Nice video! I beleive the MPPT looks like less of a load to the PV which is why the voltage is higher than normal. Most PV panels are rated Vp max is typically @17.5V (under load) Voc is typically @21V (Open Voltage). The MPPT also is charging the battery at a higher voltage than PWM. The higher the V into the battery the current will go up. The MPPT is probably putting out even more than 12.2V, but the battery absorbs it. A battery is like a giant capasitor. Basicly MPPT more efficient charger!
@mjlorton Very interesting... I don't understand what goes on in the Guts of a Charge Controller. I thought they merely monitored Batt. Voltage, & let ALL the available PV current go to the Batt., until the Bulk Charge/ Float Voltage was reached, & the Regulator then begins Tapering the Charge...? I'm fairly Plug & Play with the Electricksities. But, I have proved that I turned my PV into a 'Solar Thermal Ramjet' (search that !) while I was streamlining it !
Thank you Mjlorton for your quick, professional and easy to understand advice. You've saved me and I think many others a lot of time, money and trouble!
Thank you for sharing and researching this! Question. Did the MPPT have less effect on the amorphous input versus the monocrystalline, or vica versa? Thus I am wondering if having a MPPT charger is more important depending on which type of panel one has. Thank you.
@oilspeculatorhater Thanks for your comment. MPPT tends to be far more effective with a higher voltage input. This means that if you are only have one or two PV's in an array amorphous would be a better match as they generally output higher voltages than monocrystalline.If you want the best effeciency in terms of PV's then string multiple mono's togther in series to get the higher voltage into the MPPT charger. Short answere to your question:MPPT has more effect for amorphous
mjorton, thanks for the reply. Some of us "Solarites" were discussing the Vpanel as the Mppt contoller was charging. Your Vpanel was in the 19's well above the optimum 17.x panel (s) Vmp. I have seen this with my Morning Star SS mppt and reviewed other individuals mppt controllers doing this also.
@jimbot168 Yes, you have certainly drawn my attention to the operating voltage of the PV and 19 volts does certainly seem too high for a 17 volt PV. I will do some investigation and post if I have some feedback of value. Thanks for keeping an eye on the detail Jim. Cheers,
@jimbot168 Hi Jim, Thanks for your comments. I will also reply to your email. The specs for the two panels used are as follows: CDT polycrystalline PV: Power 50 Watts, rated voltage: 17 volts, open circuit voltage: 21 volts, rated current: 2.95 Amps, short circuit current: 3.55 Amps.
HQRP Monocrystalline PV: Power 50 watt, rated voltage 17.6 volts, open circuit voltage: 21.5 volts, rated current: 2.85 Amps, short circuit current: 3.2 Amps.
@jimbot168 Thanks for the information. You are the only one that is doing a direct side by side test of the two solar charging technologies. The Morningstar SS MPPT is a great controller with temp comp.
If you still have the setup how about a test compare between PWM and MPPT with your panels at a Summer/noon temperature? We know that Vpanel (Vmp) drops off as the temperature rises.
Using the same Vbatt that you did in the test. Many of us would be interested in the results....
Maybe a lttle off topic but, you can never really compare amorphous, poly and mono to see which one is better. Firstly, it is almost impossible to find panels of these 3 types with the exact same specs. Secondly, even with tight tolerance of +/- 3%, you looking at 6% difference out from the factory in the worst case scenario. But great vdeo nevertheless. Saw your other vids too. Look forward to your video reply. :)
@Mr9SKY Mmmm...fair comment but I think a comparison does show some interesting diffences between the different technologies....I'll have to respond with a video in our summer once the review / comparison is complete. Thanks again for watching and the comments.
This was a brilliant vid. I really got something out of it. I know a few things now. I want for sure to go with MPPT and other is I would like to get the product you have on top that shows all the readings. Also maybe one or two of the watts up devices.
Excellent video. I am going to buy a morningstar mppt charge controller. I just got a wellsee mppt-30, but I think it's just a regular pwm charge controller. Perhaps you can replace the morning star with a wellsee mppt-30 and see if it really is an mppt charge controller!
@garyhgaryh Thanks for your comment. Good point about the Wellsee, I was nevery happy with the one I have but I have never done a direct comparison....I'll do that next. Thanks.
this is exactly what I need to prove to a friend that MPPT is not smoke and mirrors. He refuses to see that even if the Amps do increase when the panel is under load that it is less wattage! He also has a 100 foot run from the panels to the charger and lives in Montana where cold temps help raise cell power! he has a great application for great gain with MPPT but is too #&@# ing cheap to buy one! Thank you so much for the video!!!!!!! Joe
The thing is: what if I want to charge my 12 V mobile phone battery? I can't plug in more than 14 V at most, or I'd burn it for sure. If for example my solar panel's maximum power point is at 20 V, I have to step down this voltage to the battery supportable voltage. So I need a MPPT to force 20 V on the solar panel, and then a buck DC/DC converter to put 12 V in my battery. Am I right?
Dear mjlorton is the output maximized by(a) MPPT controller alone , I mean MPPT controller maximizing power of a panel which is static or not rotating or not solar tracking for peak sunlight angle available, or (b) MPPT controller maximizing output by controlling / rotating solar tracking of the panels or (c) panel is solar tracking for getting most sunlight as per time of day independently and MPPT controller then maximizes output. i want to know if solar tracking is required for max powerpt
great video but i have noticed that when i use a turnigy volt meter i lose quite a few watts have you noticed any difference seeing as you use a few also is it safe to leave the meters on all the time,keep up the good work
@caravanman08 The loss of watts might be due to wiring or other loses in the system. The Turnigy and Wattsup meters are safe to be left on as long as they are well within their current rating. Thanks for watching and commenting.
A solar man and a Ham! good combo! Love the video! a fellow ham thinks MPPT is smoke and mirrors and wont listen to me! Funny thing is, I get the same amperage from my 420W PV array that he gets from his 1200W PV array! I use Blue Sky 3024il and he uses a PWM Trace. I get more with less! ha ha! 73 TU AR SK ..
So what MPPT charge controller would you recommend for around 24a, 12 v battery system, if i wanted to stay around $100, more or less. Anyone can recommend any?
@PiercingKnight I would not purchase any MPPT controller that costs less than $200, I have one that costs about $120 and it's not great...I also think that any MPPT controller that needs to cater for 24Amp (with a display.....) will cost $250 +++. If you want to go the MPPT route (which I would recommend)...buy the best controller you can afford.
@mjlorton Thanks man, is it the wellsee controller that you have, because these seem to be the cheapest and most common that you can find on ebay. If I bought 50 Am one it would cost like $150.
@nickskethisnikske I'm not satisfied with the Wellsee as the build quality is not the best in my opinion and it does not reset itself after a low voltage cut off.
I don't need something hi-tech, just something that will take all(I know it's not possible) the watts and put it in my battery. I don't need features like display or special settings, just something that works.
I ask you because I have no experience with mppt controllers.
Agreed!! I also tried a wellsee mppt 15a charger. Junk! First one was dead. The second one - it's output current was never higher than input side - no better than pwm controller. Stay away from them. I returned it and am looking for a Steca, bluesky, or morningstar controller. Rogue MPPT would be my first choice, but a bit pricey for my setup. I think I would do better buying a quality pwm controller from one of the above reputable companies and an extra 90watt panel for the price.
@PiercingKnight for between $300-$400 the BlueSky 3024il can handle 30 amps at 12 or 24V output. they make a diversion mod for it so you can heat water once your batteries are full, you can control lights, Low Voltage disconnect, control a 20 amp circuit by voltage or amp hours in the bats! remote temp sensor, the works! Most of the things listed here need the IPN pro remote to set the on/off of the options ($200) But is an awesome set up! they have bigger or smaller controllers too! FYI Joe
@toobroke2fight thanks those are great indeed, but for me the winner is Rogue MPT-3024, this thing is just so amazing for the price with so many features, such as detailed display. I did extensive research and found out that many experts have reviewed this on different forums and are highly recommending it.
@PiercingKnight I like the 30 days of data logging! I have to use a notebook daily b-4 bed ha ha. I just took a peek at it, but ill look more later! I try to log all the data I can and try to improve often! I dont use much power lately, and i usually harvest about 100AH's a day. 1/2 of that is heating water. ( dump load) I have seen 210AH in one day. My system does not track yet, but will soon! redrok to the rescue! 73 TU AR SK ..
a better real world test would be to see how long it would take to bring up two equally discharged batteries with identical panels using MPPT vs PWM to race to see which could reach full capacity first. If this is possible.
My only concern with MPPT is that they do tend to be a bit noisy on RF. If using MPPT units at VHF radio repeater sites for example, they can raise the local noise floor considerably.
@sparktastic1 Thanks for your comment. You make a very good point, I had thought of using a MPPT charger in my FT-817 Go-Pack but would have been a ptential (noise) issue.
Nice video! I beleive the MPPT looks like less of a load to the PV which is why the voltage is higher than normal. Most PV panels are rated Vp max is typically @17.5V (under load) Voc is typically @21V (Open Voltage). The MPPT also is charging the battery at a higher voltage than PWM. The higher the V into the battery the current will go up. The MPPT is probably putting out even more than 12.2V, but the battery absorbs it. A battery is like a giant capasitor. Basicly MPPT more efficient charger!
smclane6 1 month ago
@smclane6 Thanks for the feedback and for watch the video.
mjlorton 1 month ago
@mjlorton Very interesting... I don't understand what goes on in the Guts of a Charge Controller. I thought they merely monitored Batt. Voltage, & let ALL the available PV current go to the Batt., until the Bulk Charge/ Float Voltage was reached, & the Regulator then begins Tapering the Charge...? I'm fairly Plug & Play with the Electricksities. But, I have proved that I turned my PV into a 'Solar Thermal Ramjet' (search that !) while I was streamlining it !
WarblesOnALot 2 months ago
Thank you Mjlorton for your quick, professional and easy to understand advice. You've saved me and I think many others a lot of time, money and trouble!
oilspeculatorhater 3 months ago
@oilspeculatorhater Only a pleasure, thanks for the feedback.
mjlorton 3 months ago
Thank you for sharing and researching this! Question. Did the MPPT have less effect on the amorphous input versus the monocrystalline, or vica versa? Thus I am wondering if having a MPPT charger is more important depending on which type of panel one has. Thank you.
oilspeculatorhater 3 months ago
@oilspeculatorhater Thanks for your comment. MPPT tends to be far more effective with a higher voltage input. This means that if you are only have one or two PV's in an array amorphous would be a better match as they generally output higher voltages than monocrystalline.If you want the best effeciency in terms of PV's then string multiple mono's togther in series to get the higher voltage into the MPPT charger. Short answere to your question:MPPT has more effect for amorphous
mjlorton 3 months ago
mjorton, thanks for the reply. Some of us "Solarites" were discussing the Vpanel as the Mppt contoller was charging. Your Vpanel was in the 19's well above the optimum 17.x panel (s) Vmp. I have seen this with my Morning Star SS mppt and reviewed other individuals mppt controllers doing this also.
What are your thoughts in regards to this?
Jim
jimbot168 4 months ago
@jimbot168 Yes, you have certainly drawn my attention to the operating voltage of the PV and 19 volts does certainly seem too high for a 17 volt PV. I will do some investigation and post if I have some feedback of value. Thanks for keeping an eye on the detail Jim. Cheers,
Martin.
mjlorton 3 months ago
Could you provide the panel spec's. The Vmp is a little high for a 17.x panel.
This is a great presentation, thanks for your effort.
Jim
jimbot168 4 months ago
@jimbot168 Hi Jim, Thanks for your comments. I will also reply to your email. The specs for the two panels used are as follows: CDT polycrystalline PV: Power 50 Watts, rated voltage: 17 volts, open circuit voltage: 21 volts, rated current: 2.95 Amps, short circuit current: 3.55 Amps.
HQRP Monocrystalline PV: Power 50 watt, rated voltage 17.6 volts, open circuit voltage: 21.5 volts, rated current: 2.85 Amps, short circuit current: 3.2 Amps.
mjlorton 4 months ago
@jimbot168 Thanks for the information. You are the only one that is doing a direct side by side test of the two solar charging technologies. The Morningstar SS MPPT is a great controller with temp comp.
If you still have the setup how about a test compare between PWM and MPPT with your panels at a Summer/noon temperature? We know that Vpanel (Vmp) drops off as the temperature rises.
Using the same Vbatt that you did in the test. Many of us would be interested in the results....
Jim
jimbot168 3 months ago
Maybe a lttle off topic but, you can never really compare amorphous, poly and mono to see which one is better. Firstly, it is almost impossible to find panels of these 3 types with the exact same specs. Secondly, even with tight tolerance of +/- 3%, you looking at 6% difference out from the factory in the worst case scenario. But great vdeo nevertheless. Saw your other vids too. Look forward to your video reply. :)
Mr9SKY 8 months ago
@Mr9SKY Mmmm...fair comment but I think a comparison does show some interesting diffences between the different technologies....I'll have to respond with a video in our summer once the review / comparison is complete. Thanks again for watching and the comments.
mjlorton 8 months ago
Comment removed
Mr9SKY 8 months ago
This was a brilliant vid. I really got something out of it. I know a few things now. I want for sure to go with MPPT and other is I would like to get the product you have on top that shows all the readings. Also maybe one or two of the watts up devices.
1kzrider 9 months ago
@1kzrider I'm glad it was useful. Thanks for the comments.
mjlorton 9 months ago
Excellent video. I am going to buy a morningstar mppt charge controller. I just got a wellsee mppt-30, but I think it's just a regular pwm charge controller. Perhaps you can replace the morning star with a wellsee mppt-30 and see if it really is an mppt charge controller!
garyhgaryh 9 months ago
@garyhgaryh Thanks for your comment. Good point about the Wellsee, I was nevery happy with the one I have but I have never done a direct comparison....I'll do that next. Thanks.
mjlorton 9 months ago
watt's up
PINKBOY1006 10 months ago
watts'up
PINKBOY1006 10 months ago
this is exactly what I need to prove to a friend that MPPT is not smoke and mirrors. He refuses to see that even if the Amps do increase when the panel is under load that it is less wattage! He also has a 100 foot run from the panels to the charger and lives in Montana where cold temps help raise cell power! he has a great application for great gain with MPPT but is too #&@# ing cheap to buy one! Thank you so much for the video!!!!!!! Joe
toobroke2fight 10 months ago
@toobroke2fight No smoke and mirrors....happy it helps prove a point. Thanks for your comments.
mjlorton 10 months ago
The thing is: what if I want to charge my 12 V mobile phone battery? I can't plug in more than 14 V at most, or I'd burn it for sure. If for example my solar panel's maximum power point is at 20 V, I have to step down this voltage to the battery supportable voltage. So I need a MPPT to force 20 V on the solar panel, and then a buck DC/DC converter to put 12 V in my battery. Am I right?
T0B0KKE 11 months ago
@T0B0KKE You only need the MPPT controller which will do the DC/DC conversion too.
mjlorton 10 months ago
@mjlorton As far as I understand this, the MPPT just feeds the reference voltage to the DC/DC converter. The voltage which yields the maximum power.
T0B0KKE 10 months ago
Dear mjlorton is the output maximized by(a) MPPT controller alone , I mean MPPT controller maximizing power of a panel which is static or not rotating or not solar tracking for peak sunlight angle available, or (b) MPPT controller maximizing output by controlling / rotating solar tracking of the panels or (c) panel is solar tracking for getting most sunlight as per time of day independently and MPPT controller then maximizes output. i want to know if solar tracking is required for max powerpt
alfapapasingh 11 months ago
great video but i have noticed that when i use a turnigy volt meter i lose quite a few watts have you noticed any difference seeing as you use a few also is it safe to leave the meters on all the time,keep up the good work
caravanman08 1 year ago
@caravanman08 The loss of watts might be due to wiring or other loses in the system. The Turnigy and Wattsup meters are safe to be left on as long as they are well within their current rating. Thanks for watching and commenting.
mjlorton 1 year ago
A solar man and a Ham! good combo! Love the video! a fellow ham thinks MPPT is smoke and mirrors and wont listen to me! Funny thing is, I get the same amperage from my 420W PV array that he gets from his 1200W PV array! I use Blue Sky 3024il and he uses a PWM Trace. I get more with less! ha ha! 73 TU AR SK ..
toobroke2fight 1 year ago
@toobroke2fight Many thanks for your feedback and the chuckle!
mjlorton 1 year ago
So what MPPT charge controller would you recommend for around 24a, 12 v battery system, if i wanted to stay around $100, more or less. Anyone can recommend any?
PiercingKnight 1 year ago
@PiercingKnight I would not purchase any MPPT controller that costs less than $200, I have one that costs about $120 and it's not great...I also think that any MPPT controller that needs to cater for 24Amp (with a display.....) will cost $250 +++. If you want to go the MPPT route (which I would recommend)...buy the best controller you can afford.
mjlorton 1 year ago
@mjlorton Thanks man, is it the wellsee controller that you have, because these seem to be the cheapest and most common that you can find on ebay. If I bought 50 Am one it would cost like $150.
PiercingKnight 1 year ago
@PiercingKnight Yes, I have a Wellsee and personally I would not buy Wellsee again as I'm not very impressed with their 10amp MPPT controller.
mjlorton 1 year ago
@mjlorton
Why you are not satisfied?
Because I'm planning to buy a mppt
nickskethisnikske 1 year ago
@nickskethisnikske I'm not satisfied with the Wellsee as the build quality is not the best in my opinion and it does not reset itself after a low voltage cut off.
mjlorton 1 year ago
@mjlorton
But it will do the job?
I don't need something hi-tech, just something that will take all(I know it's not possible) the watts and put it in my battery. I don't need features like display or special settings, just something that works.
I ask you because I have no experience with mppt controllers.
thanks, btw I like your video posts!
nickskethisnikske 1 year ago
@nickskethisnikske Yes, it will do the job and will be better than a cheap PWM charger.
Thanks for your comments.
Martin.
mjlorton 1 year ago
Agreed!! I also tried a wellsee mppt 15a charger. Junk! First one was dead. The second one - it's output current was never higher than input side - no better than pwm controller. Stay away from them. I returned it and am looking for a Steca, bluesky, or morningstar controller. Rogue MPPT would be my first choice, but a bit pricey for my setup. I think I would do better buying a quality pwm controller from one of the above reputable companies and an extra 90watt panel for the price.
lobod80 1 year ago
@PiercingKnight for between $300-$400 the BlueSky 3024il can handle 30 amps at 12 or 24V output. they make a diversion mod for it so you can heat water once your batteries are full, you can control lights, Low Voltage disconnect, control a 20 amp circuit by voltage or amp hours in the bats! remote temp sensor, the works! Most of the things listed here need the IPN pro remote to set the on/off of the options ($200) But is an awesome set up! they have bigger or smaller controllers too! FYI Joe
toobroke2fight 1 year ago
@toobroke2fight thanks those are great indeed, but for me the winner is Rogue MPT-3024, this thing is just so amazing for the price with so many features, such as detailed display. I did extensive research and found out that many experts have reviewed this on different forums and are highly recommending it.
PiercingKnight 1 year ago
@PiercingKnight I like the 30 days of data logging! I have to use a notebook daily b-4 bed ha ha. I just took a peek at it, but ill look more later! I try to log all the data I can and try to improve often! I dont use much power lately, and i usually harvest about 100AH's a day. 1/2 of that is heating water. ( dump load) I have seen 210AH in one day. My system does not track yet, but will soon! redrok to the rescue! 73 TU AR SK ..
toobroke2fight 1 year ago
a better real world test would be to see how long it would take to bring up two equally discharged batteries with identical panels using MPPT vs PWM to race to see which could reach full capacity first. If this is possible.
shartne 1 year ago
@shartne anything can be done. I am 100% sure the MPPT would win!
toobroke2fight 10 months ago
Very informative. Thank you.
Kaos116 1 year ago
@Kaos116 Thanks for your comment.
mjlorton 1 year ago
Excellent video!
My only concern with MPPT is that they do tend to be a bit noisy on RF. If using MPPT units at VHF radio repeater sites for example, they can raise the local noise floor considerably.
sparktastic1 1 year ago
@sparktastic1 Thanks for your comment. You make a very good point, I had thought of using a MPPT charger in my FT-817 Go-Pack but would have been a ptential (noise) issue.
Cheers,
Martin.
mjlorton 1 year ago
nice, makes sense now!
drz4000 1 year ago