Re: Tragedy in Northern Illinois - NIU shooting

[cypherphage]

Moreover, when you factor in race and gender, they (if not adjusted for poverty) show African Americans are the most likely to be perpetrators and victims of gun violence (I would wager that is tightly correlated to poverty and education). In other words, banning guns is a band aid solution that ignores the root problems. Moreover, gun banning is unconstitutional and denies freedom, which I know you don't much care about but some people do.

[cypherphage]

The strongest evidence I can think of without spending several days doing research (I am a bit busy for that right now) is that in areas of high gun control, there can still be high levels of gun violence (such as in DC). Trying to restrict weapons is highly problematic as "Results from the ATF's Youth Crime Gun Interdiction Initiative indicate that the percentage of imported guns involved in crimes is tied to the stringency of local firearm laws." (atf dot gov/firearms/ycgii).

[TheModestAgnostic]

FanBoy1977, the stats are per capita. This does look at population.

ooops you are right. That statement is somewhat imprecise. I meant to say "Gun ownership does not always trend with gun deaths, but the REVERSE is always true. That is to say, it is quite unusual to have high gun deaths with low gun ownership. Nation Master backs this up. There are some developing countries that depart from the norm, but in Europe and similar developed regions this is solidly backed.

[TheModestAgnostic]

Something else is in play in the US, the most sensible approach is to limit access to guns, because we know that works. We don't need to do this in Switerland because they don't have a gun death rate 500% higher than the rest of the developed world.

[FanBoy1977]

Also you must look at population levels..fact there are more people in the US than in Switserland so obviously there would be a higher crime rate

[cypherphage]

First, you said the same illogical thing...guns don trend, but do. That is an illogical statement, it can't be a non-corelation and a corelation. Moreover, it is not an cultural problem, but a problem mostly with people who have no prospect and get drug into drug wars and crime. Unless you have lived here, you shouldn't presume to understand the culture whihc you have so broadly characterised us as dangerous maniacs. Please, stop demanding the us give up its rights to gun ownership.

[TheModestAgnostic]

Your video completely misses the point. Gun ownership does not always trend with gun deaths, but GUN DEATHS do. It is a combination of cultural inability to use guns responsibly, and ready access that causes the deaths. Countries with heavily regulated gun ownership have (in most cases) less, crime than the US, and gun deaths are ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE lower. Your video is fractally wrong, that is to say, wrong at every level, and from almost every perspective. Its in nationmaster, look & learn.