I assume that he is working trap 3. Why is he retracting the shoulder blade though? 1) Opposite leg forward(which he is doing) 2) Supinate the wrist 3) Raise the chest 4) The arm goes across the body through the shoulder with a parallel hand grip. The whole idea of going through the shoulder rather than around is to not use the rotator cuff.
So this is the exercise for the Lower Trap on Poliquin's Structural Balance Assessment. Good to know. Can You please tell me how much an athlete is supposed to lift in this exercise in relation to his 1RM Close Grip Bench Press?
It's not the trap 3 test exericse. It's just a good one to strengthen the trap 3. Poliquin's structural balance trap 3 is with one arm on an incline bench and you're bent over at the waist about 45 degrees and using a dumbbell. You should be able to do 8 clean reps with roughly 9% of your 1RM Close Grip Bench.
Hanging from a bar with a pronated mid-grip. Posterior pelvic tilt, tuck the chin in, flex the hip with knee's locked to 60 degree's above the waist line.
Most people should just stick with a regular Ab crunch and work in their range. Garhammers are not for everyone, especially females.
No disrespect intended, but how many female's can really hold their body weight, and then raise approx. 50% of their bodyweight in a fix line of pull?
A vast majority simply do not posess the upperbody strength.
@GTSPerformance You're right, garhammer isn't anywhere near as hard as stall bar hanging leg lifts, it's essentially a much easier partial ROM HLL with nothing forcing the shoulders to stay under the hands. The reason I mentioned stall bar HLL is that it is a staple exercise in gymnastics for both males and females.
The main difference between men and women is that you're more likely to find men with some degree of resistance training fitness than you are women in the general population.
@slizzardman The reason people go with a garhammer over a full hanging leg lift, is that when you lower your knee's below 90 degress (in relation to your torso) your hip flexors (psoas, illiacus etc) are recruited and take a lot of the load away from your abdominals.
Hitting your HF's isn't necessarily bad, and has it's time and place. But when a person is specifically trying to target rectus abdominus as the agonist in a movement, garhammers are a better option.
@hendrixian1 Psoas recruitment is solely an issue of pelvic tilt, not knee height. Rectus femoris controls the knee up to 90+ degrees of hip flexion, and the psoas tends to tilt the hips after that which causes the knee to raise further. The reason you'd use 60 degrees is that with the pelvis only able to move about 30-40 degrees posterior due to the function of the lumbar spine and sacral area that gets your legs right at parallel with the ground, where resistance is greatest.
@hendrixian1 To continue, you are going to have one hell of a time targeting rectus abdominus without involving psoas. There is nothing wrong with having strong psoas, in fact you NEED to have strong psoas. They are the primary muscle responsible for resisting anterior pelvic tilt. Likewise you're going to have an incredibly hard time activating psoas without involving rectus abdominus.
There's nothing wrong with garhammers, but you have some misinformation that needs to be ironed out.
@slizzardman Actually I think it is you who needs to review your own sources of information:
1) I didn't say doing garhammer's didn't "involve psoas". I said it made the rectus muscle the AGONIST. The psoas then becomes the synergist (rather than the other way around).
2) Excessive psoas work is more often the CAUSE of anterior pelvic tilt, due to a relative weakness in the posterior chain causing psoas to shorten.
Maybe iron out your own anatomical knowledge before criticising mine?
@hendrixian1 I have done so, and I think you are a bit off. I believe what we are both trying to say is that you have to perform a posterior tilt of the pelvis to activate rectus. This happens independently of leg flexion. Garhammers are a great way to force people into this action in a hanging position, and are a good introduction to this type of movement. Lowering the legs has very little to do with activating the hip flexors and a lot more to do with giving greater mechanical advantage.
@hendrixian1 To continue, psoas will be under more load the closer the legs are to parallel with the ground. They have to hold them there and handle the acceleration isometrically as you perform reps. The more you straighten the legs the harder things will get for both muscles. I apologize for misinterpreting what you said, you did not claim psoas did not work.
@hendrixian1 As for #2, your explanation points not to an excess of psoas work but rather a lack of appropriate posterior chain work. This makes sense on a practical level as well, since most people hate doing posterior chain work, and lower body in general, thus leading to this issue. At any rate, shortness is a much bigger issue than strength, and that is caused by relative hypertonicity. Proper stretching along with posterior chain work is the better answer, not limiting psoas work.
@hendrixian1 Also, I was wrong about psoas recruitment being solely a function of pelvic tilt, it's not. I don't know what I was thinking when I said that. Clearly nothing accurate, that's for sure. I was thinking more about iliacus, and even then that's really more due to the position of the pelvis in space relative to the primary force it is acting against.
You do still need strong psoas to work rectus effectively though, at least in garhammer or HLL-type movements where the legs/hips move.
@slizzardman Yeah I can agree with that. I think I just explained myself poorly the first time. The reason I felt garhammer's to be more effective in recruiting rectus as a prime mover whilst limiting psoas (when compared to leg raises) is because bending your knees at 90 degrees effectively shortens the resistance arm (caused by a gravitational pull on your legs) between your hips and lower extremities. Therefore allowing a greater focus to be placed on the pelvic tilt portion of the movement.
@CCampLI That is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a long time. "People should just keep doing what they are doing, they shouldn't try to get stronger" is what you are saying. Ab crunches are nowhere near as good for sport performance as any level of hanging leg lift work. This free-hanging work is much, much easier than using a stall bar and thus limits the effectiveness, but that's a separate issue.
Why are you against people making progress? Are you having trouble getting stronger?
I assume that he is working trap 3. Why is he retracting the shoulder blade though? 1) Opposite leg forward(which he is doing) 2) Supinate the wrist 3) Raise the chest 4) The arm goes across the body through the shoulder with a parallel hand grip. The whole idea of going through the shoulder rather than around is to not use the rotator cuff.
Is this a "motified" trap 3 lift?
CCampLI 3 years ago
This is a modified or another trap 3 exercise.
Retract the shoulder blade first so the scapula is braced up against the rib cage. Better recruitment then.
GTSPerformance 3 years ago
Makes sense.
CCampLI 3 years ago
Watch for a video on my youtube page. I'll make a video of both exercises and post within the next two days.
GTSPerformance 3 years ago
So this is the exercise for the Lower Trap on Poliquin's Structural Balance Assessment. Good to know. Can You please tell me how much an athlete is supposed to lift in this exercise in relation to his 1RM Close Grip Bench Press?
Achilles248 3 years ago
It's not the trap 3 test exericse. It's just a good one to strengthen the trap 3. Poliquin's structural balance trap 3 is with one arm on an incline bench and you're bent over at the waist about 45 degrees and using a dumbbell. You should be able to do 8 clean reps with roughly 9% of your 1RM Close Grip Bench.
GTSPerformance 3 years ago
That is valuable information. Thanks!
Achilles248 3 years ago
Garhammer raise-
Hanging from a bar with a pronated mid-grip. Posterior pelvic tilt, tuck the chin in, flex the hip with knee's locked to 60 degree's above the waist line.
Most people should just stick with a regular Ab crunch and work in their range. Garhammers are not for everyone, especially females.
CCampLI 3 years ago
I respectfully disagree about the ab crunch. And why can't females do the garhammer raise. Poliquin himself has had females do them.
No exercise is for everyone.
GTSPerformance 3 years ago
No disrespect intended, but how many female's can really hold their body weight, and then raise approx. 50% of their bodyweight in a fix line of pull?
A vast majority simply do not posess the upperbody strength.
CCampLI 3 years ago
All of the one's I train.
GTSPerformance 3 years ago
@GTSPerformance You're right, garhammer isn't anywhere near as hard as stall bar hanging leg lifts, it's essentially a much easier partial ROM HLL with nothing forcing the shoulders to stay under the hands. The reason I mentioned stall bar HLL is that it is a staple exercise in gymnastics for both males and females.
The main difference between men and women is that you're more likely to find men with some degree of resistance training fitness than you are women in the general population.
slizzardman 1 year ago
@slizzardman The reason people go with a garhammer over a full hanging leg lift, is that when you lower your knee's below 90 degress (in relation to your torso) your hip flexors (psoas, illiacus etc) are recruited and take a lot of the load away from your abdominals.
Hitting your HF's isn't necessarily bad, and has it's time and place. But when a person is specifically trying to target rectus abdominus as the agonist in a movement, garhammers are a better option.
Just my 2 cents :)
hendrixian1 11 months ago
@hendrixian1 Psoas recruitment is solely an issue of pelvic tilt, not knee height. Rectus femoris controls the knee up to 90+ degrees of hip flexion, and the psoas tends to tilt the hips after that which causes the knee to raise further. The reason you'd use 60 degrees is that with the pelvis only able to move about 30-40 degrees posterior due to the function of the lumbar spine and sacral area that gets your legs right at parallel with the ground, where resistance is greatest.
slizzardman 10 months ago
@hendrixian1 To continue, you are going to have one hell of a time targeting rectus abdominus without involving psoas. There is nothing wrong with having strong psoas, in fact you NEED to have strong psoas. They are the primary muscle responsible for resisting anterior pelvic tilt. Likewise you're going to have an incredibly hard time activating psoas without involving rectus abdominus.
There's nothing wrong with garhammers, but you have some misinformation that needs to be ironed out.
slizzardman 10 months ago
@slizzardman Actually I think it is you who needs to review your own sources of information:
1) I didn't say doing garhammer's didn't "involve psoas". I said it made the rectus muscle the AGONIST. The psoas then becomes the synergist (rather than the other way around).
2) Excessive psoas work is more often the CAUSE of anterior pelvic tilt, due to a relative weakness in the posterior chain causing psoas to shorten.
Maybe iron out your own anatomical knowledge before criticising mine?
hendrixian1 9 months ago
@hendrixian1 I have done so, and I think you are a bit off. I believe what we are both trying to say is that you have to perform a posterior tilt of the pelvis to activate rectus. This happens independently of leg flexion. Garhammers are a great way to force people into this action in a hanging position, and are a good introduction to this type of movement. Lowering the legs has very little to do with activating the hip flexors and a lot more to do with giving greater mechanical advantage.
slizzardman 9 months ago
@hendrixian1 To continue, psoas will be under more load the closer the legs are to parallel with the ground. They have to hold them there and handle the acceleration isometrically as you perform reps. The more you straighten the legs the harder things will get for both muscles. I apologize for misinterpreting what you said, you did not claim psoas did not work.
slizzardman 9 months ago
@hendrixian1 As for #2, your explanation points not to an excess of psoas work but rather a lack of appropriate posterior chain work. This makes sense on a practical level as well, since most people hate doing posterior chain work, and lower body in general, thus leading to this issue. At any rate, shortness is a much bigger issue than strength, and that is caused by relative hypertonicity. Proper stretching along with posterior chain work is the better answer, not limiting psoas work.
slizzardman 9 months ago
@hendrixian1 Also, I was wrong about psoas recruitment being solely a function of pelvic tilt, it's not. I don't know what I was thinking when I said that. Clearly nothing accurate, that's for sure. I was thinking more about iliacus, and even then that's really more due to the position of the pelvis in space relative to the primary force it is acting against.
You do still need strong psoas to work rectus effectively though, at least in garhammer or HLL-type movements where the legs/hips move.
slizzardman 9 months ago
@slizzardman Yeah I can agree with that. I think I just explained myself poorly the first time. The reason I felt garhammer's to be more effective in recruiting rectus as a prime mover whilst limiting psoas (when compared to leg raises) is because bending your knees at 90 degrees effectively shortens the resistance arm (caused by a gravitational pull on your legs) between your hips and lower extremities. Therefore allowing a greater focus to be placed on the pelvic tilt portion of the movement.
hendrixian1 9 months ago
@CCampLI That is the most ridiculous thing I have read in a long time. "People should just keep doing what they are doing, they shouldn't try to get stronger" is what you are saying. Ab crunches are nowhere near as good for sport performance as any level of hanging leg lift work. This free-hanging work is much, much easier than using a stall bar and thus limits the effectiveness, but that's a separate issue.
Why are you against people making progress? Are you having trouble getting stronger?
slizzardman 1 year ago