Forge welding a knife from a timing chain - Part One

[catfish4975]

Does the hydraulic press work better than a power hammer for this kind of work? It seems to me like it might be more controllable not to mention it is under tremendous pressure for longer, which might make for better and stronger welds.

[TOMHYLE88]

I love that press. Did I see some wiggle in the top jaw on the narrow side?  Is that a removable jaw?

[omalleynz]

@TOMHYLE88 There is some play in the press...to remove that I need to pack out the link pin at the bottom of the ram. Removable, yes. The dies can be quickly swapped in and out. Thanks for watching.

[MrOlekul]

1:20 hwats that powder? and hwat is it for?

[omalleynz]

@MrOlekul The powder is flux (anhydrous borax) that helps the steel bind together.

[TheGavinch]

Looks like it'd make some pretty cool damascus

[steffo1]

nice hammer. not

[offenwrong]

out of curiosity what kind of trouble would I be causing myself if I were to take a few busted buck knife blades and forge weld them to make something else

[mojothemigo]

@offenwrong If it is a stainless steel, you are asking for possable big snoots full of nasty gass from the chromium leaching and burning out of it. Stainless can be forged to my knowledge, but it is done at lower heat levels best to my knowledge. Not sure about recycling hardened, heat treated blades though. Also the possibility of different steels of different blades come in to play. The later 2 things might make a bad knife and frustrate you, the former could hurt you

[offenwrong]

@mojothemigo so I think maybe I wont do that...I chose the name I have for a reason...no need to tempt fate....lol...thanks for the info

[mojothemigo]

@offenwrong You are welcome.

[omalleynz]

@offenwrong Well, one of the potential problems is attempting to weld different steels...you may not fully know what each steel is. However if the steels did weld together then you may end up with some interesting patterns.

[ocurrencias1]

oye necesito una solera de acero damasco, quien me la puede facilitar

[deaultusername]

the press homemade or bought?

nice idea with the chain billet

[maxinpains]

lol nice back ground music...

[billygotgrove]

Kiwi! Home of cool people, cool accents and the LOTR setting! Great vid

[rcmoot]

your compressing when it is too cold

[jimmyleg5]

@rcmoot nope.

[stienerrecliner]

When you were moving the chain with the blade still spinning i was so scared you would cut your hand off ;P be more careful!!! cover the blade or wait for it to stop spinning!! 

[PointRecce]

Good video. Music is unnecessary. Its hard to hear what you are saying.

[Breathor]

2 things.

1. Eurofags

2. Hydraulic hammer.....

EW!

[Honken]

@Breathor

If you'd payed attention in grade school geography, you'd know that New Zealand is in Australia and not in Europe. That and the fact that Europeans usually don't have Australian accents.

[Breathor]

@Honken quiet down now, eurofag

[Honken]

@Breathor

Now you're getting it! Damn son, I'm proud of you.

[kalevraa]

@Honken new zealand is in australia? what are you smoking?

[Honken]

@kalevraa

The continent, not the country. I don't smoke :)

[kalevraa]

@Honken good on ya. for a moment there my mind reeled... :o

[kaldicuct]

every time i see the thumbnail for this video. it looks like you bloodied your hand in a white glove. lol, get a kick out of it every time.

[themusic928]

I usually see borax in grocery stores for laundry purposes is that the same stuff you used?

[shittyfuck]

but is it just trash metal? so bad for the blade ?

[Rockunstank]

Son--you need to watch this video of a 16 yr old kid from The States forging a railroad spike into a fugging great kinfe--old school.

[pkqkennywood]

nice video.. i have chain from motorcycles and was thinkin of using that to start with

[sockless67]

Where in NZ would you get borax from?

[1234Guitarman1234]

@sockless67 i live in aus and i got mine from Woolworths(grocer store) it is a cleaning chemical, should be in the cleaning isle.

[omalleynz]

@sockless67 A pottery suppliers should have some. Anhydrous Borax is the correct stuff (anhydrous means it has little or no water in it...means less spitting when putting onto hot steel).

[colecross24]

What pound press are you using?

[omalleynz]

@colecross24 It's 24 ton.

[tkrenshaw]

badass. Thank you for posting.

[tkrenshaw]

badass. Thank you for posting.

[p0rkjell0]

Not all of us have $50,000 worth of equipment... show us how to make this in an open field with no tools...

[omalleynz]

@p0rkjell0 Well, that's not entirely correct. The first knife I made was from a file, and I used a B&D Dragster hand-held belt sander mounted upside down in a vice to shape the blade. I agree there are some things you have to have...a forge (to get the blade to critical temperature), and a way to grind. I don't drink, smoke, do drugs etc, and have four kids and wife. I guess it comes down to how you spend your $.

[citydriver]

@p0rkjell0 with NO tools? well ya kinda need tools to do forging

[LaughTonyLaugh]

@p0rkjell0 lol thats not even 50k worth of equipment you can have most of that stuff for well under ten and you can easily weld that with a hammer just would take more time

[blacksmither1]

you should have put in some hammer work and not just the forging press.still great work.keep on forging.

[omalleynz]

@blacksmither1 I did some final shaping with a hammer but didn't video it. Thanks for watching.

[Dalton01Baby]

Nice way to protect your veiwers from the arc welder, put up a sun screen

[COMBATBOOOTS]

that knife came out awsome

[mkrabach3]

Interesting, but why do we need music with a welding video? Your explaining is probably adequate, if I could hear it through the music.

[cowsrcool7658]

what color does steel need to be to forge weld small stuff

[crusnik984]

Exactly what did u use to weld the steel together? cause ive been trying find out what to use best and i cant find any thing.

[omalleynz]

@crusnik984 Look up anhydrous borax. That's the stuff that will help the steels weld together. Good luck!

[hanzithaking]

where can i get/make flux i tried welding a ball-bearing but it wouldnt melt into each other :(

[omalleynz]

@hanzithaking Don't give up! Keep trying, and grab Wayne Goddard's '$50 knife book' as a great tutorial. Anhydrous borax is what you need...you can get this stuff from a few sources, including florists! Search the web and you'll find a supplier. Borax will help a lot, but ball bearings could prove quite a technical challenge, particularly if they are small and you're aiming to weld them together. Have you tried making damascus from wire rope?

[hanzithaking]

@omalleynz no but im hoping to try it once my dad is taking some 3inch rope from work for me and the borax im gonna try finding very soon and then ill try :D

[jonneyj]

What powder is he putting on it??

[3633tg]

wish i had those tools

[VTwanderer]

Cool, did you use an old wood splitter for your press?

[MarcSuttie]

@HomoGnosticus : The borax is the flux used to clean the impurities off the steel, giving a 100% pure steel to steel bond. Without it, a weld is very unlikely to succeed. Borax is an available and cheap flux.

[HomoGnosticus]

What´s the purpose of putting the borax around the hot steel?

Your press is very cool, btw.

[wendyonetwenty]

amazed you still have all your fingers you numpty... nothing like safety eh?

[15joey04]

Thanks for sharing

[Gonamez]

Perfect workshop u lucky pig!

[brewa90]

good job!

[robcuda67]

i tried this and it didnt work out at all.

it sucked

[captaincoolness55]

NICE MAN! :D i'd never have thought of using a chain to do this project! great work!

[sstorholm]

What's that flux you use? Homebrew or bought?

[Cstrife234]

Well if you don't have flux...roll your billet/work piece in liquid ash and straw. The Japanese used this technique to help them weld and fold their metal. Stops the surface from oxidizing.

[Parent33w]

I didn't realize that; I thought the organic was primarily for the carbon strength/hardness..

[1metalnation]

its borax, works like a charm

[tbroofer]

do you have to re flux after each pressing and cooling?

[MisterBaz1]

What grade steel is that timing chain? It isn't some variant of spring steel is it? 52100, 5160?

[omalleynz]

I honestly don't know, but it is a high carbon steel, and could be one of those you mention. Because of this unknown quality, my heat treat was to bring to just over critical (non magnetic) temperature, then quench in water. Thanks for looking.

[popsicklestick1]

ok thanks i am biulding my own shop and i was trying to decide between a press or hammer because im getting into damascus

[popsicklestick1]

if u dont mind me asking how much did it cost to biuld ur press

[omalleynz]

No I don't mind. I'm in New Zealand, so factor that in, but the relative prices might be similar. Press frame and steel - (some was procured from scrap) - $400. Cylindar, control, pump - $1000; Motor $300; hydraulics (pipe, fittings, fluid) $800. I did a lot of the welding, and got given misc steel plate to make the hyd oil box. One of the biggest surpises was the hyd fittings. Each one was around $50. I reckon find an old unit (splitter etc) and use the fittings from that.

[dawg1157]

just curious... did u teach yourself how to use a forge? im just wondering how easy it is if I already have a basic understanding of metalwork.

[omalleynz]

Cont. I saved a lot of money doing as much of the construction as possible (mounting the motor, make the steel plate guides etc), and there was a lot of running around getting the hydraulic parts. Overall, I really enjoyed getting it together.

[miroradev]

And where the hell am i gonna get that alien tehnology from

[DarkMark999]

Go to any fabrication workshop around ur area, you'l normally find they have old tools and equiptment they used before they could afford like, a proper press ect they might be willing to sell you it. never know..

/ Nice ghetto press you got there sir :P

[jpucao]

And the second problem is I just don't know much about steel. I.e. where to get it from, what kind of scrap steel works best, etc etc.

For the flux, where do you get Borax from. I've heard some people talk about using washing powder, does this work?

By the way, the reason I say its great to have someone from NZ posting videos is that I can ask questions and you would probably be able to give me answers that are actually applicable to what is available here in NZ

[omalleynz]

Start looking for steel from saw mills...they're often really approachable about getting rid of their damaged blades...doesn't hurt to have a dozen in the boot to sweeten the deal. Happy to answer your questions, drop me a pm.

[jpucao]

Hi there. It is great to see someone from NZ posting a forge welding video. I live in NZ and would love to take up knife making and forge welding as a hobby but I have two major problems. The 1st is the forge, I have tried to make one but just cant get my hands on the right materials. So I am looking to buy one, but they are rather expensive since most come from the states. Have you heard of the Diamondback Ironworks forges, they look pretty good to me, what do you think?

[omalleynz]

Thanks for your feedback. Yes, anyone can have a go at this stuff, you just start with basic tools and go from there. Diamondback looks awesome. Send me a private msg and I'll flick you some url's that might be handy.

[KiriakosKABOOM]

hey..do chains from bicycles do any work for this??..but i dont know..what kind of steel is used in those chains..wont the metal get rusty soon?..and does the chain metal have enough carbon in it so the knife can be hard in the end??

[omalleynz]

I'd expect so...I've presently forging a roller door chain, so I'll let you know. Yes, being carbon steel, it will rust. Any carbon steel will need to be looked after and kept clean and dry. As for carbon content, it was a risk working with unknown steel! My assumption was that a hard working chain (from an internal combustion engine) should have the required carbon content.

[Bertziethegreat]

Why chain, out of curiosity?

[landonClementeC]

im guessing its unique

[omalleynz]

Yes because it's unique, and out of my curiosity! I didn't know how it would turn out, or if the steel would even be suitable (though being an internal chain, I made an assumption that it would be tough steel). So it was a bit of a punt, but turned out ok in the end. I have three more pieces from the original billet...I'm keen to see how these grind up also. That's a future project...lately I've been making some O1/L6 stacked damascus.

[viper8red]

I agree with Kahul. Your really going the wrong direction with the press. Just get yourself a decent anvil and learn how to do this with a hammer. Not only will you have more controlability but you'll definitely get a better weld. It doesnt take herculean strength to get a forge weld. In fact gentle hits are preferable.

[omalleynz]

Yeah, I've got hammer and anvil, which I still need in conjunction with the press. You're right, it's about technique and control. Besides everything else though, the press is great fun to use, and fast!

[kahul2]

just a friendly question but what convinced you to build a hydr. press for this work instead of getting a power hammer? it would take finesse and experience to do a forge weld on it and not lnock it apart but it would be much more versatile for the rest of the forging

not criticizing just asking

[captaincavemaaaannn]

I think he must do a lot of this sort of thing. Imagine doing this by hand. Not sure how much quicker the press would be than a power hammer (do you mean drop hammer)?.

[kahul2]

actually an experienced smith could easily do that by hand, it is a misconception that a forge weld needs massive amounts of force to stick. forge welding is really just the balance of the exactly correct heat paired with an even force where the weld is to be achieved. I suppose I should have been more specific I meant an air hammer like a big blue or little giant or even a mechanical hammer like a homemade tire hammer

[captaincavemaaaannn]

Hey I know it's possable by hand done a bit myself (it's like beating toffee). All i was saying was it would be a lot more work to do by hand. If you've done any you will know. It's a very nice press too.

[omalleynz]

One of the reasons was the rarity of power hammers in New Zealand (where I live). Also, a power hammer (Little Giant, Big Blue etc) are very heavy - that is, they weigh tons! The press is probably around 450Kg, so a *little* easier to move around. Another reason is that, with help, I was able to build the press, something I couldn't do for a power hammer (though I have seen some neat treadle hammers).

[Pierre8907]

geeze, the steel blocks you use for pressing really like to suck the heat out of that steel your trying to weld.

[omalleynz]

Absolutely, and consequently need constant reheating. Also, the dies and body of the press draw the heat, and end up very hot.

[TheBlacksmith58]

To be honest I think a smith with a good arm and a 3 to 4 Lb. hammer could do as well or better than that press......but if you like it thats great. Looks like the knife turned out quite nice in part 2, Good video.

[omalleynz]

Yes, I agree...I have the greatest admiration for any experienced blacksmith (I am not one) who can make just about anything. My first damascus blade was hand hammered from 1 inch wire rope - that took some beating! The hyd press is great for applying even pressure over a wide area. Given more (much more!) experience I will improve my hand work, but I was finding the new welds could 'pop open' when working the steel...something experience (and a decent arm!) will help with. Thanks for looking.

[EbolaV1rus]

Really neat! Now if only I could get my husband to do this so he could make me some neat stuff...Who knows..maybe I will just learn how to do it myself! =)

Thanks for sharing!

[omalleynz]

Oh for sure! Have a go yourself...this hobby is way too man-heavy! Seriously though, there is no greater satisfaction that using a knife in the kitchen that you've made.

[graffitiballz]

zinc safety is blown way outta proportion.

[hathegkla]

what kind of forge do you use? I've build a coal forge before but I'm considering making a gas forge soon. I like the size of yours.

[gorillailla202]

i was way more interested in that press u have there lol. u should make a vid about it

[omalleynz]

Great idea! I've got a couple more dies to make first, then I'll put something together. The press is an incredible machine. Thanks for posting.

[gorillailla202]

Yeah for sure due :D

great vid BTW

[ghillieman1911]

is that rod galvanized? gotta be careful man, that stuff can give you cancer or something when you put it in the forge. really good video anyways

[omalleynz]

Thanks for your concern. Yes, galv fumes can be some bad stuff, but none of the steel I forge is galvanized.

[lGzYl]

pretty cool.. thanks for sharing. :)

[ActaSanctorum]

will you share some deatails with me about this press of yours? I've seen a mini press that uses a 20ton bottle jack, but yours looks substantially larger

[cholopavo]

not my chosen way of forging but that auto hammer is pretty dang cool

[zranzran]

what is that white powder that you drop on the piece when it is red-hot?..... an ammateur here, thanks in advance

[JonSpink]

Flux. not sure what kind though, its a material that coats metal and stops it oxidising when hot so its easier to solder or weld to.

[ActaSanctorum]

Often it's borax. 20 mule team laundry borax is a favorite

[omalleynz]

JonSpink has nailed it - the borax I use use is anhydrous (where any water has been removed).

[NancyPelosi200]

leet. I want to blacksmith

[Moongirl9]

that's not very fair, he didn't take the time to make the blade.

[dawolfdawg]

looks more like machining and less like forging

[ActaSanctorum]

the work is done hot, so it's considered forging

[omalleynz]

Yes, as Acta says below, moving metal is forging; removing is machining.

[viper8red]

using a hydraulic press is cheating lol.. shame shame lol

Really cool video though and cool video. What metal is that timing chain made form?

[mortson978]

Well, being as though he was mig welding the billet, I would say without a doubt, it was Steel.

[omalleynz]

Yes, steel with an unknown carbon content! Risky I know, but for heat treating, I took it to non-magnetic and quenched in oil.

[Takuan66]

Greath video but the music suck!

[omalleynz]

The full welly! I want to make sure that the initial pressing of the hot steel is as tight as possible. You'll see in the video that I press the hot billet with the long die - this provides an even pressure over the entire billet. The shorter drawing die (which by nature of being half the length will have more pressure) is then used to draw our the hot billet. Thanks for looking.

[wil12345678910liam]

what psi do you forge weld at?

[bpyfiend]

That is some really neat work! How much force does your press put out? I'm thinking of building a 24 ton.

[omalleynz]

Hi, thanks for your comment. This is a 24 ton press, so enough to make damascus steel. It is based on a pump producing 2500 psi of pressure, and a 5" ram with 8" stroke.