Jesus? I'm not saying 'Don't pray to the Father'. I do. But, it's also Scripturally acceptable to pray to Jesus as well.
Stephen surely didn't sin, being a martyr. I named my son after him. Wonderful man.
You're right. There are times when people are going to call out to Jesus. Happened in the Book of Mormon too:
3 Nephi 19:17 And it came to pass that when they had all knelt down upon the earth, he commanded his disciples that they should pray. 18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God. 22 ...and they pray unto me because I am with them.
mormonanswerman, when I asked if you would be willing to do a moderated debate, I didn't mean with Shawn M. But I since I posed the question to you on his site, I can see how you would come to that conclusion. However you did state you would be willing to do a 10 minute video on a topic of your choosing, send it in to Shawn M., and he could comment on it. You also stated you would be willing to have a phone conversation during this event. I think that would be wonderful. However one of the...
problems I see is the topic should and must be a topic that both of you would agree on. Do you believe that's only fair?. Then there's the case of a moderator who would keep the both of you from going down rabbit trails, such as giving a personal testimony, or going off the topic, things of this nature.
I do hope something could be arranged because I believe it would be good for all to see and hear. Perhaps you could get in contact with Shawn M. and see if something could be arranged.
I'm not going to contact him. I am not that anxious to do this, it wasn't my idea. If I can't even bear my testimony, then forget it. That's like saying, "don't be yourself" when he gets to bear satan's testimony of destroying the faith of others. That's one sided.
mormonanswerman, I'm sorry you feel this way. Again, when I made those suggestions, such as neither one of you bearing your testimony, that's all that was, a suggestion. I don't work, nor do I personally know Shawn M. I have seen other debates, live and on youtube, with people with differing views express their points very well, and with no hostility. But both sides must agree to all the terms, whatever they might be.
Anyway, please give the issue some further thought, and one day reconsider.
Actually it is your testimony that does not work. Nobody's testimony is as important as God's testimony. God's testimony (found in Isaiah 43:10) is that there were no gods formed before Him and none after him. Your testimony is that there has been from eternity a succession of gods and there will continue to be others formed and raised to godhood through eternity. Your testimony contradicts God's testimony thus your testimony is worthless . . . and even evil.
With out their testimony and litany of "I know's" they have now way out against the true word of God. No Mormon would ever agree to a debate where they could get backed in to a theological corner and then start rattling off their "I know the church is true" speech. But it would be nice to see one try. Which further proves Mormonism isn't truth. Christians don't need to get teared eyed and start their "I know's," because God is on our side.
The fact is, you don't KNOW. So you put down those that say they do, because YOU don't.
Personal revelation is by FAR superior to just reading the Bible and proclaiming it is true, without knowing. WIthout personal revelation you don't even know if the Bible is true. What good is that? Talk about a blind situation. We remove the blinders to everything when we let God speak to us in personal prayers, and let the Holy Ghost inspire and teach and witness to truth.
@mormonanswerman ugh... you're missing the point. Many Christians believe in revelation as well. And perhaps many would describe it the same way as Mormons. There is however a fundamental difference. It's not base on just "feelings/emotions" as it is for Mormons. The HG doesn't just work on feelings. If you served a mission I could give an example of how this is proven to be a problem. The HG works by also confirming preexisting truth evident through bible study.
They believe and say that its all in the Bible, and that the heavens are closed, there is no need for prophets, no need for additional scriptures, no need for any more God...
God said:
2 Ne. 29:10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men ...that they shall write the words which I speak unto them;
So you're going to try to tell me what I believe as a Christian after your diatribe about saying I have no authority to talk about Mormonism after being one. You sir are a hypocrite! Many Christians believe God reveals truth and direction from the Spirit. Prove to me otherwise. And since I don't believe in the BoM you quoting from it means nothing to me. Of course Joe Smith would write something in his work of fiction to defend and support itself... please!
Wow what a confusing way to say its how I feel that I go by. So when you are going into surgury are you going to ask the doctore to just go by his feelings or are you going to make sure he KNOWS what he is doing? Maybe next time you go into the dentist you should just ask the dentist to pray and go by his feeling which tooth needs fixing or pulled.
Look up the Bereans, they were who God said had it right.
Most of the time there will be no problem with a doctor or dentist. But no, I don't pray before I go in to them, but if I got a powerful feeling from the Holy Ghost to get out, I am NOT going to ignore that. THat's where REAL trust in God comes in, something that most people will never do or know about, because they don't take the leaps of faith necessary to experience that kind of life, the truly God led, God inspired life.
Well, martyr or not, Stephen didn't sin. I will agree with you on one thing though. Stephen is a good name to emulate. But, like I said, it's Scripturally acceptable to pray to Jesus as well as the Father. While I primarily pray to the Father, I have no qualms with praying to Jesus.
But you can only go to the "highest degree" by following the Mormon Plan of Salvation, namely doing everything to go to the temple. Which you can't do unless you are a "worthy" Mormon. That I know for fact having gone to the temple numerous times.
Maybe you should learn what other Christians believe.
There is no higher or lower degrees. There is no marriage in heaven. There are not going to be gods of other worlds.. People have one choice now.. No choices in the after life.. Choose Christ and live with Him through all of eternity or choose not to follow Christ and be damned. All of this baptizing for the dead is wasted time that should be spent on the living.
I happen to LIKE marriage. I happen to LIKE families. I have seen SINGLE people in this life, in fact, I have BEEN ONE a while back...
You are trying to tell me that heaven is about being SINGLE? No families? No marriage? None of that?
Guess what? I don't want your IDEA of heaven. It doesn't make ANY sense at all, except if you were talking about being DAMNED, then it does, for that's what being single is about: being damned. Don't want it.
When you read about the Bride or God who is that? its us. You are by far not going to be single and not alone either. You will be alone in Hell though, many will be there but you will be alone. So if you do not like that idea you better make sure you are on the correct path.
You speak of heaven, of being single, of brides of Christ as if you know a lot about it. Well, I have read the Bible too and there is no way you can come to ANY understanding from a reading of that text alone just what awaits us in the place called heaven. You just don't know.
You speak of us being a "bride" to Christ, like you know what that means. To me, it is symbolic of how he feels about us, but it is NOT literal. I am a MAN. I am not going to be Jesus' "bride" literally. You neither.
So when you got married did you say two becoming one? is that true are you and your wife one? so you have four legs and arms two heads? hmm maybe its not literal right?
Personally I don't believe their could be a better way to live than be a bride of Christ.. As for fleshly desires they won't be a part of us any longer. And from your response I'd wonder if you truly do have a relationship with Christ.
To know Him is to love Him..
The Physical realm and the Spiritual are 2 different things. If you expect heaven to be physical and fleshy,
I'd understand your answer. Christianity doesn't believe that.. Nothing about Mormonism speaks of true Christianity.
You don't need to wonder and worry if I have a relationship with Christ. You need to worry only about yourself, as Jesus said judge not. And as for the physical realm, we have only to thank Jesus Christ for that gift, for ALL PEOPLE will be resurrected and will have this body of flesh and bone forever. FOREVER. If you don't understand that, you need to read MORE MATTHEW, MORE MARK, LUKE and JOHN, for there are accounts that show Jesus had a body of FLESH and BONE.
Luke's account shows some very specific things on this:
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
Jesus ATE MEAT and honeycomb, and he SAID what he was. Remember this??
1 cor 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
That's the problem with mormon doctrine. You've cherry picked so many verses to prop up mormonism you miss it.
That scripture says flesh and BLOOD. Read it carefully.
Jesus had flesh and BONE and mentions nothing of BLOOD in Luke where is speaks of Jesus resurrected and appearing to the apostles in His resurrected condition.
A perfect body of flesh and bone and no blood, for that is earthly. I agree wholeheartedly with that scripture you quoted. Completely. Do you?
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
It says FLESH!
yeah, i believe the bible but not you or the book of mormon.
The word AND means that both have to be true. If you did any computer programming like I have done, you would know that there is a major difference between the term AND and OR, and if it said flesh OR blood, you would be right, but because it says flesh AND blood, they BOTH have to be true for it to mean what YOU say.
In this case, the COMBINATION of flesh AND blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. I know that.
So , what is it that you believe? Do you believe that God has a body like us in the state were in now? Or do you believe that Jesus has an immortal incorruptible body? The bible teaches that Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection and that in the resurrection we will receive an immortal spirit body and we'll be like Jesus, or the type of spritual form that He's in right now.
Well to be honest I won't debate what we will be, whether we have flesh and bones as we do now or not, I really don't see it as relevant. But when I was referring the the physical and fleshly, I was referring to the sins of the flesh. Lust will definitely not be a part of heaven. Being the bride of Christ wouldn't compare to the flesh relationship here as to a husband and wife.
Being one with Christ yes, not being one physically.
Funny how the Mormon scribes (apologists), pharasees (church leadership), and hypocrites (general membership) don't get it. Praise God for his truth and word! Thanks for posting these videos. It's nice to see the whole show online though.
I have to go back to the original Matthew 23:13,15. If you read this it is talking about the Hypocrites and the Pharisees. When God commanded the Jews to not carry a burden on the Sabbath, the Pharisees decided that they would define burden. Just like the LDS define what the Bible says as long as it goes along with what Joseph Smith wrote. So you have to ask yourself, do you following what Jesus said or what Joesph Smith said?
Well, if I confined it only to Jesus, like you say, then I would still believe what Joseph Smith said, because you guys seem to willfully IGNORE what Jesus taught and go straight to Paul.
I would ask YOU, if you did not read anything in the Bible AFTER Matt, Mark, Luke, and John, what would YOUR gospel look like?
I think it would look like what I believe. You can't misunderstand JESUS, but apparently you guys have really twisted Paul's words beyond recognition.
I would still be saved because they gave all that was needed to be saved. They were the few first hand witnesses of Jesus and that is what is required to be an apostle, when did your apostles walk with Jesus? I guess your gods don't think that was important.
They are not MY apostles. But the Holy Ghost has confirmed to me that they DO walk and talk with Jesus Christ, of that I know now. They may not say it directly because of the command by Christ to NOT cast your pearls before swine (it still applies), but I can say it. I don't care if you "turn and rend me" at all.
It has nothing to do with casting pearls before swine. The real apsostles of Chirst's time let nothing stand in their way from professing they saw christ. The "apostles" of Mormonism can do no such thing! The most they can say is they believe or have faith in Christ. One cannot be walking with Christ when they only use the Bible "as far as it is translated correctly" as justification in attempts to authenticate the Bom.
Paul WOULD say that. He participated in the killing of innocent Christians. He is going to toe the line from that time forth that he became a Christian.
The Book of Mormon has an account of Alma who had a similar experience, and he too became a flawless servant of the Lord. Very humble though, because they know there is nothing to be arrogant about when you have been struck down by the Lord while in the path of sin. Those guys were exceptions, but they were NOT the worst of sinners ANYMORE.
Not only that, Paul also said that the things he said he SHOULD do, he didn't, and the things he SHOULDN'T do he did anyway. Something for further posterity to your point.
@mormonanswerman - "The Book of Mormon has an account of Alma who had a similar experience, and he too became a flawless servant of the Lord." First of all no one is perfect. Second how convenient that there should be a story in the BOM just like something in the Bible. No, the BOM wasn't plagiarized at all....
OK, I can see that you, jakedevon, are only getting MAD about all of this, but just remember who started all this by attacking the good character of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and bringing up polygamy, while ignoring execution of children in the Old Testament... in other words, not being intellectually fair. Trying to paint a bad picture, when there is a BIG PICTURE, and that picture is that God runs this world. He can command what He wants, WHEN He wants, and that included polygamy back then.
...and when God commands it, it is RIGHT and GOOD. That's all we need to know. We need to know that obedience to God, even when it is tough (like when an angel holds a sword commanding it), it is the right thing to do and is righteous.
That's why the people of Samuel were CHASTISED for NOT obeying the commandment in exactness:
1 Sam 15:22 Behold, to OBEY is better than sacrifice
Ha ha, EVERYtime you get called on something, you call it slander. Well, its NOT libel to call somebody out on what they have written (stop calling it slander, look it up). Its called debate, and if you keep insisting that I am "slandering" you by debating, then I will keep asking the "when did you stop beating your wife" question to draw attention to your tactic.
Mormonanswerman, I've been reading the comments you and jakedevon have posted here. You brought up the word debate. I was wondering, would you ever be up to having a real scholastic type of debate? By this I mean a debate which would have a topic, each side getting the exact amount of time to present their views, a moderator to keep the time, a question and answer period between both sides, including questions from the audience, and closing presentations. Would you ever be up to do this?
Hope you get copyright permission so I don't have to DMCA the clips that exceed the few seconds of "fair use."
I think we can make a deal. You arrange for me to have some "equal time" on the McCraney show, maybe a 10 min clip on a topic that I prepare, and he can refute it if he wants, but he has to play it in full with no sneering or Glenn Beck style video. Nothing confrontational, but with the option for me to call in after he makes a rebuttal, to counter rebuttal and discuss/debate live.
I don't live in Utah, and it would have to be electronic like that.
I don't know if SKYPE would work well enough, but a prepared video by me, a prepared rebuttal by Shawn, and a phone debate by both would be interesting. We each would have a week to look things over on both sides, no surprises, just good preparation.
When did God command polygamy? He hates sin and we all sin just because he does not strike everyone down who sins does note mean He allows it. If God were to strike everyone down at the first sin we all would be dead CHILDREN! We are born sinners and thats the sad fact. There are none good not one (including children).
So fellow sinner when would you have been struck down? When you lashed out as a baby at your mother because of your poopy diaper?
When you mention the children and get it wrong, I can see of what spirit you are. Not the spirit of Christ, for Jesus loved the little children and said they were the same as the kingdom of heaven. Perfect, sinless, and in need of no repentance.
Matt. 19: 14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
Moro 8:9 And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children.
10 Behold I say unto you teach repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.
David knew in Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."
The Bible tells us that even if an infant or child has not committed personal sin, all people, including infants and children, are guilty before God because of inherited and imputed sin.
Makes no sense. Kids can't sin, that's common sense. You need to stick to reality.
When he says in sin did my mother conceive me, why do you throw the term SIN onto the baby, rather than the mother? In the mother's SINS she conceived. Makes sense to me.
But to take that Psalm and say that it says babies are sinners, well, that's just ridiculous and nonsensical, AND untrue.
Children are born God-hating... thats why you need to teach children to do GOOD, they find all evil from themselves... Not teaching childern good - they will continue on their path - doing what they want, feeding their lust and ego.. why do you think children disobey their parents?
Psychologists agree that from the get-go - children are selfish....
I am in the fleshy state, and I confess to you that I don't do ANY of those things that Shawn is confessing he still IS. I don't lust. I don't commit adultery. I'm not a drug addict. I'm not an alcoholic. I don't commit violence on people, and don't even spank my kids.
Quote from you (can't find it on the screen)
Why do you people think that everybody does these things? Because you are doing them? Is this why you want the gospel to be easier and have no rules? I can't read that in the Bible.
On a side note, feel free to read Pslam 22:15 on spanking.
You may not commit what we would consider the biggies, but that's not the question. Have you sinned? Even the LDS interpretation of the verse says to be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. Are you perfect NOW, like Jesus commanded you to do? The verse doesn't say BECOME perfect, it says BE perfect. So, since you're BECOMING perfect, what sins are keeping you from being perfect now?
BE, BECOME, you are playing semantics. He talked to young children too, and even people not yet born who would read his words 2000 years later, and he certainly meant BECOME since that was all future tense. Stop it.
My sin is in mostly, probably, taking you guys on at the debate level, to try and get you to see your hypocrisy and double standard you ALWAYS use when talking of mormon doctrine, and yet it all applies to YOU as well because none of you accept the Old Testament much, and ignore it
First off, it's not semantics. There's a BIG difference between BE and BECOME. Second, read the verse again. It's present tense. BE perfect. Third, we Christians have no problem admitting that we're sinners, no matter how big or small the sins may be. It's still sin. It's the LDS that can't admit that they are sinners, too, because of the impossible standard the church imposes on its members. Could you walk into your ward and say that you've sinned in ANY way? I doubt it.
Semantics. I am a sinner. I have said that. I don't say I am perfect. But I do say that I am NOT the things that Shawn says he is, addict, adulterer, sex deviant, etc. etc. How can you be a disciple of this? TRY HARDER.
It was said 2000 years ago. It was future tense for all those who had not heard it yet. No one becomes perfect overnight. It is a process. A process that many christians, so called, will not own up to. They would rather have the gospel of easy, the false, vain, and foolish doctrine that eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die doctrine. That was prophesied by a prophet of Jesus Christ, that it would be a condition in these last days. He was right. I am witnessing it!
First, I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ, not Shawn McCraney. Second, the second you read the verse, it's present tense. But the difference is Christians realize that we cannot be perfect on our own accord. the Bible says that if you say you're without sin, you deceive yourself. You also assume that Christians believe in what I like to call "sleazy grace", or living-it-up kinda view, but someone who really accepts Christ will not see it that way. We live our lives in gratitude of the grace...
great way to put it... people that are not saved by grace - have not their eyes opened - so they think that saved by grace is not enough... yet we have our eyes opened by grace - and God makes us new creatures in Christ... Soli Deo Gloria!
...given to us by Jesus Christ, and that grace is not something we can earn because the finite man cannot inherit the infinite gift of grace. We acknowledge that only Jesus can fulfill what the law laid out beforehand. Remember, the Bible says that if you keep the law and stumble in ONE point, you're guilty of breaking the whole law.
"I said we were done two weeks ago, and look at me, I got sucked in to your trolling again, probably because you are so dishonest in your discussion and debate, and I think I can correct it, but then you come back again with nonsense. I really AM done now, I can't take it."
I'm being dishonest? Why? Did I imply that you have a propensity for murdering children? I don't think that I would slander anyone like that.
You ARE being dishonest. You are copying text from a comment I made on your CHANNEL and placing it here and responding to it HERE, like it is relevant here. Just so you could say it ONE MORE TIME, that I slandered you. Amazing what lengths people will go...
"You ARE being dishonest. You are copying text from a comment I made on your CHANNEL and placing it here and responding to it HERE,"
How is that being dishonest?
I see. You want to find something to say that I am supposedly dishonest about, so you claim that responding to you here instead of there is somehow dishonest.
Now, if I had implied that you have a propensity for murdering children, then you'd have something.
"Ha, ha EVERYtime you get called on something, you call it slander."
I don't consider slander or libel a laughing matter. (Although, I guess that it is funnier to the person committing the slander.)
You implied that I had a propensity to murder children. ("Answer my question about your propensity to murder children BEFORE you would ever take up that "despicable" practice known as polygamy,")
what to you think of Samuel ordering the killing of all those men, women, and innocent children of the Amalekites?
I am not sure that you have answered that. Do you have an answer? If you agree with that execution order, then can you explain WHY you do?
Would you become a person who is OBEDIENT to whatever God commands, even if it were, (gasp), polygamy? Or do you draw the line on polygamy, but killing of children is OK?
The Amalekites were very cruel people who did extraordinarily evil things. Even when they fought they wound do so unfairly. They would stab you in the back (Deuteronomy 25:17-19)
This also goes to show how polygamy has bad outcomes, since Amalek was born of a concubine out of wedlock (Genesis 36:12).
A good story is in Exodus 17:8-16 Moses was the controller there with his hands raised.
I have never ever met a man more evil than myself. Shawn McCraney, the man sitting right in front of you right now, here on the stage, is, not was, but IS a selfish alcoholic, a prescription drug addict, a rabid adulterer, a sexual deviant and a violent man."
Lots of sins of omission as I learn what the Holy Spirit would want me to do and learn to be more obedient to that. As far as sins of commission, can't think of those. I don't rob banks. I don't commit adultery. I don't lust after women. I don't abuse children. I honor my parents. I can do better on sabbath day activities, but that's a sin of omission of service not rendered. I don't watch football or go to stores on Sunday.
Striving, not perfect. Working line upon line, one step at a time.
If there were more Mormons in the world, it wouldn't be worth living in. Bunch of brain dead fools without the ability to think properly for themselves! It's the warning that every zombie movie is telling us!!!! Join the Mormons and lose your soul!!!
tattoodfreeek 4 weeks ago
You know that this guy is vacuous! Would an atheist listen to this guy and say....man, I believe in what this child of god says?
loganhistorian 3 months ago
No Shawn is doing the right thing he is telling truth I was Mormon and I'm happy got out
bobbyraejohnson 9 months ago
This attitude exists among the more weaker minded because of people like Shawn McCraney, pushing all the negatives he can and focusing on that.
mormonanswerman 10 months ago
@mormonanswerman and you're a fool
tattoodfreeek 4 weeks ago
And if everybody was catholic there would be peace it's about the truth there would not be peace without truth
bobbyraejohnson 10 months ago
Terrorism in any form is unacceptable .. I want to see LDS Inc out of business but not via hatred .. I want the work of the Holy Spirit to continue, that will get the job done. As long a Mormons can fall back on the Hatred/Persecution Card the true work of the Holy Spirit cannot continue to free them ... Give them peace and allow the truth to reach them.
hammerogod 1 year ago
things were said in the past and you have no reliable source. people made stuff up about them because they were told what they believe theyre whole life was false and that they needed to change
jonnygotz2343 1 year ago
thats the stuff evangelicals do to us. If theyre were more mormons in the world this world would be a better place
jonnygotz2343 1 year ago
i never heard you once say that was wrong what they had done. Debating is one thing but to destroy property and call someone a pagan is another
jonnygotz2343 1 year ago
John 16:1-4
These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues [today it might be from churches]; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me. But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them."
only Mormons are allowed in your temples. Christians allow any.
rudyavelino1982 2 years ago
@rudyavelino1982
You have no idea what you've done.
Another tried this same thing and met with something he never could anticipate.
I have - how shall we say-
a certain "diplomatic immunity" against such curses.
But be sure -
Your curses shall be visited upon you and yours seven-fold. What has been imagined against me shall be returned to you with the same unbridled and wicked fury that spawned it from your own soul.
You are dark and know not the wickedness of your heart.
Eel kanno taf
hybridamerica 1 year ago
Muslims are not being persecuted. (does September 11 ring a bell?) Because of their evil radicalism, they are reaping what they sow.
Jews and Christians are being persecuted Biblically. For not denying JESUS> John 15: Remember the word that I said to you... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me.
rudyavelino1982 2 years ago
If you think getting rocks thrown at is persecution, then you are misunderstanding what persecution is. look up CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION WORLDWIDE'' . The true believers of Christ are being persecuted on a Biblical bases. You Mormons don't know persecution until you see my Brothers and sisters in the middle east and Asia getting persecuted. From beatings, being burned with fire, beheaded, crushed with steam rollers. Don't accuse rock throwers as persecutors.
rudyavelino1982 2 years ago
Why are you trying to brag about Christians being persecuted anyways? Everyone in the world is persecuted. Muslims are, Jews especially are, Christians are, blacks are, whites are, asians are.....everybody is persecuted for something so why brag?
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
What I'm trying to say sean is that you need to understand your churches history and what it's based (what type of people)on and how it came about. Make your own personal judgement after finding out the facts and not what they tell you to believe. You can feel like your part of a family by joining a gang etc.. anyone can pat you on the back and give you a cookie but that doesn't make their doctrines true. The bible is the written inspired Word of God. Jesus defeated satan with it "it is written"
OrangeLight08 2 years ago
I'm sorry Exodus. My relatives are coming over. I'll talk tomorrow. I haven't been my mother's sister in two years and they parted company on REALLY bad terms. Honestly, you may think I'm jumping ship but trust me, if I could hold this off I could. I just hope this doesn't lead to a bunch of yelling from my Aunt.
Seandc100 2 years ago
*seen* my mother's sister, scuse me.
Seandc100 2 years ago
Dangit! *WOULD* not could! Typos
Seandc100 2 years ago
Before anyone jumps into that. Let me just say that if anyone wants to support a GLOBAL organization, they have to have investments and ways to make profit in order to maintain their organization and grow also. Most of the major Churches in America and around the world have investments and ways to make profit. Don't tell me that isn't true or risk inserting your foot in your mouth.
Seandc100 2 years ago
And so far in my years of being a latter day saint I have yet to see works of "pure vileness." Only works of goodness have I seen. Some people ask if we know where our tithing money goes. Yes, we do, anyone could ask without dramatically pointing their finger at us. Tithing funds are used to build, buy, and maintenance buildings. They are also used in caring for the poor and in the Church's investments. Church investments! Oh no! That sounds like some sort of profit is being made there!
Seandc100 2 years ago
If you want the truth you should go to the source, not to idiots like this. Honestly, what's wrong with people?
Seandc100 2 years ago
Shawn is awesome. He always speaks the truth about Mormonism. Can't wait to meet him in person. I have taught so many people out of Mormonism by showing them a few truths about the history, about how fake the Book of Mormon is and that Joe Smith was a pedophile is it is amazing. Glad to see so many people leave this disgusting cult..
IloveChrist2 2 years ago
LDS people, don't even bother with these kinds of people. All they have is blind dark hatred. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Listen to your feelings.
Seandc100 2 years ago
Do you know what it means when the Bible talks about their fruits? What did the LDS teach you that it means? Read Matthew 7 and you will see part of it.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit." I know what I have been taught. Do you think that posts like these bring forth goodwill and peace?
Seandc100 2 years ago
So you think Matthew 7 is talking about goodwill and peace? Sorry Sean, Jesus said that He, not any organization or religion or church, is the truth (John 14:6). And youre really going to have to give Matthew 7:15-20 another look, because it does not say what you try to make it say. Jesus was not talking about identifying Christians at all! He was warning them to beware of false prophets (verse 15), and telling them to judge whatever prophets come to them by their fruits (teachings)...
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
The fruits of false prophets? False prophecies! Apple trees bring forth apples, pear trees bring forth pears, and false prophet trees bring forth false prophecies! You can bank on it. These false prophecies can be in the form of false predictions of future events, or they can be in the form of false teachings that contradict scripture.
So you better take a good look at your so called prophets? What fruit have they produced, if any?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
We believe in latter day revelation, as I have said. Joseph Smith predicted the U.S. Civil War and gave to us from God the Word of Wisdom. BTW it was discovered in the next century after Joseph Smith that tobacco was wrong for the body, amongst other things. I am not going to list all of the prophecies that have been fulfilled and are being fulfilled as we speak. Do some research and pray with an open mind and heart.
Seandc100 2 years ago
First I said since Joseph Smith, you said you are still being guided by your prophets. I am not going to get into all Joe false prophecies unless you want me to show you. You can look it up yourself. As for research? you need to look it up, google "joseph smith's false prophecies".
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Exodus that's the differnece between Seandc100 and you, you're probably an ex-member bc you went looking for things wrong in the church and that is Satan's way of getting you to leave the Mormon religion and all others that leave it behind. It's his best tool. And people have spread rumors about Joseph Smith that are all not true, it's like telling you that the Civil War didn't happen....well do you know for sure you weren't alive 140 years ago. It's about prayer and studying my friend.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
Sounds great, study the Adam-God doctrine then, or maybe the Mountain meadow massacre?
So the Civil war was a world war? Joe said all the world would be in it? So who should study it?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
I do study it by going to my Mormon Temple. We learn much of that doctrine that you don't get the privledge of hearing. No Exodus you have it wrong read D&C 70 over again please.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
Really so please share with us what they teach in the temple that the Bible does not teach!
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
I would never tell the sacredness ordinances that go on in the temple that is very sacred to our church. If you are so interested soften your heart and join the Mormon church and they'll let you in after a year, and the truth will be open to you my friend. The temple ordinances match perfectly those temples of olden times from the Bible.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
So Jesus said salvation and spending eternity with God in Heaven is a secret? Only the chosen can know it? Where in the Bible does it say anything is not to be told? Just the fact that the LDS temples are to be only for the worthy is against God. Now if you are a Free Mason then yes they have secret rituals and then sure, in fact Joseph Smith was Free Mason so where did he get these Temple rituals? From God or from a cult?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
So where in the Bible does is say that in the temple there was to be marriage, secret hand shakes and special underwear to have on?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Look I'm done trying to bible bash with you because I'm never going to believe a word you say and you're never going to believe anything I say it's just as simple is that. I'm sure you are a good person and I appreciate your belief in Christ. I think anybody with a belief in Christ is a good person. God loves all his children even those who have done a lot of wicked. I love my religion and I find much happiness in it. Nothing would ever cause me to leave with all the love and peace I feel.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
"I think anybody with a belief in Christ is a good person" James 2:19 "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." So again are all who believe in Jesus good? Who is Jesus to you, that is the main factor and is Jesus enough?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Wow wow what are you talking about? You sound like a philosopher that is asking me the stupidest questions. Of course I believe in Christ? I'm a Mormon and a Christian I have a belief in Christ last time I saw the dictionary definition of a Christian it was the belief in Christ.
avgooftroop13 2 years ago
"You sound like a philosopher that is asking me the stupidest questions." So who Jesus is and if He is enough is a "stupid" question? I see that you are lost! If the Dictionary is going to judge you then you are ok, sorry to say it is not. God will and that is where you fall short. Where did God ever say Jesus was the created being our older brother? Where did God say He was once a man (flesh and bone) like us on another planet?
But all that is stupid right? Good luke with eternity my friend!
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Sorry for the typo "Luck" = luke. ;)
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Sorry Exodus, I have studied my scriptures as well. It may be the case that we have two different versions of the Bible. You are so right. Jesus is the truth and light of the world. But anything that he says is also the truth. That is the difference between you and me. I believe in modern day revelation. I believe that we still have prophets that guide us through the quagmire of these last days.
Seandc100 2 years ago
Really? Prophets guiding you? so then there must have been a lot of prophecied made since Joseph Smith and they must have all came true. I am not talking about them saying they are going to build a temple somewhere. So can you list some of these prophecies that guide you?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
And yes. It is obvious to anyone reading that passage and having ANY experience with their fellow man. It is talking about people and general. There are many false prophets among us. Many teachers that teach different doctrines.
Seandc100 2 years ago
You have not read Matthew 7. The scarry part for the LDS is verse 22 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful WORKS? ?(church of JESUS CHRIST, in his name)
You do not want to wait tell you are face to face to find out you were wrong.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Look at the type of people this man "gathers." People filled with hatred and darkness. That I don't learn from scripture but from observation.
Seandc100 2 years ago
dude, you're in a religion that is based on pure vileness and control measures. Vowing to have your throat slit if you give up mormon secrets. Come ON man, think for yourself. If you lived back then would you slit someone's throat because you felt like you had to to save that person from their sin? Human Sacrifice! You guys just have a watered down version to fit the laws. Stop with all this poor me boo hoo you hate me crap. Mormonism is SICK! Stop making excuses.
OrangeLight08 2 years ago
"Pure vileness?" Honestly man. Vowing to have our throats slit? Maybe you should stop ingesting the kool aid and ask a real LDS the questions. Don't ask apostate hacks. Be reasonable. Would you ask a Muslim what a Jew believed when that Muslim used to be a Jew? Or vice-verse.
We don't have "secrets" like everyone says. They are promises between us and the Lord that are sacred to us. Would you like conversations that you had with your wife in private splattered all over the web?
Seandc100 2 years ago
Funny I thought God tore the veil of the Temple from top to bottom, Opening it to all? So why can't I go into any temple right now? Did God change His mind and sew it back up?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
No, that temple was desecrated. Ours have not been. We do not use our temples to make profit and take advantage of people. Businesses do not make their way into our halls.
Seandc100 2 years ago
When was it desecrated? Jesus cleaned it. When was the Veil torn? When Jesus died on the Cross, the earth quaked, rocks were split "and the Veil in the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom" (Matthew 27:51). "From top to bottom" indicates that God tore it, because the Veil in the Temple was 25 metres high...
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Matthew 27:54 and Luke 23:47 both record that the Centurion at the crucifixion site saw the Veil tearing in two. This means that this Gentile sinner could also see straight into the Holy of Holies. This is a picture to show us that it is now possible, on the basis of faith in Jesus' death for our sins, to stand in the presence of God as justified and forgiven people (Romans 5:1-2).
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
your beloved prophet brigham young preached "blood atonement". read it, it's a fact. Mormons were murdering people for sin they considered unatonable by Christ's blood.
Sacred promises? your in a fantasy world of no wrong and right. Would you go to a theif and ask him if he's really a theif?
OrangeLight08 2 years ago
Then have someone pick apart those conversations to make out like you are a wicked person. I love my religion. I would be dead or in bad shape without it. It has brought peace into my life, a tangible peace that can be felt in my home. I have seen blessings save people's lives. Call it coincidence if you want, but my life has always gone better, and I have felt better, when following the commandments of God. I know with all of my heart that this Church is true.
Seandc100 2 years ago
Wow, Brigham Young was evil, that is the B.Y I never learned about in the LDS Church.
GraceAlone71 2 years ago
Hahahahaha look at these idiots fighting over their invisible friend.
Fucking sad but I still LOL'd
AAL 2 years ago
Jesus said:
Matt. 23: 13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
This scripture is still relevant today, as we have televangelists making disciples twofold more
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
this applies to the LDS church as well as some who call themselves christian...
The LDS church say:
You must join THIS church in order to live with God.
You must be worthy in order to live with God (because they make the members believe that Jesus´ righteousness is not enough READ ROMANS 10,3!)
You have to go to the temple in order to live with God
You have to follow the word of wisdom to go to the temple.
You must PAY TITHING in order to go the temple!
WOE UNTO LDS APOSTLES AND PROPHET!
testskriftene 2 years ago
No, we don't teach that you have to join any church to live with God. All people, no matter what they did here on earth are going to live with God. All people, will have access to God at some level. No one is cut off completely from God.
Celestial Kingdom gets Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
Terrestrial Kingdom gets Jesus Christ and Holy Ghost only
Telestial Kingdom gets Holy Ghost only.
Did you know we believe that?
I think we have the more merciful gospel plan being taught here. Its true.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
So where is Judas Iscariot?
rodwyr 2 years ago
Judge not, but there is an outer darkness where sons of perdition go. They get no contact, but its really hard to be a son of perdition. You have to try hard to be that bad that you take on God after He has revealed Himself to you. Did Judas do that? I'm thinking let God judge, He knows the heart.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Then not everyone goes to heaven, do they? If you read the Bible alone, you would find it's really EASY to go to hell, or outer darkness. Here's what you have to do to go to hell...absolutely nothing. Second, only God has the PROOF of what's in the heart, but the EVIDENCE of what's in the heart comes out for everyone to see (Mark 7:18-23, which also refutes the whole concept of the Word of Wisdom, on a side note, but that's another topic altogether).
rodwyr 2 years ago
"Then not everyone goes to heaven, do they?"
Just about. You can probably count sons of perdition on one hand. Its rare that someone is that stupid, spiritually.
As for your version of hell, and making that eternal, well there is no way that justice enters into the equation the way you guys spin/believe it. God is just. He is merciful. Justice does not punish a sinner forever and ever and ever. No, its "eternal" punishment, or "God's" punishment. Its got a time limit on it like Jesus did.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Believe me, if it were up to me, I would MUCH rather have YOUR belief in heaven and hell than mine. But, unfortunately, it's not up to me. I believe hell is eternal because the Bible says it is. Shoot, even the BoM teaches in one heaven and hell. What's more, the BoM doesn't even teach the 3 degrees of glory! In the Bible, look up Matt. 25:46, Rev. 14:9-11. Next post I will post the BoM references to heaven and hell...
rodwyr 2 years ago 2
God is love. I understand a little about love, being a parent. I love those 12 kids so much. I would be extremely sad if I made them sad, and kept them sad for time and all eternity, because I had a rule that says if they ever mess up, they will be spanked forever and ever.
Luke 11: 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
God is better than that. Hell's punishment IS finite.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
No parent or wanna-be parent (like myself) wants to make their child sad. But read Matt. 25:46 again. It says EVERLASTING punishment. From the way the Bible speaks of hell, anyone who goes there will wish that all hell was was just an eternal spanking, but it's FAR worse than that.
rodwyr 2 years ago
...BoM heaven and hell...1 Nephi 15:35, Mormon 9:23, Ether 4:18, Helaman 14:18-19; Alma 3:26, 40:26, 41:4; Mosiah 16:11, 2 Nephi 2:28-29, 9:16, 28:21-22, 3 Nephi 27:11,17
rodwyr 2 years ago
An here is the proof Mormons don't believe in the word of God as proclaimed in the bible. Everyone gets a free pass into heaven.
praestant8 2 years ago
I don't expect that we'll be in the same place. Heaven is three parts. Even Paul talked of this. Good things await, and if you disdain the temples of God, you won't be in a place where that is important. You will be happy, but damned nonetheless, if you settle on the heaven that does NOT include the presence of the Father, which is Eternal Life. Its not hell, but it is still a settlement. and it is forever.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
But if you won't be at the same place as the Heavenly father. You will be busy producing spiritual children with all your wives and be the god of your own world. That's directly contrary to what Christ said, but I digress. Both you Mormons and the Islamic men who look forward to their forty something virgins will be very surprised after your death. Then you will be crying, "why did you not make me listen?" But it will be too late.
muncastro 2 years ago
What you say is all false doctrine as far as we LDS are concerned. You guys manufacture this, and then REPEAT it. I refute it.
Nowhere does it say that I have to have more than ONE wife, and I don't want more than one wife. It may happen, but I sure don't seek it.
Nowhere does it say that I will be "my own God" and ruling "my own planet." That was made up a long time ago with the bogus godmakers movie made by someone similar to Shawn, and excommunicated adulterous man who lost all hope.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Here is what JS said from his King Follet discourse: I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know...that he was once a man like us.
Perhaps you have never paid attention to the words of Hie thee to Kolob which presents an eternal succession of gods . . .
muncastro 2 years ago
. . . in an eternal universe. The only thing that is manufactured is your cover up of Mormon doctrine, Your "refutation" is as empty and laughable as Joseph Smith's "refutation" of an eternal God. According to Jesus, there is no sex in heaven with one wife or with forty,. You need to open your eyes. Your eternal destiny is at stake.
muncastro 2 years ago
Do different levels of heaven correspond to how how well one has lived; more good works the higher the level?
This goes against the Bible itself.
2 Corinthians 12:2 Paul is writing this verse about himself, and that he is referring to his own visionary experience on the road to Damascus some years earlier (Acts 9:1-9, 22:6-11).
It was this experience that caused Paul to claim in another letter that he had seen the risen Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-10, Galatians 1:12).
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
So then when the LDS call the name God who is that? Father, Son or Holy Ghost?
The name god is who? who is the highest god? are they all one god or separate? So in the Bible it says to spend eternity with God who is it talking about?
I am sure you have twisted something to show this.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Jesus prayed to the Father. He told all to pray to the Father. That's what I do. I don't pray to Jesus, because Jesus said to pray to the Father. After this manner, He said:
"OUR FATHER..."
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Jesus is also prayed to (Acts 7:59).
rodwyr 2 years ago
technicality, he called to Jesus. He saw the Father AND the Son. The TWO beings.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Not a technicality. He saw the Father. Why didn't he say "Father, receive my Spirit"? Also, see 1 Cor. 1:2.
rodwyr 2 years ago
OK, you can rationalize this with an interpretation on what you think was going on there. But Jesus was specific. Jesus taught us HOW to pray. He said you pray to the Father. That's clear:
Matt. 6: 9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Maybe Stephen was NOT at the Sermon on the Mount, and "didn't get the memo?" Nevertheless, we KNOW what Jesus said.
I would do that.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
So, Stephen sinned when he called upon the name of Jesus? I'm not saying 'Don't pray to the Father'. I do. But, it's also Scripturally acceptable to pray to Jesus as well.
rodwyr 2 years ago
Stephen surely didn't sin, being a martyr. I named my son after him. Wonderful man.
You're right. There are times when people are going to call out to Jesus. Happened in the Book of Mormon too:
3 Nephi 19:17 And it came to pass that when they had all knelt down upon the earth, he commanded his disciples that they should pray. 18 And behold, they began to pray; and they did pray unto Jesus, calling him their Lord and their God. 22 ...and they pray unto me because I am with them.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
mormonanswerman, when I asked if you would be willing to do a moderated debate, I didn't mean with Shawn M. But I since I posed the question to you on his site, I can see how you would come to that conclusion. However you did state you would be willing to do a 10 minute video on a topic of your choosing, send it in to Shawn M., and he could comment on it. You also stated you would be willing to have a phone conversation during this event. I think that would be wonderful. However one of the...
TheJpgr1958 2 years ago
Oh, I thought all of you guys worked for him, or went to his church.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
problems I see is the topic should and must be a topic that both of you would agree on. Do you believe that's only fair?. Then there's the case of a moderator who would keep the both of you from going down rabbit trails, such as giving a personal testimony, or going off the topic, things of this nature.
I do hope something could be arranged because I believe it would be good for all to see and hear. Perhaps you could get in contact with Shawn M. and see if something could be arranged.
TheJpgr1958 2 years ago
I'm not going to contact him. I am not that anxious to do this, it wasn't my idea. If I can't even bear my testimony, then forget it. That's like saying, "don't be yourself" when he gets to bear satan's testimony of destroying the faith of others. That's one sided.
No, that doesn't work.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
mormonanswerman, I'm sorry you feel this way. Again, when I made those suggestions, such as neither one of you bearing your testimony, that's all that was, a suggestion. I don't work, nor do I personally know Shawn M. I have seen other debates, live and on youtube, with people with differing views express their points very well, and with no hostility. But both sides must agree to all the terms, whatever they might be.
Anyway, please give the issue some further thought, and one day reconsider.
TheJpgr1958 2 years ago
Actually it is your testimony that does not work. Nobody's testimony is as important as God's testimony. God's testimony (found in Isaiah 43:10) is that there were no gods formed before Him and none after him. Your testimony is that there has been from eternity a succession of gods and there will continue to be others formed and raised to godhood through eternity. Your testimony contradicts God's testimony thus your testimony is worthless . . . and even evil.
muncastro 2 years ago
With out their testimony and litany of "I know's" they have now way out against the true word of God. No Mormon would ever agree to a debate where they could get backed in to a theological corner and then start rattling off their "I know the church is true" speech. But it would be nice to see one try. Which further proves Mormonism isn't truth. Christians don't need to get teared eyed and start their "I know's," because God is on our side.
praestant8 2 years ago 2
The fact is, you don't KNOW. So you put down those that say they do, because YOU don't.
Personal revelation is by FAR superior to just reading the Bible and proclaiming it is true, without knowing. WIthout personal revelation you don't even know if the Bible is true. What good is that? Talk about a blind situation. We remove the blinders to everything when we let God speak to us in personal prayers, and let the Holy Ghost inspire and teach and witness to truth.
Its the ONLY way to KNOW.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
@mormonanswerman ugh... you're missing the point. Many Christians believe in revelation as well. And perhaps many would describe it the same way as Mormons. There is however a fundamental difference. It's not base on just "feelings/emotions" as it is for Mormons. The HG doesn't just work on feelings. If you served a mission I could give an example of how this is proven to be a problem. The HG works by also confirming preexisting truth evident through bible study.
praestant8 2 years ago
No, many christians do NOT believe in revelation.
They believe and say that its all in the Bible, and that the heavens are closed, there is no need for prophets, no need for additional scriptures, no need for any more God...
God said:
2 Ne. 29:10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men ...that they shall write the words which I speak unto them;
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
So you're going to try to tell me what I believe as a Christian after your diatribe about saying I have no authority to talk about Mormonism after being one. You sir are a hypocrite! Many Christians believe God reveals truth and direction from the Spirit. Prove to me otherwise. And since I don't believe in the BoM you quoting from it means nothing to me. Of course Joe Smith would write something in his work of fiction to defend and support itself... please!
praestant8 2 years ago
Hey Mormonanswerman....why do you hate soooo many people? I feel sorry for you.
MormonApostle 2 years ago
Well I don't hate you even though you mock the apostles! God bless you.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Wow what a confusing way to say its how I feel that I go by. So when you are going into surgury are you going to ask the doctore to just go by his feelings or are you going to make sure he KNOWS what he is doing? Maybe next time you go into the dentist you should just ask the dentist to pray and go by his feeling which tooth needs fixing or pulled.
Look up the Bereans, they were who God said had it right.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Most of the time there will be no problem with a doctor or dentist. But no, I don't pray before I go in to them, but if I got a powerful feeling from the Holy Ghost to get out, I am NOT going to ignore that. THat's where REAL trust in God comes in, something that most people will never do or know about, because they don't take the leaps of faith necessary to experience that kind of life, the truly God led, God inspired life.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Well, martyr or not, Stephen didn't sin. I will agree with you on one thing though. Stephen is a good name to emulate. But, like I said, it's Scripturally acceptable to pray to Jesus as well as the Father. While I primarily pray to the Father, I have no qualms with praying to Jesus.
rodwyr 2 years ago
But you can only go to the "highest degree" by following the Mormon Plan of Salvation, namely doing everything to go to the temple. Which you can't do unless you are a "worthy" Mormon. That I know for fact having gone to the temple numerous times.
praestant8 2 years ago
That is so true.
But it doesn't mean everyone else is going to hell. You will in fact have the presence of Jesus Christ, forever, and maybe that is what you want.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Maybe you should learn what other Christians believe.
There is no higher or lower degrees. There is no marriage in heaven. There are not going to be gods of other worlds.. People have one choice now.. No choices in the after life.. Choose Christ and live with Him through all of eternity or choose not to follow Christ and be damned. All of this baptizing for the dead is wasted time that should be spent on the living.
justcary 2 years ago 6
I happen to LIKE marriage. I happen to LIKE families. I have seen SINGLE people in this life, in fact, I have BEEN ONE a while back...
You are trying to tell me that heaven is about being SINGLE? No families? No marriage? None of that?
Guess what? I don't want your IDEA of heaven. It doesn't make ANY sense at all, except if you were talking about being DAMNED, then it does, for that's what being single is about: being damned. Don't want it.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
When you read about the Bride or God who is that? its us. You are by far not going to be single and not alone either. You will be alone in Hell though, many will be there but you will be alone. So if you do not like that idea you better make sure you are on the correct path.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
You speak of heaven, of being single, of brides of Christ as if you know a lot about it. Well, I have read the Bible too and there is no way you can come to ANY understanding from a reading of that text alone just what awaits us in the place called heaven. You just don't know.
You speak of us being a "bride" to Christ, like you know what that means. To me, it is symbolic of how he feels about us, but it is NOT literal. I am a MAN. I am not going to be Jesus' "bride" literally. You neither.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
So when you got married did you say two becoming one? is that true are you and your wife one? so you have four legs and arms two heads? hmm maybe its not literal right?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Personally I don't believe their could be a better way to live than be a bride of Christ.. As for fleshly desires they won't be a part of us any longer. And from your response I'd wonder if you truly do have a relationship with Christ.
To know Him is to love Him..
The Physical realm and the Spiritual are 2 different things. If you expect heaven to be physical and fleshy,
I'd understand your answer. Christianity doesn't believe that.. Nothing about Mormonism speaks of true Christianity.
justcary 2 years ago
You don't need to wonder and worry if I have a relationship with Christ. You need to worry only about yourself, as Jesus said judge not. And as for the physical realm, we have only to thank Jesus Christ for that gift, for ALL PEOPLE will be resurrected and will have this body of flesh and bone forever. FOREVER. If you don't understand that, you need to read MORE MATTHEW, MORE MARK, LUKE and JOHN, for there are accounts that show Jesus had a body of FLESH and BONE.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Luke's account shows some very specific things on this:
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
Jesus ATE MEAT and honeycomb, and he SAID what he was. Remember this??
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
1 cor 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
That's the problem with mormon doctrine. You've cherry picked so many verses to prop up mormonism you miss it.
OrangeLight08 2 years ago
That scripture says flesh and BLOOD. Read it carefully.
Jesus had flesh and BONE and mentions nothing of BLOOD in Luke where is speaks of Jesus resurrected and appearing to the apostles in His resurrected condition.
A perfect body of flesh and bone and no blood, for that is earthly. I agree wholeheartedly with that scripture you quoted. Completely. Do you?
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God
It says FLESH!
yeah, i believe the bible but not you or the book of mormon.
OrangeLight08 2 years ago
Sorry, but you need a lesson in logic.
The word AND means that both have to be true. If you did any computer programming like I have done, you would know that there is a major difference between the term AND and OR, and if it said flesh OR blood, you would be right, but because it says flesh AND blood, they BOTH have to be true for it to mean what YOU say.
In this case, the COMBINATION of flesh AND blood will not inherit the kingdom of God. I know that.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
So , what is it that you believe? Do you believe that God has a body like us in the state were in now? Or do you believe that Jesus has an immortal incorruptible body? The bible teaches that Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection and that in the resurrection we will receive an immortal spirit body and we'll be like Jesus, or the type of spritual form that He's in right now.
OrangeLight08 2 years ago
Well to be honest I won't debate what we will be, whether we have flesh and bones as we do now or not, I really don't see it as relevant. But when I was referring the the physical and fleshly, I was referring to the sins of the flesh. Lust will definitely not be a part of heaven. Being the bride of Christ wouldn't compare to the flesh relationship here as to a husband and wife.
Being one with Christ yes, not being one physically.
Sex won't be a part of it..
justcary 2 years ago
Funny how the Mormon scribes (apologists), pharasees (church leadership), and hypocrites (general membership) don't get it. Praise God for his truth and word! Thanks for posting these videos. It's nice to see the whole show online though.
praestant8 2 years ago
I have to go back to the original Matthew 23:13,15. If you read this it is talking about the Hypocrites and the Pharisees. When God commanded the Jews to not carry a burden on the Sabbath, the Pharisees decided that they would define burden. Just like the LDS define what the Bible says as long as it goes along with what Joseph Smith wrote. So you have to ask yourself, do you following what Jesus said or what Joesph Smith said?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Well, if I confined it only to Jesus, like you say, then I would still believe what Joseph Smith said, because you guys seem to willfully IGNORE what Jesus taught and go straight to Paul.
I would ask YOU, if you did not read anything in the Bible AFTER Matt, Mark, Luke, and John, what would YOUR gospel look like?
I think it would look like what I believe. You can't misunderstand JESUS, but apparently you guys have really twisted Paul's words beyond recognition.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
I would still be saved because they gave all that was needed to be saved. They were the few first hand witnesses of Jesus and that is what is required to be an apostle, when did your apostles walk with Jesus? I guess your gods don't think that was important.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
They are not MY apostles. But the Holy Ghost has confirmed to me that they DO walk and talk with Jesus Christ, of that I know now. They may not say it directly because of the command by Christ to NOT cast your pearls before swine (it still applies), but I can say it. I don't care if you "turn and rend me" at all.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
It has nothing to do with casting pearls before swine. The real apsostles of Chirst's time let nothing stand in their way from professing they saw christ. The "apostles" of Mormonism can do no such thing! The most they can say is they believe or have faith in Christ. One cannot be walking with Christ when they only use the Bible "as far as it is translated correctly" as justification in attempts to authenticate the Bom.
praestant8 2 years ago
I'm glad Bringham Young called his followers "the greatest and smoothest liars in the world".
Glorthac 2 years ago
The apostle Paul said that he was the the chief of sinners (1 Tim 1:15).
Now Shawn is being persecuted for following Paul's example.
jakedevon 2 years ago
Paul WOULD say that. He participated in the killing of innocent Christians. He is going to toe the line from that time forth that he became a Christian.
The Book of Mormon has an account of Alma who had a similar experience, and he too became a flawless servant of the Lord. Very humble though, because they know there is nothing to be arrogant about when you have been struck down by the Lord while in the path of sin. Those guys were exceptions, but they were NOT the worst of sinners ANYMORE.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"...and he to became a flawless servant of the Lord."
"Flawless?"
Paul never claimed to be flawless. He said that sin warred in him (Romans 7:23,24). "O wretched man that I am!" Not 'O wretched man that I was.'
So, which are you? (Luke 18) Are you the publican who confesses his sins, or are you the pharisee who tries to tell the Lord how good he is.
Me? I'm worse than Shawn.
jakedevon 2 years ago
Not only that, Paul also said that the things he said he SHOULD do, he didn't, and the things he SHOULDN'T do he did anyway. Something for further posterity to your point.
rodwyr 2 years ago
"Not only that, Paul also said that the things he said he SHOULD do, he didn't and the things he SHOULDN'T do he did anyway."
That is a really good point.
Let us see how mormons respond.
jakedevon 2 years ago
@mormonanswerman - "The Book of Mormon has an account of Alma who had a similar experience, and he too became a flawless servant of the Lord." First of all no one is perfect. Second how convenient that there should be a story in the BOM just like something in the Bible. No, the BOM wasn't plagiarized at all....
praestant8 2 years ago
OK, I can see that you, jakedevon, are only getting MAD about all of this, but just remember who started all this by attacking the good character of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and bringing up polygamy, while ignoring execution of children in the Old Testament... in other words, not being intellectually fair. Trying to paint a bad picture, when there is a BIG PICTURE, and that picture is that God runs this world. He can command what He wants, WHEN He wants, and that included polygamy back then.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
...and when God commands it, it is RIGHT and GOOD. That's all we need to know. We need to know that obedience to God, even when it is tough (like when an angel holds a sword commanding it), it is the right thing to do and is righteous.
That's why the people of Samuel were CHASTISED for NOT obeying the commandment in exactness:
1 Sam 15:22 Behold, to OBEY is better than sacrifice
Read this passage. You will be blown away.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"...in other words, not being intellectually fair."
So you think that it is fair to slander me for asking questions about polygamy?
What other mormon doctrines will you slander me if I ask about them?
jakedevon 2 years ago
Ha ha, EVERYtime you get called on something, you call it slander. Well, its NOT libel to call somebody out on what they have written (stop calling it slander, look it up). Its called debate, and if you keep insisting that I am "slandering" you by debating, then I will keep asking the "when did you stop beating your wife" question to draw attention to your tactic.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"Ha ha, EVERYtime you get called on something, you call it slander."
You asked me-have I quit beating my wife.
Now you are saying that you have called me on it.
I don't, and never have, beat on women.
Why do you insist that I have?
jakedevon 2 years ago
"Its called debate,"
You seem to be saying that you believe that slander or libel is a perfectly fine debate tactic for you to use.
jakedevon 2 years ago
Mormonanswerman, I've been reading the comments you and jakedevon have posted here. You brought up the word debate. I was wondering, would you ever be up to having a real scholastic type of debate? By this I mean a debate which would have a topic, each side getting the exact amount of time to present their views, a moderator to keep the time, a question and answer period between both sides, including questions from the audience, and closing presentations. Would you ever be up to do this?
TheJpgr1958 2 years ago
that would be great! It would have to be videotaped....
I have all videos made by mormonanswerman - I downloaded them - and some day - I´l probably add bibleverses to his clips to refute him...
testskriftene 2 years ago
Hope you get copyright permission so I don't have to DMCA the clips that exceed the few seconds of "fair use."
I think we can make a deal. You arrange for me to have some "equal time" on the McCraney show, maybe a 10 min clip on a topic that I prepare, and he can refute it if he wants, but he has to play it in full with no sneering or Glenn Beck style video. Nothing confrontational, but with the option for me to call in after he makes a rebuttal, to counter rebuttal and discuss/debate live.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
I don't live in Utah, and it would have to be electronic like that.
I don't know if SKYPE would work well enough, but a prepared video by me, a prepared rebuttal by Shawn, and a phone debate by both would be interesting. We each would have a week to look things over on both sides, no surprises, just good preparation.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
A debate with who?
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
When did God command polygamy? He hates sin and we all sin just because he does not strike everyone down who sins does note mean He allows it. If God were to strike everyone down at the first sin we all would be dead CHILDREN! We are born sinners and thats the sad fact. There are none good not one (including children).
So fellow sinner when would you have been struck down? When you lashed out as a baby at your mother because of your poopy diaper?
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
When you mention the children and get it wrong, I can see of what spirit you are. Not the spirit of Christ, for Jesus loved the little children and said they were the same as the kingdom of heaven. Perfect, sinless, and in need of no repentance.
Matt. 19: 14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Moro 8:9 And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children.
10 Behold I say unto you teach repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
This goes to show how Joseph Smith had no clue.
David knew in Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."
The Bible tells us that even if an infant or child has not committed personal sin, all people, including infants and children, are guilty before God because of inherited and imputed sin.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
Makes no sense. Kids can't sin, that's common sense. You need to stick to reality.
When he says in sin did my mother conceive me, why do you throw the term SIN onto the baby, rather than the mother? In the mother's SINS she conceived. Makes sense to me.
But to take that Psalm and say that it says babies are sinners, well, that's just ridiculous and nonsensical, AND untrue.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
Children are born God-hating... thats why you need to teach children to do GOOD, they find all evil from themselves... Not teaching childern good - they will continue on their path - doing what they want, feeding their lust and ego.. why do you think children disobey their parents?
Psychologists agree that from the get-go - children are selfish....
testskriftene 2 years ago
"Ok, I can see that you, jakedevon, are only getting MAD about all of this, but just remember who started all this by attacking..."
Even if that were true, are you really using this to say that it is okay for you to slander me and for you trying to tell me what to do?
jakedevon 2 years ago
like I said, a TYRANNY of tolerance here.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"like I said, a TYRANNY of tolerance here."
Tyrants like to dictate.
Do you know anybody on this thread that wants to dictate to people?
jakedevon 2 years ago
"When did you stop beating your wife?"
I can't believe that you asked me that.
It is commonly known that the question implies that the person has beaten his wife.
So, it is not enough for you to imply that I have a propensity for murdering children. Now you have doubled down your slander.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"again, are you dictating to me what you will and won't do?"
Why would you ask that question? What kind of person are you?
Why are you so focused on who is in control of me? I decide what I will and won't talk about. NOT YOU.
jakedevon 2 years ago
I am in the fleshy state, and I confess to you that I don't do ANY of those things that Shawn is confessing he still IS. I don't lust. I don't commit adultery. I'm not a drug addict. I'm not an alcoholic. I don't commit violence on people, and don't even spank my kids.
Quote from you (can't find it on the screen)
Why do you people think that everybody does these things? Because you are doing them? Is this why you want the gospel to be easier and have no rules? I can't read that in the Bible.
rodwyr 2 years ago
On a side note, feel free to read Pslam 22:15 on spanking.
You may not commit what we would consider the biggies, but that's not the question. Have you sinned? Even the LDS interpretation of the verse says to be ye perfect, as your Father in heaven is perfect. Are you perfect NOW, like Jesus commanded you to do? The verse doesn't say BECOME perfect, it says BE perfect. So, since you're BECOMING perfect, what sins are keeping you from being perfect now?
rodwyr 2 years ago
BE, BECOME, you are playing semantics. He talked to young children too, and even people not yet born who would read his words 2000 years later, and he certainly meant BECOME since that was all future tense. Stop it.
My sin is in mostly, probably, taking you guys on at the debate level, to try and get you to see your hypocrisy and double standard you ALWAYS use when talking of mormon doctrine, and yet it all applies to YOU as well because none of you accept the Old Testament much, and ignore it
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
First off, it's not semantics. There's a BIG difference between BE and BECOME. Second, read the verse again. It's present tense. BE perfect. Third, we Christians have no problem admitting that we're sinners, no matter how big or small the sins may be. It's still sin. It's the LDS that can't admit that they are sinners, too, because of the impossible standard the church imposes on its members. Could you walk into your ward and say that you've sinned in ANY way? I doubt it.
rodwyr 2 years ago
Semantics. I am a sinner. I have said that. I don't say I am perfect. But I do say that I am NOT the things that Shawn says he is, addict, adulterer, sex deviant, etc. etc. How can you be a disciple of this? TRY HARDER.
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
It was said 2000 years ago. It was future tense for all those who had not heard it yet. No one becomes perfect overnight. It is a process. A process that many christians, so called, will not own up to. They would rather have the gospel of easy, the false, vain, and foolish doctrine that eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die doctrine. That was prophesied by a prophet of Jesus Christ, that it would be a condition in these last days. He was right. I am witnessing it!
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
First, I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ, not Shawn McCraney. Second, the second you read the verse, it's present tense. But the difference is Christians realize that we cannot be perfect on our own accord. the Bible says that if you say you're without sin, you deceive yourself. You also assume that Christians believe in what I like to call "sleazy grace", or living-it-up kinda view, but someone who really accepts Christ will not see it that way. We live our lives in gratitude of the grace...
rodwyr 2 years ago
great way to put it... people that are not saved by grace - have not their eyes opened - so they think that saved by grace is not enough... yet we have our eyes opened by grace - and God makes us new creatures in Christ... Soli Deo Gloria!
testskriftene 2 years ago
...given to us by Jesus Christ, and that grace is not something we can earn because the finite man cannot inherit the infinite gift of grace. We acknowledge that only Jesus can fulfill what the law laid out beforehand. Remember, the Bible says that if you keep the law and stumble in ONE point, you're guilty of breaking the whole law.
rodwyr 2 years ago
"I said we were done two weeks ago, and look at me, I got sucked in to your trolling again, probably because you are so dishonest in your discussion and debate, and I think I can correct it, but then you come back again with nonsense. I really AM done now, I can't take it."
I'm being dishonest? Why? Did I imply that you have a propensity for murdering children? I don't think that I would slander anyone like that.
jakedevon 2 years ago
You ARE being dishonest. You are copying text from a comment I made on your CHANNEL and placing it here and responding to it HERE, like it is relevant here. Just so you could say it ONE MORE TIME, that I slandered you. Amazing what lengths people will go...
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
"You ARE being dishonest. You are copying text from a comment I made on your CHANNEL and placing it here and responding to it HERE,"
How is that being dishonest?
I see. You want to find something to say that I am supposedly dishonest about, so you claim that responding to you here instead of there is somehow dishonest.
Now, if I had implied that you have a propensity for murdering children, then you'd have something.
Nice try.
jakedevon 2 years ago
"Ha, ha EVERYtime you get called on something, you call it slander."
I don't consider slander or libel a laughing matter. (Although, I guess that it is funnier to the person committing the slander.)
You implied that I had a propensity to murder children. ("Answer my question about your propensity to murder children BEFORE you would ever take up that "despicable" practice known as polygamy,")
And you imply that I beat my wife.
And you laugh about it.
jakedevon 2 years ago
jakedevon,
what to you think of Samuel ordering the killing of all those men, women, and innocent children of the Amalekites?
I am not sure that you have answered that. Do you have an answer? If you agree with that execution order, then can you explain WHY you do?
Would you become a person who is OBEDIENT to whatever God commands, even if it were, (gasp), polygamy? Or do you draw the line on polygamy, but killing of children is OK?
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
The Amalekites were very cruel people who did extraordinarily evil things. Even when they fought they wound do so unfairly. They would stab you in the back (Deuteronomy 25:17-19)
This also goes to show how polygamy has bad outcomes, since Amalek was born of a concubine out of wedlock (Genesis 36:12).
A good story is in Exodus 17:8-16 Moses was the controller there with his hands raised.
The final end came in 1 Samuel 15.
Exodus314IAM 2 years ago
'Hey, I answered your question. Now, you answer mine like you said that you would.'
'No. I already answered your question on another video.'
'What? That wasn't the deal.'
'I'm altering the deal. But I do understand that you did your part.'
jakedevon 2 years ago
Shawn McCraney said on his 11/03/2009 show:
"I want to say some that will bother you greatly.
I have never ever met a man more evil than myself. Shawn McCraney, the man sitting right in front of you right now, here on the stage, is, not was, but IS a selfish alcoholic, a prescription drug addict, a rabid adulterer, a sexual deviant and a violent man."
You all align with this??
mormonanswerman 2 years ago
What are your sins, Grant?
rodwyr 2 years ago
Lots of sins of omission as I learn what the Holy Spirit would want me to do and learn to be more obedient to that. As far as sins of commission, can't think of those. I don't rob banks. I don't commit adultery. I don't lust after women. I don't abuse children. I honor my parents. I can do better on sabbath day activities, but that's a sin of omission of service not rendered. I don't watch football or go to stores on Sunday.
Striving, not perfect. Working line upon line, one step at a time.
mormonanswerman