Our perceptions of our natural and social world has been shaped by the needs of the dominant political and economic interests,the GANGS OF CAPITALIST, Profit for a few is the driving force of our times, with their National Flags,Corporate Logos, Religious Dogmas,they divide to rule and dominate to PROFIT, The odious IDEOLOGY of the rulers has become the all embracing truth and common sense in a MARKET PLACE of dog eat dog of artificial scarcity and limits to our true creativities.
Zinn is a very intelligent man...but he doesn't mention that the job sector is suffering due to mechanization of jobs in the service sector, which is where the majority of our jobs are. We cannot thwart the progress of mechnization just to make up jobs for people.
Corporatacracy will use mechanization if full eventually. Where does that leave the people? Solution: thevenusproject (dot) com
Capitalism is the wage slavery of immense humanity in a politically manipulated,tyrannical MARKET MECHANISM of artificial scarcity to perpetuate the conditions of servitude and compliance in the interest of the OWNING/RULING CLASS. Capitalism in State dictatorship or Corporate Fascism modality is a monetary control,suppression and deception of the Working Class across the world. We need to reclaim our lives,our Planet for a world of cooperation for our common needs and well being.
Capitalism is the wage slavery of immense humanity in a politically manipulated,tyrannical MARKET MECHANISM of artificial scarcity to perpetuate the conditions of servitude and compliance in the interest of the OWNING/RULING CLASS. Capitalism in State dictatorship or Corporate Fascism modality is a monetary control,suppression and deception of the Working Class across the world. We need to reclaim our lives,our Planet for a world of cooperation for our common needs and well being.
You're so close Zinn. Big government will always be ruled by those who have the most clout. I will never be in the service of the "people." Free markets don't work because the rich always uses the state to support them.
zinn is wrong on a few points. Number 1 is the government cannot create anything. The jobs created in the 30's trained farmers into indutrial workers, to the benefit of the corporations. The infastructure the WPA built was done so using "new deal" created slaves. You are not very likely to train computer programmers into road builders. I would like to know how Zinn defines rich.....i suspect it to be somebody with 2 pair of shoes.
I would make it a nation wide law mandatory in adjusting all home mortgages to increase there amortizations from 50 to 100 years, and not hold people captive by stringent penalties to pay down or payout there principle if they are locked in. Banks draw up mortgages so people can fail, not to help them and there families.
The real estate bubble was created by financial institutes, with irresponsible financing (loose money).
Debt swaps, ponzi schemes, lack of outside regulation with teeth & transparency, as well as offshore money havens has crippled the financial world & economies.
Zinn nails it by stating 700 billion should have been allocated to those families with mortgages in crises of loosing their homes, instead of initiating banking welfare. The new banking welfare law passed & given by Barak, Dem.. & Rep.. oligarchs, to the 'business as usual Fed Reserve' encourages profitable foreclosures.
Since our lost of this great man, Howard Zinn, I have been watching videos like this or reading his writings. This has revived my interest in history and current events. I hope I am not the only one. Howard Zinn ... RIP
I agree on the bail out ( a fifth grader could figure out that is wrong) I disagree with his theory on how to fix it. Take other peoples money and give it to the poor. To bad a big chunk of that money comes from the middle class people whom are working check to check. Middle class gets no bail outs. Make to much for social welfair and Gov hand outs. It's only going to hurt the middle class while boosting the poor slightly. While the rich remain rich.
Very true. Plus, he seems to ignore how governments produce nothing but monopolies, since it is predicated and maintained on extortion and regulating free association and entrepreneurship. Therefore, it is absurd to think that governments "create jobs."
They have the highest taxes on the rich in the world.
As a result they are the wealthiest and most equal populations on the planet.
Innovative, highly skilled with the best standards of living.
It is estimated that if the USA taxed the same as the EU, Every working and middle class American would be $8,000 a year better off (12k during Bush years)
Specifically Denmark, Norway, Sweden.. but it is a spectrum right across Europe, and indeed Japan is another good example.
During it's '10 year slowdown' unemployment did not rise, they increased pensions, introduced Art into the science curriculum; how brilliant is that? It has increased it's innovative capability.
and kept education, quality of life and a skill base as a priority
This means that now, Japan is not a wasteland of unemployable morons and obscenely unequal.
Manure is no good all in one place, in fact it stinks.
Vectoring towards equality does not mean communism, the economies I mention incude Switzerland. no poverty, they simply have a standard below which people do not fall (unless they want to).
I have a friend from Switzerland named Mano. He says it is possible to live without working at all comfortably which alot of people do. Manure stinks good one!
Japan are you nuts have you ever been there they are packed in like sardines, have the highest suicide rates and inept police force that focus on strong arm tactics instead of actual police work. Along with other social(medical system and child abuse) and economic( economy shrinking 1.2% in 2008 and 5.0% in 2009.and inadequate natural resources) problems. I have relatives in Japan and have been there twice. It's not all that great.
If there could be a peaceful revolution resulting in a major shift of wealth away from the top for a change.. the way Howard suggests in this videoI... then I welcome it. But if those who have ripped off our society get a few bruises and beatings. I welcome that too
A peaceful revolution did just happen. The supreme court (5-4) just handed over everything to the top corporations of what used to be our country. And not a single shot was fired.
The bankers have been and still are trying to squeeze every last drop of wealth out of the masses. They've bought the politicians. The people are effectively neutered.
Mr. Zinn's ideas could work, but I don't think it will happen in the US anytime soon. The influence exerted by the very rich on politics prevents any real solution. Open class warfare may be in the near future. Most Americans are distracted now, but things will eventually be bad enough to spark a serious backlash.
Unfortunately, that is the way of the world. And it's been like that since the beginning of time. Of course, historians like Marx/Engels knew that. The only people in human history to not have to deal with that were the people of the tribal civilizations. For thousands of years, they lived together in a "Utopian" egalitarian society.
BIG GOVERNMENT IS OUR ONLY HOPE, OUR ONLY SOLUTION! FUCK CAPITALISM! Government is THE PEOPLE! They represent THE PEOPLE! Or at least they're supposed to!
Enough with the suicides & the family break-ups & the divorces & the imperialism & the bombing & raping & looting that is capitalism! ENOUGH! It's the devil's road to hell! The pits of hell! Capitalism, based on egoism, is Hell on Earth!
How about, this...we need people to make sure people aren't steeling bikes from bike stands...so we pay citizens a fair wage to work shifts to watch over bike stands in public places...maybe the goverment could issue bikes to people ( or completely electric cars) interested in conserving oil and environmentally concerned...
Having had my bike stolen recently, that's a great idea. A lot of people won't cycle into work because they know there is a large risk of having their bike stolen. If we're serious about reducing traffic, then this needs to be done.
Thanks, I also have been jostling around ideas about a public electric car program (not hybrid but total electric), re-balancing of work hours and scheduling so that people get paid more and then have more time to keep other things in life balanced..living wages...I have a few ideas that I hope to get to places where they could be heard and taken seriously maybe improved..we need more creativity and imagination in dealing with social and environmental problems I think..thanks!
To put it bluntly we are going to have to end the phenomenon of wealth...some how place limits on the capacity for wealth to be concentrated in one place, put a ceiling on how rich individuals and groups can get, find ways to let the money be distributed more fairly throughout humanity, People who defend class and wealth forget that we are all connected, a lot of people are doing a lot of work and they see only a small portion of fruit of their labor...The rich do no not want to let it go
Howard Zinns book "A power governments cannot suppress" has truly changed my life and I would recoment to anyone who is slightly interested in Zinn or American history
The free market did not get us in this bind. A corrupt government controlled by the privately-owned and fraudulent Federal Reserve got us here. The bailouts are a blatant robbery of the future wealth of this country, taking it out of the hands of the people and giving it to the grubby claws of the elite wealth bankers. The entire governmental process has become corrupted by the power of the bankers - who, by the way, completely own Obama.
what you've done is restated the definition of the free market. corrupt government and private corporations ARE the free market. the "free market" has always and only been a parasitic minority harvesting wealth from the labor of others at the barrel of a gun.
That is not true. A free market is one with which the government does not interfere. However, you a suggesting that corrupt government interference is the free market. You may want to brush up on the fundamentals. Perhaps your solution is socialism which ALWAYS ends in more corruption and the destruction of society where we will all have a gun to our heads to give up our earnings to spread the wealth. Haven't you learned the lessons from history?
The absurdity of this notion of "free market" capitalism is the idea that human greed will keep itself in check in a regulatory vacuum! The most basic fact is that human nature will manifest itself no matter the framework. Horrible atrocities have been committed by governments of the extreme left and the extreme right.
Besides - what's so terrible about wealth being more evenly distributed? Though it's only an ideal, it would be better for the state of the masses than the sick concentration
of wealth that we see now. The lessons of history? How about the Gilded Age, Robber Barons & mega-monopolies, & the extreme disparity of wealth leading up to the stock market crash of '29 & the Great Depression?
What we've got here is the same old crap playing itself out again. People will always find a way to manipulate whatever system they're in.
I do agree about the evils of the Federal Reserve, and that Obama is owned by the bankers and corporate powers. Same-old same-old there.
SayYes, since "human nature will manifest itself no matter the framework", then it really doesn't matter which system we have, right?
I agree that it is sick that the government seems to exist to create regulations which end up further concentrating wealth. That is wrong. It is not a free market.
But, who do you think should distribute this wealth you talk of? Do you think they should use force? Perhaps guns? Perhaps they should shoot and kill anyone who refuses? Redistribution = violence
And apalling concentration of wealth = suffering. It's just a sad state of affairs, and I do not for a moment presume to know the answer. If only I did!
It does seem to me, however, that both extremes must be avoided. We can neither tolerate a forced distribution of wealth nor a terrible concentration at the top. Either is bad. It seems that if I've read my history correctly, it's pretty cyclical. But as long as this republicrat trickle-down financial theory holds sway, we're all screwed.
I agree that concentration of wealth equals suffering... but the free market DID NOT cause this concentration of wealth, period.Government supported monopolies enable this kind of madness.That is all government really does: it supports "special interests" in order to take from the masses to give to a few (who give to politicians).Occasionally it gives a small fraction of a percent back to the people as a little carrot so it can claim that it isn't corrupt.We continue to trust corrupt politicians
I'll grant you that. I guess I just wonder - if the market was truly free, would it bring out the best? Or would greed infect it as well? Is a truly free market just an ideal? Greed-fueled corruption is the big problem. The Republicans & Democrats are just wings of the same class of wealthy elites. As long as there is money & power, the cycle will continue.
Funny thing is, I think we're more on the same page than we realize...
Since I am not aware of a free market occurring, we can only theorize about what being free would be like. Mises(dot)org is a good place to get literature on this topic. I agree about Republicans and Democrats... it is all a big scam, as is Socialism, Communism, Fascism, etc. There is always a ruling class in these systems. A free market would theoretically prevent an indefinite ruling class.
I am reading about another system called Technocracy... pretty interesting though I find challenges
I've been hearing some discussion of technocracy & other forms of governance on campus, but haven't checked them out myself yet. Guess I should get on that...
And you're right about ideals vs. practice. Communism in its benevolent, intended form could be a beneficial system of government, but we know how that turns out in the real world... Socialsim tries to be the best of both worlds but, like an all-season tire, can't handle extremes worth a tinker's damn. I swear, I'm gonna go off-grid!
Me too! In all actuality, the system that I want is anarchy. Anarchy actually is a free market... without any government intervention... You should check out stefbot channel... His stuff really makes sense to me and should require the least amount of effort to get there... especially in light of the self-destruct nature of our current corrupt system.
All that said, it's all academic. The system is not managed by intellectuals, but rather by sheep and rulers :(
That's very true! And, I'll check out that channel. The thing that strikes me the most is how we started out seemingly opposed and ended-up realizing that we agree on many things. Funny how that works-out. Shame this kind of thing doesn't happen more often!
Agreed! On youtube I think it's sometimes easy to go into a discussion assuming the other person is, to put it nicely, challenged... But, once you find that someone is actually open to other ideas rather than simply pushing some kind of brainwashing dogma, then it's a nice surprise!
And I do think that 'challeneged' is spot on! Far too many people only seem able to regurgitate what they hear, which is often what they WANT to hear - a reinforcement of what they already believe.
That's a shame because it's so intellectually stunting. In a world where the rich and powerful would prefer us to be sheep, the greatest power a person can possess is the ability to think independently and logically. Next would be the ability to discuss issues peacefully and with an open mind!
Unfortunately, our 12 year training program was modeled after Prussia's according to some. It seems like the program was created to make people good at following orders and consuming... critical thinking doesn't seem to be the product. In fact, I think some are still capable of critical thinking in spite of our education program... definitely not because of it.
I remember hearing something similar, and there certainly does seem to be a Teutonic be-a-good-obedient-citizen quality to it. The whole thing was put into place primarily to create a more competitive labor force by educating the masses, and teaching critical thinking skills to the working classes wouldn't be in the interests of the rich and powerful! Today, the system is still about job training for the current "capatalist" system.
Exactly - and I appreciate you using quotes around "capitalist" system because that is only what they want us to believe it is. It is pretty easy to prove that our system is fascism. The fact that everyone calls it capitalism (i.e. free market) does not make it so. I believe it is more of a Corrupt Crony Capitalistic Fascists Command-Control Oligarchical system... perhaps I could add a few cuss words in their for good measure :)
You're welcome, haha. The quotes are completely appropriate. Saying that we have a truly capitalist system would be as pointless as claiming that the U.S. has never engaged in any imperialist activities. Reality is reality. And I appreciate your proper use of the term 'fascism'. Although traditional fascism as represented by the nazis and their ilk was ultra-right nationalism, the term can apply clear across the spectrum. We just suffer from a highly corporatized version in the U.S.
I agree completely. This is why I currently conclude that less government would be better. The bigger government becomes, the more fascist we become and the worse our problems get. Without government involvement, the current financial collapse and crisis would have been impossible. They are completely responsible as they were supposed to look out for our best interest but instead led us like sheep to the slaughter while the richest get richer and the politicians' pockets get lined.
In an ideal world, I wouldn't be opposed to a large government if it worked for the people. But, it doesn't seem to work that way. I do wonder though if sometimes a strong, central government has actually been a positive, particularly when change is needed long before it would happen organically at the local level, such as the end of slavery, or for a modern national defense. Then again, I suppose these things could be accomplished with a gov't considerably smaller than what we have now...
Anything is possible... however, to my knowledge, the old adage "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" has proven to be true. In every historical example I have read, the more powerful a government becomes, the worse it gets for the people (who it tries to convince it is there to help). Most problems I learn about are actually caused by government. And, who is fit to trust with power over you anyway? Who is not corruptible? How do you trust someone with absolute power?
The point being that people are so easily corrupted. Big government simply presents those in power with a nearly irresistible temptation: a vehicle for their ambitions. The heart of the dilemma of governing is human nature itself, and what a bugger that is!
As for me, I live simply and inexpensively. I will not subscribe to the siren song of the "American Dream" and enslave myself to money for decades. I save, & plan to buy land somewhere private & pristine, and go off-grid, as I mentioned.
I feel exactly the same way. I want to be off the grid and off the radar. I did spread myself out a bit with real estate... it can be an entanglement and is truly a liability. I knew that going into it but it is part of my plan to get to the point of moving off the grid as well without debt. I am frugal and am well aware of the evils of debt-slavery.
Re: gov't... the people you can trust don't aspire to have power over you.
Ah - I was thinking about it another way. Yes, that's true about who can be trusted...
Good insight.
I'm always afraid people will take my 'off-the-grid' talk and color me a far-right nutjob with conspiratorial delusions and an assault rifle fetish. That's not the case, but I can relate to the spirit of those folks. I just want to live as freely as I can, in a place that's all mine. And, when I think about a couple billion more people by the time I'm ready to retire... I need lebensraum! lol
panopticon7, this is not correct. A free market would not have ANY involvement from the government outside of protecting the liberties of the individual. What you described is the furthest thing from a free market. It is a command-control system where the politicians serve the elite's best interest to the detriment of the people. Government action interferes with the market, keeping it from being free, so that it benefits the wealthy. Republicans and Democrats are the same in this regard.
@panopticon7 - No. A government-mandated monopoly, which they enforce by the use of guns, it not free market. Please go back to school and learn to use your brain.
The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.
@666lordbyron666 - you are either a liar or a dupe. It is a privately-owned, profit-making institution. It is made up of regional Federal Reserve banks which are owned by banks in the Federal Reserve system. Do your own research. Start with Creature From Jeckyll Island... then verify the sources. You should try reading history before making mis-informed comments.
Get to Ron Paul's explanation in the video (watch?v=bdR1kpO9sc8). It is for profit. And, it is privately-owned. Albeit, it was "Created" by the government. Then learn what G. Edward Griffin exposed in his research of its history.
@magichandpuppet capital and speculation controls the economy, its no freer than slavery. The federal reserve is "no more federal than frederal express", it should not be controlled by bankers, it should be a democratically elected position.
@thefredsays - agree about the Federal Reserve. As all politicians are corrupt, I do not trust them (or a new "democracy") in control of money. Money should be created by the free market as was intended by the framers of our Constitutional Republic. It's fine for government to create money as long as it competes in a free market. As the Federal Reserve is a government-mandated monopoly - a monopoly enforced and protected with government guns and violence - it is not free market - It is slavery
Big government is NOT,NOT a good thing!! As corrupt as the political system is, it would only allow the tax payers to be screwed even more! If you had a bank vault and you let 10 people have access to it, when money goes missing you only have 10 people to question! It's the same with government, the more people, the less likely you are going to catch the wrong doers! Or more accurately, the dickheads ripping us off!
I was thinking that the Judeo-Christian tradition is to encourage reproduction by idiots and then make useless idiotic communist-sounding arguments in a doomed effort to prevent the elite from convincing excess idiots to conquer someone.
It don't make sense to bailout corporations that move production abroad. They themselves rendered the very consumers of their goods to low wage, service and retail employees. It's their own greedy fault nobody buys their $20k cars. They traded the (you pay me, I pay you) circle, for a linear (you can't afford me, I can't afford you) clusterfuk.
He's not talking about left or right. He is simply explaining why he thinks the bail out doesn't work. Some conservatives support the bailout and some do not, same for liberals. This isn't about left or right, it's about informing.
Not only the UK, Japan and the US.. of course Canada being the lap dog it is is planning a bail out of the auto-industry now... It is my sincere hope that the monetary system crumbles like the facade truly it is.
We need another "New Deal"...by the end of 2009 this will be painfully obvious. Current unemployment numbers are understated. Will Obama do this? Is he "Rooseveltian?" History repeats itself. I hope he is the man for these times because we are in deep doo doo
Federal Arts Program could also be subject to government censorship, the Living Newspaper troupe was shut down for producing a play critical of Mussolini invasion of Ethiopia (remember, in the 1930s the fascists were thought of a-okay)
Its scary how much Zinn and I share the same views but I disgree with him on the free market. Now, I have my axes with the Free market theory but one cannot say that it was the Free Market that failed. The Free Market wasn't allowed to be Free. This problem was created by the FED, The FED and Bussiness together in cooperation. That is a problem and people are focusing on the syptoms and not he diease. The diease is unchecked government power by the people.
He's saying the gov. should give money to people to pay off their houses. This is a contradicting and flawed argument. People complain about baling out banks for their bad lending choices, but then they want to bail out people for making bad borrowing choices. The right regulation wasn't in place; that's what happened. We should learn from this and implement good regulation. Some things causing this crisis like credit default swaps are fairly new and people now know its potential problems
John Kennedy lost his life for not playing ball with these guys. The Federal Reserve is the real problem, that will never be addressed. America gave it's country away in 1913, and today we see the amplified result.
Plenty Americans know these econ policies damage us, but don't care because they benefit. They are traitors. No political/economic system can survive an uneducated complaisant, apathetic and greedy populace. We need a radical paradigm shift, the beginning of which is represented by the Obama campaign. But changing the president is only the start. We need to purge the system of usury parasites, nurture and protect the working classes, rebuild manufacturing infrastructure and impose tariffs.
It is nice to be a billionaire. Even if you are a dumbase and make a big lost, the government will bail you out. You never need to face to the outcome of your own mistakes.
P.S: what you are suggesting is too sensible. And it doesn't prevent the suffering of billionaires. Think of the rich people who can no longer afford their second private jet.
I dont agree with zinn that real big government is the answer. Big federal government gave us the Patriot Act, NSA, renedition, gun control, Abortion, and special interest programs. I'm not for that. Just because this hypocritical adminstration hands over 700 billion of my tax money over to corrupt banks doesnt excuse big fed.
I think there could be a good argument for small government and for big government depending on the situation.
I think we get too wrapped up in ideology/politics (more/less taxes, big/small government, regulation/deregulation) instead of looking critically at what *works* and what *doesn't work*.
Using simple success metrics that can be evaluated, studied, and then refined vs. the constant emotional/ideological decisions would go a long way towards a system that works well for all.
wait didn't government get us in this problem in the first place now their trying to get us out! oh well! geez i wonder when people realize that the federal reserve is private and way more powerfull than the federal government! in fact they caused the great depression even Ben Bernankee agreed! Tinkering with system won't work by creating big government there's gonna need 2 b major reforms 2 stop these thing from happening!
Zinn is talking sense! Did it WORK to have young people fight wars, instead of cultural & health activities? NO!!! Did it WORK to give people HIGH INTEREST LOANS, rather than "give-aways"? NO!!! Forget "Socialism", "Capitalism", & all the other clap-trap: DO WHAT WORKS - or die dummy!
What the US needs to do is Nationalize the single largest bank. Not bail it out, Buy it outright. Yes, the people inherit the debt, but now the bank belongs to the government. Other banks still exist to offer capitalist alternatives, but now there is ONE absolutely stable and strongly regulated bank that cannot collapse or become insolvent, a bank which is responsible to the people, which only makes sense because it's the peoples' money.
I disagree. I think the nation should have it's own bank and not bailout any bank. Let the CEO's of these banks fail like they are meant to do when they take on bad investments and bad risks. The new US Bank should be owned by the taxpayers with every one getting an equal share of this bank. Then let this bank be regulated with sound principles and regulations. Also, an independent agency to examine the bank every month to check to make certain the bank is balanced.
Where exactly are you doisagreeing with me? That's pretty much what I said. Rather than a bailout, the government should just buy the largest bank straight up, nationalizing it and making it a socialized bank, meaning, bank of the people, where every taxpayer is an investor and a shareholder.
I think you're a bit confused on what my position was, because we're both standing on the same side of the issue.
I don't think we should buy any bank. We should just open a new bank. The idea was developed by Plutsky. Watch video by khanacademy Bailout:14 possible solution. and his Bailout 15. The guy is a genius.
So this is Zinns idea of a free market...Rent controls, min wage, 50% tax rates, food and oil subsidies, subsidised housing through freddie, fannie and the CRA. This is the failure of socialism and crony capitalism, not the free market.
Socialism is a failed strategy that delivers poverty to all.
No, you're thinking of communism. Socialism has ALWAYS benefited the great majority.
Here in canada for example, take a look around. SOCIALIZED medicine. Not one single canadian in a century has ever lost their home because of medical bills. Not one, ever. Socialized Education (as the americans enjoy too), every child in the entire nation can go to school, regardless of income. Socialized postal services, the mail moves on.
This bailout is LITERALLY socialized profit loss. That's the bad kind
Socialism is a death cult feeding of the productive to support the unproductive. Socialized medicine is expensive (just calculate the tax required to serve each citizen) and leaves the recipients at the mercy of the government as when or if they get treatment. They ration the care through waiting lists in which people die.
The US is not a free market in health care it is a quasi govt health care system. The high cost is due to market distortions created by the govt such as restriction cross state competition.
Not true. Norway does a fantastic job and everyone is healthier and wealthier because of it. It also happens to be ironically one of the most expensive countries to live in. The difference between the CEO's pay and the lowest paid employee is smaller than any of the other western industrialized nations.
It's expensive mainly because of monetary inflation. If the money gained in value it wouldnt be quite as bad. But yes, the skandanavian countries seem to have the right idea, between Norway and Sweden. Unfortunately some of their policies infringe on personal freedom, so while they have among the highest standards of living in the world, they also have very high suicide rates. Then again, that could have something to do with the miserable weather and proximity to the north pole.
Lol, well I think suicide is predominantly culturally related. If you notice the Chinese lead the world in suicides however if you were to look up the countries with the most homicide rates you'd be impressed that Norway is closer to the bottom. So the reasoning goes if your boss pisses you off, then you either commit suicide or shoot the bastard. lol. The Chinese are more humble and think its an affront on them as oppose to the other guy. Therefore the Norwegians are similar in that regard.
Norway is a distributive society not a redistributive society based on is vast oil wealth. What has income inequality got to do with anything? Is it not more important that the average standard of living is higher and that there is the possibility to aspire to great wealth though merit? Measuring envy seems to me to be a completely corrupt measure of societal success.
Let's take our blood bank for instance. The CEO makes a hundred times what the guy that draws the blood makes. The CEO has no extraordinary qualifications other than being appointed via some political tie, perhaps related to a relative. Anyway the poor schmuck at the end and the bus that he works in is badly needed repair. I remember waiting during lunch hour and telling him that I can't donate blood if I'm going to be late. He shrugged his head in indifference.
The fundamental question is what is someones talents are worth to whom, not what they are being paid. If all involved in the transaction participate voluntarily then no moral code is broken. If there is either fraud, theft, or coercion involved in the trade then that is a separate issue. Involvement of politics is necessarily the involvement to coercion and most often theft (tax) to boot.
I find your lack of faith in socialization disturbing *darth vader throat grip for dramatic effect*.
First of all, countries with socialized medicine spend about half as much per person as the US.
Have you ever even tried the socialized medicine method? Tell you what, I'll tell you how much I pay annually in socialized health care costs. About $400. For the entire year. That's me, covered, for nearly every disease and ailment known to man, including most elective surgeries.
Not including frivelous cosmetic surgeries of course. No botox or nip n' tuck. But last year, I had a really bad ingrown toenail, so I went in. Didnt even have to make an appointment. Went in, waited in line for about an hour (More serious cases go to the front of the line, always. I dont know who told you people die in our waiting lines, probably Fox Noise, but they're liars. The only way that happens is if someone is misdiagnosed and erroneously placed on low priority). My toe's all better now
I didnt have to take out a cash advance on my paycheck or refinance my house. I went in, showed them my Social Health Care card, sat down, and was with a doctor in an hour. Had it been an emergency, I would have seen a doctor in about 20 minutes, because I live 20 minutes away from the hospital and that's about how long it takes for an ambulance to make the trip, and get me all registered and in the doctor's sight. 15 minutes speedy driving, 5 minutes from ambulance to hospital bed.
IN fact, do you know why our waiting lines are so long? BECAUSE EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY IS USING THE HOSPITAL SYSTEM!!!
You can sure as hell cut down on hospital waiting lines if only about half the people around you can actually afford to be there. That right there cuts the line in half.
But if you're the kind of person who can happily receive medical treatment knowing that somewhere out there there's someone who cant, because they cant afford it, then I'm sure this carries no weight with you
Me, on the other hand, I'm the generous sort. I'm perfectly willing to chip in on a community fund to pay for health care for people who arent me. I guess that's the fundamental difference between me and you, and people like you. The thought of paying for someone else's badly needed cancer treatment doesnt bother me at all. I'm sure the thought of parting with your hard-earned money for someone else's benefit is just gut-wrenching. Funny, most religious nation in NA, and so afraid of charity.
Amen. Compassion vs. Selfishness does seem to be at the heart of this (and most) matters.
I, too, am glad to help others. As long as I make a fair wage & can provide for myself, what does it hurt me to pay a bit of tax so others can be healthy & not suffer? The problem is that stagnant wages prevent people from properly providing for themselves, which breeds resentment of taxation. That's how the powers that be operate - keep us resentful and at each others throats, fighting for the scraps...
Waiting lines are a the government rationing your health care deciding who should live or die and which treatments to provide and which to with hold.
A free market is also an allocation system but one based on choice not theft an coercion...and no the US system is not a free market it is a government regulated industry...regulation means not free.
The US health care system doesn't work, and no one is denied access in public systems. By offering a public/private service those who can afford it can get out of the line by using private health care which will also shorten the waits for those receiving public health care.
That depends on the procedures your govt decides to make available to the public. They preserve limited health funds by restricting access to procedures.
Yes but you're forgetting one major factor. Republicans are cheap enough to take advantage of a system they don't like. They have no principles. You know those people they always talk about in the section 8s bleeding welfare dry. It's mostly them! They think everyone is selfish like they are which is why they always rail against government. Well guess what you're the problem fuckheads!
You really have no idea, do you? Just stop talking, save yourself a tiny scrap of dignity. The wait times in canada under a social health care system are comparable to those in the US, and are made inevitable by the volume of people using the system. The wait times in the US are LITERALLY from health insurance companies deciding whether their clients live or die. You have it completely ass backwards. PS: My taxes are not very high. I pay my $400 premium and i'm covered, nationwide, no hassle.
Seriously, take it from someone who is actually a patron of the system you dont even seem to understand, ok? Do you have any idea how much money you would pay, PERSONALLY, if you had a heart attack tomorrow? Do you know how much money I'd pay? Well in the US, about $50,000. Here in Canada, $400, same as every other year. What do you do if you have a heart attack and the ambulance drives you to a hospital not covered under your corporate insurance plan? Well, you pay. Me? I get treated.
You should just give up on your point right here, because there isn't a single argument you can make in favor of a privatized health care system in a wealthy industrialized country where more than 40% of the population is either uninsured or under-insured. It's a dead-end argument. The weight of the counter-argument crushes any pathetic attempt you come up with to justify a non-socialized health care system. Either you don't understand how it works, or you are stupid and/or selfish. That's it.
Hospital Bills in Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Cuba, and nearly every other industrialized nation on earth: Non-existent.
Socialized medicine removes profit from the equation, eliminates the need for health insurance companies to exist at all, trims excessive bureaucracy, and removes the need for doctors to consult with insurance adjusters entirely. This single-handedly eliminates more than 50% of US health insurance costs.
Without the costs associated with profit, bureaucracy, insurance adjustment, advertisements, CEO pay, office buildings, and all the costs entailed in owning and operating an insurance company, the per-capita health care cost in the US would be cut by more than half. Yes, more than half of the money you pay into your health care system currently goes into the pockets of insurance companies, NOT doctors and nurses.
How can you possibly be stupid enough to think that spending more is cheaper?
Unless your answer is "I'm sorry, I was wrong, I see the truth now" dont even bother responding. Every argument you can possibly make in favor of privatized health care has been debunked in every industrialized nation on earth EXCEPT THE US! Everything Fox News has told you about the evils of socialized medicine is known to be false outside the US. Individual service might be a tiny bit better for the person who can pay, but for the other 40% of the population, there is no service at all!
You left our your tax contribution. So is $400 plus the average tax per capita component required to support the health system. Doesn't look so cheap now does it?
Your not including the per capita tax take required to fund health care. If you contribute less than the average person you should consider yourself a thief. If you pay more you should consider yourself a victim of thieves.
Etimos only focuses on what is seen. What is not seen is that their economy could probably be more efficient or wealthy if it didn't waste so many resource on healthcare. Also, Norway had a lot wealth it accumulated throughout the centuries to spend on its social programs. Lastly, the USA is not a free market!!!!! Zinn is an idiot for claiming that it is while simultaneously admitting that there is a big government.
Norway has not saved wealth throughout the centuries. I am from Norway, and after the second world war it had extreme debt and no basically nothing except natural recourses. It started to become wealthy only after the 70's, when oil was becoming its main commodity.
Well as a donor I and a lot of others I've talked to felt cheated. The blood bank's CEO didn't give a damn as to the quality of the bus and its environment; or the people they hired who were in charge of handling the blood products. The end result is less people will donate blood which will affect the community in the end. Take some of the profits that the CEO makes and put it in better wages and bus conditions for the donors.
I never cease to be entertained by Internet Economists who think they know the secrets to make capitalism "work" because they've absorbed laissez-faire drivel.
The problem is capitalism. It is inherently divisive and corrupting. There is no way to make it "work" in an equitable way. But of course its advocates aren't interested in equity -- and that's their dirty little secret.
the secret to a failing free market is more free market, and you know what they say about someone who repeats the same process over and over expecting a different outcome...
Howard Zinn made a great contribution to the perspective on American history, but he doesn't know much about economics. I don't like the bailout, but not for the reasons that Zinn stated.
l2econ people
TheEthanwashere 7 months ago
Honestly anyone that calls themselves a socialist should learn economics, nordic model>
TheEthanwashere 7 months ago
I wonder how trickle-up poverty would work out instead. Supply-Side Keynesianism is not the voluntary market.
qwertypoiu4321 9 months ago
An imbalance between rich and poor is the oldest and most fatal ailment of all republics.
Plutarch
Said 2000 years ago.
pvisserandorra 11 months ago
and anyone youve ever met in your pitiful life
johnniefive80 1 year ago
@ASentinel2 he was a better man you and
johnniefive80 1 year ago
Good...finally...he's dead.
Now rest in piss...
ASentinel2 1 year ago
How the fuck is what this man said sacrilegious??????????
TheAntiFascist2010 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Our perceptions of our natural and social world has been shaped by the needs of the dominant political and economic interests,the GANGS OF CAPITALIST, Profit for a few is the driving force of our times, with their National Flags,Corporate Logos, Religious Dogmas,they divide to rule and dominate to PROFIT, The odious IDEOLOGY of the rulers has become the all embracing truth and common sense in a MARKET PLACE of dog eat dog of artificial scarcity and limits to our true creativities.
arzoyan 1 year ago
Zinn is a very intelligent man...but he doesn't mention that the job sector is suffering due to mechanization of jobs in the service sector, which is where the majority of our jobs are. We cannot thwart the progress of mechnization just to make up jobs for people.
Corporatacracy will use mechanization if full eventually. Where does that leave the people? Solution: thevenusproject (dot) com
blaziermissy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Capitalism is the wage slavery of immense humanity in a politically manipulated,tyrannical MARKET MECHANISM of artificial scarcity to perpetuate the conditions of servitude and compliance in the interest of the OWNING/RULING CLASS. Capitalism in State dictatorship or Corporate Fascism modality is a monetary control,suppression and deception of the Working Class across the world. We need to reclaim our lives,our Planet for a world of cooperation for our common needs and well being.
arzoyan 1 year ago
Capitalism is the wage slavery of immense humanity in a politically manipulated,tyrannical MARKET MECHANISM of artificial scarcity to perpetuate the conditions of servitude and compliance in the interest of the OWNING/RULING CLASS. Capitalism in State dictatorship or Corporate Fascism modality is a monetary control,suppression and deception of the Working Class across the world. We need to reclaim our lives,our Planet for a world of cooperation for our common needs and well being.
arzoyan 1 year ago 2
capitalism must fall because it works just as good as communism it doesn't work at all.
Mailb0x1 1 year ago
You're so close Zinn. Big government will always be ruled by those who have the most clout. I will never be in the service of the "people." Free markets don't work because the rich always uses the state to support them.
efrem1 1 year ago 2
zinn is wrong on a few points. Number 1 is the government cannot create anything. The jobs created in the 30's trained farmers into indutrial workers, to the benefit of the corporations. The infastructure the WPA built was done so using "new deal" created slaves. You are not very likely to train computer programmers into road builders. I would like to know how Zinn defines rich.....i suspect it to be somebody with 2 pair of shoes.
anolmec 1 year ago
Or they could just not give money to anyone, and avoid inflation of the dollar and removing the purchasing power of the middle class.
enomarekim 1 year ago
I would make it a nation wide law mandatory in adjusting all home mortgages to increase there amortizations from 50 to 100 years, and not hold people captive by stringent penalties to pay down or payout there principle if they are locked in. Banks draw up mortgages so people can fail, not to help them and there families.
The real estate bubble was created by financial institutes, with irresponsible financing (loose money).
2/B
Aegialeus 1 year ago
Debt swaps, ponzi schemes, lack of outside regulation with teeth & transparency, as well as offshore money havens has crippled the financial world & economies.
Zinn nails it by stating 700 billion should have been allocated to those families with mortgages in crises of loosing their homes, instead of initiating banking welfare. The new banking welfare law passed & given by Barak, Dem.. & Rep.. oligarchs, to the 'business as usual Fed Reserve' encourages profitable foreclosures.
1/B
Aegialeus 1 year ago
Since our lost of this great man, Howard Zinn, I have been watching videos like this or reading his writings. This has revived my interest in history and current events. I hope I am not the only one. Howard Zinn ... RIP
burtpelt 1 year ago
It can't because the piper is the fed.
LiamYumHome 1 year ago
Again another non economist putting his two cents in. Zinn is a historian not an economist. He should stick to what he knows.
jsh78mang 1 year ago
@jsh78mang
In some ways he is right. The bailout is extortion. It's take resources, stolen by force, and giving to institutions which are too big to exist.
Gettinghitonattheban 1 year ago
I agree on the bail out ( a fifth grader could figure out that is wrong) I disagree with his theory on how to fix it. Take other peoples money and give it to the poor. To bad a big chunk of that money comes from the middle class people whom are working check to check. Middle class gets no bail outs. Make to much for social welfair and Gov hand outs. It's only going to hurt the middle class while boosting the poor slightly. While the rich remain rich.
jsh78mang 1 year ago
@jsh78mang
Very true. Plus, he seems to ignore how governments produce nothing but monopolies, since it is predicated and maintained on extortion and regulating free association and entrepreneurship. Therefore, it is absurd to think that governments "create jobs."
Gettinghitonattheban 1 year ago 2
@jsh78mang
You are wrong,
Consider the economies of Northern Europe.
They have the highest taxes on the rich in the world.
As a result they are the wealthiest and most equal populations on the planet.
Innovative, highly skilled with the best standards of living.
It is estimated that if the USA taxed the same as the EU, Every working and middle class American would be $8,000 a year better off (12k during Bush years)
Trickle down is inequality and neglect.
Tax the rich back to Earth orbit.
marsCubed 1 year ago
You can't compare apples to oranges. The economies are to diffrent even among the 27 countries of Northern Europe. Be more specific about which area.
jsh78mang 1 year ago
@jsh78mang
Specifically Denmark, Norway, Sweden.. but it is a spectrum right across Europe, and indeed Japan is another good example.
During it's '10 year slowdown' unemployment did not rise, they increased pensions, introduced Art into the science curriculum; how brilliant is that? It has increased it's innovative capability.
and kept education, quality of life and a skill base as a priority
This means that now, Japan is not a wasteland of unemployable morons and obscenely unequal.
marsCubed 1 year ago
Manure is no good all in one place, in fact it stinks.
Vectoring towards equality does not mean communism, the economies I mention incude Switzerland. no poverty, they simply have a standard below which people do not fall (unless they want to).
a safety net.
have a look at;
v=EjyxGq3O5Gs
marsCubed 1 year ago
I have a friend from Switzerland named Mano. He says it is possible to live without working at all comfortably which alot of people do. Manure stinks good one!
jsh78mang 1 year ago
Japan are you nuts have you ever been there they are packed in like sardines, have the highest suicide rates and inept police force that focus on strong arm tactics instead of actual police work. Along with other social(medical system and child abuse) and economic( economy shrinking 1.2% in 2008 and 5.0% in 2009.and inadequate natural resources) problems. I have relatives in Japan and have been there twice. It's not all that great.
jsh78mang 1 year ago
RIP Zinn... I wish that for everyone of you that died, 10 more would be reborn...
cdvcarthasis 1 year ago
i got about one more year to go....then if this shit still aint rtght....im going to canada.
TheGrassrootsallianc 2 years ago
RIP Howard Zinn.
imadizzy1 2 years ago
the solution is obvious.. kill the super rich!!!! KILL THE FUCKERS!!!!!!
joegreaser 2 years ago
@joegreaser that's kind of what happened in the French revolution.
HandicapReborn 2 years ago
Too bad it won't happen here... Farewell Howard Zinn
joegreaser 2 years ago
What if a peaceful revolution happened though?
HandicapReborn 2 years ago
If there could be a peaceful revolution resulting in a major shift of wealth away from the top for a change.. the way Howard suggests in this videoI... then I welcome it. But if those who have ripped off our society get a few bruises and beatings. I welcome that too
joegreaser 2 years ago
A peaceful revolution did just happen. The supreme court (5-4) just handed over everything to the top corporations of what used to be our country. And not a single shot was fired.
qigong1001 1 year ago
yeah the left needs to get more militant.
maxjamesfashion 2 years ago
The bankers have been and still are trying to squeeze every last drop of wealth out of the masses. They've bought the politicians. The people are effectively neutered.
Mr. Zinn's ideas could work, but I don't think it will happen in the US anytime soon. The influence exerted by the very rich on politics prevents any real solution. Open class warfare may be in the near future. Most Americans are distracted now, but things will eventually be bad enough to spark a serious backlash.
fightforyourrights9 2 years ago 14
@fightforyourrights9 That might change, at least a little bit, with this new movement in Wisconsin.
majordbag2 10 months ago
@fightforyourrights9 IT'S A CONSPURACYY!!!
kidkong584 7 months ago
Rich get richer and the poor get poorer!
rickydepths1 2 years ago
That's how it goes
deterdetsamma2 2 years ago
Comment removed
Raford146 2 years ago
Unfortunately, that is the way of the world. And it's been like that since the beginning of time. Of course, historians like Marx/Engels knew that. The only people in human history to not have to deal with that were the people of the tribal civilizations. For thousands of years, they lived together in a "Utopian" egalitarian society.
Raford146 2 years ago
The rabbi is going to tell you the bailout is great ....because all my Jewish banker friend got all the money. ;)
MustacheVerra 2 years ago
BIG GOVERNMENT IS OUR ONLY HOPE, OUR ONLY SOLUTION! FUCK CAPITALISM! Government is THE PEOPLE! They represent THE PEOPLE! Or at least they're supposed to!
Enough with the suicides & the family break-ups & the divorces & the imperialism & the bombing & raping & looting that is capitalism! ENOUGH! It's the devil's road to hell! The pits of hell! Capitalism, based on egoism, is Hell on Earth!
nico3212 2 years ago
How is the government supposed to create jobs?
paganiniGOGO 2 years ago
How about, this...we need people to make sure people aren't steeling bikes from bike stands...so we pay citizens a fair wage to work shifts to watch over bike stands in public places...maybe the goverment could issue bikes to people ( or completely electric cars) interested in conserving oil and environmentally concerned...
catgumart 2 years ago
Having had my bike stolen recently, that's a great idea. A lot of people won't cycle into work because they know there is a large risk of having their bike stolen. If we're serious about reducing traffic, then this needs to be done.
johnlepo 2 years ago
Thanks, I also have been jostling around ideas about a public electric car program (not hybrid but total electric), re-balancing of work hours and scheduling so that people get paid more and then have more time to keep other things in life balanced..living wages...I have a few ideas that I hope to get to places where they could be heard and taken seriously maybe improved..we need more creativity and imagination in dealing with social and environmental problems I think..thanks!
catgumart 2 years ago
Where are we going to get the money for that?
danberkeley 2 years ago
To put it bluntly we are going to have to end the phenomenon of wealth...some how place limits on the capacity for wealth to be concentrated in one place, put a ceiling on how rich individuals and groups can get, find ways to let the money be distributed more fairly throughout humanity, People who defend class and wealth forget that we are all connected, a lot of people are doing a lot of work and they see only a small portion of fruit of their labor...The rich do no not want to let it go
catgumart 2 years ago
Howard Zinns book "A power governments cannot suppress" has truly changed my life and I would recoment to anyone who is slightly interested in Zinn or American history
mjg420mjg 3 years ago
The free market did not get us in this bind. A corrupt government controlled by the privately-owned and fraudulent Federal Reserve got us here. The bailouts are a blatant robbery of the future wealth of this country, taking it out of the hands of the people and giving it to the grubby claws of the elite wealth bankers. The entire governmental process has become corrupted by the power of the bankers - who, by the way, completely own Obama.
magichandpuppet 3 years ago 9
what you've done is restated the definition of the free market. corrupt government and private corporations ARE the free market. the "free market" has always and only been a parasitic minority harvesting wealth from the labor of others at the barrel of a gun.
panopticon7 3 years ago
That is not true. A free market is one with which the government does not interfere. However, you a suggesting that corrupt government interference is the free market. You may want to brush up on the fundamentals. Perhaps your solution is socialism which ALWAYS ends in more corruption and the destruction of society where we will all have a gun to our heads to give up our earnings to spread the wealth. Haven't you learned the lessons from history?
magichandpuppet 3 years ago
The absurdity of this notion of "free market" capitalism is the idea that human greed will keep itself in check in a regulatory vacuum! The most basic fact is that human nature will manifest itself no matter the framework. Horrible atrocities have been committed by governments of the extreme left and the extreme right.
Besides - what's so terrible about wealth being more evenly distributed? Though it's only an ideal, it would be better for the state of the masses than the sick concentration
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
of wealth that we see now. The lessons of history? How about the Gilded Age, Robber Barons & mega-monopolies, & the extreme disparity of wealth leading up to the stock market crash of '29 & the Great Depression?
What we've got here is the same old crap playing itself out again. People will always find a way to manipulate whatever system they're in.
I do agree about the evils of the Federal Reserve, and that Obama is owned by the bankers and corporate powers. Same-old same-old there.
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
SayYes, since "human nature will manifest itself no matter the framework", then it really doesn't matter which system we have, right?
I agree that it is sick that the government seems to exist to create regulations which end up further concentrating wealth. That is wrong. It is not a free market.
But, who do you think should distribute this wealth you talk of? Do you think they should use force? Perhaps guns? Perhaps they should shoot and kill anyone who refuses? Redistribution = violence
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
And apalling concentration of wealth = suffering. It's just a sad state of affairs, and I do not for a moment presume to know the answer. If only I did!
It does seem to me, however, that both extremes must be avoided. We can neither tolerate a forced distribution of wealth nor a terrible concentration at the top. Either is bad. It seems that if I've read my history correctly, it's pretty cyclical. But as long as this republicrat trickle-down financial theory holds sway, we're all screwed.
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
I agree that concentration of wealth equals suffering... but the free market DID NOT cause this concentration of wealth, period.Government supported monopolies enable this kind of madness.That is all government really does: it supports "special interests" in order to take from the masses to give to a few (who give to politicians).Occasionally it gives a small fraction of a percent back to the people as a little carrot so it can claim that it isn't corrupt.We continue to trust corrupt politicians
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
I'll grant you that. I guess I just wonder - if the market was truly free, would it bring out the best? Or would greed infect it as well? Is a truly free market just an ideal? Greed-fueled corruption is the big problem. The Republicans & Democrats are just wings of the same class of wealthy elites. As long as there is money & power, the cycle will continue.
Funny thing is, I think we're more on the same page than we realize...
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
Since I am not aware of a free market occurring, we can only theorize about what being free would be like. Mises(dot)org is a good place to get literature on this topic. I agree about Republicans and Democrats... it is all a big scam, as is Socialism, Communism, Fascism, etc. There is always a ruling class in these systems. A free market would theoretically prevent an indefinite ruling class.
I am reading about another system called Technocracy... pretty interesting though I find challenges
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
I've been hearing some discussion of technocracy & other forms of governance on campus, but haven't checked them out myself yet. Guess I should get on that...
And you're right about ideals vs. practice. Communism in its benevolent, intended form could be a beneficial system of government, but we know how that turns out in the real world... Socialsim tries to be the best of both worlds but, like an all-season tire, can't handle extremes worth a tinker's damn. I swear, I'm gonna go off-grid!
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
Me too! In all actuality, the system that I want is anarchy. Anarchy actually is a free market... without any government intervention... You should check out stefbot channel... His stuff really makes sense to me and should require the least amount of effort to get there... especially in light of the self-destruct nature of our current corrupt system.
All that said, it's all academic. The system is not managed by intellectuals, but rather by sheep and rulers :(
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
That's very true! And, I'll check out that channel. The thing that strikes me the most is how we started out seemingly opposed and ended-up realizing that we agree on many things. Funny how that works-out. Shame this kind of thing doesn't happen more often!
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
Agreed! On youtube I think it's sometimes easy to go into a discussion assuming the other person is, to put it nicely, challenged... But, once you find that someone is actually open to other ideas rather than simply pushing some kind of brainwashing dogma, then it's a nice surprise!
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
And I do think that 'challeneged' is spot on! Far too many people only seem able to regurgitate what they hear, which is often what they WANT to hear - a reinforcement of what they already believe.
That's a shame because it's so intellectually stunting. In a world where the rich and powerful would prefer us to be sheep, the greatest power a person can possess is the ability to think independently and logically. Next would be the ability to discuss issues peacefully and with an open mind!
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
Unfortunately, our 12 year training program was modeled after Prussia's according to some. It seems like the program was created to make people good at following orders and consuming... critical thinking doesn't seem to be the product. In fact, I think some are still capable of critical thinking in spite of our education program... definitely not because of it.
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
I remember hearing something similar, and there certainly does seem to be a Teutonic be-a-good-obedient-citizen quality to it. The whole thing was put into place primarily to create a more competitive labor force by educating the masses, and teaching critical thinking skills to the working classes wouldn't be in the interests of the rich and powerful! Today, the system is still about job training for the current "capatalist" system.
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
Exactly - and I appreciate you using quotes around "capitalist" system because that is only what they want us to believe it is. It is pretty easy to prove that our system is fascism. The fact that everyone calls it capitalism (i.e. free market) does not make it so. I believe it is more of a Corrupt Crony Capitalistic Fascists Command-Control Oligarchical system... perhaps I could add a few cuss words in their for good measure :)
magichandpuppet 2 years ago 2
You're welcome, haha. The quotes are completely appropriate. Saying that we have a truly capitalist system would be as pointless as claiming that the U.S. has never engaged in any imperialist activities. Reality is reality. And I appreciate your proper use of the term 'fascism'. Although traditional fascism as represented by the nazis and their ilk was ultra-right nationalism, the term can apply clear across the spectrum. We just suffer from a highly corporatized version in the U.S.
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
I agree completely. This is why I currently conclude that less government would be better. The bigger government becomes, the more fascist we become and the worse our problems get. Without government involvement, the current financial collapse and crisis would have been impossible. They are completely responsible as they were supposed to look out for our best interest but instead led us like sheep to the slaughter while the richest get richer and the politicians' pockets get lined.
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
In an ideal world, I wouldn't be opposed to a large government if it worked for the people. But, it doesn't seem to work that way. I do wonder though if sometimes a strong, central government has actually been a positive, particularly when change is needed long before it would happen organically at the local level, such as the end of slavery, or for a modern national defense. Then again, I suppose these things could be accomplished with a gov't considerably smaller than what we have now...
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
Anything is possible... however, to my knowledge, the old adage "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" has proven to be true. In every historical example I have read, the more powerful a government becomes, the worse it gets for the people (who it tries to convince it is there to help). Most problems I learn about are actually caused by government. And, who is fit to trust with power over you anyway? Who is not corruptible? How do you trust someone with absolute power?
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
The point being that people are so easily corrupted. Big government simply presents those in power with a nearly irresistible temptation: a vehicle for their ambitions. The heart of the dilemma of governing is human nature itself, and what a bugger that is!
As for me, I live simply and inexpensively. I will not subscribe to the siren song of the "American Dream" and enslave myself to money for decades. I save, & plan to buy land somewhere private & pristine, and go off-grid, as I mentioned.
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
I feel exactly the same way. I want to be off the grid and off the radar. I did spread myself out a bit with real estate... it can be an entanglement and is truly a liability. I knew that going into it but it is part of my plan to get to the point of moving off the grid as well without debt. I am frugal and am well aware of the evils of debt-slavery.
Re: gov't... the people you can trust don't aspire to have power over you.
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
Ah - I was thinking about it another way. Yes, that's true about who can be trusted...
Good insight.
I'm always afraid people will take my 'off-the-grid' talk and color me a far-right nutjob with conspiratorial delusions and an assault rifle fetish. That's not the case, but I can relate to the spirit of those folks. I just want to live as freely as I can, in a place that's all mine. And, when I think about a couple billion more people by the time I'm ready to retire... I need lebensraum! lol
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
yea! panopticon for prez! =}
ericineffible 2 years ago
panopticon7, this is not correct. A free market would not have ANY involvement from the government outside of protecting the liberties of the individual. What you described is the furthest thing from a free market. It is a command-control system where the politicians serve the elite's best interest to the detriment of the people. Government action interferes with the market, keeping it from being free, so that it benefits the wealthy. Republicans and Democrats are the same in this regard.
magichandpuppet 2 years ago
@panopticon7 - No. A government-mandated monopoly, which they enforce by the use of guns, it not free market. Please go back to school and learn to use your brain.
magichandpuppet 1 year ago
@magichandpuppet
The Federal Reserve System is not "owned" by anyone and is not a private, profit-making institution. Instead, it is an independent entity within the government, having both public purposes and private aspects.
666lordbyron666 1 year ago
@666lordbyron666 - you are either a liar or a dupe. It is a privately-owned, profit-making institution. It is made up of regional Federal Reserve banks which are owned by banks in the Federal Reserve system. Do your own research. Start with Creature From Jeckyll Island... then verify the sources. You should try reading history before making mis-informed comments.
magichandpuppet 1 year ago
@666lordbyron666 - watch?v=bdR1kpO9sc8
Get to Ron Paul's explanation in the video (watch?v=bdR1kpO9sc8). It is for profit. And, it is privately-owned. Albeit, it was "Created" by the government. Then learn what G. Edward Griffin exposed in his research of its history.
magichandpuppet 1 year ago
@magichandpuppet capital and speculation controls the economy, its no freer than slavery. The federal reserve is "no more federal than frederal express", it should not be controlled by bankers, it should be a democratically elected position.
thefredsays 1 year ago
@thefredsays - agree about the Federal Reserve. As all politicians are corrupt, I do not trust them (or a new "democracy") in control of money. Money should be created by the free market as was intended by the framers of our Constitutional Republic. It's fine for government to create money as long as it competes in a free market. As the Federal Reserve is a government-mandated monopoly - a monopoly enforced and protected with government guns and violence - it is not free market - It is slavery
magichandpuppet 1 year ago
Big government is NOT,NOT a good thing!! As corrupt as the political system is, it would only allow the tax payers to be screwed even more! If you had a bank vault and you let 10 people have access to it, when money goes missing you only have 10 people to question! It's the same with government, the more people, the less likely you are going to catch the wrong doers! Or more accurately, the dickheads ripping us off!
jerami101 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
lovin this video!! leave me a comment
lets chat 89
Julzkwan 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
someone smart please help me
great vid pt
5one50 3 years ago
I was thinking that the Judeo-Christian tradition is to encourage reproduction by idiots and then make useless idiotic communist-sounding arguments in a doomed effort to prevent the elite from convincing excess idiots to conquer someone.
CACBCCCU 3 years ago
It don't make sense to bailout corporations that move production abroad. They themselves rendered the very consumers of their goods to low wage, service and retail employees. It's their own greedy fault nobody buys their $20k cars. They traded the (you pay me, I pay you) circle, for a linear (you can't afford me, I can't afford you) clusterfuk.
joinhandz 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is abject nonsense. The greatest supporters of the bailouts are people on the Left, and the greatest objectors to the bailout are Conservatives.
Advocate1234 3 years ago
He's not talking about left or right. He is simply explaining why he thinks the bail out doesn't work. Some conservatives support the bailout and some do not, same for liberals. This isn't about left or right, it's about informing.
danielizm 3 years ago 3
Not only the UK, Japan and the US.. of course Canada being the lap dog it is is planning a bail out of the auto-industry now... It is my sincere hope that the monetary system crumbles like the facade truly it is.
GeneticIdentity101 3 years ago
We need another "New Deal"...by the end of 2009 this will be painfully obvious. Current unemployment numbers are understated. Will Obama do this? Is he "Rooseveltian?" History repeats itself. I hope he is the man for these times because we are in deep doo doo
StephenSchultz1958 3 years ago
what about the economic multiplier effect?
harleyfowler74 3 years ago
Just saw on ABC/GMA today that the banking industry is still giving out $23 BILLION in bonuses.
That, after 170,000 job cuts in that sector.
Talk about a re-distribution of wealth. Disgusting.
luvofcountry 3 years ago
This fellow has a good sense of pragmatism that few people have today - we need to learn from the past if we want to build a better future.
blackiron60 3 years ago 3
Zinn needs to refer to the idea/concept or phenomenon of the "Free Market" as such as an "Idea" "Concept" and "Phenomenon".
State that these ideas concepts are totally unconstitutional.
dustynbones 3 years ago
Federal Arts Program could also be subject to government censorship, the Living Newspaper troupe was shut down for producing a play critical of Mussolini invasion of Ethiopia (remember, in the 1930s the fascists were thought of a-okay)
KentAllard 3 years ago
Its scary how much Zinn and I share the same views but I disgree with him on the free market. Now, I have my axes with the Free market theory but one cannot say that it was the Free Market that failed. The Free Market wasn't allowed to be Free. This problem was created by the FED, The FED and Bussiness together in cooperation. That is a problem and people are focusing on the syptoms and not he diease. The diease is unchecked government power by the people.
Ryukikon 3 years ago
He's saying the gov. should give money to people to pay off their houses. This is a contradicting and flawed argument. People complain about baling out banks for their bad lending choices, but then they want to bail out people for making bad borrowing choices. The right regulation wasn't in place; that's what happened. We should learn from this and implement good regulation. Some things causing this crisis like credit default swaps are fairly new and people now know its potential problems
9s0b04trieph1dy6 3 years ago
John Kennedy lost his life for not playing ball with these guys. The Federal Reserve is the real problem, that will never be addressed. America gave it's country away in 1913, and today we see the amplified result.
rollsthepaul 3 years ago 2
Plenty Americans know these econ policies damage us, but don't care because they benefit. They are traitors. No political/economic system can survive an uneducated complaisant, apathetic and greedy populace. We need a radical paradigm shift, the beginning of which is represented by the Obama campaign. But changing the president is only the start. We need to purge the system of usury parasites, nurture and protect the working classes, rebuild manufacturing infrastructure and impose tariffs.
IYAMNI 3 years ago
It is nice to be a billionaire. Even if you are a dumbase and make a big lost, the government will bail you out. You never need to face to the outcome of your own mistakes.
P.S: what you are suggesting is too sensible. And it doesn't prevent the suffering of billionaires. Think of the rich people who can no longer afford their second private jet.
JayCKat 3 years ago
You are so right!! Plus, crazed one's like Palin are pushing for some type of rapture...wtf?
kellymkg 3 years ago
Down with NWO, corruption and fraud, Up with unity, peace,, equality, health, environment and technology!!!
danoking69 3 years ago
I dont agree with zinn that real big government is the answer. Big federal government gave us the Patriot Act, NSA, renedition, gun control, Abortion, and special interest programs. I'm not for that. Just because this hypocritical adminstration hands over 700 billion of my tax money over to corrupt banks doesnt excuse big fed.
xxashyy 3 years ago 2
not all big government is the same. We need to be protected from large companies whose only goal is short term profits.
alichoturko 3 years ago
I think there could be a good argument for small government and for big government depending on the situation.
I think we get too wrapped up in ideology/politics (more/less taxes, big/small government, regulation/deregulation) instead of looking critically at what *works* and what *doesn't work*.
Using simple success metrics that can be evaluated, studied, and then refined vs. the constant emotional/ideological decisions would go a long way towards a system that works well for all.
oolong2 3 years ago
Applying the scientific method, at least a bit, always helps, as we all too often turn everything into a religion.
abilityoflove 3 years ago
wait didn't government get us in this problem in the first place now their trying to get us out! oh well! geez i wonder when people realize that the federal reserve is private and way more powerfull than the federal government! in fact they caused the great depression even Ben Bernankee agreed! Tinkering with system won't work by creating big government there's gonna need 2 b major reforms 2 stop these thing from happening!
carlkepler 3 years ago
what is the alternative vktrsx? Human emancipation. I better start meditating or something...
ericdhroe 3 years ago
Real News Needs a better market so more people can see the REAL NEWS instead of FOX news.
GIAB777 3 years ago
Basically the poor bail out the rich!
Bernanke is not even an elected official
The Federal Reserve Bank is not even owned by the USA
The USA cannot even audit its books!
Americans are ignorant sheeple!
The deserve what they get - Thank god for my 2nd citizenship!
See ya later suckers!
sugarpuddin88 3 years ago
Zinn is talking sense! Did it WORK to have young people fight wars, instead of cultural & health activities? NO!!! Did it WORK to give people HIGH INTEREST LOANS, rather than "give-aways"? NO!!! Forget "Socialism", "Capitalism", & all the other clap-trap: DO WHAT WORKS - or die dummy!
PhotonDrive 3 years ago
What the US needs to do is Nationalize the single largest bank. Not bail it out, Buy it outright. Yes, the people inherit the debt, but now the bank belongs to the government. Other banks still exist to offer capitalist alternatives, but now there is ONE absolutely stable and strongly regulated bank that cannot collapse or become insolvent, a bank which is responsible to the people, which only makes sense because it's the peoples' money.
Etimos 3 years ago
I disagree. I think the nation should have it's own bank and not bailout any bank. Let the CEO's of these banks fail like they are meant to do when they take on bad investments and bad risks. The new US Bank should be owned by the taxpayers with every one getting an equal share of this bank. Then let this bank be regulated with sound principles and regulations. Also, an independent agency to examine the bank every month to check to make certain the bank is balanced.
pongman 3 years ago
Where exactly are you doisagreeing with me? That's pretty much what I said. Rather than a bailout, the government should just buy the largest bank straight up, nationalizing it and making it a socialized bank, meaning, bank of the people, where every taxpayer is an investor and a shareholder.
I think you're a bit confused on what my position was, because we're both standing on the same side of the issue.
Etimos 3 years ago
I don't think we should buy any bank. We should just open a new bank. The idea was developed by Plutsky. Watch video by khanacademy Bailout:14 possible solution. and his Bailout 15. The guy is a genius.
pongman 3 years ago
We shouldn't inherit any debt or buy any debt, or for that matter bail anyone out.
pongman 3 years ago
So this is Zinns idea of a free market...Rent controls, min wage, 50% tax rates, food and oil subsidies, subsidised housing through freddie, fannie and the CRA. This is the failure of socialism and crony capitalism, not the free market.
Socialism is a failed strategy that delivers poverty to all.
stratvic 3 years ago
No, you're thinking of communism. Socialism has ALWAYS benefited the great majority.
Here in canada for example, take a look around. SOCIALIZED medicine. Not one single canadian in a century has ever lost their home because of medical bills. Not one, ever. Socialized Education (as the americans enjoy too), every child in the entire nation can go to school, regardless of income. Socialized postal services, the mail moves on.
This bailout is LITERALLY socialized profit loss. That's the bad kind
Etimos 3 years ago
There are many kinds of communism. Most have never existed... okay i'm done.
ericdhroe 3 years ago
Socialism is a death cult feeding of the productive to support the unproductive. Socialized medicine is expensive (just calculate the tax required to serve each citizen) and leaves the recipients at the mercy of the government as when or if they get treatment. They ration the care through waiting lists in which people die.
stratvic 3 years ago
Every industrialized country with national health care is spending less on it than we are.
People don't even get the chance to be on waiting lists in the U.S.
GretnaBlast 3 years ago 2
The US is not a free market in health care it is a quasi govt health care system. The high cost is due to market distortions created by the govt such as restriction cross state competition.
stratvic 3 years ago
Not true. Norway does a fantastic job and everyone is healthier and wealthier because of it. It also happens to be ironically one of the most expensive countries to live in. The difference between the CEO's pay and the lowest paid employee is smaller than any of the other western industrialized nations.
pongman 3 years ago
It's expensive mainly because of monetary inflation. If the money gained in value it wouldnt be quite as bad. But yes, the skandanavian countries seem to have the right idea, between Norway and Sweden. Unfortunately some of their policies infringe on personal freedom, so while they have among the highest standards of living in the world, they also have very high suicide rates. Then again, that could have something to do with the miserable weather and proximity to the north pole.
Etimos 3 years ago
Lol, well I think suicide is predominantly culturally related. If you notice the Chinese lead the world in suicides however if you were to look up the countries with the most homicide rates you'd be impressed that Norway is closer to the bottom. So the reasoning goes if your boss pisses you off, then you either commit suicide or shoot the bastard. lol. The Chinese are more humble and think its an affront on them as oppose to the other guy. Therefore the Norwegians are similar in that regard.
pongman 3 years ago
Norway is a distributive society not a redistributive society based on is vast oil wealth. What has income inequality got to do with anything? Is it not more important that the average standard of living is higher and that there is the possibility to aspire to great wealth though merit? Measuring envy seems to me to be a completely corrupt measure of societal success.
stratvic 3 years ago
Let's take our blood bank for instance. The CEO makes a hundred times what the guy that draws the blood makes. The CEO has no extraordinary qualifications other than being appointed via some political tie, perhaps related to a relative. Anyway the poor schmuck at the end and the bus that he works in is badly needed repair. I remember waiting during lunch hour and telling him that I can't donate blood if I'm going to be late. He shrugged his head in indifference.
pongman 3 years ago
I haven't donated a drop of blood since. I use to donate every three months.
pongman 3 years ago
The fundamental question is what is someones talents are worth to whom, not what they are being paid. If all involved in the transaction participate voluntarily then no moral code is broken. If there is either fraud, theft, or coercion involved in the trade then that is a separate issue. Involvement of politics is necessarily the involvement to coercion and most often theft (tax) to boot.
stratvic 3 years ago
I find your lack of faith in socialization disturbing *darth vader throat grip for dramatic effect*.
First of all, countries with socialized medicine spend about half as much per person as the US.
Have you ever even tried the socialized medicine method? Tell you what, I'll tell you how much I pay annually in socialized health care costs. About $400. For the entire year. That's me, covered, for nearly every disease and ailment known to man, including most elective surgeries.
Etimos 3 years ago
Not including frivelous cosmetic surgeries of course. No botox or nip n' tuck. But last year, I had a really bad ingrown toenail, so I went in. Didnt even have to make an appointment. Went in, waited in line for about an hour (More serious cases go to the front of the line, always. I dont know who told you people die in our waiting lines, probably Fox Noise, but they're liars. The only way that happens is if someone is misdiagnosed and erroneously placed on low priority). My toe's all better now
Etimos 3 years ago
I didnt have to take out a cash advance on my paycheck or refinance my house. I went in, showed them my Social Health Care card, sat down, and was with a doctor in an hour. Had it been an emergency, I would have seen a doctor in about 20 minutes, because I live 20 minutes away from the hospital and that's about how long it takes for an ambulance to make the trip, and get me all registered and in the doctor's sight. 15 minutes speedy driving, 5 minutes from ambulance to hospital bed.
Etimos 3 years ago
IN fact, do you know why our waiting lines are so long? BECAUSE EVERYONE IN THE COUNTRY IS USING THE HOSPITAL SYSTEM!!!
You can sure as hell cut down on hospital waiting lines if only about half the people around you can actually afford to be there. That right there cuts the line in half.
But if you're the kind of person who can happily receive medical treatment knowing that somewhere out there there's someone who cant, because they cant afford it, then I'm sure this carries no weight with you
Etimos 3 years ago
Me, on the other hand, I'm the generous sort. I'm perfectly willing to chip in on a community fund to pay for health care for people who arent me. I guess that's the fundamental difference between me and you, and people like you. The thought of paying for someone else's badly needed cancer treatment doesnt bother me at all. I'm sure the thought of parting with your hard-earned money for someone else's benefit is just gut-wrenching. Funny, most religious nation in NA, and so afraid of charity.
Etimos 3 years ago 2
you summed it up very well.
krammitAll 3 years ago
Amen. Compassion vs. Selfishness does seem to be at the heart of this (and most) matters.
I, too, am glad to help others. As long as I make a fair wage & can provide for myself, what does it hurt me to pay a bit of tax so others can be healthy & not suffer? The problem is that stagnant wages prevent people from properly providing for themselves, which breeds resentment of taxation. That's how the powers that be operate - keep us resentful and at each others throats, fighting for the scraps...
SayYesToReason 2 years ago
Waiting lines are a the government rationing your health care deciding who should live or die and which treatments to provide and which to with hold.
A free market is also an allocation system but one based on choice not theft an coercion...and no the US system is not a free market it is a government regulated industry...regulation means not free.
stratvic 3 years ago
The US health care system doesn't work, and no one is denied access in public systems. By offering a public/private service those who can afford it can get out of the line by using private health care which will also shorten the waits for those receiving public health care.
JamesThWilliams 3 years ago
That depends on the procedures your govt decides to make available to the public. They preserve limited health funds by restricting access to procedures.
stratvic 3 years ago
Yes but you're forgetting one major factor. Republicans are cheap enough to take advantage of a system they don't like. They have no principles. You know those people they always talk about in the section 8s bleeding welfare dry. It's mostly them! They think everyone is selfish like they are which is why they always rail against government. Well guess what you're the problem fuckheads!
catbuffalo 3 years ago 3
I'd say most politicians in general.
Gettinghitonattheban 3 years ago
You really have no idea, do you? Just stop talking, save yourself a tiny scrap of dignity. The wait times in canada under a social health care system are comparable to those in the US, and are made inevitable by the volume of people using the system. The wait times in the US are LITERALLY from health insurance companies deciding whether their clients live or die. You have it completely ass backwards. PS: My taxes are not very high. I pay my $400 premium and i'm covered, nationwide, no hassle.
Etimos 3 years ago
Seriously, take it from someone who is actually a patron of the system you dont even seem to understand, ok? Do you have any idea how much money you would pay, PERSONALLY, if you had a heart attack tomorrow? Do you know how much money I'd pay? Well in the US, about $50,000. Here in Canada, $400, same as every other year. What do you do if you have a heart attack and the ambulance drives you to a hospital not covered under your corporate insurance plan? Well, you pay. Me? I get treated.
Etimos 3 years ago
You should just give up on your point right here, because there isn't a single argument you can make in favor of a privatized health care system in a wealthy industrialized country where more than 40% of the population is either uninsured or under-insured. It's a dead-end argument. The weight of the counter-argument crushes any pathetic attempt you come up with to justify a non-socialized health care system. Either you don't understand how it works, or you are stupid and/or selfish. That's it.
Etimos 3 years ago 2
Hospital Bills in the US: #1 cause of bankruptcy.
Hospital Bills in Canada, Britain, Germany, France, Cuba, and nearly every other industrialized nation on earth: Non-existent.
Socialized medicine removes profit from the equation, eliminates the need for health insurance companies to exist at all, trims excessive bureaucracy, and removes the need for doctors to consult with insurance adjusters entirely. This single-handedly eliminates more than 50% of US health insurance costs.
Etimos 3 years ago
Without the costs associated with profit, bureaucracy, insurance adjustment, advertisements, CEO pay, office buildings, and all the costs entailed in owning and operating an insurance company, the per-capita health care cost in the US would be cut by more than half. Yes, more than half of the money you pay into your health care system currently goes into the pockets of insurance companies, NOT doctors and nurses.
How can you possibly be stupid enough to think that spending more is cheaper?
Etimos 3 years ago
Unless your answer is "I'm sorry, I was wrong, I see the truth now" dont even bother responding. Every argument you can possibly make in favor of privatized health care has been debunked in every industrialized nation on earth EXCEPT THE US! Everything Fox News has told you about the evils of socialized medicine is known to be false outside the US. Individual service might be a tiny bit better for the person who can pay, but for the other 40% of the population, there is no service at all!
Etimos 3 years ago 3
The US system is quasi govt. They have messed up the market mechanism that would otherwise deliver cheap affordable health care.
stratvic 3 years ago
You left our your tax contribution. So is $400 plus the average tax per capita component required to support the health system. Doesn't look so cheap now does it?
stratvic 3 years ago
Your not including the per capita tax take required to fund health care. If you contribute less than the average person you should consider yourself a thief. If you pay more you should consider yourself a victim of thieves.
stratvic 3 years ago
Etimos only focuses on what is seen. What is not seen is that their economy could probably be more efficient or wealthy if it didn't waste so many resource on healthcare. Also, Norway had a lot wealth it accumulated throughout the centuries to spend on its social programs. Lastly, the USA is not a free market!!!!! Zinn is an idiot for claiming that it is while simultaneously admitting that there is a big government.
danberkeley 2 years ago
Norway has not saved wealth throughout the centuries. I am from Norway, and after the second world war it had extreme debt and no basically nothing except natural recourses. It started to become wealthy only after the 70's, when oil was becoming its main commodity.
deterdetsamma2 2 years ago
Well as a donor I and a lot of others I've talked to felt cheated. The blood bank's CEO didn't give a damn as to the quality of the bus and its environment; or the people they hired who were in charge of handling the blood products. The end result is less people will donate blood which will affect the community in the end. Take some of the profits that the CEO makes and put it in better wages and bus conditions for the donors.
pongman 3 years ago
So Zinn is pro forced monopoly?
overmind25 3 years ago
How about an unforced monopoly based on your unconscious consent?
ericdhroe 3 years ago
If a monopoly is not forced then other organizations will form and there will not be a monopoly. I need to be conscious to consent.
overmind25 3 years ago
I never cease to be entertained by Internet Economists who think they know the secrets to make capitalism "work" because they've absorbed laissez-faire drivel.
The problem is capitalism. It is inherently divisive and corrupting. There is no way to make it "work" in an equitable way. But of course its advocates aren't interested in equity -- and that's their dirty little secret.
vktrsx 3 years ago 3
the secret to a failing free market is more free market, and you know what they say about someone who repeats the same process over and over expecting a different outcome...
KentAllard 3 years ago 3
Wow, Zinn is a full-fledged socialist.. Cool!
YuriKenobi 3 years ago
Why he is suprise that Obama accept the bailout!!? Wake up dude...geez! None of them are there to help you.
neutrinoide 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Again with the free-market bashing. The state created the problem in the first place..geez. Come on, go die old asshole bigots.
neutrinoide 3 years ago
Howard Zinn made a great contribution to the perspective on American history, but he doesn't know much about economics. I don't like the bailout, but not for the reasons that Zinn stated.
LPGfan 3 years ago