Who says you can't be Baptist AND a Christian? I know a lot of Baptist Christians. I'm sure the caller's preacher wants her to be Christian just like Norm does.
You quoted Ephesians saying it says to "Sing make melody in your heart" HUH?
Ephesians 5:19 Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,
It says sing AND make music from your heart. Very simple don't complicate it.
You sing with you mouth and make music with instruments. When you make it with your mouth or with an instrument it all comes from the heart.
You spent a lot of time discussing a name for the church. Where did God authorize you to make a name for it? I don't see God telling anyone to name His church.
You are using a descriptive phrase and turning it into a name. How about "church of God" or "Family of God" or simply "location" church. Why does it have to be "Church of Christ" as you stated?
Will one go to Hell if they fail to have THAT name?
that being said, what you put on your sign or "call yourselves" ,means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You act like Pharisees. Your exegesis of Ephesians 5:19 is terrible. Verses 15-21 is one statement from Paul. ...BY WHO'S Authority are YOU CLAIMING that YOU are in fact the same as th First century church? You have NO AUTHORITY to say others that they arent believers just because of what the sign says on their church building.
In James 5:13..It talks of Elders praying over the sick, anointing their head with oil. Does the Church of Christ anoint people's heads with oil? ..also Acts 20:28,
1 Cor 1:2;10:32;11:16;and 15:9.That is ONCE in Acts, and FOUR TIMES in 1 Corinthians, the church is referred to as the church of God. Now using your "logic" you would have to say that when you see a "church of God" you would have to admit that they are part of the "true church",even though they are charismatic,use instruments,etc.
Where in the bible does it say we can use TV? under what authority? This guy is so fat he couldn't fit through the gates of heaven. St Peter would tell him he needs to lose some weight first
Defending The Gospel.....18Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, 19holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. 20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
He didn't need to say it. If you go to Taco Bell, and ask for a burrito and drink, do you HAVE to tell them not to give you tacos (or anything else)? No. What is required precludes anything else. You use this in your every day life. Why is it so hard to use the same common sense with God?
@ rejoice 232, Greek grammar in Ephesians 5:19 DEMANDS the instrument be named. The ONLY instrument therein named is the human heart.
To add instruments is like putting burgers and cokes on the altar for communion; it's the same disregard for what God said. Adding instruments to worship for the "supposed" reason that they are not forbidden is ludicrous. What happened to Nadab and Abihu when they offered fire from a different source than that commanded? God didn't say not to do so, did He?
"Harps" in Heaven are not literal harps. Revelation is all a book of figurative language; and says so. Moth and rust can corrupt nothing in Heaven. Rust will corrupt a harp.
This is simply a noise so beautiful mortal minds can't grasp it. So, an anthropomorphism is used. In other words, things in Heaven which we cannot REALLY know are put into the closest terms possible.
If authority for instruments lies in the OT, then, according to you, Christ failed. He came to fulfill the Law. You say it can't pass until it is fulfilled. Christ nailed the OT to the cross. To claim the OT (for all "whole Bible" proponents, means you must also take animal sacrifice over Christ. If you live by Moses, and fail in the sacrifices, you are guilty of all. You don't really believe you need animals. Why try to set a double standard?
And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Man with a TV crew runs to the foot of Mount Sion waving his bible in hand "Hey, hey you there...Under what authority do you harpers harp with those harps?" LOL
Narrator: And they sang a new song before the throne that no man could know.
Really? Is he hoping to win an argument? Is that what he's rejoicing in, being RIGHT? Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 are never used in the context of a worship service.
Psalm 149 and 150, moron. Why not read the WHOLE BIBLE. Not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all be fulfilled. You are a legalist. Have fun pretending to praise the Lord. I'm glad you aren't trying to run a church. I'd feel bad for your sheep.
LIES LIES LIES. confess with your mouth and believe in your heart the he died and rose from the dead than ye shall be saved. WO UNTO THE MAN WHO SCATTERS MY SHEEP I WILL COME ON YOUR SHOW BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID IT DOESNT TELL YOU TO PLAY INSTRUMENTS IT ALSO DOESN'T TELL YOU NOT TO PLAY SO DONT ADD OR TAKE AWAY FROM HIS WORD. BUT IT DOES SAY EATING TO MUCH IS A SIN SO ARE YOU FOLLLOWING EVERYTHING IN THAT BIBLE OF YOURS OR ARE YOU PICKING AND CHOSING
@greenbeans26 How can "YOU" break a law in the OT? Unless you r a Jew waaaay..back then. "YOU/WE can only break laws that R 4 us ie NT if you have obeyed that form of doctrine Rom 6:16-18. U have 2 rightly div Word. The Bible does not say not 2 use drugs. The point is we do what it says not what it does not. The bible NT by specf comnd says sing that excludes all others. Unless u can find a spec com that says dif it is exclus not inclusive.
Many times in the New Testament it says to praise the Lord with psalms and hymns. James 5:13, Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19 The Greek for psalms is psallo number 5567 in strong's Greek/Hebrew. Which means to play on a stringed instrument ( celebrate the devine worship with music and accompanying odes) Look also at Greek psalmos number. 5568 accompanied with the harp or other instrument. Also, in Revelations 5:8, 15:2 it talks about the harps of God.
@rejoice232 that stringed instrm is the heart.Eph 5:19 says SPEAKING, Col 3:16 says SINGING, U cant speak/sing w/mech u strum/play them. The bible says when we sing we R2 teach/admon each othr U cant w/mech inst.Harps of Rev not literal, 5:8 says they R prayrs, 14:1-3 says Voice of harpers V3 says they sung,15:1-3 harps of God, V3 says they sing. Rev descrbs hvnly things w/earthly descriptn so we humans/earthlngs can undrstnd, havng nevr gone to heavn. No material things n hvn 1Cor 15:49-51
Oops, Norm I found more about YOU in the Bible - they talk about you all over the place.
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
READ...THE...WHOLE...CHAPTER. That why you can see this ONE verse in context. Then you will be able to understand what that group of 36 words words really means. You see...there are several hundred words in this chapter that pertain to the subject in verse 13.
An admonition to "read a verse, chapter, or book in context" from someone in the C of C denomination is rather laughable. With all due respect, I would suggest that you should considering doing the same....when and if you do, you will flee from the likes of PrecherNorm and Johnny Robertson.
dickiebow2003....are you a minister & what church do you attend...why did you remove your most recent post...are you going to meet preacher norm in a public discussion of the scriptures???
Norm, where do you find authority in the Bible for your PRIDE, ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE, AND SMART-MOUTH ATTITUDE.
Oops, I found YOU in the Bible!
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" Matt 23:15
"but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!" Matt 18:6-8
"Woe to you who are well-fed, but are still hungry." Luke 6:25
These Camelites are so retarded. They have no clue how to debate a scripture, they'd rather personalize their debates... Take pot shots as opposed to just sticking to scripture.
No they don't know how to debate - if you throw out scripture that is not apart of their 8-10 GO-TO verses you never hear from them again - they run and hide under the bed like Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons when confronted with scripture that is foreign to them; and that which clearly invalidates their limited theology. I'd like just 1 to respond to any of what I presented below. It's no wonder the Baptists have quit debating them - might as well have a good conversation with a hammer instead.
On top of that they refuse to debate to proper debating rules. they Interject when they feel to... My Pastor debated Johnny Robertson there in NC and everyone feel that through the Love of God he won but Johnny lied about the topics of debate. Some man of Word.
Johnny Robertson and PreacherNorm are running neck and neck in the 154th Annual Alexander Campbell Memorial False-Teaching Mule Race; and regardless of which one eventually takes the crown THEY ARE BOTH LOSERS, unless they repent of their comfortably ARROGANT, PRIDEFUL, SMART-MOUTHED, SMART-ATTITUDE, SECTARIAN, SUPREMELY IGNORANT FALSE TEACHING!!
Both have more interest in CHURCH OF CHRIST DOGMA than TRUTH; but is it any wonder, for the Holy Spirit resides in neither of their poor souls!!
It sure is'nt your authotity.The Church of Christ is a cult! Read the definition for the very verse you say gives you your name. The churches of christ salute you.The greek says that the churches is the people of christ.I'm glad I got saved out of it.
In Matt. 22:14 it says many are called but few are chosen.
This parable does not mean that God calls a lot of people, picks over them, and keeps only a few. If that were true, the middle of the parable would have no meaning. It means that God calls everyone and gives them the power to respond—but to be chosen, we must respond to the call, using the power God gave us for that purpose.
WE Respond, and THEN We're Chosen? Is that the order ?? Sounds backwards to me.
Many are called refers to the "general call" of the Gospel; the "few" refers to those who respond; the elect of God chosen before the foundation of the world - Eph.1:4.
And you are right, HE does gives us the ability to respond, as we are DEAD in trespasses and sin - Eph. 2:1 & 5 - He make us ALIVE in Eph. 2:5. Otherwise we cannot respond to the Gospel when we are dead.
How do the verses below speak to your statement that "we ultimately make that decision"
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing." John 6:63. ***If it's YOUR decision then the flesh would profit everything! Right? "For this reason I have said to you, that NO ONE can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father." John6:65 ***Still your decision?
God does not choose who goes to hell - everyone is deserving of hell. God chooses who will receive mercy!
Anyone can be a calvinist in a church whether it be coc, baptist, non-denominational etc. I don't believe that only certain people are chosen and that our lives are pre-destines. I believe that God has chosen man kind but only few will decide to make God head over their lives. God does have a plan for all of us but we have to chose whether we decide to follow God's plan or not. That's the problem I have with predestination
"just as He CHOSE us in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him, In love He PREDESTINED us....according to the kind intention of HIS will. Eph 1:4-5
"....having been PREDESTINED according to HIS purpose who works all things after the counsel of HIS will." Eph 1:11
"and these whom He PREDESTINED, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified. Rom 8:30
yes much bigger wars to fight. what about people who have never heard of christ? What about people in other countries who are dying because of a corrupt government? And the only thing that is being said here is, instruments are evil. We as christians should be focusing on serving others, not wasting our time with petty arguments
No you're taking what the bible completely out of context. Paul was talking to a particular church . Back then women were uneducated and were causing chaos during the worship. They were yelling across the room to their husbands and being obnoxious. That had to do with a specific culture at a specific church. If you look at Romans chapter 16 you will see phoebe a sister in the church who was the first deaconess. you will see priscilla who preached at her church, and mary who prophesied.
It also says: 4For he CHOSE us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he PREDESTINED us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
So do you know the meaning or NOT?DON'T QUOTE SCRIPTURES TO shellbell289 & OTHERS UNTIL YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO ADDRESS IT'S MEANING - QUIT PICKING AND CHOSING WHAT YOU LIVE BY!
THIS ASSUMES, OF COURSE, THAT YOU DON'T IGNORE SCRIPTURE THAT YOU EITHER YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, OR THAT BY RECIEVING IT YOU WOULD DETERMINE THAT YOUR THEOLOGY IS FLAWED AND IN SERIOUS ERROR.
THIS ASSUMES, OF COURSE, THAT YOU DON'T IGNORE SCRIPTURE THAT EITHER YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, OR THAT BY RECIEVING IT YOU WOULD DETERMINE THAT YOUR THEOLOGY IS FLAWED AND IN SERIOUS ERROR.
You haven't even addressed the role of priscilla and agrippa. As well as the others I listed. And you have failed to address my issue with the culture of that specific church.
As I said before; These women were not given the roles of Deacons nor any of the such. They were helpers of many and of Christ.
As far as cultural variations go, I shall say again; There are no verses that give liberty to re-interpret scriptural requirements due to cultural habitation.
With love I say: Brother what are you doing. You are dividing a nation against itself. Yes the bible says sing and David sang while he played his harp. Where in the Bible does it say to wear a suit and tie? Take a bathroom break? Are we to sit in pews and what color? Did you use a computer for this? Are there computers in your church? Satan is out there dividing the Church (body of believers) with homosexuality, abortion, and legality and you are worried about such things as instruments?
you cannot generalize every baptist church to be like that. In the same way within the churches of christ, there's a massive amount of ignorance and division within the church of christ
Hey shellbell289 - he can do anything he wants because he is a member of the C of C - they have "cornered the market" on ALL TRUTH while the rest of the world ignores TRUTH just for the fun of it I guess. So JDWhitehead can generalize ALL HE WANTS because HE"S SMARTER than you and I - and believe it or not he is able to achieve all of this WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT - it's all JDWhitehead. No No No, massive ignorance in the C of C denomination?? I DON'T SEE ANY ON DISPLAY !
God has given me a gift and I intend to use it for his glory, and it was not to teach pre-schoolers. I've been told Im of the weaker sex, and great purpose in life is to have children. Well, I think I was meant for something more than just that. And I know God thinks so too. I'll be praying for you sir, open your heart to God, don't close it. Open your ears and stop having selective hearing.
My eyes are quite open to God, but I have very selective hearing relative to apologist for the traditional church of Christ in which I grew up - JDWhitehead is a good example of a closed-minded apologist . A open-minded church of Christ like you have described at Richland Hills is one in which I am not familiar, but would no doubt find quite refreshing!
Hey Shelly, I encourage you to visit the worship services of the Churches of Christ. There's no division within the Church of Christ.
The reason their's so much division within the Baptist church is because the Baptist Pastors refuse to teach their theology (in depth) in fear of exposure to their error. Baptist preachers usually tell their members that they have liberty to interpret the scriptures differently than they do.
Any church that has division is not the Lord's Church.
What a crock - THERE ARE NO DIVISIONS IN THE CofC DENOMINATION BECAUSE OF THE LIFE-LONG ENDOCTINATION OF ERROR.
ALSO, NEVER has a Baptist Minister espoused to a person that they "have liberty to interpret scripture differently - A LIE FROM JDW and RIGHT OUT OF THE PIT OF HELL.
And this ALSO from someone who refuses to address Eph 1 because it's NEW to him, and because he has no way of answering - his only course then is to IGNORE IT - SOME DEPTH OF THEOLOGY IF YOU HAVE TO IGNORE IT !!
Sir, I have read the very interesting banter between you and dickiebow. It appears that he has challenged you on the first chapter of Ephesians regarding the use of the words chosen and predestined. I too would like to here your response as well. Thank you.
I grew up in the church of christ. do not tell me there's no division. Have you ever heard of Richland Hills Church of Christ? The biggest church of christ in america? It started an instrumental service the spring of 2007, and I was apart of the praise and worship team there. I know when there's division in the churches of christ. I've lived in it, and experienced it. When people tell me I'm going to hell for the way I worship my Lord Jesus Christ, I've got a huge problem. It was within the Coc
After people telling me that not only am I going to hell because of worshiping my Father in heaven with joy and thanksgiving, they've told me I'm going to hell for being a part of Richland Hills church and being good friends with Rick Atchley. Also, I'm a speaker, and i speak at functions with men and women talking about the bible and praying aloud. I've been told I need to shut up, and that I'm taking authority over the man which is also absurd.
Whoa were do you come off calling Baptists Calvinists? Calvinists believe that your destiny has already been planned out for you and there's no way you could ever change it. Once you were born, God either chose you to go to heaven, or chose you to go to hell...whatever happened to free will? Baptists do not take on that doctrine...I don't know what Baptist church you've been to...
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit ....to the praise of his glory."
If you want an intelligent conversation on the Calvinism, better described as Reformed Theology, JonathonDWhitehead is the wrong place to to turn - he knows nothing except CofC dogma. Also, just a correction if you will allow me - Calvin nor Luther believed in Double-Predestination i.e., God chooses who is SAVED as well as who is LOST - this is not what the Bible teaches. ALL are LOST - God choses ONLY who he will have mercy on. Check out the first 2 chapters of Ephesians - ALL GRACE & GLORY
"Now that's what sad, you attempting to rationalize and understand the mind of God. "
The scripture says "therefor do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is." Ephesians 5:17
It cracks me up to hear you Calvinist say things like this. Your only hope to reconcile your renegade doctrines with the HOly Scriptures is to scream "Antinomy!" and run the other way.
Haha ( I want you to know that your responses really make me laugh, keep them coming.)
in Christ ALONE my hope is found he is my light my strength my song. I love worship. In spirit and in truth. Whenever I worship I feel like I'm dancing with my father in heaven. Ha yes I said it! DANCING!
My hope and yours are found in nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness - some sing it, but don't believe it - Jonathon sings it, but sadly does not believe it - he a robber of God's glory unfortunately. Great comments - I'm dancin' with ya!
I'd rather be a Christian saved by Grace ALONE, thru Faith ALONE, in Christ ALONE, attending a Baptist Church or a PCA Presbyterian Church to worship my Lord and Savior than to be anywhere near a legalistic, self-righteous, Cult full of restored Pharisees.
It's staggering to realize that the things you want to believe in can't be found in the Bible; Grace ALONE, Faith ALONE, Christ ALONE, Baptist Church, PCA Presbyterian Church.
There's a lot of People who want to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster than be a Christian too.
Eph. 8 For it is by GRACE you have been saved, through FAITH—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
I GUESS YOU THINK BECAUSE PAUL DID NOT ADD THE WORDS "ONLY" AFTER GRACE & FAITH, you can then add whatever you want to add - there you go again making your additions to suit your flawed theology.
Here's an great idea - try to live by your "you cannot add to the Bible" rule - then you won't be a hypocrite when you accuse others!
How hypocritical can you get? Calvinism's the biggest cult in America. Calvinism teaches that no one can be saved unless an extra-biblical divine intervention takes place.
Calvinism teaches that you can't understand the scriptures unless the Holy Spirit, extra-biblically, tells you what it means.
Now that's a cult.
How sad it is that you'd rather be a Calvinist than a Christian.
I have no interest in being identified with Calvin or Luther, but rather the TRUTH of Holy Scripture, and REFORMED theology is what the Bible teaches from page 1 to the last page of Revelation - look at the WHOLE instead of misunderstanding and misinterpreting Act 2:38 and then bluilding your errant theology out from there. Now that's what sad, you attempting to rationalize and understand the mind of God.
........you thought I was altogether like you. Psalm 50:21
Nice try again - The Bible never said anything about "Restoration Movement" either - so you keep on "picking and choosing" to suit your overwhelming legalism and "we call things by Bible names" - NO YOU DON'T - gemme a break - your inconsistencies are HIGH-LARIOUS ! ! !
Here's a challenge - I'll put Drs. Albert Mohler, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Sinclair Ferguson, Steven Lawson, and Ligon Duncan up against NORM along with the finest offered by David Lipscomb and Freed-Hardeman, and we'll see who reigns on the interpretation of Eph. 1:11
11 "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will....."
Or just maybe you would like to set us reformers straight ??
I did not expect you would have any idea who those fine Bible scholars are, as they do not limit their theology to the Cut & Paste variety. And yes, the Holy Spirit guides me thru scripture; as it says in the Word: "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Thank you for your concern, but on the topic of "Cults" I have no need to repent, as I live in the protestant world of believers saved by Grace. I DO NOT belong to can exclusive, dogmatic, sect that on so many points misinterprets or ignores scripture; and when clearly faced with Biblical Truth resorts to more scripture that they misinterpret with their limited "Human Logic and Understanding.
Tell me again, how you are capable of discerning truth from scripture without the help of the HS.
What reference in John 6 and I will respond - my John 6 verse was: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;... John 6:44. It's QUITE CLEAR - its speaks to man's "Spiritual Deadness" and his "Absolute INABILITY" to come to Christ without GOD initaiting it. You gave some CofC convoluted rejection of truth by equating "God" with the "Bible' as the drawing agent - IT DID NOT SAY "BIBLE DRAWS" It Says "GOD DRAWS"!
Now take on "chosen" and "Predestination" in Eph 1:5
Here, I'll make it easy for you to locate the verse in Ephesians - that's in the New Testament - 9th book.
4....just as HE CHOSE us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him, In love 5 HE PREDESTINED us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind INTENTION of HIS WILL, 6 to the praise of the GLORY of HIS GRACE....Eph. 1:4-6
Give it you best shot JDW, but don't rely on the Holy Spirit or Norm for any help!!
10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
Your Bible lesson for today - Topic: The Holy Spirit John 16:12-14 (NIV) 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
I quess skeerd means to be afraid. Why would anyone be afraid of the words of God? Any way if predestination is problem for you I would suggest you study the love of God for mankind. The predestination then becomes clear that he is speaking to those who obey his Gospel. God grace has appeared to all. Titus speaks of this but his word says not all will come to a knowledge of him. Those he predestined will be those who come to the knowledge of God and obeying that word. 2 Thess 1:8
I certainly am not scared of the sacred word of God, but it appears that JDWhitehead is - he likes to comment on the"sacred' verses that support his "cut & paste" errant theology, but seems to have an issue with addressing Eph 2:4-5 because it conflicts with his Armimian "works/rightous" mentality. Like most people with the CofC denomination he runs from verses that compomise his endoctination. He has no understanding of Grace in Eph2 and is a "robber of God's Glory". So where do you stand?
"STILL WAITING - Ephesians 1 - Are your Skeeerd of Eph 1:4-6?"
Convenient how you leave out verse three.....Paul is talking to Christians, those who are IN CHRIST....those who have obeyed the Gospel, having been baptized into Christ, are the predestined....You are the true "cut an paste" bandit it seems, willingly cutting out the parts that don't suit your perversions of God's word....you should repent, soon
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world
So he's speaking to Christian - am I in diagreement with that? So are you saying God LOOKED INTO THE FUTURE - DETERMINED WHO WOULD RESPOND IN FAITH - AND THEN PREDESTINE THEM BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD - What exactly is your point?
Actually, the largest Cults in America are by membership:
1. The Roman Catholic Church
2. The Church of Latter Day Saints
3. The Church of Christ - Campbellites
4. Jehovah's Witness
5. Disciples of Christ
That's quite impressive for Alexander Campbell - he or his followers are responsible for starting #2, #3, and # 5. I expect he's paying a big price for that as we speak!
So long as I am drawing near to him he shall save me and make intercession for me.
Too bad your false doctrines cause you to WITHdraw from him.
Indeed God shall have the final word, in flaming fire taking vengence on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
So those who "OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." (your words) are the poor folk who are not apart of the C of C sect? Is that not what you are saying?
As for your "abiding in Him" - you, nor anyone else has the ability to "abide in Him" if did not first "keep you."
Please, Please, Please - quit taking credit for things that only God can do - QUIT robbing God of His Glory!!
"Obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" These are not my words but Gods words. Read your Bible. 2 Thess 1:8
We are told to keep ourselves in the love of God. Jude 21 And we do this by keeping his commandments. "Whosoever keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected; by this we know we that we are in him." 1 John 2:5
I have not taken credit for the things that only God can do.
All sin comes through temptation. So if you ever succumbed to the temptation continually like a pattern then, by your own admission, would be evidence that you are not saved. Even though you (somehow) believe that you're saved right now.
That's right - I'm saved right now! I am a sinner, but the pattern and desire of my life is obedience . Thank you God, How Great Thou Art - thanks for your Amazing Grace.
HELLO you.tube veiwers - Stop the Presses - Call Nightline, Call Walter Cronkite, Call the Guinness Book of World Record - JonathanDWhitehead is attempting to live his life and earn salvation BY NEVER SINNING!!
Good-bye Mr. Whitehead - I will be praying for your eternal soul!
Sorry Jonathon - you won't be able to take credit for salvation after all for, "it's by HIS DOING you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption.1 Cor 1:30
You Like Bible Answers?
Paul speaks to MY ASSURANCE again: "For I am confident of this very thing, that HE WHO BEGAN a good work in you WILL PERFECT IT until the day of Christ Jesus." Phil. 1:6
Keep doing whatever you do to merit favor - I'll rest in my assurance!
Your words - "so long as I abide in him" - so there's still a chance you'll "fall away" huh?
I remember a song that the Church of Christ liked to sing - one verse went - "....I am confident that HE IS ABLE TO KEEP THAT which I've commited....... until that day..." You still have it REVERSED buddy - it's still all about what YOU DO TO KEEP THAT!!!! Your Effort..... Your Abiding....... If I were you, I'd quit singing that song since you dont' believe it!!
Norm, answer some questions for me. 1. Can you spell HUMILITY? 2. Are the "7 deadly sins" in the bible? I know one is gluttony - do you ever preach on that? 3. Where in the Bible does it say, "man should not live by bread alone, but biscuits and gravy in the AM, a bucket of KFC at noon, and a pound of Pizza Hut pasta at dinner. Where does the Bible authorize that?
This was my best attempt to imitate your insensitivity, prideful attitude, and self-righteousness - a pretty good job huh?
Hey Norm, where is your authority for church pews?
Correct interpretation of Eph. 5:19: make melody - To The Lord WITH ALL YOU HEART, not make "melody in your heart! The prior verse speaks to being filled with the spirit - it was not a preface to some "legalistic instruction on no musical instriments" NORM, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE HEBREW LANGUAGE, OBVIOUSLY NOT.
Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
I prefer Martin Luther to Calvin - Luther understood what you clearly do not.
"know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."
I prefer Martin Luther to Calvin - Luther understood what you clearly do not.
"know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."
We arent Campbellites, the church of Christ was around long before he was born....besides his teachings do not fully correspond to the Bible, some...but not all......GRAHAM CRACKERS????....lack of respect for authority, do not add to the Bible, we are commanded to eat the bread & drink of the fruit of the vine.....is milk a fruit???...umm no
why dont we go to book og JOHN .99% says BELIEVED IN CHRIST AND THOU SHALT BE SAVE...ALWAYS BELIEVING UNTO SOME1 W/C IS JESUS NOT BELIEVED SOMETHING. AND BY THE WAY JUST A QUESTION WHAT (PREACHER NORM PASTOR IN?) IT SAYS HIS A PREACHER...SO WHERE IS HE GOING TO BRING HIS CONVERTS?
WOW, It has been 11-Months since I posted my 1st comment from here!
Now, I can honestly say that I am no longer a member of the Church of Christ nor do I belong to any religion or any church. I've been a Church of Christ member for 3years and thought that by believing in the sound doctrine, the solid teaching of the Holy-bible was the answer to help me find my answer...
The answer that I was looking for is the answer to all problems and so therefore I was searching for GOD.
I realized that the Church of Christ was not the answer to help me find God, although It did help me steer away from it so that I can find my answer which IS GOD/HEAVEN/EXISTENCE.
A homeless on the street who has never read the bible or baptized or attended church can Have God and Heaven, while still alive or not.
Although to the bible, what I have just said is considered Blasphemy.
I never agreed that Luther and Calvin are modern day Gnostics any more than you agreed that P.Norm is a false teacher who adds to Saving Grace, as opposed to responding to Saving Grace - which he most certainly is.
You must be of the Church of Christ sect, as I see you have a propensity to put words in other peoples mouths. So why don't you attempt to answer my question - tell me what Jesus meant when he said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.....
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
The gospel is God's power unto salvation. The Gospel is the avenue in which God draws men.
Let's try ONE MORE time - I knew you'd get it wrong and offer some left-field CofC answer. Now address each part: "No one can come to me unless the Father ..... draws him.
God is not defined as "the Gospel" - he is the Holy Person and Sovereign Creator and King of the Universe - what does this verse say about man's ability or inability to come to Christ until (Unless) the the person of the Father initiates the process? We love Him - why? - because he first loved us.
That was no left field answer. That was a Bible answer for a Bible question.
The means by which God calls men is through the Gospel because it is the power of God unto salvation.
If only your polluted mind would read a little further into this passage you would find that God draws men by teaching them through the Gospel. "It is written... They shall all be taught by God... anyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."
Man is unable to come to the Father without a preacher.
Let's try ONE MORE time - God draws men - "No one can come to me unless the Father ..... draws him.
God is not defined as "the Gospel" - he is the Holy Person and Sovereign Creator and King of the Universe - what does this verse say about man's ability or inability to come to Christ until (Unless) the the person of the Father initiates the process? We love Him - why? - because he first loved us.
Yes, I have assurance - I was sealed - Eph 1: 13. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.......
Which one of these sins can you commit and still go to heaven? Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, factions, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings?
That is a catalog list of major sins that characterize the unsaved. The pattern of life for the believer is obedience - that does not mean that they do not sin, and it does not mean they lose their salvation when they do sin. True believers mourn their sin, seek continued forgiveness, and seek to gain victory over it. New life in Christ breaks sin's total domination and is replaced by a new pattern of obedience. Again, any pattern of unrepentant sin is evidence that a person is not saved.
The members of the Lord's Church only acknowledge Bible answer's. The answer is; As I have told you in times pas that they who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Because...
"He that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done AND THERE IS NO RESPECT OF PERSONS." Col 3:25
You've also proved my point on the lack of security within your religion by saying "any pattern of unrepentant sin is evidence that a person is not saved." (Continued.)
Remember, the Old Testament is what gives the New Testament it's authority. Don't disregard the worship with song and dance and harps and all kinds of other praises given to God.
"when you make melody with your heart, it comes out of your mouth"
I have to disagree Preacher Norm. When you make melody in your heart, you are worshiping God in spirit and in truth. Meaning, that the words that you are using to praise God are the words inside your heart. Not just words, but actions as well reflects your heart. You can lift your hand to God in a song and that's making melody with your heart. Clapping and rejoicing in worship is melody in your heart. Read the Psalms
1) Psalms is part of God's inspired word and is just as important to the scriptures as any book apart of the New Testament. Why reject Psalms when there is so much praise toward the father?
2) When did God say not to use music? Do not use...?
first read the whole chapter to understand what it was that Paul was speaking of, don't just pull out scriptures that have nothing to do with this context. Secondly, I don't know what version of the bible you are using but I translated the verse in greek and the correct phrase would be For everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction....one more time....instruction
first read the whole chapter to understand what it was that Paul was speaking of, don't just pull out scriptures that have nothing to do with this context. Secondly, I don't know what version of the bible you are using but
Notice how the man will not aknowledge that he is a member of the abusive heavy shepherding 'Church of Christ'. Just like all cults, he hides behind a name Why not "The church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints"? They use Jesus name same as this guy but his conclusion is as wrong as they are. No one whether baptist, church of Christ or Methodist, belongs to Christ if they have not his spirit (Romans 8:9).
Hey Norm: Don't you know that in Eph 5:19 and Col 3:16, the admonition to sing with grace in your hearts to the Lord is NOT addressed to THE CHURCH, it is addressed to CHRISTIANS!
If it is a sin to have music in the church, how come its not a sin to lusten to christian music in your home or in your car? When are you going to show me a worship service in the Bible anyway? Just wondering.
hate to say it but that lady is dense.
1weirdgurl 3 weeks ago
If they're Christians then they are not Baptist.
Baptist have a creed book of man.
Christians have the Bible of God!
guestt1992 3 months ago
Who says you can't be Baptist AND a Christian? I know a lot of Baptist Christians. I'm sure the caller's preacher wants her to be Christian just like Norm does.
thepride724 5 months ago
You quoted Ephesians saying it says to "Sing make melody in your heart" HUH?
Ephesians 5:19 Instead, be filled with the Spirit, 19 speaking to one another with psalms, hymns, and songs from the Spirit. Sing and make music from your heart to the Lord,
It says sing AND make music from your heart. Very simple don't complicate it.
You sing with you mouth and make music with instruments. When you make it with your mouth or with an instrument it all comes from the heart.
mwsourcetube 6 months ago
You spent a lot of time discussing a name for the church. Where did God authorize you to make a name for it? I don't see God telling anyone to name His church.
You are using a descriptive phrase and turning it into a name. How about "church of God" or "Family of God" or simply "location" church. Why does it have to be "Church of Christ" as you stated?
Will one go to Hell if they fail to have THAT name?
kaleb798 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
CHECK OUT THOSE LINKS, THEY WILL CLEAR ALL YOUR CONFUSION ABOUT MAY 21 JUDGEMENT DAY, IT WILL EXPLAIN WHY IT CAN'T BE TRUE
amazingfacts org
bibleprophecytruth com
666truth org
All Those poor people that belive May 21st End of the world, those sites may benifit you on May 22nd
MrAndrVa 9 months ago
that being said, what you put on your sign or "call yourselves" ,means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. You act like Pharisees. Your exegesis of Ephesians 5:19 is terrible. Verses 15-21 is one statement from Paul. ...BY WHO'S Authority are YOU CLAIMING that YOU are in fact the same as th First century church? You have NO AUTHORITY to say others that they arent believers just because of what the sign says on their church building.
spellbiff 1 year ago
In James 5:13..It talks of Elders praying over the sick, anointing their head with oil. Does the Church of Christ anoint people's heads with oil? ..also Acts 20:28,
1 Cor 1:2;10:32;11:16;and 15:9.That is ONCE in Acts, and FOUR TIMES in 1 Corinthians, the church is referred to as the church of God. Now using your "logic" you would have to say that when you see a "church of God" you would have to admit that they are part of the "true church",even though they are charismatic,use instruments,etc.
spellbiff 1 year ago
Where in the bible does it say we can use TV? under what authority? This guy is so fat he couldn't fit through the gates of heaven. St Peter would tell him he needs to lose some weight first
rbton304 1 year ago
@rbton304- What does his weigh have to do with what he is preaching? He is preaching the true word of God.
hiphopisDEAd2005 1 year ago 5
This has been flagged as spam show
Pot calling the kettle black
hyoidbone54 1 year ago
Defending The Gospel.....18Timothy, my son, I give you this instruction in keeping with the prophecies once made about you, so that by following them you may fight the good fight, 19holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. 20Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
caneishaprince 1 year ago
He didn't need to say it. If you go to Taco Bell, and ask for a burrito and drink, do you HAVE to tell them not to give you tacos (or anything else)? No. What is required precludes anything else. You use this in your every day life. Why is it so hard to use the same common sense with God?
howa3984 1 year ago
@ rejoice 232, Greek grammar in Ephesians 5:19 DEMANDS the instrument be named. The ONLY instrument therein named is the human heart.
To add instruments is like putting burgers and cokes on the altar for communion; it's the same disregard for what God said. Adding instruments to worship for the "supposed" reason that they are not forbidden is ludicrous. What happened to Nadab and Abihu when they offered fire from a different source than that commanded? God didn't say not to do so, did He?
howa3984 1 year ago
He's not rejoicing in being right. He's rejoicing in trying to make someone else WANT to be right?
howa3984 1 year ago
"Harps" in Heaven are not literal harps. Revelation is all a book of figurative language; and says so. Moth and rust can corrupt nothing in Heaven. Rust will corrupt a harp.
This is simply a noise so beautiful mortal minds can't grasp it. So, an anthropomorphism is used. In other words, things in Heaven which we cannot REALLY know are put into the closest terms possible.
howa3984 1 year ago
If authority for instruments lies in the OT, then, according to you, Christ failed. He came to fulfill the Law. You say it can't pass until it is fulfilled. Christ nailed the OT to the cross. To claim the OT (for all "whole Bible" proponents, means you must also take animal sacrifice over Christ. If you live by Moses, and fail in the sacrifices, you are guilty of all. You don't really believe you need animals. Why try to set a double standard?
howa3984 1 year ago
Revelation 14:2
And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
Man with a TV crew runs to the foot of Mount Sion waving his bible in hand "Hey, hey you there...Under what authority do you harpers harp with those harps?" LOL
Narrator: And they sang a new song before the throne that no man could know.
Tikal007 1 year ago
Really? Is he hoping to win an argument? Is that what he's rejoicing in, being RIGHT? Eph. 5:19 and Col. 3:16 are never used in the context of a worship service.
aarondean11 1 year ago
How completely embarrassing for the churches of Christ.
eopedaw 1 year ago
By the way, I'm talking about the guy who posted this (Norm Fields), before I one of you guys think I'm insulting you.
CAUGHTUPALIVE1 1 year ago
Psalm 149 and 150, moron. Why not read the WHOLE BIBLE. Not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all be fulfilled. You are a legalist. Have fun pretending to praise the Lord. I'm glad you aren't trying to run a church. I'd feel bad for your sheep.
CAUGHTUPALIVE1 1 year ago
LIES LIES LIES. confess with your mouth and believe in your heart the he died and rose from the dead than ye shall be saved. WO UNTO THE MAN WHO SCATTERS MY SHEEP I WILL COME ON YOUR SHOW BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID IT DOESNT TELL YOU TO PLAY INSTRUMENTS IT ALSO DOESN'T TELL YOU NOT TO PLAY SO DONT ADD OR TAKE AWAY FROM HIS WORD. BUT IT DOES SAY EATING TO MUCH IS A SIN SO ARE YOU FOLLLOWING EVERYTHING IN THAT BIBLE OF YOURS OR ARE YOU PICKING AND CHOSING
miamiinskegee 1 year ago
baptists preachers are cowards for not wanting to
lovingangil 1 year ago
@greenbeans26 How can "YOU" break a law in the OT? Unless you r a Jew waaaay..back then. "YOU/WE can only break laws that R 4 us ie NT if you have obeyed that form of doctrine Rom 6:16-18. U have 2 rightly div Word. The Bible does not say not 2 use drugs. The point is we do what it says not what it does not. The bible NT by specf comnd says sing that excludes all others. Unless u can find a spec com that says dif it is exclus not inclusive.
6153calme 1 year ago
Many times in the New Testament it says to praise the Lord with psalms and hymns. James 5:13, Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19 The Greek for psalms is psallo number 5567 in strong's Greek/Hebrew. Which means to play on a stringed instrument ( celebrate the devine worship with music and accompanying odes) Look also at Greek psalmos number. 5568 accompanied with the harp or other instrument. Also, in Revelations 5:8, 15:2 it talks about the harps of God.
rejoice232 1 year ago
@rejoice232 that stringed instrm is the heart.Eph 5:19 says SPEAKING, Col 3:16 says SINGING, U cant speak/sing w/mech u strum/play them. The bible says when we sing we R2 teach/admon each othr U cant w/mech inst.Harps of Rev not literal, 5:8 says they R prayrs, 14:1-3 says Voice of harpers V3 says they sung,15:1-3 harps of God, V3 says they sing. Rev descrbs hvnly things w/earthly descriptn so we humans/earthlngs can undrstnd, havng nevr gone to heavn. No material things n hvn 1Cor 15:49-51
6153calme 1 year ago
Oops, Norm I found more about YOU in the Bible - they talk about you all over the place.
"But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
Matthew 23:13
Man, you are NEW TESTAMENT famous !!
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
READ...THE...WHOLE...CHAPTER. That why you can see this ONE verse in context. Then you will be able to understand what that group of 36 words words really means. You see...there are several hundred words in this chapter that pertain to the subject in verse 13.
godsRanger 2 years ago
An admonition to "read a verse, chapter, or book in context" from someone in the C of C denomination is rather laughable. With all due respect, I would suggest that you should considering doing the same....when and if you do, you will flee from the likes of PrecherNorm and Johnny Robertson.
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
dickiebow2003...when are you going on preachernorm show????
cooltkll 2 years ago
Comment removed
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
dickiebow2003....are you a minister & what church do you attend...why did you remove your most recent post...are you going to meet preacher norm in a public discussion of the scriptures???
cooltkll 2 years ago
Norm, where do you find authority in the Bible for your PRIDE, ARROGANCE, IGNORANCE, AND SMART-MOUTH ATTITUDE.
Oops, I found YOU in the Bible!
"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" Matt 23:15
"but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!" Matt 18:6-8
"Woe to you who are well-fed, but are still hungry." Luke 6:25
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
I'll come on your show - name the date and time!!
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
These Camelites are so retarded. They have no clue how to debate a scripture, they'd rather personalize their debates... Take pot shots as opposed to just sticking to scripture.
rickyhurtado 2 years ago
No they don't know how to debate - if you throw out scripture that is not apart of their 8-10 GO-TO verses you never hear from them again - they run and hide under the bed like Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons when confronted with scripture that is foreign to them; and that which clearly invalidates their limited theology. I'd like just 1 to respond to any of what I presented below. It's no wonder the Baptists have quit debating them - might as well have a good conversation with a hammer instead.
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
On top of that they refuse to debate to proper debating rules. they Interject when they feel to... My Pastor debated Johnny Robertson there in NC and everyone feel that through the Love of God he won but Johnny lied about the topics of debate. Some man of Word.
rickyhurtado 2 years ago
Johnny Robertson and PreacherNorm are running neck and neck in the 154th Annual Alexander Campbell Memorial False-Teaching Mule Race; and regardless of which one eventually takes the crown THEY ARE BOTH LOSERS, unless they repent of their comfortably ARROGANT, PRIDEFUL, SMART-MOUTHED, SMART-ATTITUDE, SECTARIAN, SUPREMELY IGNORANT FALSE TEACHING!!
Both have more interest in CHURCH OF CHRIST DOGMA than TRUTH; but is it any wonder, for the Holy Spirit resides in neither of their poor souls!!
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
It sure is'nt your authotity.The Church of Christ is a cult! Read the definition for the very verse you say gives you your name. The churches of christ salute you.The greek says that the churches is the people of christ.I'm glad I got saved out of it.
latabanza 3 years ago
In Matt. 22:14 it says many are called but few are chosen.
This parable does not mean that God calls a lot of people, picks over them, and keeps only a few. If that were true, the middle of the parable would have no meaning. It means that God calls everyone and gives them the power to respond—but to be chosen, we must respond to the call, using the power God gave us for that purpose.
shellbell289 3 years ago
Huh?
WE Respond, and THEN We're Chosen? Is that the order ?? Sounds backwards to me.
Many are called refers to the "general call" of the Gospel; the "few" refers to those who respond; the elect of God chosen before the foundation of the world - Eph.1:4.
And you are right, HE does gives us the ability to respond, as we are DEAD in trespasses and sin - Eph. 2:1 & 5 - He make us ALIVE in Eph. 2:5. Otherwise we cannot respond to the Gospel when we are dead.
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
God doesn't choose who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. We do. By living our lives for christ or ourselves we ultimately make that decision.
shellbell289 3 years ago
How do the verses below speak to your statement that "we ultimately make that decision"
"It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing." John 6:63. ***If it's YOUR decision then the flesh would profit everything! Right? "For this reason I have said to you, that NO ONE can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father." John6:65 ***Still your decision?
God does not choose who goes to hell - everyone is deserving of hell. God chooses who will receive mercy!
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
Anyone can be a calvinist in a church whether it be coc, baptist, non-denominational etc. I don't believe that only certain people are chosen and that our lives are pre-destines. I believe that God has chosen man kind but only few will decide to make God head over their lives. God does have a plan for all of us but we have to chose whether we decide to follow God's plan or not. That's the problem I have with predestination
shellbell289 3 years ago
So you just ignore these verses in the Bible?
"just as He CHOSE us in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him, In love He PREDESTINED us....according to the kind intention of HIS will. Eph 1:4-5
"....having been PREDESTINED according to HIS purpose who works all things after the counsel of HIS will." Eph 1:11
"and these whom He PREDESTINED, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified. Rom 8:30
Wow! Crystal Clear!
dickiebow2003 2 years ago
appollo had 3 daughters who all prophesied in the church. look in acts. The women Tryphena and Tryphosa as well as many others
shellbell289 3 years ago
yes much bigger wars to fight. what about people who have never heard of christ? What about people in other countries who are dying because of a corrupt government? And the only thing that is being said here is, instruments are evil. We as christians should be focusing on serving others, not wasting our time with petty arguments
shellbell289 3 years ago
No one said instruments are evil.
Error does not set men free, Truth sets men free.
The Bible says women shouldn't preach. I hope you don't think the Bible's absurd as you just posted.
I hope you submit to God one day.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
No you're taking what the bible completely out of context. Paul was talking to a particular church . Back then women were uneducated and were causing chaos during the worship. They were yelling across the room to their husbands and being obnoxious. That had to do with a specific culture at a specific church. If you look at Romans chapter 16 you will see phoebe a sister in the church who was the first deaconess. you will see priscilla who preached at her church, and mary who prophesied.
shellbell289 3 years ago
Romans 16 does not tell us that they took on the roles of men.
"Let deacons be the husbands of one wife."
Since deacons have to be husbands, it's impossible for Phoebe to be a deacon.
There are no verses that give liberty to re-interpret scriptural requirements due to cultural habitation.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
It also says: 4For he CHOSE us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5he PREDESTINED us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
So do you know the meaning or NOT?DON'T QUOTE SCRIPTURES TO shellbell289 & OTHERS UNTIL YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO ADDRESS IT'S MEANING - QUIT PICKING AND CHOSING WHAT YOU LIVE BY!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2 Timothy 3:15-17
THIS ASSUMES, OF COURSE, THAT YOU DON'T IGNORE SCRIPTURE THAT YOU EITHER YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, OR THAT BY RECIEVING IT YOU WOULD DETERMINE THAT YOUR THEOLOGY IS FLAWED AND IN SERIOUS ERROR.
Eph. 1:4-5
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2 Timothy 3:15-17
THIS ASSUMES, OF COURSE, THAT YOU DON'T IGNORE SCRIPTURE THAT EITHER YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, OR THAT BY RECIEVING IT YOU WOULD DETERMINE THAT YOUR THEOLOGY IS FLAWED AND IN SERIOUS ERROR.
Eph. 1:4-5
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
You haven't even addressed the role of priscilla and agrippa. As well as the others I listed. And you have failed to address my issue with the culture of that specific church.
shellbell289 3 years ago
As I said before; These women were not given the roles of Deacons nor any of the such. They were helpers of many and of Christ.
As far as cultural variations go, I shall say again; There are no verses that give liberty to re-interpret scriptural requirements due to cultural habitation.
the burden of redefining the Bible is on you.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
......and the burden of being a legalist, and refusing to address what you clearly do not understand is on you - Eph: 1-4-5
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
With love I say: Brother what are you doing. You are dividing a nation against itself. Yes the bible says sing and David sang while he played his harp. Where in the Bible does it say to wear a suit and tie? Take a bathroom break? Are we to sit in pews and what color? Did you use a computer for this? Are there computers in your church? Satan is out there dividing the Church (body of believers) with homosexuality, abortion, and legality and you are worried about such things as instruments?
greenbeans26 3 years ago
you cannot generalize every baptist church to be like that. In the same way within the churches of christ, there's a massive amount of ignorance and division within the church of christ
shellbell289 3 years ago
Hey shellbell289 - he can do anything he wants because he is a member of the C of C - they have "cornered the market" on ALL TRUTH while the rest of the world ignores TRUTH just for the fun of it I guess. So JDWhitehead can generalize ALL HE WANTS because HE"S SMARTER than you and I - and believe it or not he is able to achieve all of this WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT - it's all JDWhitehead. No No No, massive ignorance in the C of C denomination?? I DON'T SEE ANY ON DISPLAY !
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
God has given me a gift and I intend to use it for his glory, and it was not to teach pre-schoolers. I've been told Im of the weaker sex, and great purpose in life is to have children. Well, I think I was meant for something more than just that. And I know God thinks so too. I'll be praying for you sir, open your heart to God, don't close it. Open your ears and stop having selective hearing.
shellbell289 3 years ago
My eyes are quite open to God, but I have very selective hearing relative to apologist for the traditional church of Christ in which I grew up - JDWhitehead is a good example of a closed-minded apologist . A open-minded church of Christ like you have described at Richland Hills is one in which I am not familiar, but would no doubt find quite refreshing!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Hey Shelly, I encourage you to visit the worship services of the Churches of Christ. There's no division within the Church of Christ.
The reason their's so much division within the Baptist church is because the Baptist Pastors refuse to teach their theology (in depth) in fear of exposure to their error. Baptist preachers usually tell their members that they have liberty to interpret the scriptures differently than they do.
Any church that has division is not the Lord's Church.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
What a crock - THERE ARE NO DIVISIONS IN THE CofC DENOMINATION BECAUSE OF THE LIFE-LONG ENDOCTINATION OF ERROR.
ALSO, NEVER has a Baptist Minister espoused to a person that they "have liberty to interpret scripture differently - A LIE FROM JDW and RIGHT OUT OF THE PIT OF HELL.
And this ALSO from someone who refuses to address Eph 1 because it's NEW to him, and because he has no way of answering - his only course then is to IGNORE IT - SOME DEPTH OF THEOLOGY IF YOU HAVE TO IGNORE IT !!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Sir, I have read the very interesting banter between you and dickiebow. It appears that he has challenged you on the first chapter of Ephesians regarding the use of the words chosen and predestined. I too would like to here your response as well. Thank you.
veritassword 3 years ago
I grew up in the church of christ. do not tell me there's no division. Have you ever heard of Richland Hills Church of Christ? The biggest church of christ in america? It started an instrumental service the spring of 2007, and I was apart of the praise and worship team there. I know when there's division in the churches of christ. I've lived in it, and experienced it. When people tell me I'm going to hell for the way I worship my Lord Jesus Christ, I've got a huge problem. It was within the Coc
shellbell289 3 years ago
After people telling me that not only am I going to hell because of worshiping my Father in heaven with joy and thanksgiving, they've told me I'm going to hell for being a part of Richland Hills church and being good friends with Rick Atchley. Also, I'm a speaker, and i speak at functions with men and women talking about the bible and praying aloud. I've been told I need to shut up, and that I'm taking authority over the man which is also absurd.
shellbell289 3 years ago
Whoa were do you come off calling Baptists Calvinists? Calvinists believe that your destiny has already been planned out for you and there's no way you could ever change it. Once you were born, God either chose you to go to heaven, or chose you to go to hell...whatever happened to free will? Baptists do not take on that doctrine...I don't know what Baptist church you've been to...
shellbell289 3 years ago
Every Baptist Church except for the ones specifically named "Free Will Baptist Church".
Not to mention the massive amount of ignorance and division within the Baptist church.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
My guess is you had NO ANSWER after all !
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit ....to the praise of his glory."
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
If you want an intelligent conversation on the Calvinism, better described as Reformed Theology, JonathonDWhitehead is the wrong place to to turn - he knows nothing except CofC dogma. Also, just a correction if you will allow me - Calvin nor Luther believed in Double-Predestination i.e., God chooses who is SAVED as well as who is LOST - this is not what the Bible teaches. ALL are LOST - God choses ONLY who he will have mercy on. Check out the first 2 chapters of Ephesians - ALL GRACE & GLORY
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
I like BLARING TRUMPETS in worship - it's a nice reminder and prelude to the coming of the King in All His Glory
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
You said;
"Now that's what sad, you attempting to rationalize and understand the mind of God. "
The scripture says "therefor do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is." Ephesians 5:17
It cracks me up to hear you Calvinist say things like this. Your only hope to reconcile your renegade doctrines with the HOly Scriptures is to scream "Antinomy!" and run the other way.
Haha ( I want you to know that your responses really make me laugh, keep them coming.)
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
You said;
"I'd rather be a Christian saved by Grace ALONE, thru Faith ALONE, in Christ ALONE, attending a Baptist Church or a PCA Presbyterian Church"
I guess you do have an interest in being identified with Calvin seeing as he started the Presbyterian church. Haha.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
in Christ ALONE my hope is found he is my light my strength my song. I love worship. In spirit and in truth. Whenever I worship I feel like I'm dancing with my father in heaven. Ha yes I said it! DANCING!
shellbell289 3 years ago
My hope and yours are found in nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness - some sing it, but don't believe it - Jonathon sings it, but sadly does not believe it - he a robber of God's glory unfortunately. Great comments - I'm dancin' with ya!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Norm,
I'd rather be a Christian saved by Grace ALONE, thru Faith ALONE, in Christ ALONE, attending a Baptist Church or a PCA Presbyterian Church to worship my Lord and Savior than to be anywhere near a legalistic, self-righteous, Cult full of restored Pharisees.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
It's staggering to realize that the things you want to believe in can't be found in the Bible; Grace ALONE, Faith ALONE, Christ ALONE, Baptist Church, PCA Presbyterian Church.
There's a lot of People who want to believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster than be a Christian too.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Self -righteous, sectarian CULT can't be found in the Bible, but you seem to have no problem with that, huh?
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Eph. 8 For it is by GRACE you have been saved, through FAITH—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
I GUESS YOU THINK BECAUSE PAUL DID NOT ADD THE WORDS "ONLY" AFTER GRACE & FAITH, you can then add whatever you want to add - there you go again making your additions to suit your flawed theology.
Here's an great idea - try to live by your "you cannot add to the Bible" rule - then you won't be a hypocrite when you accuse others!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
You've got to be kidding me. Go read your Bible.
How hypocritical can you get? Calvinism's the biggest cult in America. Calvinism teaches that no one can be saved unless an extra-biblical divine intervention takes place.
Calvinism teaches that you can't understand the scriptures unless the Holy Spirit, extra-biblically, tells you what it means.
Now that's a cult.
How sad it is that you'd rather be a Calvinist than a Christian.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
I have no interest in being identified with Calvin or Luther, but rather the TRUTH of Holy Scripture, and REFORMED theology is what the Bible teaches from page 1 to the last page of Revelation - look at the WHOLE instead of misunderstanding and misinterpreting Act 2:38 and then bluilding your errant theology out from there. Now that's what sad, you attempting to rationalize and understand the mind of God.
........you thought I was altogether like you. Psalm 50:21
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
The Bible does not teach "Reformed Theology". The Bible teaches the Doctrines of Christ. 2 John 9
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Nice try again - The Bible never said anything about "Restoration Movement" either - so you keep on "picking and choosing" to suit your overwhelming legalism and "we call things by Bible names" - NO YOU DON'T - gemme a break - your inconsistencies are HIGH-LARIOUS ! ! !
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
This has to be a joke.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
I am not amused by cults and don't find them the least bit funny - you should leave yours before it's too late!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Here's a challenge - I'll put Drs. Albert Mohler, John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Sinclair Ferguson, Steven Lawson, and Ligon Duncan up against NORM along with the finest offered by David Lipscomb and Freed-Hardeman, and we'll see who reigns on the interpretation of Eph. 1:11
11 "In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will....."
Or just maybe you would like to set us reformers straight ??
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
I have no clue who those men are but you've made it apparent who's words you read most often.
As for you "challenge" on Ephesians 1, I'm still waiting for you to refute the truth I presented to you on John 6.
Unless you consider "WRONG YOU A CULT LEEDER I TRUTH KNOW" a refutation. (I used typos to express your refutation as accurately as I could)
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
I did not expect you would have any idea who those fine Bible scholars are, as they do not limit their theology to the Cut & Paste variety. And yes, the Holy Spirit guides me thru scripture; as it says in the Word: "The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:13-15
Obviously, this is where you incur your spiritual roadblock.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Repent of your cult.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Thank you for your concern, but on the topic of "Cults" I have no need to repent, as I live in the protestant world of believers saved by Grace. I DO NOT belong to can exclusive, dogmatic, sect that on so many points misinterprets or ignores scripture; and when clearly faced with Biblical Truth resorts to more scripture that they misinterpret with their limited "Human Logic and Understanding.
Tell me again, how you are capable of discerning truth from scripture without the help of the HS.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
What reference in John 6 and I will respond - my John 6 verse was: "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him;... John 6:44. It's QUITE CLEAR - its speaks to man's "Spiritual Deadness" and his "Absolute INABILITY" to come to Christ without GOD initaiting it. You gave some CofC convoluted rejection of truth by equating "God" with the "Bible' as the drawing agent - IT DID NOT SAY "BIBLE DRAWS" It Says "GOD DRAWS"!
Now take on "chosen" and "Predestination" in Eph 1:5
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Here, I'll make it easy for you to locate the verse in Ephesians - that's in the New Testament - 9th book.
4....just as HE CHOSE us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him, In love 5 HE PREDESTINED us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind INTENTION of HIS WILL, 6 to the praise of the GLORY of HIS GRACE....Eph. 1:4-6
Give it you best shot JDW, but don't rely on the Holy Spirit or Norm for any help!!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Still waiting - Eph 1 - CHOSEN & PREDESTINED
1 Corinthians 2:10-12 (NIV)
10but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Your Bible lesson for today - Topic: The Holy Spirit John 16:12-14 (NIV) 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Here's a New Mantra and Creed (and you C of C-ers say you don't have a Creed?) for your demonination:
*We Speak Where the Bible Speaks!
*We're Silent Where the Bible is Silent!
*And We Gutlessly Ignore the Rest!
(especially Ephesians 1:4-5)
I LIKE THAT - that's a real winner - and SEEMS QUITE APROPRO
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
STILL WAITING - Ephesians 1 - Are your Skeeerd of Eph 1:4-6?
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
I quess skeerd means to be afraid. Why would anyone be afraid of the words of God? Any way if predestination is problem for you I would suggest you study the love of God for mankind. The predestination then becomes clear that he is speaking to those who obey his Gospel. God grace has appeared to all. Titus speaks of this but his word says not all will come to a knowledge of him. Those he predestined will be those who come to the knowledge of God and obeying that word. 2 Thess 1:8
johnnymiller1954 3 years ago
I certainly am not scared of the sacred word of God, but it appears that JDWhitehead is - he likes to comment on the"sacred' verses that support his "cut & paste" errant theology, but seems to have an issue with addressing Eph 2:4-5 because it conflicts with his Armimian "works/rightous" mentality. Like most people with the CofC denomination he runs from verses that compomise his endoctination. He has no understanding of Grace in Eph2 and is a "robber of God's Glory". So where do you stand?
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
"STILL WAITING - Ephesians 1 - Are your Skeeerd of Eph 1:4-6?"
Convenient how you leave out verse three.....Paul is talking to Christians, those who are IN CHRIST....those who have obeyed the Gospel, having been baptized into Christ, are the predestined....You are the true "cut an paste" bandit it seems, willingly cutting out the parts that don't suit your perversions of God's word....you should repent, soon
TruthChamp 3 years ago
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world
So he's speaking to Christian - am I in diagreement with that? So are you saying God LOOKED INTO THE FUTURE - DETERMINED WHO WOULD RESPOND IN FAITH - AND THEN PREDESTINE THEM BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD - What exactly is your point?
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Actually, the largest Cults in America are by membership:
1. The Roman Catholic Church
2. The Church of Latter Day Saints
3. The Church of Christ - Campbellites
4. Jehovah's Witness
5. Disciples of Christ
That's quite impressive for Alexander Campbell - he or his followers are responsible for starting #2, #3, and # 5. I expect he's paying a big price for that as we speak!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Hebrews 7:25 (New American Standard Bible) Hebrews 7:25
"Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."
WE'LL LET GOD HAVE THE FINAL WORD MR. WHITEHEAD!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
So long as I am drawing near to him he shall save me and make intercession for me.
Too bad your false doctrines cause you to WITHdraw from him.
Indeed God shall have the final word, in flaming fire taking vengence on them that know not God, and that OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
I obey the Gospel WITHOUT adding to it!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
So those who "OBEY NOT the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." (your words) are the poor folk who are not apart of the C of C sect? Is that not what you are saying?
As for your "abiding in Him" - you, nor anyone else has the ability to "abide in Him" if did not first "keep you."
Please, Please, Please - quit taking credit for things that only God can do - QUIT robbing God of His Glory!!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
"Obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" These are not my words but Gods words. Read your Bible. 2 Thess 1:8
We are told to keep ourselves in the love of God. Jude 21 And we do this by keeping his commandments. "Whosoever keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected; by this we know we that we are in him." 1 John 2:5
I have not taken credit for the things that only God can do.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
You write above - "......by this we know we that we are in him." 1 John 2:5
Thanks you for offering up another good example of ASSURANCE - what a shame you don't embrace it!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
All sin comes through temptation. So if you ever succumbed to the temptation continually like a pattern then, by your own admission, would be evidence that you are not saved. Even though you (somehow) believe that you're saved right now.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
That's right - I'm saved right now! I am a sinner, but the pattern and desire of my life is obedience . Thank you God, How Great Thou Art - thanks for your Amazing Grace.
HELLO you.tube veiwers - Stop the Presses - Call Nightline, Call Walter Cronkite, Call the Guinness Book of World Record - JonathanDWhitehead is attempting to live his life and earn salvation BY NEVER SINNING!!
Good-bye Mr. Whitehead - I will be praying for your eternal soul!
Hebrew 7:25
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Sorry Jonathon - you won't be able to take credit for salvation after all for, "it's by HIS DOING you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption.1 Cor 1:30
You Like Bible Answers?
Paul speaks to MY ASSURANCE again: "For I am confident of this very thing, that HE WHO BEGAN a good work in you WILL PERFECT IT until the day of Christ Jesus." Phil. 1:6
Keep doing whatever you do to merit favor - I'll rest in my assurance!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
I've never taken credit for my salvation. Christ will perfect the good work that he began so long as I abide in him.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Your words - "so long as I abide in him" - so there's still a chance you'll "fall away" huh?
I remember a song that the Church of Christ liked to sing - one verse went - "....I am confident that HE IS ABLE TO KEEP THAT which I've commited....... until that day..." You still have it REVERSED buddy - it's still all about what YOU DO TO KEEP THAT!!!! Your Effort..... Your Abiding....... If I were you, I'd quit singing that song since you dont' believe it!!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Let's use the C of C rules. Here's what Paul wrote:
.......... HE WHO BEGAN a good work in you WILL PERFECT IT until the day of Christ Jesus." Phil. 1:6
Here's what you added: ..........so long as I abide in him.
QUIT ADDING TO WHAT PAUL SAID - THAT'S THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR CULT - YOU PICK AND CHOSE TO MAINTAIN YOUR ERRANT THEOLOGY!!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
And you've taken away the rest of the epistle by not quoting it.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
"And if the righteous are scarcely saved, where shall the ungodly and the SINNER appear?"
Cast into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone.
I cannot earn my salvation for it is by Grace THROUGH faith.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Norm, answer some questions for me. 1. Can you spell HUMILITY? 2. Are the "7 deadly sins" in the bible? I know one is gluttony - do you ever preach on that? 3. Where in the Bible does it say, "man should not live by bread alone, but biscuits and gravy in the AM, a bucket of KFC at noon, and a pound of Pizza Hut pasta at dinner. Where does the Bible authorize that?
This was my best attempt to imitate your insensitivity, prideful attitude, and self-righteousness - a pretty good job huh?
veritassword 3 years ago 3
Hey Norm, where is your authority for church pews?
Correct interpretation of Eph. 5:19: make melody - To The Lord WITH ALL YOU HEART, not make "melody in your heart! The prior verse speaks to being filled with the spirit - it was not a preface to some "legalistic instruction on no musical instriments" NORM, DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE HEBREW LANGUAGE, OBVIOUSLY NOT.
Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:17-19
PROUD, PROUD NORM - FALSE TEACHER!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Hypocrite.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Yes, you are correct - P.Norm is a Hypocrite - in fact he defines the word with his false teaching.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Perhaps you should examine Calvinism a little more closely as it is the Heresy spoken of by the Apostle John.
Your arrogance proceeds to prove my point.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
I prefer Martin Luther to Calvin - Luther understood what you clearly do not.
"know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."
Gal. 2:15-17
Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." Gal 3:10-12
Keep "working" for it pal!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
It's clear that you have no clue as of what you talk about.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
OK, since you're so smart tell me what Jesus meant when he said,
"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.....
John 6:43
My guess is you won't come close.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I prefer Martin Luther to Calvin - Luther understood what you clearly do not.
"know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified."
Gal. 2:15-17
Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." Gal 3:10-12
Keep "working" for it pal!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Hey Norm, Christ did not authorize a Proud, Legalitic Church either!!
Norm you better REPENT and leave your C of C DENOMINATION!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
We arent Campbellites, the church of Christ was around long before he was born....besides his teachings do not fully correspond to the Bible, some...but not all......GRAHAM CRACKERS????....lack of respect for authority, do not add to the Bible, we are commanded to eat the bread & drink of the fruit of the vine.....is milk a fruit???...umm no
1tim31617 3 years ago
why dont we go to book og JOHN .99% says BELIEVED IN CHRIST AND THOU SHALT BE SAVE...ALWAYS BELIEVING UNTO SOME1 W/C IS JESUS NOT BELIEVED SOMETHING. AND BY THE WAY JUST A QUESTION WHAT (PREACHER NORM PASTOR IN?) IT SAYS HIS A PREACHER...SO WHERE IS HE GOING TO BRING HIS CONVERTS?
joey2spn 3 years ago
WOW, It has been 11-Months since I posted my 1st comment from here!
Now, I can honestly say that I am no longer a member of the Church of Christ nor do I belong to any religion or any church. I've been a Church of Christ member for 3years and thought that by believing in the sound doctrine, the solid teaching of the Holy-bible was the answer to help me find my answer...
perfecthigh713 3 years ago
The answer that I was looking for is the answer to all problems and so therefore I was searching for GOD.
I realized that the Church of Christ was not the answer to help me find God, although It did help me steer away from it so that I can find my answer which IS GOD/HEAVEN/EXISTENCE.
A homeless on the street who has never read the bible or baptized or attended church can Have God and Heaven, while still alive or not.
Although to the bible, what I have just said is considered Blasphemy.
perfecthigh713 3 years ago
Cambellistes...plain and simple
OnlyTheScriptures 3 years ago
Have you started a new cult?
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
no..just follow the Apostles dude..and their message
OnlyTheScriptures 3 years ago
Norm's cult is the same Ole' Cult - No GRACE, but Salvation by "Human Achievement." A little grace to get started, and NORM WILL DO THE REST!
"You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."
Galatians 5:3-5
Norm is a PERFORMANCE BASED FALSE TEACHER - he thinks he can lose his salavation. Heaven to Norm: IF YOU LOST IT, YOU NEVER HAD IT!!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Christ did not authorize a Proud, Legalitic Church like Norms!!
Norm better REPENT and leave his C of C DENOMINATION before it's to late!
Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
Proverbs 16:17-19
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
How funny it is that you agree that Martin Luther and John Calvin are modern day Gnostics.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Comment removed
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
I never agreed that Luther and Calvin are modern day Gnostics any more than you agreed that P.Norm is a false teacher who adds to Saving Grace, as opposed to responding to Saving Grace - which he most certainly is.
You must be of the Church of Christ sect, as I see you have a propensity to put words in other peoples mouths. So why don't you attempt to answer my question - tell me what Jesus meant when he said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.....
John 6:43
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Still waiting on an answer -
tell me what Jesus meant when he said, "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him.....
John 6:43
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
It means...
"How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?"
The gospel is God's power unto salvation. The Gospel is the avenue in which God draws men.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Let's try ONE MORE time - I knew you'd get it wrong and offer some left-field CofC answer. Now address each part: "No one can come to me unless the Father ..... draws him.
God is not defined as "the Gospel" - he is the Holy Person and Sovereign Creator and King of the Universe - what does this verse say about man's ability or inability to come to Christ until (Unless) the the person of the Father initiates the process? We love Him - why? - because he first loved us.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
That was no left field answer. That was a Bible answer for a Bible question.
The means by which God calls men is through the Gospel because it is the power of God unto salvation.
If only your polluted mind would read a little further into this passage you would find that God draws men by teaching them through the Gospel. "It is written... They shall all be taught by God... anyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me."
Man is unable to come to the Father without a preacher.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Let's try ONE MORE time - God draws men - "No one can come to me unless the Father ..... draws him.
God is not defined as "the Gospel" - he is the Holy Person and Sovereign Creator and King of the Universe - what does this verse say about man's ability or inability to come to Christ until (Unless) the the person of the Father initiates the process? We love Him - why? - because he first loved us.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Poor DickieBow. Doesn't he know that Pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall?
When will he stop being so legalistic and find Grace?
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Freind - EASY QUESTION - do you have assurance of your salvation OR are you waiting to the end to see how you "grade out?"
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
On the contrary my friend, do you have assurance of your salvation or are you waiting for the end to see how you grade out?
There's no assurance in Once Saved Always Saved.
OSAS is works salvation.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Yes, I have assurance - I was sealed - Eph 1: 13. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.......
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
Which one of these sins can you commit and still go to heaven? Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, sorcery, hatred, strife, jealousy, wrath, factions, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revelings?
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
That is a catalog list of major sins that characterize the unsaved. The pattern of life for the believer is obedience - that does not mean that they do not sin, and it does not mean they lose their salvation when they do sin. True believers mourn their sin, seek continued forgiveness, and seek to gain victory over it. New life in Christ breaks sin's total domination and is replaced by a new pattern of obedience. Again, any pattern of unrepentant sin is evidence that a person is not saved.
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
(Buzzz) Wrong.
The members of the Lord's Church only acknowledge Bible answer's. The answer is; As I have told you in times pas that they who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Because...
"He that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done AND THERE IS NO RESPECT OF PERSONS." Col 3:25
You've also proved my point on the lack of security within your religion by saying "any pattern of unrepentant sin is evidence that a person is not saved." (Continued.)
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
Wow - Congratulations - I'd like to meet you personally - a perfect person - congratulations again!
dickiebow2003 3 years ago
AREN'T WE A TEMPLE
IshSechelsonofLevi 3 years ago
Remember, the Old Testament is what gives the New Testament it's authority. Don't disregard the worship with song and dance and harps and all kinds of other praises given to God.
raiderbabe89 3 years ago
"when you make melody with your heart, it comes out of your mouth"
I have to disagree Preacher Norm. When you make melody in your heart, you are worshiping God in spirit and in truth. Meaning, that the words that you are using to praise God are the words inside your heart. Not just words, but actions as well reflects your heart. You can lift your hand to God in a song and that's making melody with your heart. Clapping and rejoicing in worship is melody in your heart. Read the Psalms
raiderbabe89 3 years ago
1) Psalms is not the New Testament, and there were no Churches in the Old Testament
2) Did GOD ever authorize music in the Church?
3) Romans 15:4 -The things written aforetime are for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
sdbsingle1 3 years ago
1) Psalms is part of God's inspired word and is just as important to the scriptures as any book apart of the New Testament. Why reject Psalms when there is so much praise toward the father?
2) When did God say not to use music? Do not use...?
raiderbabe89 3 years ago
correction
first read the whole chapter to understand what it was that Paul was speaking of, don't just pull out scriptures that have nothing to do with this context. Secondly, I don't know what version of the bible you are using but I translated the verse in greek and the correct phrase would be For everything that was written in the past was written for our instruction....one more time....instruction
raiderbabe89 3 years ago
2.) God didn't say we couldn't eat Graham Crackers and drink milk for the Lords supper either.
God didn't say not to get a sex change.
Behold, you've gone in the way of Cain insisting on worshiping God in your own way.
JonathanDWhitehead 3 years ago
correction
first read the whole chapter to understand what it was that Paul was speaking of, don't just pull out scriptures that have nothing to do with this context. Secondly, I don't know what version of the bible you are using but
was written for our instruction
raiderbabe89 3 years ago
Notice how the man will not aknowledge that he is a member of the abusive heavy shepherding 'Church of Christ'. Just like all cults, he hides behind a name Why not "The church of Jesus Christ of Latter day saints"? They use Jesus name same as this guy but his conclusion is as wrong as they are. No one whether baptist, church of Christ or Methodist, belongs to Christ if they have not his spirit (Romans 8:9).
Ahouseisnotahome 3 years ago
I worry more for the salvation of those who judge within the church body than the ones who are lost outside of it
raiderbabe89 3 years ago
Hey Norm: Don't you know that in Eph 5:19 and Col 3:16, the admonition to sing with grace in your hearts to the Lord is NOT addressed to THE CHURCH, it is addressed to CHRISTIANS!
If it is a sin to have music in the church, how come its not a sin to lusten to christian music in your home or in your car? When are you going to show me a worship service in the Bible anyway? Just wondering.
Mark Robbins
savinggrace4u2 3 years ago