Wendell Berry introduced by Bill McKibben

[jackbiggins]

@Gerny

Playing in the dirt like savages in the woods? Is that a mature thing to say, do you think? I could just as well characterise your scientific industrialism as Stalinist collectivisation. You don't seem to understand Berry's position / thought at all. From what you say about him I doubt you've really ever read him.  Nowhere does he say that farming is the preferred lifestyle for everyone.

[FreemanOftheMind]

@jackbiggins Was it Wendell Berry who suggested 15% of the population should farm. Now that's a stark increase from western standards but in the developing world there's more like 85%

[jackbiggins]

@FreemanOftheMind It's also a massive decrease from the supposed suggestion that farming was the preferred lifestyle for everyone.

[FreemanOftheMind]

@jackbiggins No it's not for everyone. But if the whole world was a food forest we wouldn't need any farmers, we'd just eat enroute or wherever we are.

[Gerny73]

Tulipradio, "science" shows clearly... The irony is thick. Science is another example of the triumph of the division of labor and individuals achieving their unique potential. Thoreau and Berry have it wrong. The working out of specialization frees us from the bonds of primitive life towards a life where we can specialize in that which we are best. Capital accumulation helps us transcendent materialism, not playing in the dirt like savages in the woods.

[Johannahlee]

I love the way he uses word, twisting them around to mean different things. "It is not light to see by but only makes the darkness visible." However his story Remembering is making me so sad that it's hard to read a lot at one time

[jnrolf]

I Love the human he is! His nature. His sight!

[BigGerny]

No one can fully develop his powers in any direction without engaging in specialization. The primitive tribesman or peasant, bound to an endless round of different tasks in order to maintain himself, could have no time or resources available to pursue any particular interest to the full. He had no room to specialize, to develop whatever field he was best at or in which he was most interested.

Capitalism and the division of labor allows for neuroscience and cancer research. Agrarianism doesn't.

[frannypants01]

So?

[BigGerny]

So, frannypants01, you wouldn't be able to watch this primitivist on youtube without specilization and capital accumulation. Berry thinks farming is the preferred lifestyle, for everyone. This is naive and costly.

Todd Flanders offers a great critique of this in his paper "Where Distributivism Goes Wrong." Google it, it's pretty good. Murray Rothbard also has an excellent essay on primitivism too.

[malcolmjohnmcneill]

@BigGerny "At this point, I would say point blank what I hope is already clear enough: though agrarianism proposes that everybody has agrarian responsibilities, it does not propose that everybody should be a farmer or that we do not need cities. Nor does it propose that every product should be a necessity. Furthermore, any thinkable human economy would have to grant manufacturing an appropriate and honorable place." Wendell Berry, The Whole Horse, 2002.

[tulipradio]

This is a misinformed opinion.

Science shows clearly that "primitive" humans such as hunter gatherers had far more free time than we do, did more music, art, and ceremony and that the oral tradition develops the mind and cognitive powers, like navigating by the stars, than our technologies. We have not progressed.

[rotcbrad]

industrialism has caused cancer and numbed out minds.

[loraxc]

What an honor it was to watch and listen to Wendell.

And Bill McKibben's GREAT!