Ammonium Perchlorate and aluminium rocket Detonation

[endimion17]

Why don't you change this stupid video title? It's not a rocket fuel. It's an explosive.

A true pipe bomb that could've killed you.

[MrAustralianPyro]

Were do you get ammonium perchlorate in Australia

[RadioTrefoil]

@MrAustralianPyro Customs stops all perchlorates in and out of Australia D:

[iwasapenny]

That is NOT rocket propellant, that is flash powder.

Change the title to: "touch sensitive flash powder pipe bomb" because that's what this is considering most AP formulations have at most 10-20% metal content and ALWAYS have a binder.

Do you have ANY idea how dangerous it is to mix together AP and a metal alone?

You just illustrated the dangers of idiots getting a hold of and fucking around with chemicals they shouldn't have, not the dangers of AP.

[rmoss15]

@iwasapenny Thanks, seeing as though there are no videos on youtube about people doing this I figured I should at least put one up to give others that wanted to try it a heads up, something that I didn't get.

[iwasapenny]

Just a little fyi and how dangerous this is, a couple people have mixed 15-20% Al with AP while making actual propellant, before adding the binder (bad idea!), and the batch ignited. I think one of he guys clothes ignited from the radiant heat alone.

That's less then half the Al here, probably a coarser grade, and mixed carefully by someone experienced.

Oh, and you know whats even better? Dry AP with Al or Mg, has a very nasty habit of self igniting.

Its like KNO3 with metals, but 10X worse.

[rmoss15]

@iwasapenny I'm curious where you got all this information from? Maybe I can learn something from it

[iwasapenny]

Google "EX flyer burned".

With alkali nitrates, Its caused by formation of ammonia and the metal hydroxide. Same thing with AP, but the perchlorate is formed. look up "negative X", same reaction.

The AP blasting agents I once experimented with were cap sensitive and could be set off with a hammer blow. They had at MAX 10% AL

Don't touch AP again until you know what you are doing.

Oh, and PVC wont work with AP, you need metal or phenolic casings.

Expect to invest $200+ to use AP safely.

[dawson01912]

@iwasapenny

With so little documentation of adverse AP/Al reaction, you're talking about a guy who lit himself because he was mixing finest micron stuff.

I don't think you know what exactly what you're talking about.

[iwasapenny]

No, he wasn't. Fine micron aluminum is never used regularly in EX rocketry because it makes little difference in the ISP or burn rate of APCP propellants. The accident was with the run o the mill 325 mesh aluminum powder, and you know damn well that's not even close the the finest micron aluminum powder available.

[dawson01912]

@iwasapenny

I've read directly what the guy who had an accident wrote and he had 6 micron aluminum leftover in a coffee bean grinder. Then he added AP to that and started grinding. Apparently, some of it fell into the motor and got a spark. There was no 325 mesh aluminum involved.

Sure, binder makes it safer, but AP/Al is not an exploding target or a "sensitive mix". Where are you getting your information on that? Have you done testing with it?

[donperry1]

@rmoss15 exactly

[Vaslop2000]

@iwasapenny just to let you know, dry AP and aluminium has no 'self igniting properties' just magnesium, as it forms magnesium perchlorate and ammonia, (along with lots of heat) and only in the presence of minute amounts of water (providing a medium for reaction) this can be prevented with potassium dichromate though

[lilmarine]

@Vaslop2000 you sir get a star! :D

[iwasapenny]

You are right, AP and aluminum will not spontaneously react/ignite like magnesium will.

Still doesn't change the fact that it is an extremely sensitive and and dangerous mixture that has no place in rocketry or anything else.

Though I don't think you were denying that.

I'll say it again to be sure, AP and aluminum is fine, WITH A BINDER. When its a dry mixture it is NOT. The presence of a binder completely changes its properties.

[wow1022]

@iwasapenny

then why does the solid rocket boosters on the space shuttle use

16% aluminum powder

69.8% ammonium perchlorate

[iwasapenny]

It doesn't.

Here, Let me fix that for you:

Space shuttle SRB propellant:

69.8% Ammonium perchlorate.

16% aluminum powder

12% PBAN binder.<-- forgot that, did we?

2% curative.<-- and this.

.2% Fe203<-- oh my, This too?

See that 12% there? Yeah, that's what makes this into rocket propellant, and not an explosive.

[eveningniteshade]

Well that is basically flash powder. Never heard of flash powder rockets.

Prob closed thing to flash powder that works when pressed to make rockets is whistle mix. perchlorate/benzoate.