Two Books by Nathaniel Branden

[lashkaretoiba]

Didn't penn and teller debunk branden's self-esteem as bullcrap?

[hyperseauton]

@lashkaretoiba

It's objectivism, it cannot be debunked by definition!

[Mal1234567]

Objectivism is a classic example of how a philosophy can make self-esteem impossible.

[poulkeodbanan]

christian moral and virtue make self esteem impossible. The same with the philosophy of kant. The highest virtue in objectivism is selfishness, selfishness is self love, and self love is self-esteem.

[Mal1234567]

Self-love cannot be a virtue (or vice) since it is a natural propensity, as natural as sleeping. If you want natural propensities to become virtues then why stop with self-love, you might as well include sleeping among your virtues.

[poulkeodbanan]

Good argument, but everybody want´s and need to sleep, not everybody love themself, and not everybody think it is good to love yourself. But you are right that it is natural to love yourself. just as natural as sleeping.

[Mal1234567]

I would say that everybody loves themselves to a greater or lesser extent, otherwise they would soon be dead.

[poulkeodbanan]

I agree, thats true. The problem is when it is to a lesser extent ;-) We all want more out of life then to just not die.

[dedbusted]

@Mal1234567 Everybody loves himself (or herself)--not "themselves"

[Mal1234567]

@dedbusted did Rand tell you to say that?

[dedbusted]

@Mal1234567 No, the rules of English grammar did.

[XxxNuMbxxX0301]

Self-love is not a "propensity"; people aren't disposed to love themselves. It is a consequence of one's life and choices.

I have an urge to fall asleep; I have no such choice in regard to self-love. I must earn it.

[Mal1234567]

Self-love is a natural propensity, but you can be taught to hate yourself. That being said, I don't even see in what nonsensical regard self-love has to be earned.

[Bigturns33]

that makes no sense, self esteem comes from establishing your goals of your own self interest. When you do that you can acheive pride which is the source of self esteem. Objectivism promotes in its ethics. To say anything else is rediculous so your statement either shows that you dont know objectivism or that you evade the facts of reality. I'll let you pick which one.

[Mal1234567]

@Bigturns33 "To say anything else [other than Objectivist dogma] is rediculous [sic]." Excuse me, you're religion is showing!

[Mal1234567]

@Bigturns33 The "goal of my own self interest" of the moment is to sleep - self-esteem!

Observe the inaccuracy of this braggart's own statements: it is not "goal of my own self interest," it is "the achievement of values." And values are defined very rigidly in the Objectivist Bible. Therefore they are not the "goals of your own self interest" until you become a Believer and adopt them into your set of self interests. So you see, Objectivism is a religion.

[Bigturns33]

sleep is not something of self interest. If you dont sleep you will become delusional and therefore will be irrational. Thus sleep is in everyones self interest in order to able to function in a society. Next, If you have a RATIONAL goal that promotes your life and self worth that is RATIONAL. Acheiveing a educational goal, a work goal, building a house you set out to. When you reach goals on somethign you value you have pride which leads to self worth/self esteem. Game, set, and Match.

[Mal1234567]

Your first two statements are contradictory. Obviously the avoidance of irrationality and delusion is in everybody's self-interest, therefore so is sleeping.

[ababastingababa]

What is objectivism?

[Sam26100]

Objectivism is a philosophy, where objective thinking is concidered very important.

[pairunoyd]

self-Esteem

ExcellEnt

[elektroglide]

i'm not aware of another human being who has synthesised a more comprehensive, benevolent, and sane philosophy of what it means to be human. i have yet to find a book of branden's which i would not recommend wholeheartedly. the breadth and depth of the man's work is astounding. he is a giant.

[samuelmorrison]

Branden has a lot to offer. His books are excellent. I recommend his Six Pillars of Self Esteem. He explains matters well and challenges the reader. He never sugar coats or offers trite advice.

[tomdownes1]

Don't forget Branden's book "The Disowned Self". I love this book, because it explains how many people suppress natural, healthy responses to life. Instead of accepting or trying to understand their emotions, they feel guilty and tell themselves to never feel the emotion again.

But he doesn't just say that emotions are valuable, he explains their role. "The Disowned Self" is a great book, especially for O'ists who take Rand's philosophy to mean that certain emotions must be avoided.

[cropperb]

Thanks, i've never read the "disowned self". I'm resolved to go buy a used copy now...

[MetaMorphy]

I don't know. I have mixed feelings about Branden at best. Some of the stuff he says seems a little hippy-ish. I would not necessarily feel "alien" if no non-human life existed: I would feel like the winner of Survivor---the best by test. The Branden affair was just ridiculous. Absolutely the stupidest split I have ever, ever scene. That affair had bad idea written all over it, and I never found a good explanation for a philosophical split. The philosophical differences were present earlier.

[cropperb]

Yeah, Branden is a big influence in some psychology movements today and his stance can be fairly emotionalist. But the books above are definitly not without value, which is to say that though they have some drivel, there's not much drivel, and the good stuff is authentic rational scholarship. As for the affair - in a thousand years, it won't matter. I know Objectivism is correct and that's what I study and try to spread.

[wnsyipsp]

When were those books written? Were they written before or after Nathaniel Branden became a sniveling shrew who accused Ayn Rand of dogmatism and emotionalism?

[cropperb]

Both published in the 1970's. I don't know about the other stuff.

[tdekom]

I enjoyed the video, but I do inquire as to what happened with Nat Branden and Rand. I watched the 'A Sense of Life' Documentary and I know they had an affair, but that is not what I do not understand. I don't really know why Rand broke all ties with him, and to be honest I really don't know that much about the guy himself. I don't know how knowledgeable you are on the subject, but you might be able to address this with a video or something.

[cropperb]

I don't know much more than that. You could read Barbara Branden's biography, "Ayn Rand". But the details don't interest me much. It seems to have been a sordid affair, but Jefferson owned slaves. There's more important things to talk about.

[cropperb]

I say there's more important things, but I've read a couple biographies of Rand out of curiosity, so I don't criticize you for asking. But, for instance, Robert Tracinski was recently discommunicated from Objectivism. I still read all the stuff I want and get what I can from it... Ya know?

[GetMeThere1]

I get chills when I see the use of the word "discommunicated." I've loved Ayn's novels--and got a kick out of what a slut Barbara Branden saw her as...but all the "objectivist club" stuff is FRIGHTENINGLY cultish sounding...

[CrazyCarl15367]

Branden started yet another affair with a young objectivist student he had met. He also used Rand's ties to further his own career, leeching off of her greatness for some time. The combination of these two things led to her severing all ties with him. By the way, as cropperb already stated, you could read "The Passion of Ayn Rand" by Nat's wife, Barbara. It's a great read. I personally recommend it.

[elektroglide]

haha - another fine example of "objective" balanced commentary. not!

from outside, the extent to which dogma and dysfunction (origins of which appear to have been present in rand's personality) distort objectivist culture and thinking is considerable. zoom out a bit!

[fntime]

You mean he started an affair with a young

objectivist student...while he was having an

affair with Ayn Rand...I attended Nathaniel

BrandonInstitute Lectures and must say,

Ayn Rand's irrational attack

on Brandon, can only be explained by the notion of a "woman scorned"

He may have been flawed and I think his books

on pyschology are very over rated from todays

perspective..But if there was a guilty party

it was Ayn Rand an older woman who took advantage of a young student, N Brandon.