Jim Wallis v Tony Perkins on CBS

[Whoseverwishes]

From what he says in this video Wallis certainly makes sense. In Britain we look over to the US with surprise to see Evangelical Christians being right wing politically, in Britain in general Evangelicals are left wing. Is it just the different politics in the countries or have we (evangelicals) got it wrong?

[mtgman33]

In turn, Wallis has made politics more important than the word of God. And in that case, he needs to leave the evangelical christian church and become a political activist!

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@mtgman33 That's ridiculous. It's not "politics," it's human justice, it's the most direct following of Jesus Christ. He IS following God.

[mtgman33]

I understand that Wallis wants to fight for the injustices of the world, what Christian wouldn't want to do that? The problem is that what he believes in and how he goes about it is not Biblical. The world's problems are not to be fixed by the power of man, it is supposed to be done by the power of God, but man has turned his back on God and therefore is incapable of doing the fixing. In turn, these Christians have become liberal and stray from Biblical teaching. Wallis is misleading so many!

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@mtgman33 Not being "biblical" doesn't mean it's not Christian. Slavery is biblical, brutal sexism is biblical, they are NOT Christian. The hard right with their sick homophobia are following man, not God. Liberals are NOT "straying," we are following God. Wallis isn't "misleading," anyone, he is repeating what Jesus Christ said. It's very telling when the bigots of the far right say (falsely) that their hate is "biblical" but not Christian. They're perverting the Bible, and Christ.

[MPernelle770]

People like Tony Perkins are some of the reasons I am an atheist. The world needs people like Jim Wallis.

[Goohuman]

I must agree with Wallis that we all should do good in the world. That was easy.

I guess the real question is: How?

Jim wants to do it through politics, wealth redistribution and policies from government. Jesus (and all the sane christians) stayed far away from government. In fact, it was government that sentenced Jesus (and all the sane christians) to death.

So, who's side are you on Mr Wallis?

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@Goohuman Vile, blasphemous lies. Jesus would ABSOLUTELY have stood with Wallis, Jesus called DIRECTLY and REPEATEDLY for economic justice.

What we have NOW is wealth redistribution--from the poor to the rich. THAT is wrong, and to fight against that and for a system of justice and equality is the ONLY Christian response.

It was NOT "Government" that sentenced Jesus to death, it was people who put obscure old purity codes ahead of love your neighbor.

Wallis is on the side of Jesus.

[Goohuman]

@PrisonerNumber9653 You use a lot of CAPS and say a lot of BS.

No one who has actually read the Bible is going to buy your baseless arguments. Jesus preached love for God and love for each other. To those that have more, more is expected. The government never comes into the picture. The Romans came to Jesus, He did not go to them (until the Pharasees dragged Him to Pontius Pilate).

Social justice is MAN'S version. GOD'S justice is personal and complete.

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@Goohuman Lie. I've read the Bible daily for decades, and there is NOTHING "baseless" in my arguments. Yes, Jesus preached love for one another, and that those who have more should share with others. "Government" is NOTHING but the reasonable tool to do so. Government DOES come into the picture for ANY Christian--we can have a government that follows Christian standards, or one that supports greed while killing people. NO Christian can support this.

Social justice IS God's justice.

[Goohuman]

@PrisonerNumber9653 It sounds like you would be in favor of changing the first amendment to allow our government to establish an official religion, yet you don't understand the basic tenants of Christianity, even though you "read the Bible daily for decades". Christ didn't call for a government to do the work he left for his followers. Do you recall when the Lord came on the Sabbath in Luke 6. Particularly 20-24? What did he say about giving to the government to give to charity?

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@Goohuman Wrong all all counts. I would absolutely NOT be in favor of establishing an official religion--justice isn't just for Christians, we DO have a responsibility to promote it but that's true for followers of any major faith, or just decent human beings. I understand the tenets of Christianity very well.

It's slick, sleazy double talk to claim "Jesus wants us to help the poor, but only through a non-governmental agency," Jesus didn't put such nonsense on the call.

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@Goohuman Society working together is the ONLY way poverty gets addressed. If every PENNY going to charity and churches went to services for the needy--no buildings, no salaries, no youth programs or postage stamps or electric bills or ANY overhead--it wouldn't come close to TOUCHING the need.Government is the only way to do it, and opposing this is based in greed, which goes directly counter to Christ's call.

more

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@Goohuman I cannot think of anything more UNChristian than to take those words from Luke and pervert them into meaning "Christ says the poor will be blessed, so it's OK for us to do nothing about poverty and let them all die so they can get their reward quicker." That's like these despicable people who refuse to oppose war, because the sooner we all kill each other, the sooner Christ will come back, a mindset that is as twisted as can be.

[Goohuman]

@PrisonerNumber9653 Then don't twist them and stop thinking so UNChristian-like. What fool would one have to be to even suggest such a thing?

I suggest you take your many years of Bible study and recall the basic tenants of Christianity. The poor may well be poor because they give what little they have to help others, just as God calls us ALL to do, including the fools. He does NOT call for you to give to someone else who will give FOR you. He calls you, rich or poor, to give. Don't be a fool.

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@Goohuman I haven't twisted anything. I know the basic tenets of Christianity very, very well. The poor are NOT poor in this nation from "giving what little they have away," they are poor because our evil system is rigged to help the rich get richer and the poor get further and futher behind, something NO Christian can support.

YOU are the fool, and a blasphemer, in saying God's grace for the poor is only to be the crumbs we don't want, rather than a system that helps those in need.

[Goohuman]

@PrisonerNumber9653 Pardon. It was obvious to me you are not a Christian and don't know much about the Bible at all in spite of your claims. I was only hoping to steer you to actually read more of the Bible with regards to why faith in God and social justice are at odds with one another. That is just one of many of Man's issues that people confuse with God. God bless you and help as you can, but any law forcing your beliefs on others is evil by its very nature. I hope you see that soon.

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@Goohuman And that remains a vile blasphemy. I am a Christian, and know the Bible very, very well, and to claim it's "Obvious I'm not a Christian" for not sharing your bigotry is an insult to the meaning of Christianity.

Faith in God and Social Justice are not REMOTELY at odds, one CANNOT follow Christ and refuse to support social justice.

It is NOT evil to protect the rights of others legally, that's not "forcing views." You think Jim Crow isn't evil, but civil rights are?

[zaracapeverde]

Speak out for those who cannot speak, for the rights of all the destitute. Speak out, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Proverbs 31:8-9

[MrConsitution]

In general Mr. Wallis statements sound good but it has no merit in biblical terms

It is not the church or a government to bring/force social justice. Individuals should have the choice to choose whether are not they want to help the poor.

Proverbs 17:23 A wicked man take a gift out of the bosom to pervert the ways of judgment.

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@MrConsitution Sick trash. Wallis' policies are based ENTIRELY in Christian love. We have a government now forcing INJUSTICE, we should as Christians build a society based upon justice. People should NOT be allowed to "choose" to ROB the poor, should not be allowed to "choose" to let children starve.

It is wicked, and a perversion, to pretend it's "Christian" to support capitalism and greed. It is not Christian. The government of the US is killing millions for Wall Street greed.

[djm9063]

JIM WALLIS IS SATAN ON EARTH.

[PrisonerNumber9653]

@djm9063 and yet another blasphemer is heard from.

[whoo689]

Tony Perkins is a jackass. Do these people REALLY think Bush Doctrine is more important than helping the poor, for instance? Or bitching about something so inevitable as abortion, as if MORE laws and regulations will end it? come on! You'll only 'end' abortion by getting the culture to stand against it and not do it anymore. But that'll take some time. No amount of regulation will stop it. It will just go back underground like pre-roe.

[ONErudebwoy]

@whoo689 that's a very true statement. same goes for many political topics.

[djm9063]

Jim Wallis is the DEVIL

[yanks3155]

by clearly missing the point, i was talking about Canbuhay...

[Bigstubby1]

Is this the 21st century? Did I just read the term "Negro-loving" written by 'ColeLite'? Does this kind of thinking persist to 2009? I felt like taking a shower after I read this.

[ColeLite]

Jim Willis is a Negro-loving, socialist who uses the pulpit for political proganda. I hope he passes on soon.

[tomestubbs]

Colelite. It's amazing that there are still backwards people like you in the world. The thing that freaks out people like you is that U cannot handle the truth. for example, despite the evidence that we R all related you guys want to deny the science & then corrupt our schools w/ intelligent design BS. Black people are genetically the same as we R face it. We originated from Africa the genetic code says.

[jsbarbee]

With regard to abortion, I think it should be as rare as possible, and every step should be taken to reduce the numbers. My question to pro-lifers: are you prepared to fund the agencies and families that would have to provide care for the 1-2 million plus newborns that a zero abortion rate would produce?

[Canbuhay]

Love the open-mindedness. Name-calling is always the resort of those who have no argument.

[Canbuhay]

Jim Wallis provides no solutions to stopping killing unborn babies.

What if it was over 1 million African-Americans or gays being killed every year in the US and rather than wanting to talk about how to stop the killing, he wanted us to focus on other issues? How middle of the road would that be?

[grazon]

abortion doesn't bother you.

[Canbuhay]

Yes it bothers me.

[grazon]

Yet you've supported the Iraq war for 8 years.

[yanks3155]

You're clearly missing the point. He cares about all of those things, but right-wing Christians talk about the enough for everyone. He's just trying to make the point that there are more issues to worry about and that we should care about just as much.

[jaif4]

Is Tony Perkins so totally delusional? More and more people are standing on our side he says, hey stupid, it is 2008, people are running away from your kind of thinking in droves, you just not paying attention, you live in your own little bubble, wake up and .

smell the coffee, there are many things that good in Christianity, what you promote is not Christianity, it is divisive and harmful to the society as a whole and we tired of it.

[Canbuhay]

Jesus said His word would divide families like a sword. Why? Because people don't like truth. BTW, your comments offend me and are harmful to unborn babies - so your words are just as divisive as Perkins'.

[seprgs]

Perkins is a pig

[simo3300]

why are Christians no different than the average American in the way they ignore the poor, borrow and spend, marry and divorce?

[boomac62]

like Jim Wallis?....Like MLK?....like Bono....

[grazon]

pwnd!

[geecie30]

Godamn pig Perkins.Your reign of religious crap is trite and stupid.

[Tmetrvlr]

Perkins probably goes to the Bijou in Chicago, ROFL!!!!!.

[mtshaul86]

pay less attention to what perkins has to say and please pay attention to jim wallis, the unsung voice for a movement hopefully on the rise

[jazzymojoe]

perkins is a nut job

[Canbuhay]

How tolerant of you.

[thamuzicaddict]

I could do with less Perkins and more Wallis.

The Christian Fundamentalist movement has been tried and found failing for the last 50 years.

[amsoho75gr]

In 2001, Tony Perkins addressed the Louisiana chapter of the white supremacist group Council of Conservative Citizens (CCC), the successor of the anti-integration white citizen's council. And, in 1996 Tony Perkins paid former Ku Klux Klan wizard David Duke $82,000 for his mailing list.

[grazon]

No shock there.

Perkins once said the only thing in the middle of the road is a dead skunk.

Thefore since Perkins isn't part of the far left he must be part of the far right.

[padude64]

Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[padude64]

Evangelicals are fakes and do not know what cause people to be gay! Answer me evangelicals! Bring it on! You cant answer me!

[RadCelt]

Tony Perkins is a FASCIST piece of shit.

[boomac62]

I disagree with Mr Perkins on most issues but I still believe we on the left should be more respectful than those on the right.

[padude64]

I will blame HIV on the evangelicals because they are preventing gays from coming out and they are actually creating more HIV cases by forcing them in the closet! So screw you evangelicals from the south and the midwest!

[padude64]

To hell with evangelicals!

[boomac62]

As a liberal evangelical i would have to protest! Peace

[Jimelia]

As an outside observer (from the UK), it saddens me to see so many Christians caught up in a blindly right-wing political agenda. That's why it's key that all reasoning on the social justice issues is Biblically-rooted, as at least then it has some hope of getting through...

[Jimelia]

To be fair, you don't really get to hear what Perkins thinks about poverty, social justice and the key issues that Wallis is engaging in, so it may be that on the issues they are not so different in their views. Can't tell from the video tho. The skunks comment was pointless and makes no sense.

[BeatBuddy]

Tony Perkins is a conservative Christian? That's a misnomer. He is no Christian, and neither is he a true conservative. He's an authoritarian reactionary.

[webwalker13]

Make Congress Hear You! America, do not give your vote away. Make Presidential Candidates earn your vote. How? 1) Republicans/Democrats need competition for our votes; dissolve the 2 party control & consider third party candidates. 2) Notify, Presidential Candidates their promises & words will not win votes. Make them win your vote, by standing "Today," before Nancy Pelosi, Congress & the Senate to demand the will of the people be heard. Impeach Bush now. Start removing troops thereafter.

[laughingBun]

finally a liberal i can actually agree with, though he really isnt all that liberal.

[dentalomental]

Tony Perkins.. psych'oooooo..

[djwilkins]

Christians need to stop talking in the superficial terms of left and right and instead tackle each issue biblically one at a time. Above we see Jim Wallis calling for this, and Tony Perkins failing to think outside the bi-polar rehetoric. We can all do better and be unified with great common ground in doing so.

[tim888222]

Great point.

[Qwazniuk]

so he calls it the truth, huh? the truth on his side. i wonder if "the truth" materializes in the form of a lion that prowls around the earth in search for souls to devour. 1 peter 5:8

[Qwazniuk]

the fact of the matter is the scriptures tell us through the goodness of yeshua (the historical jesus) that we will be judged based on how we treat the poor. perkins is conserned about content and not principles. oppose gay marriage and leave eminent domaine alone.

[Qwazniuk]

jim wallis hit the nail right on the head. tony perkins had to resort to the same old strategy of a liar, verbal attacks, "liberal evangelicals can't agree on anything." that's a bold statement from an anti-choice homophobe.

[Qwazniuk]

how can you come to such a conclusion without even observing the group? you hear the title and presuppose the right evengelicals are skunks compared to the evangelical right, which are vulturous.

[missapple22002]

yeah wanting to end world poverty makes someone a 'skunt'. If the Family Research Council think stopping a few fags get married is more important than a genocide in Sudan, they are sicker than i ever thought possible.

[wntoply6]

you were almost "right on" missapple, but you lost all credibility when you used "the f word". it's right up there with "the c word" referring to women...don't ya think?