BBE 882i Sonic Maximizer: Excitement Of Sound Enhancement

[link32685]

I have a few of these! I first got one for my bass rig and it made an amazing difference. I always describe it as that little thing that's always missing. You can sit there and mess with your settings all day but there's always something missing, the Sonic Maximizer is that something. Later I added one to my guitar rig and was again astounded by the difference and clarity and overall sound it made. Now I've also added one between my keyboard and mixer. I think every musician should have one!

[Brandovibe]

Ever hear it used solely on vocals in a live application? If the signal was being processed prior to it reaching the board, would it still work? If it would, would this be beneficial to use before or after an effects processor in the loop? Thanks for any help with those questions.

[noodlecake71240]

I keep hearing mixed opinions on these things. Some love it, some hate it. From what I'm seeing here, it looks like a lazy eq, with a bass knob and a treble knob

[Trevorcjx]

Would i be able to use Channel A for lets say my bass amp, and then with the same Sonic Maximizer would i be able to plug Channel B into a guitar amp at the same time at a gig?

[mangenkyu]

"The use of this (points to the BBE hardware) is studio signal paths; a lot of major studios now have these" WRONG! Real studios use EQs and compressors to do what this BBE device. Its market is amateur musicians and engineers who don't have the knowledge and/or talent to use standard studio equipment.

[huggu55]

@mangenkyu i wanna hear one of your mixes, and you better use EQ and compressors bitch.

[Fireblaze15]

@mangenkyu Compressors squish the sound and push out making it sound louder. The maximizer just takes the sound.. and amplifies the frequencies more than an EQ can. Ive played with it on the guitar and with DAW's.

[jbealsmusic]

I fail to see how this is any different than a limiter with EQ. Could someone explain?

[KaslarProductions]

@jbealsmusic Low,Mid,and Hi frequencies travel through the air at different speeds. This will compensate for that.

[jbealsmusic]

@KaslarProductions Ummm... No. Please re-attend Physics 101. That's impossible. Practically speaking, all the clips I've heard from this thing and I still don't hear any differences that can't be done with a standard EQ and a limiter.

[KaslarProductions]

@jbealsmusic You don't have to believe me. But thats what phase realignment is. Do some basic research before you look like a moron again. talkbass com/forum/f36/bbe-sonic-maximi­zer-science-666879/

[jbealsmusic]

@KaslarProductions No need for name calling here. It's just a discussion regarding a piece of music equipment. I wasn't trying to be rude with my comment. You clearly lack any training or education in this field and simply posted the first technical sounding explanation you had (or could find using google). What the first post describes has nothing to do with frequencies travelling through the air at different speeds (which is a violation of the laws of physics).

[jbealsmusic]

@KaslarProductions PS - If you would have continued your "research", you would have found that the sonic difference from the "phase realignment process" is inaudible. The difference people are hearing when using this unit is only apparent when they use the front panel controls. The front panel controls do nothing more than basic EQ shaping. Even if you don't research any more than the link you gave me, at least continue reading the rebuttal posts in that very same thread.

[jbealsmusic]

@KaslarProductions PPS - If you don't believe me, read the actual specs of the unit to see what it does, not what this video (or some random forum writer) says it does.

bbesound com/products/manuals/882_manua­l.pdf

[KaslarProductions]

"When these complex relationships pass through a speaker, the proper order is lost. The higher frequencies are delayed.

A lower frequency may reach the listener's ear first or perhaps simultaneously with that of a higher frequency. In some

cases, the fundamental components may be so time-shifted that they reach the listener's ear ahead of some or all of

the harmonic components. " nuff said

[jbealsmusic]

@KaslarProductions Yes, this phenomenon exists. It's a difference of only a few milliseconds and even with compensation the difference is virtually inaudible to the human ear. That "time-shift" is not frequencies travelling through the air at different speeds as you originally claimed. Perhaps you should keep studying and learning how this stuff works rather than taking the first thing you think supports your argument (whether you understand it or not) and posting it here.

[skywalker3012]

@KaslarProductions Sound travels through the air at the same speed, regardless of the frequency. It is however, the frequency that defines how the waveform interacts with the medium with which it is travelling. Lower frequencies are less likely to be affected by air and all the other particles in it (Dust, smoke etc), and tend to reach the target first should there be a situation where the higher frequencies are interupted for whatever reason.

[skywalker3012]

@skywalker3012 If there are frequencies that are noticably out of phase, then yes, correction would make a significant amount of difference, depending on how much the waveforms are out. Just get your favourite DAW, find an audio sample, and disalign it by a few ms, most of the time (Depending on the frequency), you'll hear some sort of audio loss. Just whack a VST maximiser on it and hear it sing. Any phase correction software/hardware will do though.

This is a message to all :)

[acrock21]

you can use this for recording ? and vocals ?

[romchill35]

How can you hear the clipping?

[bigbthedj1]

Could I use my BBE882i as a crossover??

[CORRAPOLLO]

Has anyone used this on Vocals?

[CORRAPOLLO]

Has anyone used this on Vocals?

[WinterExile]

Forgive me if i'm retarded but is this REALLY helpful (on guitars)? It seems a stupid question and maybe it is, but is this something you would recommend?

[KazKylheku]

The signal used in this video does not really demonstrate the effect. The problem is that the high/low/mid parts of the signal are actually tied to the separate instruments, like the high hat (treble) or kick drum (bass). When the maximizer changes the timing between low and high frequencies, this translates to some offset between snare and kick, which you can't really hear. Maybe there is something there, but it's not apparent at this encoding quality.

[EbokaiMusic]

It's a great tool for remastering old material. You can really get a lot of detail back.

[DLRisVH]

Great piece of gear.

[MCSKEPTICAL559]

can some one tell me if this works good for studio condensor mics? or just insturments?-

[chum1002]

@MCSKEPTICAL559 Of course it works. For everything. That's why people use it.

[MCSKEPTICAL559]

@chum1002

fukk youu then.!

[evilsnakes1]

yep. flat panel tvs. you think that sony or samsung fuck around? that they use it in that mega billionare industry says more than you can possibly deny. why would they bother? cause it sounds good.

Having said that, the big studios DO use this kind of technology. Maybe not BBE's, but certainly something. And by the time ANYTHING hits FM radio, there is 0 chance that it isn't being processed.

That your friend bought one without researching first says nothing about the worth of these things.

[evilsnakes1]

...having said that:

"I dunno, I just bought it cause I saw some bass player with a good tone using it."

...well, I guess your ignorant friend who doesn't know shit knows when he hears something that he likes, and that, in the end, is what it is all about. And the BBE is right for him because it is painfully simple and instantly produces a "better" sound.

[furr0ci0us]

The reason they claim they do nothing they can't do with a good eq is because it's the truth. I'm the farthest thing from a purist.. I edit everything to hell and back and everything is mixed itb.

"Standard kit?" What the heck does that even mean?!

If you seriously use a bbe for mastering... I can't wait to hear your tracks. That's the last thing anyone who knows what they're doing would use.

No, i don't think that. Noise gates and expanders actually have a use. bbe sonic maximizers? Nah.

[Minocan]

Got this with BBE DI 400, had DI 1000x, 5 channels of maximizing, perfect for keyboards.

[eZeFr]

shitty sound on a channel called "gearwire"...

[furr0ci0us]

They should call this piece of crap the sonic scooper.

I'm sure it sells insanely well to total noobs.

[ShredCorpse]

@furr0ci0us why don't you like it? I'm looking to build a rig for my guitar, what would you reccommend?

[furr0ci0us]

@ShredCorpse all this is is a two band equalizer, and it just scoops the mids. that's the last thing you wanna do if you're playing with a band.

you really need a lot of extra things. just keep the mids up.

[ShredCorpse]

@furr0ci0us ahh thanks. I just need a solid tone, my tone now out of my crummy marshall mg250dfx is too muddy and I need something for a more solid tone. I deffidentally don't need extra lows. Ill prob just save for a nice peavey tube head and a vader cab, or a basson. I don't know much about tone, I just know what I like. .

[evilsnakes1]

@furr0ci0us

Ummmm, truly you are clueless

[furr0ci0us]

@evilsnakes1

Ummmm, truly, you are an elephant.

See? I can do it too.



[evilsnakes1]

@furr0ci0us

yes, you are a monkey too ;)

To call an enhancer/exciter/etc nothing more than a bass/treble booster is ignorant as hell.  Moronic even.

[furr0ci0us]

@evilsnakes1

You clearly don't understand what I was getting at. You're making statements with absolutely nothing to back them up with.

Did you even watch the video? I'm a professional audio engineer, and honestly, anyone who buys this dumb thing over an eq has no idea what they're doing. I promise you, you can do EVERYTHING this useless piece of gear does with an eq.

The only exception there MAY be is if it has a limiter. If it does, though, why is there a clip LED?

[evilsnakes1]

@furr0ci0us

hello mr. "audio engineer"

please explain to my why there are so many enhancers/exciters. please explain to me how the harmonic manipulation involved is nothing more than boosting certain frequency bands. please explain to me how on consumer goods, an enhancer such as srs does nothing more than boost the lows and highs.

for sure, the processing involved targets the highs and lows, but to say that they simply boost them is plain retarded. forget the video, i have used bbe's.

[furr0ci0us]

@evilsnakes1

obviously you were trying to mock me, but i make a living as an audio engineer, so no mocking is necessary.

1. there are so many enhancers/exciters because noobs like you buy them.

2. "harmonic manipulation"? that doesn't even exist. the harmonics of a note are already in certain frequency bands, so you just boost or cut those bands.

3. i've never even heard of an srs, which is a testament to how useless it is.

4. again, no backup it's accurate, not retarded. i've used one too.

[evilsnakes1]

@furr0ci0us

right, no question that exciters/enhancers have been hotly debated since they arrived on the scene. no doubt there are many out there, "purists" I call them, that see no worth in them claim they do nothing they cant do with a good parametric. fact is, they are standard kit for good reason and i do not believe that whatever work you have been involved with doesn't master with them, outboard or vst/rtas/whatever. you probably think you can achieve noise canceling with your eq too.

[NLGuppy]

@furr0ci0us

strange.

An enhancer/sonic maximizer is NOT equal to an EQ.

an enhancer adds new octaves(low or high) of existing frequencies. you can control the volume of those octaves.(thats why the volume is harder). An eq only changes the volume of existing frequencies and does not adds new frequencies.

SRS is a company that makes plug-ins (like the SRS wow plug-in for windows media player)

[furr0ci0us]

@NLGuppy

This goes back to my original point. If you're using this to add other frequencies, you're going to crash into the frequencies that the other band members are using. If you're just playing at home by yourself, sure, scoop the crap out of your signal. Otherwise, you're going to muddy up the whole sound. Guitars are in the mids.

lol, SRS is not a professional audio company. It's for noobs who just want things to kinda sound better on their computer, and don't know how to otherwise.

[evilsnakes1]

@furr0ci0us

dood, you need to sit down.

"In 2008, approximately 36 million SRS-equipped flat-panel TVs were shipped, representing a 30-percent estimated market share"

You talk out your fucking ass like there is no tomorrow.

[evilsnakes1]

...and obviously you run the signal through one of these things POST eq (no one said you dont use eq as well) so only select frequencies are overly enhanced. obviously if EVERYONE used one and then you also used one to master everything would clash to a degree, depending on how much "wet" you use, but obviously there is a skill to using it and restraint is in order as well. I simply do not believe that you have any experience with something like this.

[furr0ci0us]

@evilsnakes1

"...FLAT-PANEL TVS..."

Once SRS has a 30 percent market share of enhancers in the pro audio plugins market, I'll be impressed. There's a reason it's in TVs and not in the hands of audio engineers.

Well, believe it. A friend of mine wanted me to set up his bass tone a couple of days back, and he had an eq as well as the BBE. I asked him why he had the BBE, and he said, "I dunno, I just bought it cause I saw some bass player with a good tone using it."

[KazKylheku]

@NLGuppy SRS is a company that makes plug-ins (like the SRS wow plug-in for windows media player)

SRS wow is something I have always turned off (as well as all other effects of its type). It sounds like complete garbage.

[drumsonly2002]

Great review Bill. Glad you used drums as the demo. Bought the same unit for my Ddrum SE 4 rig. I will vouch for this review as it does as advertised. it is like having a blanket removed from the front of the speakers.

[btyremanable]

I think EQ is better in a studio, but would probably use this live for guitar, however people have a tendency to over-excite things, and then people blame the unit for not being good enough

[LaniRockster]

buy one, you will wonder why you never had one.They make the half stacks sound great.

[sixvideos]

it's much better for guitar rigs etc..

[soulkeeper2200]

Crapy there is no impedance selector.

[Preeemo]

Okay so... high harmonics fall out of phase with the fundamental and first few harmonics and this lines them back up so that they don't overload the system?...but if you're putting the harmonics back in phase, it'll just get louder...sooo... that can't be the use for it, can it? Also, you'd think that if he was adjusting the phase of harmonics and not just tweaking an EQ, you'd hear some phasing occur... wouldn't you?

[P11GT]

@yin

youre right...but the sound will be tighter and more controlled... ;)

Its not a pure boost. Phase shifted...

[cosmogang]

Hey guys, it's not like an EQ - it fixes the phase of the signal so that the frequencies of the instrument reach your ear in the correct order. It does what an EQ could never do. You have to hear it live to understand.

[lordzbordom]

IDK wtf this thing does but I can tell you that the VST fucking rocks! When I get a PA Im going to by one of these shits!

[snowbrdr88]

it sounds like its just a "loudness" function on old stereos

[todAnthony]

About the mobile dj bit at the end: You would recommend going from the board to the sonic max then to the EQ then to a crossover? 

I was given a sonic max. but have yet to play with it. I was actually wondering what good it was when I found this vid.

Thank you in advance for advice.

[XafallenheroX]

the music sounds like the intro music for the dharma initative orientation videos

[mawkheaf]

can this be used for a home entertainment system? I've got some less than awesome speakers, and the receiver is a dumb ass, so it doesn't do a very good job of sending the right frequencies to the right speakers. the lows are muddy, the highs, and mids are not very clear, and worst of all if a song, or noise has a lot of bass I can hear the front position speakers crackle, and buzz even at very low volumes. maybe the speakers are blown? can the maximizer be used for home entertainment set ups?

[Blacklogic203]

@mawkheaf u sound like you got a plain ole beat up system. bring ya receiver to somebodies house and try they speakers. if it works good then u have ur answer.

[sk8monster112]

i have the sonic stomp, an isp decimator and a cry baby wah running in front of my amp...what order should they be in? amp-----isp-----sonic stomp-----wah-----guitar or does the sonic stomp go in front of the isp closest to the amp?

[frogscar]

@sk8monster112 The Sonic stomp should probably work better at the end of the chain right after the decimator. Wah pedals usually are the first thing you plug your guitar into. But if you have a FX loop in the amp that's the best place to connect the sonic maximizer, right before the power amp.

[btotheoob]

check out ALEEN on myspace

[fredturd]

Phht...Owen...

[demented132004]

Will this in any way wear your speakers out faster???

[danxl5]

Nope.

[SJP444]

I don't know man... It's stuff like this that makes your sound sterile. I mean, I guess it does what it's supposed to do BUT sometimes you don't want every sound really defined and seperated. That just sucks all the energy right out of the music.

[nickfromdtown1992]

yeah but when you play live everything gets jumbled into the speakers theyre miced through anyways. so if the signals go in separate then when they come out miced through the house speakers it doesnt sound sterile. i can vouch for that. ive seen it used live many times. so yeah you dont need to worry about that.

[chetoos008]

@nickfromdtown1992 mic'd lol

[brainphreak]

@SJP444 - Thats the difference between a pro sound engineer and an amateur. They will not use any effect or box really on EVERY song the same unless they suck. For mastering there is some things run on all, but if you do it right you would only use it where needed, and in other areas you will use tube pre's or other tube rack mount gear to give it that warm feeling in areas. So basically its just a tool, just like a guitar, you dont generally play only guitar for the whole album. Its moderation

[stubkar]

I need to find something to run from the "monitor" output on a vintage Gibson amp into a p.a. OR recording unit...the signal distorts a bit, currently....Would a direct box OR sonic maximizer help with this problem?

[bpcworship]

If this is somethis that is an EQ for dummies, is it something thar could help in a church application where I have untrained volunteers operating the board? A full 15 or 30 band EQ seems imposing for our application. Thoughts?

[cratemanman]

are u saying an graphic EQ is better or the BBS is better ?

[Blacklogic203]

@bpcworship a graphic eq is basically eqing ya speakers and the knobs on the boards that's connected to ya mics r controling mic eq. it's mad confusing hire an audio engineer 2 eq ya speakers properly. once u eq the speakers u shouldn't have 2 mess wit em no more

[143Chippy]

I bought one of these just to try it . And discovered that this is just a Glorified EQ for dummies. I compared this to a 15 band EQ and could get the same results. It doesnt do anything different than a EQ.

Just buy a good EQ and you actually have more control with your sound than this thing.

[yinyang0203]

I don't get it. How is this not just a 2 band equalizer? It sounds like it's just boosting the highs and lows. I'm confused...

[mbanda07]

@yinyang0203

it is dificult to explain, you should try one. It is not an equalizer, it is actually more of a propietary digital signal processor that uses 2 knobs for tweaking.

i am a engineer in electronic systems and the most practical explanation i can give to you, is that it gives 'Life' to the output signal.

it is like the most important element of my gear

[BullyBeat]

@yinyang0203

Thats all it is, HAHA

[Jasn1111]

@yinyang0203 It fixes any of the frequencies that become out of phase while EQ boosts or cuts a specfic frequency.

[yinyang0203]

@Jasn1111 What do you mean by "fixes?" Any simple EQ can do exactly what this thing does, which is cut the mids and boost the extremes.

[shikamoo]

@yinyang0203 The thing that makes it distinct from just boosting highs and lows is that if you just equalize, the lows are still being pumped out at the same time as the highs, but if you're listening to music live, those highs hit you just milliseconds quicker than the lows, the maximizer kicks out the lows out of phase and just behind the highs, so it's not all one muddy mush being pumped out at the same time, but there's the same 3-dimesnional depth as live. Make sense?

[sixvideos]

@yinyang0203

The BBE makes the overall sound more focused with a sharper edge, but without adding the excessive brightness that you would get by merely boosting the high end with the EQ. understand?

Greetings

[DerJust661]

@sixvideos Thats why I bought it for my guitar!

[Hemperor666]

D@yinyang0203 dude did you watch the video ? The sonic was totally maximized. The sound was boosted and cleaned up so much you'd have to be deaf not to notice it.

[jollykap]

@yinyang0203 you really need to experience harmonic processor to understand. For instance I record guitar through focusrite vintage processor and now anywhere els ei don't have harmonic in recording chain, I don't feel satisfied. Harmonics are not Eq.

[markyellowseries3]

@yinyang0203

It shifts the phase very slightly of frequencies to stop them distorting each other. the net result is a very clear wider sound.

[KazKylheku]

@markyellowseries3 "It shifts the phase very slightly of frequencies to stop them distorting each other. the net result is a very clear wider sound. "

That is the marketing claim behind the BBE.

Sure, and two drops of this magic liquid in the tank will restore the true mileage you already have in your gasoline and engine!!! Honest!

It's a mid-scooping equalizer, nothing more.

You have no idea what will happen to the phase in the loudspeakers; every speaker cabinet is different.

[YAGGAAA]

@yinyang0203 it has the same effect as a 2band EQ but it isnt the same than an EQ :P If you dont get this i cant help you

[MrJohnnyDistortion]

@yinyang0203 In a sense it is.My BBE462 manual stated that it splits the lo's/mid's/highs by milliseconds,fattening up the signal.These are great units if you use the proper 1 for your situation.The 462 was awesome for me as a guitarist.Worked well on a stereo system.

[chetoos008]

@yinyang0203 It supposedly slows down or holds back the high/mid frequencies and let the speakers produce only the low frequencies, then it lets the higher frequencies be outputted so that they both hit you at the same time.

[jgonz185]

@yinyang0203 as sophisticated as my car stereo

[sirus1987]

@yinyang0203 this thing is weird, you have to actually play with it to hear the difference. All I will say is dont play through a clean channel without it. It just makes notes jump out of the amp. Not a huge fan of it through a distorted guitar channel though

[JPicanteProductions]

if you need this to make your live mixing sound good you are doing stuff wrong

[OneisneO]

whywhywhywhy? somthing constructive please, not just a "this is shit" comment, why shouldn't I buy one of these?

[wxp24]

i have a marshall mg250dfx 2x12

its a 230 watt solid state and i was wondering if this would work on it

[PlumfulPixie]

it will work great!

[8x26x08]

would this work best in the FX loop of my amp, or the input section?

[notuern]

The fx-loop of course.

[scarylarys]

I have a bit of experience with the BBE stuff so I'll try to answer these. UHOH- They work just fine with Driveracks.

OnTheStaff--The difference between 4 and 882 is only the connectors.

[gyzmozinho]

Hi friend, i wanted to buy this thing and connect it to my toneport ux8(external soundcard), how would be the connections?

Hope you can help me out, thanks

\m/

[uhoh38125]

would it work to put this behind the mixer in my drum cage to send to the sound man with his huge board..he has a driverack up there too...is that gonna kill it?

[OntheStaff]

Anyone know of another good Signal Processor guitar rack mount. diff brand? Also, what is the real difference between 882i and 482i

[iLikechevelle]

Behringer sonic ultramizer.

[DrummerDude2134]

It's comparable to an EQ. for the person that asked what the difference is. I would prefer to use my Mesa's EQ and use this to add clairty.

[KJEboys]

I can hear the clarity..in the highs......how is this different from an EQ?

[wellsfights]

would it work good on a solid state amp?\

like a line 6 spider II??????

plz help!

[tylerjamesstephens]

Yes, it works well on a solid state amp. I use this on all of my tube amp heads, as well as my solid state Hughes and Kettner Vortex combo (I use it in the studio because of its clean tone). It is literally like day and night. Try and send it through an effects loop though if you can.

[niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiick]

your line6 spider isnt going to sound any better with a really hyped up 'sonic maximizer'. upgrade to a decent amp instead. yes - you will have to shell out but we all had to go there and it's worth it in the end. you can't disguise the shitness of a cheap low end digital modelling amp.

[TeleKeith]

You got that right. Then, once he's done that, he'll probably need to upgrade the pickups as well (or the guitar itself!). There's no substitute for doing the job right the first time. Can't run a donkey in the Kentucky Derby, no matter how much you dope it. :)

[iLikechevelle]

no, no pedals ever work good with that amp, specifically that line 6 model. It rejects all pedals.

[DJ32812]

i have heard this with the jbl eon series and it is awesome.  i will be getting one very soon!

[shreddmasterj]

try memorizing your lines...looks and sounds too much like its scripted.

[xXxPresRGAxXx]

I have this! so sick. Makes my Dual rec RAPE! its super! u need this if you dont have it yet.

[djfrankis]

i think my amplifyer is good FOR NOW!!!

[patrickman123]

im gettin one

[TheWALOS]

I love how he still seems dissatisfied with the sound at one point and says "notice if I turn the lows and the highs up--", and he tries to turn the knob and they're already at max.

[nnoyz1]

Good video, we have a BBe Maximizer, we are so used to having our sound clear now!

[Jiraiya000]

I have the Cowon O2 which uses BBE Enhancements and I completely love the sound it puts out!

The bass is strong and the trebles are high and clear. For mid, it is amazing as well! It brings out the mids and makes them quite clear. If you look around they even have this for Audio Inputs on Game Systems XP

[mudshovel508]

This wouldnt cut out mids whould it?

[emgduncanman]

no way man. i run a bbe 482i maximizer on my 6505+. whatever you have set on your amp or mixer, it will simply enhance it so to speak. you can find a perfect mix no matter what your running through these things. gods gift to a guitarists live rig! haha

[rockgardenrocks]

The best way to describe it, and I think this demo did a great job of that, is that it makes each frequency stand out and clarifies everything. We use our 482i over our PA to really clean things up in our overall mix. It works amazingly well considering how simple it is. We messed around with EQ for a long time before trying the BBE and just couldn't get anywhere near the difference the BBE gives us.

[bassist13]

It doesn't but you can easily get a scooped tone if you use too much of both the Lo-Contour and the Process.

[eliasthegreek]

Thank you for post this video.Could you do the same with a shred guitar maybe ,so we can hear the harmonics?

[rushentertainment]

Good video!!!! I have the same maxinizer for my mobile Dj setup and I love it it does make a diffrence!

[HoweGavin]

on my emx I can get a ghetto version of this by using short delay and turning the time to zero and then I use the depth knob as the maximizer