Calvinism has God "playing chess against himself." The devil is just another tool in God's hand, carrying out "God's will." Sinful intellectual pride leads to abysmal, crippling mental confusion. Believers in this doctrine have sometimes literally lost their minds trying to make sense of it all, and a few of them have actually committed suicide.
For WHAT PURPOSE would Jesus warn us in Mark 9:42/ Matt.18:6 about being an [Immediate] CAUSE of Sin for those little ones who believe in him to Sin, when Calvinism says GOD is the ULTIMATE CAUSE of ALL SIN & ULTIMATE SOURCE DETERMINING whether one of his little ones DOES or does NOT Sin?
According to Calvinism, who CAUSALY DETERMINES that little ones who believe in him WILL SIN?
"God, but man is 2be blamed, how this works is a MYSTERY"
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather OUT of HIS Kingdom ALL CAUSES of SIN and all law-breakers, & throw them into the FIERY FURNACE.
Are Calvinists declaring Jesus will kick GOD, the "ULTIMATE CAUSE of ALL SIN" OUT of HIS own Kingdom as well!?
"Its a Paradox! A MYSTERY!!"
Its a FULL-BLOWN Scriptural & Logical CONTRADICTION you Gnostic-Centered, Stiff-Necked,Holy Spirit Resisting FOOL!
@Povidential1611 "Arminians say AMEN--Calvinists scream INABILITY! LOL
Look at these sinners, trying to patrol the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD, quoting each other, parroting each other, what a shame. "God is the ULTIMATE CAUSE of Sin" according to Gordon H. Clark... Stoic Philosophers came up with that 2000 years ago.. solomon was right, "There's NOTHING NEW under the Sun, its all VANITY"... indeed, calvinism is a Chasing after the wind! What a foolish way to end ones life, chasing after the wind.
@Isaiah1v18 They also chase their own tail. I have watched this over and over and over and over. Surely it was a Calvinist who wrote the following "Non-contradictory, mystery" of a jingle:
"YOU have hidden these things from the Wise & prudent..." Amen!
Hidden from the scribes and Pharisees, vainly puffed up by their fleshly minds, having foolish hearts darkened, refusing to submit to the righteousness of God, "wise" according to the world's estimation of wisdom, 1 Cor. 1:26-27.
Ah, yes, the incessant "context hopping" of the Deterministic Party, "He-Chose-Me-Not-You-Soli-Deo- Gloria-Make-Believe-Gnostic-Centered-Doctrines-of-Damnation" is truly amazing.
@R1K2G3 The calvinist has the GALL to bring up logic, or pretend he follows it??? calvinism is the very essence of illogic. Calvinism teaches men how to become experts in double-talk while asserting utterly contradictory and irrational ideas, with blasphemy as well. When one enters a Calvinist room, no matter how logical he may be in every other realm of thought, he leaves his logic at the door. Its a prerequisite
These Cavinists have a Double Standard, & they send sinners on a "Fools Errand", a "Catch-22".
By commading "repentance" to those that are DEAD, they demand them to REGENERATE themselves & REPENT, which they themselves consider IMPOSSIBLE without GODs SOVEREIGN WILL & Decree , then DAMN them FOREVER for not obeying, AS IF they THEMSELVES could ever repent without GODs SOVEREIGN WILL & DECREE & call it 'Justice'.
This calvinism/gnostic deity "commands" people to obey, but has SOVEREIGNLY DECREED for them to disobey to BURN them FOREVER, who purposed their DAMANTION in his mind & heart from the FOUNDATION of the WORLD, "BEFORE they were born or had done anything either good or bad" for "His GOOD pleasure" to "Glorify Himself", then tries to justify his deception under the illusion that they're going to hell for their Self Determined choices of sin.
"Free will": The power of contrary choice, or, the ability to do otherwise.
In order for one to know for certain that their choices are not determined by any external, or internal factors (including God Himself), would require one to know every cause and effect in the universe. Thus, the proponents of "free will" (an unbiblical notion; yea, even satanic) are logically claiming OMNISCIENCE (an attribute that belongs to God alone).
@R1K2G3 This is a smokescreen based on unBiblical philosophic sophisty. Nothing unBiblical about free-will and no our assertions about it DO NOT lead to claiming omniscience--the Calvinist needs to put the crack-pipe down, sober up and end all the hallucinations. Making stuff up is not exegesis of the Scripture.
@Providential1611 "To be conscious of free will therefore requires omniscience. Hence there is no consciousness of free will; what its exponents take a consciousness of free will is simply the unconsciousness of determination [or, "divine determinism"]"
[Gordon H. Clark, (works) v.4, p.262].
Dr. Clark was absolutely correct in his assessment of the fallacious notion of "free will".
The Bible does not teach the synergistic notion of "free will".
@R1K2G3 "Dr." Clark was a philospher, not a soul-winner or exegete of Scripture. This type of drivel is just that. His pontifications are not fact. Who cares what he says. The Bible says differently. Period. The Bible teaches SYNERGISM from beginning to end, ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE HUMAN WILL. Period.
@Providential1611 I keep noticing that you cannot refute anything I have said with an actual, substantive argument.
Usually when people resort to such emotional responses, it's because they have not thought through their own position deeply enough (nor have sought out what the Bible actually teaches about the issue), and therefore, they cannot respond accordingly.
I'll give you time to reflect on your position...and I honestly hope, and pray that you do.
@R1K2G3 Actually, you just described all your comments. My video has all the proof anyone needs, and you certainly have had no substantive response to my points therein. As for thinking deeply or seeking out what the Scripture says--surely you jest.
@Providential1611 "At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that YOU have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children.." (Mt.11:25, ESV).
The Calvinist says, "Amen!", to this passage; while the synergist (committing idolatry in worshiping at the throne of "free will") would rather delete this passage from the God-breathed Scriptures.
@R1K2G3 The Calvinist doesn't care about CONTEXT, which tells us WHY truths are hidden from certain people and not from others. You are "Amening" Calvinsim, not Christianity. Christ reveals truth to those who become like little children--SOMETHING THEY MUST DECIDE TO DO--FREELY. When we DO THAT, revelation comes. Those who are proud shall be brought low, but the humble shall be lifted up. SO SIMPLE. Arminians say AMEN--Calvinists scream INABILITY! LOL
@Providential1611 If man is "Totally Depraved" making it IMPOSSIBLE for them to understand & to know that Jesus is the Christ, without Gods IRRESISTIBLE FORCE (Grace), why is it then possible for DEMONS who sin & do the work of Satan, to "KNOW" (Lk.4:34) that Jesus is Lord? You're left w/ one of two possibilities-
1. People are MORE wicked than Demons. Or
2. Demons were Regenerated & born of God to "KNOW" that Jesus is Lord.
@Isaiah1v18 Of course, the demons were created before humans, and they knew their Creator...as they do to this day.
Demons are never regenerated by God; this does not mean that they don't have the same (if not more) "general revelation" of God than fallen mankind has (cf.Rom.1:18-22). Total Inability:
Jn.6:44 "no one can come to me (Jesus; in saving faith)..." "Can"--(Gk. δύναται, dynatai) means: to show ability (power); able (enabled by God), empowered.
@R1K2G3 Don't mess around with John too much. he used the same word when he said that those born of God CANNOT sin--same word--inability. So as long as you will be CONSISTENT, you must ALSO LOUDLY PROCLAIM sinless perfection. If you refuse to accept 1John 3:9 with your defintion, then don't give me any garbage about John 6. Neither one of them teaches inability due to NATURE, but do to CHOICE. If men refuse to listen(John 6), they CANNOT COME.
@R1K2G3 Not so. Calvinism is not hard to understand, it is impossible for any rational, morally honest person to believe. It violates Scripture and our God given reason, intuition, conscience, etc. Calvinism appeals to the pride in man. I understand Calvinism quite well.
And has not the fall affected our "God given reason, intuition, conscience, etc."?
Or do you not believe in original sin, thus following the Pelagian heresy? (cf. Rom.5:12-14, for the doctrine of original sin).
Indeed, God alone is reasonable, rational, and logical...fallen human beings are not! Hence, the necessity of the special revelation contained in Holy Writ. Soli Deo Gloria!
@R1K2G3 So fallen man cannot reason 1+1=2? Fallen man has written textbooks on logic, the laws of logic, using reason correctly, etc. Do I believe Rom. 5 describes Adam's original sin? Yes. Do I believe that makes it synonymous with Calvin's doctrine of Total Depravity? Uh--no. One does not prove the other. Total Depravity is a false doctrine.
@Providential1611 Wow! Talk about the exaltation of fallen man's abilities to reason! Amazing! Mathematical equations are due to studying God's creation, they have nothing to do with spiritual truth. And to what extent did "original sin" affect Adam's progeny?
(btw, Original sin has to do with mankind's sin nature as inherited from Adam; not Adam's first sin).
@R1K2G3 I exalted NOTHING. I simply STATED FACTS. As far as the "sin-nature"...there is no such term, nor the attending Calvinistic concepts behind that term in the Bible.n I'm sure that will shock you, as it did me when I finally realized that many things I was taught and took for granted were not quite what the Bible said. Man did not lose his WILL. God welcomed Cain AFTER rejecting him and said "if you do well, won't you be accepted?" Rhetoical question. Cain COULD HAVE
DONE WELL. This is obvious. Then he is told that sin desires him, but he must master it. RIDICULOUS ADVISE if the man is totally depraved as Calvinists claim. Cain wasn't. Sin was crouching AT THE DOOR, it did not control him. Cain could GO TO GOD and be accepted if he did "well". This is what God said and no matter how badly the Calvinist TWISTS John 6>44 and Rom 8, which say NOTHING about Total Depravity or Original Sin, Cain was ABLE to come to God.
@R1K2G3 Man's volitional sinfulness is laid out in Rom 3, NOTHING ABOUT some "sinful nature". That expression is unBiblical. Man's will is "free"n by the very defintion of the word "will". FREEWILL and VOLUNTARY WILL are Bible termns. Your denials are PREPOSTEROUS. Imperatives are COMMANDS. Simple. Cain COOULD come to God, was encouraged to even after doing wrong, and was told to Master sin coming from the OUTSIDE. SO much for Total Depravity. Is is a MYTH
@fractalfires1 The very definition of will implies freedom to choose. The fact God uses terms like FREE-WILL and Voluntary will is because He knew Calvinism was coming one day, and chose those two words to reinforce the truth. Amazingly, Calvinists still resist this BLATANT EFFORT on the part of the Lord to make the truth plain.
@Providential1611 No Calvinist denies that man has a "voluntary will" (which means that men willingly do what they desire).
We deny that man has "the power of CONTRARY CHOICE", or, "the ability to choose other than what one actually chooses". You're simply reading your traditions into Scripture, and using your satanic, fallen nature as the basis for your "exegesis" (which in reality is "eisegesis").
Bad theology leads to bad doxology...think about it.
@R1K2G3 Yes, you deny the REAL MEANING of the word will, as found in the Bible, the words used in Hebrew, Greek and the English. To say man has a will IS TO AUTOMATICALLY CONCEDE he has the power of contrary choice OR....man has no will. Only a Calvinist can hold to absurd contradictions and redefine words as found NOWHERE IN ANY DICTIONARY OR LEXICON OF ANY LANGUAGE. It is truly stuff the carnal mind just MAKES UP.
@fractalfires1 "among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by NATURE children of wrath, like the REST OF MANKIND" (Eph.2:3, ESV).
"Nature"-- (Gk. φύσει, physei) means: properly, inner nature, the underlying constitution or make-up of someone (something); growth (by germination or expansion), (by implication) natural production (lineal descent).. ie. "original sin".
@R1K2G3 You defined the word nature perfectly. This does NOT mean as you interpret the verse that people are born sinners or that their nature is sinful.
The question is WHY does Paul say we were 'by nature children of wrath'. It is because 'we all once lived in the passions of the flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind'.
The term 'by nature' refers to 'by nature OF... having lived in the passions, etc.'
@R1K2G3 hopefully this is simple enough. I found the phrase 'by nature' used frequently in similarly worded phrases, 'He enjoyed athletics, liked people and was by nature an optimist' 'who cared little for any advertisement, and was by nature aloof.' etc.
It is a summary of the person's custom, character or disposition, rather than a statement pertaining to PHYSICS or birth.
No, I really hope this is simple enough for you. May God bless you.
If you're a born-again Christian -- we worship Jesus - not man and man's free will. So, we should go to the Word of God to understand PREDESTINATION. There is no reason to protest Predestination. It's quite FAIR and JUST. Jesus says on the last day for the damned to go into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. The damned ARE THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. Jesus called Judas a devil. They're DEVILS -- predestined to damnation because they are the angels who fell.
Lastly, And only God knows the real truth in which doctrine will turn out to be 100% God-inspired truth, without error. We will probably only be introduced to the perfect "religion"/"doctrine" when we meet before God Himself on Judgement day. I advise you all to be very careful. The devil can be deceiving even you, throwing off your entire understanding, using 5 scriptures scattered thruout the bible, to do it..
@motiv8m Yes on that Day we will see clearly, and not through a glass darkly. But there are many things clearly revelaed in Scripture, nature and reason, and there are things that are doctrines of devils. Five Scriptures is all it takes to expose Calvinism as the pagan philospohical fraud that pretends to be the doctrine of God. It is NOT, but the doctrines of devils who cause men to blaspheme.
@Providential1611 Men blaspheme because it is their nature to do so as children of the devil and devils themselves. That men blaspheme in response to God being Sovereign and on His Throne -- is just the the devil in them and themselves as devils themselves. We expect devils to protest God on His Throne. Like Satan, all devils want God's Throne and hate His Sovereign Rule.
Third, Christians need to discontinue referring to other religious beliefs as teachings of devils unless they can prove every Christian religion wrong. You're skating on thin ice referring to the possible works of God as the work of the devil. This is unforgivable..
@motiv8m Third, Christians need to refer to obvoius doctrines of devils as such-1Tim. 4:1-5, and the idea that one must disprove every sect and denomination first is as irrational and ludicrist as it is unScriptural. I am not on thin ice in objecting to the fact that Calvinists ascribe to God that which is clearly the works and ideas of the Devil. Like Wesley said to the Calvinists of his day "He is a sovereign God, not a sovereign devil
@motiv8m Second, most comments like yours here forget that Jude told us to earnestly contend for the faith, and Paul said there are times to rebuke sharply, so that people will be sound in the faith. Paul disputed DAILY in the temples whether Jesus was the Christ
First off, I dont like this video. Your disrespectful tone is the condescending, typical cocky arrogance that is the exact opposite of how Christ taught.
@motiv8m first off, I don't your comments. Your disrepsectful tone is the condescending, typica cocky arrogance that is the exact opposite of how Christ taught.
The whole point of Calvinism is to cause lost people to stay lost and for saved people to doubt their salvation. They are depraved devils and know NOTHING of God's love, grace and salvation!
In Calvinism, God Purposely Decreeds for Man to come into Existance DEAD, INVOLUNTARILY created to love SIN from the moment of conception, having NO ABILITY to repent or beg for mercy, the vast majority FATED for DAMNATION, PREDESTINED to burn forever, CHOSEN for Eternal Punishment, "Before having done anything either good or bad" for "His good pleasure" with a ZERO chance of Salvation.
"O how BEAUTIFUL are the feet of those Calvinist who preach the good news!"
By saying we have free will makes Jesus like a human feeding squirrels with acorns where you hold out your hand hoping the squirrel will come take the acorn and then the squirrel turns around and takes off oh shucks lost another one. Man that makes Jesus look rather helpless. Come on don't put God in a box, that makes our maker look rather small for someone who is EVERYTHING. Why do you want free will anyway, so you can boast about coming to Christ. Sound like your giving yourself power.
The problem here is that with having free will we undermine Gods characteristics if God is all knowing then by having free will and coming to Christ would have the ability to surprise God but since God is all knowing that cannot happen, basically then we are saying Gods plan is left up to chance and could fail. but then who would want to serve a God that can fail. God is far to great to fail.
@Theroyalone20 Yes it has "sense" of you believe God has complete knowledge of the future and all decisions every person makes. Perhaps you can elaborate on what you are driving at so I can be sure I understand where you are coming from?
I want to leave with a couple verses of scripture which directly signafies election. Rom. 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son... Rom 8:30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. Here is a list of other verses I advise you to look up before you further your argument on free will: Matt 24:22,24,31 Mk 13:20,22,27 Rom 9:11 Rom 11:7,28 2Tim 2:10 Ti 1:1 1Pt 1:1
I would like you to study the opposition and not to blind yourself of the Truths of scripture, I pray that God may open your mind to the Truth and show his devine characteristics which never have and never wil change, as God has done to me, in which I am truly thankful for and pray to comfort your discomfort on the Truth of election. I am fairly certain you believe in free will due to your discomfort with the subject of election especially living your whole life believing you had free-will.
I understand the difficulty to accept the idea of Election, when I first came to know Christ I struggled immensely with this and I tried every which way to prove our free-will but as I studied scripture to prove my case I came across evidence of election over and over again and then in order to prove my case on free-will I would have had to be completely ignorant of the Truths of scripture. My quest for comfort in free-will completely backfired on me and I could not deny God's election.
@torvasal1 Sorry, I don't want to debate, but, what this verse have to do with The Creator answering to men?
"A man that is an heretike, after the first and second admonition, reiect:" (Tt 3:10)
Are you iliterate or simply have no idea what you're talking about - one of those you are for sure.
That verse is about HERETICS, reborn or false reborn ones that sinned and don't want to get back to The Creator 'cause they believe that they're NOT dead, like calvinists believe to be.
To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon
This guy is extremely arrogant.In order to be right he has put us in Gods place. Offering up Christ on the cross for our own redemption.Christ is the lamb of God not the lamb of sinners.I am thankful that I depend on God not myself for the sacrifice.There is none that doeth right none that SEEKETH GOD! That's NT I'll stick with the NT. Perhaps since you rely on the OT over the NT you should convert to Judaism. Really you should get into the NT first then understand the OT. U proved nothing
Yes God offered the lamb of His own free will.By your assertion we offered Christ as a sacrifice."God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy" says Rom 9. Thats a real Bible verse.You claim freewill is in the Bible but you don't show that it has to do with Christianity.You had to go all the way back to Lev. The old law and its backwards at that, you have us offering up Christ as payment for our own sins.Abraham was chosen of God just like Moses, David, Peter, & Paul against his own will
Actually, nowhere in the NT does it say those Levitical offerings were foreshadowing people coming to Christ. You dreamed that up. It does say that they foreshadowed Christ, so if anything Lev 1:3 should remind us of John 10:17-18, Phil 2:6-8.
@patrckhh20 In Lev One GOD ALMIGHTY says man has HIS OWN voluntary will. Calvinists say man DOES NOT. God says men are to come to him ONLY of THEIR OWN VOLUNTARY WILL, Calvinists say man can't do that. Hmmmmn...who do we believe?
@Providential1611 Calvinists do believe men have wills, but their wills can't transcend the limits of their nature. You are trying to force your theology on Lev 1. The fact is, depending on the reason for the sacrifice, the priest had to follow different laws, for ex.: Lev 7:12, 16. It is not the intention of Lev to teach us about the nature of the will. Even if a sacrifice was brought voluntarily, how do you know it wasn't with sinful motivations? Or that the bringer was not regenerate?
@patrckhh20 Paul said ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable for doctrine. And the fact is we have GOD HIMSELF SPEAKING. It doesn't matter what book it is in, when its a THUS SAITH THE LORD, then we better listen up.
@Providential1611 You totally ignored my argument, and are still ignoring the context and intent of Leviticus. 2 Tim 3:16 does not give you the license to twist the Scripture into your Arminianism.
@patrckhh20 People like this will always go to the OT to drag out some obscure verse from the old law (bondage according to Christ)in order to avoid the truth of election/adoption found throughout the NT.I have yet to see a politician elect themselves or an orphan adopt themselves."If any be ignorant let them be ignorant."I believe that the rebirth is a supernatural occurrence and any who think it was their own doing after being shown Rm. 9 Eph. 1, Jn 6 etc are very stiff necked or not reborn
@Providential1611 Kardecists, calvinists, jehovah witnesses, adventists, mormons, romanists, protestants, all have another Master, another one between them and The Creator besides to The Messiah - they deny, but they do that. So, exactly like all jews that saw Jesus, heard Him, saw those miracles and all Scriptures fullfiled and did not seen WHO was there right in front of them - they preffered the Temple, The Law, the tradition, the earthly, human, animal, demonish logic knowlegement...
@patrckhh20 He's saying that we offered up Christ as our own sin offering. He's not the Lamb of God but our own lamb that we apparently "prepared a body for" our own sin offering. Shoot, he doesn't even need God or His Lamb as long as we stay out of the New Testament that is. Which he seems to be quite proficient in.
In Greek there's no word for "whosoever" the Greek terms translated whosoever could better be translated "believing-ones" it's not that whoever decides to change his own heart to believe in Him should not perish; But that the believing ones (ones that believe) should not perish.
You say that God wants to save everyone, but the Bible teaches that God gets what he wants. If God wants every single person saved and many perish then you are saying God FAILED to save them.
@Providential1611 No sir... hina is a conjunction and it means "that" or "in order that" it means- denoting purpose, aim, or goal.
For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son - hina (that, in order that) pas (all, every) ho (the) pisteuOn (one-believing) = that all the believing ones.
There's no way to get anyone, who, or whosoever. This passage isn't about who has the ability to believe, just that "all believers will have eternal life".
@Providential1611 According to your rational God WANTS EVERYONE saved, every single person ever, and if...
1) the Father created the universe and man, and
2) sent His only Son to live the perfect live, die on the cross, and be resurrected, and
3) then the Holy Spirit came to convict all men and draw all men unto Christ...
and "They fail to get saved" that means that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit did everything in their power to save and yet they've failed to save those who are perishing.
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, HOW OFTEN WOULD I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!
Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
@Providential1611 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, (Mat 23:2 ESV)
- He warns his disciples not to imitate their hypocrisy and pride. He exhibits a charge against them for divers crimes, corrupting the law, opposing the gospel, and treacherous dealing both with God and man; and each charge prefixed with woe.
- He passes sentence upon Jerusalem, and foretels the ruin of the city and temple, especially for the sin of persecution (v. 34-39).
@Providential1611 Is 65:1-2 Paul told us what was the event they pointed at and were fulfilled in, the calling in of the Gentiles and the rejection of the Jews, by the preaching of the gospel, Rom. 10:20, 21. And he observes that herein Isaiah is very bold, not only in foretelling a thing so improbable, but in foretelling it to Jews, who would take it as a gross affront to their nation, and therein Moses's words would be made good, I will provoke you to jealousy by those that are no people.
You actually made the statement "God is just, God is good" in the same sentence with the statement "He (God) is not holding their sin against them"?!?!
How could God be just if He didn't punish unrepentant sinners?
You've got a really warped understanding of the attributes of God!
@Bill244888 Actually I don't . You just don't know the Bible. Behold:
18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
God is not imputing, or COUNTING their sins against them but offers reconciliation instead. Praise God!
And your god is just who does not punish unrepentant sinners?
Psalm 7:11 "God is a righteous judge, and a God who has indignation every day."
Isa. 11:4 "But with righteousness He (Christ) will judge the poor, and decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; and He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked."
You can't twist the words to fit your theology. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, . . ." (completed)
It doesn't say God was "offering" reconciliation.
Taking this passage as you've stated, how can you arrive at anything but universalism?
God reconciled "the world" (which you claim means everyone), and He did not "impute their sins against them". Their sins are removed and they are reconciled to God.
Voila, Universalism! Sounds like Rob Bell theology to me.
@Bill244888 His stumbling block is that like other,God would never send anyone to hell,emotionally led people,he rejects Romans 9 "some unto honor and some unto dishonor.He also doesn't understand this world (of which satan is god) and the world to come (of which Christ is God). If God so loved this world why is he sending some to hell? Because He doesn't love this world but the one to come with the elect.Christ said this world will hate you as it hated me.God doesnt love satans world,sorry
Cain had no right to be angry with God. His guilt was on himself for his disobedience.
He was just like all men prior to God sovereignly saving them . . . "as it is written: 'None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.'" Rom. 3:10-12 (ESV)
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT please God."
If man has free will to turn to God prior to God drawing him, then why doesn't he just obey Him in the first place, then he wouldn't need to be saved?
"Sovereignty of God is not a bible term" - neither is trinity, so I suppose you don't believe in that one either.
Also at the begining when you "proved" that we have free will you proved that we have free will over everyday stuff (like deciding to make an offering to the Lord) not over salvation (which is what alot of calvinists already believe).
your saying that God is a unknowing, mistake making god in saying that He wants everyone to be saved because that means that God wants but can't cause, that He's not omnipotent or omniscient, and that you can out wit God. I think not! but who cares what I think . . . it's unbiblical!
please use scripture that is relevant to the topic. you brought up first of all a scripture that you isegeted to make about salvation that wasnt actually about salvation and then on top of that used scripture from before Jesus died on the cross for our sins and therefore salvation was based on sacrifice and repentance.
The verse you use to "defend" your position of free will has nothing to do with salvation. John 1:12, 13 reads "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in his name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God."
Please comment on Romans 8:7, all thru the bible if ppl r doin nethng good in the eyes of god it requires them to b in the spirit not in the flesh, how is some1 not in the flesh but in the spirit?? Regeneration. Cannot please god, is faith & repentance pleasing to god?? So u have to b in the spirit b4 u can have faith
Isn't voluntary will sacrifice another way of saying free will sacrifice? Why is it called that? Is there a sacrifice that is free & 1 that isn't? It clearly means not 1 that is meant to atone for sin. there r required sacrifices for sin, & Freewill sacrifices, b consistent if all r not called Freewill than u must assume that some r not
Hebrews 11, everything that was done by , not only Abraham, but by every other old testament hero, was done BY FAITH. So, no they did not have the ability to please God in and of themselves, apart from faith they would have been just like anyone else. Paul describes this in Romans 3
"None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
If you don't receive this, strengthen your cervix, I have nothing to do with...
...so, here's our chance to get freedom (real one):
If a "elected one" name can be removed from the Book of Life, as we see at (Ex 32:32-33, Ps 69:27-28, Rev. 22:18-19), unconditional and "forever no matter what" salvation, and arbitrary predestination, BOTH fall down in absolute and unquestionable way for ever, and ever, and ever, and ever to the end of times. Amem!
"ye do not discern faces in judgment; as the little so the great ye do hear; ye are not afraid of the face of any, for the judgment is God's, and the thing which is too hard for you, ye bring near unto me, and I have heard it;" (Dt 1:17, YLT)
WOW! Man judging man. That's GOD's confidence, or what?
"If there is no will, so, is no genuine repentance."
How can I read this:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Fp 2:12)
...and keep in my mind that all (no exceptions) depends GOD only - men have no influence at all ???
Why to pray about those "not elected" and for those have not reached a better understanding about The Word of GOD?
exactly HOW do these scriptures work with your view of man's free will to come to God or not. ALL on his own power when Jesus said The words of Jesus. KJV Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:... Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
@rbmath Well there obviously has to be a REASON why the Father draws men to His Son. Calvinists posit arbitrary, partial, mystery. We believe the rest of the Bible explains this.
"Behold, I stand at the doore, and knocke: if any man heare my voyce, and open the doore, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Ap 3:20, KJV 1611)
Jesus is talking about the ones who are HIS sheep, the ones that are not HIS sheep, all mankind?
Jesus reach the door and GET IN?
Who must be the one that OPENS THE DOOR?
Please, answer that questions to yourself. No TULIP between you and The Word.
1. to see, literally or figuratively (direct and implied, transitive, intransitive and causative)
KJV: advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think
Everything depends on God because God madeeverything, including man.
But that the greatness of God is so above, he believes that His creation will return to Him recognizing that only IN HIM we can be completely satisfied.
He then calls us back showing us our errors to repent, until the limit that only HE knows.
We fall, and He takes us all back, by the sacrifice of Himself. Now the man have to take the path back, and that passes through will 'cause Adam sinned willingly. PERFECTION of GOD!
@marcelobetel. your not really facing the issues I raised. as Jesus said. John 6:44 No man can come to me, Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
@rbmath Because The Father of Jesus is not the one that mekes MEN to keep under the SIN.
If the devil never existed men NEVER would sin anyway.
So the FATHER OF THE LIE keeps all men (some more then others) in a PRISION of walls of lies like "I do this, I know I suppose do not, but you know, everybody does it..." or religious thoghts like "I was born to be a looser" or "I was born to be saved 'cause I am one of those elected by GOD since the ethernety" just like farisee presume they were free.
You are "son" of those you act, feel, react, like. Your predilactions and reactions draw you and PUT you under spiritual authority. Rm 6:16 says that, sad you never see that way. So your spiritual intelligence got limited by the "one" you are getting your "bread" from.
Only Jesus is The Bread of LIFE.
Get your "clues" and do like this "elected" did in Act 19:18-20 !
...BTW, do you celebrate "christmas"??? Read Ez 6:13 and look for any similarity...
@rbmath Have you ever thought about the fact that The Father sent prophets with HIS Word to THE WORLD from the beginning?
Did you consider that the OT to jews that were listen Jesus was THE ONLY holy document?
Jesus talk about MOSES who were the one they TRUST (that's idolatry). So, they still could NOT see The Bread of Life right there - They used to BE SURE about their election by WORKS and offspring.
They didn't hear THE FATHER about The Messiah, the love to gentile people to spread it...
you need to look at the hebrew word for his own voluntary will her is the meaning in hwbrew H7522
רצן רצון
râtsôn râtsôn
raw-tsone', raw-tsone'
From H7521; delight: - (be) acceptable (-ance, -ed), delight, desire, favour, (good) pleasure. so again you are not looking at hebrew. free will is not in the bible. show me in the greek or hebrew that it says free will.
"Among all those who have been born of women, there has not risen a greater than John Calvin; no age before him ever produced his equal, and no age afterwards has seen his rival. In theology, he stands alone, shining like a bright fixed star, while other leaders and teachers can only circle round him, at a great distance — as comets go streaming through space — with nothing like his glory or his permanence." - Charles Spurgeon [1]
Why has the LORD all the power to restart humanity not just with Noah and his family and HE didn't?
Why The Lord threatened many times to Israel many times, sent His prophets to warn about the consequences of turning away from HIM? Why God, gives options (CHOOSE) about which path they should take? Sadism? The all-knowing God not know that man has no ability to choose to return IT?
Why has the LORD all the power to restart humanity not just with Noah and his family? Why The Lord threatened many times to Israel many times and sent His prophets to be warned about the consequences of turning away from God? Why God, not man, put options (CHOOSE) about which path they should take? Sadism? The all-knowing God not know that man has no ability to choose to return IT?
@rbmath The sheep start to HEAR first THEN obey. Those pharisees were full of envy, and religious hate, trying to find out how to get Jesus in one sin. They were NOT there to learn, just like when somebody comes to any site to kick and punch and never tries to understand what everybody is actually saying...
@marcelobetel ...You misunderstand John 10:26 Jesus clearly said they are NOT HIS SHEEP that's why they CANNOT understand Jesus. They do NOT BELONG TO JESUS, Jesus knows who His sheep are Joh 10:27 and the person or people He was talking to were NOT SHEEP. they do NOT have the freedom to become Christ's sheep. A goat DOES NOT have the free will to turn itself into a sheep...
@rbmath Perhaps you never read Acts 6:7 which says " And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
That same bunch He said were children of the devil, not His sheep, and who had Him crucified are now believers! Clearly then, what Christ meant was they were not part of the little flock Christ had assembled prior to His death--it was a temporary blindness they had. Glory!
@rbmath Well we know the priests with one accord condemed Christ to die, and that many of Christ's condemnations were aimed at them. So when Acts tells us a great companyu of the priest became obedient to the faith--well that obviously has to include the bunch He rebuked and that had Him put to death--unless you believe there was a great company of priest who kinda weren't around when all this happened?
@rbmath Well the vast majority of them were! Now a majority believes and become Christ's sheep. The overlap between the two groups is impossible to avoid or deny. Its simple really. I can take the text at face value and believe it. No doubt SOME of the priest rebuked by Christ who also participated in his death were of the GREAT COMPANY who later believed in Acts 6. There is no way around this. So it is clear then that the blindness and inability to believe was TEMPORARY. Glory!
@Providential1611 Again your assuming your view that both groups are the same. You have no scriptures that teach this. (2) even if some in group were at the illegal trail I do not assume that they were ALL sheep or ALL goats. (3) This does not deny what the scripture I pointed out says about the person or group that Jesus said. They were NOT FREE to be Christ's sheep. "you are not of My sheep"....
@rbmath Yuo interpretatio is based on TULIP first, then Bible. That's WHY you can only understand that way.
Just like catholics ALWAYS mention the cherubs on the top of The Ark to justify their idolatry, just like Jeovah Witness do with Jo 14:28 to say that Jesus is not GOD, etc. ...
...OF CURSE they're NOT Jesus Christ sheep, cause they PREFERRED the works of darkness into their hearts, the MOTIVATION (cames from MOTION) was HOMICIDAL, FALSE, just like the devil in the desert.
We NEVER can do, feel, think anything that's GOOD and BAD at same time in the same thought. Not thru GOD's eyes, I mean. They were NOT Jesus' sheep but COULD became sheep of Jesus like Levi/Matheus, Saul/Paul, and any other that became christian and used to fight against Christ and His Body.
BTW, a human is NOT an animal - different kind of flash, soul and spirit. So I suggest you try something better...
Read Marcus 9:23 'till gets inside your mind that this promise comes from Dt 30:19/Ez 11.
@marcelobetel.. God knew who His sheep are long before they were born. Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Well, I hope you can understand that GOD create all laws we can deal with (gavity, sowing, etc.).
One of these laws is:"walk thru the path I show you and we'll walk together; you'll bem mine and I'll be your GOD/Father. But, if you step out of the path that I show you to walk you'll be out of my sight and walking by yourself where are many beasts running fast for a meal".
That's What The Bible shows up from Genesis to Revelation.
4. (impersonally for the future tense) to be about to
5. (by Hebraism) to delight in
{literally or figuratively; as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive acquiescence in objective considerations}
[apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138]
4- The Word exists befor the formation of the "you name it".
5- The destination of those who would (or NOT0 prefer to give his lifes to GOD thru Jesus Christ were determinated way before the formation of the (you name it".
So, IN CHRIST all men can reach The Father.
To receive the salvation IS NOT a work, but a passive act.
@marcelobetel .. either you're not understanding what I'm posting or your ignoring it. VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. as I asked before. Understand what Jesus said in John 6:44,65 as I already posted. CAN ANYONE all on their OWN WITHOUT the help of God using his "freewill" COME TO CHRIST? the scriptures say NO.God does NOT force anyone. Your question shows you know very little about what the scriptures actually teach. The natural man is HOSTILE to God and does NOT WANT TO BE SAVED. Rom 8:7, Col 1:21,
@rbmath Yes, HE does it and fill up with HIS Spirit to equip man to walk on HIS Path.
No man can change his own heart and spirit, of course. But he MUST hear the CALL by The Word of GOD (That actually is Jesus Christ - The Verb) and RECEIVE HIM. All works come from GOD.
I never disagree about that. The mstake is about your vision about "freewill".
In fact, there's influences that push or pull men, like: satan and deamons, flesh, GOD and HIS angels.
@rbmath I don't need to study pagan concepts that augustine and Calvin imported into Christianity. Your two concepts are not in the Bible, but were INVENTED to salvage the LIES of Calvinist, which is one of the most stupid, illogical, Scripturally and experientially disprovable heresies to ever come down the pike. Praise the Lord most Christians never have been or will believe this foppery.
@Providential1611.. Why am I not surprised at your comment and your refusal to honestly study what your against. I hope that you will not use this verse about "free will offering" against people who actually have honestly studied or read about both sides because you clearly show how very little you know if you think the scriptures prove "free will"
@rbmath Could you explain wich men are in "ALL" word?
"But I would haue you knowe, that the head of euery man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God." (1Co 11:3, KJV 1611)
@rbmath Could you explain wich men are in "ALL" word?
"But I would haue you knowe, that the head of euery man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God." (1Co 11:3, KJV 1611)
@Providential1611 ... OK. Using your "free will" without ANY HELP from God. free yourself from your sins and sinful nature. John 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
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@Calvinists "So, if Christ died for all, and all are not saved, did He fail?"
By fail, do you mean that God did a work to bring about salvation and that this effort was in vain?
Jer 2:30 30 In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction:
You are a Calvinist and you will likely go to hell.
God also sent prophets to save Israel and many did not repent. Was that God's failure or their failure to comply with the condition for pardon?
You twist Scripture
fractalfires1 16 hours ago
Calvinism has God "playing chess against himself." The devil is just another tool in God's hand, carrying out "God's will." Sinful intellectual pride leads to abysmal, crippling mental confusion. Believers in this doctrine have sometimes literally lost their minds trying to make sense of it all, and a few of them have actually committed suicide.
SonitiVeri 1 week ago
@Providential1611
For WHAT PURPOSE would Jesus warn us in Mark 9:42/ Matt.18:6 about being an [Immediate] CAUSE of Sin for those little ones who believe in him to Sin, when Calvinism says GOD is the ULTIMATE CAUSE of ALL SIN & ULTIMATE SOURCE DETERMINING whether one of his little ones DOES or does NOT Sin?
According to Calvinism, who CAUSALY DETERMINES that little ones who believe in him WILL SIN?
"God, but man is 2be blamed, how this works is a MYSTERY"
Got Logical Fallacies?
TONS of them.
Isaiah1v18 1 week ago
@Providential1611 Matt. 13:41 ESV
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather OUT of HIS Kingdom ALL CAUSES of SIN and all law-breakers, & throw them into the FIERY FURNACE.
Are Calvinists declaring Jesus will kick GOD, the "ULTIMATE CAUSE of ALL SIN" OUT of HIS own Kingdom as well!?
"Its a Paradox! A MYSTERY!!"
Its a FULL-BLOWN Scriptural & Logical CONTRADICTION you Gnostic-Centered, Stiff-Necked,Holy Spirit Resisting FOOL!
Isaiah1v18 1 week ago
@Povidential1611 "Arminians say AMEN--Calvinists scream INABILITY! LOL
Look at these sinners, trying to patrol the SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD, quoting each other, parroting each other, what a shame. "God is the ULTIMATE CAUSE of Sin" according to Gordon H. Clark... Stoic Philosophers came up with that 2000 years ago.. solomon was right, "There's NOTHING NEW under the Sun, its all VANITY"... indeed, calvinism is a Chasing after the wind! What a foolish way to end ones life, chasing after the wind.
Isaiah1v18 1 week ago
@Isaiah1v18 They also chase their own tail. I have watched this over and over and over and over. Surely it was a Calvinist who wrote the following "Non-contradictory, mystery" of a jingle:
The barefoot boy
with his boots on
Stood
sitting there
Providential1611 1 week ago
@Providential1611
"YOU have hidden these things from the Wise & prudent..." Amen!
Hidden from the scribes and Pharisees, vainly puffed up by their fleshly minds, having foolish hearts darkened, refusing to submit to the righteousness of God, "wise" according to the world's estimation of wisdom, 1 Cor. 1:26-27.
Ah, yes, the incessant "context hopping" of the Deterministic Party, "He-Chose-Me-Not-You-Soli-Deo- Gloria-Make-Believe-Gnostic-Centered-Doctrines-of-Damnation" is truly amazing.
Isaiah1v18 1 week ago
@Isaiah1v18 LOL! Please continue.
Providential1611 1 week ago
@Isaiah1v18 Got logic?
Apparently not.
R1K2G3 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 The calvinist has the GALL to bring up logic, or pretend he follows it??? calvinism is the very essence of illogic. Calvinism teaches men how to become experts in double-talk while asserting utterly contradictory and irrational ideas, with blasphemy as well. When one enters a Calvinist room, no matter how logical he may be in every other realm of thought, he leaves his logic at the door. Its a prerequisite
Providential1611 1 week ago
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tgillspy2 1 week ago
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@Providential1611 Psalm 119 :108 KJV That is a mighty trump against the calvinist error....!
tgillspy2 1 week ago
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Isaiah1v18 1 week ago
These Cavinists have a Double Standard, & they send sinners on a "Fools Errand", a "Catch-22".
By commading "repentance" to those that are DEAD, they demand them to REGENERATE themselves & REPENT, which they themselves consider IMPOSSIBLE without GODs SOVEREIGN WILL & Decree , then DAMN them FOREVER for not obeying, AS IF they THEMSELVES could ever repent without GODs SOVEREIGN WILL & DECREE & call it 'Justice'.
A Fools Errand indeed.
Are we learning Yet?
Isaiah1v18 1 week ago
This calvinism/gnostic deity "commands" people to obey, but has SOVEREIGNLY DECREED for them to disobey to BURN them FOREVER, who purposed their DAMANTION in his mind & heart from the FOUNDATION of the WORLD, "BEFORE they were born or had done anything either good or bad" for "His GOOD pleasure" to "Glorify Himself", then tries to justify his deception under the illusion that they're going to hell for their Self Determined choices of sin.
Are we learning Yet?
Isaiah1v18 1 week ago
"Free will": The power of contrary choice, or, the ability to do otherwise.
In order for one to know for certain that their choices are not determined by any external, or internal factors (including God Himself), would require one to know every cause and effect in the universe. Thus, the proponents of "free will" (an unbiblical notion; yea, even satanic) are logically claiming OMNISCIENCE (an attribute that belongs to God alone).
Are we learning anything yet?
R1K2G3 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 This is a smokescreen based on unBiblical philosophic sophisty. Nothing unBiblical about free-will and no our assertions about it DO NOT lead to claiming omniscience--the Calvinist needs to put the crack-pipe down, sober up and end all the hallucinations. Making stuff up is not exegesis of the Scripture.
Providential1611 1 week ago
@Providential1611 "To be conscious of free will therefore requires omniscience. Hence there is no consciousness of free will; what its exponents take a consciousness of free will is simply the unconsciousness of determination [or, "divine determinism"]"
[Gordon H. Clark, (works) v.4, p.262].
Dr. Clark was absolutely correct in his assessment of the fallacious notion of "free will".
The Bible does not teach the synergistic notion of "free will".
R1K2G3 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 "Dr." Clark was a philospher, not a soul-winner or exegete of Scripture. This type of drivel is just that. His pontifications are not fact. Who cares what he says. The Bible says differently. Period. The Bible teaches SYNERGISM from beginning to end, ESPECIALLY REGARDING THE HUMAN WILL. Period.
Providential1611 1 week ago
@Providential1611 I keep noticing that you cannot refute anything I have said with an actual, substantive argument.
Usually when people resort to such emotional responses, it's because they have not thought through their own position deeply enough (nor have sought out what the Bible actually teaches about the issue), and therefore, they cannot respond accordingly.
I'll give you time to reflect on your position...and I honestly hope, and pray that you do.
Thanks for the discussion, though ;)
R1K2G3 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 Actually, you just described all your comments. My video has all the proof anyone needs, and you certainly have had no substantive response to my points therein. As for thinking deeply or seeking out what the Scripture says--surely you jest.
Providential1611 1 week ago
@Providential1611 "At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that YOU have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children.." (Mt.11:25, ESV).
The Calvinist says, "Amen!", to this passage; while the synergist (committing idolatry in worshiping at the throne of "free will") would rather delete this passage from the God-breathed Scriptures.
Soli Deo Gloria!
R1K2G3 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 The Calvinist doesn't care about CONTEXT, which tells us WHY truths are hidden from certain people and not from others. You are "Amening" Calvinsim, not Christianity. Christ reveals truth to those who become like little children--SOMETHING THEY MUST DECIDE TO DO--FREELY. When we DO THAT, revelation comes. Those who are proud shall be brought low, but the humble shall be lifted up. SO SIMPLE. Arminians say AMEN--Calvinists scream INABILITY! LOL
Providential1611 1 week ago
@Providential1611 If man is "Totally Depraved" making it IMPOSSIBLE for them to understand & to know that Jesus is the Christ, without Gods IRRESISTIBLE FORCE (Grace), why is it then possible for DEMONS who sin & do the work of Satan, to "KNOW" (Lk.4:34) that Jesus is Lord? You're left w/ one of two possibilities-
1. People are MORE wicked than Demons. Or
2. Demons were Regenerated & born of God to "KNOW" that Jesus is Lord.
Total Depravity/Inability doesn't exist.
Isaiah1v18 2 weeks ago
@Isaiah1v18 Of course, the demons were created before humans, and they knew their Creator...as they do to this day.
Demons are never regenerated by God; this does not mean that they don't have the same (if not more) "general revelation" of God than fallen mankind has (cf.Rom.1:18-22). Total Inability:
Jn.6:44 "no one can come to me (Jesus; in saving faith)..." "Can"--(Gk. δύναται, dynatai) means: to show ability (power); able (enabled by God), empowered.
Learning yet?
R1K2G3 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 Don't mess around with John too much. he used the same word when he said that those born of God CANNOT sin--same word--inability. So as long as you will be CONSISTENT, you must ALSO LOUDLY PROCLAIM sinless perfection. If you refuse to accept 1John 3:9 with your defintion, then don't give me any garbage about John 6. Neither one of them teaches inability due to NATURE, but do to CHOICE. If men refuse to listen(John 6), they CANNOT COME.
Providential1611 1 week ago
@Providential1611 Ah, yes, the incessant "context hopping" of the synergistic, "grace + sinful man = salvation", is truly amazing.
R1K2G3 1 week ago
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Isaiah1v18 2 weeks ago
Total ignorance of what an "imperative" means!
Total ignorance of what Calvinists believe about the believer's "will"!
So sad to see such ignorance of the Protestant/Biblical teaching on these basic issues :(
R1K2G3 2 weeks ago
@R1K2G3 Not so. Calvinism is not hard to understand, it is impossible for any rational, morally honest person to believe. It violates Scripture and our God given reason, intuition, conscience, etc. Calvinism appeals to the pride in man. I understand Calvinism quite well.
Providential1611 2 weeks ago
@Providential1611 What is an imperative? Can you please explain?
And has not the fall affected our "God given reason, intuition, conscience, etc."?
Or do you not believe in original sin, thus following the Pelagian heresy? (cf. Rom.5:12-14, for the doctrine of original sin).
Indeed, God alone is reasonable, rational, and logical...fallen human beings are not! Hence, the necessity of the special revelation contained in Holy Writ. Soli Deo Gloria!
R1K2G3 2 weeks ago
@R1K2G3 So fallen man cannot reason 1+1=2? Fallen man has written textbooks on logic, the laws of logic, using reason correctly, etc. Do I believe Rom. 5 describes Adam's original sin? Yes. Do I believe that makes it synonymous with Calvin's doctrine of Total Depravity? Uh--no. One does not prove the other. Total Depravity is a false doctrine.
Providential1611 2 weeks ago
@Providential1611 Wow! Talk about the exaltation of fallen man's abilities to reason! Amazing! Mathematical equations are due to studying God's creation, they have nothing to do with spiritual truth. And to what extent did "original sin" affect Adam's progeny?
(btw, Original sin has to do with mankind's sin nature as inherited from Adam; not Adam's first sin).
Total Depravity (inability):
Jn.6:44; Rom.8:7-8...etc.
R1K2G3 2 weeks ago
@R1K2G3 I exalted NOTHING. I simply STATED FACTS. As far as the "sin-nature"...there is no such term, nor the attending Calvinistic concepts behind that term in the Bible.n I'm sure that will shock you, as it did me when I finally realized that many things I was taught and took for granted were not quite what the Bible said. Man did not lose his WILL. God welcomed Cain AFTER rejecting him and said "if you do well, won't you be accepted?" Rhetoical question. Cain COULD HAVE
Providential1611 2 weeks ago
DONE WELL. This is obvious. Then he is told that sin desires him, but he must master it. RIDICULOUS ADVISE if the man is totally depraved as Calvinists claim. Cain wasn't. Sin was crouching AT THE DOOR, it did not control him. Cain could GO TO GOD and be accepted if he did "well". This is what God said and no matter how badly the Calvinist TWISTS John 6>44 and Rom 8, which say NOTHING about Total Depravity or Original Sin, Cain was ABLE to come to God.
Providential1611 2 weeks ago
@Providential1611
1) Man's sin nature is clearly laid out in Rom. 3:9-18.
2) Calvinists affirm that man has a will (a sinful one); man has no "free will" (a term you use without ever actually defining it).
3) You use the eg. of Cain (Gen.4:6) to support your philosophy; but you do not recognize the conditional imperative in the text!
This is why I asked if you knew what an imperative was. You would not make these mistakes otherwise.
R1K2G3 2 weeks ago
@R1K2G3 Man's volitional sinfulness is laid out in Rom 3, NOTHING ABOUT some "sinful nature". That expression is unBiblical. Man's will is "free"n by the very defintion of the word "will". FREEWILL and VOLUNTARY WILL are Bible termns. Your denials are PREPOSTEROUS. Imperatives are COMMANDS. Simple. Cain COOULD come to God, was encouraged to even after doing wrong, and was told to Master sin coming from the OUTSIDE. SO much for Total Depravity. Is is a MYTH
Providential1611 2 weeks ago
@R1K2G3 1. man's sin nature is clearly laid out in your opinion.
2. Calvinists play a word game trying to distinguish will from free will.
3. Stop drinking Kalvin Kool-Aid.
fractalfires1 1 week ago
@fractalfires1 The very definition of will implies freedom to choose. The fact God uses terms like FREE-WILL and Voluntary will is because He knew Calvinism was coming one day, and chose those two words to reinforce the truth. Amazingly, Calvinists still resist this BLATANT EFFORT on the part of the Lord to make the truth plain.
Providential1611 1 week ago
@Providential1611 No Calvinist denies that man has a "voluntary will" (which means that men willingly do what they desire).
We deny that man has "the power of CONTRARY CHOICE", or, "the ability to choose other than what one actually chooses". You're simply reading your traditions into Scripture, and using your satanic, fallen nature as the basis for your "exegesis" (which in reality is "eisegesis").
Bad theology leads to bad doxology...think about it.
R1K2G3 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 Yes, you deny the REAL MEANING of the word will, as found in the Bible, the words used in Hebrew, Greek and the English. To say man has a will IS TO AUTOMATICALLY CONCEDE he has the power of contrary choice OR....man has no will. Only a Calvinist can hold to absurd contradictions and redefine words as found NOWHERE IN ANY DICTIONARY OR LEXICON OF ANY LANGUAGE. It is truly stuff the carnal mind just MAKES UP.
Providential1611 1 week ago
@fractalfires1 "among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by NATURE children of wrath, like the REST OF MANKIND" (Eph.2:3, ESV).
"Nature"-- (Gk. φύσει, physei) means: properly, inner nature, the underlying constitution or make-up of someone (something); growth (by germination or expansion), (by implication) natural production (lineal descent).. ie. "original sin".
Simple enough?
R1K2G3 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 You defined the word nature perfectly. This does NOT mean as you interpret the verse that people are born sinners or that their nature is sinful.
The question is WHY does Paul say we were 'by nature children of wrath'. It is because 'we all once lived in the passions of the flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind'.
The term 'by nature' refers to 'by nature OF... having lived in the passions, etc.'
fractalfires1 1 week ago
@R1K2G3 hopefully this is simple enough. I found the phrase 'by nature' used frequently in similarly worded phrases, 'He enjoyed athletics, liked people and was by nature an optimist' 'who cared little for any advertisement, and was by nature aloof.' etc.
It is a summary of the person's custom, character or disposition, rather than a statement pertaining to PHYSICS or birth.
No, I really hope this is simple enough for you. May God bless you.
fractalfires1 1 week ago
If you're a born-again Christian -- we worship Jesus - not man and man's free will. So, we should go to the Word of God to understand PREDESTINATION. There is no reason to protest Predestination. It's quite FAIR and JUST. Jesus says on the last day for the damned to go into the lake of fire prepared for the devil and his angels. The damned ARE THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS. Jesus called Judas a devil. They're DEVILS -- predestined to damnation because they are the angels who fell.
graceexplosion 1 month ago
Lastly, And only God knows the real truth in which doctrine will turn out to be 100% God-inspired truth, without error. We will probably only be introduced to the perfect "religion"/"doctrine" when we meet before God Himself on Judgement day. I advise you all to be very careful. The devil can be deceiving even you, throwing off your entire understanding, using 5 scriptures scattered thruout the bible, to do it..
motiv8m 1 month ago
@motiv8m Yes on that Day we will see clearly, and not through a glass darkly. But there are many things clearly revelaed in Scripture, nature and reason, and there are things that are doctrines of devils. Five Scriptures is all it takes to expose Calvinism as the pagan philospohical fraud that pretends to be the doctrine of God. It is NOT, but the doctrines of devils who cause men to blaspheme.
Providential1611 1 month ago
@Providential1611 Men blaspheme because it is their nature to do so as children of the devil and devils themselves. That men blaspheme in response to God being Sovereign and on His Throne -- is just the the devil in them and themselves as devils themselves. We expect devils to protest God on His Throne. Like Satan, all devils want God's Throne and hate His Sovereign Rule.
graceexplosion 1 month ago
Third, Christians need to discontinue referring to other religious beliefs as teachings of devils unless they can prove every Christian religion wrong. You're skating on thin ice referring to the possible works of God as the work of the devil. This is unforgivable..
motiv8m 1 month ago
@motiv8m Third, Christians need to refer to obvoius doctrines of devils as such-1Tim. 4:1-5, and the idea that one must disprove every sect and denomination first is as irrational and ludicrist as it is unScriptural. I am not on thin ice in objecting to the fact that Calvinists ascribe to God that which is clearly the works and ideas of the Devil. Like Wesley said to the Calvinists of his day "He is a sovereign God, not a sovereign devil
Providential1611 1 month ago
Second, most comments on here of people battling doctrine is what the Apostle Paul advised against (getting caught up in arguing doctrine).
motiv8m 1 month ago
@motiv8m Second, most comments like yours here forget that Jude told us to earnestly contend for the faith, and Paul said there are times to rebuke sharply, so that people will be sound in the faith. Paul disputed DAILY in the temples whether Jesus was the Christ
Providential1611 1 month ago
First off, I dont like this video. Your disrespectful tone is the condescending, typical cocky arrogance that is the exact opposite of how Christ taught.
motiv8m 1 month ago
@motiv8m first off, I don't your comments. Your disrepsectful tone is the condescending, typica cocky arrogance that is the exact opposite of how Christ taught.
Providential1611 1 month ago
The whole point of Calvinism is to cause lost people to stay lost and for saved people to doubt their salvation. They are depraved devils and know NOTHING of God's love, grace and salvation!
jacksmack77 1 month ago
In Calvinism, God Purposely Decreeds for Man to come into Existance DEAD, INVOLUNTARILY created to love SIN from the moment of conception, having NO ABILITY to repent or beg for mercy, the vast majority FATED for DAMNATION, PREDESTINED to burn forever, CHOSEN for Eternal Punishment, "Before having done anything either good or bad" for "His good pleasure" with a ZERO chance of Salvation.
"O how BEAUTIFUL are the feet of those Calvinist who preach the good news!"
apollos6640 4 months ago
@apollos6640 Great point. How sad men view God in such a horrible way.
Providential1611 4 months ago
By saying we have free will makes Jesus like a human feeding squirrels with acorns where you hold out your hand hoping the squirrel will come take the acorn and then the squirrel turns around and takes off oh shucks lost another one. Man that makes Jesus look rather helpless. Come on don't put God in a box, that makes our maker look rather small for someone who is EVERYTHING. Why do you want free will anyway, so you can boast about coming to Christ. Sound like your giving yourself power.
cantboast93 4 months ago
The problem here is that with having free will we undermine Gods characteristics if God is all knowing then by having free will and coming to Christ would have the ability to surprise God but since God is all knowing that cannot happen, basically then we are saying Gods plan is left up to chance and could fail. but then who would want to serve a God that can fail. God is far to great to fail.
cantboast93 4 months ago
SOMEBODY REPLY ON MY THIS ONE. DOES THE PHRASE "WE MAKE CHOICES BUT GOD ALREADY KNEW WHAT CHOICE WE WERE GOING TO MAKE" HAVE ANY SENSE? THANKS
Theroyalone20 4 months ago
@Theroyalone20 Yes it has "sense" of you believe God has complete knowledge of the future and all decisions every person makes. Perhaps you can elaborate on what you are driving at so I can be sure I understand where you are coming from?
Providential1611 4 months ago
cantboast93 5 months ago
I would like you to study the opposition and not to blind yourself of the Truths of scripture, I pray that God may open your mind to the Truth and show his devine characteristics which never have and never wil change, as God has done to me, in which I am truly thankful for and pray to comfort your discomfort on the Truth of election. I am fairly certain you believe in free will due to your discomfort with the subject of election especially living your whole life believing you had free-will.
cantboast93 5 months ago
I understand the difficulty to accept the idea of Election, when I first came to know Christ I struggled immensely with this and I tried every which way to prove our free-will but as I studied scripture to prove my case I came across evidence of election over and over again and then in order to prove my case on free-will I would have had to be completely ignorant of the Truths of scripture. My quest for comfort in free-will completely backfired on me and I could not deny God's election.
cantboast93 5 months ago
@torvasal1 Sorry, I don't want to debate, but, what this verse have to do with The Creator answering to men?
"A man that is an heretike, after the first and second admonition, reiect:" (Tt 3:10)
Are you iliterate or simply have no idea what you're talking about - one of those you are for sure.
That verse is about HERETICS, reborn or false reborn ones that sinned and don't want to get back to The Creator 'cause they believe that they're NOT dead, like calvinists believe to be.
Adam did that.
marcelobetel 5 months ago
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To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 5 months ago
"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon
TJConscience 6 months ago
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fly4Him91 7 months ago
This guy is extremely arrogant.In order to be right he has put us in Gods place. Offering up Christ on the cross for our own redemption.Christ is the lamb of God not the lamb of sinners.I am thankful that I depend on God not myself for the sacrifice.There is none that doeth right none that SEEKETH GOD! That's NT I'll stick with the NT. Perhaps since you rely on the OT over the NT you should convert to Judaism. Really you should get into the NT first then understand the OT. U proved nothing
Ebeneezerable 7 months ago
Yes God offered the lamb of His own free will.By your assertion we offered Christ as a sacrifice."God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy" says Rom 9. Thats a real Bible verse.You claim freewill is in the Bible but you don't show that it has to do with Christianity.You had to go all the way back to Lev. The old law and its backwards at that, you have us offering up Christ as payment for our own sins.Abraham was chosen of God just like Moses, David, Peter, & Paul against his own will
Ebeneezerable 7 months ago
Good video.. there is an Audio/Video sync issue toward the end. FYI
kvermillionjr 7 months ago
Actually, nowhere in the NT does it say those Levitical offerings were foreshadowing people coming to Christ. You dreamed that up. It does say that they foreshadowed Christ, so if anything Lev 1:3 should remind us of John 10:17-18, Phil 2:6-8.
patrckhh20 7 months ago
@patrckhh20 In Lev One GOD ALMIGHTY says man has HIS OWN voluntary will. Calvinists say man DOES NOT. God says men are to come to him ONLY of THEIR OWN VOLUNTARY WILL, Calvinists say man can't do that. Hmmmmn...who do we believe?
Providential1611 7 months ago
@Providential1611 Calvinists do believe men have wills, but their wills can't transcend the limits of their nature. You are trying to force your theology on Lev 1. The fact is, depending on the reason for the sacrifice, the priest had to follow different laws, for ex.: Lev 7:12, 16. It is not the intention of Lev to teach us about the nature of the will. Even if a sacrifice was brought voluntarily, how do you know it wasn't with sinful motivations? Or that the bringer was not regenerate?
patrckhh20 7 months ago
@patrckhh20 Paul said ALL SCRIPTURE is profitable for doctrine. And the fact is we have GOD HIMSELF SPEAKING. It doesn't matter what book it is in, when its a THUS SAITH THE LORD, then we better listen up.
Providential1611 7 months ago
@Providential1611 You totally ignored my argument, and are still ignoring the context and intent of Leviticus. 2 Tim 3:16 does not give you the license to twist the Scripture into your Arminianism.
patrckhh20 7 months ago
@patrckhh20 People like this will always go to the OT to drag out some obscure verse from the old law (bondage according to Christ)in order to avoid the truth of election/adoption found throughout the NT.I have yet to see a politician elect themselves or an orphan adopt themselves."If any be ignorant let them be ignorant."I believe that the rebirth is a supernatural occurrence and any who think it was their own doing after being shown Rm. 9 Eph. 1, Jn 6 etc are very stiff necked or not reborn
Ebeneezerable 7 months ago
@Providential1611 Kardecists, calvinists, jehovah witnesses, adventists, mormons, romanists, protestants, all have another Master, another one between them and The Creator besides to The Messiah - they deny, but they do that. So, exactly like all jews that saw Jesus, heard Him, saw those miracles and all Scriptures fullfiled and did not seen WHO was there right in front of them - they preffered the Temple, The Law, the tradition, the earthly, human, animal, demonish logic knowlegement...
marcelobetel 5 months ago
@patrckhh20 He's saying that we offered up Christ as our own sin offering. He's not the Lamb of God but our own lamb that we apparently "prepared a body for" our own sin offering. Shoot, he doesn't even need God or His Lamb as long as we stay out of the New Testament that is. Which he seems to be quite proficient in.
Ebeneezerable 7 months ago
In Greek there's no word for "whosoever" the Greek terms translated whosoever could better be translated "believing-ones" it's not that whoever decides to change his own heart to believe in Him should not perish; But that the believing ones (ones that believe) should not perish.
You say that God wants to save everyone, but the Bible teaches that God gets what he wants. If God wants every single person saved and many perish then you are saying God FAILED to save them.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
@EverydayRevival Wrong--they failed to get saved.
In John 3:16 the Greek words are hina pas. They can be translated anyone who or whosover. You are wrong about that.
Providential1611 7 months ago
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@Providential1611 No sir... hina is a conjunction and it means "that" or "in order that" it means- denoting purpose, aim, or goal.
For God so loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son - hina (that, in order that) pas (all, every) ho (the) pisteuOn (one-believing) = that all the believing ones.
There's no way to get anyone, who, or whosoever. This passage isn't about who has the ability to believe, just that "all believers will have eternal life".
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
@Providential1611 According to your rational God WANTS EVERYONE saved, every single person ever, and if...
1) the Father created the universe and man, and
2) sent His only Son to live the perfect live, die on the cross, and be resurrected, and
3) then the Holy Spirit came to convict all men and draw all men unto Christ...
and "They fail to get saved" that means that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit did everything in their power to save and yet they've failed to save those who are perishing.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
@EverydayRevival Have you never read Christ's lament in Matt 23:37?
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, HOW OFTEN WOULD I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, AND YE WOULD NOT!
Rom 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
Providential1611 7 months ago
@Providential1611 "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, (Mat 23:2 ESV)
- He warns his disciples not to imitate their hypocrisy and pride. He exhibits a charge against them for divers crimes, corrupting the law, opposing the gospel, and treacherous dealing both with God and man; and each charge prefixed with woe.
- He passes sentence upon Jerusalem, and foretels the ruin of the city and temple, especially for the sin of persecution (v. 34-39).
Context is key to Bible Study.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
@Providential1611 Is 65:1-2 Paul told us what was the event they pointed at and were fulfilled in, the calling in of the Gentiles and the rejection of the Jews, by the preaching of the gospel, Rom. 10:20, 21. And he observes that herein Isaiah is very bold, not only in foretelling a thing so improbable, but in foretelling it to Jews, who would take it as a gross affront to their nation, and therein Moses's words would be made good, I will provoke you to jealousy by those that are no people.
EverydayRevival 7 months ago
You actually made the statement "God is just, God is good" in the same sentence with the statement "He (God) is not holding their sin against them"?!?!
How could God be just if He didn't punish unrepentant sinners?
You've got a really warped understanding of the attributes of God!
Bill244888 8 months ago
@Bill244888 Actually I don't . You just don't know the Bible. Behold:
18 And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
God is not imputing, or COUNTING their sins against them but offers reconciliation instead. Praise God!
Providential1611 7 months ago
@Providential1611
And your god is just who does not punish unrepentant sinners?
Psalm 7:11 "God is a righteous judge, and a God who has indignation every day."
Isa. 11:4 "But with righteousness He (Christ) will judge the poor, and decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; and He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked."
Bill244888 7 months ago
@Providential1611
You can't twist the words to fit your theology. "God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, . . ." (completed)
It doesn't say God was "offering" reconciliation.
Taking this passage as you've stated, how can you arrive at anything but universalism?
God reconciled "the world" (which you claim means everyone), and He did not "impute their sins against them". Their sins are removed and they are reconciled to God.
Voila, Universalism! Sounds like Rob Bell theology to me.
Bill244888 7 months ago
@Bill244888 His stumbling block is that like other,God would never send anyone to hell,emotionally led people,he rejects Romans 9 "some unto honor and some unto dishonor.He also doesn't understand this world (of which satan is god) and the world to come (of which Christ is God). If God so loved this world why is he sending some to hell? Because He doesn't love this world but the one to come with the elect.Christ said this world will hate you as it hated me.God doesnt love satans world,sorry
Ebeneezerable 7 months ago
Cain had no right to be angry with God. His guilt was on himself for his disobedience.
He was just like all men prior to God sovereignly saving them . . . "as it is written: 'None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.'" Rom. 3:10-12 (ESV)
Bill244888 8 months ago
Here is unsaved man's "free will" . . .
Romans 8:7-8 (KJV)
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh CANNOT please God."
Bill244888 8 months ago
If man has free will to turn to God prior to God drawing him, then why doesn't he just obey Him in the first place, then he wouldn't need to be saved?
"Sovereignty of God is not a bible term" - neither is trinity, so I suppose you don't believe in that one either.
Bill244888 8 months ago
@Bill244888
I must correct myself - God's sovereignty IS in the bible . . .
Psalm 103:19 "The LORD has established His throne in the heavens, and HIS SOVEREIGNTY rules over all."
Bill244888 7 months ago
Also at the begining when you "proved" that we have free will you proved that we have free will over everyday stuff (like deciding to make an offering to the Lord) not over salvation (which is what alot of calvinists already believe).
livingh13 8 months ago
your saying that God is a unknowing, mistake making god in saying that He wants everyone to be saved because that means that God wants but can't cause, that He's not omnipotent or omniscient, and that you can out wit God. I think not! but who cares what I think . . . it's unbiblical!
livingh13 8 months ago
please use scripture that is relevant to the topic. you brought up first of all a scripture that you isegeted to make about salvation that wasnt actually about salvation and then on top of that used scripture from before Jesus died on the cross for our sins and therefore salvation was based on sacrifice and repentance.
livingh13 8 months ago
The verse you use to "defend" your position of free will has nothing to do with salvation. John 1:12, 13 reads "But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in his name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, but of God."
erodjunior 9 months ago
Please comment on Romans 8:7, all thru the bible if ppl r doin nethng good in the eyes of god it requires them to b in the spirit not in the flesh, how is some1 not in the flesh but in the spirit?? Regeneration. Cannot please god, is faith & repentance pleasing to god?? So u have to b in the spirit b4 u can have faith
plato7770 10 months ago
Isn't voluntary will sacrifice another way of saying free will sacrifice? Why is it called that? Is there a sacrifice that is free & 1 that isn't? It clearly means not 1 that is meant to atone for sin. there r required sacrifices for sin, & Freewill sacrifices, b consistent if all r not called Freewill than u must assume that some r not
plato7770 10 months ago
Hebrews 11, everything that was done by , not only Abraham, but by every other old testament hero, was done BY FAITH. So, no they did not have the ability to please God in and of themselves, apart from faith they would have been just like anyone else. Paul describes this in Romans 3
"None is righteous, no, not one;
no one understands;
no one seeks for God.
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless;
no one does good,
not even one."
Koonethboy 10 months ago
If you don't receive this, strengthen your cervix, I have nothing to do with...
...so, here's our chance to get freedom (real one):
If a "elected one" name can be removed from the Book of Life, as we see at (Ex 32:32-33, Ps 69:27-28, Rev. 22:18-19), unconditional and "forever no matter what" salvation, and arbitrary predestination, BOTH fall down in absolute and unquestionable way for ever, and ever, and ever, and ever to the end of times. Amem!
Try to prove that's wrong, PLEASE.
marcelobetel 10 months ago
The Lake of Fire was created for...
...who?
marcelobetel 10 months ago
"ye do not discern faces in judgment; as the little so the great ye do hear; ye are not afraid of the face of any, for the judgment is God's, and the thing which is too hard for you, ye bring near unto me, and I have heard it;" (Dt 1:17, YLT)
WOW! Man judging man. That's GOD's confidence, or what?
marcelobetel 10 months ago
"If there is no will, so, is no genuine repentance."
How can I read this:
"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." (Fp 2:12)
...and keep in my mind that all (no exceptions) depends GOD only - men have no influence at all ???
Why to pray about those "not elected" and for those have not reached a better understanding about The Word of GOD?
GOD can make them see, right?
marcelobetel 10 months ago
exactly HOW do these scriptures work with your view of man's free will to come to God or not. ALL on his own power when Jesus said The words of Jesus. KJV Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him:... Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Well there obviously has to be a REASON why the Father draws men to His Son. Calvinists posit arbitrary, partial, mystery. We believe the rest of the Bible explains this.
Providential1611 10 months ago
@Providential1611.. Once again you mis the point of John 6:44,65. NO MAN CAN come to Christ ALL on his own. I was NOT asking for reasons why..
rbmath 10 months ago
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@rbmath What do you understand from this verse:
"Behold, I stand at the doore, and knocke: if any man heare my voyce, and open the doore, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me." (Ap 3:20, KJV 1611)
Jesus is talking about the ones who are HIS sheep, the ones that are not HIS sheep, all mankind?
Jesus reach the door and GET IN?
Who must be the one that OPENS THE DOOR?
Please, answer that questions to yourself. No TULIP between you and The Word.
marcelobetel 10 months ago
Please, pay attention to the words "he", "considereth" and the expression "turneth away":
"Because he considereth and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely liue, he shall not die. (Ez 18:28)
marcelobetel 10 months ago
H7200 רָאָה ra'ah (raw-aw') v.
1. to see, literally or figuratively (direct and implied, transitive, intransitive and causative)
KJV: advise self, appear, approve, behold, X certainly, consider, discern, (make to) enjoy, have experience, gaze, take heed, X indeed, X joyfully, lo, mark, meet, X be near, perceive, present, provide, regard, (have) respect, (fore-, cause to, let) see(-r, -m, one another), shew (self), X sight of others, (e-)spy, stare, X surely, X think
marcelobetel 10 months ago
Boooooooooooooooooommmmmmm...
marcelobetel 10 months ago
Everything depends on God because God madeeverything, including man.
But that the greatness of God is so above, he believes that His creation will return to Him recognizing that only IN HIM we can be completely satisfied.
He then calls us back showing us our errors to repent, until the limit that only HE knows.
We fall, and He takes us all back, by the sacrifice of Himself. Now the man have to take the path back, and that passes through will 'cause Adam sinned willingly. PERFECTION of GOD!
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@marcelobetel. your not really facing the issues I raised. as Jesus said. John 6:44 No man can come to me, Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Because The Father of Jesus is not the one that mekes MEN to keep under the SIN.
If the devil never existed men NEVER would sin anyway.
So the FATHER OF THE LIE keeps all men (some more then others) in a PRISION of walls of lies like "I do this, I know I suppose do not, but you know, everybody does it..." or religious thoghts like "I was born to be a looser" or "I was born to be saved 'cause I am one of those elected by GOD since the ethernety" just like farisee presume they were free.
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@marcelobetel you have no clue what your talking about.
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Just because you can't understand.
You are "son" of those you act, feel, react, like. Your predilactions and reactions draw you and PUT you under spiritual authority. Rm 6:16 says that, sad you never see that way. So your spiritual intelligence got limited by the "one" you are getting your "bread" from.
Only Jesus is The Bread of LIFE.
Get your "clues" and do like this "elected" did in Act 19:18-20 !
...BTW, do you celebrate "christmas"??? Read Ez 6:13 and look for any similarity...
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@rbmath Have you ever thought about the fact that The Father sent prophets with HIS Word to THE WORLD from the beginning?
Did you consider that the OT to jews that were listen Jesus was THE ONLY holy document?
Jesus talk about MOSES who were the one they TRUST (that's idolatry). So, they still could NOT see The Bread of Life right there - They used to BE SURE about their election by WORKS and offspring.
They didn't hear THE FATHER about The Messiah, the love to gentile people to spread it...
marcelobetel 10 months ago
you need to look at the hebrew word for his own voluntary will her is the meaning in hwbrew H7522
רצן רצון
râtsôn râtsôn
raw-tsone', raw-tsone'
From H7521; delight: - (be) acceptable (-ance, -ed), delight, desire, favour, (good) pleasure. so again you are not looking at hebrew. free will is not in the bible. show me in the greek or hebrew that it says free will.
Tina4Yhwh 11 months ago
Who was the one to wright something like this:
"God does not remit sins but to the baptized".
– A Sermon to Catechumens on the Creed, Paragraph 16
Believe or not...
marcelobetel 11 months ago
Is this idolatry, or what?
"Among all those who have been born of women, there has not risen a greater than John Calvin; no age before him ever produced his equal, and no age afterwards has seen his rival. In theology, he stands alone, shining like a bright fixed star, while other leaders and teachers can only circle round him, at a great distance — as comets go streaming through space — with nothing like his glory or his permanence." - Charles Spurgeon [1]
marcelobetel 11 months ago
Why has the LORD all the power to restart humanity not just with Noah and his family and HE didn't?
Why The Lord threatened many times to Israel many times, sent His prophets to warn about the consequences of turning away from HIM? Why God, gives options (CHOOSE) about which path they should take? Sadism? The all-knowing God not know that man has no ability to choose to return IT?
Is The Word of GOD is GOD Himself, or NOT?
marcelobetel 11 months ago
And you didn't answered me, too! Nothing NEW.
Try to answer this:
Why has the LORD all the power to restart humanity not just with Noah and his family? Why The Lord threatened many times to Israel many times and sent His prophets to be warned about the consequences of turning away from God? Why God, not man, put options (CHOOSE) about which path they should take? Sadism? The all-knowing God not know that man has no ability to choose to return IT?
Is The Word of GOD GOD Himself, or NOT?
marcelobetel 11 months ago
Joh 8:36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
rbmath 11 months ago
NASB John 10:26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. Their goes human free will to repent..
rbmath 11 months ago
@rbmath The sheep start to HEAR first THEN obey. Those pharisees were full of envy, and religious hate, trying to find out how to get Jesus in one sin. They were NOT there to learn, just like when somebody comes to any site to kick and punch and never tries to understand what everybody is actually saying...
marcelobetel 11 months ago
@marcelobetel ...You misunderstand John 10:26 Jesus clearly said they are NOT HIS SHEEP that's why they CANNOT understand Jesus. They do NOT BELONG TO JESUS, Jesus knows who His sheep are Joh 10:27 and the person or people He was talking to were NOT SHEEP. they do NOT have the freedom to become Christ's sheep. A goat DOES NOT have the free will to turn itself into a sheep...
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Perhaps you never read Acts 6:7 which says " And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
That same bunch He said were children of the devil, not His sheep, and who had Him crucified are now believers! Clearly then, what Christ meant was they were not part of the little flock Christ had assembled prior to His death--it was a temporary blindness they had. Glory!
Providential1611 10 months ago
@Providential1611 You assume that these are the very same people spoken of.
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Well we know the priests with one accord condemed Christ to die, and that many of Christ's condemnations were aimed at them. So when Acts tells us a great companyu of the priest became obedient to the faith--well that obviously has to include the bunch He rebuked and that had Him put to death--unless you believe there was a great company of priest who kinda weren't around when all this happened?
Providential1611 10 months ago
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@Providential1611 ... Once again you assume this.
rbmath 10 months ago
@Providential1611 .. you assume that every single last priests in the nation of Israel was present during the illegal trail...
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Well the vast majority of them were! Now a majority believes and become Christ's sheep. The overlap between the two groups is impossible to avoid or deny. Its simple really. I can take the text at face value and believe it. No doubt SOME of the priest rebuked by Christ who also participated in his death were of the GREAT COMPANY who later believed in Acts 6. There is no way around this. So it is clear then that the blindness and inability to believe was TEMPORARY. Glory!
Providential1611 10 months ago
@Providential1611 Again your assuming your view that both groups are the same. You have no scriptures that teach this. (2) even if some in group were at the illegal trail I do not assume that they were ALL sheep or ALL goats. (3) This does not deny what the scripture I pointed out says about the person or group that Jesus said. They were NOT FREE to be Christ's sheep. "you are not of My sheep"....
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Yuo interpretatio is based on TULIP first, then Bible. That's WHY you can only understand that way.
Just like catholics ALWAYS mention the cherubs on the top of The Ark to justify their idolatry, just like Jeovah Witness do with Jo 14:28 to say that Jesus is not GOD, etc. ...
...OF CURSE they're NOT Jesus Christ sheep, cause they PREFERRED the works of darkness into their hearts, the MOTIVATION (cames from MOTION) was HOMICIDAL, FALSE, just like the devil in the desert.
Read Rm 6:16.
marcelobetel 10 months ago
We NEVER can do, feel, think anything that's GOOD and BAD at same time in the same thought. Not thru GOD's eyes, I mean. They were NOT Jesus' sheep but COULD became sheep of Jesus like Levi/Matheus, Saul/Paul, and any other that became christian and used to fight against Christ and His Body.
BTW, a human is NOT an animal - different kind of flash, soul and spirit. So I suggest you try something better...
Read Marcus 9:23 'till gets inside your mind that this promise comes from Dt 30:19/Ez 11.
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@marcelobetel.. God knew who His sheep are long before they were born. Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath You said "in HIM", right?
Well, I hope you can understand that GOD create all laws we can deal with (gavity, sowing, etc.).
One of these laws is:"walk thru the path I show you and we'll walk together; you'll bem mine and I'll be your GOD/Father. But, if you step out of the path that I show you to walk you'll be out of my sight and walking by yourself where are many beasts running fast for a meal".
That's What The Bible shows up from Genesis to Revelation.
Please read 1Jo 5:18 .
marcelobetel 10 months ago
In 2Pe 3:5 we see the WILL of some...
G2309 θέλω thelo (thel'-o)
1. to determine, i.e. choose or prefer
2. (by implication) to wish, i.e. be inclined to
3. (sometimes adverbially) gladly
4. (impersonally for the future tense) to be about to
5. (by Hebraism) to delight in
{literally or figuratively; as an active option from subjective impulse; whereas G1014 properly denotes rather a passive acquiescence in objective considerations}
[apparently strengthened from the alternate form of G138]
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@marcelobetel RE: You said "in HIM", right?
The SCRIPTURE SAID "in him" and I'm not really sure how this denies what I said.
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Well, I'll try to help you to be sure:
1- GOD made all things
2- The Word IS GOD
3- The Word is sempiternal
4- The Word exists befor the formation of the "you name it".
5- The destination of those who would (or NOT0 prefer to give his lifes to GOD thru Jesus Christ were determinated way before the formation of the (you name it".
So, IN CHRIST all men can reach The Father.
To receive the salvation IS NOT a work, but a passive act.
TULIP teaches that GOD force some to be saved.
marcelobetel 10 months ago
Without will a man is just like an animal with instincts, and this is not true.
If you go to the farest point in the map you'll find some relating to spiritual world in some manner (wrong manner unfortunately).
Becouse ALL MEN miss GOD at diferent levels - all creation anciously waits for the manifestation of who?
In Rm 8:19 you'll see "distressing expectation" there (look for it).
So why these men can not receive the salvation?
Answer - 2Tm 2:24-26 + 2Co 4:3-4 !!!!
Prision!!! See Jo 8:32.
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@marcelobetel .. either you're not understanding what I'm posting or your ignoring it. VERY SIMPLE QUESTION. as I asked before. Understand what Jesus said in John 6:44,65 as I already posted. CAN ANYONE all on their OWN WITHOUT the help of God using his "freewill" COME TO CHRIST? the scriptures say NO.God does NOT force anyone. Your question shows you know very little about what the scriptures actually teach. The natural man is HOSTILE to God and does NOT WANT TO BE SAVED. Rom 8:7, Col 1:21,
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath ...can anyone even breathe, be born, exist, unless GOD give it to?
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@marcelobetel PART 2. God removes the heart of stone that the natural man has and gives him a heart of flesh Eze 11:19, Eze 36:26,
rbmath 10 months ago
@rbmath Yes, HE does it and fill up with HIS Spirit to equip man to walk on HIS Path.
No man can change his own heart and spirit, of course. But he MUST hear the CALL by The Word of GOD (That actually is Jesus Christ - The Verb) and RECEIVE HIM. All works come from GOD.
I never disagree about that. The mstake is about your vision about "freewill".
In fact, there's influences that push or pull men, like: satan and deamons, flesh, GOD and HIS angels.
Even over those that never heard The Word.
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@marcelobetel Every man bring inside in diferent levels some pieces of the Law. Some, even if never had heard The Law.
How can The Lord exposed by Augustine/Calvin say someting like this:
"And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieued him at his heart." (Gn 6:6, KJV 1611)
"And he marueiled because of their vnbeliefe. And he went round about the villages, teaching". (Mc 6:6, KJV 1611)
...you'll respond with another verse, but not respond my questions, AGAIN?
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@marcelobetel RE: No man can change his own heart and spirit, of course. ... So your answer denies man's free will
rbmath 10 months ago
@marcelobetel RE:TULIP.. NO... Your not answering the question..
rbmath 10 months ago
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GlennZim 11 months ago
watch?v=0eHjQHMWp1M
rbmath 11 months ago
Very funny video. No one is denying CREATURELY FREEDOM. The bible denies libertarian free will. I highly suggest that you study the difference...
rbmath 11 months ago
@rbmath I don't need to study pagan concepts that augustine and Calvin imported into Christianity. Your two concepts are not in the Bible, but were INVENTED to salvage the LIES of Calvinist, which is one of the most stupid, illogical, Scripturally and experientially disprovable heresies to ever come down the pike. Praise the Lord most Christians never have been or will believe this foppery.
Providential1611 11 months ago
@Providential1611.. Why am I not surprised at your comment and your refusal to honestly study what your against. I hope that you will not use this verse about "free will offering" against people who actually have honestly studied or read about both sides because you clearly show how very little you know if you think the scriptures prove "free will"
rbmath 11 months ago
@rbmath Could you explain wich men are in "ALL" word?
"But I would haue you knowe, that the head of euery man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God." (1Co 11:3, KJV 1611)
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@rbmath Could you explain wich men are in "ALL" word?
"But I would haue you knowe, that the head of euery man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man, and the head of Christ is God." (1Co 11:3, KJV 1611)
I expect you say "only the elect ones"...
marcelobetel 10 months ago
@Providential1611 ... OK. Using your "free will" without ANY HELP from God. free yourself from your sins and sinful nature. John 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is a slave to sin. Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
rbmath 11 months ago