blvd home. Kurt cooperatively came out of the room and told the officer that he locked himself in the room to keep away from Courtney & HAD NO INTENTION TO HARM HIMSELF. the police gave Courtney a warning about planting a phony call & because they were on a call about THREAT of suicide they confiscated Kurt's guns!
the SPD did nothing for Cobain - they should of reviewed their own personal records before closing the death of Kurt Cobain - in their own documents they have the proof that something wasn't right between the relationship of Mrs. Harrison-love-Cobain & Kurt Cobain
On March 18th 1994 Courtney Love called the Seattle Police because her husband had locked himself in a room, she also STATED that he was going to kill himself. So the police responded to the call and arrived at the Lake WA...
@blvdofbroken LOL You simply call everything that goes against your theories "lies", which is why you can't have a rational discussion about this subject matter.
@blvdofbroken LOL How is a conversation about Cobain's death not relevant to this video? I stick to the evidence and facts that are verifiable by police records, recorded/videotaped statements, quotes, etc. People like you form the majority of your arguments on conjecture, misinformation and internet rumors, which is why you can't rationally debate me and instead insult me.
Recently I responded to you in this video and one other, so what. Also, I only comment when you comment to me. I see comments by you in many other videos. Is this some kind of decent life for you? At least I'm doing something I believe in. What do you get out of it? You need to get a life.
@judyleasugar97 So you always respond to me when I comment you, that's what :) Point being that if you really "don't care" what I think, then why take the time to try and rebut me?? Your "theories" about Kurt Cobain's life and death often defy logic and/or are factually inaccurate, and they DESERVE to be called out as such. I don't know for certain if Kurt Cobain was murdered or not, but I know that Tom Grant's "murder theory" has a lot of holes in it and deserves 2b questioned as well :)
@blvdofbroken Read the thread, our conversation was entirely relevant to the subject matter, smarty pants :) I disagree with you: Tom Grant hasn't proved his case and the best evidence is in favor of the official verdict.
@judyleasugar97 And yet you responded to me AGAIN! :) C,mon, Judy, you've got comments in these conspiracy vids that go back as far as 3 years!! That's some life ya got there, toots! xoxoxo :)
@judyleasugar97 Do you call having a life spending years and years posting illogical, paranoid rants about kurt being murdered "having a life"? Hinkley (the guy who killed Lennon) believed that he had a life before he shot John. Judy do you consider having a "life" believing that Courtney is threatened by your posts and is hiring people to go on youtube to attack you? Judy you are so caught up with mental illness and your illogical thoughts that you cant figure out anything rational.
Your arguments don't make sense. If the person who leaked the level was after money they'd have gone to a tabloid. Also, larger audience. Quite a bit of legitimate information comes out of tabloids.
You act like I'm really really concerned about what you think. Nobody cares what you think. You haven't indicated any evidence whatsoever that this was cadaveric spasm. A statement by a coroner trying to fend off questions and criticisms by the public about his analysis doesn't count.
@judyleasugar97 LOL, You obviously "care" enough about what I think to respond to everything I post, and your argument of: "Gee, I don't like this cadaveric spasm business because it doesn't fit with Cobain being in a coma so I'm just going to say that Hartshorne lied" is really lame. Statements made by the coroner that performed his autopsy don't count?? He couldn't "lie" about cadaveric spasm for the same reason he couldn't deny the morphine level - the autopsy reports would dispute him. Duh.
@judyleasugar97 JUDY YOUR PARANOID ILLOGICAL VIEWS ARE OBVIOUS WHEN YOU SAID "A STATEMENT BY A CORONER TRYING TO FEND OFF QUESTIONS AND CRITICISMS BY THE PUBLIC DOESNT COUNT". BESIDES KNOWING KURTS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS JUDY KNOWS THE CORONERS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS. IT'S IMPRESSIVE HOW JUDY (WHO NEVER EXAMINED KURTS BODY) KNOWS MORE ABOUT CADAVERIC SPASMS THAN THE CORONER WHO ACTUALLY EXAMINED KURTS BODY. JUDY DO YOU NOT SEE THE PATTERN OF MENTAL ILLNESS PARANOIA THAT RUNS THROUGH YER WORDS
The point also remains that it doesn't make any sense that Hartshorne would lie about the diagnosis of cadaveric spasm. He wasn't the only person to have viewed Kurt's body at the scene - 2 other coroners were present in the greenhouse that day. The presence of conditions like regular rigor mortis and cadaveric spasm are very forensically significant to investigators and would definitely also be part of Cobain's autopsy reports. There is no logical reason to conclude that Hartshorne lied.
The newspaper didn't compensate anyone. And if they were really looking for money they would have approached a tabloid with the information.
The level was leaked. That was enough of an indication someone thought something was fishy. Read Roger Lewis' essay about how the heroin level would have made it impossible for Kurt to have fired that gun.
@judyleasugar97 You really have no way of knowing whether or not the newspaper compensated anyone for that morphine level, is my point. And, if they wanted the story to be believed, they'd know to avoid a tabloid.
I've read Roger Lewis's essay - I've told you that I've read his essay time and time again. I've read Grant's web site, Halperin's book, you name it. It's only fair to ask for another case of a cadaveric spasm diagnosed in a victim that was thought to be in a coma @ the time of death.
@judyleasugar97 Why do you assume that whoever leaked the info was concerned? Maybe they were seeking compensation from the newspaper that printed the story.
Hartshorne was only one of THREE King's County Medical Examiners present at the scene who viewed Kurt's body. If Hartshorne "made up" the condition, other people would know. The force that was required for them to break Cobain's grip of the weapon is a matter of record as well and would be part of the diagnosis in the autopsy reports.
Overrated? An overrated guy who changed the landscape of music and many famous artists cite as an inspiration today? You better check your definitions.
ther was no cospiracy. kurt cobain was a miserable, spoiled and completly overated drug addict. if he had lived he would have become a bloated boring has been the same as krist nova-whatever-his name is.
@judyleasugar97 There is absolutely nothing that suggests that any of the 3 Kings County Medical Examiners that viewed Kurt's body, and determined he killed himself, lied to "cover their asses" about anything. Why would they "make up" a condition, when they could far easier deny a reported morphine level that was suspiciously/unofficially leaked?? If they "made up" this condition, the autopsy reports & crime scene photos would dispute their claims of cadaveric spasm. Your theory makes no sense.
The morphine level is a matter of record, whereas they'd have to have a body to examine to prove cadaveric spasm. Hartshorne was trying to cover his ass.
Kurt's hand was stiff because of rigormortis. Your statement "proves" nothing.
@judyleasugar97 No. For the 3rd time, cadaveric spasm (instantaneous rigor) happens at the moment of death and disappears when regular rigor mortis disappears, some 3-4 days after death (duration of rigor depends largely on atmospheric conditions/temperature). There would be no sign of the condition in a weeks, months, or years old corpse. The autopsy reports and crime scene photographs are visual and written documentation of the condition of Kurt's body as it was discovered, with the spasm.
@judyleasugar97 HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU NEED TO BE TOLD THAT YOU ARE MEDICALLY AND FACTUALLY WRONG ON CADAVERIC SPASMS AND RIGOR MORTIS? JUDY YOU HAVE NOT PASSED THE DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE OF A SPOILED 2 YEAROLD CAUSE WHEN YOUR FACED WITH ACTUAL FACTS YOU STOMP YOUR FEET, START CRYING, AND JUST REPEAT YOUR DISPROVEN IRRATIONAL THOUGHTS. ALL YOU ARE IS A NAIVE, SPOILED, LITTLE GIRL WHO GREW UP IN A PROTECTED BUBBLE AND KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT DRUG ADDICTION OR THE REAL WORLD. U LOOK LIKE A FOOL JUDY
The morphine level was not officially released, it was suspiciously leaked to the media without the consent of the authorities, nor Cobain's family. Hartshorne could have easily denied the blood morphine level, if he had wanted to be duplicitous, and no one would have been the wiser. He didn't. The FACT that Kurt's hand was PRIED from the rifle is further supported by the publicly released police reports. There is no good reason to assume that Hartshorne lied. You are a fucking moron :)
Hartshorne didn't say this till long after the autopsy and only because people were pointing out suspicious facts. He was trying to cover his own ass. There is no proof of cadaveric spasm. No proof now that Courtney has cremated his body making another autopsy impossible.
@judyleasugar97 There is no proof that Hartshorne lied about anything. If he were going to lie, why not just deny the unofficially leaked morphine level?? Even if Cobain's body still existed, you wouldn't find a cadaveric spasm evident in a decomposed corpse. It happens at the point of death, and disappears when regular rigor disappears. The AUTOPSY REPORTS and CRIME SCENE PHOTOS of Kurt's body as it was discovered are all that you'd need to prove or disprove it :)
I'll repeat what I said, that Kurt displayed rigormortis. To prove otherwise you'd have to re-examine his body . . . oh, wait, Courtney made that impossible by cremating him. Hmmm . . .
@judyleasugar97 Instantaneous rigor/cadaveric spasm, according to the medical examiners that preformed his autopsy :) You have not a shred of evidence to suggest that any of the medical examiners lied or intentionally covered anything up :) And you DON'T need his body, dummy, just the autopsy reports, which you would also need to either prove or disprove the unofficially leaked morphine level :)
@judyleasugar97 Misinformation?? It's INFORMATION direct from the mouth of the coroner that performed Cobain's autopsy!! Stop trying to deny something simply because it doesn't fit with your "theories". If Hartshorne diagnosed the condition correctly, then it's sound forensic evidence that Cobain's gunshot wound was self-inflicted, and flies directly in the face of the notion that he was in a coma or deceased when the weapon was discharged.
"With gun suicides, you always still see the victim gripping the barrel of the gun. That's because at the point of death, the hand freezes in place. We literally had to pry that shotgun from Cobain's hands. You could still see the markings in his palms from where he had been gripping it for days. That's a sure sign the wound was self inflicted. That kind of evidence doesn't lie."
@judyleasugar97 "Ordinary rigor does not produce the same firm grip of a weapon" - that's per an acting medical examiner's description of the condition, from Forensic Pathology Online. Cadaveric spasm is rigor of an instantaneously occurring nature, freezing into place muscles (usually the hands) that were contracted in the victim's last act of life. If it were ordinary rigor, the muscles would go into a stage of primary relaxation before rigor onset, and you wouldn't have a firm grip.
@judyleasugar97 From Forensic Pathology Online, by Dr. Dinesh Rao
"No other condition simulates cadaveric spasm and it cannot be produced by any other method after death. Very great force is required to overcome stiffness. It passes without interruption into normal rigor mortis and disappears when normal rigor disappears."
@judyleasugar97 All three officer's reports (Levandowski, Yoshida, Kirkland) describe the weapon being grasped in Kurt's left hand, as does the major investigative report. Hartshorne was one of THREE King's County Medical Examiners that viewed Cobain's body at the scene - if any of them were going to fabricate something to conceal a murder from the public, why not simply deny the unofficially-leaked blood morphine level?? Your theory that they "lied" makes no sense.
@judyleasugar97 lets address your comment that you dont trust the seattle pd. Judy has claimed that the Seattle pd were "prejudiced against addicted punks" and the seattle pd had/has corruption problems. Judy every police department in the usa has/had corruption problems and no police department is perfect investigating/documenting a crime scene, none of that disproves the totality of the documented facts surrounding kurts death.
Kurt's hand showed no signs of cadavericspasm according to people on the scene. Hartshorne made up the medical term because he knew no one could do a further autopsy since Kurt's body was cremated.
@judyleasugar97 The condition was diagnosed on the scene - where are you getting your information from?? Levandowski describes Kurt's left hand being wrapped around the gun barrel and Yoshida/Kirkland describe the weapon being pried from his hand at the scene. The autopsy reports and crime scene photos are all sealed, so Hartshorne's statements and the police reports are all we have to go on. You have zero evidence to back a claim that Hartshorne "lied" about anything.
@judyleasugar97 im going to address kurt being cremated. Fact kurt was very interested in Buddhism and even praticed it on and off. If one were to ascribe any religious beliefs that kurt had right before his death it would be buddhism. Therefore creamating his body after his autopsy is perfectly logical and rational. You keep bringing up his cremation like it was odd burial method that went against kurts beliefs.
There is no proof cadiveric spasm relates to this case. It is an unfounded claim since Kurt's body no longer exists for examination to back up any such theories.
@judyleasugar97 We have the medical examiner that performed Kurt's autopsy, Hartshorne, talking about having diagnosed the condition in Kurt's left hand
"With gun suicides, you always still see the victim gripping the barrel of the gun. That's because at the point of death, the hand freezes in place. We literally had to pry that shotgun from Cobain's hands. You could still see the markings in his palms from where he had been gripping it for days. That's a sure sign the wound was self inflicted."
From "Forensic Pathology Online", by Dr. Dinesh Rao, on cadaveric spasm.
"This condition is of great medico-legal importance. Occasionally, in case of suicide, the weapon, e.g. pistol or knife, is seen firmly grasped in the victim's hand which is a strong presumptive evidence of suicide. Attempts may be made to simulate this condition to conceal a murder, but ordinary rigor does not produce the same firm grip of a weapon."
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
LMAO :) The trolls have only like 40 dislikes and we have over 550 likes for this REALITY. I can only imagine what kind of pathetic trolls have came to this murder case pissing "suicide" out of their little media pimped mouths. Dave Grohl and that lumberjack dork who hit himself in the head with his bass at the MTV awards are COAT TAILERS who are still too gutless to admit what really happened. No wonder Kurt was dumping their sorry asses and leaving the superificial celebrity scene !
Everyone who gets a restraining order has one thing in common: they are afraid of the person they are getting an order against. It illustrates that Courtney is a dangerous person.
A case in point: she stabbed a girl when she was in school. She tried to murder her first husband by setting the bed on fire while he slept. She is violent and unpredictable.
@profaneoneohone PLEASE REPEAT THIS COMMENT 10X TO YOURSELF. THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY PEOPLE GET RESTRAINING ORDERS. THERE IS NOT JUST ONE UMBRELLA REASON FOR IT. BESIDES WHAT DOES THE SITUATION BETWEEN FRANCES AND COURTNEY HAVE TO DO WITH KURT KILLING HIMSELF? JUST USING BASIC LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE IN COMPARING YOUR PARANOID THEORY OF KURTS DEATH TO THE ONE FROM THE POLICE, SHOWS HOW RIDICULOUS YOU APPEAR.
At the risk of repeating myself for those too mentally impaired to get it, Kurt didn't kill himself. The restraining order proves Courtney is dangerous.
@profaneoneohone NOW you are just acting like a whining little baby girl. You cant even provide logic or use facts to support your irrational, paranoid claims, so you just make ignorant statements. Start shooting heroin and maybe you'll be able to figure out what addiction does to a person mentally and how heroin addiction effects a persons life. You like judy live in a protective bubble, with no knowledge of how the outside world works.
@profaneoneohone i've crushed all of your paranoid theories on kurts "murder" on here and all you have shown is that you are an immature, little girl, who belongs in a mall, listening to my chemical romance cd's.
@EdinAmmar actually MCR has turned everthing around, and gerard way is an insane performer. this coming from somebody who hated MCR until their newer stuff came out.. at least they arent like nirvana who ruined music
@fucia11 you know nothing about music history and have terrible taste in music. Obviously you are a child and have no clue what the music scene was like before nirvana broke. You really should be ashamed of your ignorance and immaturity towards music.
Look at his signature? Look at Kurts handwriting in journals man... In his plain mind hed say the journals were forged too.
Do conspiracists realize that not a single expert outside the investigation has ever seen the suicide note? Do they realize handwriting analysis isnt a science? Isnt reliable?
If you want to believe this technique is reliable believe what the only expert who analysed the note says, and not people who looked at a bad xerox. My 2 cents.
Handwriting analysis isn't reliable,it's a pseudo-science. I'm saying that people who believe in this analysis should be smart and trust what the only person who ever analysed the note says. The person I'm talking about works for the wa state patrol and determined Kurt wrote the note.
Richard Lee is jumping on the bandwagon of "the note was forged".He isn't an expert, and if he were itd be irrelevant since the real note is needed to see the beginning and end of the trace.
No one said anything about Kurt's "thoughts and feelings." We were talking about the reasons for restraining orders, specifically in relation to Frances and the family. Are you high or something?
@profaneoneohone when will you seek help? When will you get over this massive hate for courtney and stop portraying kurt as some weak, naive, submissive, gullible, person and understand that everything kurt did he willingly choose to do and that NO ONE made kurt do anything he didnt want to do. You know nothing about addiction and all of your consipracy theories on his "murder" show how ignorant, and detached you are from rational logical thought. seek help get on medication.
Sure, change guardianship, but why the restraining order? She was afraid of Courtney. People don't bother to get a restraining order unless they are afraid of someone.
@profaneoneohone yet again you are assuming and talking like you personally know the lives/thoughts of the cobain family. You dont know them and you dont know their thoughts and feelings. Please focus on your miserable, ignorant life and stop pretending you know what kurt and his family thinks and feels. You have serious mental issues. Nothing you've said is logical (kurt was clean, courtney tried to kill kurt in rome, courtney bribed the police,da, and corner). You are mentally ill.
@profaneoneohone what you are doing regarding frances wanting a restraining order and the reasons behind it is speculation. You are talking about a personal family matter that is none of your business and by assuming frances is scared or in fear of courtney you are talking as if you personally know her thoughts and feelings.
I already answered you. You seem to forget the comments were made many years ago. What have these people said lately? That was my point. Frances filed a restraining order. She is clearly afraid of her own mother.
@profaneoneohone frances restraining order had nothing to do with "fearing" courtney. Courtney was on drugs and not mentaly stable to take care of frances, thats the reason behind the restraining order and her wanting to be emancipated.
@profaneoneohone in your paranoid screwed up world the "cobain" family needs to release monthly, weekly, or yearly, press releases updating how they feel about kurts death??? His family made public comments regarding his death years ago and nothing regarding the circumstances of Kurts death has changed. Get over your obession with courtney. You are so blinded with hate for courtney that you fail to use common logical sense on kurts death. seek help.
Tom Grant is not "exploiting" Kurt. Whatever he gets for the manuals goes to costs investigating the case. Something Kurt would have been in favor of, pursuing justice.
You apparently don't know the meaning of censorship.
@profaneoneohone YOU DONT KNOW KURT AND KURT WAS A PRIVATE PERSON, WHO DIDNT WANT ANYONE (MEDIA, OR PRIVATE INVESTGATOR) BUGGING HIS FAMILY. KURT WOULD HATE YOU AND ANY OTHER PARASITE THAT IS GIVING MONEY TO THESE LEECHES WHO ARE PROFITING OFF OF HIS DEATH. YOU HAVE YET TO BRING UP OR MENTION ANYTHING REGARDING KURTS LIFE THAT IS LOGICAL AND SANE.
"Due to our slumping economy, we have decided to temporarily lower the cost of the Cobain Case Study Manual and Audio CD package by nearly 20%. NOW FOR ONLY $36.00!".
A PI goes to a house that cost more than 1 million dollars, and there's a conspiracy in his brain that doesn't allow him to think there must be a garage and a backyard. Great headline.
Maybe because the person showing him through the house had been assigned to show him the entire property. Why didn't they? You people keep going back to this insignificant point, as if it makes him a bad detective. I don't see how, when much the important evidence in the case was acquired by Grant. That is more of an indication of his ability as a detective.
@profaneoneohone first Grant has had numerous ethical charges filed against him. Fact, a good pi doesnt need someone to escort them around a property, they wouldnt need someone to show them a greenhouse above a garage. Most of grants "evidence" was collected by unreliable sources that at best where 2nd hand witnesses to the events that happened in kurts life. You have proven time and time again to know nothing about addiction and have no logical, common sense.
@profaneoneohone look at the 9/11 investigation. There is video of planes going into the wtc and the investigation into the collpase of the wtc is pretty cut and dry. Yet there are irrational, conspiracy, wackos like yourself, who have concocted a conspiracy that the govt blew up those building. Like yourself, those people rely on loop holes and errors to spin a irrational story and even rely on their own "specialist" to back their paranoid views. YOu are no better than those 9/11 conspiracy
I'm still wondering why Grant didn't bother searching the garage. It was there and he skipped it. Had he gone to the garage hed have found the stairs to the room above.
Expecting a junkie to do an exhaustive search is pretty stupid. Not my fault if Grant didnt realize a house that cost more than a million dollars had a garage, a backyard, etc.
Have u seen the toxicology reports?Then all you do is speculate about lethal doses for non druggies. Why don't you read all the leaked documents and make up a conspiracy based on that.Itd be more reliable than basing all your theories n what a PI who didnt find the corpse of the person he was hired to find believes.
To offer money to a policeman you first have to know that person is corrupt. Do you really think Courtney had that many contacts in a city she hardly lived in?Detective Martinez+...
@floppingnoni: You still haven't answered the question: Why didn't the person leading Grant through the house show him the greenhouse? What did the people in the house have to hide?
Courtney was actually working with people in the Seattle pd as a snitch to get drug dealers. She stupidly admitted that.
@profaneoneohone YOU ARE A CLUELESS IDIOT. FACT, GRANT IS THE PROFESSIONAL PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR AND HE SHOULDNT REQUIRE ANYONE TO SHOW HIM THE GREENHOUSE INORDER TO DO A PROPER INSPECTION OF KURTS PROPERTY. THE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE HAD NOTHING TO HIDE OR THEY WOULDNT HAVE SHOWN GRANT AROUND THE HOUSE. ALL YOU ARE DOING IS LOOKING FOR LOOPHOLES WHILE FORGETTING THAT YOUR EXPLANATION OF KURTS DEATH IS ILLOGICAL.
The fact remains no one could fire a gun with a 3 times lethal dose of heroin in their system, not to mention the valium. That means someone else fired the gun and that rules out suicide.
I never said she controls the entire Seattle pd. You tend to go to extremes. I do think it's possible that Cameron accepted a bribe, since he was stealing money from crime scenes. And the Seattle pd has a history of corruption. But I was just expressing that possibility.
Even if it was merely the case that it was a very poorly conducted investigation, you should consider that police stick together. They are a very stubborn bunch and will never admit it when they've been wrong.
@profaneoneohone CAN YOU NAME ME ONE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN A MAJOR US CITY THAT DOESNT HAVE A HISTORY OF CORRPUTION OR BAD COPS? THE HISTORY OF CORRUPTION OR THAT DETECTIVE WHO STOLE MONEY FROM CRIME SECENES DOESNT NEGATE THE FACTS SURROUNDING KURTS DEATH OR THE TIMELINE OF EVENTS LEADING UP TO KURTS DEATH. NO POLICE INVESTIGATION IS PERFECT WITHOUT MISTAKES. KURTS DEATH WAS AN OPEN AND SHUT CASE. U NEED TO REALIZE THAT KURT WAS A REAL PERSON WITH FLAWS WHO WAS ADDICTED TO DRUGS.
If you don't know when this statement took place you absolutely only read conspiracy sites, and therefor, are brainwashed. One clue: that sites avoid stuff like this because they like to manipulate their readers. Another clue: it was in the 00s.
When have they said these things lately? Maybe 16 years ago. And they could well have been afraid of Courtney, as well as influenced by her gifts of money to them.
@profaneoneohone TELL ME WHAT HAS CHANGED REGARDING KURTS DEATH FROM THE TIME HIS FAMILY MADE THOSE COMMENTS TILL NOW??? NOTHING. DOES KURTS FAMILY HAVE TO RELEASE MONTHLY STATEMENTS STATING KURT KILLED HIMSELF FOR 16 YEARS INORDER FOR YOU THICK HEAD TO UNDERSTAND HE KILLED HIMSELF. IF KURTS FAMILY WAS SO SCARED OF COURTNEY, WHY WOULD THEY BACK FRANCES EMANCIPATION EFFORTS AND ACT AS HER GUARDIAN? THOSE ARENT THE ACTIONS OF A SCARED, INTIMIDATED PERSON/FAMILY.
@profaneoneohone the only psychopath is you who denies reality and gives all these super human powers to courtney who according to you controlled the entire seattle police department, the seattle states attorny office, the seattle corner, and the media. Do you even realize how desperate, paranoid, and mentally insane you sound???
Who cares if Courtney is a ruthless person? You hate the woman so much you forget we are debating what the Cobains think of the murder theories and people who support them. They say:
1. "We all know that Kurt killed himself"
2. People who think Kurt was murdered are "quacks who try to make money by questioning his death"
Courtney profited by Kurt's death in particular. She gained hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm sure it's apparent to the Cobain's she is a very ruthless person.
Your information is wrong. Just more of Courtney's usual tactics to try and divide people. Why haven't the Cobains voiced these opinions themselves in the last years? it's highly likely they're afraid of Courtney. She is connected to 4 mysterious deaths.
@profaneoneohone WOW. HAVE YOU HEARD OF SEVEN DEGREES OF SEPARATION. A FAMOUS PERSON CAN BE CONNECTED TO ALOT OF MYSETERIOUS DEATHS CAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE. KURTS FAMILY IS HARDLY AFRAID OF COURTNEY THEY EVEN TOOK FRANCES SIDE ON GETTING EMANCIPATED AND ACTED AS HER GUARDIAN. THOSE ARE NOT THE ACTIONS OF A PERSON WHO IS AFRAID OF COURTNEY. YOU ARE A SICK PERSON, WHO HAS MASSIVE PARANOIA AND IRRATIONAL THOUGHTS. SEEK HELP, SERIOUSLY.
We all have seen the pics of the time they went to Monte. Kim says that the only reason they were close to Leland was because of Iris.The moment she died the moment they said goodbye to Leland. Iris died in 1997, that year Leland stopped receiving pictures of Frances and phonecalls. Doesn't Leland realize that they were sending stuff to Iris and not to him?
According to the Cobains, the people you support are "quacks who try to make money by questioning Kurt's death".
@floppingnoni thank you for bringing up rational and logical thoughts to this debate. please check out a person named judyleasugar who is constantly on youtube saying almost the identical things that profaneoneohone is saying.
I know about judy, she thinks Im courtney. I've proved her to be wrong too many times and she left me alone (I cross fingers). Sometimes, her soul leaves her body and possesses other youtube users. It's weird because once her soul leaves a user it immediately invades the next. I wonder why...
You know, yesterday Tom Grant replied to one of my comments, just to blame the weather and the seattle police department for their sloppy work in finding Kurt. Pathetic.
@floppingnoni that's funny cause judy accused me of working for courtney love and she actually thinks that courtney love is hiring and paying people to go on youtube and post replies to her comments. What kind of ego does a person have to think that courtney love is threatened or scared of them and is hiring people to go on youtube and post replies to their comments??? Judy is the "grunge" version of a tea party/ repub supporter. Her hate for courtney (obama) has made her illogical
haha judy didnt accuse me directly, but wrote a really serious comment on a users channel stating she was sure i was courtney. She told to another user that i was paying testmeatdollstick. Crazy! I admit that sometimes I enjoy her madness.
Courtney is not a leech? She did not earn any of the hundreds of millions of dollars she got from Kurt's estate. He was about to dump her ass for adultery.
I have copies of photos of Kurt, Courtney and Frances over at Leland's house. When people have kids they generally become closer to their family and that was true with Kurt. He planned to go fishing with his grandfather shortly before his death.
Cobain didn't commit suicide in my opinion. In my opinion, he had more heiroine in his blood system than he wanted and that someone shot all that heiroine in Cobain, then when Cobain died, that other person shot Cobain to make it look like a suicide.
Leland may have been difficult back when he was drinking, but there is a difference between that and being a wife / child beater. Trying to smear Leland's character does not disprove my point. What does it have to do with his ability to recognize if the gun on Kurt's chest was posed?
@profaneoneohone YOU ARE A PROVEN IDIOT TO USE LELAND AS A SOURCE OF INFORMATION ON KURTS LIFE DURING THE LAST FEW YEARS. LELAND WAS NOT CLOSE TO KURT DURING THE LAST YEARS OF HIS LIFE. LELAND IS ONLY A CREDIBLE SOURCE OF INFO ON KURT AS A CHILD. LELAND DIDNT KNOW THE DRUG ABUSING, HEROIN ADDICTED KURT. TO EVEN BRING UP LELAND AS A SOURCE FOR HOW KURT WAS BEHAVING DURING THE LAST YEARS OF HIS LIFE, SHOWS HOW IRRATIONAL AND FOOLISH YOU ARE.
@profaneoneohone KURT WOULD HATE YOU AND ANYONE THAT SHARES YOUR VIEWS FOR MAKING PEOPLE LIKE GRANT, AND OTHER LEACHES RICH BY USING THE DEATH OF KURT TO MAKE MONEY. YOU ARE HELPING TO GIVE SUPPORT AND MONEY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE EARNING A LIVING OFF OF KURTS DEATH. YOU ARE SUPPORTING PEOPLE WHO ARE LIEING AND RELYING ON 3RD RATE WITNESSES TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF KURTS LIFE. SHAME ON YOU.
So, according to you, Leland was just a mom and child beater. That's great for Iris, but sadly, not true. Don is quoted telling what it was to have Leland as a family member, so don't try to deny what his own family states.
Leland Cobain... You mean the alcoholic wife beater? The mom beater? The child beater? The grandma beater? The man who was expelled from the army because he was so violent?
This guy is an expert in fists and limb movements.
Leland Cobain knows more about guns than the average person. And there were things about the scene that were so blatantly wrong. The bullet landing the opposite way the gun port was aiming? Come on.
You can throw all the meaningless important sounding medical terminology that you want out there. There is no way that Kurt could have held onto that riffle. The force of the blast would have knocked it off of him. Kurt's grandfather who is a hunter and knows guns said there was no way he could have been holding the riffle.
@profaneoneohone kurts grandfather is hardly a gun expert and it's really pathetic for you and people like you to be quoting his grandfather's words on kurts later years when they hardly had a close personal relationship after kurt became famous.
The passage continues: "This condition is of great medico-legal importance. Occasionally, in case of suicide, the weapon (e.g. pistol or knife) is seen firmly grasped in the victim's hand, which is a strong presumptive evidence of suicide. Attempts may be made to simulate this condition in order to conceal a murder, but ordinary rigor does not produce the same firm grip of a weapon, and/or the weapon may be placed in the victim's hand in a manner which could not have been used in a suicide."
From forensic pathology on-line, about "cadaveric spasm": "In this, the muscles that were contracted in life become stiff and rigid immediately after death without passing into the stage of primary relaxation. As such, the change preserves the exact attitude of the person at the time of death. No other condition simulates cadaveric spasm and it cannot be produced by any other method after death."
What does the morphine level have to do with it? You're trying to change the subject. Hartshorne only presented the cadaveric spasm theory because people were pointing out there was no way the gun could have been on Kurt, it would have been blown off of him by the blast.
@profaneoneohone No, you obviously don't understand the implications of cadaveric spasm. It offers proof of life at the time of death, for one, and it also offers forensically sound evidence that the muscles in Kurt's hand were clenched around the barrel at the exact moment he died from the gunshot. It's essentially rigor mortis of an instantaneous nature, occurring at the point of death. Hartshorne offered it as a refutation for the notion Kurt was unconscious/dead from heroin OD
@clabszero I see that you removed your comment, but I'll respond to it anyway. Cadaveric spasm occurs at the moment of death, it is a freezing into place of muscles that are already contracted in life, that's why it's so useful to forensic investigators. Regular rigor mortis does not produce the same firm grip of an object that cadaveric spasm does. It's forensically sound evidence that Kurt was alive and squeezing the gun barrel at the exact moment the gun was discharged. I can PM you web links
Cadaveric spasm was something Hartshorne came up with to try and explain away questions about the way the gun was on Kurt's body. Courtney cleverly destroyed the body and won't show the public the autopsy report so people like Testmeat can go on putting the false idea of cadaveric spasm out there.
@profaneoneohone No, that's idiotic and paranoid. If Hartshorne were going to lie about something, why not simply deny the morphine level? It was unofficially leaked, so it would've been far easier for him to lie about that than to make up the cadaveric spasm diagnosis, if his intention were to be dishonest. You're on the lunatic fringe of this whole discussion, you think everything that points to suicide was completely fabricated by Courtney Love. You're a massive, massive idiot.
The NSA (national security agency) has made claims that they caused Kurt Kobain's death. They claim that he was a targeted individual and they tortured and harassed him with satellites. They caused him severe stomach problems and agony by aiming at his stomach. They talked inside his head with SETI technology and caused microwave exposure. They threatned him not to tell anyone or they would suffer the same fate. They caused so much agony until he took his life.
IF KURT WANTED TO COMMITE SUSIDE HE WOULD OF IN FRANCE !!!! THERE WAS SOME ONE ELES (COURNTY LOVE DOD IT ) KURT WOULD NEVER RETIARE ! FOR SOME ODD RESON HE DIED AT 27 JUST LIKE OTHER FAMOUES PPL DID ... COURNTY JUST WANTED ALL THE & FOR HER & FRANCIES BEAN ....... SO HOW DID THAT WORK OUT NOW YOU HAVE ALL THE & IN THE WORLD & YOU ARE STILL FIGHTING FOR FULL COSTDOY OF FRANICES BEAN ... WAHTS UP W. THAT ?
@arbutus15904 geez learn to spell and put together sentences. you honestly need to be more educated in his death before spouting off multiple false statements. He would have killed himself in France? When was he in France? He attempted suicide in Rome in March 94. Plus, the reason he didn't die is because someone found him while he was in the early stages of overdosing and he was rushed to a hospital. France? what the fuck? And Courtney wanted what? His money? yea ok that seems logical.
@JeweyLewis go die. no wait dont... i wanna know if u think that today's music is better because if u say retarded shit like u just said i wont kill u.... ill just sell u as a sex slave to a foreign country after pouring sulfuric acid over ur face and pissing on your mother's grave. RIP KURT COBAIN
@poohpoohbox2 Did you know Kurt Cobain, or what he did or did not say to people in his lifetime? Maybe he said something like that to people, maybe he didn't. How could you possibly know? Besides, "fishhand360" was referencing famous people who died at that age, not claiming that Kurt ever said anything like that.
He had a deathwish and they shot him.
studas2011 4 weeks ago
blvd home. Kurt cooperatively came out of the room and told the officer that he locked himself in the room to keep away from Courtney & HAD NO INTENTION TO HARM HIMSELF. the police gave Courtney a warning about planting a phony call & because they were on a call about THREAT of suicide they confiscated Kurt's guns!
how can an incident like this go un-noticed?
JUSTICE FOR KURT
Closure4Cobain 1 month ago
the SPD did nothing for Cobain - they should of reviewed their own personal records before closing the death of Kurt Cobain - in their own documents they have the proof that something wasn't right between the relationship of Mrs. Harrison-love-Cobain & Kurt Cobain
On March 18th 1994 Courtney Love called the Seattle Police because her husband had locked himself in a room, she also STATED that he was going to kill himself. So the police responded to the call and arrived at the Lake WA...
Closure4Cobain 1 month ago
his wife did it she was HIGH ON DOPE so she didnt know what the heck she was doing SHE DID IT
guitargrinder1 1 month ago
bork bork bork i love bork cobain almost as much as i love disco or thrust metal or chicken wings chicken bork bork steaks bork bork bork
defacedreality12 1 month ago
Lies are not relevant.
blvdofbroken 2 months ago
Comment removed
TestMeatDollSteak 1 month ago
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@blvdofbroken LOL You simply call everything that goes against your theories "lies", which is why you can't have a rational discussion about this subject matter.
TestMeatDollSteak 1 month ago
Your conversation is never relevant, LOL.
blvdofbroken 2 months ago
@blvdofbroken LOL How is a conversation about Cobain's death not relevant to this video? I stick to the evidence and facts that are verifiable by police records, recorded/videotaped statements, quotes, etc. People like you form the majority of your arguments on conjecture, misinformation and internet rumors, which is why you can't rationally debate me and instead insult me.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
Recently I responded to you in this video and one other, so what. Also, I only comment when you comment to me. I see comments by you in many other videos. Is this some kind of decent life for you? At least I'm doing something I believe in. What do you get out of it? You need to get a life.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 So you always respond to me when I comment you, that's what :) Point being that if you really "don't care" what I think, then why take the time to try and rebut me?? Your "theories" about Kurt Cobain's life and death often defy logic and/or are factually inaccurate, and they DESERVE to be called out as such. I don't know for certain if Kurt Cobain was murdered or not, but I know that Tom Grant's "murder theory" has a lot of holes in it and deserves 2b questioned as well :)
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97: Apparently some people don't bother to watch the vids they comment on, LOL. I agree, Kurt was murdered.
blvdofbroken 2 months ago
@blvdofbroken Read the thread, our conversation was entirely relevant to the subject matter, smarty pants :) I disagree with you: Tom Grant hasn't proved his case and the best evidence is in favor of the official verdict.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
I don't respond to everything you post. Unlike you, I have a life.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 And yet you responded to me AGAIN! :) C,mon, Judy, you've got comments in these conspiracy vids that go back as far as 3 years!! That's some life ya got there, toots! xoxoxo :)
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 Do you call having a life spending years and years posting illogical, paranoid rants about kurt being murdered "having a life"? Hinkley (the guy who killed Lennon) believed that he had a life before he shot John. Judy do you consider having a "life" believing that Courtney is threatened by your posts and is hiring people to go on youtube to attack you? Judy you are so caught up with mental illness and your illogical thoughts that you cant figure out anything rational.
EdinAmmar 1 month ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I hate that bitch murderer.
freddiemercurychamp 2 months ago
Your arguments don't make sense. If the person who leaked the level was after money they'd have gone to a tabloid. Also, larger audience. Quite a bit of legitimate information comes out of tabloids.
You act like I'm really really concerned about what you think. Nobody cares what you think. You haven't indicated any evidence whatsoever that this was cadaveric spasm. A statement by a coroner trying to fend off questions and criticisms by the public about his analysis doesn't count.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 LOL, You obviously "care" enough about what I think to respond to everything I post, and your argument of: "Gee, I don't like this cadaveric spasm business because it doesn't fit with Cobain being in a coma so I'm just going to say that Hartshorne lied" is really lame. Statements made by the coroner that performed his autopsy don't count?? He couldn't "lie" about cadaveric spasm for the same reason he couldn't deny the morphine level - the autopsy reports would dispute him. Duh.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 JUDY YOUR PARANOID ILLOGICAL VIEWS ARE OBVIOUS WHEN YOU SAID "A STATEMENT BY A CORONER TRYING TO FEND OFF QUESTIONS AND CRITICISMS BY THE PUBLIC DOESNT COUNT". BESIDES KNOWING KURTS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS JUDY KNOWS THE CORONERS THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS. IT'S IMPRESSIVE HOW JUDY (WHO NEVER EXAMINED KURTS BODY) KNOWS MORE ABOUT CADAVERIC SPASMS THAN THE CORONER WHO ACTUALLY EXAMINED KURTS BODY. JUDY DO YOU NOT SEE THE PATTERN OF MENTAL ILLNESS PARANOIA THAT RUNS THROUGH YER WORDS
EdinAmmar 1 month ago
The point also remains that it doesn't make any sense that Hartshorne would lie about the diagnosis of cadaveric spasm. He wasn't the only person to have viewed Kurt's body at the scene - 2 other coroners were present in the greenhouse that day. The presence of conditions like regular rigor mortis and cadaveric spasm are very forensically significant to investigators and would definitely also be part of Cobain's autopsy reports. There is no logical reason to conclude that Hartshorne lied.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
The newspaper didn't compensate anyone. And if they were really looking for money they would have approached a tabloid with the information.
The level was leaked. That was enough of an indication someone thought something was fishy. Read Roger Lewis' essay about how the heroin level would have made it impossible for Kurt to have fired that gun.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 You really have no way of knowing whether or not the newspaper compensated anyone for that morphine level, is my point. And, if they wanted the story to be believed, they'd know to avoid a tabloid.
I've read Roger Lewis's essay - I've told you that I've read his essay time and time again. I've read Grant's web site, Halperin's book, you name it. It's only fair to ask for another case of a cadaveric spasm diagnosed in a victim that was thought to be in a coma @ the time of death.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
The police determined suicide. Apparently someone at that autopsy thought something was fishy when they leaked the heroin level.
Hartshorne made up the condition because he could. Unlike the physical reaction you're talking about, the morphine level is a matter of record.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 Why do you assume that whoever leaked the info was concerned? Maybe they were seeking compensation from the newspaper that printed the story.
Hartshorne was only one of THREE King's County Medical Examiners present at the scene who viewed Kurt's body. If Hartshorne "made up" the condition, other people would know. The force that was required for them to break Cobain's grip of the weapon is a matter of record as well and would be part of the diagnosis in the autopsy reports.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
Overrated? An overrated guy who changed the landscape of music and many famous artists cite as an inspiration today? You better check your definitions.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
ther was no cospiracy. kurt cobain was a miserable, spoiled and completly overated drug addict. if he had lived he would have become a bloated boring has been the same as krist nova-whatever-his name is.
davetims1 2 months ago
How do crime scene photos (that were never developed) prove cadaveric spasm? You don't make sense.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 There is absolutely nothing that suggests that any of the 3 Kings County Medical Examiners that viewed Kurt's body, and determined he killed himself, lied to "cover their asses" about anything. Why would they "make up" a condition, when they could far easier deny a reported morphine level that was suspiciously/unofficially leaked?? If they "made up" this condition, the autopsy reports & crime scene photos would dispute their claims of cadaveric spasm. Your theory makes no sense.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
The morphine level is a matter of record, whereas they'd have to have a body to examine to prove cadaveric spasm. Hartshorne was trying to cover his ass.
Kurt's hand was stiff because of rigormortis. Your statement "proves" nothing.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 No. For the 3rd time, cadaveric spasm (instantaneous rigor) happens at the moment of death and disappears when regular rigor mortis disappears, some 3-4 days after death (duration of rigor depends largely on atmospheric conditions/temperature). There would be no sign of the condition in a weeks, months, or years old corpse. The autopsy reports and crime scene photographs are visual and written documentation of the condition of Kurt's body as it was discovered, with the spasm.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU NEED TO BE TOLD THAT YOU ARE MEDICALLY AND FACTUALLY WRONG ON CADAVERIC SPASMS AND RIGOR MORTIS? JUDY YOU HAVE NOT PASSED THE DEVELOPMENTAL STAGE OF A SPOILED 2 YEAROLD CAUSE WHEN YOUR FACED WITH ACTUAL FACTS YOU STOMP YOUR FEET, START CRYING, AND JUST REPEAT YOUR DISPROVEN IRRATIONAL THOUGHTS. ALL YOU ARE IS A NAIVE, SPOILED, LITTLE GIRL WHO GREW UP IN A PROTECTED BUBBLE AND KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT DRUG ADDICTION OR THE REAL WORLD. U LOOK LIKE A FOOL JUDY
EdinAmmar 1 month ago
The morphine level was not officially released, it was suspiciously leaked to the media without the consent of the authorities, nor Cobain's family. Hartshorne could have easily denied the blood morphine level, if he had wanted to be duplicitous, and no one would have been the wiser. He didn't. The FACT that Kurt's hand was PRIED from the rifle is further supported by the publicly released police reports. There is no good reason to assume that Hartshorne lied. You are a fucking moron :)
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
Hartshorne didn't say this till long after the autopsy and only because people were pointing out suspicious facts. He was trying to cover his own ass. There is no proof of cadaveric spasm. No proof now that Courtney has cremated his body making another autopsy impossible.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 There is no proof that Hartshorne lied about anything. If he were going to lie, why not just deny the unofficially leaked morphine level?? Even if Cobain's body still existed, you wouldn't find a cadaveric spasm evident in a decomposed corpse. It happens at the point of death, and disappears when regular rigor disappears. The AUTOPSY REPORTS and CRIME SCENE PHOTOS of Kurt's body as it was discovered are all that you'd need to prove or disprove it :)
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
I'll repeat what I said, that Kurt displayed rigormortis. To prove otherwise you'd have to re-examine his body . . . oh, wait, Courtney made that impossible by cremating him. Hmmm . . .
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 Instantaneous rigor/cadaveric spasm, according to the medical examiners that preformed his autopsy :) You have not a shred of evidence to suggest that any of the medical examiners lied or intentionally covered anything up :) And you DON'T need his body, dummy, just the autopsy reports, which you would also need to either prove or disprove the unofficially leaked morphine level :)
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
The symptoms the police described are consistent with rigormotis of a dead body left for several days. Stop spreading misinformation.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 Misinformation?? It's INFORMATION direct from the mouth of the coroner that performed Cobain's autopsy!! Stop trying to deny something simply because it doesn't fit with your "theories". If Hartshorne diagnosed the condition correctly, then it's sound forensic evidence that Cobain's gunshot wound was self-inflicted, and flies directly in the face of the notion that he was in a coma or deceased when the weapon was discharged.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 I'll post Hartshorne's statements AGAIN:
"With gun suicides, you always still see the victim gripping the barrel of the gun. That's because at the point of death, the hand freezes in place. We literally had to pry that shotgun from Cobain's hands. You could still see the markings in his palms from where he had been gripping it for days. That's a sure sign the wound was self inflicted. That kind of evidence doesn't lie."
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
That still doesn't prove cadaveric spasm. Only on set of rigimortis, after someone placed the riffle in his hands after death.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 "Ordinary rigor does not produce the same firm grip of a weapon" - that's per an acting medical examiner's description of the condition, from Forensic Pathology Online. Cadaveric spasm is rigor of an instantaneously occurring nature, freezing into place muscles (usually the hands) that were contracted in the victim's last act of life. If it were ordinary rigor, the muscles would go into a stage of primary relaxation before rigor onset, and you wouldn't have a firm grip.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 From Forensic Pathology Online, by Dr. Dinesh Rao
"No other condition simulates cadaveric spasm and it cannot be produced by any other method after death. Very great force is required to overcome stiffness. It passes without interruption into normal rigor mortis and disappears when normal rigor disappears."
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
The police report also stated the stool was jammed against the door, something they later admitted was wrong. I don't trust the Seattle pd.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 All three officer's reports (Levandowski, Yoshida, Kirkland) describe the weapon being grasped in Kurt's left hand, as does the major investigative report. Hartshorne was one of THREE King's County Medical Examiners that viewed Cobain's body at the scene - if any of them were going to fabricate something to conceal a murder from the public, why not simply deny the unofficially-leaked blood morphine level?? Your theory that they "lied" makes no sense.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 lets address your comment that you dont trust the seattle pd. Judy has claimed that the Seattle pd were "prejudiced against addicted punks" and the seattle pd had/has corruption problems. Judy every police department in the usa has/had corruption problems and no police department is perfect investigating/documenting a crime scene, none of that disproves the totality of the documented facts surrounding kurts death.
EdinAmmar 1 month ago
Kurt's hand showed no signs of cadavericspasm according to people on the scene. Hartshorne made up the medical term because he knew no one could do a further autopsy since Kurt's body was cremated.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 The condition was diagnosed on the scene - where are you getting your information from?? Levandowski describes Kurt's left hand being wrapped around the gun barrel and Yoshida/Kirkland describe the weapon being pried from his hand at the scene. The autopsy reports and crime scene photos are all sealed, so Hartshorne's statements and the police reports are all we have to go on. You have zero evidence to back a claim that Hartshorne "lied" about anything.
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 im going to address kurt being cremated. Fact kurt was very interested in Buddhism and even praticed it on and off. If one were to ascribe any religious beliefs that kurt had right before his death it would be buddhism. Therefore creamating his body after his autopsy is perfectly logical and rational. You keep bringing up his cremation like it was odd burial method that went against kurts beliefs.
EdinAmmar 1 month ago
There is no proof cadiveric spasm relates to this case. It is an unfounded claim since Kurt's body no longer exists for examination to back up any such theories.
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
@judyleasugar97 We have the medical examiner that performed Kurt's autopsy, Hartshorne, talking about having diagnosed the condition in Kurt's left hand
"With gun suicides, you always still see the victim gripping the barrel of the gun. That's because at the point of death, the hand freezes in place. We literally had to pry that shotgun from Cobain's hands. You could still see the markings in his palms from where he had been gripping it for days. That's a sure sign the wound was self inflicted."
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago
Comment removed
shapelygrungemaster 2 months ago
No one can shoot 3 times a lethal dose and continue. Can you produce a record of one case?
judyleasugar97 2 months ago
From "Forensic Pathology Online", by Dr. Dinesh Rao, on cadaveric spasm.
"This condition is of great medico-legal importance. Occasionally, in case of suicide, the weapon, e.g. pistol or knife, is seen firmly grasped in the victim's hand which is a strong presumptive evidence of suicide. Attempts may be made to simulate this condition to conceal a murder, but ordinary rigor does not produce the same firm grip of a weapon."
TestMeatDollSteak 2 months ago 6
This guy talking is such a shmuck
FreedumbFighter28 2 months ago in playlist (11.05.10)Cobain Investigation/CopGetsPwnd
dis shit is fukin krazy
LASERMH4LIFE 2 months ago
I dont knoe what happnd . Kurt said he wanted to become a rock legend, commit suicide, and die in blades of glory .
He was incredible,amazing, he had such an amazing talent and if i waz even born before he died i wouldve done anything to see him perform in person .
He was a rock legend, maybe committed suicide, and died in blades of glory ...
babyiscece1026 2 months ago
If he injected himself with heroin then his handwriting would be impaired, hell, it is. Therefor your signature theory is crap.
ChainsawingRico 2 months ago 17
I respect him for killing himself cowards way out my ass I dont know anyone who could do that
Mrcrustypubes 3 months ago
It was SUICIDE.
1. The toxicology results never leaked. It isn't known if Kurt was loaded or not. It's been proven a newspaper made up the reported amount of 1,52.
2. There were 6 prints lifted. The prints were not legible because of excessive sweat (usual in suicide cases because the victim gets nervous).
3. The note was analysed by an expert. The result was that Cobain wrote every single word.
4. The credit card records are delayed(eg:plane ticket bought the 1st of april, charged the 2nd)
floppingnoni 3 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
LMAO :) The trolls have only like 40 dislikes and we have over 550 likes for this REALITY. I can only imagine what kind of pathetic trolls have came to this murder case pissing "suicide" out of their little media pimped mouths. Dave Grohl and that lumberjack dork who hit himself in the head with his bass at the MTV awards are COAT TAILERS who are still too gutless to admit what really happened. No wonder Kurt was dumping their sorry asses and leaving the superificial celebrity scene !
GnosticPrince 3 months ago
THAT GUY AT THE END IS A WANKER
shauncoll82 3 months ago 3
how many times could he sing and i don't have a gun?
redrey718619 4 months ago
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Hi I just published a free eBook on the Cobain murder theories. Check out brendanhunt dotcom to download the free pdf version.
BrendanHunt1 4 months ago
Everyone who gets a restraining order has one thing in common: they are afraid of the person they are getting an order against. It illustrates that Courtney is a dangerous person.
A case in point: she stabbed a girl when she was in school. She tried to murder her first husband by setting the bed on fire while he slept. She is violent and unpredictable.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
Why don't you answer my question, why do people get restraining orders?
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone PLEASE REPEAT THIS COMMENT 10X TO YOURSELF. THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY PEOPLE GET RESTRAINING ORDERS. THERE IS NOT JUST ONE UMBRELLA REASON FOR IT. BESIDES WHAT DOES THE SITUATION BETWEEN FRANCES AND COURTNEY HAVE TO DO WITH KURT KILLING HIMSELF? JUST USING BASIC LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE IN COMPARING YOUR PARANOID THEORY OF KURTS DEATH TO THE ONE FROM THE POLICE, SHOWS HOW RIDICULOUS YOU APPEAR.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
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At the risk of repeating myself for those too mentally impaired to get it, Kurt didn't kill himself. The restraining order proves Courtney is dangerous.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
Kurt didn't kill himself. The restraining order proves Courtney is dangerous.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone NOW you are just acting like a whining little baby girl. You cant even provide logic or use facts to support your irrational, paranoid claims, so you just make ignorant statements. Start shooting heroin and maybe you'll be able to figure out what addiction does to a person mentally and how heroin addiction effects a persons life. You like judy live in a protective bubble, with no knowledge of how the outside world works.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone i've crushed all of your paranoid theories on kurts "murder" on here and all you have shown is that you are an immature, little girl, who belongs in a mall, listening to my chemical romance cd's.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@EdinAmmar actually MCR has turned everthing around, and gerard way is an insane performer. this coming from somebody who hated MCR until their newer stuff came out.. at least they arent like nirvana who ruined music
fucia11 4 months ago
@fucia11 you know nothing about music history and have terrible taste in music. Obviously you are a child and have no clue what the music scene was like before nirvana broke. You really should be ashamed of your ignorance and immaturity towards music.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@fucia11 I know nothing about music?.. try me sir.. bet i know way more than you could imagine.. child, no im 47 thank you very much.
fucia11 4 months ago
This guy is so stupid i cant even.
Look at his signature? Look at Kurts handwriting in journals man... In his plain mind hed say the journals were forged too.
Do conspiracists realize that not a single expert outside the investigation has ever seen the suicide note? Do they realize handwriting analysis isnt a science? Isnt reliable?
If you want to believe this technique is reliable believe what the only expert who analysed the note says, and not people who looked at a bad xerox. My 2 cents.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
@floppingnoni this confused the shit out of me.
TrevDA9 3 months ago
@TrevDA9
Handwriting analysis isn't reliable,it's a pseudo-science. I'm saying that people who believe in this analysis should be smart and trust what the only person who ever analysed the note says. The person I'm talking about works for the wa state patrol and determined Kurt wrote the note.
Richard Lee is jumping on the bandwagon of "the note was forged".He isn't an expert, and if he were itd be irrelevant since the real note is needed to see the beginning and end of the trace.
floppingnoni 3 months ago
What are the reasons people get restraining orders? They don't get them for no reason.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
Why do people get restraining orders?
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone what does frances getting a restraining order have to do with kurt killing himself?
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
More interesting topic, I wonder is Kurt Cobain in Hell
piaybackjunkie17 4 months ago
No one said anything about Kurt's "thoughts and feelings." We were talking about the reasons for restraining orders, specifically in relation to Frances and the family. Are you high or something?
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone when will you seek help? When will you get over this massive hate for courtney and stop portraying kurt as some weak, naive, submissive, gullible, person and understand that everything kurt did he willingly choose to do and that NO ONE made kurt do anything he didnt want to do. You know nothing about addiction and all of your consipracy theories on his "murder" show how ignorant, and detached you are from rational logical thought. seek help get on medication.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@EdinAmmar
Agree 100%. Conspiracists portray Kurt as a dumb and dumber character.
floppingnoni 4 months ago 6
Sure, change guardianship, but why the restraining order? She was afraid of Courtney. People don't bother to get a restraining order unless they are afraid of someone.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone yet again you are assuming and talking like you personally know the lives/thoughts of the cobain family. You dont know them and you dont know their thoughts and feelings. Please focus on your miserable, ignorant life and stop pretending you know what kurt and his family thinks and feels. You have serious mental issues. Nothing you've said is logical (kurt was clean, courtney tried to kill kurt in rome, courtney bribed the police,da, and corner). You are mentally ill.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone what you are doing regarding frances wanting a restraining order and the reasons behind it is speculation. You are talking about a personal family matter that is none of your business and by assuming frances is scared or in fear of courtney you are talking as if you personally know her thoughts and feelings.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
I dont like Mat Ckills view on Kurt Cobains death
It makes me want to punch him in face >______<
TheActive911 4 months ago
I already answered you. You seem to forget the comments were made many years ago. What have these people said lately? That was my point. Frances filed a restraining order. She is clearly afraid of her own mother.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone frances restraining order had nothing to do with "fearing" courtney. Courtney was on drugs and not mentaly stable to take care of frances, thats the reason behind the restraining order and her wanting to be emancipated.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
I already answered you. Go to page 3 if you are that interested.
Just one thing, one can hate a person without thinking in murders and conspiracies.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
When was the "quack" comment made? 16 years ago? I would love to know what their opinion is now, since Frances hates Courtney.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone in your paranoid screwed up world the "cobain" family needs to release monthly, weekly, or yearly, press releases updating how they feel about kurts death??? His family made public comments regarding his death years ago and nothing regarding the circumstances of Kurts death has changed. Get over your obession with courtney. You are so blinded with hate for courtney that you fail to use common logical sense on kurts death. seek help.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
The Cobains said it better: "quack who try to make money by questioning Kurt's death".
Tell me, what has Grant done besides taping phone calls and talking to journalists?
Oh, and I wasnt addressing Grant with the censorship sentence. The person it was addressed to got the message.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
Tom Grant is not "exploiting" Kurt. Whatever he gets for the manuals goes to costs investigating the case. Something Kurt would have been in favor of, pursuing justice.
You apparently don't know the meaning of censorship.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone YOU DONT KNOW KURT AND KURT WAS A PRIVATE PERSON, WHO DIDNT WANT ANYONE (MEDIA, OR PRIVATE INVESTGATOR) BUGGING HIS FAMILY. KURT WOULD HATE YOU AND ANY OTHER PARASITE THAT IS GIVING MONEY TO THESE LEECHES WHO ARE PROFITING OFF OF HIS DEATH. YOU HAVE YET TO BRING UP OR MENTION ANYTHING REGARDING KURTS LIFE THAT IS LOGICAL AND SANE.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
Talk about censorship...
What Tom Grant had to say at his site:
"Due to our slumping economy, we have decided to temporarily lower the cost of the Cobain Case Study Manual and Audio CD package by nearly 20%. NOW FOR ONLY $36.00!".
Whos exploiting Kurt too?
floppingnoni 4 months ago
A PI goes to a house that cost more than 1 million dollars, and there's a conspiracy in his brain that doesn't allow him to think there must be a garage and a backyard. Great headline.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
Maybe because the person showing him through the house had been assigned to show him the entire property. Why didn't they? You people keep going back to this insignificant point, as if it makes him a bad detective. I don't see how, when much the important evidence in the case was acquired by Grant. That is more of an indication of his ability as a detective.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone first Grant has had numerous ethical charges filed against him. Fact, a good pi doesnt need someone to escort them around a property, they wouldnt need someone to show them a greenhouse above a garage. Most of grants "evidence" was collected by unreliable sources that at best where 2nd hand witnesses to the events that happened in kurts life. You have proven time and time again to know nothing about addiction and have no logical, common sense.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone look at the 9/11 investigation. There is video of planes going into the wtc and the investigation into the collpase of the wtc is pretty cut and dry. Yet there are irrational, conspiracy, wackos like yourself, who have concocted a conspiracy that the govt blew up those building. Like yourself, those people rely on loop holes and errors to spin a irrational story and even rely on their own "specialist" to back their paranoid views. YOu are no better than those 9/11 conspiracy
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
I'm still wondering why Grant didn't bother searching the garage. It was there and he skipped it. Had he gone to the garage hed have found the stairs to the room above.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
I'm still wondering why Grant was not shown the room above the garage?
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
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profaneoneohone 4 months ago
Thats detective Martinez Terry... and?
Expecting a junkie to do an exhaustive search is pretty stupid. Not my fault if Grant didnt realize a house that cost more than a million dollars had a garage, a backyard, etc.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
Have u seen the toxicology reports?Then all you do is speculate about lethal doses for non druggies. Why don't you read all the leaked documents and make up a conspiracy based on that.Itd be more reliable than basing all your theories n what a PI who didnt find the corpse of the person he was hired to find believes.
To offer money to a policeman you first have to know that person is corrupt. Do you really think Courtney had that many contacts in a city she hardly lived in?Detective Martinez+...
floppingnoni 4 months ago
@floppingnoni: You still haven't answered the question: Why didn't the person leading Grant through the house show him the greenhouse? What did the people in the house have to hide?
Courtney was actually working with people in the Seattle pd as a snitch to get drug dealers. She stupidly admitted that.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone YOU ARE A CLUELESS IDIOT. FACT, GRANT IS THE PROFESSIONAL PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR AND HE SHOULDNT REQUIRE ANYONE TO SHOW HIM THE GREENHOUSE INORDER TO DO A PROPER INSPECTION OF KURTS PROPERTY. THE PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE HAD NOTHING TO HIDE OR THEY WOULDNT HAVE SHOWN GRANT AROUND THE HOUSE. ALL YOU ARE DOING IS LOOKING FOR LOOPHOLES WHILE FORGETTING THAT YOUR EXPLANATION OF KURTS DEATH IS ILLOGICAL.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
The fact remains no one could fire a gun with a 3 times lethal dose of heroin in their system, not to mention the valium. That means someone else fired the gun and that rules out suicide.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
I never said she controls the entire Seattle pd. You tend to go to extremes. I do think it's possible that Cameron accepted a bribe, since he was stealing money from crime scenes. And the Seattle pd has a history of corruption. But I was just expressing that possibility.
Even if it was merely the case that it was a very poorly conducted investigation, you should consider that police stick together. They are a very stubborn bunch and will never admit it when they've been wrong.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone CAN YOU NAME ME ONE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN A MAJOR US CITY THAT DOESNT HAVE A HISTORY OF CORRPUTION OR BAD COPS? THE HISTORY OF CORRUPTION OR THAT DETECTIVE WHO STOLE MONEY FROM CRIME SECENES DOESNT NEGATE THE FACTS SURROUNDING KURTS DEATH OR THE TIMELINE OF EVENTS LEADING UP TO KURTS DEATH. NO POLICE INVESTIGATION IS PERFECT WITHOUT MISTAKES. KURTS DEATH WAS AN OPEN AND SHUT CASE. U NEED TO REALIZE THAT KURT WAS A REAL PERSON WITH FLAWS WHO WAS ADDICTED TO DRUGS.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
If you don't know when this statement took place you absolutely only read conspiracy sites, and therefor, are brainwashed. One clue: that sites avoid stuff like this because they like to manipulate their readers. Another clue: it was in the 00s.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
When have they said these things lately? Maybe 16 years ago. And they could well have been afraid of Courtney, as well as influenced by her gifts of money to them.
Ruthless psychopaths are capable of murder.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone TELL ME WHAT HAS CHANGED REGARDING KURTS DEATH FROM THE TIME HIS FAMILY MADE THOSE COMMENTS TILL NOW??? NOTHING. DOES KURTS FAMILY HAVE TO RELEASE MONTHLY STATEMENTS STATING KURT KILLED HIMSELF FOR 16 YEARS INORDER FOR YOU THICK HEAD TO UNDERSTAND HE KILLED HIMSELF. IF KURTS FAMILY WAS SO SCARED OF COURTNEY, WHY WOULD THEY BACK FRANCES EMANCIPATION EFFORTS AND ACT AS HER GUARDIAN? THOSE ARENT THE ACTIONS OF A SCARED, INTIMIDATED PERSON/FAMILY.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone the only psychopath is you who denies reality and gives all these super human powers to courtney who according to you controlled the entire seattle police department, the seattle states attorny office, the seattle corner, and the media. Do you even realize how desperate, paranoid, and mentally insane you sound???
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
Who cares if Courtney is a ruthless person? You hate the woman so much you forget we are debating what the Cobains think of the murder theories and people who support them. They say:
1. "We all know that Kurt killed himself"
2. People who think Kurt was murdered are "quacks who try to make money by questioning his death"
floppingnoni 4 months ago
Courtney profited by Kurt's death in particular. She gained hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm sure it's apparent to the Cobain's she is a very ruthless person.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
Your information is wrong. Just more of Courtney's usual tactics to try and divide people. Why haven't the Cobains voiced these opinions themselves in the last years? it's highly likely they're afraid of Courtney. She is connected to 4 mysterious deaths.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone WOW. HAVE YOU HEARD OF SEVEN DEGREES OF SEPARATION. A FAMOUS PERSON CAN BE CONNECTED TO ALOT OF MYSETERIOUS DEATHS CAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN IN CONTACT WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE. KURTS FAMILY IS HARDLY AFRAID OF COURTNEY THEY EVEN TOOK FRANCES SIDE ON GETTING EMANCIPATED AND ACTED AS HER GUARDIAN. THOSE ARE NOT THE ACTIONS OF A PERSON WHO IS AFRAID OF COURTNEY. YOU ARE A SICK PERSON, WHO HAS MASSIVE PARANOIA AND IRRATIONAL THOUGHTS. SEEK HELP, SERIOUSLY.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
We all have seen the pics of the time they went to Monte. Kim says that the only reason they were close to Leland was because of Iris.The moment she died the moment they said goodbye to Leland. Iris died in 1997, that year Leland stopped receiving pictures of Frances and phonecalls. Doesn't Leland realize that they were sending stuff to Iris and not to him?
According to the Cobains, the people you support are "quacks who try to make money by questioning Kurt's death".
floppingnoni 4 months ago
@floppingnoni thank you for bringing up rational and logical thoughts to this debate. please check out a person named judyleasugar who is constantly on youtube saying almost the identical things that profaneoneohone is saying.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@EdinAmmar
Thank you.
I know about judy, she thinks Im courtney. I've proved her to be wrong too many times and she left me alone (I cross fingers). Sometimes, her soul leaves her body and possesses other youtube users. It's weird because once her soul leaves a user it immediately invades the next. I wonder why...
You know, yesterday Tom Grant replied to one of my comments, just to blame the weather and the seattle police department for their sloppy work in finding Kurt. Pathetic.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
@floppingnoni that's funny cause judy accused me of working for courtney love and she actually thinks that courtney love is hiring and paying people to go on youtube and post replies to her comments. What kind of ego does a person have to think that courtney love is threatened or scared of them and is hiring people to go on youtube and post replies to their comments??? Judy is the "grunge" version of a tea party/ repub supporter. Her hate for courtney (obama) has made her illogical
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@EdinAmmar
haha judy didnt accuse me directly, but wrote a really serious comment on a users channel stating she was sure i was courtney. She told to another user that i was paying testmeatdollstick. Crazy! I admit that sometimes I enjoy her madness.
floppingnoni 4 months ago
Courtney is not a leech? She did not earn any of the hundreds of millions of dollars she got from Kurt's estate. He was about to dump her ass for adultery.
I have copies of photos of Kurt, Courtney and Frances over at Leland's house. When people have kids they generally become closer to their family and that was true with Kurt. He planned to go fishing with his grandfather shortly before his death.
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
Cobain didn't commit suicide in my opinion. In my opinion, he had more heiroine in his blood system than he wanted and that someone shot all that heiroine in Cobain, then when Cobain died, that other person shot Cobain to make it look like a suicide.
MrCobainfan 4 months ago in playlist documatary
Leland may have been difficult back when he was drinking, but there is a difference between that and being a wife / child beater. Trying to smear Leland's character does not disprove my point. What does it have to do with his ability to recognize if the gun on Kurt's chest was posed?
profaneoneohone 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone YOU ARE A PROVEN IDIOT TO USE LELAND AS A SOURCE OF INFORMATION ON KURTS LIFE DURING THE LAST FEW YEARS. LELAND WAS NOT CLOSE TO KURT DURING THE LAST YEARS OF HIS LIFE. LELAND IS ONLY A CREDIBLE SOURCE OF INFO ON KURT AS A CHILD. LELAND DIDNT KNOW THE DRUG ABUSING, HEROIN ADDICTED KURT. TO EVEN BRING UP LELAND AS A SOURCE FOR HOW KURT WAS BEHAVING DURING THE LAST YEARS OF HIS LIFE, SHOWS HOW IRRATIONAL AND FOOLISH YOU ARE.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
@profaneoneohone KURT WOULD HATE YOU AND ANYONE THAT SHARES YOUR VIEWS FOR MAKING PEOPLE LIKE GRANT, AND OTHER LEACHES RICH BY USING THE DEATH OF KURT TO MAKE MONEY. YOU ARE HELPING TO GIVE SUPPORT AND MONEY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE EARNING A LIVING OFF OF KURTS DEATH. YOU ARE SUPPORTING PEOPLE WHO ARE LIEING AND RELYING ON 3RD RATE WITNESSES TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF KURTS LIFE. SHAME ON YOU.
EdinAmmar 4 months ago
The guy at the end is a dick
covmandan1 4 months ago in playlist Cobain death mystery
So, according to you, Leland was just a mom and child beater. That's great for Iris, but sadly, not true. Don is quoted telling what it was to have Leland as a family member, so don't try to deny what his own family states.
floppingnoni 5 months ago
He was not a "wife beater." That story is greatly exaggerated. What does that have to do with his ability to recognize a crime scene that was staged?
profaneoneohone 5 months ago
Leland Cobain... You mean the alcoholic wife beater? The mom beater? The child beater? The grandma beater? The man who was expelled from the army because he was so violent?
This guy is an expert in fists and limb movements.
floppingnoni 5 months ago
Meant to say, the bullet shell landing the opposite way the gun port was landing.
profaneoneohone 5 months ago
Leland Cobain knows more about guns than the average person. And there were things about the scene that were so blatantly wrong. The bullet landing the opposite way the gun port was aiming? Come on.
profaneoneohone 5 months ago
You can throw all the meaningless important sounding medical terminology that you want out there. There is no way that Kurt could have held onto that riffle. The force of the blast would have knocked it off of him. Kurt's grandfather who is a hunter and knows guns said there was no way he could have been holding the riffle.
profaneoneohone 5 months ago
@profaneoneohone kurts grandfather is hardly a gun expert and it's really pathetic for you and people like you to be quoting his grandfather's words on kurts later years when they hardly had a close personal relationship after kurt became famous.
EdinAmmar 5 months ago
The passage continues: "This condition is of great medico-legal importance. Occasionally, in case of suicide, the weapon (e.g. pistol or knife) is seen firmly grasped in the victim's hand, which is a strong presumptive evidence of suicide. Attempts may be made to simulate this condition in order to conceal a murder, but ordinary rigor does not produce the same firm grip of a weapon, and/or the weapon may be placed in the victim's hand in a manner which could not have been used in a suicide."
TestMeatDollSteak 5 months ago
From forensic pathology on-line, about "cadaveric spasm": "In this, the muscles that were contracted in life become stiff and rigid immediately after death without passing into the stage of primary relaxation. As such, the change preserves the exact attitude of the person at the time of death. No other condition simulates cadaveric spasm and it cannot be produced by any other method after death."
TestMeatDollSteak 5 months ago
What does the morphine level have to do with it? You're trying to change the subject. Hartshorne only presented the cadaveric spasm theory because people were pointing out there was no way the gun could have been on Kurt, it would have been blown off of him by the blast.
profaneoneohone 5 months ago
@profaneoneohone No, you obviously don't understand the implications of cadaveric spasm. It offers proof of life at the time of death, for one, and it also offers forensically sound evidence that the muscles in Kurt's hand were clenched around the barrel at the exact moment he died from the gunshot. It's essentially rigor mortis of an instantaneous nature, occurring at the point of death. Hartshorne offered it as a refutation for the notion Kurt was unconscious/dead from heroin OD
TestMeatDollSteak 5 months ago
@profaneoneohone "blown off" is a bit of an understatement. Do you even know what type of gun it is? besides it being a shotgun?
faggotwithoutacause 5 months ago
@faggotwithoutacause: Remington 20 gauge. It was a protection model loaded with birdshot.
profaneoneohone 5 months ago
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clabszero 5 months ago
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clabszero 5 months ago
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clabszero 5 months ago
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clabszero 5 months ago
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clabszero 5 months ago
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clabszero 5 months ago
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clabszero 5 months ago
@clabszero I see that you removed your comment, but I'll respond to it anyway. Cadaveric spasm occurs at the moment of death, it is a freezing into place of muscles that are already contracted in life, that's why it's so useful to forensic investigators. Regular rigor mortis does not produce the same firm grip of an object that cadaveric spasm does. It's forensically sound evidence that Kurt was alive and squeezing the gun barrel at the exact moment the gun was discharged. I can PM you web links
TestMeatDollSteak 5 months ago
Cadaveric spasm was something Hartshorne came up with to try and explain away questions about the way the gun was on Kurt's body. Courtney cleverly destroyed the body and won't show the public the autopsy report so people like Testmeat can go on putting the false idea of cadaveric spasm out there.
profaneoneohone 5 months ago
@profaneoneohone No, that's idiotic and paranoid. If Hartshorne were going to lie about something, why not simply deny the morphine level? It was unofficially leaked, so it would've been far easier for him to lie about that than to make up the cadaveric spasm diagnosis, if his intention were to be dishonest. You're on the lunatic fringe of this whole discussion, you think everything that points to suicide was completely fabricated by Courtney Love. You're a massive, massive idiot.
TestMeatDollSteak 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
The NSA (national security agency) has made claims that they caused Kurt Kobain's death. They claim that he was a targeted individual and they tortured and harassed him with satellites. They caused him severe stomach problems and agony by aiming at his stomach. They talked inside his head with SETI technology and caused microwave exposure. They threatned him not to tell anyone or they would suffer the same fate. They caused so much agony until he took his life.
Katienelson30 5 months ago
Dammit Kurt, I wished you never had a gun.
Stryker1501 6 months ago
Kurt Cobain was an hero....
dezradeathkill 6 months ago
'My favorite color is red like the bloodshed from Kurt Cobains head when he shot himself dead" -Eminem (Cum on Everybody)
bmatthews3 6 months ago
IF KURT WANTED TO COMMITE SUSIDE HE WOULD OF IN FRANCE !!!! THERE WAS SOME ONE ELES (COURNTY LOVE DOD IT ) KURT WOULD NEVER RETIARE ! FOR SOME ODD RESON HE DIED AT 27 JUST LIKE OTHER FAMOUES PPL DID ... COURNTY JUST WANTED ALL THE & FOR HER & FRANCIES BEAN ....... SO HOW DID THAT WORK OUT NOW YOU HAVE ALL THE & IN THE WORLD & YOU ARE STILL FIGHTING FOR FULL COSTDOY OF FRANICES BEAN ... WAHTS UP W. THAT ?
arbutus15904 6 months ago
@arbutus15904 geez learn to spell and put together sentences. you honestly need to be more educated in his death before spouting off multiple false statements. He would have killed himself in France? When was he in France? He attempted suicide in Rome in March 94. Plus, the reason he didn't die is because someone found him while he was in the early stages of overdosing and he was rushed to a hospital. France? what the fuck? And Courtney wanted what? His money? yea ok that seems logical.
steve05030 5 months ago
I hate that motherfucker at 4:03.
iluvnirvana13 6 months ago
Thank god kurt died. The world needed REAL music like the backstreet boys and n'sync. .
JeweyLewis 6 months ago
@JeweyLewis go die. no wait dont... i wanna know if u think that today's music is better because if u say retarded shit like u just said i wont kill u.... ill just sell u as a sex slave to a foreign country after pouring sulfuric acid over ur face and pissing on your mother's grave. RIP KURT COBAIN
nickDv1996 6 months ago
@nickDv1996 NICKLEBACK IS WAY BETTER THAN NIRVANA. WAAAAAAAY BETTER.
JeweyLewis 6 months ago
What the fuck! U must b on crack!!!!!!!
carolina8212 6 months ago
@JeweyLewis i detect a troll
ScotVideos 6 months ago
@ScotVideos speaking the truth isn't trolling gaytard.
JeweyLewis 6 months ago
@JeweyLewis U mad bro?
ScotVideos 6 months ago
He never said he was going to kill himself at 27, this is a lie.
poohpoohbox2 6 months ago
@poohpoohbox2 Did you know Kurt Cobain, or what he did or did not say to people in his lifetime? Maybe he said something like that to people, maybe he didn't. How could you possibly know? Besides, "fishhand360" was referencing famous people who died at that age, not claiming that Kurt ever said anything like that.
TestMeatDollSteak 6 months ago
The next ones
4 Jim Morrison Lead singer of one of the greatest rock bands ever
5 Kurt Cobain Lead singer and one of the best guitarist of all time and leader of one of the greatest rock bands ever
that is what I have herd about these 5
fishhand360 6 months ago