ugh, how can he say there is no infinte regression when trying to logically deduce the existence of God ultimately resorts to a regression??? The problem with the theistic view is its initial assumption that GOD already exists. Its nearly impossible to argue against that stance, and really shouldnt be the atheists attempt in the first place, the burden of proof has always been those who say religion is true, or that god's existence is true, let alone infinite and good.
What the hell is going on when Hitchens asks those questions at 2:25? He asks those questions and the religious guy looks like he is talking still, but there is no sound. Then Hitchens is talking a bit and it's cut out too. Is this dubbed that way, or what? I can't imagine BOTH of them are whispering to themselves. The religious guy looks like he is mouthing EXACTLY what Hitch says while he says it. It's fucked up 0_o
@Reip187 The sound is about 15 seconds faster than the visual. It seems the gap has increased in each video. It's not dubbed, but it is really annoying.
Hitchens' "I'll answer that question in reverse order" is an absolutely genius way to completely destroy leading questions and I'm definitely going to steal it when I'm dealing with them.
Why does the the Blond one keep referring to Paul? He never met Christ. He constructed his views from hearsay, not reality. HIs views are not Christian they are Pauline.
@Benno1515 I hope so too. If the American Psychiatric Association were not so scared about being politically incorrect, it probably would classify at least aspects of religious belief as mental disorder. After all, believing that one is hearing voices, believing in an invisible presence, an inflated sense of self-worth because of unimportant or unverifiable considerations, etc, are all symptoms of mental disorder.
@HectorYLaComay Right, and yet you call rejecting the idea that we should accept the existence of something which shows no sign of existence "simplistic". I'm asking for an explanation of why you think that it is simplistic to reject the proposition that something that exists when there is no evidence for it.
@HectorYLaComay Why would "exist" not apply to God? Either God is or isn't. Either He exists or doesn't. I'll admit that I have some fondness for the way that Jews seem more interested in study of religion than Christians are, but where do you get off claiming that not believing that God can simultaneously exist and not exist (or maybe neither exists nor doesn't exist, if that's somehow different to you) is "simplistic"?
@cygnusx555 thumbs up for the validity of the statement, slight downgrade for poor grammar (He is AN ignorant prick, rather than A ignorant prick). Still, your point stands.
@HectorYLaComay I really enjoy how theists have started throwing such terms, which so obviously apply and have been applied to themselves, at atheists. I find it confirming.
Anyway, you are obviously ignorant of scientific history on the most basic level and have failed to understand the concept of scientific method to begin with. Seriously, you fail to realize that scientists have been unable to explain certaing things in the past? You do not seem to understand what you are ojecting to.
@HectorYLaComay - my atheism is new. After spending the bulk of my life so far having "absolute faith" in the teachings of my christian upbringing, I have spent the last 9 months researching - with as open a mind as possible - both sides of the story. I have not found anything to convince me that there is a god. I really am an incarnation of "ignorance is bliss" because now "god did it" doesn't work - I'm so aware of how little i know about anything, and how much i have to learn. Its bliss!
I guess life is like a tree (the tree of life?). Our roots start in this earth (our 3D world). But, as we "grow" (the trunk part), we eventually reach a bifurcation point were we must choose which branch to follow (quantum de-coherence?). All branches are real, and exist simultaneously as higher order universes, in parallel realities. Heaven, hell, and all in between possibilities are just as real, but it's up to us to choose (with our actions & aptitudes) which one will become our own reality.
If the evidence for evolution were Conclusive in that ALL scientists are forced to agree in so much as they do regarding ELECTRICITY POWERING YOUR HOME AND VERY WELL NEEDED FOR OUR WAY OF LIFE NOW, Of which NO ONE would even debate that, Then you would have proven Evolution. But as of now, Since some scientists(very renowned scientists I might add) Disagree with Evolution, I would say that PROOF is something of the future either way. It is a battle of REASON. NOT FACTS though some facts r spoken
I do feel pretty bad for Hitchens though after learning that he has Cancer. I respecfully offer my condolences and will pray that God spare him, Save him, and have him announce that he has met God finally before he dies. But that of course will do nothing for his followers which will just declare that he was in a state of dimentia when he finally says it if God is so gracious as to answer my prayer and others prayers who know the right thing is to pray for hitchens salvation.
"there is not a theologian who would define miracles as the suspension or violation of physical laws"
even if thats true, its quite a problem isnt it. imagine any apologist interrupting a church sermon "excuse me, i just wanted to clarify- no christians should think that jesus performed miracles" why do these people always defend versions of religions that no significant amount of religious people hold? why cant they defend christianity
@zech48 There is a major problem with debating from people of Faith as a whole. Even in Christianity there are disputes and quarrels from people who do not want to just speak what they know to be true but speak what they heard that has been passed from generation to generation. And in an attempt by some (Who I personally think are lazy)So called Christains to be agreeable on some subjects they have not studied themselves but hear many call fact, Those folks debating is for them. NOT for God.
@abeeftec i grew up in a christian social monopoly, went to 3 private christian schools, a plethora of churches, my father was a pastor and we started 2 church plants in my time, and we moved through about 7 towns over all this. i asked a friend recently and she affirmed my experience- it was never ever ever even mentioned that anybody doubts literal inerrant young earth scripture. the idea just doesnt exist in connecticut. i actually had to explain it to my friend in order to ask!
@zech48 I think pastors kids and those raised in the ministry have it worse then someone who comes in the church later in life. Those kids normally believe they are saved because they have been in the chuch forever. And unfortunatly the people who they go to chuch with dont ever explain true salvation to them because they dont know what it is. They are so close to the truth but leave just enough of it out to make it a lie. It can only be described as Satans best kept secret.
@abeeftec i have to disagree from experience. i never saw even suggestions of disagreements on doctrine in my first 18 years of life, which was pretty much a tour of massachusets-connecticut christianity. it was a take it or leave it package.
Hitchens proves he does not understand the Bibles message when he says that Jesus said, " I did not come to bring peace but a Sword." and then he claims that people say he didnt come to preach war! Jesus statement about bringing a sword had to do with What a Sword does! It divides flesh from bone in the same way that he came to divide FLESH from SPIRIT! Which has NOTHING to do with WAR Literally but War inside you!! Hitchens argues from his ignorance of Bibilical Theology.
@abeeftec Fantastic a christian accusing another of biblical ignorance. Did you know that in the original Greek and Latin versions of the Bible Jesus claims that he is NOT I repeat NOT the Christ. And Jesus goes on to warn that anyone claiming that Jesus is the Christ is a liar. Paul goes on to call these people fools and corrupters of the glory of God.
@Plagueis1017 You obviously are another person who will speak things you do not know of. And also a person who cannot show the source of his evidence. Just saying that does not make it so. Y0u are Definately one of those people who did not study this for youself but believe another and call it fact. NIV 1 john 4:2.This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. NOW tell me that is mis translated.
And when you respond please do it at the end of the thought. Not in the middle so what i said was all broken up so that people can understand a bit more then a 500 word limitation. This 1. is not the place for this and 2. If you really think that a Christian cannot Know more about the bible he reads daily and studies his WHOLE LIFE, just because a few claim that and do not, then you friend are the foolish one. Dont lump me with those you have argued with in the past. I am NOT them.
@abeeftec I'd have to see what the original Greek text says. There are so many things that make it clear that the English King James Bible is a joke. How about the fact that the name Jesus does not appear once not once in the 1611 edition of the King James Bible. How about the fact that the letter J didn't exist during the proclaimed life of Jesus. How about the fact that there were numerous Biblical texts that were edited out of the bible. What about the fact that before the counsel of Nisea...
@Plagueis1017 The points you bring up do not change the validity of the theme nor its accuracy. You are speaking of a translation instead of someone who would study Original language and not only that But Isogogics and proper exegesis is essential. Not many of the so called Christains you are against Do that. And unfortunately neither do Atheists. But even if Atheists did you have a fundamental problem with their Version.. It is steeped in the desire to maintain SELF which will always err.
@abeeftec Christians couldn't even agree on whether or not Jesus (or whatever his real name was) was the son of God. You accuse me of only believing what I hear and show no evidence, when it is clear that is exactly what you are guilty of. You only take to heart the parts of the Bible that affirm your beliefs and ignore whatever you have to in order to maintain your delusional world view. Check out the channel ForBibleTruth he'll show you your evidence.
@Plagueis1017 It is NOT clear that is what I do because you have heard NOT A SINGLE one of my arguements. You only hear the same ones you always here. It is NOT delusional and it is not going to go away. Bet on it. He cannot show EVIDENCE that God does not exist and he says that himself. Stop putting words in his mouth. What he shows is HIS REASON.. Not Factual Evidence. And you say IM the one mixing up fact with opinion and faith? Get real!!! You are the one that is delusional
@abeeftec I never said anything about the existence of God I am talking about the Bible. And yes that is precisely what you do you cannot be a Christian without being guilty of accepting things you are told solely on faith. Actually I have heard your arguments but what did you expect that I was just going to through my arms up in concession? You have thus far ignored every single point I made to show the inconsistencies in different versions of the Bible and attempts to edit and omit these ...
@Plagueis1017 I just caught this, I have not ignored a thing you said. IN fact, You have ignored everything I have said except to either insult me or bring some point you think is valid in relation to what you think. YES there are reports that certain things are not accurate in the Bible. But in every case the author such claims had motive to make the claims. Find me ONE shred of proof that the bible is inaccurate from a source that does not have direct motive to say its off!! You cannot do it
@abeeftec inconsistencies by men. Men who were clearly motivated by power and money. How can you seriously call anyone else delusional when you believe such physically impossible things happened like Jesus being resurrected, a virgin birth, an all powerful man living in the clouds. These claims borderline insanity. And yes I did insult you because I get very riled up when someone makes a ridiculous claim like "Its a relationship not a religion." I mean really? Really? Come one!
@Plagueis1017 Because I believe there is a God and I believe that if there would be a so called CHANCE of a reason for Us to be here that takes more faith to believe then God Said! And called everything into being. So when you think back about the fact that NOTHING can be set in motion unless an outside for start that motion.. and you think IT STARTED ON ITS OWN? That takes a WHOLE lot of Faith even from a scientific standpoint. It lacks reason or logic to think that way.
@abeeftec An you have not heard a single one of my arguements for why God exists.. Everything I have argued so far has been WHY you cannot Standardize religion to say there is no God because if any are correct it could be only one of them since they all disagree. And even in the Christains faith the same way. The fact is that if I took opposing scientists and argued from each of their hypothesis on something not yet poven to someone then I can make science look foolish to someone who dont know.
You cannot say you have heard me argue something I have not argued. And if you think that I have then your sorrily mistaken. I may have hinted a few things but never have I given arguements for Gods Existance that are Scientific. I just hinted at one rational thought above but that is all. Because I do think it is MUCH easier for a man who wants to continue to live as he does to say,"Well science cant answer that yet." Because the Alternative to THERE IS NO ANSWER is GOD SAID.
And to that Question I will take you back to every single time because it takes less faith using sound reason to believe, even while using Scientific thinking, That Something cannot come from nothing. So there MUST be an outside force. Now what that outside force is Science is not willing to say what it is. Speculate sure but they cannot come to a solid conclusion and I just love how Science catagorizes things to make something fact that never was fact on THIS SUBJECT ONLY. But doesnt on others
But there is not enough room to speak here because the fact is that every 500 characters gets broken up and no real thought continues. So we could be argueing with half statements which personally I do not like to do.
We can agree to disagree but the fact is that I am a pretty sane person who is respected as someone people would talk to to get sound council on many issues. Very unbiased and rational. Yet to an athiest, because I am a threat to their thinking, I am insulted many times.
@abeeftec So you can make science look foolish by arguing in favor of a Man with magic powers living in the sky and his son who was born of a virgin and died and came back to life? Really? Do you not see the hilarity of that statement? Give me a break jeez. And so again you are essential stating that because we cannot fully explain the Universe and its origins and blah blah blah that it makes believing in God the logical decision with your whole ...
@Plagueis1017 What I find to be hilarious is that you read one statement from me and think that is the basis of my faith. That to me is HILARIOUS. That you literally think that there is enough room in a few 500 character statements to address the issue. I made one partial thought on the subject and you again come with the canned answers regarding something else. When you say MAN WITH MAGIC POWERS YOU make it ridiculous because the Bible NEVER said that. Yes I do see Hilarity that you think that
@Plagueis1017 and you know, You may get angry when someone says Its a relationship not a religion.. But I get a little freaken tired as well hearing you people say MAN WITH MAGIC POWERS... HE IS NOT A MAN, HE DOES NOT HAVE MAGIC POWERS!!! He is God almighty and he is so slow to wrath you get to say such things without being magically vanished from earth never to be seen again. YOU get to deny him. YES what a tyrant he is!!! You get the desires of your heart!!! BECAUSE HES SOOOO OPPRESSIVE
@abeeftec You wonder so much why he allows bad things to happen to good people.. And you ACTUALLY think man is GOOD!!! You are deluded friend. YOU are deluded. There is NO ONE GOOD!! No one who does righteous!! You know what that means?? Thats right, Not that you can LOOK to be doing something noble for someone. But that you would only do something that appears noble if there is some gain in it for you. And that is a fact. Like it or lump it.
Now tell me that you can do something for someone else without them ever knowing it and you never taking credit a day in your life. And I will say your a blatant liar to try to prove your point. I KNOW you cannot do it. I am certain the Bible is ABSOLUTLY correct when it says what it says about the heart of man. And that you cannot deny.
Well you can deny it to me... .But you know in your own heart you cannot. You would have to take credit for doing something like that in some way. You cannot let something like that go untold about yourself. Because YOU NEED acceptance, justification that your a good guy. You NEED those things in your life to feel sound. And you know its true. No matter how you answer it. You know its true.
@abeeftec "..about the fact that NOTHING can be set in motion unless an outside for start that motion.. and you think IT STARTED ON ITS OWN? That takes a WHOLE lot of Faith even from a scientific standpoint. It lacks reason or logic to think that way." statement. Do you want to know what to right answer to the question "Where did the universe come from?" Here I'll fill you in, the answer is WE DON'T KNOW. Simply because religion can explain it does not in the least make it the right answer...
@Plagueis1017 There you go again,,, The fact that you DONT KNOW does not mean that you cannot propose LOGIC and RATIONALE to your own Laws. And this is the problem I have with you. That you think that " I DONT KNOW" Equates to There is no God is laughable. You go against your own laws. OR your just not able to think that deep. The fact that there is SOMETHING MOVING means there was a time when there was NOTHING moving. And the fact that the something started moving means SOMETHING made it move.
So if SOMETHING made it move then we MUST conclude there is something that started things in motion.. That much we agree on. You se also in the same arguement the fact that all things come from something means there was a time when there was NOTHING. So conclusion(of course this is the short version)...At one point there was NOTHING MATERIAL. Now, WHERE did the Material come from?? one thing you choose not to answer rationally is this question. Because NOTHING cannot cause SOMETHING RIGHT?
So then you have to conclude that something made the material come into being. Nothing in material but SOMETHING Immaterial! You cannot deny those two facts. Because THEY ARE RATIONAL and LOGICAL. If you disagree then we have a problem because you would be saying something always existed in the material. And that is simply not possible based on your own scientific laws. Now I am willing to say that God made those laws you look to so he can in fact change them.
But you say he cannot change them because he doesnt exist. And then I say you have a problem then because you are contradicting the laws you rely on. We also know that something that is set in motion must have an outside force to stop it from moving or it will keep moving. its not a what came first the chicken or the egg claim. Because we know that the chicken came first or else it could not lay an egg. BECAUSE AN EGG CANNOT MOVE ITSELF!! But a Chicken can move itself.
But that Poses another question... Can it EXIST in and of itself??? NOPE. it needs what is necessary to support it. And this is where you just say WE HAVENT GOTTEN THAT FAR YET.. and I say... YOU NEVER WILL!!
It is NOT possible for you to get any further then you already are on the Question of Existance. You think that chicken could have sustained its own life or grew from nothing or just came into being by chance in a CESS POOL? How did it grow? How did it not die off? How did it reproduce?
And the most laughable thing I have ever heard from science (which as i said before science in and of itself is not laughable but this is) that a One celled organism that can only reproduce itself can over millions of years grow sex organs and reproduce a different way.. THAT IS LUDACRIS!! It would have died off long before it grew a brain enough to know. Do you know how many atheists i have heard say this happened over millions of years and believe that is possible???
It only takes me a moment to know that what Science thinks about evolution based on mutation regarding HUMANS over millions of years is not possible through any of the three types. THE QUASI MAN(OR man before the Habilis) OR man while still in the SO CALLED Superfamily. That which SUPPOSED he was in between Man and a One celled Organism could NEVER have made it to Hominoidea. NO WAY it could have survived to evolve any futher!! IT would have died off!!!! Think about it!!
See but you will seperate ORIGINS from Evolution so you can call Human evolution FACT when there is NO WAY you can ever convince me that EVOLUTION is true if Man came from SO CALLED One celled organisms. So if you try to refute that and say that you no longer believe that. Let me ask you then, WHATEVER form man was in before NOW or at his beginning.. HOW did that MAN GET HERE?? OH I know what you will say... WE DONT KNOW.. Well I believe we can rationally reject Human evolution in that sense.
There is not enough room here to get into this but if you would like to hear my point of view Set me up with a debate between me and hitchens and I believe my words would make more sense then typing here. Or if you care for yourself... CALL ME. I will give you my number, speak my veiw and hang up. NO more talking because I do beleive that I can show you where EVOLUTION is not a rational answer. It is still not fact either. Mutation.. YES. Human Evolution? NO
@abeeftec Just how its foolish to create a story of an all powerful being and all sorts of events that defy physics? So you use physics to propose that there is a being that defies physics? You know what your right the bible doesnt literally say God has magic powers but it does say things like he is omnipotent. So So what Im doing is using a rather crude method to say the same thing.
@abeeftec... Just how the ancient Greeks were wrong to think that Monsters and Titans and so forth were the causes of natural occurrences in the world around them. Your point that because the science we have cannot explain it it must be explained by God is just silly man. But for the sake of argument lets say you're right. We must conclude that there is a creator of all existence (there is a God). Who's God is it? Is it Allah, Yahweh, Buddha,? There are numerous variables that plug holes into ..
@Plagueis1017 This is not what you establish first. You do not establish WHICH is right first to argue whether there is one. First you must admit the possibility that there is one. God is not Mocked. Humans make the mistake always of thinking they can mock God. He doesnt need you to beleive he exists. And that is a good question though and the answer lay in the very light of the basic questions people ask always. Christianity as a mainstream religion is even wrong. You Can know for sure.
@abeeftec your ideology. Not to mention things like variations in each different religion. For example the 30 some thousand different denominations of christiany. So of those different variations how can you claim that yours is the only correct ideology. How can you even claim that any of the ideologies on earth are right?
@Plagueis1017 That is not part of the arguement.. Stop moving all over the place.. You will confuse yourself before you get started. Stay on one topic.
@abeeftec Now you make the same argument that because we cannot explain everything perfectly with the science and knowledge we have then it is only logical to believe in God.Well by that logic we should all believe in monsters and titans of ancient greece since they explain the world around us perfectly. Do you see the point Im trying to make here? Do you see the flaws in that logic? Given enough time we will likely be able to explain the things we can't explain now.
@Plagueis1017 NO that is NOT the arguement I made. You added that part because it is typical for you to think that someone said that. I Cannot change your thinking no more then you can change mine. The fact is that all we can do is listen and add to what we think we know already. I am saying that Science does not speculate and because there is no solid rational reason that does not DISPROVE God.That is what I am saying. See you keep lumping me in with everyone else. Thinking I use the same logic
@abeeftec That is exactly what your point boils down to that because we cannot explain everything with science we must explain it with God. See I'm reading between the lines here and reducing your point to its simplest form. Which this is the arguments simplest form: "Science has flaws therefore it is only logical to believe in a creator which explains numerous things science can't explain." Give it time I'm confident science will reach a point where it refutes religion entirely.
@Plagueis1017 Dont think you can reduce my point. because I think personally you read until a thought pops into your head and then comment. I NEVER said Science has flaws therefore there MUST be a God. That is Absolute Nonsense. Oh your Confident? WOW you have already judged it when I reduce your reasoning down to its simplest form. Look, Wack jobs go in the bible with a THOUGHT and prove their tought to be true all the time. AND THATS HOW SCIENCE WORKS YOU SAY?? You dont even know what u say
I never even put science and God together. But when people of science think that science is a reason to prove God didnt create the universe I laugh. Because you know how he did it does not mean he did not do it. I resent the fact that you read into anything but if that is how you do science then I can see how you havent figured things out. You must be spending too much time thinking. Ever heard of an Inductive studY? as i said, Wack jobs think things and set out to prove them all the time.
And you are saying that is what Science does? I think they take a subject and look into it. A thought doesnt pop into their head and they set out to prove its true. That is basically moronic to think that is what science does. Science takes a subject and takes what they know to be true no matter how small the point and builds. What YOU do with God is Concretely deny and then set out to prove. Bad MOVE. Because you will NEVER think differently.
When you thinl, " Ah ha! God did not create the rainbow Because its just light passing through water creating a prism effect when it bends and therefore God cannot have created it." I say, " So you just figured out how he did it."
It is a matter of perspective and you better know that there is no way to PROVE God does not exist. Remember, there is an immaterial world which humans are not capable of seeing. So tell me what method will science use to figure things out it cannot see?
and another thing,You cannot prove there is no God. Do you not read the rest of the comments? And again, Making statements using such things that do not exist to make ridiculous of things that science cannot yet explain or explain away is NOT WISE according to your OWN Scientific logic. And further, YOU DO follow hitchens by the very fact that you use HIS STATMENTS. obviously I did not mean YOU FOLLOW HIM AROUND. But I see your not capable of distiguishing figure of speach from direct statment
And YOU mr. BLACK SABATH MAN are a disease to scientific thinking since you follow others and do not know any of what you speak from first hand FACT. I have first hand experience to say what I believe. Your search is only to DISPROVE God. Not inductive to say the least. And starting out with your own desires and then trying to prove it usually leads to LOONIE thinking because if you want to believe something is true. It is not hard to filter out anything else. Whereas I just wanted to know truth
WHERE EVER IT LEAD ME. And I did look into Scientific reasons to say God did not exist. Sorry there is none. So you, and all your self same minded people go against your own laws of education to come to the Conclusion that GOD does Not exist. You just are not capable of seeing that either. So how could you expect in your arrogance that God would show you that he exists? You dont want him to and he will give every man their desire regarding him. So keep it up and earn a ticket to uknowwhere.
@BlckSbthMan HAHAHAHAAHAHA HUH? Thats all you got? Nothing else to say? HAHAHHAHAHHAHA DUH! You people are like spots on society believing in some falty science out of desire to continue on as you are being selfish and arrogant so you are now trying to do away with faith and the belief in God as the supposed Natural Evolutionary LOGICAL NEXT STEP. What a bunch of hogwash. Thinking you can push faith out of the world. Now who is believing in Unicorns? Oh, one more thing, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@abeeftec Uh I do think I can, and I did. Alright so something cannot be created from nothing. (for the sake of your point) the big bang theory says the universe exploded out of nothing (which it doesn't) there is a problem there right? How can the universe come into existence out of nothing? Right , so there is a flaw in the theory correct? So there's a flaw in theory because we don't the knowledge of the universe we need to complete the theory. So again I reduce your point to the same as befor
@Plagueis1017 Yes it changed its thinking on that once again because it realized something cannot be created from NOTHING. So it says it was a tiny little whatever, they dont know, But something. Im sorry but I think it is ridiculous to think that there was a little tiny atom sitting there all alone all by itself in the middle of nothingness and it just exploded and created all this. You have no depth of thinking to believe that nonsense. So tell me, What is that area around that atom?
@abeeftec And where we come from how we got here and so on I'm going to be honest with you I don't know all of the answers no one does, and I feel anyone who claims to have all the answers (which is essentially what theism does) strikes me as a complete idiot. Like I keep saying the fact that science doesn't have all the answers is not an affirmation of your religion plain and simple. To me it seems like the rational reaction would be to think oh well we better keep studying and learning...
@Plagueis1017 Theism simply says AND GOD SAID. and it is not without merit. I never said that something can come from nothing. What I said was that SINCE something Cannot come from nothing.... (the conclusion) Then something must be self sustaining... And in that self be able to bring forth SOMETHING. Because one thing is fact, SOMETHING HAS EXISTED FOREVER WITH NO BEGINNING. Because the fact is that there was ALWAYS SOMETHING. That SOMETHING is GOD. Because before anything was...
as the bible states clearly... I AM. That is very simple to comprehend and with all of mans tries to explain they can never get past the fact that SOMETHING MUST exist Eternally and be self sustaining. ETERNALLY!!!! Can you Fathom this?? NEVER HAVING A BEGINNING!!! And that is FACT!! Do you know how I know that?? Because of the Begats in the Bible. The fact is that if someone begat someone and someone begat someone else then it stands to reason that if you begat far enough back you come to ONE
And when we get to the first then we MUST conclude that he did not Exist on HIS Own. So Where did he come from?? I think time on earth is not as long as science tries to make out. They put the earth at billions of years old because of what reason/??? Did they ever consider that since God is eternal the universe could have been created billions of years ago but man was not here that long? NO! Why? Because they dont want to conclude that. Proven Science I agree with. Too many Hypothesis are made
that become UNPROVEN. And I will not allow science to say something is Fact because they dont want God to exist. Evolution, UNPROVEN. Mutations, PROVEN. That does not mean evolution is true because of Mutations. And please tell me why it is that science will say that a MUTANT means we are moving in a positive direction? OH i know they will say that those mutant people are just DNA that forgot that we were past that!! STUPID!!! Thats NOT fact.. ITS SPECULATION. And its untrue.
But if you want to believe it because someone you esteem smarter then yourself says it then you STILL cannot call it FACT. IT IS A BELIEF NO DIFFRENT THEN WHAT I BELIEVE. Because If what I believe in your eyes is UNPROVABLE then your believe Still unproven IS A BELIEF. Now if you want to stay on what we do KNOW is fact then please dont bring up things that are SPECULATION. Evolution IS speculation. PERIOD. It is NOT proven.
And the very fact that JAY RICHARDS Concedes that the two can be agreeable shows he DENIES what the bible claims of God CREATING MAN FROM THE DUST OF THE GROUND AND BREATING THE BREATH OF LIFE INTO HIS NOSTRILS!!! Evolution in its MOST RECENT state Can agree with that if you do not go past bent over man. But since you CANNOT and are not willing to look past bent over man to see that there is NO OTHER beyond it then you mistakingly are calling Evolution fact because you see others say it is
And dont try to say that I dont understand because I DO. I put this in SIMPLE form using PLAIN Speach instead of using words everyone does not know because most who will read this DO NOT STUDY for themselves. A problem I will admit that MOST SO CALLED CHRISTAINS fall into. Because they want to trust their pastor. And of course people have a predisposition to laziness. They are not exempt from that. What I see is Athiests just as lazy in areas as they say Christains are calling opinion fact.
What I see is Athiests just as lazy in areas as they say Christains are calling opinion fact. It is NOT fact that man evolved yet because you CANNOT provide the state he was in before the bent over man. And the fact is that NO MATTER how you try to divide the two at one point Man had to come into being. Show me what man was before BENT OVER MAN. Can you do this to prove evolution??? And sure I will agree that does not PROVE the Existance of God. But it does not DISPROVE it either.
What you fail to see in this is that I am not trying to argue that I can PROVE God Exists to YOU. HE will either do that or he will not. And your attitude towards him has much to do with that. Well not entirely, but that is a different subject. I am simply trying to show you that SCIENCE Does NOT give you any reason to DOUBT That God exists OR Negate the shear possibility of it. Therefore YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF to Investigate Faith. I think you will see that you deal more in Faith in life
@abeeftec Here watch this video, Stephen Hawking does a far greater job of making my point than I ever could. The most important part is the quote at the end where he says "the ultimate goal is a complete theory of the universe and we are making good progress."
Great Minds: Stephen Hawking - The Grand Design Of The Universe
@Plagueis1017 So because of that quote you believe there is no God? I will get you some astrophysicist that will clearly show you the exact oposite. that a Grand DESIGN screams a GRAND CREATOR. You again are very shallow because you dont want God to be true. You cant have that because you may have to answer for the things you know you have done and the thought that you cannot do anything in private really bothers you because you think your entitled. Us free people tend to feel that way.
@Plagueis1017 They were not motivated by money. The REAL Christains were POOR and stayed that way. Money was the root of all evil and they divided riches. SURE if you lump in the catholics then SURE you can say they were Motivated by Money. But I know that God has sustained those who are HIS because I am one of them. And I also know that 90 percent of those who say they are Christains are FOOLING THEMSELVES!!! So please do not lump what I say in with them. I will conceed much that they will not.
@abeeftec "Lump in the Catholics"? If it's not a joke, you're deceiving yourself. A huge amount of Christian dogma, even protestant dogma, was made by various Catholic councils. Hell, even by acknowledging the divinity of Christ you concede your connection with the Catholic tradition. And the what about the protestant megachurches, and end of the world moneymakers? Of course you can say, "well I'm not like them." But if I keep pressing you like this, you'll soon find yourself in a church of 1.
@f3ailure Sorry buddy, But there you go again thinking that Christian was first Catholic. Remember where Catholosism comes from... Constantine. Do not LUMP that's right, DO NOT LUMP People Mistakes in with God. You can Judge People by peoples mistakes. Do not Judge GOD By PEOPLE. And as far as I am concerned. Do not lump Christains in with Catholics. Because catholics NEVER followed the Bible. They used it for power which it is completely against.
I said nothing of the sort. I said a huge amount of "Christian dogma, even protestant dogma" comes from the Catholics. That's inarguably true. Aside from your clear misreading of my statements, you follow a bizarre dogma which shows a clear misunderstanding of the basic history of your faith. The bottom line is, all leaders of all faiths have used their power to control the masses. Including whatever flavor of christianity you happen to follow.
@f3ailure you are insane because you dont know why my DOGMA is! And the fact that the BIble has been carried through catholocism for the years it seemed that all real christains had died off while this EVERYONE IS PROCLAIMED CHRISTIAN BY COMING TO THE CHURCH Nonsense called Catholocism SURE it appeared there were no christains there to a real Christains. But of course to someone who doesnt believe at all. They name Christ so they must be the christains. You have no clue of the history of Cathol
@f3ailure Oh one more thing.. I dont follow a FLAVOR of Christianity. There is a huge difference between calling yourself a Penticostal or Baptist, Methodist, To me, I think the Bible sums it up best when Christs says that the Church is NOT to be divided by men. Which is exactly what men do. Through their laziness. And exactly why these new branches keep poping up. They all give God a bad name.And sware they are the real truth. None of them know real truth because they divide before they start
@Plagueis1017 And in your estimation of men clearly motivated by power and money... Speaking of Catholics I will grant that is true. However, 1st century Christianity began with the apostles, and ended with going underground and those people gave up everything, Land, livestock, everything. And to say that every Christian is motivated by money is ridiculous because I for one have given it away constantly without question to people that even you would question why. Known drug users as well. WHY!
@Plagueis1017 Now your quoting me on things I never said. And then insulting me on that basis. WHERE did i say its a relationship not a religion? The fact is that I personally would never be involved with ORGANIZED religion. I think the real Christians of 1st century did not annouce they were a group, did not take handouts from the government and neither should christains now. Sorry but what you THINK is Christianity is a bunch of people who want to go to church on sunday to be better people.
@Plagueis1017 See there you go again thinking everyone that SAYS they are a Christian is actually one. There are many who claim to know Jesus when in fact all they really know is the God they made up in their own mind. And of course that God is easy to follow.... He thinks JUST like they do!! "Not everyone who says to me LORD LORD will enter the kingdom of Heaven".. please tell me why you think real Christains would have been confused over Jesus claims with a verse like that one??
@Plagueis1017 As far as not being able to disprove God... You don't try to prove a negative. The scientific method works like this. You create a hypothesis, you subject this hypothesis to a number of experiments to attempt to prove the hypothesis. If you cannot prove the hypothesis then you must assume that the hypothesis is wrong. You can't justify the belief in the existence of God by claiming there is no proof that God doesn't exist. But following the scientific method you can conclude that
@Plagueis1017 First I never tried to do that. I presented PART of a Logical conclusion I have drawn. I NEVER said that I was using a scientific method for saying God exists because you cant prove he doesnt. You need to stop saying What I did when there is no evidence that I even suggested God exists because there is no proof that he does not exist. I told you there is not enough room here or enough characters to show WHOLE reasons. And you still keep going back to assuming what my arguement is
Before you even know what it is. You may hear somethign that sounds like something you heard before and all of a sudden your quick to give the same canned answer. The fact is that you dont know where i was going what what i said. And what I said was that I have Drawn Rational Conclusions and they are LOGICAL. I gave ONE point and you gave me the whole way science figures out if something is correct. You know,, Your right on how Science draws conclusions. On everything But this subject.
Until you can LISTEN to reason with this subject you will be conditioned to give the same canned answers and explainations to people you misunderstand. And believe me, Your not willing to let anyone explain anything long enough before you speak that same canned answer. Trust and believe that you did not have any basis for telling me how science comes up with fact. Because in this they Wish it away. They do not DIS PROVE EITHER. and dont say that the burden is on me.
Because its not. Its on Christ. And you read and listen to the same people I do on science and Faith. And you draw the conclusion that there is no God based on what You want. Not what evidence there is. Believe me I do not see one scientific reason to say that God does not exist and if you think you see a scientific reason PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME because I would love to hear one scientist give a reason Based on science, why God does not Exist. And you KNOW you cannot.
Yeah yeah I know the burden is on me... NO, its on Christ and I think he proved it. You can argue the lost books of the Bible and whether there was a J before ESUS in the bible all you want but his Name was YESHUA Sure in some languages. If those are reasons why you think the word is fallible then you never read it with the intention of knowing or not knowing. GOD does witness to those who he determined before the foundation of the world. And YOU cannot say that he has not done that with me.
And why on earth would it be impossible for God to go against the very laws of science that HE MADE!! Sure that does not prove he Exists by saying that. But you say its not rational to think that way.. WHY NOT?? Do irrational things happen on PLANET EARTH?? Do some things seem to be as though they are not?? You cannot EXPLAIN God away no more then you can EXPLAIN him into Existance. This is NOT an issue to PROVE. it is GODS Job to prove. And the wheat will grow with the tares.
There will be those who claim to be spiritual and are not. what they think Spiritual is is really their emotions. But what about the man who does not react according to emotions? Can you say that mans spirituality is emotional?? I would say not. I am not here to DISPROVE science or to say that Science PROVES God exists. I am here to say that EITHER WAY There is NO PROOF EITHER WAY!! And you cannot say there is. Because where you say it PROVES I say all it proves is how God works.
This is NOT a debate that can be WON or an arguement that has an ending. There has been much smarter people then me and you both who have never come to a conclusion... Do you know why the bible says, " The fool says in his heart there is no GOD?" Do you? Because you would have to be a fool to think YOU CAN KNOW IT!! And that verse is still FACT. Because you KNOW you cannot know it!! It is GOD who proves who he is to the hearts of those he wants to. And the others..> He lets perish.
I see far too many people saying, If God is Love HOW can he let babies die, and let deformed people even happen.. How can he allow such Cruel things.. And the Question that is MORE pressing.. which never gets asked is... HOW can God let all the Good things happen to people who are Going to Perish!! But I do know that answer as well. Perspective is What this arguement is about. That is all. And if you try to Say that it is anything else but.. Then you are Violating Scientific thought.
@Plagueis1017 because there is no irrefutable definitive proof of the existence of a God then logical there is no God. Richards claims that they have proof that SUGGESTS or POINTS to the POSSIBILITY of intelligent design. It is not proof of God it is a vague open to interpretation claim. Clearly Richards' predisposition to religion has lead him to interpret the findings he has made the way he does.
@Plagueis1017 And what you failt to see is your desire for there NOT to be a God has caused you to be the opposite way. Because you think your view is based in fact and sure some of it is. But the evolution nonsense, I cant see how any of you can really claim that as fact but for any other reason of trying to refute intelligent design. you cannot take a scientific theory and RIP It in two and say the later half is true and still not have any info on the former and sware you dont need it.
@abeeftec Has it occurred to you that maybe you have come to your conclusions because of your desire to believe in a God? And your view of evolution seems extremely deluded. First off the sole purpose of the theory of evolution is not to disprove creationism. Actually Jay Richards even says evolution and creationism don't have to be opposing ideas (which is funny because I wrote a paper in high school during my theist days that made the same point) You can have a God that created everything and
@Plagueis1017 Has it occured to you that you are trying to turn my arguement that you say God does not exist because you do not want him to around on me? And has it occured to you YET that I told you not to use those same arguements you use on every other Christian on me because they do not apply? I DID NOT HAVE SOMETHING BAD HAPPEN TO ME THAT CAUSED ME TO NEED GOD. I became one by FORCE of God. So the whole FREE WILL Thing Christains say is WRONG. we do not have Free will.
@abeeftec evolution took it from there. So if you think my backing of evolution is caused by my predisposition to theism you are sorely mistaken. And there's a really good reason why evolution is the accepted scientific theory of the origin of species because there is a mountain of evidence to support the theory. Its not some evil conspiracy to keep christians ideals down by the big bad atheists. And also let me point out that the theory of evolution is a theory. Theories are built on over time
@Plagueis1017 There is NOT enough evidence to suggest Evolution is truth. It is a stretch. The MOUND of evidence you are referring to is actually evidence that some things can change. It is NO evidence that we are turning from something into something else. The DNA of man is STILL The same. MOST of man is still the same. All you need to do is THINK to know that evolution, as soon as you get to ORIGINS is foolish. This is why Jay looks like an idiot. The Bible is OPPOSED to that view.
@abeeftec That is just a silly statement. Here, why don't you go do some research on evolution get your facts straight then we'll discuss it. And yeah there most definitely is a mountain of evidence. And your right our DNA has for the most part stayed the same since we evolved into humans good observation :) And since we are on the topic of DNA there is about a 1% difference between human DNA and chimp DNA. Which would make sense considering we both evolved from a common ancestor.
@Plagueis1017 It is not a silly statement. The fact will ALWAYS remain that if you take origins away from Evolution then you come up with WHERE did man come from and that cannot be avoided. I do not need to look at the facts surrounding evolution if what you mean is that we can remove Origins from it. Because we cannot. You must know that you cannot say we are evolving if you stay within a certain time frame and do not have anything to say about what is before the so called superfamily.
Because you see, The evidence for us evolving is based on slight variations that they see in humans now. To me, there is no proof that man was bent over like a cave man. And what goes on inside the human body now does not show any evidence that we are changing or are a mutant from the same family as monkeys, apes, chimps or any other animal. The fact is we are all indigenous to EARTH so of course we have similarities but our DNA is not ONE percent different then chimps. That is not fact.
@Plagueis1017 Thats funny, I feel the same about yours. Just look at the facts again and ask yourself every time.. IS IT POSSIBLE that this has nothing to do with man going from a one celled Organism and changing into a full fledged human with sexual organs to reproduce by other means. And every time you see that it is hogwash. And evolution MUST have a beginnin like that or else it fails to be. Because man did not happen IN THE BIG BANG. He did not just happen during the explosion.
@abeeftec Is it possible? Sure its possible just like its possible as far as you know I'm not actually a human I'm 3 ducks in a man costume. You don't seriously think we were one celled organisms one day and modern humans the next day do you? Are you intentionally misrepresenting facts to support your own conclusions or were you just mislead by someone else misrepresenting facts? Evolution is backed by facts and evidence while creationism is backed by a questionable book and a guy with a funny
@Plagueis1017 No I do not think that we were ever One celled organisms at all. And no I know you dont think that it happened in one day. To the contrary you think it happened over billions of years which still poses an ENORMOUS Intelectual problem. But I dont expect you to see that at all because you refuse to use your intelect to see it. If you would like an explaination as to the foolishness of your thinking I will most certainly Oblige
@Plagueis1017 You cannot see that it takes man and woman to reproduce and the one celled Organism can only reproduce itself? Where did this thing Grow to have a Penis and Vagina and reproduce differently then only able to reproduce itself. You see that no matter what you say," OVER BILLIONS OF YEARS" or Gradually, or we dont know. You cannot change the fact that at ONE POINT the CELLS would have had to stop reproducing themselves and Started reproducinig as we do now.
only other option is that it/he/she was able to reproduce BOTH ways at one point in this way of thinking.Because if it could not reproduce BOTH ways then it would had died off in the transaction somewhere and we would not be!! Man cannot live past even 140 years let alone hundreds of thousands.So your saying that the One celled Organism reproducing itself over hundreds of thousands of years Made a change to include another group of cells and a brain to know that the other group was attractive?
Is this what you speculate? OR do you have a better theory of possibility?? Because as much as I have thought on it there is no way to reconcile the direct Contradiction that man cannot live inside of himself and MUST DIE therefore he would have died off. YET you could say that during some period there was every Group of changes on earth at one time. But still in order to get there the ones that are as we are now WOULD HAVE TO HAVE GROWN TO AS WE ARE NOW or he just appeared?
No matter how you slice it... The changes that would have needed to take place from the organism to the way reproduction happens now, if in fact it happened over millions of years as you say, Would have caused the extinction of either the organism OR MAN. because at one point he would had to have started to grow diffrent ways of reproduction which over that many years would not had been enough to reproduce while in the making. So this Quasi half man being would be reproducing by osmosis.
I mean, that is the ridiculousness of that thinking. NO WAY he ever had BOTH ways of reproducing. I cannot say this any better because it is so simple to me to clearly see how it is not possible. But if you cant see it now then I cant help you anymore. Think about this subject and Length of time, Reproduction, how its possible even in theory. IT Does not add up to LOGIC.
@Plagueis1017 There you go again with no proof and trying to make it appear as if it is foolish to say evolution is not fact because some scientists SAY it is fact., I dont care what they say. Until they can prove it with facts it is NOT FACT. As I said before, The evidence does not support fact. It supports changes sure but it does NOT support that man came from a one celled organism. And when you see that us coming from one celled organisms is foolish then the rest of evolution will be too
You do know that they are making certain assumptions to say Evolution is fact dont you? The first asserted assumption is that man was something before man and soon will be something else! That is NONSENSE.
As I said before, as soon as you remove Orgins from WHAT MAN IS TODAY to call it fact then you prove what your intended Goal is. TO PUSH evolution as truth to befuddle people. YOU CANNOT SEPERATE THE TWO LOGICALLY and call one side PROVEN fact of the other side. There is a LARGE GAP missing.
A Gap of supposed BILLIONS of years of Growth!! And without that Gap filled you are stuck with a one celled organism on one side...... And a Bent over man that resembles a chimp on the other. And trying to say that you can PROVE beyond a shadow of doubt that both are true is a total contradiction because NO WAY we could have ever survived from ONE CELL reproducing itself to a Total Being reproducting with another being. Somewhere man would have died off in that thinking.
But you do not see that because you can follow what other men tell you but you cannot think logically on your own. very sad really that you cannot see that even if man could have lived THOUSANDS of years Long ago he could NEVER had made that Change from a cell that reproduces itself to a man having intercourse with a woman and creating another person. That is SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE!!! he would had died off entirely before knowing that a change took place in his reproductive nature
AND please tell me when he grew the brain to be stimulated towards the woman group of cells? you see, to me what you are saying is that at one point in time, Man could have SELF reproduced or had intercourse with a woman to reproduce. Sounds like something a movie could be made about... OH I forgot, they did make a movie about that.... GREMLINS ;)
@abeeftec No I am saying it is foolish to believe in a book that makes absurd claims. And it is foolish to say the bible is fact because some guy in a church says its fact. I don't care what they say. Until they prove it with facts it is not fact. I hope I clearly portrayed the irony of your above statement. Ok so let me clarify this you say the evidence supports changes but it doesn't support that we came from single celled organisms. So if I understand what you mean by changes ...
@Plagueis1017 no no, Dont try to say what you think I mean by changes. Because I am sure it will be foolish what you will say... I believe that the changes are possible without changing what we are. I do not mean,,, some day we will have another leg or someday we will have 7 fingers. ALL OF US. and I do not believe because some guy in a church says so. THAT is what you think a Christain is and I already told you and am saying again. I DO NOT listen to ORGANIZED RELIGION.
@Plagueis1017 You know I would say the same thing if it was not for the fact that I was shown Salvation before I ever read the book. I believe too it would be foolish to say that the Bible is fact JUST because some man in a church says so. But THEY dont need to PROVE It to you. I would think that your life means a little more to you then to waive it off as nonsense before a thorough investigation of it. Which if you had done you would know that the Bible tells how God will show you.
@abeeftec .. then essentially what these changes are is the process of evolution and natural selection. (And its not some scientists who say evolution is right its Im going to speculate 99% of them and even Jay Richards seems to support the idea of evolution.) It only makes sense that one would ask the question what is the first common ancestor. What was the organism from which all life originated. The prevailing theory (let me reiterate theory) is that the first common ancestor was ...
@Plagueis1017 I do NOT believe those changes are the process Of evolution in that those changes are in the same scope of changes that happened from BILLIONS of years ago from a one celled organism becoming whatever we supposedly will be billions of years from now. I think those changes can be classified as IMMUNO or Mutational. Meaning, a Part of the negative pole of humanities fall. I do NOT ever see mutations creating something super human but always a mutation causes a DEFECT.
1. Biology . a.a sudden departure from the parent type in one or more heritable characteristics, caused by a change in a gene or a chromosome. b.an individual, species, or the like, resulting from such a departure.
@Plagueis1017 I did not say the Definition of Mutation is DEFECT. I said there has NEVER been a Mutation in HUMANS that caused anything POSITIVE. It always is a defect. NEVER anything positive. So we would be DEVOLVING. Not EVOLVING based on ANY Mutation we have saw in Natural man.
@Plagueis1017 And I have sincerely tried to follow Organized religion and when I see these people making errors on the bible and not willing to be corrected but also not having an answer for why they believe what they do. I know that it is time to follow Jesus for what the Bible says and not what people heard from their pastors pastors pastors and handed the same nosense down from Generation to Generation not every questioning them or finding error. Because To me, ERROR is due to laziness.
It did NOT destroy my faith because my faith in God is due to what God has shown me in life about him, The world, Peoples motives, the negative pole on humanity, The light he has shown me in regards to his creation, and how so complex it is, the wonder of it all, and not to mention how far he has shown me of things eternal. Which I am sorry but most, and this includes you, CANNOT see. Which is why you would fall for something like groups of mutated cells eventually becoming what we are today.
Talking with you shows me just how much you assume things and how you take what someone says who has an opposing view from you and try to make it sound ridiculous using arguements you heard somewhere else and have not really looked into them yourself with an open mind but when you see anything scientific you dont look for God. You look to disprove him. And that is why you will never see him.It is an arrogant stand to take.And it may cost you your soul if you dont leave a door open to possibility
@Plagueis1017 You are very funny. Nice attempt at trying to make me look like a loon. But it will not work. Again, You have nothing else to say so you insult. NEVER have I insulted you personally. I have simply spoke on the arguements. But you MUST do that because you feel like in doing so you will appear to be the wiser. To me I know why you do it. IT makes you feel superior. And God does show me things. And NO not with Audible voices. Over time, I get answers to the questions you ask.
It takes a long time and I used to be incapacitated from these very questions and NO ONE could offer answers to them. I fought off agreeing with God for years. I came to learn that God is there, and there is irrefutable FACT in my life that he does have his hand in the affairs of my life. I CAN TRUST HIM AND HIS JUDGEMENTS. ( I know when you see that word you think NEGATIVE). I am MOST hard headed and more then likely harder headed then you. The difference is this......
I would not STOP until I had answers of a satisfactory nature never accepting what anyone said but looking into it with all due dilligence not being for or against anything. YOU onthe other hand MUST look into it with a negative mind set trying to look for something to disprove. It is amazing how the human mind in its negative pole wants so badly to be able to continue with its selfishness and GOD COMPLEX towards himself. Because that is what you suffer from. You want to BE GOD of your life.
ugh, how can he say there is no infinte regression when trying to logically deduce the existence of God ultimately resorts to a regression??? The problem with the theistic view is its initial assumption that GOD already exists. Its nearly impossible to argue against that stance, and really shouldnt be the atheists attempt in the first place, the burden of proof has always been those who say religion is true, or that god's existence is true, let alone infinite and good.
UtopiaMinor666 2 weeks ago
Can this not be made in sync and reup'ed??? This is horrible.
Skavar4000 1 month ago
poor hitchebs with all his fine sounding words / language he is void /empty
914light 1 month ago
@HectorYLaComay Kinda makes it impossible to disprove God :)
Floortjahh 1 month ago
What the hell is going on when Hitchens asks those questions at 2:25? He asks those questions and the religious guy looks like he is talking still, but there is no sound. Then Hitchens is talking a bit and it's cut out too. Is this dubbed that way, or what? I can't imagine BOTH of them are whispering to themselves. The religious guy looks like he is mouthing EXACTLY what Hitch says while he says it. It's fucked up 0_o
Reip187 2 months ago in playlist Hitchens Dawkins Harris Tyson
@Reip187 Oh yeah...it is definitely dubbed. I see the crowd cut to clapping while they are talking still. This is dubbed to hell.
Reip187 2 months ago in playlist Hitchens Dawkins Harris Tyson
@Reip187 The sound is about 15 seconds faster than the visual. It seems the gap has increased in each video. It's not dubbed, but it is really annoying.
Floortjahh 1 month ago
Hitchens' "I'll answer that question in reverse order" is an absolutely genius way to completely destroy leading questions and I'm definitely going to steal it when I'm dealing with them.
SH1N1NGG0LD 3 months ago
Catching a pen is a miracle.
ChrisBrett2K 4 months ago
Why does the the Blond one keep referring to Paul? He never met Christ. He constructed his views from hearsay, not reality. HIs views are not Christian they are Pauline.
mlcollins10 4 months ago
They all got Hitchslapped.
mlcollins10 4 months ago 3
What did he say at 4:33???
Gravija1980 5 months ago
@HectorYLaComay Books written by Jews always glorify the Jews. Gee, I wonder why that is?
MrTruthAddict 5 months ago
I hope someday that religious belief is classified as a psychriatric disorder.
Benno1515 5 months ago 3
@Benno1515 I hope so too. If the American Psychiatric Association were not so scared about being politically incorrect, it probably would classify at least aspects of religious belief as mental disorder. After all, believing that one is hearing voices, believing in an invisible presence, an inflated sense of self-worth because of unimportant or unverifiable considerations, etc, are all symptoms of mental disorder.
SkullOfYorick 2 months ago in playlist More videos from pablonoriega89
4:33 Can anybody make that out? I couldn't understand it..
youztuber5000 5 months ago
@HectorYLaComay Right, and yet you call rejecting the idea that we should accept the existence of something which shows no sign of existence "simplistic". I'm asking for an explanation of why you think that it is simplistic to reject the proposition that something that exists when there is no evidence for it.
ralph489 6 months ago
@HectorYLaComay Why would "exist" not apply to God? Either God is or isn't. Either He exists or doesn't. I'll admit that I have some fondness for the way that Jews seem more interested in study of religion than Christians are, but where do you get off claiming that not believing that God can simultaneously exist and not exist (or maybe neither exists nor doesn't exist, if that's somehow different to you) is "simplistic"?
ralph489 6 months ago
Ben Stein is a ignorant prick
cygnusx555 6 months ago 2
@cygnusx555 thumbs up for the validity of the statement, slight downgrade for poor grammar (He is AN ignorant prick, rather than A ignorant prick). Still, your point stands.
lordirek1 5 months ago
@HectorYLaComay I really enjoy how theists have started throwing such terms, which so obviously apply and have been applied to themselves, at atheists. I find it confirming.
Anyway, you are obviously ignorant of scientific history on the most basic level and have failed to understand the concept of scientific method to begin with. Seriously, you fail to realize that scientists have been unable to explain certaing things in the past? You do not seem to understand what you are ojecting to.
Jornev 7 months ago
Fuck you Ben Stein. Fuck you.
PathToVendetta 7 months ago
Wow Ben Stein... Your bias shows in your questions. It's not your debate, ask a straight question. CCN Bias.
Xanifur 7 months ago 16
@HectorYLaComay - my atheism is new. After spending the bulk of my life so far having "absolute faith" in the teachings of my christian upbringing, I have spent the last 9 months researching - with as open a mind as possible - both sides of the story. I have not found anything to convince me that there is a god. I really am an incarnation of "ignorance is bliss" because now "god did it" doesn't work - I'm so aware of how little i know about anything, and how much i have to learn. Its bliss!
MsMeaningofLife 7 months ago 3
I guess life is like a tree (the tree of life?). Our roots start in this earth (our 3D world). But, as we "grow" (the trunk part), we eventually reach a bifurcation point were we must choose which branch to follow (quantum de-coherence?). All branches are real, and exist simultaneously as higher order universes, in parallel realities. Heaven, hell, and all in between possibilities are just as real, but it's up to us to choose (with our actions & aptitudes) which one will become our own reality.
MashiahBenYosef 7 months ago
"Are you a cunt"? "yes"...."I rest my case"!!
bermudaguy1 7 months ago
0:40 - 0:55
empes 8 months ago
How all debates with Theists are:
Theist - Use metaphors to explain everything.
Atheist- use logic, facts, science, connects loss ends.
Theist - we are the existing majority so it must be true. *so did people who thought the world was flat etc*
Atheist - majority has nothing to do with truth, but facts...
Theist - cuts him off, GOD!!!! GOD is everything!!!! Thats just the way it is. Can't argue that!!!
Atheist - you're right. It is impossible to debate something that defies logic, using logic.
geradical 8 months ago 22
Hitch... Go easy on the guy. lol
Clifton100 8 months ago
If the evidence for evolution were Conclusive in that ALL scientists are forced to agree in so much as they do regarding ELECTRICITY POWERING YOUR HOME AND VERY WELL NEEDED FOR OUR WAY OF LIFE NOW, Of which NO ONE would even debate that, Then you would have proven Evolution. But as of now, Since some scientists(very renowned scientists I might add) Disagree with Evolution, I would say that PROOF is something of the future either way. It is a battle of REASON. NOT FACTS though some facts r spoken
abeeftec 8 months ago
I do feel pretty bad for Hitchens though after learning that he has Cancer. I respecfully offer my condolences and will pray that God spare him, Save him, and have him announce that he has met God finally before he dies. But that of course will do nothing for his followers which will just declare that he was in a state of dimentia when he finally says it if God is so gracious as to answer my prayer and others prayers who know the right thing is to pray for hitchens salvation.
abeeftec 8 months ago
"there is not a theologian who would define miracles as the suspension or violation of physical laws"
even if thats true, its quite a problem isnt it. imagine any apologist interrupting a church sermon "excuse me, i just wanted to clarify- no christians should think that jesus performed miracles" why do these people always defend versions of religions that no significant amount of religious people hold? why cant they defend christianity
zech48 8 months ago
@zech48 There is a major problem with debating from people of Faith as a whole. Even in Christianity there are disputes and quarrels from people who do not want to just speak what they know to be true but speak what they heard that has been passed from generation to generation. And in an attempt by some (Who I personally think are lazy)So called Christains to be agreeable on some subjects they have not studied themselves but hear many call fact, Those folks debating is for them. NOT for God.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec i grew up in a christian social monopoly, went to 3 private christian schools, a plethora of churches, my father was a pastor and we started 2 church plants in my time, and we moved through about 7 towns over all this. i asked a friend recently and she affirmed my experience- it was never ever ever even mentioned that anybody doubts literal inerrant young earth scripture. the idea just doesnt exist in connecticut. i actually had to explain it to my friend in order to ask!
zech48 8 months ago
@zech48 I think pastors kids and those raised in the ministry have it worse then someone who comes in the church later in life. Those kids normally believe they are saved because they have been in the chuch forever. And unfortunatly the people who they go to chuch with dont ever explain true salvation to them because they dont know what it is. They are so close to the truth but leave just enough of it out to make it a lie. It can only be described as Satans best kept secret.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec i have to disagree from experience. i never saw even suggestions of disagreements on doctrine in my first 18 years of life, which was pretty much a tour of massachusets-connecticut christianity. it was a take it or leave it package.
zech48 8 months ago
'Man made and a delusion' - well said, Hitch.
boscognome 8 months ago
As soon as Jay picked up that pen he became Hitchens bitch! 04.20
KaburaYi 8 months ago
Hitchens proves he does not understand the Bibles message when he says that Jesus said, " I did not come to bring peace but a Sword." and then he claims that people say he didnt come to preach war! Jesus statement about bringing a sword had to do with What a Sword does! It divides flesh from bone in the same way that he came to divide FLESH from SPIRIT! Which has NOTHING to do with WAR Literally but War inside you!! Hitchens argues from his ignorance of Bibilical Theology.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec Fantastic a christian accusing another of biblical ignorance. Did you know that in the original Greek and Latin versions of the Bible Jesus claims that he is NOT I repeat NOT the Christ. And Jesus goes on to warn that anyone claiming that Jesus is the Christ is a liar. Paul goes on to call these people fools and corrupters of the glory of God.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 You obviously are another person who will speak things you do not know of. And also a person who cannot show the source of his evidence. Just saying that does not make it so. Y0u are Definately one of those people who did not study this for youself but believe another and call it fact. NIV 1 john 4:2.This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. NOW tell me that is mis translated.
abeeftec 8 months ago
And when you respond please do it at the end of the thought. Not in the middle so what i said was all broken up so that people can understand a bit more then a 500 word limitation. This 1. is not the place for this and 2. If you really think that a Christian cannot Know more about the bible he reads daily and studies his WHOLE LIFE, just because a few claim that and do not, then you friend are the foolish one. Dont lump me with those you have argued with in the past. I am NOT them.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec I'd have to see what the original Greek text says. There are so many things that make it clear that the English King James Bible is a joke. How about the fact that the name Jesus does not appear once not once in the 1611 edition of the King James Bible. How about the fact that the letter J didn't exist during the proclaimed life of Jesus. How about the fact that there were numerous Biblical texts that were edited out of the bible. What about the fact that before the counsel of Nisea...
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 The points you bring up do not change the validity of the theme nor its accuracy. You are speaking of a translation instead of someone who would study Original language and not only that But Isogogics and proper exegesis is essential. Not many of the so called Christains you are against Do that. And unfortunately neither do Atheists. But even if Atheists did you have a fundamental problem with their Version.. It is steeped in the desire to maintain SELF which will always err.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec Christians couldn't even agree on whether or not Jesus (or whatever his real name was) was the son of God. You accuse me of only believing what I hear and show no evidence, when it is clear that is exactly what you are guilty of. You only take to heart the parts of the Bible that affirm your beliefs and ignore whatever you have to in order to maintain your delusional world view. Check out the channel ForBibleTruth he'll show you your evidence.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 It is NOT clear that is what I do because you have heard NOT A SINGLE one of my arguements. You only hear the same ones you always here. It is NOT delusional and it is not going to go away. Bet on it. He cannot show EVIDENCE that God does not exist and he says that himself. Stop putting words in his mouth. What he shows is HIS REASON.. Not Factual Evidence. And you say IM the one mixing up fact with opinion and faith? Get real!!! You are the one that is delusional
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec I never said anything about the existence of God I am talking about the Bible. And yes that is precisely what you do you cannot be a Christian without being guilty of accepting things you are told solely on faith. Actually I have heard your arguments but what did you expect that I was just going to through my arms up in concession? You have thus far ignored every single point I made to show the inconsistencies in different versions of the Bible and attempts to edit and omit these ...
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 I just caught this, I have not ignored a thing you said. IN fact, You have ignored everything I have said except to either insult me or bring some point you think is valid in relation to what you think. YES there are reports that certain things are not accurate in the Bible. But in every case the author such claims had motive to make the claims. Find me ONE shred of proof that the bible is inaccurate from a source that does not have direct motive to say its off!! You cannot do it
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec inconsistencies by men. Men who were clearly motivated by power and money. How can you seriously call anyone else delusional when you believe such physically impossible things happened like Jesus being resurrected, a virgin birth, an all powerful man living in the clouds. These claims borderline insanity. And yes I did insult you because I get very riled up when someone makes a ridiculous claim like "Its a relationship not a religion." I mean really? Really? Come one!
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 Because I believe there is a God and I believe that if there would be a so called CHANCE of a reason for Us to be here that takes more faith to believe then God Said! And called everything into being. So when you think back about the fact that NOTHING can be set in motion unless an outside for start that motion.. and you think IT STARTED ON ITS OWN? That takes a WHOLE lot of Faith even from a scientific standpoint. It lacks reason or logic to think that way.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec An you have not heard a single one of my arguements for why God exists.. Everything I have argued so far has been WHY you cannot Standardize religion to say there is no God because if any are correct it could be only one of them since they all disagree. And even in the Christains faith the same way. The fact is that if I took opposing scientists and argued from each of their hypothesis on something not yet poven to someone then I can make science look foolish to someone who dont know.
abeeftec 8 months ago
You cannot say you have heard me argue something I have not argued. And if you think that I have then your sorrily mistaken. I may have hinted a few things but never have I given arguements for Gods Existance that are Scientific. I just hinted at one rational thought above but that is all. Because I do think it is MUCH easier for a man who wants to continue to live as he does to say,"Well science cant answer that yet." Because the Alternative to THERE IS NO ANSWER is GOD SAID.
abeeftec 8 months ago
And to that Question I will take you back to every single time because it takes less faith using sound reason to believe, even while using Scientific thinking, That Something cannot come from nothing. So there MUST be an outside force. Now what that outside force is Science is not willing to say what it is. Speculate sure but they cannot come to a solid conclusion and I just love how Science catagorizes things to make something fact that never was fact on THIS SUBJECT ONLY. But doesnt on others
abeeftec 8 months ago
But there is not enough room to speak here because the fact is that every 500 characters gets broken up and no real thought continues. So we could be argueing with half statements which personally I do not like to do.
We can agree to disagree but the fact is that I am a pretty sane person who is respected as someone people would talk to to get sound council on many issues. Very unbiased and rational. Yet to an athiest, because I am a threat to their thinking, I am insulted many times.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec So you can make science look foolish by arguing in favor of a Man with magic powers living in the sky and his son who was born of a virgin and died and came back to life? Really? Do you not see the hilarity of that statement? Give me a break jeez. And so again you are essential stating that because we cannot fully explain the Universe and its origins and blah blah blah that it makes believing in God the logical decision with your whole ...
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 What I find to be hilarious is that you read one statement from me and think that is the basis of my faith. That to me is HILARIOUS. That you literally think that there is enough room in a few 500 character statements to address the issue. I made one partial thought on the subject and you again come with the canned answers regarding something else. When you say MAN WITH MAGIC POWERS YOU make it ridiculous because the Bible NEVER said that. Yes I do see Hilarity that you think that
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 and you know, You may get angry when someone says Its a relationship not a religion.. But I get a little freaken tired as well hearing you people say MAN WITH MAGIC POWERS... HE IS NOT A MAN, HE DOES NOT HAVE MAGIC POWERS!!! He is God almighty and he is so slow to wrath you get to say such things without being magically vanished from earth never to be seen again. YOU get to deny him. YES what a tyrant he is!!! You get the desires of your heart!!! BECAUSE HES SOOOO OPPRESSIVE
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec You wonder so much why he allows bad things to happen to good people.. And you ACTUALLY think man is GOOD!!! You are deluded friend. YOU are deluded. There is NO ONE GOOD!! No one who does righteous!! You know what that means?? Thats right, Not that you can LOOK to be doing something noble for someone. But that you would only do something that appears noble if there is some gain in it for you. And that is a fact. Like it or lump it.
abeeftec 8 months ago
Now tell me that you can do something for someone else without them ever knowing it and you never taking credit a day in your life. And I will say your a blatant liar to try to prove your point. I KNOW you cannot do it. I am certain the Bible is ABSOLUTLY correct when it says what it says about the heart of man. And that you cannot deny.
abeeftec 8 months ago
Well you can deny it to me... .But you know in your own heart you cannot. You would have to take credit for doing something like that in some way. You cannot let something like that go untold about yourself. Because YOU NEED acceptance, justification that your a good guy. You NEED those things in your life to feel sound. And you know its true. No matter how you answer it. You know its true.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec "..about the fact that NOTHING can be set in motion unless an outside for start that motion.. and you think IT STARTED ON ITS OWN? That takes a WHOLE lot of Faith even from a scientific standpoint. It lacks reason or logic to think that way." statement. Do you want to know what to right answer to the question "Where did the universe come from?" Here I'll fill you in, the answer is WE DON'T KNOW. Simply because religion can explain it does not in the least make it the right answer...
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 There you go again,,, The fact that you DONT KNOW does not mean that you cannot propose LOGIC and RATIONALE to your own Laws. And this is the problem I have with you. That you think that " I DONT KNOW" Equates to There is no God is laughable. You go against your own laws. OR your just not able to think that deep. The fact that there is SOMETHING MOVING means there was a time when there was NOTHING moving. And the fact that the something started moving means SOMETHING made it move.
abeeftec 8 months ago
So if SOMETHING made it move then we MUST conclude there is something that started things in motion.. That much we agree on. You se also in the same arguement the fact that all things come from something means there was a time when there was NOTHING. So conclusion(of course this is the short version)...At one point there was NOTHING MATERIAL. Now, WHERE did the Material come from?? one thing you choose not to answer rationally is this question. Because NOTHING cannot cause SOMETHING RIGHT?
abeeftec 8 months ago
So then you have to conclude that something made the material come into being. Nothing in material but SOMETHING Immaterial! You cannot deny those two facts. Because THEY ARE RATIONAL and LOGICAL. If you disagree then we have a problem because you would be saying something always existed in the material. And that is simply not possible based on your own scientific laws. Now I am willing to say that God made those laws you look to so he can in fact change them.
abeeftec 8 months ago
But you say he cannot change them because he doesnt exist. And then I say you have a problem then because you are contradicting the laws you rely on. We also know that something that is set in motion must have an outside force to stop it from moving or it will keep moving. its not a what came first the chicken or the egg claim. Because we know that the chicken came first or else it could not lay an egg. BECAUSE AN EGG CANNOT MOVE ITSELF!! But a Chicken can move itself.
abeeftec 8 months ago
But that Poses another question... Can it EXIST in and of itself??? NOPE. it needs what is necessary to support it. And this is where you just say WE HAVENT GOTTEN THAT FAR YET.. and I say... YOU NEVER WILL!!
It is NOT possible for you to get any further then you already are on the Question of Existance. You think that chicken could have sustained its own life or grew from nothing or just came into being by chance in a CESS POOL? How did it grow? How did it not die off? How did it reproduce?
abeeftec 8 months ago
And the most laughable thing I have ever heard from science (which as i said before science in and of itself is not laughable but this is) that a One celled organism that can only reproduce itself can over millions of years grow sex organs and reproduce a different way.. THAT IS LUDACRIS!! It would have died off long before it grew a brain enough to know. Do you know how many atheists i have heard say this happened over millions of years and believe that is possible???
abeeftec 8 months ago
It only takes me a moment to know that what Science thinks about evolution based on mutation regarding HUMANS over millions of years is not possible through any of the three types. THE QUASI MAN(OR man before the Habilis) OR man while still in the SO CALLED Superfamily. That which SUPPOSED he was in between Man and a One celled Organism could NEVER have made it to Hominoidea. NO WAY it could have survived to evolve any futher!! IT would have died off!!!! Think about it!!
abeeftec 8 months ago
See but you will seperate ORIGINS from Evolution so you can call Human evolution FACT when there is NO WAY you can ever convince me that EVOLUTION is true if Man came from SO CALLED One celled organisms. So if you try to refute that and say that you no longer believe that. Let me ask you then, WHATEVER form man was in before NOW or at his beginning.. HOW did that MAN GET HERE?? OH I know what you will say... WE DONT KNOW.. Well I believe we can rationally reject Human evolution in that sense.
abeeftec 8 months ago
There is not enough room here to get into this but if you would like to hear my point of view Set me up with a debate between me and hitchens and I believe my words would make more sense then typing here. Or if you care for yourself... CALL ME. I will give you my number, speak my veiw and hang up. NO more talking because I do beleive that I can show you where EVOLUTION is not a rational answer. It is still not fact either. Mutation.. YES. Human Evolution? NO
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec Just how its foolish to create a story of an all powerful being and all sorts of events that defy physics? So you use physics to propose that there is a being that defies physics? You know what your right the bible doesnt literally say God has magic powers but it does say things like he is omnipotent. So So what Im doing is using a rather crude method to say the same thing.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@abeeftec... Just how the ancient Greeks were wrong to think that Monsters and Titans and so forth were the causes of natural occurrences in the world around them. Your point that because the science we have cannot explain it it must be explained by God is just silly man. But for the sake of argument lets say you're right. We must conclude that there is a creator of all existence (there is a God). Who's God is it? Is it Allah, Yahweh, Buddha,? There are numerous variables that plug holes into ..
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 This is not what you establish first. You do not establish WHICH is right first to argue whether there is one. First you must admit the possibility that there is one. God is not Mocked. Humans make the mistake always of thinking they can mock God. He doesnt need you to beleive he exists. And that is a good question though and the answer lay in the very light of the basic questions people ask always. Christianity as a mainstream religion is even wrong. You Can know for sure.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec your ideology. Not to mention things like variations in each different religion. For example the 30 some thousand different denominations of christiany. So of those different variations how can you claim that yours is the only correct ideology. How can you even claim that any of the ideologies on earth are right?
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 That is not part of the arguement.. Stop moving all over the place.. You will confuse yourself before you get started. Stay on one topic.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec Now you make the same argument that because we cannot explain everything perfectly with the science and knowledge we have then it is only logical to believe in God.Well by that logic we should all believe in monsters and titans of ancient greece since they explain the world around us perfectly. Do you see the point Im trying to make here? Do you see the flaws in that logic? Given enough time we will likely be able to explain the things we can't explain now.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 NO that is NOT the arguement I made. You added that part because it is typical for you to think that someone said that. I Cannot change your thinking no more then you can change mine. The fact is that all we can do is listen and add to what we think we know already. I am saying that Science does not speculate and because there is no solid rational reason that does not DISPROVE God.That is what I am saying. See you keep lumping me in with everyone else. Thinking I use the same logic
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec That is exactly what your point boils down to that because we cannot explain everything with science we must explain it with God. See I'm reading between the lines here and reducing your point to its simplest form. Which this is the arguments simplest form: "Science has flaws therefore it is only logical to believe in a creator which explains numerous things science can't explain." Give it time I'm confident science will reach a point where it refutes religion entirely.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 Dont think you can reduce my point. because I think personally you read until a thought pops into your head and then comment. I NEVER said Science has flaws therefore there MUST be a God. That is Absolute Nonsense. Oh your Confident? WOW you have already judged it when I reduce your reasoning down to its simplest form. Look, Wack jobs go in the bible with a THOUGHT and prove their tought to be true all the time. AND THATS HOW SCIENCE WORKS YOU SAY?? You dont even know what u say
abeeftec 8 months ago
I never even put science and God together. But when people of science think that science is a reason to prove God didnt create the universe I laugh. Because you know how he did it does not mean he did not do it. I resent the fact that you read into anything but if that is how you do science then I can see how you havent figured things out. You must be spending too much time thinking. Ever heard of an Inductive studY? as i said, Wack jobs think things and set out to prove them all the time.
abeeftec 8 months ago
And you are saying that is what Science does? I think they take a subject and look into it. A thought doesnt pop into their head and they set out to prove its true. That is basically moronic to think that is what science does. Science takes a subject and takes what they know to be true no matter how small the point and builds. What YOU do with God is Concretely deny and then set out to prove. Bad MOVE. Because you will NEVER think differently.
abeeftec 8 months ago
When you thinl, " Ah ha! God did not create the rainbow Because its just light passing through water creating a prism effect when it bends and therefore God cannot have created it." I say, " So you just figured out how he did it."
It is a matter of perspective and you better know that there is no way to PROVE God does not exist. Remember, there is an immaterial world which humans are not capable of seeing. So tell me what method will science use to figure things out it cannot see?
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec I have a unicorn; you have no way to PROVE I do not.
Theism for you. Case closed, you're a loonie.
BlckSbthMan 8 months ago
@BlckSbthMan I think I am smarter then the Billions of people who have walked this earth before me...
Arrogant self exaltation for you with a superiority complex. CASE CLOSED...... YOUR A WACK JOB.
abeeftec 8 months ago
and another thing,You cannot prove there is no God. Do you not read the rest of the comments? And again, Making statements using such things that do not exist to make ridiculous of things that science cannot yet explain or explain away is NOT WISE according to your OWN Scientific logic. And further, YOU DO follow hitchens by the very fact that you use HIS STATMENTS. obviously I did not mean YOU FOLLOW HIM AROUND. But I see your not capable of distiguishing figure of speach from direct statment
abeeftec 8 months ago
And YOU mr. BLACK SABATH MAN are a disease to scientific thinking since you follow others and do not know any of what you speak from first hand FACT. I have first hand experience to say what I believe. Your search is only to DISPROVE God. Not inductive to say the least. And starting out with your own desires and then trying to prove it usually leads to LOONIE thinking because if you want to believe something is true. It is not hard to filter out anything else. Whereas I just wanted to know truth
abeeftec 8 months ago
WHERE EVER IT LEAD ME. And I did look into Scientific reasons to say God did not exist. Sorry there is none. So you, and all your self same minded people go against your own laws of education to come to the Conclusion that GOD does Not exist. You just are not capable of seeing that either. So how could you expect in your arrogance that God would show you that he exists? You dont want him to and he will give every man their desire regarding him. So keep it up and earn a ticket to uknowwhere.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec Hahaha, what?!
BlckSbthMan 8 months ago
@BlckSbthMan HAHAHAHAAHAHA HUH? Thats all you got? Nothing else to say? HAHAHHAHAHHAHA DUH! You people are like spots on society believing in some falty science out of desire to continue on as you are being selfish and arrogant so you are now trying to do away with faith and the belief in God as the supposed Natural Evolutionary LOGICAL NEXT STEP. What a bunch of hogwash. Thinking you can push faith out of the world. Now who is believing in Unicorns? Oh, one more thing, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec Uh I do think I can, and I did. Alright so something cannot be created from nothing. (for the sake of your point) the big bang theory says the universe exploded out of nothing (which it doesn't) there is a problem there right? How can the universe come into existence out of nothing? Right , so there is a flaw in the theory correct? So there's a flaw in theory because we don't the knowledge of the universe we need to complete the theory. So again I reduce your point to the same as befor
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 Yes it changed its thinking on that once again because it realized something cannot be created from NOTHING. So it says it was a tiny little whatever, they dont know, But something. Im sorry but I think it is ridiculous to think that there was a little tiny atom sitting there all alone all by itself in the middle of nothingness and it just exploded and created all this. You have no depth of thinking to believe that nonsense. So tell me, What is that area around that atom?
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec And where we come from how we got here and so on I'm going to be honest with you I don't know all of the answers no one does, and I feel anyone who claims to have all the answers (which is essentially what theism does) strikes me as a complete idiot. Like I keep saying the fact that science doesn't have all the answers is not an affirmation of your religion plain and simple. To me it seems like the rational reaction would be to think oh well we better keep studying and learning...
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 Theism simply says AND GOD SAID. and it is not without merit. I never said that something can come from nothing. What I said was that SINCE something Cannot come from nothing.... (the conclusion) Then something must be self sustaining... And in that self be able to bring forth SOMETHING. Because one thing is fact, SOMETHING HAS EXISTED FOREVER WITH NO BEGINNING. Because the fact is that there was ALWAYS SOMETHING. That SOMETHING is GOD. Because before anything was...
abeeftec 8 months ago
as the bible states clearly... I AM. That is very simple to comprehend and with all of mans tries to explain they can never get past the fact that SOMETHING MUST exist Eternally and be self sustaining. ETERNALLY!!!! Can you Fathom this?? NEVER HAVING A BEGINNING!!! And that is FACT!! Do you know how I know that?? Because of the Begats in the Bible. The fact is that if someone begat someone and someone begat someone else then it stands to reason that if you begat far enough back you come to ONE
abeeftec 8 months ago
And when we get to the first then we MUST conclude that he did not Exist on HIS Own. So Where did he come from?? I think time on earth is not as long as science tries to make out. They put the earth at billions of years old because of what reason/??? Did they ever consider that since God is eternal the universe could have been created billions of years ago but man was not here that long? NO! Why? Because they dont want to conclude that. Proven Science I agree with. Too many Hypothesis are made
abeeftec 8 months ago
that become UNPROVEN. And I will not allow science to say something is Fact because they dont want God to exist. Evolution, UNPROVEN. Mutations, PROVEN. That does not mean evolution is true because of Mutations. And please tell me why it is that science will say that a MUTANT means we are moving in a positive direction? OH i know they will say that those mutant people are just DNA that forgot that we were past that!! STUPID!!! Thats NOT fact.. ITS SPECULATION. And its untrue.
abeeftec 8 months ago
But if you want to believe it because someone you esteem smarter then yourself says it then you STILL cannot call it FACT. IT IS A BELIEF NO DIFFRENT THEN WHAT I BELIEVE. Because If what I believe in your eyes is UNPROVABLE then your believe Still unproven IS A BELIEF. Now if you want to stay on what we do KNOW is fact then please dont bring up things that are SPECULATION. Evolution IS speculation. PERIOD. It is NOT proven.
abeeftec 8 months ago
And the very fact that JAY RICHARDS Concedes that the two can be agreeable shows he DENIES what the bible claims of God CREATING MAN FROM THE DUST OF THE GROUND AND BREATING THE BREATH OF LIFE INTO HIS NOSTRILS!!! Evolution in its MOST RECENT state Can agree with that if you do not go past bent over man. But since you CANNOT and are not willing to look past bent over man to see that there is NO OTHER beyond it then you mistakingly are calling Evolution fact because you see others say it is
abeeftec 8 months ago
And dont try to say that I dont understand because I DO. I put this in SIMPLE form using PLAIN Speach instead of using words everyone does not know because most who will read this DO NOT STUDY for themselves. A problem I will admit that MOST SO CALLED CHRISTAINS fall into. Because they want to trust their pastor. And of course people have a predisposition to laziness. They are not exempt from that. What I see is Athiests just as lazy in areas as they say Christains are calling opinion fact.
abeeftec 8 months ago
What I see is Athiests just as lazy in areas as they say Christains are calling opinion fact. It is NOT fact that man evolved yet because you CANNOT provide the state he was in before the bent over man. And the fact is that NO MATTER how you try to divide the two at one point Man had to come into being. Show me what man was before BENT OVER MAN. Can you do this to prove evolution??? And sure I will agree that does not PROVE the Existance of God. But it does not DISPROVE it either.
abeeftec 8 months ago
What you fail to see in this is that I am not trying to argue that I can PROVE God Exists to YOU. HE will either do that or he will not. And your attitude towards him has much to do with that. Well not entirely, but that is a different subject. I am simply trying to show you that SCIENCE Does NOT give you any reason to DOUBT That God exists OR Negate the shear possibility of it. Therefore YOU OWE IT TO YOURSELF to Investigate Faith. I think you will see that you deal more in Faith in life
abeeftec 8 months ago
I think you will see that you deal more in Faith in life then you do in fact.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec ...not oh we better turn to god.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@abeeftec Here watch this video, Stephen Hawking does a far greater job of making my point than I ever could. The most important part is the quote at the end where he says "the ultimate goal is a complete theory of the universe and we are making good progress."
Great Minds: Stephen Hawking - The Grand Design Of The Universe
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 So because of that quote you believe there is no God? I will get you some astrophysicist that will clearly show you the exact oposite. that a Grand DESIGN screams a GRAND CREATOR. You again are very shallow because you dont want God to be true. You cant have that because you may have to answer for the things you know you have done and the thought that you cannot do anything in private really bothers you because you think your entitled. Us free people tend to feel that way.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 They were not motivated by money. The REAL Christains were POOR and stayed that way. Money was the root of all evil and they divided riches. SURE if you lump in the catholics then SURE you can say they were Motivated by Money. But I know that God has sustained those who are HIS because I am one of them. And I also know that 90 percent of those who say they are Christains are FOOLING THEMSELVES!!! So please do not lump what I say in with them. I will conceed much that they will not.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec "Lump in the Catholics"? If it's not a joke, you're deceiving yourself. A huge amount of Christian dogma, even protestant dogma, was made by various Catholic councils. Hell, even by acknowledging the divinity of Christ you concede your connection with the Catholic tradition. And the what about the protestant megachurches, and end of the world moneymakers? Of course you can say, "well I'm not like them." But if I keep pressing you like this, you'll soon find yourself in a church of 1.
f3ailure 8 months ago
@f3ailure Sorry buddy, But there you go again thinking that Christian was first Catholic. Remember where Catholosism comes from... Constantine. Do not LUMP that's right, DO NOT LUMP People Mistakes in with God. You can Judge People by peoples mistakes. Do not Judge GOD By PEOPLE. And as far as I am concerned. Do not lump Christains in with Catholics. Because catholics NEVER followed the Bible. They used it for power which it is completely against.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec
I said nothing of the sort. I said a huge amount of "Christian dogma, even protestant dogma" comes from the Catholics. That's inarguably true. Aside from your clear misreading of my statements, you follow a bizarre dogma which shows a clear misunderstanding of the basic history of your faith. The bottom line is, all leaders of all faiths have used their power to control the masses. Including whatever flavor of christianity you happen to follow.
f3ailure 8 months ago
@f3ailure you are insane because you dont know why my DOGMA is! And the fact that the BIble has been carried through catholocism for the years it seemed that all real christains had died off while this EVERYONE IS PROCLAIMED CHRISTIAN BY COMING TO THE CHURCH Nonsense called Catholocism SURE it appeared there were no christains there to a real Christains. But of course to someone who doesnt believe at all. They name Christ so they must be the christains. You have no clue of the history of Cathol
abeeftec 8 months ago
@f3ailure Oh one more thing.. I dont follow a FLAVOR of Christianity. There is a huge difference between calling yourself a Penticostal or Baptist, Methodist, To me, I think the Bible sums it up best when Christs says that the Church is NOT to be divided by men. Which is exactly what men do. Through their laziness. And exactly why these new branches keep poping up. They all give God a bad name.And sware they are the real truth. None of them know real truth because they divide before they start
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 And in your estimation of men clearly motivated by power and money... Speaking of Catholics I will grant that is true. However, 1st century Christianity began with the apostles, and ended with going underground and those people gave up everything, Land, livestock, everything. And to say that every Christian is motivated by money is ridiculous because I for one have given it away constantly without question to people that even you would question why. Known drug users as well. WHY!
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 Now your quoting me on things I never said. And then insulting me on that basis. WHERE did i say its a relationship not a religion? The fact is that I personally would never be involved with ORGANIZED religion. I think the real Christians of 1st century did not annouce they were a group, did not take handouts from the government and neither should christains now. Sorry but what you THINK is Christianity is a bunch of people who want to go to church on sunday to be better people.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 See there you go again thinking everyone that SAYS they are a Christian is actually one. There are many who claim to know Jesus when in fact all they really know is the God they made up in their own mind. And of course that God is easy to follow.... He thinks JUST like they do!! "Not everyone who says to me LORD LORD will enter the kingdom of Heaven".. please tell me why you think real Christains would have been confused over Jesus claims with a verse like that one??
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 As far as not being able to disprove God... You don't try to prove a negative. The scientific method works like this. You create a hypothesis, you subject this hypothesis to a number of experiments to attempt to prove the hypothesis. If you cannot prove the hypothesis then you must assume that the hypothesis is wrong. You can't justify the belief in the existence of God by claiming there is no proof that God doesn't exist. But following the scientific method you can conclude that
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 First I never tried to do that. I presented PART of a Logical conclusion I have drawn. I NEVER said that I was using a scientific method for saying God exists because you cant prove he doesnt. You need to stop saying What I did when there is no evidence that I even suggested God exists because there is no proof that he does not exist. I told you there is not enough room here or enough characters to show WHOLE reasons. And you still keep going back to assuming what my arguement is
abeeftec 8 months ago
Before you even know what it is. You may hear somethign that sounds like something you heard before and all of a sudden your quick to give the same canned answer. The fact is that you dont know where i was going what what i said. And what I said was that I have Drawn Rational Conclusions and they are LOGICAL. I gave ONE point and you gave me the whole way science figures out if something is correct. You know,, Your right on how Science draws conclusions. On everything But this subject.
abeeftec 8 months ago
Until you can LISTEN to reason with this subject you will be conditioned to give the same canned answers and explainations to people you misunderstand. And believe me, Your not willing to let anyone explain anything long enough before you speak that same canned answer. Trust and believe that you did not have any basis for telling me how science comes up with fact. Because in this they Wish it away. They do not DIS PROVE EITHER. and dont say that the burden is on me.
abeeftec 8 months ago
Because its not. Its on Christ. And you read and listen to the same people I do on science and Faith. And you draw the conclusion that there is no God based on what You want. Not what evidence there is. Believe me I do not see one scientific reason to say that God does not exist and if you think you see a scientific reason PLEASE EXPLAIN THAT TO ME because I would love to hear one scientist give a reason Based on science, why God does not Exist. And you KNOW you cannot.
abeeftec 8 months ago
Yeah yeah I know the burden is on me... NO, its on Christ and I think he proved it. You can argue the lost books of the Bible and whether there was a J before ESUS in the bible all you want but his Name was YESHUA Sure in some languages. If those are reasons why you think the word is fallible then you never read it with the intention of knowing or not knowing. GOD does witness to those who he determined before the foundation of the world. And YOU cannot say that he has not done that with me.
abeeftec 8 months ago
And why on earth would it be impossible for God to go against the very laws of science that HE MADE!! Sure that does not prove he Exists by saying that. But you say its not rational to think that way.. WHY NOT?? Do irrational things happen on PLANET EARTH?? Do some things seem to be as though they are not?? You cannot EXPLAIN God away no more then you can EXPLAIN him into Existance. This is NOT an issue to PROVE. it is GODS Job to prove. And the wheat will grow with the tares.
abeeftec 8 months ago
There will be those who claim to be spiritual and are not. what they think Spiritual is is really their emotions. But what about the man who does not react according to emotions? Can you say that mans spirituality is emotional?? I would say not. I am not here to DISPROVE science or to say that Science PROVES God exists. I am here to say that EITHER WAY There is NO PROOF EITHER WAY!! And you cannot say there is. Because where you say it PROVES I say all it proves is how God works.
abeeftec 8 months ago
This is NOT a debate that can be WON or an arguement that has an ending. There has been much smarter people then me and you both who have never come to a conclusion... Do you know why the bible says, " The fool says in his heart there is no GOD?" Do you? Because you would have to be a fool to think YOU CAN KNOW IT!! And that verse is still FACT. Because you KNOW you cannot know it!! It is GOD who proves who he is to the hearts of those he wants to. And the others..> He lets perish.
abeeftec 8 months ago
I see far too many people saying, If God is Love HOW can he let babies die, and let deformed people even happen.. How can he allow such Cruel things.. And the Question that is MORE pressing.. which never gets asked is... HOW can God let all the Good things happen to people who are Going to Perish!! But I do know that answer as well. Perspective is What this arguement is about. That is all. And if you try to Say that it is anything else but.. Then you are Violating Scientific thought.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 because there is no irrefutable definitive proof of the existence of a God then logical there is no God. Richards claims that they have proof that SUGGESTS or POINTS to the POSSIBILITY of intelligent design. It is not proof of God it is a vague open to interpretation claim. Clearly Richards' predisposition to religion has lead him to interpret the findings he has made the way he does.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 And what you failt to see is your desire for there NOT to be a God has caused you to be the opposite way. Because you think your view is based in fact and sure some of it is. But the evolution nonsense, I cant see how any of you can really claim that as fact but for any other reason of trying to refute intelligent design. you cannot take a scientific theory and RIP It in two and say the later half is true and still not have any info on the former and sware you dont need it.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec Has it occurred to you that maybe you have come to your conclusions because of your desire to believe in a God? And your view of evolution seems extremely deluded. First off the sole purpose of the theory of evolution is not to disprove creationism. Actually Jay Richards even says evolution and creationism don't have to be opposing ideas (which is funny because I wrote a paper in high school during my theist days that made the same point) You can have a God that created everything and
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 Has it occured to you that you are trying to turn my arguement that you say God does not exist because you do not want him to around on me? And has it occured to you YET that I told you not to use those same arguements you use on every other Christian on me because they do not apply? I DID NOT HAVE SOMETHING BAD HAPPEN TO ME THAT CAUSED ME TO NEED GOD. I became one by FORCE of God. So the whole FREE WILL Thing Christains say is WRONG. we do not have Free will.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec evolution took it from there. So if you think my backing of evolution is caused by my predisposition to theism you are sorely mistaken. And there's a really good reason why evolution is the accepted scientific theory of the origin of species because there is a mountain of evidence to support the theory. Its not some evil conspiracy to keep christians ideals down by the big bad atheists. And also let me point out that the theory of evolution is a theory. Theories are built on over time
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 There is NOT enough evidence to suggest Evolution is truth. It is a stretch. The MOUND of evidence you are referring to is actually evidence that some things can change. It is NO evidence that we are turning from something into something else. The DNA of man is STILL The same. MOST of man is still the same. All you need to do is THINK to know that evolution, as soon as you get to ORIGINS is foolish. This is why Jay looks like an idiot. The Bible is OPPOSED to that view.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec That is just a silly statement. Here, why don't you go do some research on evolution get your facts straight then we'll discuss it. And yeah there most definitely is a mountain of evidence. And your right our DNA has for the most part stayed the same since we evolved into humans good observation :) And since we are on the topic of DNA there is about a 1% difference between human DNA and chimp DNA. Which would make sense considering we both evolved from a common ancestor.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 It is not a silly statement. The fact will ALWAYS remain that if you take origins away from Evolution then you come up with WHERE did man come from and that cannot be avoided. I do not need to look at the facts surrounding evolution if what you mean is that we can remove Origins from it. Because we cannot. You must know that you cannot say we are evolving if you stay within a certain time frame and do not have anything to say about what is before the so called superfamily.
abeeftec 8 months ago
Because you see, The evidence for us evolving is based on slight variations that they see in humans now. To me, there is no proof that man was bent over like a cave man. And what goes on inside the human body now does not show any evidence that we are changing or are a mutant from the same family as monkeys, apes, chimps or any other animal. The fact is we are all indigenous to EARTH so of course we have similarities but our DNA is not ONE percent different then chimps. That is not fact.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec as we learn more. So again given time the holes in the theory you cling to will be filled and your argument will no longer exist.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 Thats funny, I feel the same about yours. Just look at the facts again and ask yourself every time.. IS IT POSSIBLE that this has nothing to do with man going from a one celled Organism and changing into a full fledged human with sexual organs to reproduce by other means. And every time you see that it is hogwash. And evolution MUST have a beginnin like that or else it fails to be. Because man did not happen IN THE BIG BANG. He did not just happen during the explosion.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec Is it possible? Sure its possible just like its possible as far as you know I'm not actually a human I'm 3 ducks in a man costume. You don't seriously think we were one celled organisms one day and modern humans the next day do you? Are you intentionally misrepresenting facts to support your own conclusions or were you just mislead by someone else misrepresenting facts? Evolution is backed by facts and evidence while creationism is backed by a questionable book and a guy with a funny
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 No I do not think that we were ever One celled organisms at all. And no I know you dont think that it happened in one day. To the contrary you think it happened over billions of years which still poses an ENORMOUS Intelectual problem. But I dont expect you to see that at all because you refuse to use your intelect to see it. If you would like an explaination as to the foolishness of your thinking I will most certainly Oblige
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec 4 Billion years to be exact... and where's this intellectual problem cause your right I don't see it.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 You cannot see that it takes man and woman to reproduce and the one celled Organism can only reproduce itself? Where did this thing Grow to have a Penis and Vagina and reproduce differently then only able to reproduce itself. You see that no matter what you say," OVER BILLIONS OF YEARS" or Gradually, or we dont know. You cannot change the fact that at ONE POINT the CELLS would have had to stop reproducing themselves and Started reproducinig as we do now.
abeeftec 8 months ago
only other option is that it/he/she was able to reproduce BOTH ways at one point in this way of thinking.Because if it could not reproduce BOTH ways then it would had died off in the transaction somewhere and we would not be!! Man cannot live past even 140 years let alone hundreds of thousands.So your saying that the One celled Organism reproducing itself over hundreds of thousands of years Made a change to include another group of cells and a brain to know that the other group was attractive?
abeeftec 8 months ago
Is this what you speculate? OR do you have a better theory of possibility?? Because as much as I have thought on it there is no way to reconcile the direct Contradiction that man cannot live inside of himself and MUST DIE therefore he would have died off. YET you could say that during some period there was every Group of changes on earth at one time. But still in order to get there the ones that are as we are now WOULD HAVE TO HAVE GROWN TO AS WE ARE NOW or he just appeared?
abeeftec 8 months ago
No matter how you slice it... The changes that would have needed to take place from the organism to the way reproduction happens now, if in fact it happened over millions of years as you say, Would have caused the extinction of either the organism OR MAN. because at one point he would had to have started to grow diffrent ways of reproduction which over that many years would not had been enough to reproduce while in the making. So this Quasi half man being would be reproducing by osmosis.
abeeftec 8 months ago
I mean, that is the ridiculousness of that thinking. NO WAY he ever had BOTH ways of reproducing. I cannot say this any better because it is so simple to me to clearly see how it is not possible. But if you cant see it now then I cant help you anymore. Think about this subject and Length of time, Reproduction, how its possible even in theory. IT Does not add up to LOGIC.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec hat. And evolution is hogwash? I don't even know what to say to that, but luckily it speaks for itself.
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 There you go again with no proof and trying to make it appear as if it is foolish to say evolution is not fact because some scientists SAY it is fact., I dont care what they say. Until they can prove it with facts it is NOT FACT. As I said before, The evidence does not support fact. It supports changes sure but it does NOT support that man came from a one celled organism. And when you see that us coming from one celled organisms is foolish then the rest of evolution will be too
abeeftec 8 months ago
You do know that they are making certain assumptions to say Evolution is fact dont you? The first asserted assumption is that man was something before man and soon will be something else! That is NONSENSE.
As I said before, as soon as you remove Orgins from WHAT MAN IS TODAY to call it fact then you prove what your intended Goal is. TO PUSH evolution as truth to befuddle people. YOU CANNOT SEPERATE THE TWO LOGICALLY and call one side PROVEN fact of the other side. There is a LARGE GAP missing.
abeeftec 8 months ago
A Gap of supposed BILLIONS of years of Growth!! And without that Gap filled you are stuck with a one celled organism on one side...... And a Bent over man that resembles a chimp on the other. And trying to say that you can PROVE beyond a shadow of doubt that both are true is a total contradiction because NO WAY we could have ever survived from ONE CELL reproducing itself to a Total Being reproducting with another being. Somewhere man would have died off in that thinking.
abeeftec 8 months ago
But you do not see that because you can follow what other men tell you but you cannot think logically on your own. very sad really that you cannot see that even if man could have lived THOUSANDS of years Long ago he could NEVER had made that Change from a cell that reproduces itself to a man having intercourse with a woman and creating another person. That is SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE!!! he would had died off entirely before knowing that a change took place in his reproductive nature
abeeftec 8 months ago
AND please tell me when he grew the brain to be stimulated towards the woman group of cells? you see, to me what you are saying is that at one point in time, Man could have SELF reproduced or had intercourse with a woman to reproduce. Sounds like something a movie could be made about... OH I forgot, they did make a movie about that.... GREMLINS ;)
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec No I am saying it is foolish to believe in a book that makes absurd claims. And it is foolish to say the bible is fact because some guy in a church says its fact. I don't care what they say. Until they prove it with facts it is not fact. I hope I clearly portrayed the irony of your above statement. Ok so let me clarify this you say the evidence supports changes but it doesn't support that we came from single celled organisms. So if I understand what you mean by changes ...
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 no no, Dont try to say what you think I mean by changes. Because I am sure it will be foolish what you will say... I believe that the changes are possible without changing what we are. I do not mean,,, some day we will have another leg or someday we will have 7 fingers. ALL OF US. and I do not believe because some guy in a church says so. THAT is what you think a Christain is and I already told you and am saying again. I DO NOT listen to ORGANIZED RELIGION.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 You know I would say the same thing if it was not for the fact that I was shown Salvation before I ever read the book. I believe too it would be foolish to say that the Bible is fact JUST because some man in a church says so. But THEY dont need to PROVE It to you. I would think that your life means a little more to you then to waive it off as nonsense before a thorough investigation of it. Which if you had done you would know that the Bible tells how God will show you.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 they are only absurd if there is no God
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec .. then essentially what these changes are is the process of evolution and natural selection. (And its not some scientists who say evolution is right its Im going to speculate 99% of them and even Jay Richards seems to support the idea of evolution.) It only makes sense that one would ask the question what is the first common ancestor. What was the organism from which all life originated. The prevailing theory (let me reiterate theory) is that the first common ancestor was ...
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 I do NOT believe those changes are the process Of evolution in that those changes are in the same scope of changes that happened from BILLIONS of years ago from a one celled organism becoming whatever we supposedly will be billions of years from now. I think those changes can be classified as IMMUNO or Mutational. Meaning, a Part of the negative pole of humanities fall. I do NOT ever see mutations creating something super human but always a mutation causes a DEFECT.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec mu·ta·tion
–noun
1. Biology . a.a sudden departure from the parent type in one or more heritable characteristics, caused by a change in a gene or a chromosome. b.an individual, species, or the like, resulting from such a departure.
2.the act or process of changing.
3.a change or alteration, as in form or nature.
Where does it say defect in the definition?
So what do you listen to unorganized religion?
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 I did not say the Definition of Mutation is DEFECT. I said there has NEVER been a Mutation in HUMANS that caused anything POSITIVE. It always is a defect. NEVER anything positive. So we would be DEVOLVING. Not EVOLVING based on ANY Mutation we have saw in Natural man.
abeeftec 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 And I have sincerely tried to follow Organized religion and when I see these people making errors on the bible and not willing to be corrected but also not having an answer for why they believe what they do. I know that it is time to follow Jesus for what the Bible says and not what people heard from their pastors pastors pastors and handed the same nosense down from Generation to Generation not every questioning them or finding error. Because To me, ERROR is due to laziness.
abeeftec 8 months ago
It did NOT destroy my faith because my faith in God is due to what God has shown me in life about him, The world, Peoples motives, the negative pole on humanity, The light he has shown me in regards to his creation, and how so complex it is, the wonder of it all, and not to mention how far he has shown me of things eternal. Which I am sorry but most, and this includes you, CANNOT see. Which is why you would fall for something like groups of mutated cells eventually becoming what we are today.
abeeftec 8 months ago
Talking with you shows me just how much you assume things and how you take what someone says who has an opposing view from you and try to make it sound ridiculous using arguements you heard somewhere else and have not really looked into them yourself with an open mind but when you see anything scientific you dont look for God. You look to disprove him. And that is why you will never see him.It is an arrogant stand to take.And it may cost you your soul if you dont leave a door open to possibility
abeeftec 8 months ago
@abeeftec OOOOh god shows you things ok that changes everything. Does he speak to you too, do you hear voices?
Plagueis1017 8 months ago
@Plagueis1017 You are very funny. Nice attempt at trying to make me look like a loon. But it will not work. Again, You have nothing else to say so you insult. NEVER have I insulted you personally. I have simply spoke on the arguements. But you MUST do that because you feel like in doing so you will appear to be the wiser. To me I know why you do it. IT makes you feel superior. And God does show me things. And NO not with Audible voices. Over time, I get answers to the questions you ask.
abeeftec 8 months ago
It takes a long time and I used to be incapacitated from these very questions and NO ONE could offer answers to them. I fought off agreeing with God for years. I came to learn that God is there, and there is irrefutable FACT in my life that he does have his hand in the affairs of my life. I CAN TRUST HIM AND HIS JUDGEMENTS. ( I know when you see that word you think NEGATIVE). I am MOST hard headed and more then likely harder headed then you. The difference is this......
abeeftec 8 months ago
I would not STOP until I had answers of a satisfactory nature never accepting what anyone said but looking into it with all due dilligence not being for or against anything. YOU onthe other hand MUST look into it with a negative mind set trying to look for something to disprove. It is amazing how the human mind in its negative pole wants so badly to be able to continue with its selfishness and GOD COMPLEX towards himself. Because that is what you suffer from. You want to BE GOD of your life.
abeeftec 8 months ago