those young dumbass kids who play xbox and wii think war is a game and think it counts as training. See what happens if we go to war against Iran or China.
hi all, after months of talking to the school administration, I got permission to show Hamburger Hill to my American History junior and senior classes. I thought it would be a nice break from the lectures on the Vietnam conflict. So i showed the movie, not ONE word came from the students you cuold hear a pin drop, dead slience and everyone was glued to the screen.
I received a a few phone calls from family members who served they all thanked me for showing this movie to the students. take care
what a spoiled nation shaming their soidlers after going through all that fighting come back to get the mark of shame one hell of a nationg that stands together....by the way i to will be doing my time ive enrolled in to the marines im a little nervice and alredy broke up with my girl friend well hope for the best.
I'm 41 years old and British. I was born at the right time and in the right place to never be called by my country. As a result, Ive seen seen people older and younger than me die in my place. I've had the chance to shake the hand of a Desert Rat - my grandad. And I still hope to shake the hand of a Battle Of Britain pilot. And more than anything, I would wish to shake the hand of any man who was here, and experienced hell on my behalf. My gratitude and respect will never die.
I love this theme, it sounds so dark yet heroic at the same time. This along with the theme "Ruins" from Full Metal Jacket really makes me imagine what it must've been like for all the soldiers.
I served with a number of American veterans of the Vietnam War as a trooper in the Rhodesian Army 1979-80...can I just say how much I admire you ouens!
One of my absolute favorite movies, this OST gives me the chills everytime i hear it, its a great opener in the movie, this played and showing pictures of the wall in washington.
I ask every man who listens to this to read the battle for hill 937 during May 10th-20th 1969. U.S. losses during the ten-day battle reportedly totaled 72 dead and 372 wounded, the hill was quietly abandoned on June 5th by Major General John M. Wright. Remember the bravery of the men of the 101st.
@TheUnknownAgenda I'm a Recon Marine and the bravery of the 101st and the taking of 937 is what inspired me, my dad took part in that fight and not that this has any meaning coming from me but "Airborne, All the way!!!!".
To all the peace lovers ,who shamed the vets when they came home and even now ,US UK ETC,THEY FIGHT SO YOU CAN HAVE THE FREEDOM TO OPEN YOUR BIG FAT TRAPS
@willready2 i'm all 4 peace but i understand & admire what countless men & women have & continue 2 do 2 give us the many freedoms we enjoy.i think those protesters were stupid & wht they did was evil & wrong.anybody who risks their lives for someone else---their country, do not deserve that kind of hate.they deserve our gratitude,attention,& love.so i'm saying peace would b a nice change but there isn't...yet. either way i support all our armed forces from vietnam to where we are now.
@willready2 Yes. We all should give thanks to CCTV being everywhere, the TSA groping 8 and 98 year olds, the drug running CIA, the farcical elections, the military industrial complex making uber bucks off of war (read Smedley Butler's War is Racket), the corporations which own practically everything, and the banks which rake in the money off of toxic loans and egregious usury.
Time to pull your head out of your ass and smell the roses. Soldiers defend the status quo. Not the citizens.
@willready2 not exactly...these man and many others gave their lives so the US could prosper as the most powerful nation on Earth. That provided great material porperity to american citzens, and indirectly creat a cenario where free inttelectual debate could flourish. But it is done through the suffering of millions of people. It's the same mecanisns of an elite exploring the majority of the population, a trend that has been going on since the beggining of history. maybe it could be different
@jackasslobo if not the us or before them the english etc etc then who ,,i know to all the peace loving intelectual ,how about IRAN OR SYRIA ,SAUDI ARABIA ,SUDAN,EGYPT ,,BETTER A DEMOCRACY THAN THAT LOT TO NAME BUT A FEW
poor wanker,as if war is the solution to anything,you are a tool of yer government,like the hundreds of thousands of brainless wankers who think it´s nice to get slaughtered for some politicians dream(s),fucking idot,that´s what YOU are
@sideburnbasher Cunt that has never ever been on active service until you have keep your bullshit views to yourselve i wear many medals from different conflicts waged by different Govts,,,,Do you sleep eay at night twat,
Now i readily admit you got a point, but the death toll is in the end irrelevant, because I did not mean the Vietnam war was bloodier and more ruthless than ANY other conflict.
Civilians dying in War is reality. Every since the industrial revolution and the advances in War technology, civilians have suffered more and more. Post WW1, civilians dying in War is natural. A reality.
Lets not make up shit here. That is another overwhelming exaggeration. 50 million Chinese were killed in the Great Leap forward. 15 million Chinese were killed via Japanese bombing. Almost 20 million Soviet civilians were killed by the Germans and its Allies. To say that Vietnam is more ruthless towards civilians than these events is ridiculous.
The difference is that Vietnam was a conflict fought by America, and thus accountable to American standards!! Japan was a ruthless society, and so was Germany, the Soviet Union, China and so on. I'm not arguing the Vietnam war was bloodier or more ruthless than ww2 for Pete's sake!! Please, get this into your head: the Vietnam war was terrible in a western context and it's placed in a western context by the fact a western nation foguht it!
@Faxe90Swe I see what you're saying. But Germany is technically a Western Nation also. The French are a Western nation.
Vietnam snowballed. As I said, it was a disaster. No arguing that. You say that Korea was a justified War. But you forget that 2.5 million civilians were killed in that conflict, and like Vietnam the suffering of civilians was mostly from the result of indigenous Armies in political jockeying.
Yeah, but Germany is an exception. Its military was not accountable to civilian authorities. "An Army with a state" as you know. I say America's intervention was justified, and the conduct of the war was admirable. America bear very little guilt, if any, to the dead civilians in Korea. In Vietnam, America was guilty - of course not on the level of the NVA or Vietcong, but still.
It goes under the epithet "the Forgotten War" I hear. It even took you a while to erect a monument for those who fought and died. Yet, America had "only" 38,000 combat casualties in that war. Granted, though, the Korean war was comparatively short. It's really strange no one talks much about it. The fighting retreat of the marines was a greater epic than the Bulge in my opinion.
@Faxe90Swe Well we agree to disagree. I think those boys in Nam deserve my utmost respect. And I am going to give it them, and no offense it doesn't matter what you think of the conflict, because you aren't American. And again no offense, you're Swedish, so by default your perception of the War is skewed. You seem like a decent guy, so I won't attack your character anymore. But that was one fine generation of men regardless of what you think.
I respect them, for different reasons. They endured hell on so many levels that no other American generation has done before or since. The climate and terrain was unforgiving, the enemy likewise. The helicopter made redeployment faster than ever and thus left soldiers without much respite as they went from one battlefield to the next. On top of that they had no support back home. They were made scapegoats for the war's misconduct and overall failure. "A Grunt can take it"
@Faxe90Swe They went through hell yes. In my opinion though, I believe the nastiest, most ruthless battles in US military history took place at Iwo Jima, Peleliu, and Okinawa. Horrible conditions, meaning some of the nastiest environments you could imagine, against a fanatical enemy who refused to surrender, and intelligence not being what it should, due to the fact that many times they faced a subterranean enemy. Who spent sometimes months before the battle constructed amazing fortresses.
On the other hand the ww2 American soldier wasn't engaged as often. I saw some statistics once that showed, I think, that the average time a ww2 American soldier spent in active fighting was two weeks out of one year, whereas the Vietnam soldier spent ten weeks in active fighting in one year. But as for the nature of the actual fighting, ww2 was worse, granted, as is reflected by the casualties. The roughly 3 1/2 years of fighting in the Pacific alone cost 109,000 dead.
@Faxe90Swe Right but on places like Peleliu and Iwo, you could have up to 1,000 casualties in one day. And the casualty rate was much higher because on Peleliu for instance you had only 1 division fighting by itself for over a month.
Korea was fucking horrible man. The Chinese for instance DID NOT take prisoners. Killing fields as far as the eye can sea. Dead stacked on top of one another. Dead used as sandbags in desperate and futile human wave attacks that were destroyed in detail. Korea was one giant killing field my man.
You're mssing my point again. Why am i so against the Vietnam war and its conduct? Because the collateral damage, that is the killing of civilians, was horrible, three times as many civilians were killed as soldiers. Korea, hell even the Western front of ww1, was less ruthless IN THAT RESPECT. The bodies stacked in Korea were the bodies of soldiers, not civilians. Soldiers dying in a war is not very outrageous, in my opinion, it's quite natural.
@Faxe90Swe Three times as many civilians were killed than soldiers. That is not true my man. Some historians argue that civilians casualties in Vietnam and Cambodia could have been as low as 400,000. Most say it is about 1,000,000. The NVA lost almost 2 million killed. And many civilians were killed by the NVA and VC..
@Faxe90Swe I don't say I am an expert. My dad and uncle are the experts. I am not the one making crass generalizations about the men who fought and died in that horrid arm pit of the world. What is your purpose here? What are you trying to prove? That America is a piece of shit? Fine. Think that way. You won't be the first or last European that despises America. Vietnam was a disaster, everyone knows that. But you make it seem as though we went over there just to kill civilians. That's a lie.
No my friend, it is you who make it seem that way. Because you don't read what I write, or you can't read what i write, or you simply distort it intentionally. I don't despise America. I don't know what the problem is, but you just won't understand my points. Maybe because you decided from day one "this is an anti-American commie" you haven't even bothered trying to see what I write. Nice of you to realize Vietnam was a disaster, though.
@Faxe90Swe You obviously don't read what I write. I said that we shouldn't have gone to Nam about an hour ago.
That anger that you feel when I say Swedes fought for the SS, is similar to the Way that I feel when you say that killing civilians was common practice. Illegal killings were court marshaled and GIs were persecuted to the fullest extent of military law.
@StonewallJackson26 That anger was not for the Swedes that fought in the SS, it was for the lies you implied. That Sweden as a nation supported Nazi Germany and aided her with men and material! And i still say killing civilians was common, but I won't go through the free fire zone-shit again, I've already done that. What you shot in a free fire zone didn't get you prosecuted and court-martialed, it was legit to shoot EVERYONE in such a zone.
@Faxe90Swe Free fire zones existed in VC strongholds. Usually with the highest concentration of enemy movement or operations. There were no mass shootings of civilians in Nam. Were civilians killed, absolutely, a sad reality of War, but Vietnam was no genocide.
The Korean war was good on every level. A communist nation attacked a non-communist nation. America, as part of it's containment doctrine, went there to make things right. The war was fought by uniformed soldiers by conventional methods. The American leaders had a clear objective with no strings attached to it. It was not ruthless in the relativeness of the history of war.
@Faxe90Swe whoa whoa. The Civil War was a good? Wow! Americans killing Americans. Shermans march to the sea. The horrid conditions at prison camps like Andersonville and other prison camps up North. Parlay was not always given a prisoners were shot at times. You are talking nonsense again.
By war's relativeness, yes. During Napoleon's war in the Iberian Peninsula French prisoners were boiled alive, skinned alive, even forced to eat their own limbs. The French in turn systematically destated the countryside, wiping out entire villages. But you think that is as ruthless as the civil war?
Millions of refugees fled to the US, for fear of reprisal by the North and Vietcong in particular. Any anti Communist collaborator was killed. This what I am talking about. Calling the Vietcong Heroes is ridiculous! You say some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard spewed on YouTube.
Again you intepret my words as the Devil interprets the Bible. I said that for the Vietnamese people the Vietcong were heroes. They had fought victoriously over two foreign powers and was going on their third. The American revolutionaries are heroes to you, yes? Yet to an outsider it's not that black and white, because the patriots did some atrocities too. Like hanging every prisoner after a battle. Both sides did that that shit, yet both were heroes to their supporters.
I think my father being a Vietnam vet gives me a little more insight then you. Yeah! I am going to go ahead and say that I know more. Europe's version of the events that took place in Nam are very different then how it is portrayed in the US. And what you say, is completely contradictory to my father's and uncle's testimony to what they saw and heard.
I've only read American books on the subject!! And exactly, maybe the Vietnamese didn't want your freedom, because freedom to them with all that it carries with it was as alien to them as it would be for medieval Europeans.
And you should write with very small letters concerning historical accuracy and falshoods. You said outright that the Swedish nation supported and even aided Nazi Germany with men and material! That is a falsehood, that is an exaggeration!
Oh, this again. It's a bloody fucking huge difference between a few private persons signing up for a foreign army and saying that their nation supported and aided that nation! Americans fought in the SS too.
This is the end of this debate. You're simply too stupid, too illiterate, too bigoted and with the horizon of an ant. My writing to you is as pearls for swines, you're too dumb, in the sense of retarded. I really mean it, you can't fucking read proper arguing.
@Faxe90Swe The only idiot is you! An idiot who sees only one side of history. You are a typical European, brainwashed by your politically correct, liberal media. I hope your feelings towards American servicemen changes in the near future. You obviously have issues with my country and you lower yourself to lying and manipulating the truth of events. You sir bring a new meaning to the term stupid.
Thank you for proving my point one last time. My only issue with America is that it's populated by a disproportionate number of people like you; and that's not rethorics, it's very close to the truth. From my channel you seem to have aquired my nationality, so why don't you go back there and do some reading and you'll see how anti-American I am.
@Faxe90Swe I said I was against the war you arrogant son of a bitch. I am not a fanatic. It just makes my blood boil when I see people like you presume that you are an expert in warfare. You're insufferably pretentious, and you seem like you think very highly of yourself. You can't stand any criticism of your own country instead troll a channel commemorating the loss of fine young men. And instead of honoring them you ensue a keyboard crusade that presents them unfairly.
Wow, deranged is not the proper word for you, but I don't think the proper word hasn't been invented yet. I rather think I have explained and justified the atrocities of American soldiers in that war, explained the context and circumstances that made it such a tragedy. I have openly written that the GI:s were not to blame. And i can stand criticism of my country, but not outrageous lies.
@Faxe90Swe You are a miserable man who demeans and insults people who disagree with your idealistic interpretation of the world. You are not a realistic. If GIs are not to blame, which they weren't. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE HERE??????
That the Vietnam war was an unjust war in the diplomatic and political sense. That the Vietnam war was conducted by America in a way that was diametrically opposed to what America stands for as well as illegal. Fought in a ruthless way which guaranteed contra-productive results and thus was a meaningless war on every level. In short, the Vietnam war was unjust on every conceivable level.
@Faxe90Swe EVERY FUCKING WAR IS RUTHLESS. Understand this. The original intent in Vietnam was noble, but in retrospect we never should have went there, because it snowballed into a conflict that was not winnable, and the realization of how corrupt the ARVN was didn't become apparent until after the Tet Offensive.
By western standards, the Vietnam war was very ruthless, as ruthless as the Algerian war or the Indochina war. The British in Malaya and Palestine or India are examples of how you can be less ruthless.
And i've never used the term genocide. I simply say that in Vietnam a lot of civilians died because of American military policies. I do not say it was deliberate, only that the circumstances created by American policies made it very likely for civvies to get caught up.
@Faxe90Swe By Western standards any war is ruthless. Nam was no more ruthless than the War against Japan or the War against Korea. Or the Civil War, or any other War that America has fought. The difference in Nam is that it was an overall failure. The Vets of Vietnam are still to this day treated poorly because Vietnam was deemed as a War fought for nothing. If America would have won, and if Communism had been crushed. The War would be presented in a much different light.
It's different with counter-insurgency warfare. From Napoleon's struggle in Spain to present day Afghanistan, collateral damage is inherent in counter-insurgency warfare.
The Civil war was a "good" war. In that war a wounded soldier could expect care and shelter from the enemy's medical services, the fighting was between uniformed soldiers; you knew who the enemy was at first sight.
Even though ruthless counter-insurgency operations were part of that war, in Missouri especially, it was just one aspect of the war: in Vietnam it was the other way around, with conventional fighting like Khe Sahn and the Hill Fights being the exception.
@Faxe90Swe The battle of Petersburg, the battle of Antietam, Cold Harbor, Shermans campaigns in the deep South, where he kicked reporters and unit historians out of his Army, while he laid waste to Southern homesteads. Brutality of the highest extent my man.
@Faxe90Swe You talk like a schmuck. Your pretentiousness is overwhelming. You speak as if you were actually there.It is easy to give your opinion when you weren't there. Then calling the VC "heroes" was the icing on the cake. This is a channel honoring the sacrifices made by men in regards to their friends and units. This isn't a channel to criticize American servicemen. Find another channel for that. Or better yet go whine in the streets. It is easy to give your opinion when you weren't there.
You're like the commies in Europe, only instead of labeling me a racist for not wanting mass immigration, you label me anti-American for having negative views of a war that only a fanatic like you can defend.
And just so you know, liberal has a different meaning in Europe than it has in America. I am a European liberal, but a European liberal is like a moderate American Democrat. But as I said, the horizon of an ant.
The Vietcong had been murdering Vietnamese all the way back to 1954 you Shmuck. They were first inducted as a resistance to French influence. Throughout the late 50's and early 60's they had killed political prisoners, slaughtered civilians with the utmost savagery. Get your facts straight dip shit.
The Vietcong sprang up already during the Japanese occupation as Vietminh. They first fought the Japanese, then the French, and won. They were heroes in both North and South. That may explain why the South voted for communism, because it was something that the Vietcong stood for. Then America, yet another foreign power, stepped in. The Vietcong did what it had always done, fighting the invaders.
@Faxe90Swe HEROES! OH MY GOD! You are brainwashed! The VC were animals who were especially notorious for decapitating civilians, sticking their heads on pikes as a warning to Nationalists. You have no idea what they South did to terrorize and scare their people into submission. Why do you think so many South Vietnamese refugees fled their country?
It was only after American intervention that the Vietcong turned to murdering their own people, just as they had murdered those Vietnamese who had collaborated with the Japanese and French.
You act as if only Americans killed civilians. The VC killed loads of civilians, their own people. Don't you see how bad Communism is? The USSR conducted Holomodor that killed 7 million Ukrainians, the Great Leap forward that killed 50 million Chinese, the North Korean invasion of the South that killed 2 million South Koreans, mostly civilians. Everywhere Communism goes people die in mass numbers. Communism has killed more than Fascism has.
Yes son, communism is bad, I haven't said anything else. But we were talking about the American conduct of the war, not the communist, didn't we? And i haven't compared your conduct as being as bad as the communist. I only criticise America by western standards because America was once a beacon for those standards and should therefore be accountable to them. You'd expect better from America, but not from the communists. They're in different leagues.
And just so you know, you did lose the war. Exactly because of this strategy which made it very difficult for soldiers to earn this trust. The only ones that succeeded were the special forces, because their covert and discrete sort of warfare allowed them to discriminate enemy from friend much more easily than a regular GI thrown around the battlefields and thus entirely clueless about local conditions. The SP operated extended periods in the same location, and thus could form a judgement.
The Americans in Vietnam were trying to earn the trust of the Vietnamese, without their trust the War would never have been won. Generals telling their men to kill civilians is counter productive, because it contradicts the purpose of the War. They were trying to install democracy in that region, if they killed civilians regularly, how could America have ever hoped for the Vietnamese to embrace democracy?
If you'd listened to my earlier replies, and not interpreted them as the devil interprets the Bible, maybe you'd realized I'm not "pissing" on the soldiers. Apart from a few massacres, the soldier was not to blame, but the circumstances he was put in by his leaders. Such a strategy is bound to lead to a high civilian death tool no matter what army is subjected to it. You get my meaning!!??
@Faxe90Swe That same communism that slaughtered countless South Vietnamese via the Vietcong. Ho Chi Minh terrorized the South and sued them with violence if they didn't succumb to the Communist power. That is why my comment is top rated because people agree with me. You are an idiot, who agrees with himself. You haven't a clue of what you're talking about.
Wow, you got the majority! Majority makes it a truth, is that what you're saying? Hmm, didn't that happen in Germany too?besides, it's not top rated anymore it seems.
Well, you see, the South Vietnamese generally weren't literate, and they had no TV, so the previous and ongoing crimes of Communism didn't reach their attention. The VC didn't terrorize until AFTER American intervention. Anyhow anywhy, the fact is the South Vietnamese voted for a Communist party.
@Faxe90Swe Oh yes! You know it all! You have all the knowledge and answers! A Swede with no personal correlation to the War, preaching to someone that who two close family members serve in the War. When Kennedy sent advisers to Nam, it was under the faith that the ARVN would fight and secure their own political liberation. The US saw it as their responsibility, seeing as it was the US who defeated Japan, the country who had previously ruled them, before the French were ousted.
You got to be really dumb, in the most basic sense of the word, to believe you have some kind of inherent perfect knowledge of the war because you had relatives in it.
And the only person who is ranting is yourself. My father and uncle served in Vietnam, they told me many stories. You are a Swede has knows only what your liberal textbooks tell you. I am willing to bet my life that I know more about Vietnam then you do. Seeing as that my family was actually there.
Wow, you are stupid. As for my textbooks, I don't think many of them are liberal. You know why? Because desperate (but a little smarter) people like you have flooded the literature with justifcations and excuses for what went wrong in that war. Thing is, they explain WHY it went wrong, they don't DENY that it did, as you do.
Yeah, maybe you're genetically favored when it comes to knowledge of the Vietnam war... err, no, because it doesn't work that way.
@Faxe90Swe I don't care what your position is dipshit. I don't think we should have went there either. The Vietnamese weren't worth the effort. They obviously didn't embrace freedom or justice for their people. So I am against the War. My problem with you is that almost everything you say is exaggeration and falsehood. And definitely not historically accurate by any means.
As i've previously stated, South Vietnam was a democracy before American intervention. American intervention wasn't to create democracy, but to destroy it's results: the Vietnamese majority voted for a Communist party, and America didn't like that. And I haven't said that Americans were told by their generals to kill civilians: it happend because every circumstance was there to make civilians a target.
OH MY GOD YOU'RE STUPID!!!! AMERICANS WERE COURT MARSHALED FOR KILLING CIVILIANS IN NAM! DON'T YOU GET IT! IT WAS NOT AN ACCEPTED PRACTICE. SOME AMERICAN MARINES AND GIS WERE JAILED AND EXECUTED FOR CRIMES. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR FUCKING HEAD!
I have known it all along, what are you ranting about? Of course Americans were faced with court-martial (not court marshall, lol). But how often could it be proven? It's like for a rancher to prove his live-stock was killed by a wolf. And group pressure and solidarity often meant things didn't get reported. The thing is the majority of civilian deaths at the hands of Americans was unintentional, due to the body count doctrine and free fire zones!! You're the slow one!
Fact is, the US military did not condone illegal killings and hundreds of soldiers were persecuted for crimes. Some where even executed. Individual Swedes joined and fought with the SS, and individual Americans killed civilians in Nam. Both are true. Unfortunately in your small mind, you believe that only Americans deserve scrutiny.
Thing is that the individual Swedes in the SS were private persons with no links to the Swedish state or government. The individual American soldiers were part of an American institution, fighting an American war for American politicians. if you can't tell the difference I pity you.
But even more important is the free fire zones. Once the enemy had been located and an American offensive began, his general area of operation became a free fire zone, where EVERYONE was a legit target. As i said in a previous reply, the blame is not on the GI:s, but on the white-collar men who developed these strategies. I've not blamed the soldier per se, but his superiors at Pentagon and the White House.
Swedes sheltered British and American pilots in 1944, after it was certain that Germany would lose the War. Sweden was playing both sides of the fence. Sheltering Allied pilots was a way for Sweden to gain the grace of the Allied powers. Sweden embraced Nazi Germany and as I said, a point you can't refute. The SS conscripted Swedes into their ranks. That is fact. Since we are mudslinging, I thought I'd sling some back.
Not to mention your home country of Sweden complied with Nazi Germany. Sending men and material to fight in Hitler's ranks. Some of which finding their way into the Nazi SS. 5th Panzer SS Wiking Division was personally responsible for the slaughter of countless Jews and civilians, and the division was comprised of many Swedes.
Now you're getting silly, or desperate since you haft to lie. Sweden as a country didn't send "men and material" to Nazi Germany. That would have made us a bellligerent, but we were neutral. We let one German division cross our territory and exported iron ore to Germany. And of course individual Swedes volunteered for nazi service, but so did British, American, French, Spanish, Finnish, Norwegian, Danish people as well. So what's you point?
@Faxe90Swe Bullshit, there were Swedes in the SS, don't lie. My point bringing this up is that you have spent the better part of 2 months bashing the US military. Just shedding light on some of Sweden's wrong doings. Don't act as if your shit doesn't stink.
You fucking moron, i said individual Swedes did serve in the nazi army, including the SS, but Sweden as a state did not send troops or material to the nazis. if you really believe that you need to do some serious research you dumb bigot.
@Faxe90Swe Now I am a bigot. You asshole have spent the last two months pissing on dead Americans in Nam. So I retaliated and bashed your Sweden. Now you're upset. Well fuck you! If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
I haven't blatantly lied at any point, which you do now! I can bash without lying, because i know your history better than yourself. On several points in this debate you've fallen silent without any counter arguments, so i guess i got something right.
The SS enlisted individual Swedes, yes ffs, i have admitted that, but that's not the same as Sweden supporting Nazi Germany!! The SS recruited from all Scandinavian countries and the whole Western world!!!
And we saved allied pilots in 1943 you lying dipshit. "If you can't take it, don't dish it out." You are doing something completely else, with outright fucking lies!!! Or maybe you're actually so dumb you believe it. Well, READ A BOOK
@Faxe90Swe Ok I see. We can bash the entire US military for the actions of individuals. But Sweden should be spared from blame when individual Swedes joined the SS. What a hypocrite you are. You should hold your own country to the same standards as you hold America to. Once I turn the tables you get butt hurt. You become vicious and angry. Well fuck you very much.
And by the Way. You know nothing about Vietnam. Only what your liberal textbooks tell you.
You're so unbelievably deranged i can't believe it. Every got damn western nation had citizens in the SS. So because of that, America is forever immune from criticism from these countries? Even though Sweden hasn't been commited to imperialism as the US have, never persecuted a people in modern times as the US have, never been at war for 200 years, we're on the same level as America because 315 Swedes joined the SS? Wow, your logic is splendid.
@Faxe90Swe OK MORON!!!!! I was arguing, saying that civilian deaths in Nam were perpetrated by individuals, not the military as a whole. I used Swedish soldiers in the SS as part of an argument, trying to explain my point. Individuals do not represent countries. Individual Swedes fought with the SS, not Sweden as a whole. Just like individual American killed civilians in Nam, not America as a whole. I used it as an example.
Thing is that the individual Swedes in the SS were private persons with no links to the Swedish state or government. The individual American soldiers were part of an American institution, fighting an American war for American politicians. if you can't tell the difference I pity you.
The body count doctrine was about going where the enemy was and kill him, not seizing and holding territory as in previous wars. Thus Americans never secured any territory, a place recently cleared was filled with enemies the next year because the Americans moved along. This meant Americans could never be sure about a region. This confusion is partly to blame for the high civilians death toll.
Are a nation to be held responsible for what a handful of individuals did?! In that case i can tell you that far more American served in the Whermacht than Swedes.
"rogue units"? YEAH, THOSE UNITS JUSTIFY THE BASHING OF AMERICA BECAUSE THEY WORE THE AMERICAN FLAG ON THEIR UNIFORM!! THE SWEDES IN THE SS WORE THE SVASTIKAM BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T SWEDISH SOLDIERS, THEY WERE INDIVIDUAL PRIVATE SWEDES SERVING ANOTHER COUNTRY1! IT'S A CERTAIN DIFFERENCE!!!
@Faxe90Swe You are arguing a very fine line here. So what if they had a flag on their uniform. Illegal killing were court martial events fuck stick. That is fact. God you are hypocritical.
I hate, I mean, seriously hate how America treated Vietnam Veterans. I wish I could go back in time and round up all the narrow minded people and throw them in the same jungle our veterans left behind, at least physically. They left hell to come back to horrible treatment and the no one, government, nobody, stood up for them and left them to die on the streets of our country. America the beautiful?
Why do people slag off the brave men who fought in this 1 of a thousand plus battles in history ,may they all rest in peace ,right or wrong ,only time will tell,but the saying goes is for good men to do nothing is for evil to strife
Vietnam was a victory for the anglo-saxon capitalist war machine. After dropping more bombs on that little country, that poor country, they showed the region that you are not allowed to run you own country without the U.S. permission.
I still love this film the best. Platoon tried to glamorises the war, make it almost cool, FMJ is a great film too (2nd favourite) but I love this film's humble existence. I only know of it because my Dad is an avid war film watcher and I remember watching it when I was younger.
I love the way it's no frills style depicts the changing characteristics of Alphabet & Beinstock & co, as they change during their time in the war & Dylan McDermott & Steven Weber's relationship is brilliant in it!
@MrPopeye232323 It's a good film, but I've always found it slightly over-rated myself; it's good and has good bits in it, but generally quiet slow and hard going.
I really like the characters in this film, it's one of the few War films where you can get quite attached to their individual quirks. I also like the way the most famous actors in the film are McDermott & Weber, quality actors, no super stars.
in war there are always innocents killed. my mother and father lived through one here in ireland were we nationalist wanted to unite ireland north and south so an rebel fighting force went to war with britain called the provisional ira for over a quatar of a centry this went on and so the provos split majority took a cease fire in 1994 some still carry on till today
i know someone who served in the rangers in nam. you call him carl. let me tell you a story about him which he told my father.one time when he was i nam he was ambushed in a padi field. with vc coming from all sides and no squad left he knew if he was captured the vc would to interrigate him and after the would kill him. so he was a pointman and had a shotgun he put the barrel in his month ready to blow his head off because vc knew a special forces soldier by the looks. lucky they didnt see him
Kids now a days thinks War is just a game and that you just kill the enemie and go home.
Then problably in the future they will see what happends when the US go in to war with Iran
SovietGamers 4 days ago
those young dumbass kids who play xbox and wii think war is a game and think it counts as training. See what happens if we go to war against Iran or China.
capnhands 1 week ago in playlist Favorite videos
I used to think war was inspiring, but i think im heading towards pacifism
ectomy1235 1 week ago
hi all, after months of talking to the school administration, I got permission to show Hamburger Hill to my American History junior and senior classes. I thought it would be a nice break from the lectures on the Vietnam conflict. So i showed the movie, not ONE word came from the students you cuold hear a pin drop, dead slience and everyone was glued to the screen.
I received a a few phone calls from family members who served they all thanked me for showing this movie to the students. take care
hanno21664 1 week ago
Vaskereszt és Hamburger Hill !
orbsan1 2 weeks ago
what a spoiled nation shaming their soidlers after going through all that fighting come back to get the mark of shame one hell of a nationg that stands together....by the way i to will be doing my time ive enrolled in to the marines im a little nervice and alredy broke up with my girl friend well hope for the best.
MrAtilano101 2 weeks ago
Before critizising the soldier who fights the unpopular war, one should think about who voted for the politician who sent him there.
24765968 3 weeks ago 4
look all you FUCKS from across the pond, 70 percent of those KIDS from USA
were drafted !!! anyone who does not respect the 101 at hill 937 can eat a fat DICK!!!!
scrawneyjawmey79 3 weeks ago
@scrawneyjawmey79 I aint in the 101st but i give those guys a alot of respect. 1st Battalion 3rd Marines OORAH!!!!
jfman22345 1 week ago
@wlllready
shall i call doctor or would it be all in vain,ridiculous fucking brainless wank-yank.?
sideburnbasher 4 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Much respect for the men who perished in that shithole of vice and misery. God Bless you all!
StonewallJackson26 1 month ago
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StonewallJackson26 1 month ago
good.
ezekiel207 1 month ago
this theme gives me goosebumps.
ShannonFAVsongPG 1 month ago
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RYDER8140 2 months ago
I'm 41 years old and British. I was born at the right time and in the right place to never be called by my country. As a result, Ive seen seen people older and younger than me die in my place. I've had the chance to shake the hand of a Desert Rat - my grandad. And I still hope to shake the hand of a Battle Of Britain pilot. And more than anything, I would wish to shake the hand of any man who was here, and experienced hell on my behalf. My gratitude and respect will never die.
arablade49 3 months ago 2
@arablade49 Amen brother as an American!
aln77mp 1 month ago in playlist Favorite videos
before the age of dumb ass call of duty games , , now phillip glass would get paid to make themes for COD games yay!
druha10304 3 months ago
I love this theme, it sounds so dark yet heroic at the same time. This along with the theme "Ruins" from Full Metal Jacket really makes me imagine what it must've been like for all the soldiers.
strumstrumxcore 3 months ago
I served with a number of American veterans of the Vietnam War as a trooper in the Rhodesian Army 1979-80...can I just say how much I admire you ouens!
tprdfh51 4 months ago in playlist tprdfh51's Favorited Videos 4
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tprdfh51 4 months ago in playlist tprdfh51's Favorited Videos
One of my absolute favorite movies, this OST gives me the chills everytime i hear it, its a great opener in the movie, this played and showing pictures of the wall in washington.
MrGrandmasterchief 4 months ago
I ask every man who listens to this to read the battle for hill 937 during May 10th-20th 1969. U.S. losses during the ten-day battle reportedly totaled 72 dead and 372 wounded, the hill was quietly abandoned on June 5th by Major General John M. Wright. Remember the bravery of the men of the 101st.
TheUnknownAgenda 4 months ago 17
@TheUnknownAgenda I'm a Recon Marine and the bravery of the 101st and the taking of 937 is what inspired me, my dad took part in that fight and not that this has any meaning coming from me but "Airborne, All the way!!!!".
jfman22345 1 day ago in playlist Liked videos
To all the peace lovers ,who shamed the vets when they came home and even now ,US UK ETC,THEY FIGHT SO YOU CAN HAVE THE FREEDOM TO OPEN YOUR BIG FAT TRAPS
willready2 4 months ago 12
@willready2 They fight for whatever cause the government can justify, not for freedom.
TheAssist 3 months ago
@willready2 i'm all 4 peace but i understand & admire what countless men & women have & continue 2 do 2 give us the many freedoms we enjoy.i think those protesters were stupid & wht they did was evil & wrong.anybody who risks their lives for someone else---their country, do not deserve that kind of hate.they deserve our gratitude,attention,& love.so i'm saying peace would b a nice change but there isn't...yet. either way i support all our armed forces from vietnam to where we are now.
peace378ify 2 months ago
@willready2 Yes. We all should give thanks to CCTV being everywhere, the TSA groping 8 and 98 year olds, the drug running CIA, the farcical elections, the military industrial complex making uber bucks off of war (read Smedley Butler's War is Racket), the corporations which own practically everything, and the banks which rake in the money off of toxic loans and egregious usury.
Time to pull your head out of your ass and smell the roses. Soldiers defend the status quo. Not the citizens.
jeffbrak 2 months ago
@jeffbrak it's an incredible racket their running...
Jtomo1987 1 month ago
@jeffbrak Very . . .very well said.
alexandrabimini 4 weeks ago
@willready2 not exactly...these man and many others gave their lives so the US could prosper as the most powerful nation on Earth. That provided great material porperity to american citzens, and indirectly creat a cenario where free inttelectual debate could flourish. But it is done through the suffering of millions of people. It's the same mecanisns of an elite exploring the majority of the population, a trend that has been going on since the beggining of history. maybe it could be different
jackasslobo 1 month ago
@jackasslobo if not the us or before them the english etc etc then who ,,i know to all the peace loving intelectual ,how about IRAN OR SYRIA ,SAUDI ARABIA ,SUDAN,EGYPT ,,BETTER A DEMOCRACY THAN THAT LOT TO NAME BUT A FEW
willready2 4 weeks ago
@willready2 do not forget libya!
scrawneyjawmey79 3 weeks ago
@willready2
poor wanker,as if war is the solution to anything,you are a tool of yer government,like the hundreds of thousands of brainless wankers who think it´s nice to get slaughtered for some politicians dream(s),fucking idot,that´s what YOU are
sideburnbasher 1 month ago
@sideburnbasher WANKER TO SIDEBURNBASHER PRICK ,FOR EVIL TO TRIUMPH IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING ,HISTORY TELLS YOU THAT DICKHEAD
willready2 4 weeks ago
@willready2 damn right!!
scrawneyjawmey79 3 weeks ago
@sideburnbasher Cunt that has never ever been on active service until you have keep your bullshit views to yourselve i wear many medals from different conflicts waged by different Govts,,,,Do you sleep eay at night twat,
simon8382 6 days ago
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tprdfh51 5 months ago
MAGNIFICA TRILHA SONORA DE ABERTURA, FILME REALISTICO NOS MINIMOS DETALHES, EXTRAORDINARIO!!!
ussmontgomery 5 months ago
Andrew Jackson was a filthy murderer. May his soul be forever tortured in hell
sausagezombie 5 months ago
@sausagezombie General Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson (CSA) died of pneumonia at the age of 39 two days after the Battle of Chancellorsville.
thereluctantspaceman 5 months ago
....we're taking automatic weapon fire from our right flank.
Brave soldiers from USA and North Vietnam.
Pointless Conflict.
ChuckyDoll10 5 months ago 2
God this music is haunting, you can't forget it. Cheers to all the young men that died in that tragic war. You will never be forgotten. Ever.
skaz21 5 months ago 2
so dark..i love it because it gives you the right emphasis and feeling
sargentsnugglewolf92 5 months ago
The best fucking soundtrack too !
woznix 5 months ago
The best fucking film i ever seen
XaZeRorAntZer 5 months ago
this theme song is amazing i get goosebumps to it philip glass is fab x
tonifox123 5 months ago
You also must remember that many VC dead are listed as Civilian dead, seeing as they were militia.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Now i readily admit you got a point, but the death toll is in the end irrelevant, because I did not mean the Vietnam war was bloodier and more ruthless than ANY other conflict.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
Civilians dying in War is reality. Every since the industrial revolution and the advances in War technology, civilians have suffered more and more. Post WW1, civilians dying in War is natural. A reality.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
For the record, the highest estimate of the combined losses of the NVA and Vietcong is around 1,200,000.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Ok but how many of the 600,000 + wounded died later. Probably many.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
Lets not make up shit here. That is another overwhelming exaggeration. 50 million Chinese were killed in the Great Leap forward. 15 million Chinese were killed via Japanese bombing. Almost 20 million Soviet civilians were killed by the Germans and its Allies. To say that Vietnam is more ruthless towards civilians than these events is ridiculous.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
The difference is that Vietnam was a conflict fought by America, and thus accountable to American standards!! Japan was a ruthless society, and so was Germany, the Soviet Union, China and so on. I'm not arguing the Vietnam war was bloodier or more ruthless than ww2 for Pete's sake!! Please, get this into your head: the Vietnam war was terrible in a western context and it's placed in a western context by the fact a western nation foguht it!
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe I see what you're saying. But Germany is technically a Western Nation also. The French are a Western nation.
Vietnam snowballed. As I said, it was a disaster. No arguing that. You say that Korea was a justified War. But you forget that 2.5 million civilians were killed in that conflict, and like Vietnam the suffering of civilians was mostly from the result of indigenous Armies in political jockeying.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Yeah, but Germany is an exception. Its military was not accountable to civilian authorities. "An Army with a state" as you know. I say America's intervention was justified, and the conduct of the war was admirable. America bear very little guilt, if any, to the dead civilians in Korea. In Vietnam, America was guilty - of course not on the level of the NVA or Vietcong, but still.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe I guess so. Don't make no mistake though. Korea was a butcher shop. Which is why its hardly talked about.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
It goes under the epithet "the Forgotten War" I hear. It even took you a while to erect a monument for those who fought and died. Yet, America had "only" 38,000 combat casualties in that war. Granted, though, the Korean war was comparatively short. It's really strange no one talks much about it. The fighting retreat of the marines was a greater epic than the Bulge in my opinion.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Well we agree to disagree. I think those boys in Nam deserve my utmost respect. And I am going to give it them, and no offense it doesn't matter what you think of the conflict, because you aren't American. And again no offense, you're Swedish, so by default your perception of the War is skewed. You seem like a decent guy, so I won't attack your character anymore. But that was one fine generation of men regardless of what you think.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
I respect them, for different reasons. They endured hell on so many levels that no other American generation has done before or since. The climate and terrain was unforgiving, the enemy likewise. The helicopter made redeployment faster than ever and thus left soldiers without much respite as they went from one battlefield to the next. On top of that they had no support back home. They were made scapegoats for the war's misconduct and overall failure. "A Grunt can take it"
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe They went through hell yes. In my opinion though, I believe the nastiest, most ruthless battles in US military history took place at Iwo Jima, Peleliu, and Okinawa. Horrible conditions, meaning some of the nastiest environments you could imagine, against a fanatical enemy who refused to surrender, and intelligence not being what it should, due to the fact that many times they faced a subterranean enemy. Who spent sometimes months before the battle constructed amazing fortresses.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
On the other hand the ww2 American soldier wasn't engaged as often. I saw some statistics once that showed, I think, that the average time a ww2 American soldier spent in active fighting was two weeks out of one year, whereas the Vietnam soldier spent ten weeks in active fighting in one year. But as for the nature of the actual fighting, ww2 was worse, granted, as is reflected by the casualties. The roughly 3 1/2 years of fighting in the Pacific alone cost 109,000 dead.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Right but on places like Peleliu and Iwo, you could have up to 1,000 casualties in one day. And the casualty rate was much higher because on Peleliu for instance you had only 1 division fighting by itself for over a month.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
And I don't think we really disagree as much as you perceive.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
And they brought their dead with them despite horrific conditions. That's heroism that is hard to find in the Vietnam war.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
Korea was fucking horrible man. The Chinese for instance DID NOT take prisoners. Killing fields as far as the eye can sea. Dead stacked on top of one another. Dead used as sandbags in desperate and futile human wave attacks that were destroyed in detail. Korea was one giant killing field my man.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
You're mssing my point again. Why am i so against the Vietnam war and its conduct? Because the collateral damage, that is the killing of civilians, was horrible, three times as many civilians were killed as soldiers. Korea, hell even the Western front of ww1, was less ruthless IN THAT RESPECT. The bodies stacked in Korea were the bodies of soldiers, not civilians. Soldiers dying in a war is not very outrageous, in my opinion, it's quite natural.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Three times as many civilians were killed than soldiers. That is not true my man. Some historians argue that civilians casualties in Vietnam and Cambodia could have been as low as 400,000. Most say it is about 1,000,000. The NVA lost almost 2 million killed. And many civilians were killed by the NVA and VC..
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
let's put it like this: the collateral damage of American military operations in Vietnam was unacceptively severe.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
Swedes fought in the SS, no lie there.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
I just thought I would reiterate that statement twice. You weren't in Nam. You opened up a history book and now you're an expert.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
At least i did that and don't think my genealogy makes me an expert. And again, i wrote that for the Vietnamese people the Vietcong were heroes.
PEOPLE, IT'S TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT. I HAVE NOT CALLED THE VIETCONG HEROES.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe I don't say I am an expert. My dad and uncle are the experts. I am not the one making crass generalizations about the men who fought and died in that horrid arm pit of the world. What is your purpose here? What are you trying to prove? That America is a piece of shit? Fine. Think that way. You won't be the first or last European that despises America. Vietnam was a disaster, everyone knows that. But you make it seem as though we went over there just to kill civilians. That's a lie.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
No my friend, it is you who make it seem that way. Because you don't read what I write, or you can't read what i write, or you simply distort it intentionally. I don't despise America. I don't know what the problem is, but you just won't understand my points. Maybe because you decided from day one "this is an anti-American commie" you haven't even bothered trying to see what I write. Nice of you to realize Vietnam was a disaster, though.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe You obviously don't read what I write. I said that we shouldn't have gone to Nam about an hour ago.
That anger that you feel when I say Swedes fought for the SS, is similar to the Way that I feel when you say that killing civilians was common practice. Illegal killings were court marshaled and GIs were persecuted to the fullest extent of military law.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26 That anger was not for the Swedes that fought in the SS, it was for the lies you implied. That Sweden as a nation supported Nazi Germany and aided her with men and material! And i still say killing civilians was common, but I won't go through the free fire zone-shit again, I've already done that. What you shot in a free fire zone didn't get you prosecuted and court-martialed, it was legit to shoot EVERYONE in such a zone.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Free fire zones existed in VC strongholds. Usually with the highest concentration of enemy movement or operations. There were no mass shootings of civilians in Nam. Were civilians killed, absolutely, a sad reality of War, but Vietnam was no genocide.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
The Korean war was good on every level. A communist nation attacked a non-communist nation. America, as part of it's containment doctrine, went there to make things right. The war was fought by uniformed soldiers by conventional methods. The American leaders had a clear objective with no strings attached to it. It was not ruthless in the relativeness of the history of war.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe whoa whoa. The Civil War was a good? Wow! Americans killing Americans. Shermans march to the sea. The horrid conditions at prison camps like Andersonville and other prison camps up North. Parlay was not always given a prisoners were shot at times. You are talking nonsense again.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
By war's relativeness, yes. During Napoleon's war in the Iberian Peninsula French prisoners were boiled alive, skinned alive, even forced to eat their own limbs. The French in turn systematically destated the countryside, wiping out entire villages. But you think that is as ruthless as the civil war?
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
Millions of refugees fled to the US, for fear of reprisal by the North and Vietcong in particular. Any anti Communist collaborator was killed. This what I am talking about. Calling the Vietcong Heroes is ridiculous! You say some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard spewed on YouTube.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Again you intepret my words as the Devil interprets the Bible. I said that for the Vietnamese people the Vietcong were heroes. They had fought victoriously over two foreign powers and was going on their third. The American revolutionaries are heroes to you, yes? Yet to an outsider it's not that black and white, because the patriots did some atrocities too. Like hanging every prisoner after a battle. Both sides did that that shit, yet both were heroes to their supporters.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
I think my father being a Vietnam vet gives me a little more insight then you. Yeah! I am going to go ahead and say that I know more. Europe's version of the events that took place in Nam are very different then how it is portrayed in the US. And what you say, is completely contradictory to my father's and uncle's testimony to what they saw and heard.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
I've only read American books on the subject!! And exactly, maybe the Vietnamese didn't want your freedom, because freedom to them with all that it carries with it was as alien to them as it would be for medieval Europeans.
And you should write with very small letters concerning historical accuracy and falshoods. You said outright that the Swedish nation supported and even aided Nazi Germany with men and material! That is a falsehood, that is an exaggeration!
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Were there not Swedes in the SS? There were.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Oh, this again. It's a bloody fucking huge difference between a few private persons signing up for a foreign army and saying that their nation supported and aided that nation! Americans fought in the SS too.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Americans fought the SS as a country. That negates any American born German who went back to the Fatherland once the War started.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Oh, so that's how it works. Silly me!
This is the end of this debate. You're simply too stupid, too illiterate, too bigoted and with the horizon of an ant. My writing to you is as pearls for swines, you're too dumb, in the sense of retarded. I really mean it, you can't fucking read proper arguing.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe The only idiot is you! An idiot who sees only one side of history. You are a typical European, brainwashed by your politically correct, liberal media. I hope your feelings towards American servicemen changes in the near future. You obviously have issues with my country and you lower yourself to lying and manipulating the truth of events. You sir bring a new meaning to the term stupid.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Thank you for proving my point one last time. My only issue with America is that it's populated by a disproportionate number of people like you; and that's not rethorics, it's very close to the truth. From my channel you seem to have aquired my nationality, so why don't you go back there and do some reading and you'll see how anti-American I am.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe I said I was against the war you arrogant son of a bitch. I am not a fanatic. It just makes my blood boil when I see people like you presume that you are an expert in warfare. You're insufferably pretentious, and you seem like you think very highly of yourself. You can't stand any criticism of your own country instead troll a channel commemorating the loss of fine young men. And instead of honoring them you ensue a keyboard crusade that presents them unfairly.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Wow, deranged is not the proper word for you, but I don't think the proper word hasn't been invented yet. I rather think I have explained and justified the atrocities of American soldiers in that war, explained the context and circumstances that made it such a tragedy. I have openly written that the GI:s were not to blame. And i can stand criticism of my country, but not outrageous lies.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe You are a miserable man who demeans and insults people who disagree with your idealistic interpretation of the world. You are not a realistic. If GIs are not to blame, which they weren't. WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE HERE??????
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
That the Vietnam war was an unjust war in the diplomatic and political sense. That the Vietnam war was conducted by America in a way that was diametrically opposed to what America stands for as well as illegal. Fought in a ruthless way which guaranteed contra-productive results and thus was a meaningless war on every level. In short, the Vietnam war was unjust on every conceivable level.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe EVERY FUCKING WAR IS RUTHLESS. Understand this. The original intent in Vietnam was noble, but in retrospect we never should have went there, because it snowballed into a conflict that was not winnable, and the realization of how corrupt the ARVN was didn't become apparent until after the Tet Offensive.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
By western standards, the Vietnam war was very ruthless, as ruthless as the Algerian war or the Indochina war. The British in Malaya and Palestine or India are examples of how you can be less ruthless.
And i've never used the term genocide. I simply say that in Vietnam a lot of civilians died because of American military policies. I do not say it was deliberate, only that the circumstances created by American policies made it very likely for civvies to get caught up.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe By Western standards any war is ruthless. Nam was no more ruthless than the War against Japan or the War against Korea. Or the Civil War, or any other War that America has fought. The difference in Nam is that it was an overall failure. The Vets of Vietnam are still to this day treated poorly because Vietnam was deemed as a War fought for nothing. If America would have won, and if Communism had been crushed. The War would be presented in a much different light.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
It's different with counter-insurgency warfare. From Napoleon's struggle in Spain to present day Afghanistan, collateral damage is inherent in counter-insurgency warfare.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
The Civil war was a "good" war. In that war a wounded soldier could expect care and shelter from the enemy's medical services, the fighting was between uniformed soldiers; you knew who the enemy was at first sight.
Even though ruthless counter-insurgency operations were part of that war, in Missouri especially, it was just one aspect of the war: in Vietnam it was the other way around, with conventional fighting like Khe Sahn and the Hill Fights being the exception.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
You wouldn't say the Civil war was as brutal as the Indian wars, would you? Bloodier, for sure, but not more brutal and ruthless.
My point is that there is different levels of ruthlessness in war, even by western standards.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe The battle of Petersburg, the battle of Antietam, Cold Harbor, Shermans campaigns in the deep South, where he kicked reporters and unit historians out of his Army, while he laid waste to Southern homesteads. Brutality of the highest extent my man.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe You talk like a schmuck. Your pretentiousness is overwhelming. You speak as if you were actually there.It is easy to give your opinion when you weren't there. Then calling the VC "heroes" was the icing on the cake. This is a channel honoring the sacrifices made by men in regards to their friends and units. This isn't a channel to criticize American servicemen. Find another channel for that. Or better yet go whine in the streets. It is easy to give your opinion when you weren't there.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
You're like the commies in Europe, only instead of labeling me a racist for not wanting mass immigration, you label me anti-American for having negative views of a war that only a fanatic like you can defend.
And just so you know, liberal has a different meaning in Europe than it has in America. I am a European liberal, but a European liberal is like a moderate American Democrat. But as I said, the horizon of an ant.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
The Vietcong had been murdering Vietnamese all the way back to 1954 you Shmuck. They were first inducted as a resistance to French influence. Throughout the late 50's and early 60's they had killed political prisoners, slaughtered civilians with the utmost savagery. Get your facts straight dip shit.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
The Vietcong sprang up already during the Japanese occupation as Vietminh. They first fought the Japanese, then the French, and won. They were heroes in both North and South. That may explain why the South voted for communism, because it was something that the Vietcong stood for. Then America, yet another foreign power, stepped in. The Vietcong did what it had always done, fighting the invaders.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe HEROES! OH MY GOD! You are brainwashed! The VC were animals who were especially notorious for decapitating civilians, sticking their heads on pikes as a warning to Nationalists. You have no idea what they South did to terrorize and scare their people into submission. Why do you think so many South Vietnamese refugees fled their country?
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
It was only after American intervention that the Vietcong turned to murdering their own people, just as they had murdered those Vietnamese who had collaborated with the Japanese and French.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
You act as if only Americans killed civilians. The VC killed loads of civilians, their own people. Don't you see how bad Communism is? The USSR conducted Holomodor that killed 7 million Ukrainians, the Great Leap forward that killed 50 million Chinese, the North Korean invasion of the South that killed 2 million South Koreans, mostly civilians. Everywhere Communism goes people die in mass numbers. Communism has killed more than Fascism has.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Yes son, communism is bad, I haven't said anything else. But we were talking about the American conduct of the war, not the communist, didn't we? And i haven't compared your conduct as being as bad as the communist. I only criticise America by western standards because America was once a beacon for those standards and should therefore be accountable to them. You'd expect better from America, but not from the communists. They're in different leagues.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
And just so you know, you did lose the war. Exactly because of this strategy which made it very difficult for soldiers to earn this trust. The only ones that succeeded were the special forces, because their covert and discrete sort of warfare allowed them to discriminate enemy from friend much more easily than a regular GI thrown around the battlefields and thus entirely clueless about local conditions. The SP operated extended periods in the same location, and thus could form a judgement.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
The Americans in Vietnam were trying to earn the trust of the Vietnamese, without their trust the War would never have been won. Generals telling their men to kill civilians is counter productive, because it contradicts the purpose of the War. They were trying to install democracy in that region, if they killed civilians regularly, how could America have ever hoped for the Vietnamese to embrace democracy?
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
If you'd listened to my earlier replies, and not interpreted them as the devil interprets the Bible, maybe you'd realized I'm not "pissing" on the soldiers. Apart from a few massacres, the soldier was not to blame, but the circumstances he was put in by his leaders. Such a strategy is bound to lead to a high civilian death tool no matter what army is subjected to it. You get my meaning!!??
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe That same communism that slaughtered countless South Vietnamese via the Vietcong. Ho Chi Minh terrorized the South and sued them with violence if they didn't succumb to the Communist power. That is why my comment is top rated because people agree with me. You are an idiot, who agrees with himself. You haven't a clue of what you're talking about.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Wow, you got the majority! Majority makes it a truth, is that what you're saying? Hmm, didn't that happen in Germany too?besides, it's not top rated anymore it seems.
Well, you see, the South Vietnamese generally weren't literate, and they had no TV, so the previous and ongoing crimes of Communism didn't reach their attention. The VC didn't terrorize until AFTER American intervention. Anyhow anywhy, the fact is the South Vietnamese voted for a Communist party.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Oh yes! You know it all! You have all the knowledge and answers! A Swede with no personal correlation to the War, preaching to someone that who two close family members serve in the War. When Kennedy sent advisers to Nam, it was under the faith that the ARVN would fight and secure their own political liberation. The US saw it as their responsibility, seeing as it was the US who defeated Japan, the country who had previously ruled them, before the French were ousted.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
You got to be really dumb, in the most basic sense of the word, to believe you have some kind of inherent perfect knowledge of the war because you had relatives in it.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
And the only person who is ranting is yourself. My father and uncle served in Vietnam, they told me many stories. You are a Swede has knows only what your liberal textbooks tell you. I am willing to bet my life that I know more about Vietnam then you do. Seeing as that my family was actually there.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Wow, you are stupid. As for my textbooks, I don't think many of them are liberal. You know why? Because desperate (but a little smarter) people like you have flooded the literature with justifcations and excuses for what went wrong in that war. Thing is, they explain WHY it went wrong, they don't DENY that it did, as you do.
Yeah, maybe you're genetically favored when it comes to knowledge of the Vietnam war... err, no, because it doesn't work that way.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe I don't care what your position is dipshit. I don't think we should have went there either. The Vietnamese weren't worth the effort. They obviously didn't embrace freedom or justice for their people. So I am against the War. My problem with you is that almost everything you say is exaggeration and falsehood. And definitely not historically accurate by any means.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
As i've previously stated, South Vietnam was a democracy before American intervention. American intervention wasn't to create democracy, but to destroy it's results: the Vietnamese majority voted for a Communist party, and America didn't like that. And I haven't said that Americans were told by their generals to kill civilians: it happend because every circumstance was there to make civilians a target.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
OH MY GOD YOU'RE STUPID!!!! AMERICANS WERE COURT MARSHALED FOR KILLING CIVILIANS IN NAM! DON'T YOU GET IT! IT WAS NOT AN ACCEPTED PRACTICE. SOME AMERICAN MARINES AND GIS WERE JAILED AND EXECUTED FOR CRIMES. GET THAT THROUGH YOUR FUCKING HEAD!
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
I have known it all along, what are you ranting about? Of course Americans were faced with court-martial (not court marshall, lol). But how often could it be proven? It's like for a rancher to prove his live-stock was killed by a wolf. And group pressure and solidarity often meant things didn't get reported. The thing is the majority of civilian deaths at the hands of Americans was unintentional, due to the body count doctrine and free fire zones!! You're the slow one!
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
Fact is, the US military did not condone illegal killings and hundreds of soldiers were persecuted for crimes. Some where even executed. Individual Swedes joined and fought with the SS, and individual Americans killed civilians in Nam. Both are true. Unfortunately in your small mind, you believe that only Americans deserve scrutiny.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Thing is that the individual Swedes in the SS were private persons with no links to the Swedish state or government. The individual American soldiers were part of an American institution, fighting an American war for American politicians. if you can't tell the difference I pity you.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
But even more important is the free fire zones. Once the enemy had been located and an American offensive began, his general area of operation became a free fire zone, where EVERYONE was a legit target. As i said in a previous reply, the blame is not on the GI:s, but on the white-collar men who developed these strategies. I've not blamed the soldier per se, but his superiors at Pentagon and the White House.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
Swedes sheltered British and American pilots in 1944, after it was certain that Germany would lose the War. Sweden was playing both sides of the fence. Sheltering Allied pilots was a way for Sweden to gain the grace of the Allied powers. Sweden embraced Nazi Germany and as I said, a point you can't refute. The SS conscripted Swedes into their ranks. That is fact. Since we are mudslinging, I thought I'd sling some back.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
Not to mention your home country of Sweden complied with Nazi Germany. Sending men and material to fight in Hitler's ranks. Some of which finding their way into the Nazi SS. 5th Panzer SS Wiking Division was personally responsible for the slaughter of countless Jews and civilians, and the division was comprised of many Swedes.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Now you're getting silly, or desperate since you haft to lie. Sweden as a country didn't send "men and material" to Nazi Germany. That would have made us a bellligerent, but we were neutral. We let one German division cross our territory and exported iron ore to Germany. And of course individual Swedes volunteered for nazi service, but so did British, American, French, Spanish, Finnish, Norwegian, Danish people as well. So what's you point?
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Bullshit, there were Swedes in the SS, don't lie. My point bringing this up is that you have spent the better part of 2 months bashing the US military. Just shedding light on some of Sweden's wrong doings. Don't act as if your shit doesn't stink.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
You fucking moron, i said individual Swedes did serve in the nazi army, including the SS, but Sweden as a state did not send troops or material to the nazis. if you really believe that you need to do some serious research you dumb bigot.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Now I am a bigot. You asshole have spent the last two months pissing on dead Americans in Nam. So I retaliated and bashed your Sweden. Now you're upset. Well fuck you! If you can't take it, don't dish it out.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
I haven't blatantly lied at any point, which you do now! I can bash without lying, because i know your history better than yourself. On several points in this debate you've fallen silent without any counter arguments, so i guess i got something right.
The SS enlisted individual Swedes, yes ffs, i have admitted that, but that's not the same as Sweden supporting Nazi Germany!! The SS recruited from all Scandinavian countries and the whole Western world!!!
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
And we saved allied pilots in 1943 you lying dipshit. "If you can't take it, don't dish it out." You are doing something completely else, with outright fucking lies!!! Or maybe you're actually so dumb you believe it. Well, READ A BOOK
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe Ok I see. We can bash the entire US military for the actions of individuals. But Sweden should be spared from blame when individual Swedes joined the SS. What a hypocrite you are. You should hold your own country to the same standards as you hold America to. Once I turn the tables you get butt hurt. You become vicious and angry. Well fuck you very much.
And by the Way. You know nothing about Vietnam. Only what your liberal textbooks tell you.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
You're so unbelievably deranged i can't believe it. Every got damn western nation had citizens in the SS. So because of that, America is forever immune from criticism from these countries? Even though Sweden hasn't been commited to imperialism as the US have, never persecuted a people in modern times as the US have, never been at war for 200 years, we're on the same level as America because 315 Swedes joined the SS? Wow, your logic is splendid.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe OK MORON!!!!! I was arguing, saying that civilian deaths in Nam were perpetrated by individuals, not the military as a whole. I used Swedish soldiers in the SS as part of an argument, trying to explain my point. Individuals do not represent countries. Individual Swedes fought with the SS, not Sweden as a whole. Just like individual American killed civilians in Nam, not America as a whole. I used it as an example.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@StonewallJackson26
Again:
Thing is that the individual Swedes in the SS were private persons with no links to the Swedish state or government. The individual American soldiers were part of an American institution, fighting an American war for American politicians. if you can't tell the difference I pity you.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
The body count doctrine was about going where the enemy was and kill him, not seizing and holding territory as in previous wars. Thus Americans never secured any territory, a place recently cleared was filled with enemies the next year because the Americans moved along. This meant Americans could never be sure about a region. This confusion is partly to blame for the high civilians death toll.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
Are a nation to be held responsible for what a handful of individuals did?! In that case i can tell you that far more American served in the Whermacht than Swedes.
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe No! But should the US military be blamed for what rogue units did in Vietnam?
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
"rogue units"? YEAH, THOSE UNITS JUSTIFY THE BASHING OF AMERICA BECAUSE THEY WORE THE AMERICAN FLAG ON THEIR UNIFORM!! THE SWEDES IN THE SS WORE THE SVASTIKAM BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T SWEDISH SOLDIERS, THEY WERE INDIVIDUAL PRIVATE SWEDES SERVING ANOTHER COUNTRY1! IT'S A CERTAIN DIFFERENCE!!!
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
@Faxe90Swe You are arguing a very fine line here. So what if they had a flag on their uniform. Illegal killing were court martial events fuck stick. That is fact. God you are hypocritical.
StonewallJackson26 6 months ago
@StonewallJackson26
Reconnaissance*
Faxe90Swe 6 months ago
Quite possible the greatest underrated vietnam war movie ever. Thank you to all who served during the Vietnam war. Son of a Vietnam war veteran.
BigBearBrady 6 months ago
oooooo ima be playin dis song on my xbox in the first battles of battlefield 3
MrAtilano101 6 months ago
I hate, I mean, seriously hate how America treated Vietnam Veterans. I wish I could go back in time and round up all the narrow minded people and throw them in the same jungle our veterans left behind, at least physically. They left hell to come back to horrible treatment and the no one, government, nobody, stood up for them and left them to die on the streets of our country. America the beautiful?
MrRollerman422 6 months ago
Why do people slag off the brave men who fought in this 1 of a thousand plus battles in history ,may they all rest in peace ,right or wrong ,only time will tell,but the saying goes is for good men to do nothing is for evil to strife
willready2 6 months ago
This was one of the best Nam movies and if you liked it check out " The Siege of Fire base Gloria: Sgt Ermy is in that one!!
ThePleiku10 6 months ago
Ouens...right or wrong - don't matter - you did your duty!
tprdfh51 7 months ago
Is this music on cd?
eagle101644 7 months ago
"Good war movie". . . .quite the oxymoron.
alexandrabimini 7 months ago
We bloodied that poor nation. Shame shame shame
sausagezombie 7 months ago
@sausagezombie shut your mouth hippie
lEpiCxNick 7 months ago
@lEpiCxNick you talking to me?
tprdfh51 6 months ago
@tprdfh51 yea do you like the commies or what? 58,000 good men died fighting because idiots in Washington didnt want to win
lEpiCxNick 6 months ago
@lEpiCxNick I think you have me confused with sausagezombie.
tprdfh51 6 months ago
@tprdfh51 oh wow didnt see that lol. sorry man, sausagezombie is an idiot
lEpiCxNick 6 months ago
@lEpiCxNick I know...hard to follow the comments on Utube sometimes..Cheers!
tprdfh51 6 months ago
Vietnam was a victory for the anglo-saxon capitalist war machine. After dropping more bombs on that little country, that poor country, they showed the region that you are not allowed to run you own country without the U.S. permission.
sausagezombie 7 months ago
Full metal jacket and hamburger hill are the best vietnam movies!
McRaims 8 months ago
I still love this film the best. Platoon tried to glamorises the war, make it almost cool, FMJ is a great film too (2nd favourite) but I love this film's humble existence. I only know of it because my Dad is an avid war film watcher and I remember watching it when I was younger.
I love the way it's no frills style depicts the changing characteristics of Alphabet & Beinstock & co, as they change during their time in the war & Dylan McDermott & Steven Weber's relationship is brilliant in it!
kpsuk 8 months ago in playlist Classical
@kpsuk i like Apocalypse Now more...
MrPopeye232323 6 months ago
@MrPopeye232323 It's a good film, but I've always found it slightly over-rated myself; it's good and has good bits in it, but generally quiet slow and hard going.
I really like the characters in this film, it's one of the few War films where you can get quite attached to their individual quirks. I also like the way the most famous actors in the film are McDermott & Weber, quality actors, no super stars.
This, FMJ then probably Apocalypse Now for me.
kpsuk 6 months ago
@MrPopeye232323 Me too....and also Full Metal Jacket.
MrUKFORLIFE 6 months ago
in war there are always innocents killed. my mother and father lived through one here in ireland were we nationalist wanted to unite ireland north and south so an rebel fighting force went to war with britain called the provisional ira for over a quatar of a centry this went on and so the provos split majority took a cease fire in 1994 some still carry on till today
shughes375 8 months ago
i know someone who served in the rangers in nam. you call him carl. let me tell you a story about him which he told my father.one time when he was i nam he was ambushed in a padi field. with vc coming from all sides and no squad left he knew if he was captured the vc would to interrigate him and after the would kill him. so he was a pointman and had a shotgun he put the barrel in his month ready to blow his head off because vc knew a special forces soldier by the looks. lucky they didnt see him
shughes375 8 months ago
we are airbourn, we dont start fights, we finish them.
falerdog 8 months ago
I didn't know he died in 69' though. I thought he died in the 70's.
StonewallJackson26 8 months ago
@StonewallJackson26 Nope do a little research.
Ho Chi Minh(19 May 1890 – 2 September 1969)
Hồ Chí Minh died at 9:47 a.m. on the morning of 2 September 1969, at his home in Hanoi at age 79 from heart failure.
Hperman09 8 months ago
Hadn't really heard Phillip Glass's genius until I saw Koyannisquatsi about a month ago, he's a really fantastic composer.
docroe101 8 months ago