Kimura was a true judo sportist with a better technics and won. Simple. The Gracie family have to admit this and many other situations and this is very difficult because this family don't see this like a sport.
gracie brought a coffin to the ring for kimura, and padded the mat heavy so he wouldn't be knocked out by the throws from kimura, hilio gracie is a great fighter but he was no match to the great kimura who not only broke hilio's bones he also defeated v. santana who has defeated hilio 3 times, common people, you can't deny victory to the victor, hello!
I love BJJ to death but some of the Gracie's have this arrogance about them that just rubs me the wrong way. They always have some kind of excuse for every time they're beat. That to me is a very unbecoming trait for any one who trains in martial arts. They show know humbleness or humility at times, though sometimes this isn't the case. No disrespect to the family but i think you can all agree if you were to see some of the ridiculous things they have said or claimed.
ive seen smaller fighters overtake a larger fighter its called skill and helio is the one who called out kimura. not the other way around. thats why helio went to japan to try to show off his BJJ. thinking he even had a chance shows you how foolish pride gets you beat down.
@MrGreekthai really buddy everyone know he didn't invent the moves.. but he cherrypick 22 move give or take a few and there variations from hundreds of moves from Jiu-Jitsu and called it BJJ 10secs is what it took kimura to Ippon helio, why??? no standup defens that would have been end of round 1 and a win in judo but the fight continued till kimura was forced to break helios arm. look whos narrating helios son making excuses for his father slandering the japanese honor
@alexgattas That is what you judo fans don't understand ! BJJ is a different thing from judo that's why he was on his back there he felt stronger , it's like you say that they stole the moves , the art can't be stolen whether it is drawing,music etc,or martial arts ! If it is like that all moves were stolen from the pankration which was arguably the first martial art invented,and then boxing why kick boxing was invented?The punches are from the boxing style ohh they stole the punches u r right !
@MrGreekthai No it isn't, Maeda was a kodokan judoka, nothing about BJJ is brazilian or invented by the gracies, all they did was focus more on newaza, thats all - the reason kano focused less on newaza was because if you are thrown to the ground in real life with force - you don't need to submit, you won't get up. Kickboxing was developed from karate not boxing. BJJ is more sport orientated, whereas Judo is better for self-defense on the street, fights don't start on your back.
@MUEEN007 u should've known by now .. that every fight ENDS up on the ground..
im a traditional ju jitsu practitioner. and also about judo and self defense things thats crap :) . judo is also sport oriented so it doesnt fit good on the street like the traditional jiu jitsu wheres THE ONLY martial art where u train without no rules (JUDO HAS RULES, BJJ HAS RULES) and u train with 2 3 4 5 oponnents :). so sport guys gonna count points on the street? haha
@sk8sk8sk8sk8sks8 I agree that in a street fight there are no rules which is why I'd stab someone if I had to. samurai used Ju Jitsu in battle it was proven and affective. But that wouldn't make for a good sport : ) well maybe..I count points in a street fight knock out points. I give myself a point for every person I knock out its fun you should try it.also i've use UchI Mata in a street fight and the guy i was fight wished I hadn't the guys elbow was shattered from trying to catch himself : )
@MrGreekthai have fun playing on your back! by the thanks for reminding me to play battlefield 3 its been a while and i haven't ipponed.. i mean pawned. hope to see BJJ in the olympics soon. i wonder how you get gold in BJJ maybe most time spent on your back could win the gold what do you think.
I'm quite shocked at the comments I'm reading in this, especially from some of the so called Judokas, I've been practicing Judo since I was 5 years and I'm currently a Yondan at the Shobukan Dojo, in addition to this I'm currently a blue belt in BJJ and while I do agree that many of the techniques that the Gracies use were born out of Judo the same can be said for Judo which was born out of Traditional Jiujitsu. Judo and BJJ have more commonalities than differences.
@nicopepaldo1 You are forgetting Helio modified it to fit his small and thin body so he could apply it on bigger guys and all the trials and errors he went through
@nicopepaldo1 sorry but you're wrong, BJJ is far from a lie, traditional jj is quite different from today's BJJ, just as today's judo is pretty different from traditional judo. BJJ vastly expanded the technical aspects of ground fighting. Every martial art today can be traced back to something so I agree it's hard for someone to say they "invented" a move but there's no denying the Gracies greatly improved the ground fighting aspect of jj.
I don't see the 80 lbs difference. You must be a little pussy that jacks off every time it hears the mane Gracie. Of course Kimura was bigger but not by that much. Plus, Gracie did not inted to win the fight? My foot! The guy even had a coffen at the gym saying it was for Kimura.
Kimura outclassed him and beat him up. Helio may have been brave by not taping out, but still he got his butt kicked. Period
NEWSFLASH!: JUDO COMES FROM JIU-JITSU! It's interesting how judo guys like to point out that the Gracie's learned from judo guys but totally ignore the fact that Kano studied jiu-jitsu. It's just a name. Judo is Kano's brand of jiu-jitsu. It's even call Kano jiu-jitsu in many writings I have seen. Kano had his unique philosophy and training methods. Helio had a philosophy, training and teaching method all his own. All built around the idea that some big guy is going to try and smash your face.
@kahan01 Much agreed my friend, I'm quite shocked that many Judokas are so unaware of the art's history, which is sad as I'm a practitioner of both arts. People seem to be so enamored with trying to argue the two arts are different and which one is better when in reality they both have quite a bit in common and come from the same source.
@kahan01 everyone who studies judo know where it came from. but you can't take 22 moves and their variations from hundreds and still call it jiu-jitsu even if you add brazilian to it and call it a style BJJ is streamlined has many gaps, fights don't start from the flat of your back unless your fighting your wife in bed. there's very little standup to BJJ and thats where judo is more rounded. judokas also know how to roll leg locks were taken out of judo for sporting aspects to minimis injurys
No one knows exactly why Maeda called it Jiu-Jitsu instead of Judo. Many think it's because the Kodokan expelled him for fighting for money, which is against Kodokan rules.
There's really no difference between BJJ and pre-1925 Judo. Jigoro Kano's passion was throws. He never really cared much for ground fighting, so in '25, he set new rules limiting the time spent on the ground. What made it worse was when Kano's dream of Judo becoming an Olympic sport was realized. Further deteriorating Judo's ground fighting. The Gracies learned pre-1925 Judo from Maeda.
A destreza de Kimura é admirável e inconteste. Alegar força bruta ou qualquer outro subterfúgio para a sua vitória, é grave erro de julgamento. O judoísta japonês era altamente técnico e objetivo na execução de seus golpes e isso fica evidente no vídeo. Aliás, aos que se fiam no argumento da "grosseria" de Kimura, peço que, com base nas imagens acima, apontem, em qual momento da luta, este se valeu de alguma brutalidade para derrotar a Hélio Gracie.
@luiz1000 nessa epoca no japão o treinamento de judo se tinha muito treinamento de chão tbém, hj em dia e quase nda pq foca o hipon e não a finalização no chão.ou seja focado em olympiadas fazer oq ne
A diferença não é de 40 kg como disseram os Gracies..é só ver o tamanho dos 2 que a diferença de peso é pequena..mas existe uma grande diferença na habilidade dos 2.
built upon it therefore creating a new system as well as improving the old. regardless of each individuals personal opinion, BJJ and Judo are both amazing systems and will continue to build off each other.
Judo-more focus on takedowns, very strong traditional influence, mostly focuses on gi
Brazilian jiu jitsu- more focus on submissions and grappling, has increasingly modern influence and style, many gi and no gi schools
Although bjj may have modernized traditional judo, the core principals remain the same. Both disciplines are constantly evolving and continue to influence each other. The gracies did not invent anything new but rather they took a previously existin
80 lbs? Kimura weighed 180lbs and was 5'6. Rorion makes up this big story of the massive weight difference that did not exist. Helio was also not as small and frail as Rorion try's to get everyone to believe. Makes for good marketing but it hardly makes it true. If there was a 20-30 lb difference that was about it. Just look at the video, Neither man is that big and the difference is minimal.
I think the Gracie's need a image makeover big time, drop the tweaked history bit, the superior-art bit, the street-proven schtick. They are amazing teachers and have a incredibly complete martial art (diet, hygiene, morals, ranking, ect), THAT should be there bragging point
This fight only lasted 13 minutes. and the first 10 minutes of this fight were staged. The Brazilian council asked Kimura to stall the match so he would not humiliate Helio infront of the public. This is writen about in detail in Kimura's book "My Judo" also Maeda wrote about it in one of his own books as well. The Gracie's are nothing but liars and scam artists.
There are no "ancient techniques" of Judo. Spend a few years at any Judo club in the world and you'll learn Judo. It's that simple. It's not like there are 9th and 10th dans out there with secrets on scrolls. The Gracies are full of crap. Helio lost because Kimura was a better martial artist. Don't challenge someone if you're going to whine about the weight and age difference afterwards.
@1ikwid That's not necessarily true. They may not be ancient by pure definition, but they are ancient Jujitsu techniques which is what Judo came from. Judo is not that simple to learn. If it were, I'd be a shodan by now. There are definitely old "secrets" shared only with trusted people. Just ask any American who tries to train with old Japanese. They're "Unofficial" scrolls lol. But I do agree about the Gracies. The better fighter will win.
7- Kimura Judos takedown were not enought due to the paddle floor.
8-Kimura Broke Hélios arms.
9-I played basketeball with ledron james once, lost, but after 20 minutos of game i came to the conclusion that if i were the weight as him i would have won.
@YesWeCain8 If you think that Jon Jones would beat Helio Gracie in his prime you are on crack. Gracie was not fighting in timed rounds with a referee there to stand you up. It would have gone to the ground and stayed there for however long it took Helio to win. He once fought a guy that had a 100 pound weight advantage for 3 hours before choking him out. Jon Jones is just a striker with a flash game but in a real fight with no rounds and no referee a good grappler would take him.
@brianspost75 Helio grappled non-submission guys with no knowlegde of jiujitsu, and managed to beat them? Wow, that's incredible. I respect Gracies for inventing bjj, but it still doesnt make them stronger nor tougher than other guys.
Why doesn't anyone ever mention that Judo and BJJ are both derived from Japanese JuJitsu, which in turn has it's origins in ancient India. Get off your soapboxes and train anything, and everything, bunch of crybabies.
I think that any technique regardless of orgin,that proves useful in the defense of an individuals life should be appretiated.By the way,JUDO originated from traditional Japanese koryu jujitsu,and is also a modified style created by master Jigoro Kano.
The spring in the floor used by the Brazilians effectively neutralizes all the throws. I'd like to see if Heilo could have survived those 12 or so o soto garis if it was on pavement.
Jiujitsu is practiced on the same type of mat system that of a judo system.In the Olympics they compete on mats as well.Theres no spring under the mat/flooring.I for one practice on a canvas tarp with 3 layers of carpet like we did before practitioners became soft......
Helio born in October 1913, 1 Helio was 180 cm and 80 kg, 1913, Kimura born in September 10, 1917 (5 ft 7in 170 cm; 85 kg, 187 lb), so 4 years difference and 5 kg difference.
I'm sorry, but Maeda was a Judoka all the way. It annoys me that the gracies or BJJ guys in general try to avoid saying Judo when talking about BJJ's roots. Not all, but a lot of them do.
@noose357 judo is fantastic but the rules have changed it for the worse. If judo has stayed true to its roots then there would have been no opportunity for BJJ to grow and develop. Juodkas can't complain because their art lost its way and accepted aesthetics over practicality and application. Unfortunately judo continues to weaken itself through more rule changes
@TheGraciefight That has nothing to do with Judo being the root of BJJ. Whether people like it or not has nothing to do with a well documented fact. It sounds like you're starting a separate conversation. So to answer that, yes that's true. Silly rules have been and continue to limit Judo.But guess what? The same thing is happening to BJJ.Everything is being driven to be a spectator sport. It's as simple as that and not limited to Judo.
Kenka Judo is rare to find these days,but it's out there.
gotta love how instantly every1 on youtube is a blackbelt -.- helio lost this fight fair and square. but look at all the other fights when gracies started advertising their art mainstream. didnt see a single judoka do much against them. some ppl are mentioning ppl like matt hughes who beat royce..but thats way after every1 had already accepted jiu jiutsu as a superior art and added it to their fighting system.
I. All these BJJ/Gracie ass kissers love to editorialize things (including that narrator). The age, the weight bla, bla, bla. Meanwhile this family has the fame of insulting people in other to get them to fight; a tradition that Helio started when he allowed his students to carry a coffin and to shout in the streets of Sao Paulo, Brazil: "Dead japanese judoka Kato is in this coffin. He got killed by Helio." Kato have fought Helio tow days before and in lost in a competitive match.
II. And Kato probably lost because of wasting time and energy throwing Helio for 10 minutes against a soft mat. He was too tired for both: resist and apply a choke. Later on Sensei Kimura accepted Helio’s challenge. In Sensei Kimura’s own words: “When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." It was so funny that I almost burst into laughter. As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me. The gong rang.
III. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi. At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him. While continuing to throw him, I was thinking of a finishing method. I threw him by O-soto-gari again.
IV. As soon as Helio fell, I pinned him by Kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame. I held still for 2 or 3 minutes, and then tried to smother him by belly. Helio shook his head trying to breathe. He could not take it any longer, and tried to push up my body extending his left arm. That moment, I grabbed his left wrist with my right hand, and twisted up his arm. I applied Udegarami.” And we all know how the rest is history. I have read many Kimura’s biographies including his own.
V. And this so called invitation from Sensei Kimura to Helio, is never mentioned. Meanwhile it always appears in every freaking BJJ site. For decades Helio would sustain he didn’t lost since he didn’t tap. It is not till recently that Helio Gracie described his performance of 1951 fight with Kimura as: "like a kid, helpless against Kimura." Well, you were not only fitting a champion sir; you were fitting a Legend. No one before Kimura, no one after.
@Mattixxg Who give ya the kind idea of these people being strict practitioners of one or another art? Helio for example was at least a 3rd Dan in Judo. Sensei Kimura practiced various disciplines besides Judo. Such as Shotokan, with Funakoshi; and Goju-Ryu under So-Nei Chu. He was a Karate-dō instructor, and used to practice with Mas Oyama ( founder of Kyokushinkai Karate). Oyama used to say Kimura was the only person he knew who trained harder than himself.
@Mattixxg II. And who give you the idea he'll be destroyed in a today's MMA if he were to use just Judo? You just don't get it. Kimura is to Judo what Musashi is to Kenjutsu. But if you don't think Judo is "strong enough" in the hand's of Kimura, let me give ya a wake up call. Sensei Kimura used to cause concoctions by simply applying O-soto-Gari . Yup, just by trowing you against the Tatame. That fast and that strong.
@Mattixxg III. So much was the fear of injury, that even high ranking Judo practitioners would ask him to please not to use O-soto-Gari. On the floor he'll probably dislocate your arm (elbow) by masterful applying Ude-Garami or choke you in various forms. Besides, you probably don't know Judo has Atemi-waza; but is just taught to certain students (not used in sportive Judo). Sensei Kimura wasn't a mere Judo practitioner; he was the an embodiment and full force of the spirit of Judo.
@mrkitanai1... Well said! I'm sick of all these uneducated nut hugging Gracie jj fans!
Heilo and his brothers were cocky bragging dicks! So Kimoura made an example outta him by making short work of him & sending him home with a broken arm!
Bah! I don't get it the Gracie's have all been beat several times!
I totally respect there humble younger sons that have taken over today!
But those first Generation guys in there youth were walking around being total "A" holes!
The Gracies always advertise their art as a way for the weak/small to defend against the bigger/stronger. Yet, in this video, they keep mentioning that Helio was 80-lbs lighter, and he would have won if they were the same weight, etc.
Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes fought at 170 lbs. Matt easily won. Ralph Gracie and Takanori Gomi fought at the same weight. Gomi ended it in seconds.
@Garrikpz Yeah that's not a bad analogy actually, even though you were trying to be a funny smart ass. See, the pizza that is made in Chicago or New York is completely different than the Pizza made in Italy. Compare a margherita pizza to a deep-dish Chicago pizza. Both are delicious
BJJ is amazing, not because it was new, but because it was the beginning of the globalization of martial arts. Eventually, this led into mma, and it'll be even bigger, with fighters getting even better.
Great Video , And once again PROVE TO THE WORLD THAT BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU BEGAN HERE IN BRAZIL , from the fight Helio starts hes stile leaving the orthodox Jiu jitsu to creat what is today
What ALLLLLL THE WORLD MMA LEARNING from GRACIE Family Legacy
And those POST STUPID THINGS :You should learn something and improve it on the same scale as HELIO GRACIE did.
BJJ show to the world that we can defeat any other martial arts in minuts. WRESTLINGS Now ADDING BJJ in they training camps ...LOL
The Gracies are the biggest liars and hypocrits in martial arts. Kimura proved his dominance and skill of Judo over the weaker, less talented Helio Gracie. Long Live Judo. Long live Kimura.
@Machampion100 yea helio does contredict himself by saying that if he was the same weight class he would have won. but Judo i do not think is better then BJJ, remeber that BJJ was created from judo just like judo was created from traditonal jujitsu. Judo was made to improve traditonal jujitsu just like gracie jujitsu was made to fix some of the problems in judo. i beleive that BJJ will win this war and keep on improving as time moves on and other martial arts will be sprung off BJJ.
@61Marsh BJJers have this idea that judo is some how flawed when it isnt, they make claims that they "invinted" concepts that have been in Judo for hundreds of years. All BJJ is is resold Newaza Judo. Nothing more than that.
@61Marsh Kimura said if Helio could last three minutes against him then he should be declared the winner. I believe the fight was something ridiculous like 45 minutes...... I love judo, and I have respect for BJJ. Fighters are fighters period! Helio lost Period! Judo, Sambo, BJJ, are all a combination of a couple different forms of Ju Jitsu. BJJ'ers work on your stand up. Judoka work on your newaza! and worldwide judo is much more popular than bjj.
Since helio challenged kimura..he should admit defeat rather thn saying "if he's in the same weight class...he would've won" grappling doesn't depend on weight..search Kimura on Wiki and u'll see tis at the Kimura vs Helio section (When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me.) in the end Kimura broke Helio's left arm, a white towel is thrown and Kimura won by TKO
"If they were in the same weight class, he would have won"
UMMMMMMM shouldn't superior grappling skills surpass size and strength? I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's the philosophy behind any form of grappling. So the same weightclass thing seems like a seriously annoying excuse to me.
@ObviousTrull - only to an extent will superior skill overcome size and strength. eventually law of physics an gravity will prevail. but i agree with you on the shameless excuses. i wouldn't challenge butterbean to a match and say afterward, "if only he wasn't so fat".
@ObviousTrull - You can use the "superior grappling skills" to surpass size and strength IF the opponent is NOT on same skill level as you are. As long as both are on similar skill level, size does matter.
Thats not entirely correct, in Jiujitsu you must learn to connect all your techniques,and execute them with proper timing/form/,and transition.I have faught many good fighters who out weighed me by 125 pounds,or more and who were on the same skill level as me.My strong points in all the matches have always been my strong connection of the techniques,as well as the understanding.
@TheSenzo7 Meaning you probably have superior grappling skills over them?
If I would fight myself, but only the "other me" would have 20 kg of muscle added on him he would probably have the upper hand.
I'm not saying that if you both have black belt the heavy one WILL win. But weight does give you advantage, as long as it's not there to drag you down (extra weight in fat for example).
It's not that I'm not acknowledging that it's that I don't find it all that impressive because of the way they have conducted themselves over the years I don't particularly give a crap how good they may or may not be, they're seriously douchy far to high and mighty. BJJ is useful to be sure but it doesn't detract from the fact that the whole they think they are the end all be all of fighting thing.
dude these stupid commentaries are so completely asinine they talk up minor accomplishments like beating point fighters in a full contact/submission match and completely make excuses and justify shit whenever it didn't go in their favor. Bottom line BJJ especially Gracie BJJ is a brand and they're simply pushing their brand to make money, end of story. A truly good fighter doesn't make excuses or justify losses, they're arrogant pricks and this self nut hugging bullshit needs to stop.
This is an older video. And it explains the validity and usefulness of BJJ. Plus, in ANY arena, size will make a difference. You dont even acknowledge gracie even lasting that long and giving up a ton of weight against an extremely skilled Kimura. How can you simply ingore that?
I have noticed alot of Gracie haters on all these pages. Win or lose it takes a champion to challenge the best in the world. The Gracies have always done this. Royce Gracie put MMA on the map by taking on guys twice his weight class. Olympic wrestlers, World champions of there respected disciplines. Can no one show respect where it is truly due? No you guys would rather dream that you can take these people on yourselfs or that they are not that good. I bet Helio would kick your ass 90 years old
@SativaSmoker85 there's alot of haters for diff reasons bro. folks hate on Rickson because because he rarely fought anyone with a ground game. He said he could easily beat fighters within minutes, but would back out of fighting them. (Sakuraba and Rutten in particular). Royce has haters because early on they hand picked his opponents until he met Sakuraba and of course in their 2nd fight he used roids.
Also there's their claim of inventing and perfect so many techniques that were around for yrs
@panther2552 Ok how about Dan the beast Severan who outwieghed him by oh I dont know a couple of wieght divisions by todays standards. Then there is akebono who is 400+ lbs who got on top of him and still got caught in a kimura. Royce pretty much put MMA on the map with his early ufc victories. Roids please kid keep making shit up you make me laugh. Fact of the matter is that family holds a legacy none of you haters can touch. Not with all the internet trash talk you can muster.
@chiefhinton As i said hand picked. Severn and Akibono had know knowledge of submission game at all. size advantages for sure. but size means nothing if you don't know how to finish. As for making shit up? You realize it's well known and well documented that Royce tested positive for steroids on two samples for his 2nd fight with Sakuraba at the LA Colluseum. He was suspended for the remainder of his fight license by the CSAC and hasn't fought since. Before you talk, know what you're saying.
@Mattixxg over the hill? there's only a 3 year difference between Royce and Saku. Royce was undefeated and 33 years old while Saku was undefeated and 30 years old when they first met. As for Severn. at the time he met Royce he had no submission knowledge what so ever. He improved over the years sure, but when they met it was zero sub knowledge a pure wrestler with rudamentary striking. by your standard he was over the hill too since he's 9 years older than Royce.
@chiefhinton Also on a side note. the Kimura's real name is the double wristlock. Kimura learned the move from Catch wrestling and pro wrestling legend Karl Gotch. who was a training partner of Billy Robinson the Teacher of Kazushi Sakuraba. Gracies like to say Saku and Kimura beat them with Gracie Jiu Jitsu, but it was actually Catch wrestling they were using. aswell as Judo in Kimura's case. Catch is derived from Ancient Greek Pancration a few thousand yerars old.
Um dude... If you think about which "race" was first.. The Europeans were last.. so more likely Jujitsu's origin is probably from India. (Indian->China->Japan)
@OVERCAPITALIZE then wouldn't it be iran, iraq, syria, egypt? the whole fertile crecent area? Not trying to short change the Japanese at all or anyone as far as that point goes. same moves have been developed in different cultures through the centuries. I'm just pointing out there's more than jiu jitsu obviously. the sub here was taught to Kimura by Catch Wrestlers. It has a right to be acknowledged every bit as much as Jiu Jitsu.. or even Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
@OVERCAPITALIZE then wouldn't it be iran, iraq, syria, egypt? the whole fertile crecent area? Not trying to short change the Japanese at all or anyone as far as that point goes. same moves have been developed in different cultures through the centuries. I'm just pointing out there's more than jiu jitsu obviously. the sub here was taught to Kimura by Catch Wrestlers. It has a right to be acknowledged every bit as much as Jiu Jitsu.. or even Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
Where exactly did you hear about Kimura learning this lock from catch? I like to know, cause all we know is he did judo first before he did anything else.
@OVERCAPITALIZE yes he was a judo player before Catch. He started training in Catch when he became a pro wrestler with Rikidozan in the 50s working with Gotch. it's pretty well documented just do a search on Masahiko Kimura and Karl Gotch. Also you'll see it discussed in a few Billy Robinson interviews here on youtube.com
These guys are idiots. The Gracies have not ducked anyone. They compete at Abu Dhabi Championships. They enter MMA sporting events. There's all over of their fights. People are just idiots looking for some reason to hate on them. These guys may lose fights, but they are well respected all over the world. These internet black belts talk so much, but no one care to know who they are.
Yeah he did do roids..but royce was way past his prime. Yea, that sucks, but when royce was destroying people, it was his skills. SImple and up. Alot of dumbass people dont know that he did roids when he was over the hill.
For your information Helio Gracie only modified the techniques that originally came from traditional japanese jujitsu in order to be sucessfully useful in a real defense situation by a smaller fighter againsted a larger one.Again, Judo is a branch of classical Koryu Japanese Jujitsu,which many people with limited knowledge may not even know.Well,now I will give this knowledge to you so you can actually know what your talking about.
@TheSenzo7 Thus i added the word CLAIM. The techniques have been around for centuries before the Gracies learned it. However many of the Gracie's during interviews claim it as though their family invented them. You haven't told me anything i don't know. just reinforced my statement.
I merely gave some reasons for many of the Gracie Haters. Outside of Rickson's trash talk and Royce roiding up for the 2nd Sakuraba fight, I've actually been a fan of theirs.
I love Brazilian JiuJItsu. I have had my own school with two Brazilians. With these two guys and other experiences with other Brazilians all I can say is they are very bad sports. Always looking for excuses and lying is just part of who they are. We were going to close the School due to their bad behavior. The School now has a Japanese BJJ instructor - NOT ONE PROBLEM!
I actually gave up BJJ for some time because of this.
Lol..sakuraba, hughes..shit win or loose, they didnt duck anyone. Thats balls. And NO one is completely undefeated no matter the Art. And you quoted, "Im smarter than you?".
Thank you man. That's what I've been trying to explain to people. Unlike so many people the Gracies are always testing their art, skills, and themselves. It's because of these matches that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is where it's at now. Helio took a beaten, but he learned from it and added everything to his system. Kimura didn't expect Helio to go 3 minutes with him.
YOURE the one talking about challenging people. Youve made several threats which you WONT fulfill. Like slapping the gracies around. Does your dumbass even know what an ethug is??
You WONT go to the graicie academy and do shit. Youre all talk. Period.
Used in times of war to kill people?? LOL....dude...ive been to Afghanistan and iraq and trust me, theres none of that bullshit there dumbass..i cant even believe you said that!
As far as the gracie challenge...im in SoCal, and the Academy is north. I still think they do the challenge. Instead of you being anynymous and hiding, why dont YOU go and challenge them.
Youre nothing more than a keyboard warrior..an e-thug. You are ALL talk.
kimura choked helio out in the first 2 minutes but helio didnt tap out so kimura thought it didnt work and switched to the kimura. Basically kimura did win
I do not know who you are, but I am Brazilian and want to prove Jiu Jitsu can combine a fight and you can dictate the rules if you want, so you take the test if our jiu jitsu is supreme or not!
Kimura was a true judo sportist with a better technics and won. Simple. The Gracie family have to admit this and many other situations and this is very difficult because this family don't see this like a sport.
lillykas 1 day ago
gracie brought a coffin to the ring for kimura, and padded the mat heavy so he wouldn't be knocked out by the throws from kimura, hilio gracie is a great fighter but he was no match to the great kimura who not only broke hilio's bones he also defeated v. santana who has defeated hilio 3 times, common people, you can't deny victory to the victor, hello!
sprdvr 2 days ago
I love BJJ to death but some of the Gracie's have this arrogance about them that just rubs me the wrong way. They always have some kind of excuse for every time they're beat. That to me is a very unbecoming trait for any one who trains in martial arts. They show know humbleness or humility at times, though sometimes this isn't the case. No disrespect to the family but i think you can all agree if you were to see some of the ridiculous things they have said or claimed.
megaman349 1 week ago 11
I love bjj and judo..but BJJ is much more effective..
SabonninFilms 1 week ago
he declined to go and teach in japan? lol what a cunt :P
ab3k1nz 2 weeks ago
240p we meet again
kamotecake69 2 weeks ago
MITO!
euridovideoXD 3 weeks ago
ive seen smaller fighters overtake a larger fighter its called skill and helio is the one who called out kimura. not the other way around. thats why helio went to japan to try to show off his BJJ. thinking he even had a chance shows you how foolish pride gets you beat down.
alexgattas 3 weeks ago
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MrGreekthai 3 weeks ago
@MrGreekthai really buddy everyone know he didn't invent the moves.. but he cherrypick 22 move give or take a few and there variations from hundreds of moves from Jiu-Jitsu and called it BJJ 10secs is what it took kimura to Ippon helio, why??? no standup defens that would have been end of round 1 and a win in judo but the fight continued till kimura was forced to break helios arm. look whos narrating helios son making excuses for his father slandering the japanese honor
alexgattas 3 weeks ago
@alexgattas That is what you judo fans don't understand ! BJJ is a different thing from judo that's why he was on his back there he felt stronger , it's like you say that they stole the moves , the art can't be stolen whether it is drawing,music etc,or martial arts ! If it is like that all moves were stolen from the pankration which was arguably the first martial art invented,and then boxing why kick boxing was invented?The punches are from the boxing style ohh they stole the punches u r right !
MrGreekthai 3 weeks ago
@MrGreekthai No it isn't, Maeda was a kodokan judoka, nothing about BJJ is brazilian or invented by the gracies, all they did was focus more on newaza, thats all - the reason kano focused less on newaza was because if you are thrown to the ground in real life with force - you don't need to submit, you won't get up. Kickboxing was developed from karate not boxing. BJJ is more sport orientated, whereas Judo is better for self-defense on the street, fights don't start on your back.
MUEEN007 3 weeks ago
@MUEEN007 u should've known by now .. that every fight ENDS up on the ground..
im a traditional ju jitsu practitioner. and also about judo and self defense things thats crap :) . judo is also sport oriented so it doesnt fit good on the street like the traditional jiu jitsu wheres THE ONLY martial art where u train without no rules (JUDO HAS RULES, BJJ HAS RULES) and u train with 2 3 4 5 oponnents :). so sport guys gonna count points on the street? haha
sk8sk8sk8sk8sks8 3 weeks ago
@sk8sk8sk8sk8sks8 I agree that in a street fight there are no rules which is why I'd stab someone if I had to. samurai used Ju Jitsu in battle it was proven and affective. But that wouldn't make for a good sport : ) well maybe..I count points in a street fight knock out points. I give myself a point for every person I knock out its fun you should try it.also i've use UchI Mata in a street fight and the guy i was fight wished I hadn't the guys elbow was shattered from trying to catch himself : )
alexgattas 3 weeks ago
@MrGreekthai This commentary is crazy and he was on his back because he was playing defense the entire time.
Watching this video clearly shows Kimura was easily dominating Helio. Not because of weight or strength.
BlackShinobiShozoku 3 weeks ago
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@MrGreekthai This commentary is crazy and he was on his back because he was playing defense the entire time.
Watching this video clearly shows Kimura was easily dominating Helio. Not because of weight or strength.
BlackShinobiShozoku 3 weeks ago
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@MrGreekthai This commentary is crazy and he was on his back because he was playing defense the entire time.
Watching this video clearly shows Kimura was easily dominating Helio. Not because of weight or strength.
BlackShinobiShozoku 3 weeks ago
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alexgattas 3 weeks ago
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@MrGreekthai have fun playing on your back! by the thanks for reminding me to play battlefield 3 its been a while and i haven't ipponed.. i mean pawned. hope to see BJJ in the olympics soon. i wonder how you get gold in BJJ maybe most time spent on your back could win the gold what do you think.
alexgattas 3 weeks ago
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MrGreekthai 3 weeks ago
Gracies demonstrated this to the world. Kimura was good. But the Gracies challenged everyone, not just those in the same style.
Lordofthenipplerings 4 weeks ago
Demais! Mestre!
adrianmarchi1 1 month ago
I'm quite shocked at the comments I'm reading in this, especially from some of the so called Judokas, I've been practicing Judo since I was 5 years and I'm currently a Yondan at the Shobukan Dojo, in addition to this I'm currently a blue belt in BJJ and while I do agree that many of the techniques that the Gracies use were born out of Judo the same can be said for Judo which was born out of Traditional Jiujitsu. Judo and BJJ have more commonalities than differences.
DarkHadouXS 1 month ago
helio looks like borat :D
bizonmaciej 1 month ago
BJJ it's a lie..... there are only one jj... is the japanesse...... helio gracie did not invent anything...
nicopepaldo1 1 month ago
@nicopepaldo1 You are forgetting Helio modified it to fit his small and thin body so he could apply it on bigger guys and all the trials and errors he went through
parks2000 1 month ago
@nicopepaldo1 sorry but you're wrong, BJJ is far from a lie, traditional jj is quite different from today's BJJ, just as today's judo is pretty different from traditional judo. BJJ vastly expanded the technical aspects of ground fighting. Every martial art today can be traced back to something so I agree it's hard for someone to say they "invented" a move but there's no denying the Gracies greatly improved the ground fighting aspect of jj.
DarkHadouXS 1 month ago
I don't see the 80 lbs difference. You must be a little pussy that jacks off every time it hears the mane Gracie. Of course Kimura was bigger but not by that much. Plus, Gracie did not inted to win the fight? My foot! The guy even had a coffen at the gym saying it was for Kimura.
Kimura outclassed him and beat him up. Helio may have been brave by not taping out, but still he got his butt kicked. Period
PabloMGP 1 month ago
Kimura won at 13 minutes - breaking Helio's arm in two seperate places - and NEVER tapped out - his brother Carlos threw in the towel -
MagiiCde416 1 month ago
NEWSFLASH!: JUDO COMES FROM JIU-JITSU! It's interesting how judo guys like to point out that the Gracie's learned from judo guys but totally ignore the fact that Kano studied jiu-jitsu. It's just a name. Judo is Kano's brand of jiu-jitsu. It's even call Kano jiu-jitsu in many writings I have seen. Kano had his unique philosophy and training methods. Helio had a philosophy, training and teaching method all his own. All built around the idea that some big guy is going to try and smash your face.
kahan01 1 month ago 2
@kahan01 Yep, Kano didn't even invent the term Judo as it was used before. He considered Judo just a subset of Jiu Jitsu.
BandakaKush 1 month ago
@kahan01 Much agreed my friend, I'm quite shocked that many Judokas are so unaware of the art's history, which is sad as I'm a practitioner of both arts. People seem to be so enamored with trying to argue the two arts are different and which one is better when in reality they both have quite a bit in common and come from the same source.
DarkHadouXS 1 month ago
@kahan01 everyone who studies judo know where it came from. but you can't take 22 moves and their variations from hundreds and still call it jiu-jitsu even if you add brazilian to it and call it a style BJJ is streamlined has many gaps, fights don't start from the flat of your back unless your fighting your wife in bed. there's very little standup to BJJ and thats where judo is more rounded. judokas also know how to roll leg locks were taken out of judo for sporting aspects to minimis injurys
alexgattas 3 weeks ago
@alexgattas BEST COMMENT RIGHT HERE
sk8sk8sk8sk8sks8 3 weeks ago
WHO IS THE WINNER?
88sorcio 1 month ago
No one knows exactly why Maeda called it Jiu-Jitsu instead of Judo. Many think it's because the Kodokan expelled him for fighting for money, which is against Kodokan rules.
hondaciviccoupe10 1 month ago
There's really no difference between BJJ and pre-1925 Judo. Jigoro Kano's passion was throws. He never really cared much for ground fighting, so in '25, he set new rules limiting the time spent on the ground. What made it worse was when Kano's dream of Judo becoming an Olympic sport was realized. Further deteriorating Judo's ground fighting. The Gracies learned pre-1925 Judo from Maeda.
hondaciviccoupe10 1 month ago
A destreza de Kimura é admirável e inconteste. Alegar força bruta ou qualquer outro subterfúgio para a sua vitória, é grave erro de julgamento. O judoísta japonês era altamente técnico e objetivo na execução de seus golpes e isso fica evidente no vídeo. Aliás, aos que se fiam no argumento da "grosseria" de Kimura, peço que, com base nas imagens acima, apontem, em qual momento da luta, este se valeu de alguma brutalidade para derrotar a Hélio Gracie.
luiz1000 1 month ago
@luiz1000 nessa epoca no japão o treinamento de judo se tinha muito treinamento de chão tbém, hj em dia e quase nda pq foca o hipon e não a finalização no chão.ou seja focado em olympiadas fazer oq ne
adrianodemori 1 month ago
A diferença não é de 40 kg como disseram os Gracies..é só ver o tamanho dos 2 que a diferença de peso é pequena..mas existe uma grande diferença na habilidade dos 2.
ObservadorNippon 1 month ago
i dont agree with that : " The idea of judo came for hiding the ancient JJ techniqes" bulshit
bask01chn1 2 months ago
Does he say 8, 18 or 80 lbs weight difference? 80 is definitely not true.
YesWeCain8 2 months ago
built upon it therefore creating a new system as well as improving the old. regardless of each individuals personal opinion, BJJ and Judo are both amazing systems and will continue to build off each other.
NDNguitarguy 2 months ago
G system and
NDNguitarguy 2 months ago
The only real difference is-
Judo-more focus on takedowns, very strong traditional influence, mostly focuses on gi
Brazilian jiu jitsu- more focus on submissions and grappling, has increasingly modern influence and style, many gi and no gi schools
Although bjj may have modernized traditional judo, the core principals remain the same. Both disciplines are constantly evolving and continue to influence each other. The gracies did not invent anything new but rather they took a previously existin
NDNguitarguy 2 months ago 18
fact is fact kimura weighed more than him
Raffael900me 2 months ago
@Raffael900me Yeah, but he got toyed with like a little child.
YesWeCain8 2 months ago
all i really know is that brazilian jiu jitsu sounds cooler
puzzypirate 2 months ago
Helio = One of the World Geatest Martial Artist.
Kimura = One of the Worlds Greatest Martial Artist.
Rorion = Pinocchio
samson123450 2 months ago
80 lbs? Kimura weighed 180lbs and was 5'6. Rorion makes up this big story of the massive weight difference that did not exist. Helio was also not as small and frail as Rorion try's to get everyone to believe. Makes for good marketing but it hardly makes it true. If there was a 20-30 lb difference that was about it. Just look at the video, Neither man is that big and the difference is minimal.
samson123450 2 months ago
I think the Gracie's need a image makeover big time, drop the tweaked history bit, the superior-art bit, the street-proven schtick. They are amazing teachers and have a incredibly complete martial art (diet, hygiene, morals, ranking, ect), THAT should be there bragging point
lsloewen2 2 months ago
80 pounds isnt a weight difference? then i wanna see u in the ufc fighting som1 80 pounds heavier than u
Raffael900me 2 months ago
fact is helio gracie > kimura fatass
Raffael900me 2 months ago
@Raffael900me thats why kimura won this fight..?
mirrorseye 2 months ago
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TrollWorks 2 months ago
BJJ Rules !
Estudiosbulldog 2 months ago
This fight only lasted 13 minutes. and the first 10 minutes of this fight were staged. The Brazilian council asked Kimura to stall the match so he would not humiliate Helio infront of the public. This is writen about in detail in Kimura's book "My Judo" also Maeda wrote about it in one of his own books as well. The Gracie's are nothing but liars and scam artists.
Machampion100 2 months ago
helio couldnt cut it as a judoka so he branched off and started his water'd down version of jodo's ground game.. broken arm... nuff said
Iightbreaker 2 months ago
There are no "ancient techniques" of Judo. Spend a few years at any Judo club in the world and you'll learn Judo. It's that simple. It's not like there are 9th and 10th dans out there with secrets on scrolls. The Gracies are full of crap. Helio lost because Kimura was a better martial artist. Don't challenge someone if you're going to whine about the weight and age difference afterwards.
1ikwid 2 months ago
@1ikwid That's not necessarily true. They may not be ancient by pure definition, but they are ancient Jujitsu techniques which is what Judo came from. Judo is not that simple to learn. If it were, I'd be a shodan by now. There are definitely old "secrets" shared only with trusted people. Just ask any American who tries to train with old Japanese. They're "Unofficial" scrolls lol. But I do agree about the Gracies. The better fighter will win.
noose357 2 months ago
i love hickson, but he's so whiny in this vid i muted the sound just to watch Kimura's incredible control
moronsgetout 2 months ago
@moronsgetout scuse me "Rickson"
moronsgetout 2 months ago
1-Gracie bullshit, Kimura = Judo fighter.
2-There were no "tremendous' weight diferrence.
3- Hélio pulled the Challange.
4- Hélio expected to win.
5- Hélio got beaten.
6-Gracie paddled the floor.
7- Kimura Judos takedown were not enought due to the paddle floor.
8-Kimura Broke Hélios arms.
9-I played basketeball with ledron james once, lost, but after 20 minutos of game i came to the conclusion that if i were the weight as him i would have won.
pkjdm 2 months ago
@pkjdm
And yet no one gives a shit about judo really in mma. BJJ+Muay Thai+wrestling=Dominance.
Mattixxg 2 months ago
@Mattixxg
your opinion = bullshit
mikey4u1984 2 months ago
@mikey4u1984
Kimura = Irrelevant.
Mattixxg 2 months ago
@Mattixxg Jon Jones utilizes judo moves, i guess Jon Jones is garbage?
YesWeCain8 2 months ago
@YesWeCain8
Not garbage, but not god either. And Jones isnt kimura..hell..if JBJ fought Kimura, kimura would get his ass beat. Plain and simple.
Mattixxg 2 months ago
@Mattixxg Jon Jones would manhandle Helio Gracie also, i dont get your point.
YesWeCain8 2 months ago
@YesWeCain8 If you think that Jon Jones would beat Helio Gracie in his prime you are on crack. Gracie was not fighting in timed rounds with a referee there to stand you up. It would have gone to the ground and stayed there for however long it took Helio to win. He once fought a guy that had a 100 pound weight advantage for 3 hours before choking him out. Jon Jones is just a striker with a flash game but in a real fight with no rounds and no referee a good grappler would take him.
brianspost75 1 month ago
@brianspost75 Helio grappled non-submission guys with no knowlegde of jiujitsu, and managed to beat them? Wow, that's incredible. I respect Gracies for inventing bjj, but it still doesnt make them stronger nor tougher than other guys.
YesWeCain8 1 month ago
@brianspost75 Jones is a former wrestler. His ground game is good and, his throws are good as well.
MrPotatoesLatkie 1 week ago
@YesWeCain8 HAHAHAHA!! I don't why found this so funny but I was on the floor for a solid minute with this image in my head!
DarkHadouXS 1 month ago
@Mattixxg Judo throws are becoming more and, more common in MMA.
MrPotatoesLatkie 1 week ago
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Kimura broke Gracie's arm he got our broken arm
why not thrown in the towel before breaking the arm of the helio
homen123456 2 months ago
Kimura broke Gracie's arm he got our broken arm
why not thrown in the towel before breaking the arm of the helium
homen123456 2 months ago
Why doesn't anyone ever mention that Judo and BJJ are both derived from Japanese JuJitsu, which in turn has it's origins in ancient India. Get off your soapboxes and train anything, and everything, bunch of crybabies.
lazsoliz 3 months ago
@lazsoliz wtf lol india? you trippin man. please dont tell me that you're basing this off of yoga HAHA
ShuyuKoukin 2 months ago
lol jeez Helio got his ass whooped.
mike2finch 3 months ago
I learn from any guy with something to teach
Torakiwhite 3 months ago
I don't get why BJJ and Judo people argue with each other. We are like brothers
theguyi26 3 months ago 29
@theguyi26 AMEN BUDDY AMEN!!!!
DarkHadouXS 1 month ago
@theguyi26 brothers fight all the time :)
WNxMercy 1 month ago
@theguyi26 more like father and son. BJJ came from Judo
Nbyond 4 weeks ago
I think that any technique regardless of orgin,that proves useful in the defense of an individuals life should be appretiated.By the way,JUDO originated from traditional Japanese koryu jujitsu,and is also a modified style created by master Jigoro Kano.
TheSenzo7 3 months ago
The spring in the floor used by the Brazilians effectively neutralizes all the throws. I'd like to see if Heilo could have survived those 12 or so o soto garis if it was on pavement.
Judokkaa 3 months ago
Jiujitsu is practiced on the same type of mat system that of a judo system.In the Olympics they compete on mats as well.Theres no spring under the mat/flooring.I for one practice on a canvas tarp with 3 layers of carpet like we did before practitioners became soft......
TheSenzo7 3 months ago
@TheSenzo7 this fight took place on a stage with springs underneath the floor, which had mats on it.
Judokkaa 3 months ago
I was born the day Kimura died. That's not important. I just thought it was interesting.
crashnburn753 3 months ago
@crashnburn753 so do you think you will carry on his legacy or you end it?
SadatBSKK 3 months ago
@SadatBSKK Yes.
crashnburn753 3 months ago
Helio born in October 1913, 1 Helio was 180 cm and 80 kg, 1913, Kimura born in September 10, 1917 (5 ft 7in 170 cm; 85 kg, 187 lb), so 4 years difference and 5 kg difference.
junedi2 3 months ago
"shooshitzu fighter"
I'm sorry, but Maeda was a Judoka all the way. It annoys me that the gracies or BJJ guys in general try to avoid saying Judo when talking about BJJ's roots. Not all, but a lot of them do.
noose357 3 months ago 6
@noose357 judo is fantastic but the rules have changed it for the worse. If judo has stayed true to its roots then there would have been no opportunity for BJJ to grow and develop. Juodkas can't complain because their art lost its way and accepted aesthetics over practicality and application. Unfortunately judo continues to weaken itself through more rule changes
TheGraciefighter101 2 months ago
@TheGraciefight That has nothing to do with Judo being the root of BJJ. Whether people like it or not has nothing to do with a well documented fact. It sounds like you're starting a separate conversation. So to answer that, yes that's true. Silly rules have been and continue to limit Judo.But guess what? The same thing is happening to BJJ.Everything is being driven to be a spectator sport. It's as simple as that and not limited to Judo.
Kenka Judo is rare to find these days,but it's out there.
noose357 2 months ago
Then Carlson gracie destroyed Kimura to avenge Helio's loss!
alanz233 3 months ago
bjj = Basically Japanese Judo
The difference? Kodokan Judo has got awesome tachi-waza techniques as well as ground techniques.
Rayvekj 3 months ago
@Rayvekj
I dont think ive ever seen Judoka doing a triangle choke....or a shit ton other techniques that are in bjj.
Mattixxg 3 months ago
The sankaku Jime (or Triangle choke) is a signiture Judo move. Same goes with the Juji Gatame (the armbar) and the Hadaka Jime (Rear naked choke).
I'm doing both Judo and BJJ and they're pretty much the same. The only difference is the principle.
But the gracies never invented anything new.
MannyGrizzly1 2 months ago
@MannyGrizzly1
Ive never seen a triangle choke in Jiu Jitsu....
Mattixxg 2 months ago
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@MannyGrizzly1 You sir, are not ignorant as the others. Respect.
OVERCAPITALIZE 2 months ago
gotta love how instantly every1 on youtube is a blackbelt -.- helio lost this fight fair and square. but look at all the other fights when gracies started advertising their art mainstream. didnt see a single judoka do much against them. some ppl are mentioning ppl like matt hughes who beat royce..but thats way after every1 had already accepted jiu jiutsu as a superior art and added it to their fighting system.
mspark89 3 months ago
@mspark89
Exactly. Many judokas are probably jealous that BJJ has gotten so much coverage and fame.
I mean...where are the open matches for judoka?
ANd for MMA, judo is not one of the staple martial arts to be successful.
Mattixxg 3 months ago
I. All these BJJ/Gracie ass kissers love to editorialize things (including that narrator). The age, the weight bla, bla, bla. Meanwhile this family has the fame of insulting people in other to get them to fight; a tradition that Helio started when he allowed his students to carry a coffin and to shout in the streets of Sao Paulo, Brazil: "Dead japanese judoka Kato is in this coffin. He got killed by Helio." Kato have fought Helio tow days before and in lost in a competitive match.
Darksido 3 months ago
II. And Kato probably lost because of wasting time and energy throwing Helio for 10 minutes against a soft mat. He was too tired for both: resist and apply a choke. Later on Sensei Kimura accepted Helio’s challenge. In Sensei Kimura’s own words: “When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." It was so funny that I almost burst into laughter. As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me. The gong rang.
Darksido 3 months ago
III. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi. At about 10 minute mark, I threw him by O-soto-gari. I intended to cause a concussion. But since the mat was so soft that it did not have much impact on him. While continuing to throw him, I was thinking of a finishing method. I threw him by O-soto-gari again.
Darksido 3 months ago 2
IV. As soon as Helio fell, I pinned him by Kuzure-kami-shiho-gatame. I held still for 2 or 3 minutes, and then tried to smother him by belly. Helio shook his head trying to breathe. He could not take it any longer, and tried to push up my body extending his left arm. That moment, I grabbed his left wrist with my right hand, and twisted up his arm. I applied Udegarami.” And we all know how the rest is history. I have read many Kimura’s biographies including his own.
Darksido 3 months ago
V. And this so called invitation from Sensei Kimura to Helio, is never mentioned. Meanwhile it always appears in every freaking BJJ site. For decades Helio would sustain he didn’t lost since he didn’t tap. It is not till recently that Helio Gracie described his performance of 1951 fight with Kimura as: "like a kid, helpless against Kimura." Well, you were not only fitting a champion sir; you were fitting a Legend. No one before Kimura, no one after.
Darksido 3 months ago
@Darksido
Dude..you put either one of these guys in todays MMA and theyd get destroyed. Is rare you see a pure bjj guy (Palharres) or Judo guy (?) out there.
Mattixxg 3 months ago
@Mattixxg Who give ya the kind idea of these people being strict practitioners of one or another art? Helio for example was at least a 3rd Dan in Judo. Sensei Kimura practiced various disciplines besides Judo. Such as Shotokan, with Funakoshi; and Goju-Ryu under So-Nei Chu. He was a Karate-dō instructor, and used to practice with Mas Oyama ( founder of Kyokushinkai Karate). Oyama used to say Kimura was the only person he knew who trained harder than himself.
Darksido 3 months ago
@Mattixxg II. And who give you the idea he'll be destroyed in a today's MMA if he were to use just Judo? You just don't get it. Kimura is to Judo what Musashi is to Kenjutsu. But if you don't think Judo is "strong enough" in the hand's of Kimura, let me give ya a wake up call. Sensei Kimura used to cause concoctions by simply applying O-soto-Gari . Yup, just by trowing you against the Tatame. That fast and that strong.
Darksido 3 months ago
@Mattixxg III. So much was the fear of injury, that even high ranking Judo practitioners would ask him to please not to use O-soto-Gari. On the floor he'll probably dislocate your arm (elbow) by masterful applying Ude-Garami or choke you in various forms. Besides, you probably don't know Judo has Atemi-waza; but is just taught to certain students (not used in sportive Judo). Sensei Kimura wasn't a mere Judo practitioner; he was the an embodiment and full force of the spirit of Judo.
Darksido 3 months ago
@mrkitanai1... Well said! I'm sick of all these uneducated nut hugging Gracie jj fans!
Heilo and his brothers were cocky bragging dicks! So Kimoura made an example outta him by making short work of him & sending him home with a broken arm!
Bah! I don't get it the Gracie's have all been beat several times!
I totally respect there humble younger sons that have taken over today!
But those first Generation guys in there youth were walking around being total "A" holes!
skinwolf 3 months ago
The Gracies always advertise their art as a way for the weak/small to defend against the bigger/stronger. Yet, in this video, they keep mentioning that Helio was 80-lbs lighter, and he would have won if they were the same weight, etc.
Royce Gracie and Matt Hughes fought at 170 lbs. Matt easily won. Ralph Gracie and Takanori Gomi fought at the same weight. Gomi ended it in seconds.
mrkitanai1 3 months ago 2
lol what about sakuraba ? Was He 20 pounds heavier too ? Jiu Ji tsu is a sport from Japan. And the japanese just showed they were the Boss.
Helio refused to teach kimura his technique because he's an asshole ..
nadhim69 3 months ago
I think brazilan j ,its like learning how to make pizza and call it American pizza Lol.
Garrikpz 3 months ago
@Garrikpz Yeah that's not a bad analogy actually, even though you were trying to be a funny smart ass. See, the pizza that is made in Chicago or New York is completely different than the Pizza made in Italy. Compare a margherita pizza to a deep-dish Chicago pizza. Both are delicious
BJJ is amazing, not because it was new, but because it was the beginning of the globalization of martial arts. Eventually, this led into mma, and it'll be even bigger, with fighters getting even better.
murdockqotsa 1 month ago
All those moves were already done by catch wrestlers the same style that sakuraba spenk the gracies with .word !!
Garrikpz 3 months ago
Great Video , And once again PROVE TO THE WORLD THAT BRAZILIAN JIU JITSU BEGAN HERE IN BRAZIL , from the fight Helio starts hes stile leaving the orthodox Jiu jitsu to creat what is today
What ALLLLLL THE WORLD MMA LEARNING from GRACIE Family Legacy
And those POST STUPID THINGS :You should learn something and improve it on the same scale as HELIO GRACIE did.
BJJ show to the world that we can defeat any other martial arts in minuts. WRESTLINGS Now ADDING BJJ in they training camps ...LOL
GraceBarra 3 months ago
I have full respect for the gracies but didn't they develop gjj so a smaller less athletic person can beat a much larger and athletic opponent ?
NDNguitarguy 3 months ago
The Gracies are the biggest liars and hypocrits in martial arts. Kimura proved his dominance and skill of Judo over the weaker, less talented Helio Gracie. Long Live Judo. Long live Kimura.
Machampion100 3 months ago
@Machampion100 yea helio does contredict himself by saying that if he was the same weight class he would have won. but Judo i do not think is better then BJJ, remeber that BJJ was created from judo just like judo was created from traditonal jujitsu. Judo was made to improve traditonal jujitsu just like gracie jujitsu was made to fix some of the problems in judo. i beleive that BJJ will win this war and keep on improving as time moves on and other martial arts will be sprung off BJJ.
61Marsh 3 months ago
@61Marsh BJJers have this idea that judo is some how flawed when it isnt, they make claims that they "invinted" concepts that have been in Judo for hundreds of years. All BJJ is is resold Newaza Judo. Nothing more than that.
Machampion100 3 months ago 9
@Machampion100 BJJers rule -.-
GrizzlyWolf12 2 months ago
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@GrizzlyWolf12 only in their own minds.
Machampion100 2 months ago
@Machampion100 mixed martial arts is the best no1 style is better than the other they are just different stop fighting like little faggots
Raffael900me 2 months ago
@61Marsh Kimura said if Helio could last three minutes against him then he should be declared the winner. I believe the fight was something ridiculous like 45 minutes...... I love judo, and I have respect for BJJ. Fighters are fighters period! Helio lost Period! Judo, Sambo, BJJ, are all a combination of a couple different forms of Ju Jitsu. BJJ'ers work on your stand up. Judoka work on your newaza! and worldwide judo is much more popular than bjj.
1swt 2 months ago
Since helio challenged kimura..he should admit defeat rather thn saying "if he's in the same weight class...he would've won" grappling doesn't depend on weight..search Kimura on Wiki and u'll see tis at the Kimura vs Helio section (When I entered the stadium, I found a coffin. I asked what it was. I was told, "This is for Kimura. Helio brought this in." As I approached the ring, raw eggs were thrown at me.) in the end Kimura broke Helio's left arm, a white towel is thrown and Kimura won by TKO
Shunkai92 4 months ago
@Shunkai92 not just Kimura, Sakuraba japanese fighter sent all Grecie family to hospital..he defeated 5 Gracie family member
Freestyleartclub 3 months ago 2
@Freestyleartclub cool~ showed how strong japanese fighters r against the Gracies
Shunkai92 3 months ago
"If they were in the same weight class, he would have won"
UMMMMMMM shouldn't superior grappling skills surpass size and strength? I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that's the philosophy behind any form of grappling. So the same weightclass thing seems like a seriously annoying excuse to me.
ObviousTrull 4 months ago
@ObviousTrull - only to an extent will superior skill overcome size and strength. eventually law of physics an gravity will prevail. but i agree with you on the shameless excuses. i wouldn't challenge butterbean to a match and say afterward, "if only he wasn't so fat".
zweenguyen 4 months ago
@ObviousTrull - You can use the "superior grappling skills" to surpass size and strength IF the opponent is NOT on same skill level as you are. As long as both are on similar skill level, size does matter.
Dyrv1ng 3 months ago
Thats not entirely correct, in Jiujitsu you must learn to connect all your techniques,and execute them with proper timing/form/,and transition.I have faught many good fighters who out weighed me by 125 pounds,or more and who were on the same skill level as me.My strong points in all the matches have always been my strong connection of the techniques,as well as the understanding.
TheSenzo7 3 months ago
@TheSenzo7 Meaning you probably have superior grappling skills over them?
If I would fight myself, but only the "other me" would have 20 kg of muscle added on him he would probably have the upper hand.
I'm not saying that if you both have black belt the heavy one WILL win. But weight does give you advantage, as long as it's not there to drag you down (extra weight in fat for example).
Dyrv1ng 3 months ago
@Mattixxg
It's not that I'm not acknowledging that it's that I don't find it all that impressive because of the way they have conducted themselves over the years I don't particularly give a crap how good they may or may not be, they're seriously douchy far to high and mighty. BJJ is useful to be sure but it doesn't detract from the fact that the whole they think they are the end all be all of fighting thing.
majaimay 4 months ago
Kimura himself considered Gracie to be a 6th degree black belt.
130kali 4 months ago
dude these stupid commentaries are so completely asinine they talk up minor accomplishments like beating point fighters in a full contact/submission match and completely make excuses and justify shit whenever it didn't go in their favor. Bottom line BJJ especially Gracie BJJ is a brand and they're simply pushing their brand to make money, end of story. A truly good fighter doesn't make excuses or justify losses, they're arrogant pricks and this self nut hugging bullshit needs to stop.
majaimay 4 months ago
@majaimay
This is an older video. And it explains the validity and usefulness of BJJ. Plus, in ANY arena, size will make a difference. You dont even acknowledge gracie even lasting that long and giving up a ton of weight against an extremely skilled Kimura. How can you simply ingore that?
Mattixxg 4 months ago
I have noticed alot of Gracie haters on all these pages. Win or lose it takes a champion to challenge the best in the world. The Gracies have always done this. Royce Gracie put MMA on the map by taking on guys twice his weight class. Olympic wrestlers, World champions of there respected disciplines. Can no one show respect where it is truly due? No you guys would rather dream that you can take these people on yourselfs or that they are not that good. I bet Helio would kick your ass 90 years old
SativaSmoker85 4 months ago
@SativaSmoker85 there's alot of haters for diff reasons bro. folks hate on Rickson because because he rarely fought anyone with a ground game. He said he could easily beat fighters within minutes, but would back out of fighting them. (Sakuraba and Rutten in particular). Royce has haters because early on they hand picked his opponents until he met Sakuraba and of course in their 2nd fight he used roids.
Also there's their claim of inventing and perfect so many techniques that were around for yrs
panther2552 4 months ago
@panther2552 Ok how about Dan the beast Severan who outwieghed him by oh I dont know a couple of wieght divisions by todays standards. Then there is akebono who is 400+ lbs who got on top of him and still got caught in a kimura. Royce pretty much put MMA on the map with his early ufc victories. Roids please kid keep making shit up you make me laugh. Fact of the matter is that family holds a legacy none of you haters can touch. Not with all the internet trash talk you can muster.
chiefhinton 4 months ago
@chiefhinton As i said hand picked. Severn and Akibono had know knowledge of submission game at all. size advantages for sure. but size means nothing if you don't know how to finish. As for making shit up? You realize it's well known and well documented that Royce tested positive for steroids on two samples for his 2nd fight with Sakuraba at the LA Colluseum. He was suspended for the remainder of his fight license by the CSAC and hasn't fought since. Before you talk, know what you're saying.
panther2552 4 months ago
@panther2552
Weah we know that. But that was when royce was over the hill dude lol..and id LOVE to see you go against dan severn bjj or no.
As far as no knowledge that was the FUCKING POINT lol. And it was proven. Cant believe that shit went over your head.
Mattixxg 4 months ago
@Mattixxg over the hill? there's only a 3 year difference between Royce and Saku. Royce was undefeated and 33 years old while Saku was undefeated and 30 years old when they first met. As for Severn. at the time he met Royce he had no submission knowledge what so ever. He improved over the years sure, but when they met it was zero sub knowledge a pure wrestler with rudamentary striking. by your standard he was over the hill too since he's 9 years older than Royce.
panther2552 4 months ago
@panther2552
Royce had already left the UFC because of the rule change and the change from "JUST" bjj to being more well rounded.
Mattixxg 4 months ago
@chiefhinton Also on a side note. the Kimura's real name is the double wristlock. Kimura learned the move from Catch wrestling and pro wrestling legend Karl Gotch. who was a training partner of Billy Robinson the Teacher of Kazushi Sakuraba. Gracies like to say Saku and Kimura beat them with Gracie Jiu Jitsu, but it was actually Catch wrestling they were using. aswell as Judo in Kimura's case. Catch is derived from Ancient Greek Pancration a few thousand yerars old.
panther2552 4 months ago
@panther2552
Um dude... If you think about which "race" was first.. The Europeans were last.. so more likely Jujitsu's origin is probably from India. (Indian->China->Japan)
OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago
@OVERCAPITALIZE then wouldn't it be iran, iraq, syria, egypt? the whole fertile crecent area? Not trying to short change the Japanese at all or anyone as far as that point goes. same moves have been developed in different cultures through the centuries. I'm just pointing out there's more than jiu jitsu obviously. the sub here was taught to Kimura by Catch Wrestlers. It has a right to be acknowledged every bit as much as Jiu Jitsu.. or even Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
panther2552 4 months ago
@OVERCAPITALIZE then wouldn't it be iran, iraq, syria, egypt? the whole fertile crecent area? Not trying to short change the Japanese at all or anyone as far as that point goes. same moves have been developed in different cultures through the centuries. I'm just pointing out there's more than jiu jitsu obviously. the sub here was taught to Kimura by Catch Wrestlers. It has a right to be acknowledged every bit as much as Jiu Jitsu.. or even Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
panther2552 4 months ago
@panther2552
Where exactly did you hear about Kimura learning this lock from catch? I like to know, cause all we know is he did judo first before he did anything else.
OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago
@OVERCAPITALIZE yes he was a judo player before Catch. He started training in Catch when he became a pro wrestler with Rikidozan in the 50s working with Gotch. it's pretty well documented just do a search on Masahiko Kimura and Karl Gotch. Also you'll see it discussed in a few Billy Robinson interviews here on youtube.com
panther2552 4 months ago
@panther2552
So basically Kimura used a Judo technique on Helio way before he started learning catch.
OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago
@chiefhinton he did use roids
TheObelix876 4 months ago
@chiefhinton
These guys are idiots. The Gracies have not ducked anyone. They compete at Abu Dhabi Championships. They enter MMA sporting events. There's all over of their fights. People are just idiots looking for some reason to hate on them. These guys may lose fights, but they are well respected all over the world. These internet black belts talk so much, but no one care to know who they are.
130kali 4 months ago
@chiefhinton
Yeah he did do roids..but royce was way past his prime. Yea, that sucks, but when royce was destroying people, it was his skills. SImple and up. Alot of dumbass people dont know that he did roids when he was over the hill.
Mattixxg 4 months ago
For your information Helio Gracie only modified the techniques that originally came from traditional japanese jujitsu in order to be sucessfully useful in a real defense situation by a smaller fighter againsted a larger one.Again, Judo is a branch of classical Koryu Japanese Jujitsu,which many people with limited knowledge may not even know.Well,now I will give this knowledge to you so you can actually know what your talking about.
TheSenzo7 3 months ago
@TheSenzo7 Thus i added the word CLAIM. The techniques have been around for centuries before the Gracies learned it. However many of the Gracie's during interviews claim it as though their family invented them. You haven't told me anything i don't know. just reinforced my statement.
I merely gave some reasons for many of the Gracie Haters. Outside of Rickson's trash talk and Royce roiding up for the 2nd Sakuraba fight, I've actually been a fan of theirs.
panther2552 3 months ago
@SativaSmoker85
Gracies put style vs style on the map..
OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago
I love Brazilian JiuJItsu. I have had my own school with two Brazilians. With these two guys and other experiences with other Brazilians all I can say is they are very bad sports. Always looking for excuses and lying is just part of who they are. We were going to close the School due to their bad behavior. The School now has a Japanese BJJ instructor - NOT ONE PROBLEM!
I actually gave up BJJ for some time because of this.
thefugitive1965 4 months ago
@Sersons
So youre saying theyre ducking people?
Lol..sakuraba, hughes..shit win or loose, they didnt duck anyone. Thats balls. And NO one is completely undefeated no matter the Art. And you quoted, "Im smarter than you?".
Are you, like, 13 years old? lol
Mattixxg 4 months ago
@Mattixxg
Thank you man. That's what I've been trying to explain to people. Unlike so many people the Gracies are always testing their art, skills, and themselves. It's because of these matches that Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is where it's at now. Helio took a beaten, but he learned from it and added everything to his system. Kimura didn't expect Helio to go 3 minutes with him.
130kali 4 months ago
@Sersons
YOURE the one talking about challenging people. Youve made several threats which you WONT fulfill. Like slapping the gracies around. Does your dumbass even know what an ethug is??
You WONT go to the graicie academy and do shit. Youre all talk. Period.
Mattixxg 4 months ago
KIMURA!
tonhodascabra 4 months ago
@Sersons
Used in times of war to kill people?? LOL....dude...ive been to Afghanistan and iraq and trust me, theres none of that bullshit there dumbass..i cant even believe you said that!
As far as the gracie challenge...im in SoCal, and the Academy is north. I still think they do the challenge. Instead of you being anynymous and hiding, why dont YOU go and challenge them.
Youre nothing more than a keyboard warrior..an e-thug. You are ALL talk.
Nothing more. Thats it. Youre full of shit lol
Mattixxg 4 months ago
have you ever rolled with someone 80lbs heavier than you? i assure you lasting 13 minutes is only due to skill.
johnnynodoze 4 months ago
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Helio only lost 2ce in a 45yr period, i think that speaks volumes.
Yeah he lost to Kimura but you have to loose sometime right.
Kimura also out weighed Helio by like 80lbs.
swov5665 4 months ago
Helio only lost 2ce in a 45yr period, i think that speaks volumes.
Yeah he lost to Kimura but you have to loose sometime right.
Kimura also out weighed Helio by like 80lbs.
swov5665 4 months ago
kimura choked helio out in the first 2 minutes but helio didnt tap out so kimura thought it didnt work and switched to the kimura. Basically kimura did win
z3r006 4 months ago
I do not know who you are, but I am Brazilian and want to prove Jiu Jitsu can combine a fight and you can dictate the rules if you want, so you take the test if our jiu jitsu is supreme or not!
RaphaelKriptos 4 months ago
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OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago
@RaphaelKriptos I'll test your brazilian jiu jiutsu in a no rules match. You won't win, bet you that.
OVERCAPITALIZE 4 months ago