7/4 time signature. About 10's vs 11's? Only the first string is a 10 or 11. Drop your tuning to C# and maybe a 12 or 13 could be bent that far. He could be using a 15 for the 3rd string and another 10 for the 2nd string. Who knows. Each to his own. I build my own sets 44,34,24,16,11,10 and in full drop D tuning they can almost be too flexible. Drop tunings are cool but you better watch the left hand fret slap or you will be a buzzing fool.
@lazur1 he is putting the string dampener (hair tie) from behind the nut and onto the actual neck. you can clearly see this happen in a video from the NAMM 2010 performance of this song. he is such a badass
Getting back to the point: Govan isn't the premier player at any isolated component of his style: If you put Carlton, Holdsworth, Gilbert, Jordan up there, they'd each top him at their specialty. BUT he can do each style quite well, not merely versatility, but the foundation for his own style. Right now Govan is the guy to call if you're not sure what you want: He'll lay it all out & you decide.The downside is his own style right now is a bit 'kitchen-sink', but that will improve over time.
@ImmolateThyLord Are you dense? Or can't you read? I said I constantly troll his videos waiting for a good reason to hold him in high regard. So far zippo. I'm starting to think that all his fans are musical idiots.
nice, but buckethead tap with all 8 fingers on one string. im not saying buckethead is better than guithrie, but this isn't the most technically advanced tapping i have seen.
are you serious? buckethead had has come out with 29 solo albums and has been featured in over one hundred. he invented the tapping technique too. he can play everything from weird experimental crap like elephant mans alarm clock, to epic masterpieces like final wars, to emotional masterpieces like for mom, i love my parents, and padmasana, to crazy shred. buckethead is far from overrated, in fact he is one of the most underrated guitarists of all time.
i never said his technique was the best, i said he wasn't overrated. just look up shadows between the sky to see what im talking about. that's what his good music sounds like (or at least a good example of it).
hah, get the fuck out of here. you have no idea. this guys atleast 100 times better than buckethead. his tapping doesnt require dampening. you sir have no idea what good guitar technique is.
Ok maestro if you know so much how is Govans tapping more advanced then Bucketheads? What is he doing that you "have" to have a dampener for and what is Buckethead doing that is so easy it doesn't require the use of one?
@Sunderlanding Get out of here troll You make buckethead look bad you and all of his stupid zombie followers.....I love bucket to death but there seems to be people that don't know when to accept someone else as superior....
@TheWhocares233 So why is Guthrie better? He's never done anything new musicaly. He's not faster. He has no new techniques. What is it that makes him superior?
@Sunderlanding Its completely obvious that i could list every reason and the world and you would continue to troll...but here they are anyways....all i ask is you listen to the tapping part of this song... then the intro of waves....That is all i need to say to show he is superior...
@TheWhocares233 What? The tapping part? Really? That's the best you can come up with. It's just diatonic crap man. People have been tapping like that since the 80's. I could come up with a better example than that, and I don't even like his playing.
@Sunderlanding Then come up with one dude...I saw you trolling a shawn lane video too i believe you must be pretty good to be trolling such amazing players.
@TheWhocares233 Are you nuts? Shawn Lane is one of my favourite guitarists of all time. You must have misread my post, because I would never say anything bad about his playing. Oh and by the way I have. Many times.
@Sunderlanding Well than.. i don't see why you are so intent on making fun of govan when you actually like good players like lane and bucket etc. Govan is a great song writer and player =\
@TheWhocares233 I just don't get it man. Why are people so excited about his playing. He isn't doing anything that hasn't been done before, both technically and musically. And honestly good songs? His songs sound like they'd be more at home on a Top Gun soundtrack than a collection of great music. It's all cliches put into motion as a delivery system for his shred. I don't see anything musically relevent in his playing.
@Sunderlanding are you serious ? hasn't done anything that hasn't been done before ? maybe with guys like holdsworth and shawn lane. but most guitarists don't hold a candle to guthrie, he has complete control over the instrument. and if you think buckethead is better player or musician you should be executed via firing squad.
@mooch666 Seriously dude what has he done? All his chord progressions are just generic crap, plus his scale choices are always the most predictable cheesy shit. Technically he hasn't created any new techniques or taken any existing techniques up a level. He's just another shredder. Buckethead has challenged chord/scale realtionships that we know, and developed several new approaches to common shred techniques. He is by far the better musician.
I enjoy Govan, Bucket & many new virtuosos, but has anyone evolved the tapping of Jordan '82, legato of Holdsworth '69, sweep-picking of Gambale '84, alternate picking of DiMeola '74, hybrid picking of Lane '92, harmonics of Lenny Breau '68, string-bending of Beck '66, or put it all together w/effects more musically than Hendrix's "Axis Bold as Love"? I don't think so. (Some may be faster, no big deal.) But they've found original ways to use & combine techniques to make great new music.
I enjoy the new virtuosos, but no one's bettered the tapping of Jordan '82, legato of Holdsworth '69, sweeping of Gambale '84, alternate picking of DiMeola '74, hybrid picking of Lane '92, harmonics of Breau '68, bending of Beck' 66, blues-pop of Clapton w/the Beatles, jazz-pop of Carlton w/Steely Dan, jazz of Wes Montgomery, or the perfect music of "Axis Bold as Love". (Some are faster, big deal.) But they've found original ways to use & combine techniques to make great new music.
I added Lane before I saw your response, but NOT for alternate picking: He adds fingers to alternate picking: Hybrid picking, plus sweeps & legato. SL's legato compared to AH's? You should research what Shawn himself thought. He idolized AH to the end & had clearly stated that AH's stuff was more advanced than his would ever be. AH solos use as little right hand as possible. A huge fingerspan enables 4-note per-string scale-forms: less picking's required: The God of Legato. Shawn & I agree.
@lazur1 I realize Shawn was into Holdsworth, and Holdsworth is a true great, but the fact remains that Shawn built off of his legato playing. It's a fact and that's it. His diminished and augmented pull off licks were never played by anyone before him, and that technique is quite revolutionary. Not only that, but Shawn took inside picking to a whole new level, way beyond what Paul Gilbert or Al Dimeola were doing. No way you slice it he revolutionized guitar.
SL's a perfect example of what I said,(tho I -did- give him credit as an innovator): He combined legato w/alt-pick & sweeps into original concepts. His dim & aug stuff's based on a simplified form of AH's encyclopedic use of symmetrical scales.The only reason AH didn't use some of SLs legato lines before him: He was already beyond it. You can find Lane articles where he virtually says this. Aside from that, of course SL has plenty original licks; hardly the same as surpassing AH's legato!
Can't argue w/how you choose to interpret SL's words, but his words themselves state he'd never reach the sophistication of AH & he didn't fully grasp what AH was doing. AH never said that of anyone: Closest he came was crediting Coltrane as inspiration to leave rules behind & that guitar can't express melody as well as sax. As a guitarist for 45yrs, I know SL's virtuosity is other-wordly, but I often grasp its musical foundation . Most of the time I can't even tell what scale AH's using.
@lazur1 Actually I have that interview and Holdsworth says the same thing of McLaughlin immediately after. Goes against everything you said earlier. All those guys compliment one another it doesn't mean anything. What you look at is their playing, and if you analyze that you'll see Lane did things Holdsworth didn't do that were built from stuff he did. It's as simple as that.
Please direct me to that interview: I was referring to 2 solo interviews, not 1 after the other. SL combined many techs w/legato to do things AH didn't, & played legato riffs that AH didn't: That's not the same thing as taking legato as a concept further than AH. SL's accounts of astonishment at AH go well beyond mere compliments. He was an AH FREAK. I -have- analyzed SL's solos, well enough to play some of them, -slowly-, but I've failed to analyze AH's solos well enough to play them at all.
@lazur1 Guitar Player October, 2005 page 76. -When asked if they ever listen to one another and think "I should do that sort of thing". Allan: I would if I could but every time I hear John play I want to get a proper job. John: I would if I could but I haven't the faintest idea what Allan is doing. Allan: Neither do I.- Now if we run on you're logic we can assume: John is better than Allan, Allan is better than John, and Allan doesn't know anything about guitar.
@lazur1 Once again what they say doesn't matter, these are musicians for fuck's sake, but rather what they play. Futhermore I never said he took it further, but that he built off of what Allan had done. He went in a different direction not futher down the same one. Understand? And I've analyzed both of their solos and saying Allan is more advanced shows no understanding of what Shawn was doing.
@Sunderlanding That's cool, but my original statement was that no one's taken legato further than Allan. Sorry you had to end on a personal note. Obviously I disagree
@lazur1 End on a personal note? Are you even reading what I'm writting? I don't know where you got that, or where you got that he took legato further than Allan. He built off of what Allan did and made something totally new, which was the point at the very beginning. I suggest you go back and re-read the posts because you've obviously missed something.
Explain what I missed:1/I originally said no one's "evolved", (the technique of), legato further than AH. You originally said "not true". Now you say SL built something new & original off of AH, which is in agreement with what i've said all along: New & original musically but not any more evolved as far as legato itself's concerned 2/"...shows no understanding of what Shawn's doing.": That's uncalled for. Obviously we disagree: I could say same of you & what AH's done. What does that accomplish?
Apparently internet debate's such a different animal that telling opposition they "show(s) no understanding of (the subject)" is considered a legitimate point. It is not. Nor is accusing opposition of not paying attention. In real life, such remarks are personal insults. i believe an impartial observer would agree I've paid good attention to your arguments, & that I've reasonably indicated an understanding of Lane's work that is, -at worst-, well above average. Your remarks -are-"personal".
@lazur1 If you think AH is above SL you don't get what Shawn is doing. It's as simple as that. It's not rude or uncalled for, but a simple truth. It's like saying Coltrane was above Eric Dolphy. I've never tried to say that SL was above AH in anyway, but rather that he was an important inovator who took the techniques legato and picking to a whole new level that no one had done. You were claiming no one had gone beyond the people you wrote down, and it's wrong and close minded. That's it.
Back to the debate: My post: No one's evolved the tech of legato (only) guitar beyond AH. Your post: Not true. I gave SL credit with unsurpassed hybrid tech. Legato , (tho when being invoked is -lack- of picking), is part of that tech. But Shawn morphs from tech to tech whenever he feels like it. Preferring Lanes' hybrid style is fine, but his legato segments, isolated from any of his other techs, is obviously not an evolution of AH's technique.
Simple truth: Agreed on truth. This "truth" isn't simple & isn't agreed on. If I think you're an ass, I'll view this as truth, but 1/It has no place in a debate on any other matter, 2/It presumably isn't agreed on, & 3/It's rude. So I keep it to my self. We see fat ugly people every day, this is a simple truth. But it's still rude to tell them so. I'm not the subject. Don't change the subject. Unless that's your way of saying you don't want to argue anymore. In debates, that's called losing.
@lazur1 The fact is he did things with legato that Allan hadn't done so yes as a technique he did evolve it. It's not like it's only Allans technique. Shawn contributed to the world of legato as well with licks and ideas no one had done before. This doesn't mean that SL is above AH or even that his legato is more advanced, but simply that he took it in a new direction that no one had done including Allan. That's all there is to it.
Things? Be specific. Playing new riffs isn't evolving technique, & going in another direction isn't necessarily evolution. (If it were, all rebellious offspring'd be evolutions of their parents' species.) Sum total, Shawn evolved technique to the next level, & legato has its part in creating that total, but within isolated instances of its use without benefit of other techniques, Holdsworth's still the most recent evolution of legato. Please point out examples you believe show otherwise.
@lazur1 He used cross string hammer-ons to create a series of descending arpeggios. Holdsworth never took the cross sting hammer-on to that point. Sure he used it, but never to create a series of arpeggios that would otherwise be impossible to play at that speed. No matter what way you look at it it's an advancement for both the guitar and legato.
@Sunderlanding Point out a piece that exemplifies this. From your words alone, it surely doesn't seem like anything Allan hasn't done, (as he's played notes in about every order imaginable & unimaginable, at equally unimaginable speeds), but I'll reserve judgment.
@lazur1 I've got a book of his solos, and two DVD's and I'm 100% positive he never plays this kind of lick. If you're really interested just type Shawn Lane lesson into the YouTube search and watch it, and you'll eventually get to the part I'm talking about. The point is that innovation is always happening, and to say everything has been done before is extrodinarily close minded.
@Sunderlanding If you keep re-wording what I actually said into what you seem to think I meant, you'll always win that argument : Vs fictional opposition of your own creation. It's -not- what I posted , nor is it true to my intended meaning. If you want to understand what I meant, use my original post's exact words, and argue using those words. I'll go back to the clip that you suggest.
@lazur1 This isn't semantics class, but I did go back to read your orginal post and it was even worse than I remembered. First off you say no one has bettered such and such and all you're examples are 20 years old. So you really think no one is moving guitar forward anymore and everyone who did did it between 1960 and 1990? That's a pretty close minded point of view.
Yes, it's semantics class: You must argue w/ -my- words, not your own words -for- me. No one has bettered the legato technique of Holdsworth. Still true. You said it : "This doesn't mean SL is above AH, or even that his legato is more advanced". I looked thru clips w/ "Shawn Lane" & "lesson": Please be more specific: The most legato clip I found: "Get You Back", used considerable right hand, ie: less legato. I assume you mean another clip, but all I found used even more right hand than that.
@Sunderlanding Shawn's been dead almost 7 years: More than 1/3 of those 20 years you seem to think has so much meaning . Certainly you must see the successor to his crown on the horizon by now.
@mooch666 You may be offended that someone does not think Guthrie Govan is as good as you do but youre equally as ignorant putting down Buckethead. Buckethead to me is a genius and Shawn Lane clearly thought so too.
@mooch666 Youre death on right man... i mean, i love buckethead, the character the music the style and everything... and even thou its a pointless argue, this man right here, is probably the best guitar player alive and in history i might say.... with only one album and internet as a merch window he has achieved everyone in this fucking world to adore his music and praise him as"THE best"... without counting he is actually the coolest and most humble guy ever...
@Sunderlanding I know you are probably trolling, but incase you arn't the reason Guthrie is such an outstanding player, is that he has an incredible versatility, and outstanding control over tone. He has his own sound as well, you can hear that in his playing. Most metal shredders would not be able to play loose funk grooves, as they are just too tight for it, I've only heard a handful of shredders play other genres and styles like blues and country well and tastefully.
@Fluffypopcicle Wow! so u really think buckethead inveted tapping? dat is one of the most ignorant comments ever. No one know who invented tapping but all I know is dat it was inveted by jazz musicians long before buckethead was born. He is a good guitarist but his technique is far from da greats like Vai, Shane, Govan, n many others.
are you stupid? i said he invented his own form of 8 finger tapping, and i corrected my mistake in my first comment. i am fully aware that buckethead didn't invent tapping you poophead.
@pantarguitars Just cuz you dont like it, doesnt mean he isnt good. Last time I checked he played for Alcatrazz, David Lee Roth, and Whitesnake. Passion and Warfare album is one of the most creaitve and best intrumental albums ever man. 2x Platinum.
It is called sevens because of the time signature but as an analysed part it is 7/8 for half a bar and 7/4 for half a bar because of the drummers hi-hat pattern.
It's called seven because the time signature is in 7/8, he uses a lot of sevenths, he uses seven finger-tapping, and it's the seventh track on his album :)
he actually is doing 7 finger tapping because he's still holding the pick between his thumb and index finger. so he's using 4 fingers with the left hand and 3 with the right.
Why have people thumbed down this comment?!?!?!?! You're right mate, I play guitar, and I've met Guthrie, you're right, these losers haven't got a clue.
actually i believe clarencepogi was asking why it's called 7 finger tapping (because in one of his lessons, it's described as 8 finger tapping), not why the song is called sevens. reasons why sevens is named as such:
Hahah, an interval is... the "tonal distance" between two notes... so playing an E, then a B, is a fifth (since there are five "steps" between them). Playing an E and then a Bb, would make it a minor fifth, while playing and E then a D would be a minor seventh, while a D# would make a major seventh... I don't know how to explain it better :P Do note, if you play an E, a B, a D# and a G#, you'll have a beautiful Maj7 chord (Emaj7). E-B-D-G would make a minor seventh chord (Em7)... Enjoy :D
Actually fives is mostly sevenths as well. They're named fifths and sevenths because they use a 5/4 and 7/4 time signature respectively, not because of the intervals used.
I like to play Fives, and I swear to god, the intervals are all fifths and thirds (At least for the first few minutes)... The tapping part is fourths, however :P Don't know where you get the sevenths from :s
The intro riff is fifths, the solo part that kicks in next is in minor sevenths however (including the very fast tapping arp part). The part after the solo where he does the slower tapping riff is fourths.
The solo starts off in E-minor, then moves to A-minor, then quickly to Eb major - I cant really find too many sevenths in there, except for one (14th fret g-string to 15th fret on the e-string)... I cant really play the really fast tapping part, so I dont know the notes in it, but I wouldnt be surprised if its sevenths though :)
Not only is this song's time signature 7/4, but it's the seventh track of the album. Same with Fives: it's in 5/4, and it's the fifth track of the album.
I hate to admit it, but those suspended and pentatonic lines do sound better tapped. I still sweep, though, because I can't play stuff like "Giant Steps" or "Countdown" with two hands without losing my place. I bet Guthrie, Tony Mac, Greg Howe and John Wheatcroft can, though...
its actually called seven because of the 7-finger tapping. its called 7-finger tapping because he taps with three fingers on his right hand while hes tapping with four fingers on the left.
but then fives should be called sixes if we used that logic, because he uses his middle and ring to tap in that song. ALL HAIL GUTHRIE GOVAN!!!!!!!!!!
steve vai can do alot but after about 30 second vai gets really irritating. you cant even deny that. i mean hes good but his plaing gets uncomfortable on your ears quickly
steve vai can probably play it technically but he didn't came up with it. Saying Steve Vai's playing is irritating is f-ing retarted steve's an awesome musician and guitar player.
it's called sevens because its in 7
bronzehydra3 5 months ago
I think Jeff Loomis might be a better guitarist but thats just me and paul gilbert is a god
BeastAndTheHarlot100 7 months ago
i still love paul gilbert
lonegroable 7 months ago
@lonegroable Good for you my little teenage friend.
ABshookme 4 months ago
Jesus? you came back???
Leonelstudios27 7 months ago
Its called sevens cos its in 7/4 obviously.
ChainsawVsGod 8 months ago 6
is that his brother playing bass?
Ilikebench1 9 months ago
7/4 time signature. About 10's vs 11's? Only the first string is a 10 or 11. Drop your tuning to C# and maybe a 12 or 13 could be bent that far. He could be using a 15 for the 3rd string and another 10 for the 2nd string. Who knows. Each to his own. I build my own sets 44,34,24,16,11,10 and in full drop D tuning they can almost be too flexible. Drop tunings are cool but you better watch the left hand fret slap or you will be a buzzing fool.
i40gordy 1 year ago
you are so dumb if you don't know why
NaturalDrummer01 1 year ago
buckethead uses a wammy pedal to do strange scales that this guy does with out any help
scairyhairy 1 year ago
@scairyhairy why? is there a rule that using a pitch shifter makes a guitarist lesser?
guthrie govan is more musical than buckethead..
on the other hand
buckethead is more technical than guthrie..
both are great guitarist in their respective genres..
scrEMOhoLic044 1 year ago
@scrEMOhoLic044 More technical than Guthrie? No fucking way dude :)
dennoow 8 months ago
@scairyhairy dude fuck buckethead
alexrb26 1 year ago
@alexrb26 lol
scairyhairy 1 year ago
I'm pretty sure its a 4 or 5 finger tapping lick, depending on how u finger it, but the song title comes from three things:
The time signature is in 7.
The tapping section consists of arpegiations of Maj 7 chords
It is the 7th track on the record
atylerplai 1 year ago
I cannot simply believe that this guy uses .10 gauge strings and do those bends. Is it actually possible?
williamindragunawan 1 year ago
@williamindragunawan seriously? its not hard to bend tens. i bend those with 11's. it doesnt really make that much of a difference.
ShredFever92 1 year ago
What's he doing with his right hand at 0:56?
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 adjusting the hairtie
huggybear8374 1 year ago
@lazur1
i think hes getting another pick
howycwap 1 year ago
@lazur1 he is putting the string dampener (hair tie) from behind the nut and onto the actual neck. you can clearly see this happen in a video from the NAMM 2010 performance of this song. he is such a badass
AbeLincoln5150 1 year ago
@AbeLincoln5150
yes he is, and i realized he did that after the comment,. swhoopsies
howycwap 1 year ago
Getting back to the point: Govan isn't the premier player at any isolated component of his style: If you put Carlton, Holdsworth, Gilbert, Jordan up there, they'd each top him at their specialty. BUT he can do each style quite well, not merely versatility, but the foundation for his own style. Right now Govan is the guy to call if you're not sure what you want: He'll lay it all out & you decide.The downside is his own style right now is a bit 'kitchen-sink', but that will improve over time.
lazur1 1 year ago
Why does the commend about diminished fifths have seventeen thumbs? Are 17 people actually excited about that?
ninjaaron 1 year ago
it's 7/8, not 7/4. guthrie forever!
Travybakersk8er 1 year ago
its sevens cause its in 7/4 just like how fives is in 5/4
robostomo1 1 year ago
@ImmolateThyLord Are you dense? Or can't you read? I said I constantly troll his videos waiting for a good reason to hold him in high regard. So far zippo. I'm starting to think that all his fans are musical idiots.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
it's called 7 cuz is a 7/4 time signature
korntwist1 2 years ago 2
nice, but buckethead tap with all 8 fingers on one string. im not saying buckethead is better than guithrie, but this isn't the most technically advanced tapping i have seen.
Fluffypopcicle 2 years ago
@Fluffypopcicle yea bucketheads tapping is not hard. hes not that good either. buckethead is way overrated.
PaulGilbertIsGod2 2 years ago
are you serious? buckethead had has come out with 29 solo albums and has been featured in over one hundred. he invented the tapping technique too. he can play everything from weird experimental crap like elephant mans alarm clock, to epic masterpieces like final wars, to emotional masterpieces like for mom, i love my parents, and padmasana, to crazy shred. buckethead is far from overrated, in fact he is one of the most underrated guitarists of all time.
Fluffypopcicle 2 years ago
@Fluffypopcicle just because the guy shits out instrumental albums doesn't make him great. he's alright. his technique is far from the best.
PaulGilbertIsGod2 2 years ago
i never said his technique was the best, i said he wasn't overrated. just look up shadows between the sky to see what im talking about. that's what his good music sounds like (or at least a good example of it).
Fluffypopcicle 2 years ago
His technique is as good as Govan's. At least Buckethead doesn't have to use a string dampener to play this cheesy ass shit.
Sunderlanding 2 years ago
hah, get the fuck out of here. you have no idea. this guys atleast 100 times better than buckethead. his tapping doesnt require dampening. you sir have no idea what good guitar technique is.
PaulGilbertIsGod2 2 years ago
Ok maestro if you know so much how is Govans tapping more advanced then Bucketheads? What is he doing that you "have" to have a dampener for and what is Buckethead doing that is so easy it doesn't require the use of one?
Sunderlanding 2 years ago
@Sunderlanding Get out of here troll You make buckethead look bad you and all of his stupid zombie followers.....I love bucket to death but there seems to be people that don't know when to accept someone else as superior....
TheWhocares233 1 year ago
@TheWhocares233 So why is Guthrie better? He's never done anything new musicaly. He's not faster. He has no new techniques. What is it that makes him superior?
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding Its completely obvious that i could list every reason and the world and you would continue to troll...but here they are anyways....all i ask is you listen to the tapping part of this song... then the intro of waves....That is all i need to say to show he is superior...
TheWhocares233 1 year ago
@TheWhocares233 What? The tapping part? Really? That's the best you can come up with. It's just diatonic crap man. People have been tapping like that since the 80's. I could come up with a better example than that, and I don't even like his playing.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding Then come up with one dude...I saw you trolling a shawn lane video too i believe you must be pretty good to be trolling such amazing players.
TheWhocares233 1 year ago
@TheWhocares233 Are you nuts? Shawn Lane is one of my favourite guitarists of all time. You must have misread my post, because I would never say anything bad about his playing. Oh and by the way I have. Many times.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding Well than.. i don't see why you are so intent on making fun of govan when you actually like good players like lane and bucket etc. Govan is a great song writer and player =\
TheWhocares233 1 year ago
@TheWhocares233 I just don't get it man. Why are people so excited about his playing. He isn't doing anything that hasn't been done before, both technically and musically. And honestly good songs? His songs sound like they'd be more at home on a Top Gun soundtrack than a collection of great music. It's all cliches put into motion as a delivery system for his shred. I don't see anything musically relevent in his playing.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding are you serious ? hasn't done anything that hasn't been done before ? maybe with guys like holdsworth and shawn lane. but most guitarists don't hold a candle to guthrie, he has complete control over the instrument. and if you think buckethead is better player or musician you should be executed via firing squad.
mooch666 1 year ago 23
@mooch666 Seriously dude what has he done? All his chord progressions are just generic crap, plus his scale choices are always the most predictable cheesy shit. Technically he hasn't created any new techniques or taken any existing techniques up a level. He's just another shredder. Buckethead has challenged chord/scale realtionships that we know, and developed several new approaches to common shred techniques. He is by far the better musician.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding aaaaaaaaaahahaahaahahaaahaahhaah....buckethead....aaaaaaaahahhhahahahahahhahah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KonkreteXXX 1 year ago
I enjoy Govan, Bucket & many new virtuosos, but has anyone evolved the tapping of Jordan '82, legato of Holdsworth '69, sweep-picking of Gambale '84, alternate picking of DiMeola '74, hybrid picking of Lane '92, harmonics of Lenny Breau '68, string-bending of Beck '66, or put it all together w/effects more musically than Hendrix's "Axis Bold as Love"? I don't think so. (Some may be faster, no big deal.) But they've found original ways to use & combine techniques to make great new music.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 Not true. Lot's of people have expanded on all those and more.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding Name one.
lazur1 1 year ago
I enjoy the new virtuosos, but no one's bettered the tapping of Jordan '82, legato of Holdsworth '69, sweeping of Gambale '84, alternate picking of DiMeola '74, hybrid picking of Lane '92, harmonics of Breau '68, bending of Beck' 66, blues-pop of Clapton w/the Beatles, jazz-pop of Carlton w/Steely Dan, jazz of Wes Montgomery, or the perfect music of "Axis Bold as Love". (Some are faster, big deal.) But they've found original ways to use & combine techniques to make great new music.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 Shawn Lane. Took legato and alternate picking to a whole new level.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
I added Lane before I saw your response, but NOT for alternate picking: He adds fingers to alternate picking: Hybrid picking, plus sweeps & legato. SL's legato compared to AH's? You should research what Shawn himself thought. He idolized AH to the end & had clearly stated that AH's stuff was more advanced than his would ever be. AH solos use as little right hand as possible. A huge fingerspan enables 4-note per-string scale-forms: less picking's required: The God of Legato. Shawn & I agree.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 I realize Shawn was into Holdsworth, and Holdsworth is a true great, but the fact remains that Shawn built off of his legato playing. It's a fact and that's it. His diminished and augmented pull off licks were never played by anyone before him, and that technique is quite revolutionary. Not only that, but Shawn took inside picking to a whole new level, way beyond what Paul Gilbert or Al Dimeola were doing. No way you slice it he revolutionized guitar.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
SL's a perfect example of what I said,(tho I -did- give him credit as an innovator): He combined legato w/alt-pick & sweeps into original concepts. His dim & aug stuff's based on a simplified form of AH's encyclopedic use of symmetrical scales.The only reason AH didn't use some of SLs legato lines before him: He was already beyond it. You can find Lane articles where he virtually says this. Aside from that, of course SL has plenty original licks; hardly the same as surpassing AH's legato!
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 All guitar players say there idols are beyond them. It's a form of respect. I'm sure Allan would say the same about his idols.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
Can't argue w/how you choose to interpret SL's words, but his words themselves state he'd never reach the sophistication of AH & he didn't fully grasp what AH was doing. AH never said that of anyone: Closest he came was crediting Coltrane as inspiration to leave rules behind & that guitar can't express melody as well as sax. As a guitarist for 45yrs, I know SL's virtuosity is other-wordly, but I often grasp its musical foundation . Most of the time I can't even tell what scale AH's using.
lazur1 1 year ago
To paraphrase John McLaughlin: "I'd play like Allan Holdsworth, if I could, but I can't."
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 Actually I have that interview and Holdsworth says the same thing of McLaughlin immediately after. Goes against everything you said earlier. All those guys compliment one another it doesn't mean anything. What you look at is their playing, and if you analyze that you'll see Lane did things Holdsworth didn't do that were built from stuff he did. It's as simple as that.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
Please direct me to that interview: I was referring to 2 solo interviews, not 1 after the other. SL combined many techs w/legato to do things AH didn't, & played legato riffs that AH didn't: That's not the same thing as taking legato as a concept further than AH. SL's accounts of astonishment at AH go well beyond mere compliments. He was an AH FREAK. I -have- analyzed SL's solos, well enough to play some of them, -slowly-, but I've failed to analyze AH's solos well enough to play them at all.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 Guitar Player October, 2005 page 76. -When asked if they ever listen to one another and think "I should do that sort of thing". Allan: I would if I could but every time I hear John play I want to get a proper job. John: I would if I could but I haven't the faintest idea what Allan is doing. Allan: Neither do I.- Now if we run on you're logic we can assume: John is better than Allan, Allan is better than John, and Allan doesn't know anything about guitar.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding Thanks
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 Once again what they say doesn't matter, these are musicians for fuck's sake, but rather what they play. Futhermore I never said he took it further, but that he built off of what Allan had done. He went in a different direction not futher down the same one. Understand? And I've analyzed both of their solos and saying Allan is more advanced shows no understanding of what Shawn was doing.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding That's cool, but my original statement was that no one's taken legato further than Allan. Sorry you had to end on a personal note. Obviously I disagree
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 End on a personal note? Are you even reading what I'm writting? I don't know where you got that, or where you got that he took legato further than Allan. He built off of what Allan did and made something totally new, which was the point at the very beginning. I suggest you go back and re-read the posts because you've obviously missed something.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
Explain what I missed:1/I originally said no one's "evolved", (the technique of), legato further than AH. You originally said "not true". Now you say SL built something new & original off of AH, which is in agreement with what i've said all along: New & original musically but not any more evolved as far as legato itself's concerned 2/"...shows no understanding of what Shawn's doing.": That's uncalled for. Obviously we disagree: I could say same of you & what AH's done. What does that accomplish?
lazur1 1 year ago
Apparently internet debate's such a different animal that telling opposition they "show(s) no understanding of (the subject)" is considered a legitimate point. It is not. Nor is accusing opposition of not paying attention. In real life, such remarks are personal insults. i believe an impartial observer would agree I've paid good attention to your arguments, & that I've reasonably indicated an understanding of Lane's work that is, -at worst-, well above average. Your remarks -are-"personal".
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 If you think AH is above SL you don't get what Shawn is doing. It's as simple as that. It's not rude or uncalled for, but a simple truth. It's like saying Coltrane was above Eric Dolphy. I've never tried to say that SL was above AH in anyway, but rather that he was an important inovator who took the techniques legato and picking to a whole new level that no one had done. You were claiming no one had gone beyond the people you wrote down, and it's wrong and close minded. That's it.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
Back to the debate: My post: No one's evolved the tech of legato (only) guitar beyond AH. Your post: Not true. I gave SL credit with unsurpassed hybrid tech. Legato , (tho when being invoked is -lack- of picking), is part of that tech. But Shawn morphs from tech to tech whenever he feels like it. Preferring Lanes' hybrid style is fine, but his legato segments, isolated from any of his other techs, is obviously not an evolution of AH's technique.
lazur1 1 year ago
Simple truth: Agreed on truth. This "truth" isn't simple & isn't agreed on. If I think you're an ass, I'll view this as truth, but 1/It has no place in a debate on any other matter, 2/It presumably isn't agreed on, & 3/It's rude. So I keep it to my self. We see fat ugly people every day, this is a simple truth. But it's still rude to tell them so. I'm not the subject. Don't change the subject. Unless that's your way of saying you don't want to argue anymore. In debates, that's called losing.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 The fact is he did things with legato that Allan hadn't done so yes as a technique he did evolve it. It's not like it's only Allans technique. Shawn contributed to the world of legato as well with licks and ideas no one had done before. This doesn't mean that SL is above AH or even that his legato is more advanced, but simply that he took it in a new direction that no one had done including Allan. That's all there is to it.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
Things? Be specific. Playing new riffs isn't evolving technique, & going in another direction isn't necessarily evolution. (If it were, all rebellious offspring'd be evolutions of their parents' species.) Sum total, Shawn evolved technique to the next level, & legato has its part in creating that total, but within isolated instances of its use without benefit of other techniques, Holdsworth's still the most recent evolution of legato. Please point out examples you believe show otherwise.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 He used cross string hammer-ons to create a series of descending arpeggios. Holdsworth never took the cross sting hammer-on to that point. Sure he used it, but never to create a series of arpeggios that would otherwise be impossible to play at that speed. No matter what way you look at it it's an advancement for both the guitar and legato.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding Point out a piece that exemplifies this. From your words alone, it surely doesn't seem like anything Allan hasn't done, (as he's played notes in about every order imaginable & unimaginable, at equally unimaginable speeds), but I'll reserve judgment.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 I've got a book of his solos, and two DVD's and I'm 100% positive he never plays this kind of lick. If you're really interested just type Shawn Lane lesson into the YouTube search and watch it, and you'll eventually get to the part I'm talking about. The point is that innovation is always happening, and to say everything has been done before is extrodinarily close minded.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding If you keep re-wording what I actually said into what you seem to think I meant, you'll always win that argument : Vs fictional opposition of your own creation. It's -not- what I posted , nor is it true to my intended meaning. If you want to understand what I meant, use my original post's exact words, and argue using those words. I'll go back to the clip that you suggest.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 This isn't semantics class, but I did go back to read your orginal post and it was even worse than I remembered. First off you say no one has bettered such and such and all you're examples are 20 years old. So you really think no one is moving guitar forward anymore and everyone who did did it between 1960 and 1990? That's a pretty close minded point of view.
Sunderlanding 1 year ago
Yes, it's semantics class: You must argue w/ -my- words, not your own words -for- me. No one has bettered the legato technique of Holdsworth. Still true. You said it : "This doesn't mean SL is above AH, or even that his legato is more advanced". I looked thru clips w/ "Shawn Lane" & "lesson": Please be more specific: The most legato clip I found: "Get You Back", used considerable right hand, ie: less legato. I assume you mean another clip, but all I found used even more right hand than that.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 wow youve really filled up this page with annoying comments, havent you?
ShredFever92 1 year ago
@ShredFever92 Fair Warning: Make this about me, & I'll be compelled to make it about you. You already know how 'annoying' I can be, so you decide.
lazur1 1 year ago
@lazur1 um what are you talking about? make it about me? okay guy... whaever
ShredFever92 1 year ago
@Sunderlanding Shawn's been dead almost 7 years: More than 1/3 of those 20 years you seem to think has so much meaning . Certainly you must see the successor to his crown on the horizon by now.
lazur1 1 year ago
@mooch666 You may be offended that someone does not think Guthrie Govan is as good as you do but youre equally as ignorant putting down Buckethead. Buckethead to me is a genius and Shawn Lane clearly thought so too.
MetalCrossUK 1 year ago
@mooch666 Unfortunately millions of ignorant people believe so. It makes me sad.
mashafasha5 1 year ago
@mooch666 firing squad when they only have flamethrowers
treykilgoreiscool 1 year ago
@mooch666 Youre death on right man... i mean, i love buckethead, the character the music the style and everything... and even thou its a pointless argue, this man right here, is probably the best guitar player alive and in history i might say.... with only one album and internet as a merch window he has achieved everyone in this fucking world to adore his music and praise him as"THE best"... without counting he is actually the coolest and most humble guy ever...
Timmonsec 1 year ago 8
This has been flagged as spam show
@Timmonsec There`s a a lot of players who can play better than Guthrie Govan. This is not impressive.
82mangini 4 months ago
@Sunderlanding I know you are probably trolling, but incase you arn't the reason Guthrie is such an outstanding player, is that he has an incredible versatility, and outstanding control over tone. He has his own sound as well, you can hear that in his playing. Most metal shredders would not be able to play loose funk grooves, as they are just too tight for it, I've only heard a handful of shredders play other genres and styles like blues and country well and tastefully.
cerelilqt 1 year ago
@Fluffypopcicle hold on, did you say he invented tapping? wow
Esharp727 2 years ago
@Esharp727
no i didn't you dumbass, i said he invented his own form of 8 finger tapping on one string. read the fucking comment before looking like a dumbass.
Fluffypopcicle 2 years ago
@Fluffypopcicle no need to get angry over youtube dude, quote "he invented the tapping technique too", easy to misunderstand
Esharp727 2 years ago
@Esharp727
lol my bad, i left out an entire sentence. sorry for blowing up on you :P
Fluffypopcicle 2 years ago
@Fluffypopcicle Wow! so u really think buckethead inveted tapping? dat is one of the most ignorant comments ever. No one know who invented tapping but all I know is dat it was inveted by jazz musicians long before buckethead was born. He is a good guitarist but his technique is far from da greats like Vai, Shane, Govan, n many others.
francisco444 2 years ago
@francisco444
are you stupid? i said he invented his own form of 8 finger tapping, and i corrected my mistake in my first comment. i am fully aware that buckethead didn't invent tapping you poophead.
Fluffypopcicle 2 years ago
@francisco444 vai bites never heard anything fdrom him that was good
pantarguitars 2 years ago
@pantarguitars Just cuz you dont like it, doesnt mean he isnt good. Last time I checked he played for Alcatrazz, David Lee Roth, and Whitesnake. Passion and Warfare album is one of the most creaitve and best intrumental albums ever man. 2x Platinum.
francisco444 2 years ago
It is called sevens because of the time signature but as an analysed part it is 7/8 for half a bar and 7/4 for half a bar because of the drummers hi-hat pattern.
wackojacko18 2 years ago
Those Cornford amps sound amazing...
Sicilianu27 2 years ago 2
the time signature is 7/4
fives is 5/4
try counting it...
Soulfulshreddify 2 years ago 9
Yep, Right!
sazsaz1010 2 years ago
some one told me its called sevens because of the time signature is 7/8
destroyer058 2 years ago 12
@destroyer058 Yeah that's why. Just like how his song "fives" is in 5/4 time.
Theblob516 1 year ago
@destroyer058 7/4 i think
shenkeey 1 year ago
@destroyer058
7/4
jreynoldswrap 1 year ago
he uses alot of stuff here, but the reason its called sevens is cause of the time sig, same with "Fives"
viddelt 2 years ago 2
its not 7-finger tapping its seven finger-tapping (finger tapping from the song seven)
pspsean 2 years ago
actually it IS 7-finger-tapping and pick tapping combined ;P
fullofblood 2 years ago
Comment removed
Achtelnote 2 years ago
It's 7/4 not 7/8.
alexprincel 2 years ago
So right alex. i don't get why i found a thumb down on your comment? its abnormal to count eighth notes that slow!
tonyflow666 2 years ago
i dont care about the video the audio is awesome and so pleasing to the ear!!!i'm favoriting this
fullofblood 2 years ago
It's called seven because the time signature is in 7/8, he uses a lot of sevenths, he uses seven finger-tapping, and it's the seventh track on his album :)
FenderBender93 2 years ago
lol was this a video because it just seems like a slideshow of pictures because the framerate of the video is so low.
JSatriani222 2 years ago
upload that video properly man, cant see any of the tapping
Volkanius 2 years ago
Isn't it called sevens because the time signature is 7/4?
seandog1234 2 years ago 39
yes
feelee15 2 years ago
isn't it 7/8?
i know fives is called fives cause of all the fiths in it (intervals) and also the time sig is in 5/4.
bertobgood2 2 years ago
and its the 7th track on the erotic cakes album
MoonBoy1200 2 years ago
@seandog1234 yes, same with fives in 5/4
mooch666 1 year ago
he actually is doing 7 finger tapping because he's still holding the pick between his thumb and index finger. so he's using 4 fingers with the left hand and 3 with the right.
leekwesi 2 years ago 8
Why have people thumbed down this comment?!?!?!?! You're right mate, I play guitar, and I've met Guthrie, you're right, these losers haven't got a clue.
hairy0pothead 2 years ago 3
its because of the relative time sigs, and also each song resides on the appropriate track number.
DUHH
00Dakka 2 years ago
Great technique!
theothecoolguy 3 years ago
actually i believe clarencepogi was asking why it's called 7 finger tapping (because in one of his lessons, it's described as 8 finger tapping), not why the song is called sevens. reasons why sevens is named as such:
1) time signature 7/4 (obviously)
2) seventh track on album.
indeed.
kewl2006 3 years ago
It also has something to do with the intervals he's using, its alot of seventh's there, just as he's using alot of fifths in Fives :)
MetalMonta 3 years ago
yeah i heard people say that, but frankly i don't know what that means, so i didn't say anything about it lol
kewl2006 3 years ago
Hahah, an interval is... the "tonal distance" between two notes... so playing an E, then a B, is a fifth (since there are five "steps" between them). Playing an E and then a Bb, would make it a minor fifth, while playing and E then a D would be a minor seventh, while a D# would make a major seventh... I don't know how to explain it better :P Do note, if you play an E, a B, a D# and a G#, you'll have a beautiful Maj7 chord (Emaj7). E-B-D-G would make a minor seventh chord (Em7)... Enjoy :D
MetalMonta 3 years ago 3
There is no such thing as a "minor fifth" it is called a diminished fifth. Perfect intervals cannot be minor or major.
griffguitaribanez 2 years ago 23
Sorry then, we call it a minor fifth in norwegian (Or an augmented fourth) - I'm just not that good at translating musical expressions :P
MetalMonta 2 years ago 4
@griffguitaribanez NERD!!!!!
meluaz 1 year ago
@griffguitaribanez
That's for western music.
A "minor 5th" is a quarter-tone less then a 5th.
DrSlaggleberryUK 1 year ago
Actually fives is mostly sevenths as well. They're named fifths and sevenths because they use a 5/4 and 7/4 time signature respectively, not because of the intervals used.
parlancex 3 years ago 5
I like to play Fives, and I swear to god, the intervals are all fifths and thirds (At least for the first few minutes)... The tapping part is fourths, however :P Don't know where you get the sevenths from :s
MetalMonta 3 years ago
The intro riff is fifths, the solo part that kicks in next is in minor sevenths however (including the very fast tapping arp part). The part after the solo where he does the slower tapping riff is fourths.
parlancex 3 years ago
The solo starts off in E-minor, then moves to A-minor, then quickly to Eb major - I cant really find too many sevenths in there, except for one (14th fret g-string to 15th fret on the e-string)... I cant really play the really fast tapping part, so I dont know the notes in it, but I wouldnt be surprised if its sevenths though :)
MetalMonta 3 years ago
It's in G Minor, and moves to C minor.
Yeah tapping part uses maj7 and Min11 arpeggios
UncleRob199 2 years ago
Not only is this song's time signature 7/4, but it's the seventh track of the album. Same with Fives: it's in 5/4, and it's the fifth track of the album.
FutabaUploader 3 years ago
The technique he's using IS seven-finger tapping, cause when he's tapping he doesn't use his index-finger; he needs it to hold his pick.
phozk 3 years ago
I hate to admit it, but those suspended and pentatonic lines do sound better tapped. I still sweep, though, because I can't play stuff like "Giant Steps" or "Countdown" with two hands without losing my place. I bet Guthrie, Tony Mac, Greg Howe and John Wheatcroft can, though...
Modes9 3 years ago
reason for it being called 7 is cuz it in 7/4
even though this tapping section is AMAZING
KEEP POSTING CHEERS :)
afroshredder 3 years ago
theres a lot of seventh harmony in sevens, as is there fifths harmony in fives.
0mgh4xftw 3 years ago
ye of course its 7/4...just like "fives" is in 5/4
his vids are 5/5 ;)
musicbymax 3 years ago 10
this guy is pure fucking man
wearelions210 3 years ago 3
i agree with 7/4
blackmaxlars 3 years ago
it's in 7/4. count it.
largemoose 3 years ago
yeah, the reason it's called sevens is because of the time signature, as is fives.
kewl2006 3 years ago
By the way, it is called Sevens because the tune is in 7/4
JazzLOCO 3 years ago 3
its actually called seven because of the 7-finger tapping. its called 7-finger tapping because he taps with three fingers on his right hand while hes tapping with four fingers on the left.
xPLDxPunisher 3 years ago
the tune is in 7/4... Fives is in 5/4... I assumed.. but then again they say: assume makes an "ass" of "u" and "me" xD
JazzLOCO 3 years ago 3
lol. i guess it really doesnt matter anyway. its still a great song.
xPLDxPunisher 3 years ago
lol, nice one!
BassThrasher 3 years ago
but then fives should be called sixes if we used that logic, because he uses his middle and ring to tap in that song. ALL HAIL GUTHRIE GOVAN!!!!!!!!!!
guitaralbert0 3 years ago
well, it is 7/8 actually. but yah, thats close.
BlackZ123 3 years ago 3
True that!
billmeedog 3 years ago
It all really depends on how Guthrie composed it xD
JazzLOCO 3 years ago 3
no, 7/4. if you are counting in eighth notes it would be a bar of 4/8 and a bar of 10/8 because on the accents in the phrase.
thejohnofsteel 3 years ago
7/4
Airwave99 3 years ago 3
Dude, both Vai and Govan are animals!!! I am not worthy! xD
JazzLOCO 3 years ago
It's good that this camera has 0.5 FPS lol
nozic11111 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He is great, agreed, but Steve Vai could easily do this.
NickEdelsteinBand 3 years ago
steve vai can do alot but after about 30 second vai gets really irritating. you cant even deny that. i mean hes good but his plaing gets uncomfortable on your ears quickly
JD0x0 3 years ago
steve vai can probably play it technically but he didn't came up with it. Saying Steve Vai's playing is irritating is f-ing retarted steve's an awesome musician and guitar player.
doedelie 3 years ago 6
You're right about this video, but Govan has it all over Vai as far as technique goes.
That isn't to denigrate Steve Vai at all.
Zebonka 3 years ago 4
no one on earth can do this besides him
beckerfanboy27 3 years ago
i beg to differ...? i can play the 7 fingered tapping :S
blueredfred2 3 years ago
is the seven track of the album
Giao1 3 years ago
yeah and the song Fives is in 5/4.
usually in music people call at lets play in 5 or lets play in 7 or lets play in 21 lol.
but it just means thats how many beats
rmw5991 3 years ago
its called seve becuase its in 7/4
vannnefrost 3 years ago 2