To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
Repugnant theology. What about all the people that died without hearing about Jesus in America , Europe and China? Until today people still didn't even hear about Jesus the God who died for sins.
@1MoreMuslim Are you pretending that Islam doesn't say that Allah created some people for heaven and other people for hell? And by your reasoning not only should a person reject the truth of the Gospel simply because not everyone hears the good news of eternal life through Christ alone, but they should also reject the existence of God because he created man to need food but many people die every year and every day from starvation.
@Ousias1 "Are you pretending that Islam doesn't say that Allah created some people for heaven and other people for hell?"
Yes of course, but that is not like the UNCONDITIONAL election. We don't have this inflexible criteria that makes almost everybody go to hell, and the remaining fraction including you, don't know if they have a saving faith, or a false faith. There is a crucial difference between dying because of starvation, and burning in Hell for eternity.
@Ousias1 That is without talking about where Paul says that those who worship idols before Jesus, are doing so, in ignorance and they have an excuse of doing it, but when Jesus came , they don't have that excuse anymore. Of Course that contradicts what he says in other place. But what you make of these contradictions? Well, we have dozens of denominations with massive confusion.
@1MoreMuslim Islam certainly does teach predestination, and your sources even say that Allah took every person out of Adam before their birth and said to one group they are going to burn in hell to the delight of Allah and to another group they are going to heaven where they will get all their carnal pleasures satisfied. We are even told in hadith that it doesn't matter if they believe and do good for their entire life; if Allah decreed for them to be damned, at the very end they will be lost.
@1MoreMuslim And the fact that their is a difference between physical death and eternal death is immaterial to the point of the analogy. Life in both cases is contingent upon something: in the former, it is contingent upon "our daily bread"; in the latter, it is contingent upon "the bread that came down out of heaven". Finally, there is no contradiction in what Paul said about God letting the nations go their own way prior to the coming of Christ. Your own sources admit that God especially...
@1MoreMuslim It may say "in another place" that there is no punishment for those who did not hear the message, but this contradicts other passages of the Qur'an which say that everyone had a warner and no one will appear before Allah with an excuse. Furthermore, Muhammad said his own father and mother were in hell even though they lived and died before Muhammad's "prophetic call". As for the alleged contradiction between Rom. 2 and Acts 17, you will have to do more than simply assert it.
@Ousias1 By the way, I love your little "freudian" slip: "...Everybody WITHOUT eyes can see it." Words truly spoken: Muslims are without eyes and yet they go about pretending to see things that really aren't there and are only in their imaginations.
@Ousias1 "As for the alleged contradiction between Rom. 2 and Acts 17, you will have to do more than simply assert it." What do I need more than to read it. It's just few sentences, don't make it into rocket science. One passage says that there is no excuse , the other says that ignorance are overlooked and a valid excuse. It's time to try to explain rather than use the magic formula " You don't understand".
@1MoreMuslim ....especially favored the Jewish nation. It was only to TWO nations (cough: Jews and Christians) that the book was previously given, and it was through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that God raised up prophets. When Jesus came, he was sent first to His people, but He was also sent as a sign for all people. The Qur'an even testifies that there were entire generations that had no warner to turn them away from idolatry.
@Ousias1 " The Qur'an even testifies that there were entire generations that had no warner to turn them away from idolatry." In another place it says no punishment for those who did not receive the message.. According to your rigid inflexible test, all of them will go to hell because they are ignorant. Even Paul agrees with Muslims in Romans 2, but unfortunately he contradicted himself in Acts 17.
I've studied election and predestination a bit. I love Shai Linne, and I think he is a great man of God. I don't believe what he believes about election. A loving God would not predestine people to eternal suffering. Look up these verses.
Where does the Bible say that a loving God would not predestine people to eternal suffering?
Does not the loving God also hate evil doers? See Psalm 5:5, Psalm 11:5. See Romans 9.
Who are you, O man, to assert that God is unjust to predestine people to hell or heaven? Humble yourself. God shows mercy on whomever He decides and He hardens whomever He decides.
So God decided that a couple of people were destined for Hell no matter what? He never even planned to make an attempt to reach out to them? He just left them without even the ability to repent but then punished them for not repenting? Somebody please clarify because right now this sounds like one of the most depressing doctrines ever devised.
Yes, God decided to save some people through the Gospel and He decided to allow the rest to have what they desire, namely hell. We all reject God and are by nature children of wrath and God haters (Ephesians 2; Romans 3). No one seeks for God. No one is good. Everyone wants hell by nature, but God, in His mercy chose to save some people through the Gospel (Read Romans 9). God does not punish people for not repenting. Instead, He punishes people for their sin and rejection of Him
@kyleotto44 I agree wholeheartedly Truth is Truth regardless of our feelings. I try to put mine aside and read into things as objectively as possible (acts 17:10-12). I've read Rom 9 a few times trying to wrap my head around the idea that God really would destine people for Hell. If He did fine, He's God who am I to fight him? I'm just not sure if it makes sense given what I know about His nature so far. As far as the people who end up in Hell, they end up there because they rejected God.
[I'm just not sure if it makes sense given what I know about His nature so far. As far as the people who end up in Hell, they end up there because they rejected God]
Yes, people end up in Hell b/c they not only inherit Adam's sin, but they personally willfully sin against God too.
God predestines people to heaven positively & actively working out salvation in His elect.
God predestines people to hell by simply allowing the non-elect to continue in their sin nature & choose hell.
@kyleotto44 That's on them. But I'm just not sure how it's fair that since men aren't even capable of choosing God without God saying so is it really fair for God to send them to Hell? It's like getting mad at someone who died from AIDS they got from their mother (I'm talking about original sin of Adam that started this whole thing) even though you had the cure and chose not to give them the cure or even the will to want it. Again it's not my intent to fight God if that's what it is fine,
[But I'm just not sure how it's fair that since men aren't even capable of choosing God without God saying so is it really fair for God to send them to Hell?]
This reaction of doubting God's fairness/justice means you rightly understand election [Rom 9:14-26]
Another way to think about it is that God, by "default" hates all men because all do evil [Psalm 5:5; Psalm 11:5]. He chooses, in His grace & mercy, to love and save some. He could choose to save all, but he doesn't.
@kyleotto44 so in short, God allowed Adam's fall that lead to everyone being born in sin. And without God willing it they don't even wanna be saved from the sin they were born in outside of their control and God's still gonna punish them anyway for acting out the sympotoms and there was nothing they could do about it. They're just destined to live a (at best) mediocre life on Earth then spend eternity in Hell. How is this good news? How do you know what group you fall into?
I know at first it sounds depressing, unjust, & unfair of God. Trust me, I felt the same way. I was angry about it at first & rejected & ignored the Bible when it came to Predestination. But, when we have that reaction, that means we are correctly understanding the doctrine because that is exactly how people responded in Romans 9 starting at verse 14 (Paul answers our questions about it). Just remember, the truthfulness of a doctrine is not based upon our feelings about it.
Thanks for making this video. Yeah, that is where I found the video, brandedministries YouTube channel and I decided to re-upload it as it was done so well! Thank you for making the video :)
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To ARMINIANS -Romans 11:32 "for God has shut up all to unbelief, that he might have mercy on all".
To CALVINISTS -1 Timothy 4:10"for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of ALL MEN ESPECIALLY y of those believing."
DOUBTERS I Cor. 15:23-28"But every man in his own order:..For He must reign until He has put all enemies under His feet..last enemy...destroyed is DEATH... Son also Himself be subject unto Him..that God may be ALL IN ALL"
motibi 6 months ago
Comment removed
murrayv08 6 months ago
Repugnant theology. What about all the people that died without hearing about Jesus in America , Europe and China? Until today people still didn't even hear about Jesus the God who died for sins.
1MoreMuslim 8 months ago
@1MoreMuslim Are you pretending that Islam doesn't say that Allah created some people for heaven and other people for hell? And by your reasoning not only should a person reject the truth of the Gospel simply because not everyone hears the good news of eternal life through Christ alone, but they should also reject the existence of God because he created man to need food but many people die every year and every day from starvation.
Ousias1 7 months ago
@Ousias1 "Are you pretending that Islam doesn't say that Allah created some people for heaven and other people for hell?"
Yes of course, but that is not like the UNCONDITIONAL election. We don't have this inflexible criteria that makes almost everybody go to hell, and the remaining fraction including you, don't know if they have a saving faith, or a false faith. There is a crucial difference between dying because of starvation, and burning in Hell for eternity.
1MoreMuslim 7 months ago
@Ousias1 That is without talking about where Paul says that those who worship idols before Jesus, are doing so, in ignorance and they have an excuse of doing it, but when Jesus came , they don't have that excuse anymore. Of Course that contradicts what he says in other place. But what you make of these contradictions? Well, we have dozens of denominations with massive confusion.
1MoreMuslim 7 months ago
@1MoreMuslim Islam certainly does teach predestination, and your sources even say that Allah took every person out of Adam before their birth and said to one group they are going to burn in hell to the delight of Allah and to another group they are going to heaven where they will get all their carnal pleasures satisfied. We are even told in hadith that it doesn't matter if they believe and do good for their entire life; if Allah decreed for them to be damned, at the very end they will be lost.
Ousias1 7 months ago
@1MoreMuslim And the fact that their is a difference between physical death and eternal death is immaterial to the point of the analogy. Life in both cases is contingent upon something: in the former, it is contingent upon "our daily bread"; in the latter, it is contingent upon "the bread that came down out of heaven". Finally, there is no contradiction in what Paul said about God letting the nations go their own way prior to the coming of Christ. Your own sources admit that God especially...
Ousias1 7 months ago
@Ousias1 There is a contradiction between Romans 2 and Acts 17, everybody without eyes can see it.
1MoreMuslim 7 months ago
@1MoreMuslim It may say "in another place" that there is no punishment for those who did not hear the message, but this contradicts other passages of the Qur'an which say that everyone had a warner and no one will appear before Allah with an excuse. Furthermore, Muhammad said his own father and mother were in hell even though they lived and died before Muhammad's "prophetic call". As for the alleged contradiction between Rom. 2 and Acts 17, you will have to do more than simply assert it.
Ousias1 7 months ago
@Ousias1 By the way, I love your little "freudian" slip: "...Everybody WITHOUT eyes can see it." Words truly spoken: Muslims are without eyes and yet they go about pretending to see things that really aren't there and are only in their imaginations.
Ousias1 7 months ago
@Ousias1 "As for the alleged contradiction between Rom. 2 and Acts 17, you will have to do more than simply assert it." What do I need more than to read it. It's just few sentences, don't make it into rocket science. One passage says that there is no excuse , the other says that ignorance are overlooked and a valid excuse. It's time to try to explain rather than use the magic formula " You don't understand".
1MoreMuslim 7 months ago
@1MoreMuslim ....especially favored the Jewish nation. It was only to TWO nations (cough: Jews and Christians) that the book was previously given, and it was through Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that God raised up prophets. When Jesus came, he was sent first to His people, but He was also sent as a sign for all people. The Qur'an even testifies that there were entire generations that had no warner to turn them away from idolatry.
Ousias1 7 months ago
@Ousias1 " The Qur'an even testifies that there were entire generations that had no warner to turn them away from idolatry." In another place it says no punishment for those who did not receive the message.. According to your rigid inflexible test, all of them will go to hell because they are ignorant. Even Paul agrees with Muslims in Romans 2, but unfortunately he contradicted himself in Acts 17.
1MoreMuslim 7 months ago
Aww man you can tell this rapper listens to alot of James White.I mean all he says is what i learned from James White which is good
ctsfinestjon 8 months ago
HAHAHA. This is incredible! It's about time right theology met so appropriate a medium as this.
JeremyLundmark 10 months ago
Shai linne is genius. pure genius. 'nuff said.
makewar17 11 months ago 2
I've studied election and predestination a bit. I love Shai Linne, and I think he is a great man of God. I don't believe what he believes about election. A loving God would not predestine people to eternal suffering. Look up these verses.
jonmarcmondor 1 year ago
@jonmarcmondor
Where does the Bible say that a loving God would not predestine people to eternal suffering?
Does not the loving God also hate evil doers? See Psalm 5:5, Psalm 11:5. See Romans 9.
Who are you, O man, to assert that God is unjust to predestine people to hell or heaven? Humble yourself. God shows mercy on whomever He decides and He hardens whomever He decides.
Glory to God for the grace of God in the Gospel.
kyleotto44 1 year ago 4
So God decided that a couple of people were destined for Hell no matter what? He never even planned to make an attempt to reach out to them? He just left them without even the ability to repent but then punished them for not repenting? Somebody please clarify because right now this sounds like one of the most depressing doctrines ever devised.
kinduvabigdeal 1 year ago
@kinduvabigdeal
Yes, God decided to save some people through the Gospel and He decided to allow the rest to have what they desire, namely hell. We all reject God and are by nature children of wrath and God haters (Ephesians 2; Romans 3). No one seeks for God. No one is good. Everyone wants hell by nature, but God, in His mercy chose to save some people through the Gospel (Read Romans 9). God does not punish people for not repenting. Instead, He punishes people for their sin and rejection of Him
kyleotto44 1 year ago
@kyleotto44 I agree wholeheartedly Truth is Truth regardless of our feelings. I try to put mine aside and read into things as objectively as possible (acts 17:10-12). I've read Rom 9 a few times trying to wrap my head around the idea that God really would destine people for Hell. If He did fine, He's God who am I to fight him? I'm just not sure if it makes sense given what I know about His nature so far. As far as the people who end up in Hell, they end up there because they rejected God.
kinduvabigdeal 1 year ago
@kinduvabigdeal
[I'm just not sure if it makes sense given what I know about His nature so far. As far as the people who end up in Hell, they end up there because they rejected God]
Yes, people end up in Hell b/c they not only inherit Adam's sin, but they personally willfully sin against God too.
God predestines people to heaven positively & actively working out salvation in His elect.
God predestines people to hell by simply allowing the non-elect to continue in their sin nature & choose hell.
kyleotto44 1 year ago
@kyleotto44 That's on them. But I'm just not sure how it's fair that since men aren't even capable of choosing God without God saying so is it really fair for God to send them to Hell? It's like getting mad at someone who died from AIDS they got from their mother (I'm talking about original sin of Adam that started this whole thing) even though you had the cure and chose not to give them the cure or even the will to want it. Again it's not my intent to fight God if that's what it is fine,
kinduvabigdeal 1 year ago
@kinduvabigdeal
[But I'm just not sure how it's fair that since men aren't even capable of choosing God without God saying so is it really fair for God to send them to Hell?]
This reaction of doubting God's fairness/justice means you rightly understand election [Rom 9:14-26]
Another way to think about it is that God, by "default" hates all men because all do evil [Psalm 5:5; Psalm 11:5]. He chooses, in His grace & mercy, to love and save some. He could choose to save all, but he doesn't.
kyleotto44 1 year ago
@kyleotto44 so in short, God allowed Adam's fall that lead to everyone being born in sin. And without God willing it they don't even wanna be saved from the sin they were born in outside of their control and God's still gonna punish them anyway for acting out the sympotoms and there was nothing they could do about it. They're just destined to live a (at best) mediocre life on Earth then spend eternity in Hell. How is this good news? How do you know what group you fall into?
kinduvabigdeal 1 year ago
@kinduvabigdeal
I sent you a message as the response is more than the allowed amount of characters.
kyleotto44 1 year ago
@kinduvabigdeal
I know at first it sounds depressing, unjust, & unfair of God. Trust me, I felt the same way. I was angry about it at first & rejected & ignored the Bible when it came to Predestination. But, when we have that reaction, that means we are correctly understanding the doctrine because that is exactly how people responded in Romans 9 starting at verse 14 (Paul answers our questions about it). Just remember, the truthfulness of a doctrine is not based upon our feelings about it.
kyleotto44 1 year ago
Ha! Look at this! Do you know I made this little video for Drew? (he uploaded it to his brandedministries website). Do you know Drew?
kaiwinbot 2 years ago
@kaiwinbot
Thanks for making this video. Yeah, that is where I found the video, brandedministries YouTube channel and I decided to re-upload it as it was done so well! Thank you for making the video :)
Are you going to make more?
kyleotto44 2 years ago