Avon Turbojet startup

[AgentJayZ]

@DoomDriver It sounds just fine... It's important to know what you're listening to :)

[DoomDriver]

Those final seconds doesn't sound very good... =/

[badjohnbad]

@kaaitj almost, the internal resistance of a battery describes how much current it can source. typical 12v car battery is about 0.001 ohms, so it will put half its voltage across a 0.001 ohm load (because the effective resistance across the battery terminals is halved). 6v across 0.001 ohm is 6 kA. nice. for 1kA the battery should be outputting about 11v (0.001 ohm internal + 0.011 ohm load) so the voltage across the lot should be 121vdc. actually you were pretty much right

[AgentJayZ]

@badjohnbad I knew I was oversimplifuing it by just adding up battery voltages. Thanks for the info.

I'm not as good with electrons as I am with heatilons.

[TheCorollagti]

I would love to do that just once, to sit there with that control and just listen to that thing fire up.... the sound is foreplay! <3

[kaaitj]

Well, if you are using batteries and the amps would increase, the voltage will drop due to the internal electrical resistor build in the batteries. So, the 1000A will not be by 132VDC. But I can be wrong. Those internal electrical resistors are build into every battery as far as I know.

[koolbossjock]

I put this beautifull sound on a CD and use it as an alarm clock.Great sound to wake up to.

[DavoCitizen]

gotta love the sound as it starts

[dtiydr]

1:40 isnt that hot?

And whats the amperage drawn at the different stages?

[AgentJayZ]

@dtiydr Hell yeah, it's hot! It gets hotter as you move closer and as the engine slows down, because cooling airflow decreases. But it gets cooler the longer that airflow goes thru the engine without fuel being burned. I only spend a few seconds in there, because it's as hot as an oven.

I make those sacrifices for you, my audience... gladly, because you are my reason for doing this!

The amperage peaks at 1000 and drops to 50.

[dtiydr]

@AgentJayZ yea i starting to wonder if it was hot that close you got. :D And 1kA thats insane but guess its needed to spin that turbine, lot of weight. Btw what the voltage?

[AgentJayZ]

@dtiydr From a comment a year ago:

"The first position connects 24VDC, the second, 60V, and the third, 132VDC.

The meter is an ammeter. The current starts out at about 1000 Amps, and when it drops to 50, it's time to move the switch to the next position."

[bamaslamma1003]

Is the Avon a single or dual spool engine?

[AgentJayZ]

@bamaslamma1003 It is a single shaft turbojet. Single spool is also a commonly used, slightly less formal term.

[bamaslamma1003]

Are you using jet fuel or propane?

[AgentJayZ]

@bamaslamma1003 Most of our engine tests are of industrial power units that run on natural gas. We test them on propane, because it is easier tohandle, and does not require a pipeline for the delivery of the large amounts we use.

Jet fuel requires liquid fuel nozzles, and is much more expensive than propane.

We only test aircraft engines with jet fuel.

[PeterNGloor]

Familiar sound of years ago when we had the Caravelle jetliner around and the Hawker Hunter fighter, both Avon-powered. They were very noisy.

[kaaitj]

Probably the best startup sound of a turbine engine. Very nice vid man ;)

[AgentJayZ]

@TowManSKS From my comment a year ago: We apply it in three steps because it would be a large mechanical shock to all the components of the starter drive if we just were to apply max torque instantly.

We're trying not to break stuff.

[highvoltagefeathers]

@AgentJayZ Very interesting. Is the box just housing for a switch? or are there resistive elements responsible for limiting the torque?

[AgentJayZ]

@highvoltagefeathers It is a very hi-amperage switch.

see my prev. comment at 4 mo,

and aruju01's comment at 8 mo. He built the switch.

[cheetawolf]

that starter motor sounds like an old hard drive spinning up...

its electric i take it?

[AgentJayZ]

@cheetawolf Yes, we use the Avon's on-board electric starter...

[rockerzac99]

was that a spark in the box when you shifted from 2nd to 3rd?

[AgentJayZ]

@rockerzac99 Well, yes and no. It's an arc on a multi-position switch engaging different sets of batteries.

Please see the comment from aruju01, because he designed the system, and his explanation is the best.

[rockerzac99]

@AgentJayZ oh, now i got it it was like a momentary differental in power and it arcs back to full

[teslapower220]

The 1000 Amps is momentary right? No car batteries can sustain that much continuously. For how long approximately is it at 1000A?

[AgentJayZ]

At first contact of each level of applied voltage, the ammeter hits 1000 and immediately begins to decrease as the starter speeds up.

It drops to about 50 amps in the time shown in the video, and then the switch is moved to the next level.

At full voltage I hold the switch on until the operator gives me the signal to switch off.

Even after the engine is burning fuel, the starter is needed to help it get up to idle speed. During this "third stage", amps are between 50 and 100.

[JbOxRh]

MUCH respect is due to anyone and everyone who keep aircraft flying safely!

[JbOxRh]

Best start up vid I've seen yet, and I've seen many. Saw a huge arc at :16 sec when u went from slot 2 to slot 3. What was that? At what point in the vid did the ignitors fire up the combustion chamber? Awesome vid!!!

[aruju01]

@JbOxRh The arc is 500 amps @36 volts dc being cut off. Second starting stage is 1000 amps @ 84 vdc, and third stage is 1000 amps @ 121 vdc.

[rhynix20]

I wonder if people realize how fake this vide is.. I'm sure its not even mounted to the floor properly, and its designed for JETS, how would it not take off? As far as the filter in front of the engine, thats also FAKE cause the filter would have atleast bended closer to it.

[theoriginaloldblue]

Your a idiot...  go play video games...

[AgentJayZ]

If you watch closely, the intake screeen does deform inward as the engine gains revs.

Maybe I edited that part out.

As for fake...

You say it's designed for jets... it is a jet.

Floor?

The engine is mounted in a stuctural steel frame, bolted with 16 3/4" bolts ( the same ones that hold skyscrapers together) to group of 8 steel columns driven over 16 feet into the ground, encased in the 6 inch thick concrete slab which makes up the whole "floor" you see in the video.

[AgentJayZ]

How would it not take off?

Well, aside from the "floor" it's connected to, there are no wings attached to it.

You need wings to take off and fly.

Or we could have pointed the engine straight up, but then we didn't.

So, to answer your question, and stop your wondering... none of this video is fake.

Check out my latest Avon test video.

It's called a pre-test because it was taken on the day before the big test, and it's more of a checkout.

[cjellwood]

FAKE! I asked the Avon lady about one of these and she just looked at me with a blank stare

[AgentJayZ]

Harr!

I actually know a guy who works on Avons at a large Canadian facility, and his dear old mum tells her friends that he works for Avon.

We just tested another one today. Great roaring beasts, I love 'em.

Video up soon!

[vanemmerik]

How similar is this to the RB146 Avon 67?

[AgentJayZ]

We will be starting the build of an Avon 1533 in a couple of days, and I will introduce the biscuit bin term at that time.

We make all our own tooling, and we don't have a dogging tool.

Cheers!

[cachorro1961]

hi very interesting

are this avon enginesto be use for tcpl company

i just to build thoses engines like 10 years a go in montreal those engine are

really good we use to have bsf tools

i do remember when we just to adjust the turbine setting with a tool we called hockey stick . thoses engines still in service in saudi arabia. venezuela, mexico, canada, and others countrys most of them are use to pumping gas industrial purpose

what good rolls royce engine

[AgentJayZ]

No, this engine is not for TCPL. They have their own company to work on their engines. I actually used to work there, and I have used the hockey stick tool.

[bazza89]

I work for a company that has overhauled a Avon for TCPL, hate using the hockey sticks on 1535 marks lol. Also like the names : Top Hat, Biscuit Tin, Chocolate Mice and Donkey's D**K. lol

[AgentJayZ]

We don't use those names, but maybe we should!

Let me guess: Top hat is the rear bearing housing Chocolate mice are the cooling air scoops (which we call mice)

Biscuit bin... I have no idea!

Donkey's D**K, ... Hmmm could that be the extension on the VIGV control unit?

... looks like one.

We call the cone and spoke assy the witches hat, which is really a Spey term, and even that one looks nothing like what a witch would wear.

Yes.. LOL. But more deadpan than out loud...

[bazza89]

You got 1 out of 4 :)

Top Hat = LP Disc Nuts Cover

Biscuit Tin = Cant remember the proper name for it but its is the part that seals the starter drive, just before the remote starter shaft is fitted.

Donkey's D**k = The Dogging tool that is inserted in front of the compressor shaft that allows you to lock the compressor during build / strip.

Haven't heard of the witches hat, but i hate doing the spoke distortion check on it lol.

[Convair0990]

Great Job... the Avon was used in early Sud Aviation Caravelle too...

Curious is that after so many years this engine is still active, at fully power!

[depolle13]

AWESOME SOUND!!!!!!

[cageordie]

Great videos and great info. If it hasn't already been said: the Avon also powered Thrust 2 which held the land speed record for many years. One of my friends flew an early Lightning and they flew faster and higher than was ever officially admited. But the early ones had minimal range too. My father used to build Olympus engines for RR, he'd have loved your videos.

[AgentJayZ]

I'm glad you like the tests, and I want you to know that we are all respectful of the history of these engines. The aircraft they were originally designed for, and the people who have kept them running through the years.

The Avon was designed in 1947, and has changed little since then. It is always like peeling back the layers of history to take one apart.

And then to make it new again... it is a tremendous satisfaction.

[bazza89]

The company i work for has a lightning in the car park as a tribute to these Avons. The Boss was wanting to hang it in reception... lol

[govrflb]

I really enjoy your videos and the detailed explanation-- they're very educational. I can almost smell the jet exhaust. :-)

Thanks for taking the time to share them. Looking forward to more in the future.

[AgentJayZ]

Thanks for the input. We have a couple of engines we need to test in a couple of weeks or so.

Most of our tests use propane for fuel, so there isn't that usual sweet, jet plane exhaust smell you get from kerosene.

[xXxmidgexXx]

Whats up with that transsmission like thing at the start? For the startert?

[AgentJayZ]

That is an electrical switch, controlling the voltage fed from a battery bank to the Avon's on-board electric starter motor.

The first position connects 24VDC, the second, 60V, and the third, 132VDC.

The meter is an ammeter. The current starts out at about 1000 Amps, and when it drops to 50, it's time to move the switch to the next position.

[xXxmidgexXx]

I see. Would it be better to use the mains instead of the battery bank cos it may die out.

[AgentJayZ]

There are no mains at the test cell. We have a generator running all the electrical needs.

But that, like line power, is 120V AC.

The starter is a large DC motor, designed for 132V.

Car batteries are the least expensive way to provide that.

[xXxmidgexXx]

Sorry for many questions but wouldn't it be better to feed the starter motor with 132VDC directly instead of having 3 stages?

Thanks

Midge

[AgentJayZ]

We apply it in three steps because it would be a large mechanical shock to all the components of the starter drive if we just were to apply max torque instantly.

We're trying not to break stuff.

[xXxmidgexXx]

Very Educational. Thanks for your information. Hope you can do more of these amazing videos.

Midge.

[XOROHN]

holly shit! what an amazing sound!!! 5*

[40150]

what a beast !

amazing how human kind make such powerful machines...

i reckon the white curved in intake looks sooo scary!

[xoio]

Ah, boys & their toys! LOL

Great stuff!

[derneuschooer]

this engine is really awesome, can you put a gas turbine in a standard car like the vw polo, with a speacial gear and so on?

[AgentJayZ]

Yes, I was just looking at a project by krugtech He has a Nimbus in a Minivan.

The Avon is about 20,000 Hp, and weighs almost two tons. It's big for a car.

The Nimbus makes just over 1000 Hp.

Take a look at his vids on YT

[dms654]

Gotta love the bugs splattered on the nose cone, at the end!

[itsgr82bl8]

That's pretty awesome!!!

[AgentJayZ]

This is an industrial Avon.

In service it would be connected via a straight duct to a power turbine, which would convert the exhaust gas stream to mechanical, or rotating shaft power.

In the test cell, we fit a tailcone to the exhaust which tapers down to a carefully measured area. This provides a restriction to exhaust gas flow, and pressure within the tailcone increases.

Horsepower produced by the engine is calculated using this pressure rise and area of the tailcone exit.

[Polarit]

Yeah, because I'd hate to have your job, playing with these engines all day ;) Awesome machine!!

Is this one an aero or industrial Avon? How do you measure the hp?

[redline8490]

that is my job :) woop woop lol

[102trafalgar]

Just love your videos. There were Hawker Hunters at The Farnborough Airshow this year also powered by The Avon. Brings back many memories. What will this one be used for now?

Thanks for the video

[AgentJayZ]

This engine will be used to generate electricity in eastern Canada.

The Hunter is a beautiful plane. I forgot to mention in the Info section that the Avon was its powerplant.

[alphamale666]

incredible footage. thanks!!! 5stars!