http://rtvm.gov.ph - Presentation of Credentials of H.E. Archbishop Msgr.Guiseppe Pinto

[SuperPeterperez]

Pareho kayong mali!!!!

[puzzykant]

Nagsalita ang atheists!!! hahahhahaha. as if you too don't make pakialam. haha. look who's talking. Kulang lang kayo sa pansin that's why...sorry for you...

[howluvlyisurdwelling]

The Vatican is a state at dapat din naman nating igalang yun bilang isang state!

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

OUR NATION IS SUPPOSED TO BE A SECULAR STATE, and I am very disappointed with our government (including previous Administrations) for allowing Religion to influence our government's decision-making.

Roman Catholic Church should stop interfering with our state's affairs and must end its politicking gimmick.

Faith-based laws and policies undermine and threatens the RIGHTS OF EVERYONE!

SUPPORT THE RH BILL NOW!!!

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics A secular state is a baseless state. Mind giving me an explanation of what "human dignity" is supposed to be from a physicalistic perspective? That is, after all, the rational basis for "human rights" and consequently also for "civil rights".

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

"A secular state is a baseless state"

If a secular state is a baseless state, then would you go for a Sharia-based state like the Taliban and Iran?

Or is it OK for you to revert our country to a 16th century era where the Catholic Church's power is at its height, persecuting people through the inquisition?

Obviously, you are the one who really dont know what youre saying is. If you dont want a Secular State, why dont you acknowledge those Priests and Bishops as head of state???

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics To your first question: no. To your 2nd question: I favour the Holy Inquisition, considering it is it that gave us the modern legal system and during its time was the most advanced judicial system in the "old world". History.

And why should a country whose democratic make-up means majority vote not profess the religion of the majority and instead be "secular"? How undemocratic!

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Further, another easy way to show how irrelevant and nonsensical your statement here is that you obviously do not know who H.E. Archbishop Pinto is: the Apostolic Nuncio, i.e. also a DIPLOMAT, to the Philippines. Your comment shows how you simply react against the Church without understanding.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

My comment aroused from diplomatic relation of the PH to the Vatican which led me to speak against the Church's interference to our government.. So Im pretty sure I understand exactly what this video really means..

The concept of "Human Rights" never came from any religion.

Human Rights came from people who argued, from people who reasoned, and from people who thought it out thoroughly.

Religion is the biggest stumbling block against human rights, specially against women's rights.

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics The concept of "human rights": as expounded upon in the original UN draft actually comes from a Catholic.

If you want to rant about being "reasonable", then just answer my questions. What is "human dignity"? Where does it come from?

In your explanation, "Human rights" are nothing but alienable rights arbitrarily granted by some to some. Yet "human rights" are supposedly objective and inalienable. Tut tut.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

"The concept of "human rights": as expounded upon in the original UN draft actually comes from a Catholic."

You cannot just assert things without providing any proof for it. Give me a proof or at least any reliable source confirming just what you said.

Tell me any proof saying any resolution, statement, or any articles made by the United Nations Human Rights Commission (UNHRC) that confirms that the drafting of Human Rights came from Catholic faith.

Can you provide it?

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Actually, let me revise that. It was a "clergyman" (Christian), though I am not particularly certain if it was a Catholic.

Look it up: Archives of the Commission of the Churches on International Affairs, "Human Rights Varia 1945-1968," 428.3.25, World Council of Churches, Geneva, Switzerland.

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Jacques Maritain, a French Catholic and philosopher, was involved in the drafting of the UN resolution on human rights. The flaws he already knew himself.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Yes, My definition of "Human Dignity" is an innate RIGHT to Respect and Ethical Treatment, please check your dictionary.

And, I will answer you, again, for the second time.

Human Rights including Human Dignity came from people who suffered abuses, from people who argued, from people who reasoned, and from people who thought thoroughly --- in simple words, IT CAME FROM OUR MINDS.

If you will not accept my answer, then you are really blinded by your religion.

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Again, you answered nothing. You just parrot what has been defined by some group of people. You demand proof quite often, now I want to see how some people saying something is so makes it actually so? Where is the evidence - from a naturalistic viewpoint - that such thing as "innate rights" actually exist?

"IT CAME FROM OUR MINDS" = it is an arbitrary creation of the human mind = it is not innate and objective, but imputed and contingent. Tut tut.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

"The concept of "human rights": as expounded upon in the original UN draft actually comes from a Catholic."

I was asking for an official, unbiased and reliable source for all your absurd asserted claims.

And you answered me "Human Rights Varia 1945-1968,? 428.3.25, World Council of Churches"

I tried to find it in the web, But cant I find any statement saying anything close to your previously asserted claim that "the original UN draft actually comes from a Catholic".

Cont..

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

"It was a clergyman (Christian)" "Jacques Maritain, a French Catholic and philosopher" "was involved in the drafting of the UN resolution on human rights".

Seriously, I REALLY DONT CARE if these people that you mentioned where Christians, Muslims or Atheists. Quit naming names and their religion because it doesnt prove anything.

What I am after is the proof of your claim that UN Human Rights were really drafted based officially on Catholic faith.

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Funny how you now changed my assertions, eh? I have proven two things: 1) Christian prelates were involved in the drafting of the UN human rights resolutions. 2) Any historian knows Jacques Maritain (a Catholic) who heavily influenced the UN draft.

With that, my claim has already been proven. And if you care to actually read things, you would find out that Mr. Maritain already pointed out the flaws in the UN draft - in terms of epistemology.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Its too obvious that you just made up your assertions without knowing if you can back your claim or not. And you just copy&pasted your answer without reading its content and then throw it all to me then said "Look it Up"??? LOOOL

About my second request for proof for your another absurd claim saying "Holy Inquisition - gave us the modern legal system - most advanced judicial system", Where is it? Where is your proof?

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics This is what makes it difficult arguing with you since you obviously are ignorant. Two books that come to mind rather fast would be: "Kurzgefasste Verteidigung der Heiligen Inquisition" by Hans Conrad Zander, another "Why apologize for the Spanish Inquisition?" (which is considered to be the "bloodiest") by Fr. Duran, M.J., and Fr. Vota, M.J.. A 3rd one would be "The Spanish Inquisition: a historical Revision" by Henry Kamen published by Yale University Press. Your proof?

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Because obviously, not only the Non-Governmental Organizations will disagree with you but the other religions as well.

Human Dignity??? Before I answer your question, can you please clarify just how exactly you define that word?

Human Dignity is a term used in moral, ethical, and political discussions to signify that a being has an innate right to respect and ethical treatment. As far as I am concern I already answered your question from my previous comment.

Cont...

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics History stands on my side when it comes to the Inquisition. lol. I need not the approval of historically ignorant folks.

You cannot respond to a question by asking a question whose answer would be the answer I seek from you in the first place. tut tut.

An innate right to respect and ethical treatment? You obviously simply did what I expected: to make a statement presupposing things without an explanation of origins....tut tut.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

"Holy Inquisition - gave us the modern legal system - most advanced judicial system"

Are you kidding me???

How can an old tribunal system which was based on a non-sense faith, used as an excuse to jail, torture, and murder innocent people by burning them at a stake - including all renaissance scientists and philosophers, accused witches, protestants, etc... simply just by defying the Catholic faith.

Is that how you define the Freedom of Religion???

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Your comment pretty much shows how little you know of the Inquisition. Kinda bad when you have to deal with someone with a major in history and a special interest in such things. Is this the "reason" you godless folks are proud of - ignorant rantings based on popular myths as propagated by the Dutch "reformers"?

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Dude, if you are merely blindly disagreeing with me about my knowledge of Inquisition it doesnt mean that I know very little about the Inquisition.

If you simply disagreed with me it doesnt mean that your "knowledge" about the Inquisition is already correct. You still need to prove me wrong before making another stupid assertions.

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics I am not blindly disagreeing with you: I am disagreeing based on your skewed judgement on the Inquisition which obviously is not yet at the current level of knowledge that the historians of Europe have arrived at.

I need to prove you wrong? Well, I invite you to come to Europe then and to take a short look at all the evidence that shows most "horror stories" about the Inquisition as being fantastical propaganda by the Dutch. Further, there is not 1 but a couple Inquisitions

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics May I also remind you of a simple fact: you rants about the Holy Inquisition are no reasonable ground upon which to oppose the diplomatic ties between the Holy See and the Philippines. Thus far, you just made an unreasonable and irrelevant statement in this video. Yet, you have the audacity to demand "proof" and "reason" from others while you yourself have it not. Tut tt..

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

"I invite you to come to Europe" "that shows most "horror stories" about the Inquisition as being fantastical propaganda by the Dutch"

LOL What an excuse! You know I cant get to Europe thats why you resorted to making invitation to escape my challenge of proof :D

How can you view the Inquisition's "horror stories" a mere "propaganda" if the "Dutch", like you said, provided "all the evidence"?

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Escape your challenge for proof? Apparently, you are being intellectually dishonest for I have provided you with scholarly literature on the issue. And as I do live in Europe, I know of these matters (since I majored in history). What can you tell me? Thus far, you demand proofs, but yourself rely on baseless assumptions.

What "evidence" did the Dutch provide?

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Human Dignity, as I defined it was an "Innate right to respect and ethical treatment".

I said it simply because WE believe(i dont know about you), that from the moment that we were born we already have a Human Dignity, that is what WE believe. Okay?

Isnt that yet clear for you? Dont you have a Human Dignity from the moment that you were born? LOL

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics So once again, you contradict yourself. First you claim it was an innate, i.e. objective, aspect of humanity (which therefore is not contingent upon human will), and now you base this on man's personal opinion - which changes from culture to culture - even from person to person. It strikes me as odd that you cannot wrap your mind around this simple concept.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Now, speaking of Naturalistic point of view (which you demanded explanation), I will introduce you to the Scientific Theory of Evolution.

Evolution clearly says that we Humans(Homo Sapiens) have an INNATE altruistic Social and Political behavior which were developed through our course of evolution.

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics The natural sciences have no normative aspects to them - which would be an ethical question based on metaphysics. Further, these ideas are not the result of evolutionary biology but of biological anthropology that in our days reek of metaphysical assumptions that themselves have not been gained through the scientific method. Tut tut.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Humans started calling and voicing for Humans Rights and even went as far as declaring that most rights are "INNATE" for the main purpose of Self/Group Preservation and Happiness.

Its all because of our Intelligence and other beneficial behavior / characteristics which we inherited from our course of evolution.

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics I repeat: simply saying something is so - regardless of the number of people agreeing - does not make things that way. A simple example: even if all people but one believed the earth was flat, it would not make the earth flat. Savvy?

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

"Kurzgefasste Verteidigung der Heiligen Inquisition by Hans Conrad Zander", "Why apologize for the Spanish Inquisition? by Fr. Duran, M.J., and Fr. Vota"

What the Heck are these?

I am asking you for an OFFICIAL, UNBIASED, and RELIABLE sources for you to prove your claim that the "UN Human Rights were drafted based on Catholic Faith" and your another stupid claim that "Holy Inquisition - gave us the modern legal system - most advanced judicial system".

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Who would be that "official" source? I gave you two other sources. I already expected you to rant against this though because apparently the authors have "Fr." before their names. Want me to teach you what error you made? Look up the term "genetic fallacy". That's what you are doing: disagreeing based on a genetic fallacy. How unreasonable...

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Do you know why I cannot accept your sources???

Its because they are all biased and unreliable, and all the authors of these articles are all Christian priest which left me not to wonder that they only said these things as what they had said it purely because they have the RELIGIOUS MOTIVATION.

They simply said it all to promote their religion. Its very biased and unreliable to me.

Cont..

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

I am very sorry my friend if I have to keep asking you for proof everytime you declare an absurd asserted claims, I have to do it to check the validity of your assertions, I am just after the truth.

In fact, I was so excited if you can provide me all the proof I want, so that we can settle this things now, but the trouble is, youve already spoken a thousand words and not even one of them came anything close to proving your nonsensical claims.

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics You have been provided with all necessary information. But as I expected, you simply dismiss them - like the kid saying "la la la la la, I can't hear you, la la la la la". What is strikingly obvious is that you yourself have shown not an ounce of evidence for the - frankly speaking - outlandish claims of yours.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

I really dont know anymore what is the simplest way for me to explain just for your to grasp the things that I am saying... You are just too slooow to understand.

Human Dignity, as I said previously, is innate according to what people believe. If you dont want to believe it as innate, well then fine. But all Im telling you is that WE(humans) BELIEVE AND CLAIM IT AS INNATE.

Now, JUST FOR ME TO PROVE to you that Human Dignity is really INNATE - google this: wiki/Dignity

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics So because wikipedia says something is innate makes it so? That is then the philosophical basis for your "reasonability" - wikipedia?

Atheists from the Philippines seem to be a very bad copy of European/American atheists. lol

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

"Further, these ideas are not the result of evolutionary biology but of biological anthropology"

Here we are again, talking about something without proper knowledge.

Just like Evolutionary Biology, mainstream Biological Anthropology based their studies primarily on the Theory of Evolution.

Furthermore, these two branches of Science have a common agreement about the Theory of Evolution.

Dude, are you trying to create another issue here using your flawed understanding?

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics The question was human dignity: this is - if claimed as something innate and objectively existent - is not part of any natural science: it is not something that can be empirically tested, observed and proven. Thus why I pointed out that it is not part of evolutionary biology which - according to the proper methodology - is still empirical.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

One more thing, stop drifting away from your ridiculous previous claims which you have, so far, failed to provide proof..

"Holy Inquisition - gave us the modern legal system - most advanced judicial system" --- "the drafting of UN Human Rights is based from Catholic faith"

Where is your UNBIASED and RELIABLE sources confirming such stupid claim?

And have you already found any official statements, articles, or any resolution from the UNHCR?

Cont..

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics I see no point in entertaining your genetic fallacies. If you want to know what that means: crack open a dictinionary.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

"because wikipedia says something is innate makes it so"

Wikipedia says it so and just like what I said, Human Dignity is innate SIMPLY because that is what people believe. You may think of it as "irrational" but there is nothing you can do about it for it is the truth.

Cont...

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Further, I never mention the Human Dignity as an object of study of any natural science, quit making dirty tricks and stop putting words into my mouth.

I only mentioned several branches of natural sciences to emphasize to you the Human Evolution's social and political aspects.

Cont..

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Since from the very start, you have been declaring misleading claims, claims that are very misleading to people.

I gave you plenty of chance to prove your claims but all you did in return is give junks, lies, dishonesty, and now, insults.

Cont..

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Despite the fact that I never questioned your credibility and never attacked your "Major" in History, for I know that it is unwise and unjust for me to downgrade and undermine someone's personality and education, and for the sake of keeping this conversation as healthy as much as possible, and now, you will resort to making personal insults as a desperate way to salvage your losing arguments?

Cont..

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

Once again, you have tried to pull my focus into another issue and ended into failure, I wont allow you to escape me without proving your absurd asserted misleading claims, WHERE IS YOUR PROOF?

"Holy Inquisition - gave us the modern legal system - most advanced judicial system" --- "the drafting of UN Human Rights is based from Catholic faith"

Proof proof proof... WHERE IS IT???

If you cannot prove it. There is nothing to be ashamed of in withdrawing ridiculous statements.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

I told you already, giving me any religious articles, statement, sources motivated by religious advertising, promotion, and propaganda just doesnt prove anything. Because it is deeply biased and therefore very unreliable.

I need you to prove your claims by providing non-religious, non-motivated, educational(i.e. Wikipedia, Govt., UN, etc..) Sources which can make separate confirmation, aside from Religious sources.

Cont..

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont...

"the drafting of UN Human Rights is based from Catholic faith"

"Jacques Maritain, a French Catholic and philosopher, was involved in the drafting of the UN resolution on human rights."

Again, I really dont care if these people that you mentioned were Catholic, Atheist, Muslim, or Satanic.

What I wanted to know is, did these people involved in the drafting of UN Human Rights acted as a Catholic or as a Human Being? And where is your proof for your absurd claims?

[Shlomayo]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics My absurd claims? I gave my claims and gave the clear proof for the claims I made. Are you sure your first "citation" is from me?

Srawman arguments are a clear sign of dishonesty.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@Shlomayo

Cont..

May I, again, remind you also that my very first comment in this video never mentioned about the Inquisition.

I Commented it purely simply out of disgust to the Catholic Church in PH for interfering heavily on governments affair. Which, of course was triggered by the visit of the Vatican ambassador to the Philippines.

My first comment is merely a protest out of my Freedom of Speech and my Right to Self-Expression.

Is that very hard for you to comprehend?

[andrzejnher4eva]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics secularism can be suppresive too.

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@andrzejnher4eva

"secularism can be suppresive too"

Do you know what secularism really means? How do you define that word?

Dude, again.. check your dictionary or Google it...

You really make me laugh... How does the SEPARATION of government and church suppress you?

[andrzejnher4eva]

@AtheistsAreSkeptics Oh and btw, the vatican is a state! and the holy see is a soverign entity. If you call for an end of these political (never heard of politicking in my life) 'gimmicks' why not abolish your whole government as well...

[AtheistsAreSkeptics]

@andrzejnher4eva

Understand well first what I am saying before making any comments, and please, check your dictionary if you havent ever heard of things that I am saying, perhaps you should Google the word "politicking", make yourself aware.

I know that the Vatican is a sovereign state and its normal for them to have "diplomatic" ties with any country, although I am oppose to it...

And I applied the words "politicking gimmicks" to the Catholic Church in PH, and not to Vatican..