Damn straight, the case should be reopened! Look up the Cobain Case, people. It's a LONG read, but those who still believe Kurt's death was a suicide, this will change your mind. If I was a PI, I would be looking into this as thoroughly as Tom Grant did. To this day.
i believe kurt cobain was murdered. Either it had to do with the Illuminati or Courtney Love, and i think more people are started to figure out today rather then back then. when the interent and evidence wern't out in the open as it is today.
You guys all keep going on about evidence,but there is none. Only conspiracy and theory. Tom Grants version of events are a possibility,that does not make them true or fact. Most of his quotes and information have no credible sources. There were no finger prints on the trigger,which yes is odd,but that does not automatically mean courtney love had something to do with it. There was no motive for her to kill Kurt. There is no proof he was going to leave her,only rumours.
@simbabrorly actually, no fingerprints on the shotgun is not odd or uncommon at all. Go to my "Fingerprints" video that shows a short clip taken from the Conrad Murray trial.
It's not just the shotgun. There's no legible prints on the shotgun shells and the pen Kurt allegedly used to write the suicide note with. On top of this, 3 people recently handled the gun so it is very odd that no legible prints were found. Somebody loaded the gun and there is no explanation why there were no legible prints found on the shell. Same with the pen, why no legible prints? One possible explanation is that everything was wiped. Kurt was murdered.
@TheStarfkr in a humid room temperature you are unlikely going to find any prints on ANY object with in that room. And again if you researrch the Conrad Murray trial, you would know that most of the item evidence the prosecution used had no prints on them, even though they knew the items had been handled. Your whole fingerprint arguement is completely refutable and would not convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt.
I've not read any documentation on humdity affectiong transfer of prints. Perhaps you can direct me to such? It's not just the prints. It's the greater picture. The sum of the evidence indicates foul play.
@TheStarfkr the justiceforkurt site (which puts forward cases for both murder and suicide) talks about temperatures and perspirations effecting the chances of getting fingerprints. And as was said by the prosecution in the Conrad Murray trial, not getting prints on items that have been handled is not an uncommon thing. If you look at the Ian Curtis suicide, theres a number of things you could pull out of that which *could* indicate fould play also. Can be done with many suicides.
I've had so many thoughts on the suicide (Kurt's) issue. I can believe she did it or knew of it to get his cash. Besides, her band member just overdosed on heroin. She probably shrugged that off too. Oh and her daughter left her. HAH! HAH! Dumb junkie.
WETHER SHE DID IT OR NOT, SOMEONE DID. HIS PRINTS WERE FOUND ON THE BARREL, NOT THE TRIGGER!!!! ARE THE COPS DUMB?!!?!?!?!?!??! I WISH THEY WOULD RE OPEN THE CASE
@floppingnoni umm, first off all i didnt call anyone dumb, i asked. maybe if you would read it again then you would see. second, cases are re-opened all the time after a long time. so it couldl happen; anything is possible. and how do you know for sure wether it was a suicide or not?? WERE YOU THERE CUZ I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK SO. third, there was no reason for you to get rude when i just stated my opinion and put my 2 cents out there. if you didnt like it idc. go comment something rude elsewhere
Excuse me, you said "are the cops dumb?". That's calling people dumb. I just told you that if you don't understand what happened with the fingerprints youre the dumb person here. These people have worked in hundreds of cases, have experience and studies. Are you a forensic expert or just a reader of the theories of the PI who didnt find Kurts body after searching the house several times?
@floppingnoni woww.... you really crack me up. you even quoted my question and then said it wasnt one. bahaha! and you threw my question back at me about being there. ha. well u prolly realize how ignorant you are being so i wont say anything else but have a nice day :) XD seriously cracking up
The Moxley case and the Natalie Wood case were opened after 30 years. Unfortunately cases of murders made to look like suicide, i.e. "suicided", are very common. Check out Vince Foster's death. The facts scream murder but within minutes of the body being found the official word given was suicide. Will Foster's case ever be reopened? Who knows, lot of it depends on public outrage. In his case the FBI switched guns! (black gun in crime photos, silver gun claimed by FBI)
i believed for a while tht kurt did it himself. the pressure of being the spokesman of a generation and the worlds most famous rock star must have gotten to him. i think kurt would have the balls to actually kill himself, i mean any man who has the balls to headbutt a marshall amp has the balls to pull a trigger, however, i am now starting to doubt for some reason that this is the case. i think to put all the cards out on the table, the case should be reopened, to get everyones story clear.
i didnt wanna believe it for the longest time. i love court's music but i spent the better part of the day reading up on it and there is a strong chance she did it.
@hollyccam- Don't feel sad. There are a lot of people who are torn because they think that they have to give up HOLE's music if they believe that Kurt was murdered. The truth is they don't. I can't stand it because I don't think she deserves any more money, but if you have already purchased the CD's you can seek comfort in knowing that Courtney received a lot of help in writing and composing her music. Kurt Cobain helped her with Live Through This and Billy Corgan helped her with Celebrity Skin
And besides, the Rome note's purpose to serve as a known handwriting sample to compare w/ the suicide note was fulfilled by this point. The case was already closed, and the note was forensically determined to have been entirely authored by Kurt Cobain, so the Rome note was no longer evidence in the case, right? The note supposedly said a lot of angry things to her, also, so why should she have kept it? Try putting yourself in her shoes for a moment.
Why not just take a lethal dose? To avoid the possibility of ending up in another self induced coma like he did in Rome a month before. Dave Grohl says he talked to Kurt over the phone after Kurt got back from Rome, & Kurt told him he took the pills and drank the champagne, apologized to him, & said it was "a mistake". Kurt knew what mixing a powerful sedative w/ alcohol would do to his respiratory system, he wasn't an idiot. He called it "a mistake" to ease Dave's concerns.
Dude, you guys can't see that the fact that he was suicidal and had a drug problem that it made it THAT much easier to make it look like a suicide rather than murder. He had 3x the lethal dose of heroin in his body which would make him unable to shoot himself let alone with a shotgun which had NONE of his fingerprints on it. You guys need to think outside the box. And yes this case should be re-opened
@okpumkin- I have been suicidal in the past, but that does not eliminate the possibility of me being murdered, does it? :) It's funny how illogical people can be, huh? I can't think of anyone that dosed themselves up before killing themselves with a shotgun. Why not just take a lethal dose? Because whomever responsible wanted to make sure he did not survive like he did the Rome incident. They needed to make sure that he never regained memory of what happened. Rohypnol is a powerful amnesiac!
@shazzadee plenty of drug related suicides in the past. People have killed themselves in all sorts of horrible ways in the past. If I was going to shoot myself in the head, I would get drunk or/and stoned beforehand.
And also....why would this "killer" use a Shotgun on an unconcious Kurt and risk the noise alerting any potential witnesses who might have been near by? Why not hang him or slash his wrists?
@okpumkin Absolutely, the best way to bump someone off would be to exploit their known weaknesses; in this case heroin and "suicidal tendencies". And I would love to hear the cop say from his own mouth that he told her to destroy such a note.
@okpumkin 3x showed in his system. 2 needle marks in his body...this does not mean all the heroin was injected at once. The second injection could have been hours later after the effects of the first one had worn off. Its alreaady debated that a frequent user could have built up a higher tolerance level to manage 3x in one go....but the fact the injections could have been hours apart makes this "murder" conspiracy theory less believable. It proves nothing.
Nope. This is a common false belief claimed by those who think Kurt killed himsef. The truth is the Heroin has to be administered at once or if it was a second shot then it had to be done shortly after the first one, not later on. The reason being is that the morphine level at autopsey would have been far lower and not as high as it actually was. Kurt was murdered.
@TheStarfkr no its not. It literally depends on the user and how heavy of a user they are. Heroin stays in the system a long time for heavy users. Up to a week. Also can you prove the crime scene investigators wrong when you personally say there were not 2 needle marks? Conspiracy theories are not evidence and would get laughed out of any court.
I didn't say there wasn't 2 needle marks. I said the notion by supporters of the suicide theory that Kurt shot up at different times in order to downplay the autopsey levels of blood morphine is complete nonsense. The level was 3 x the average lethal dose. This means that Kurt died shortly after shooting or being shot up againt his will or else the level would have been lower as it metabolizes.
@TheStarfkr the justiceforkurt site also notes the *reported* 1.52 figure includes both free morphine and conjugated (metabolized) morphine.
"While the Dead Men Don't Pull Triggers essay discusses the total level and the purported lethality of such a high dosage, it doesn't eliminate the possibility of a case such as this and doesn't differentiate between free and metabolized morphine as we don't know those actual figures".
"Regardless of the specific dose of heroin, the 1.52mg/L blood morphine level in Cobain allows for the conclusion to be made that he was immediately incapacitated or dead based on the simple fact that no other instance exists on record indicating otherwise, even remotely."
Supporters of the suicide theory always try to slip past this fact. Have you seen an addict shoot up? Most suicide-supporters have not. They have no idea what it's like.
@TheStarfkr actually when you talk of "fact" its interesting that conspiracy theorists tend to leave out part where the whole 3x lethal dose allegedly found in Cobain comes from no official documentation at all, but from a media newspaper that has not cited its source. This puts it under speculation, not fact.
And where did he get it from...an anonymous informant in the coroner's office who felt it was suspicious. At no time has anyone who actually read the autopsey report ever denied that it was not the 1.52 measure or 3 x the average letha dose. Not one person. All of this could have been settled a long time ago if Courtney would have released the autopsy report as she claimed she was going to. I, and others, believe there is something on that report that she doesn't want known.
@TheStarfkr supposedly from an annyomous informant, this has not been verified, only claimed. Only very few people would have been privy to see that report, and those who did are not allowed by law to publicly comment on it. Whatever was on it, the police did not deem it enough to rule homicide....to which the notion of "cover up" starts to emerge, but if this were true why not go the whole hog and say they did find prints everywhere and other things that would support suicide......
about Courtney and not releasing the report. There are tons and tons of Nirvana fans who blame Courtney for Kirt's death. A lot of it because of Tom Grant's opinions and speculations, for which he as profited and got publicity from. The problem is that even if the report shows a much lesser amount (or even none at all) this does NOT put her in the clear as a potential suspect to conspiracy theorists. I seen people who support the suicide ruling yet still blame it all on Courtney.
In short, if she releases the info.....people like Tom Grant are just going to adjust their theories and make a brand new one to where she is still the "killer" and go make documentaries, books and what not....at her expense. There is nothing Courtney could ever do that will make conspiracy theorists believe she is not responsible. Catch 22.
Nope. Just going off of the history of the case here, Courtney did not want the suicide note publicly released even though she played a tape-recorded message of her reading it to Kurt's fans at the public memorial. Why? Why did she not want it release? -Duh! As soon as Grant tricked her and got a copy of it and released it it was made known that that there were issues with a possible second hand at work. (cont.)
@TheStarfkr I dont think she wanted the WHOLE note released, she read out the parts that seemed like they were addressed specifically to fans, the personal stuff she kept to herself. Understandable. Again, when you examine the suicide of Ian Curtis (former Joy Division frontman) his suicide note was never disclosed to the public either. When Tom Grant tricked her and got that copy....I think it became evident he had his own agenda....
and according to the justiceforkurt site.....Tom Grant has said he has additional info he will not disclose unless the case is re-opened? Why is this? One assumption can be that if the case was re-opened.....the value of that info (which we just know is going to be circumstantial) is going to be pretty high and he will sell it to the highest newspaper bidder. Strike while the iron is hot, so to speak.
Because Courtney has a habit of altering her story to account for new information that comes up. For example, for years there was nothing on why Kurt's car had all 4 tires slashed. Then Courtney gave her "explanation" for Heavier Than Heave, claiming she slashed all the tires on BOTH of Kurt's cars. She claims she did this to keep him at the home for the intervention. (continued)
(cont.) Kurt had 2 cars and years later Courtney gives an "explanation" as to why the tires were slashed. She says she did it to keep him there for the interventions and says she did both cars. Problem is only 1 of Kurt's cars had the tires slashed. The other car was driven to a secret location and had a "4 Sale" sign put on it. Of course I believe this is just b.s. and that Courtney didn't slash any tires and that they were done to keep kurt at the house so he could be killed.
Courtney claimed she didn't want the note released because it contained person information. This is of course not true. She almost the entire letter which was tape-recorded and played for fans at the public memorial. There was nothing personal in the note. In fact, strangly for a "suicide note" both his wife and daugher were just afterthoughts.
@TheStarfkr its no secret that Kurts relationship with Courtney was not all love and happiness, this is made very obvious in one of his final interviews. I would imagine Coutrney would indeed be more of a less important afterthought as far as he was concerned. He did make 2 specific refrences to Frances....which I would consider more personal as it really had nothing to do with his music career. I can understand those parts being left out.
and again there is the whole Tom Grant and his "not yet released info" problem that just says to me he has his own agenda. Or at the very least is totally unreliable. His so called unreleased info would not be solid evidence based on the fact that if he really did have solid proof of a murder that he has not disclosed.....this would be a serious felony on his part that would land him in jail. What ever he has (if anything at all) is purely circumstantial.
and the fact he said he will only release it if the case is re-opened just makes it seem more and more like a hidden agenda, rather than having real justice at the forefront of his intentions. He wants the case to be re-opened so it will become a HOT topic.....and then sell off his unreleased info to the highest media bidder. Cant think of any other reason why he would hold onto such info.
Courtney has a history of changing her story when information surfaces. I already talked about the "4 flat tires" thing below in other comments. If Grant released everything he has then Courtney would simply change her story in order to "explain" it. Grant is holding onto the evidence and keeping it secret so that she isn't able to chane her story. If Grant released everything today there would be no hope left. She would change her story and finally get away with it.
Here's a rehash of an example of Courtney changing her story. In Heavier Than Heaven, Courtney admits that it was she who slashed all 4 tires on BOTH of Kurt's cars. The problem is that only 1 car had it's tires slashed. The other was taken and left at another location. Courtney claims she did it to keep him trapped at the home for the intervention. The slashed tires were noted in the police record. This is clearly...(cont.)
..evidence that Courtney isn't being honest and has changed her tune to "explain" the slashed tires. I do not for one second believe Courtney did it. I believe the tires were slashed to keep Kurt at the home so he could be murdered. Courtney claiming she slashed all 4 tires on BOTH cars is evidence she is not telling the truth and is trying to cover it up. She would likewise "explain" everything if Grant released all of his info.
People are convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time. Usually it's not just one or two pieces of circumstantial evicence that gets someone convicted, but instead a whole trail of it, like with this case. Motive pluse a long trail of circumstantial evidence is plenty to get someone convicted.
@TheStarfkr one thing I really would reject though is that note being a mere "resignation" note. The fact that even if you disregard the last few lines, something is clearly wrong in what being said in the note.....along with what is NOT being said....future plans or ambitions. The note is too self-damning, brings up thinngs that are not relevant for a mere "resignation" letter....and I have never seen another musician write a resignation or temporay break from music letter like that
It was written on an IHOP placemat. I'm pretty sure it was just a rough draft and was not meant as the final copy of the resignation letter to his fans.
Oh, and I forgot to add that even though he didn't list his "future plans" in the note we already know from family and even Courtney that Kurt made plans to go fishing with his grandfather and was going to do a project with Michael Stipe of REM. Courtney even admitted that when he was "missing" that he might be with Stipe in NYC.
Likewise, she promised she would release the autopsy report and make it public but never did and has no plans to do so. Why? -Duh! There's something on it that she doesn't want the public to know just witt the alleged suicide note. Because the moment she releases it untold experts can put pressure on the police to reopen the investigation if there are problems or errors in the findings.
@TheStarfkr there is also the possibility that going by Courtney's past behaviour and statements said in interviews....she kind of likes the whole bad girl "im a gay man trapped in a womans body" and "I punched that ratface" image. She probably relishes at the thought of conspiracy theorists think of her as some mean bad-ass not to be fucked with death rocker who is under suspicion of her husbands death. No such publicity like bad publicity. Plenty of musicians love this image.
Her stories constantly change and they change in order to "explain away" the weird circumstances but her explanations don't make sense. People should take a second looke at the case, about the facts that don't make sense, about how the SPD did no actual investigation, and how Courtney had "friends" in the SPD and the ME who ruled it a suicide. But we need that autopsey report as I'm pretty sure there's a reason why Courtney doesn't want us to see it.
If the investigation was reopened today Courtney would be the #1 suspect as she is the person who directly benefitted from Kurt's death. That's just basic investigation protocols.
There's nothing by law that prevents any individual privy to the information from denying it. They could go as far as saying that they do not bleieve that the 1.52 measure is correct. Just in case you forgot, in public records within minutes of arriving on the scene the police ruled it a suicide. They then backtracked and claimed they treated it like a murder investigation, yet they didn't even test the gun for prints until 30 days after Kurt's death. It's a sham.
@okpumkin He actually wasn't suicidal. You should do a bit more research, and you will see that he was not suicidal. All his friends said that they never saw any indication of Kurt being suicidal and people only started saying that after Courtney claimed that the incident in Rome was Kurt's first 'suicide attempt.'
To everybody viewing this video I suggest you ignore rockinguitarchick121(who just got owned) since she will go on and on trying to persuade people to believe what she wants you to believe and not what YOU chose to believe. If you truly love Kurt let him rest in peace and keep him alive by listening to his wonderful music. Let's all agree to disagree instead of arguing.
You're totally right. I've been arguing with that person on some other video for nearly a week! She's oblivious to the fact that Kurt's always been facinated by suicide, and that this 'evidence' has been shown to the law already and was turned down because it wasn't strong enough. I wish people would just remember him for his music and humility, and not instantly think that he was just some murdered junkie.
@ockinguitarchick121 And one more thing before I go (I do not intend to waste anymore time on a video created especially for people who insist Courtney killed someone who was suicidal and you know this), she was engaged to Edward Norton. Norton is a critically acclaimed actor who was just as rich (if not more) as Kurt. Why the fuck did he not end up dead? And again Kurt would be fucking pissed because you are insulting the woman he loved and chose to marry.
@bruiseviolet05 lmaoooo she was also fucking her new bf billy corgan 3 weeks after kurt died. norton didn't end up dead because she had nothing to gain from that. kurt and courtney had a prenup, so if they divorced she wouldn't get SHIT. ONCE AGAIN, get your facts straight.
@rockinguitarchick121 The Rome incident, she did not even have to call 911 she could have said she was asleep and did not know he was overdosing. A lot of people hated Courtney long before Kurt died and needed someone to blame for his death because everyone is reluctant to accept he took his own life. Courtney is considered a bad person because of the mistakes she has done. Kurt use to fuck up too yet he is considered a tortured saint. You conspiracist always will get asshurt when contradicted.
@bruiseviolet05 she DID say she was asleep. also said she woke up around 3:30 or 4 am and found him unconscious with his nose bleeding. she just chose to not call for help until 6:30 am.... no big deal.you do realize that it's a private investigator and not just some ordinary person that was suspicious of foul play, right? ummm, did kurt ever get sued by his fans for punching them? did kurt even care about money? did kurt lie at every chance he got? it's not a conspiracy when there's evidence.
@rockinguitarchick121 You do realize you are still talking to someone who told you was done here? Omg are you serious?! I think everyone here KNOWS Tom Grant was hired by Courtney lmao. And to be honest I have to agree Tom Grant is more well known now for his investigations of the Kurt Cobain case. You need to do some investigating of your own because Billy Corgan was not her new bf, she dated him before she dated Kurt. Get YOUR facts straight little girl instead of spending all your time here.
@snowbloodqueen actually for your information, courtney admitted to being with billy corgan AFTER kurt died. and actually the last conversation she had with kurt was how billy was going to be making a shit load of money from lollapalooza while kurt was bailing on it. i like how you call me a little girl to make yourself feel superior. that's ok though, i don't stoop to levels like that. i research things before i talk.
@rockinguitarchick121 I never claimed to be superior to you I just call them how I see them. And I bet you do a lot of research, bet it's all you do. To be honest you do not know what was the last conversation she had with Kurt no one but her and Kurt know, and I bet right now you are going to tell me you do know because you research it lmfao.
@snowbloodqueen you're right, i do a lot of research. that's a part of education. and you're also right that only courtney and kurt know what the last conversation was that they had. that's why courtney's the one that admitted it. do you think there's something wrong with research? because if you do then you must be very uneducated. and i am wasting my time trying to enlighten an uneducated person. on that note, i'll leave it to you whether you want to find out the truth or not.
@rockinguitarchick121 There is nothing wrong with research, but constantly obssesing over something that did not even happen is just bad. You are calling me uneducated when you can't even properly spell right? And what truth do you speak of? It seems you are only interested in making people believe your "truth" you even stated in a few comments below that you want to persuade people to believe what you do according to your 'research'. Accept other peoples beliefs and agree to disagree.
@snowbloodqueen i'm obsessed just because i've read about it? wow. and what exactly did i misspell? oh... and it's not spell "right" it's spell "correctly." and it's not MY truth. it's something that many professionals have agreed on. and yes of course i want to persuade people that don't believe it... especially people that "loved" kurt. and you want to accept others beliefs? why don't you do that first since you keep claiming that it never happened. hypocrite. i'm done. goodbye.
Tom Grant is a fucking bastard. Why is he so interested in Kurt's death? Because he is an attention whore. Does he not realize he is hurting the two most important people in Kurt's life? Frances and Courtney. Does he not think that he is pissing Frances Bean off by calling her mother a murderer? Sorry people but this is not the OJ Simpson case; there is no evidence that she killed him. If she wanted him dead she would have let him OD on Rohypnol, but no she didn't she called 911.
@bruiseviolet05- I'm not even going to argue with you. I have been through this a million times with a million different stupid people. Courtney love in an interview said she woke up at 4am and saw that he had OD'd "with blood coming out of his nose", yet she didn't call the paramedics (she didnt call 911 because she was in rome) until 6am. What was she waiting for?For him to die perhaps? Tom is interested in Kurt's death because he thinks he was murdered and he wants justice. Duh!
@shazzadee You are entitled to your opinion and since this is your video (which I stumbled upon out of curiousty) I will not comment on it anymore all I am going to say is that Tom Grant went looking for Kurt at their home in Seattle but failed to look in the greenhouse, a good detective/cop doesn't miss shit like that. He is just exploiting Kurt's death, him and other idiots. And if he was 'murdered' why just suspect Courtney? Why not his friends?
@bruiseviolet05-Because Kurt was intending to get a divorce and his unfortunate demise nullified their prenup which would have otherwise left Courtney with squat.By her own admission, since Kurt's death, his estate has earned her half a billion. That's half a billion she would not have if Kurt survived the extra two weeks to sign his changed will (courtney removed) and serve her with divorce papers. He expressed his intention to leave the day he "OD'd" in rome.
@bruiseviolet05 courtney isn't the only suspect. they questioned the nanny, kurt's best friend, and even members of nirvana and hole. you obviously don't know anything about the circumstances about this case. why don't you do some research before you start bad mouthing people. he's not exploiting anything. do you see this on any tabloids magazine? do you see tom trying to make a profit from this? not many people even know about this. that's why so many people still think kurt took his life.
@bruiseviolet05 how is he hurting them? he's proving to frances that her father loved her and did not leave her... if you read about her recently, she doesn't even talk to courtney anymore because that bitch took money out of her trust fund. and she did want him dead in Rome when that happened because she waited almost 3 hours before actually calling 911... she wanted to make it seem like she was trying to help. read up on your facts before you start talking shit
@rockinguitarchick121 Lmao no, no noooo you're the one talking shit. You and that media whore Tom Grant who has made himself famous off of Kurt's death. Like I said he is hurting both Frances and Courtney because 1. Frances has said that it hurts her when people make up shit about her mother (no matter what Courtney is still her mother) 2. He is hurting Courtney by accusing her of a 'murder' that never happened. And again if she wanted him dead she would have just let him die in Rome.
@bruiseviolet05 actually, i didn't say anything incorrect. you called tom an "attention whore," you're assuming he's hurting frances and courtney, assuming that's pissing off frances, and arguing there's no evidence. seems to me like you're the one talking shit. all of the investigation he's doing on this is coming straight out of his pocket. there's a reason why courtney never denies having a part in kurt's death. and again... she tried to look like a hero in rome. they were her rohypnol pills.
@rockinguitarchick121 Um...NO I will not waste my time looking up websites created by conspiracy idiots for conspiracy idiots. And I am not assuming, it's the truth. Do you honestly think he is not gaining something out of this? You say the name Tom Grant and you automatically know who heis due to Kurt. And I am the one talking shit? Why because refuse to agree with you? If Kurt was still alive he would put all of you talking shit about Courtney in your place. That was his love.
@bruiseviolet05 actually this guy is a renowned investigator THAT COURTNEY HIRED and a former officer. now you're assuming that everyone knows tom grant because of kurt. you don't have anything to back up any of the things you're saying. and you're talking shit... because you're talking shit haha i mean wtf listen to yourself! and yea kurt loved her until he realized she's a psycho. did you know he was about to sign divorce papers right before he died? once again, get your facts straight.
@bruiseviolet05 A lot happened between Rome and his death. When did he try to change his will? She could have later regretted calling 911, and the Rome incident could have inspired her to plan his death as a suicide for all we know. Sure I'm speculating but it's smarter than thinking you know what happened when you don't. So don't think for one minute that Rome somehow proves her innocence in the later tragedy. The guy was murdered by someone, and that is supported by evidence. Cops screwed up.
listen to how she tries to change the subject from burning the note to some loud pop and how weird it was. How can this street hooker get away with this, I really hope some crazy nirvana fan kills her I really do.
I have no idea if Courtney did it. There are so many proofs og homicide but at the same time it's hard to believe that Kurt would be fooled like that by Courtney. He always said she was his best friend and everything. I really don't know what to believe but I do now Courtney didn't love Kurt that much. She said in an interview that Kurt was not the love of her life and she seems pretty crazy too but she was the woman that Kurt chose and I want to respect him. I'm pretty much torn!
If Courtney Love really did kill Kurt Cobain, I hope she fucking get's what she deserves. If she didn't, I hope you all fucking burn in hell for believing it.
At 1:03 does she say "It's in red pen and its on an Ihop(menu), because I went to the Ihop..." what?! why would she be there when he wrote it? who the fuck goes to Ihop and writes a suicide note anyway? "Yeah I'll have blueberry pancakes, an orange juice and a placemat to write a suicide note on", come on.
At 1:03 does she say "It's in red pen and its on an Ihop(menu), because I went to the Ihop..." what?! why would she be there when he wrote it? who the fuck goes to Ihop and writes a suicide note anyway? "Yeah I'll have blueberry pancakes, an orange juice and a placemat to write a suicide note on", come on.
It's cut short because Tom Grant has over 30 hours of recordings and he has only released content that is relevant and does not compromise other evidence collected; reserved for if there is a trial in future...
i believe kurt was depressed..but i hate courtney love for the fact she got pregnant on the sly. kurt didnt want her until frances bean was conceived. i love frances, but i think kurt would be here if he had never married her. he should have been awarded full custody and be done with it. i think he and frances would have been happier that way
Due to the fact that he was facing a divorce, he was extremely stressed, but depressed he was not. He had been depressed in the past, even suicidal; not at the time of his death. As Tom once said "He was leaving seattle, leaving courtney, not leaving the planet!". I hate courtney love because I believe that she is a murderer and no other reason. But I do not understand how anyone could think she was talented...
KURT DIDN'T OFF HIMSELF, JERKOFFS! All of the evidence points to Courtney Love and Cali DeWitt, either\or. There is not enough about that Det. Cameron to place him in the time line leading to Cobain's death. If the cheap ass government wont look into the facts a little closer, then they are pathetic excuses for justice and protection. Pathetic like Courtney.
I think the evidence implicating Courtney Love is too overwhelming for them not to re-open the Cobain case. There's a blaringly obvious motive for Love to kill Cobain. Furthermore, there's the questionable death of Eldon Hoke; the man who claimed that Courtney Love hired him to kill Kurt Cobain. I'm suprised that Courtney herself does not want the case re-opened. If she has nothing to hide, why not put all the implications to bed by taking a second and more thorough look at Cobain's "suicide"?
@Seosav the problem is that the evidence they have isn't like concrete, ya know? like it's not scientifically linking courtney or anyone for that matter, to kurt's death. i feel the same way you do. i wish they would reopen the case with what they have but i'm afraid it won't get them too far.
@rockinguitarchick121 I agree...I doubt this case will ever be reopened. The Rome Note: burned. The greenhouse Kurt died in: leveled. The shotgun he shot himself with: destroyed. All that remains are his unreleased autopsy reports, and the undeveloped crime scene photos. The "evidence" for murder is largely circumstantial, and/or relies on inconclusive/conflicting forensic opinions over the small amount of evidence that was actually released to the public.
@TestMeatDollSteak honestly, i think that if enough people voice out their opinions, we can really help Tom to reopen it. I mean the only thing holding this back is the Seattle Police Department... but if we can just somehow overrule them... that would be it. and really, there have been a lot of trials where people get convicted solely on circumstantial evidence. you don't necessarily have to have a blood smear or a fingerprint to convict someone. Tom has enough here to convict courtney AND cali
@rockinguitarchick121 No, no..I've read cobaincase and justiceforkurt and Roger Lewis's essay. I know all about the "evidence" in favor of Kurt's murder, and it's really all just circumstantial and inconclusive. There is absolutely ZERO evidence placing ANYONE other than Kurt Cobain in the greenhouse that day...no signs of a struggle, no signs of forced entry, and nothing but conjecture ties any of the circumstantial "evidence" together. Kurt Cobain committed suicide. Everyone needs to accept it
@TestMeatDollSteak I agree with you. And if Tom Grant was such a good investigator why did he fail to check the greenhouse? Everyone here knows about those stupid conspiracy websites and there is no real evidence and throughout the years they have come up with nothing new to prove he was murdered.
@snowbloodqueen Word... it's interesting to me that the majority of people who swallow all of the hype surrounding Cobain's death were either not even born, or were still shitting their diapers when Kurt and Nirvana were actually playing music together. Oh, youthful naivete...
@TestMeatDollSteak you seem like a level headed person, so i won't bother trying to persuade you like i have before with other people that don't seem to know what they're talking about. although i disagree with you, i do agree with you to a certain extent about the evidence. but i really disagree about everyone needing to accept it. there is also no forensic evidence of a suicide either. we, ordinary people, don't know what really happened. i don't like settling just because of popular belief.
@rockinguitarchick121 I appreciate your calm demeanor. I did not respond to your post in an insulting manner, so again, I appreciate the reciprocity. As a long time Nirvana fan, I have read quite a bit about Cobain's death, life, and music. Like you, I am a skeptical person. You stated that there wasn't any sound forensic evidence of suicide. I have read interviews with Hartshorne that state the contrary. Are you familiar with instantaneous rigor/cataleptic rigidty?
@rockinguitarchick121 Then you're aware that Hartshorne says he diagnosed the phenomenon in Cobain's hand around the barrel of the gun? And you're aware that in order for the phenomenon to have occurred, Cobain would had to have been consciously squeezing the shotgun barrel at the exact moment the shotgun blast killed him?
@TestMeatDollSteak not necessarily. he was dead for 3 days before they found him. his body was showing signs of rigor mortis which is why the officer had to pry the gun out of his hand. that's how they figured that he had been dead for a while... because of the rigor mortis. all rigor mortis is, is a chemical change in the body that occurs with death, it causes the body to become stiff. that's all. it definitely wasn't a phenomenon lol as long as someone placed his hand there, it would happen.
@TestMeatDollSteak and there is a lot more evidence that you might be aware of. if you go to cobaincase. com or justiceforkurt. com, there is A LOT of evidence. even medical autopsy reports that show kurt had waaaaay too much heroin in his system to even be able to shoot himself. they said it was almost impossibly. of course there is that 0.0001%, ya know? but in reality, there has not been ONE case that they could find that was similar to this in terms of that level of heroin.
shazzadee you are fueling hatred and conspiracies. if you loved kurt and nirvana so much, make a memorial web site. by replaying these, you're fueling negativity towards a woman who clearly has enough bad publicity for several lifetimes. no one knows what happened, and i for one am not convinced by tom grant's files (i've spent many hours reading through his web site). I could never love a murderer, and i feel in my heart of hearts that courtney has nothing to hide.
I feel that you want the "answers" that you want. Not necessarily the ones that are real.
This proves nothing. The officer most likely was giving advice to a known heroin addict with a daughter to think about. "Burn it" would be the best advice. For one...Frances would never run into it at a later date causing more grief in their lives and two.) Courtney wouldn't obsess about it and get some closure. I think this shit is as callous as you can get towards another human being.
I don't think you know what you are talking about. A police officer cannot condone the destruction of evidence. It identified that he was not suicidal and that his intention was to get a divorce. He advised her to destroy it because it was incriminating. There are other recordings that I have posted that are simply clips from 30 hours worth of evidence. I know the person who recorded them. He has some clips on his site.
I think you are purposely taking the "note" out of context. The note fails to be evidence after an investigation....especially when a police officer is court ordered to return the property to it's rightful owner. I read the note verbatim. Not only is it common for Heroin addicts to write at great lengths on a binge....it is also highly common that from hour to hour their handwriting changes. He didn't advise her to destroy the note because of incrimination...he was offering closure.
@Sn4pDr4gon I see that you posted this quite some time ago, but I'd still like to say that I agree with your assessment of Cameron's suggesting to Courtney to get rid of the Rome Note. Cobain's death had already been ruled a suicide, with no suggestion to the SPD of foul play, and the Rome Note's purpose for serving as a known handwriting sample of Cobain's to compare against the Suicide Note had been served. From even Love's own accounts, the note said hurtful things to her. He offered closure.
The detective was most likely REQUIRED to return the note; telling her to burn it would have most likely just been personal, not professional, advice.
herby190: are you implying the police were sympathetic thowards Courtney? That in itself is unprofessional. And telling her to burn evidence is really unprofessional, in fact it points to corruption.
Courtney Love hired Tom Grant to interfere with Kurt's personal life. He was leaving her for good and leaving Seattle. You need to educate yourself. He did not kill himself. Did you not listen to this video? She admits motive! She also admits that the Rome note WAS NOT A SUICIDE NOTE, which is different from what she told the press.
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Yeah, if your husband committed suicide and the press and public won't leave you the fuck alone, of course you're going to say something wrong eventually. And why would she not destroy the evidence? Maybe she doesn't want to looka t it anymore? Maybe she doesn't want a fucking reminder? Think of her as a human, and then maybe things will make sense.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
This people like Tom Grant are full of shit, I'm sure he committed suicide and he did because of people like Tom Grant trying to get in his and Courtney's private life. Courtney probably loved him more than this mental retarded detective and fifteen year old misoginist Nirvana's fans. Probably Dave Grohl tried to kill him but he didn't get the money hahaha
@laperallimonera ur sure courtney loved him more than anyone else? are you kidding me?! thats why she was cheating on him right? lol their marriage was failing..that we do know. And maybe there was infedelity on both sides. We just dont know....but the FACT is they were going to get divorced, so i highly doubt she loved him that much..in fact, i dont think SHE ever did to begin with. i think she used him for money and fame.
I think prison would be a much better punishment. That way she would have the rest of her life to dwell on the fact that it was all for nothing. Frances turns eighteen next year and Courtney blew her trust fund, so I have a feeling maybe he will get justice soon. When Frances wakes up to what her mother is really like. Have you heard of Project Unplugged? It is on tomgrantpi's youtube channel. :)
Well as indicated in other recordings that I have added, she admits that he was leaving her and they were getting a divorce. They had a prenup in place and the prenup was obviously voided when he died. He was also in the process of writing her out of his will. Money is the motive here.
Agreed. Have you watched all the videos? This is just a taste of 30 hours of conversation that Tom Grant recorded during the eight months that he dealt with her. I'm guessing that you have subscribed to tomgrantpi's channel? :) If not, you really should. Tom is releasing a self funded documentary segment by segment on youtube called Project unplugged :)
Actually no it was not. That was the opinion of Krist Novoselic because of the raise and drop in tides. And there was a smaller bridge in aberdeen that homeless people DO sleep under, it just was not the one he named. That could be an honest mistake. I misname places and locations all the time. You obviously are the one that knows nothing about him. But no, he is not my "idol". And obviously you make comments for the sake of arguements without actually watching or listening to the videos!
I couldn't agree more with the last 2 comments...also, let us not forget that even the guys out there who made tapes about "conspiracy theories" like you're doing have said that Kurt tried to call Courtney because he thought she didn't love him anymore. Hello?
He was a drug addict and he is also known for being a bit of an attention seeker. After all, it is proven that he didn't live under a bridge, is it not?
Don't be saying shit about how her comments about him were sarcastic. She used sacrasm during his funeral when reading his suicide note. Both Courtney and Kurt were on drugs at that time and they both had the sarcastic humor. It was her personality to use anger and sarcasm as defence instead of complete sadness. The Rome suicide attempt just proves that Kurt wanted to die. Why would Courtney need to distroy it anyway? It basically said that Kurt thought she didnt love him anymore.
what is this of course she destroyed the suicide note from rome, he survived why would you keep something as niaistic as a failed suicide attempt note. I can totally understand why courtney would do that, plus all of kurts stuff (including the successful suicide note) is in a safety deposit box a. because it's as valueable as goldust, finacially, iconically, and sentimentally. b. because when someone loses someone, it's painful to have all their stuff around the house.
She destroyed it after his death. Did you not listen to the recording at all? Courtney claims it was a suicide note "but he says he's leaving me". I think Kurt would know the meaning of his own note. Watch all of the videos.
Damn straight, the case should be reopened! Look up the Cobain Case, people. It's a LONG read, but those who still believe Kurt's death was a suicide, this will change your mind. If I was a PI, I would be looking into this as thoroughly as Tom Grant did. To this day.
AlanzaDemonica 3 weeks ago
... damn she really shouldn't of said she "burnt" it. That just makes it sound like she was hiding something.
redstripe19 1 month ago
i believe kurt cobain was murdered. Either it had to do with the Illuminati or Courtney Love, and i think more people are started to figure out today rather then back then. when the interent and evidence wern't out in the open as it is today.
maralerner5 1 month ago
learn to spell conversation and maybe i'll take you seriously
melfaery 2 months ago
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@simbabrorly
actually, there is evidence: he was fileing for divorce, and he wrote about divorcing her in You Know You're Right,
if you want, I could go on about this for hours, but I don't want to.
JetFireROCKS1 5 months ago
You guys all keep going on about evidence,but there is none. Only conspiracy and theory. Tom Grants version of events are a possibility,that does not make them true or fact. Most of his quotes and information have no credible sources. There were no finger prints on the trigger,which yes is odd,but that does not automatically mean courtney love had something to do with it. There was no motive for her to kill Kurt. There is no proof he was going to leave her,only rumours.
simbabrorly 5 months ago
@simbabrorly
actually, there is evidence: he was fileing for divorce, and he wrote about divorcing her in You Know You're Right,
if you want, I could go on about this for hours, but I don't want to.
JetFireROCKS1 5 months ago 3
@simbabrorly
actually, there is evidence: he was fileing for divorce, and he wrote about divorcing her in You Know You're Right,
if you want, I could go on about this for hours, but I don't want to.
JetFireROCKS1 5 months ago
@JetFireROCKS1 She even mentions getting divorced in one of her phone calls with Grant.
MrStonesword 3 months ago
@simbabrorly actually, no fingerprints on the shotgun is not odd or uncommon at all. Go to my "Fingerprints" video that shows a short clip taken from the Conrad Murray trial.
donniegerrard 2 months ago
@donniegerrard
It's not just the shotgun. There's no legible prints on the shotgun shells and the pen Kurt allegedly used to write the suicide note with. On top of this, 3 people recently handled the gun so it is very odd that no legible prints were found. Somebody loaded the gun and there is no explanation why there were no legible prints found on the shell. Same with the pen, why no legible prints? One possible explanation is that everything was wiped. Kurt was murdered.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr in a humid room temperature you are unlikely going to find any prints on ANY object with in that room. And again if you researrch the Conrad Murray trial, you would know that most of the item evidence the prosecution used had no prints on them, even though they knew the items had been handled. Your whole fingerprint arguement is completely refutable and would not convince a jury beyond reasonable doubt.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
I've not read any documentation on humdity affectiong transfer of prints. Perhaps you can direct me to such? It's not just the prints. It's the greater picture. The sum of the evidence indicates foul play.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr the justiceforkurt site (which puts forward cases for both murder and suicide) talks about temperatures and perspirations effecting the chances of getting fingerprints. And as was said by the prosecution in the Conrad Murray trial, not getting prints on items that have been handled is not an uncommon thing. If you look at the Ian Curtis suicide, theres a number of things you could pull out of that which *could* indicate fould play also. Can be done with many suicides.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
I just googled it and discovered that most of the material says that high temps and LOW humidity can effect or prevent prints.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
Good.. God.
xxGreenDayMusexx 5 months ago
Somebody skipped school the day rethoric questions and irony were explained.
And Grant also skipped class the day it was teached expensive houses have a backyard and a garage.
floppingnoni 5 months ago
I've had so many thoughts on the suicide (Kurt's) issue. I can believe she did it or knew of it to get his cash. Besides, her band member just overdosed on heroin. She probably shrugged that off too. Oh and her daughter left her. HAH! HAH! Dumb junkie.
roxannejane101 6 months ago
WETHER SHE DID IT OR NOT, SOMEONE DID. HIS PRINTS WERE FOUND ON THE BARREL, NOT THE TRIGGER!!!! ARE THE COPS DUMB?!!?!?!?!?!??! I WISH THEY WOULD RE OPEN THE CASE
kilynn13 6 months ago 3
@kilynn13
If you can't understand the fingerprints issue don't call people who actually do dumb. Thank you.
Oh, and the case has been closed for 17 years. There's a reason... it was suicide.
floppingnoni 5 months ago
@floppingnoni umm, first off all i didnt call anyone dumb, i asked. maybe if you would read it again then you would see. second, cases are re-opened all the time after a long time. so it couldl happen; anything is possible. and how do you know for sure wether it was a suicide or not?? WERE YOU THERE CUZ I SERIOUSLY DONT THINK SO. third, there was no reason for you to get rude when i just stated my opinion and put my 2 cents out there. if you didnt like it idc. go comment something rude elsewhere
kilynn13 5 months ago
@kilynn13
Excuse me, you said "are the cops dumb?". That's calling people dumb. I just told you that if you don't understand what happened with the fingerprints youre the dumb person here. These people have worked in hundreds of cases, have experience and studies. Are you a forensic expert or just a reader of the theories of the PI who didnt find Kurts body after searching the house several times?
floppingnoni 5 months ago
@floppingnoni woww.... you really crack me up. you even quoted my question and then said it wasnt one. bahaha! and you threw my question back at me about being there. ha. well u prolly realize how ignorant you are being so i wont say anything else but have a nice day :) XD seriously cracking up
kilynn13 5 months ago
@floppingnoni
The Moxley case and the Natalie Wood case were opened after 30 years. Unfortunately cases of murders made to look like suicide, i.e. "suicided", are very common. Check out Vince Foster's death. The facts scream murder but within minutes of the body being found the official word given was suicide. Will Foster's case ever be reopened? Who knows, lot of it depends on public outrage. In his case the FBI switched guns! (black gun in crime photos, silver gun claimed by FBI)
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
Re-open this case and put that slutty crack whore holocaust looking bitch in shackles.
RadOne83 7 months ago
i believed for a while tht kurt did it himself. the pressure of being the spokesman of a generation and the worlds most famous rock star must have gotten to him. i think kurt would have the balls to actually kill himself, i mean any man who has the balls to headbutt a marshall amp has the balls to pull a trigger, however, i am now starting to doubt for some reason that this is the case. i think to put all the cards out on the table, the case should be reopened, to get everyones story clear.
lewismulholland 7 months ago
i didnt wanna believe it for the longest time. i love court's music but i spent the better part of the day reading up on it and there is a strong chance she did it.
if you dont believe you should do the same
hollyccam 8 months ago 6
@hollyccam- Don't feel sad. There are a lot of people who are torn because they think that they have to give up HOLE's music if they believe that Kurt was murdered. The truth is they don't. I can't stand it because I don't think she deserves any more money, but if you have already purchased the CD's you can seek comfort in knowing that Courtney received a lot of help in writing and composing her music. Kurt Cobain helped her with Live Through This and Billy Corgan helped her with Celebrity Skin
shazzadee 8 months ago 2
@shazzadee thanks! i havent really thought of that
hollyccam 8 months ago
@shazzadee That's why Live through this is so much better. You can hear Cobain's influence in that.
scumgod13 8 months ago
And besides, the Rome note's purpose to serve as a known handwriting sample to compare w/ the suicide note was fulfilled by this point. The case was already closed, and the note was forensically determined to have been entirely authored by Kurt Cobain, so the Rome note was no longer evidence in the case, right? The note supposedly said a lot of angry things to her, also, so why should she have kept it? Try putting yourself in her shoes for a moment.
TestMeatDollSteak 9 months ago
Why not just take a lethal dose? To avoid the possibility of ending up in another self induced coma like he did in Rome a month before. Dave Grohl says he talked to Kurt over the phone after Kurt got back from Rome, & Kurt told him he took the pills and drank the champagne, apologized to him, & said it was "a mistake". Kurt knew what mixing a powerful sedative w/ alcohol would do to his respiratory system, he wasn't an idiot. He called it "a mistake" to ease Dave's concerns.
/watch?v=hwYqYTNHsnk
TestMeatDollSteak 9 months ago
Dude, you guys can't see that the fact that he was suicidal and had a drug problem that it made it THAT much easier to make it look like a suicide rather than murder. He had 3x the lethal dose of heroin in his body which would make him unable to shoot himself let alone with a shotgun which had NONE of his fingerprints on it. You guys need to think outside the box. And yes this case should be re-opened
okpumkin 9 months ago 19
@okpumkin- I have been suicidal in the past, but that does not eliminate the possibility of me being murdered, does it? :) It's funny how illogical people can be, huh? I can't think of anyone that dosed themselves up before killing themselves with a shotgun. Why not just take a lethal dose? Because whomever responsible wanted to make sure he did not survive like he did the Rome incident. They needed to make sure that he never regained memory of what happened. Rohypnol is a powerful amnesiac!
shazzadee 9 months ago 6
@shazzadee How did you deal with it ?
help me deal with it
mrguycrap 6 months ago
@shazzadee plenty of drug related suicides in the past. People have killed themselves in all sorts of horrible ways in the past. If I was going to shoot myself in the head, I would get drunk or/and stoned beforehand.
And also....why would this "killer" use a Shotgun on an unconcious Kurt and risk the noise alerting any potential witnesses who might have been near by? Why not hang him or slash his wrists?
donniegerrard 2 months ago
@okpumkin I don't know why my comment was directed at you, it was supposed to be directed at bruiseviolet05. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
shazzadee 8 months ago
@okpumkin they had re opened it and found that the drug addict cobain did kill himself because he is a selfish coward
420GuitarShredder 4 months ago
@okpumkin Absolutely, the best way to bump someone off would be to exploit their known weaknesses; in this case heroin and "suicidal tendencies". And I would love to hear the cop say from his own mouth that he told her to destroy such a note.
MrStonesword 3 months ago
@okpumkin 3x showed in his system. 2 needle marks in his body...this does not mean all the heroin was injected at once. The second injection could have been hours later after the effects of the first one had worn off. Its alreaady debated that a frequent user could have built up a higher tolerance level to manage 3x in one go....but the fact the injections could have been hours apart makes this "murder" conspiracy theory less believable. It proves nothing.
donniegerrard 2 months ago
@donniegerrard
Nope. This is a common false belief claimed by those who think Kurt killed himsef. The truth is the Heroin has to be administered at once or if it was a second shot then it had to be done shortly after the first one, not later on. The reason being is that the morphine level at autopsey would have been far lower and not as high as it actually was. Kurt was murdered.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr no its not. It literally depends on the user and how heavy of a user they are. Heroin stays in the system a long time for heavy users. Up to a week. Also can you prove the crime scene investigators wrong when you personally say there were not 2 needle marks? Conspiracy theories are not evidence and would get laughed out of any court.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
I didn't say there wasn't 2 needle marks. I said the notion by supporters of the suicide theory that Kurt shot up at different times in order to downplay the autopsey levels of blood morphine is complete nonsense. The level was 3 x the average lethal dose. This means that Kurt died shortly after shooting or being shot up againt his will or else the level would have been lower as it metabolizes.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr the justiceforkurt site also notes the *reported* 1.52 figure includes both free morphine and conjugated (metabolized) morphine.
"While the Dead Men Don't Pull Triggers essay discusses the total level and the purported lethality of such a high dosage, it doesn't eliminate the possibility of a case such as this and doesn't differentiate between free and metabolized morphine as we don't know those actual figures".
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
"Regardless of the specific dose of heroin, the 1.52mg/L blood morphine level in Cobain allows for the conclusion to be made that he was immediately incapacitated or dead based on the simple fact that no other instance exists on record indicating otherwise, even remotely."
Supporters of the suicide theory always try to slip past this fact. Have you seen an addict shoot up? Most suicide-supporters have not. They have no idea what it's like.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr actually when you talk of "fact" its interesting that conspiracy theorists tend to leave out part where the whole 3x lethal dose allegedly found in Cobain comes from no official documentation at all, but from a media newspaper that has not cited its source. This puts it under speculation, not fact.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
And where did he get it from...an anonymous informant in the coroner's office who felt it was suspicious. At no time has anyone who actually read the autopsey report ever denied that it was not the 1.52 measure or 3 x the average letha dose. Not one person. All of this could have been settled a long time ago if Courtney would have released the autopsy report as she claimed she was going to. I, and others, believe there is something on that report that she doesn't want known.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr supposedly from an annyomous informant, this has not been verified, only claimed. Only very few people would have been privy to see that report, and those who did are not allowed by law to publicly comment on it. Whatever was on it, the police did not deem it enough to rule homicide....to which the notion of "cover up" starts to emerge, but if this were true why not go the whole hog and say they did find prints everywhere and other things that would support suicide......
donniegerrard 1 month ago
about Courtney and not releasing the report. There are tons and tons of Nirvana fans who blame Courtney for Kirt's death. A lot of it because of Tom Grant's opinions and speculations, for which he as profited and got publicity from. The problem is that even if the report shows a much lesser amount (or even none at all) this does NOT put her in the clear as a potential suspect to conspiracy theorists. I seen people who support the suicide ruling yet still blame it all on Courtney.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
In short, if she releases the info.....people like Tom Grant are just going to adjust their theories and make a brand new one to where she is still the "killer" and go make documentaries, books and what not....at her expense. There is nothing Courtney could ever do that will make conspiracy theorists believe she is not responsible. Catch 22.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
Nope. Just going off of the history of the case here, Courtney did not want the suicide note publicly released even though she played a tape-recorded message of her reading it to Kurt's fans at the public memorial. Why? Why did she not want it release? -Duh! As soon as Grant tricked her and got a copy of it and released it it was made known that that there were issues with a possible second hand at work. (cont.)
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr I dont think she wanted the WHOLE note released, she read out the parts that seemed like they were addressed specifically to fans, the personal stuff she kept to herself. Understandable. Again, when you examine the suicide of Ian Curtis (former Joy Division frontman) his suicide note was never disclosed to the public either. When Tom Grant tricked her and got that copy....I think it became evident he had his own agenda....
donniegerrard 1 month ago
and according to the justiceforkurt site.....Tom Grant has said he has additional info he will not disclose unless the case is re-opened? Why is this? One assumption can be that if the case was re-opened.....the value of that info (which we just know is going to be circumstantial) is going to be pretty high and he will sell it to the highest newspaper bidder. Strike while the iron is hot, so to speak.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
Because Courtney has a habit of altering her story to account for new information that comes up. For example, for years there was nothing on why Kurt's car had all 4 tires slashed. Then Courtney gave her "explanation" for Heavier Than Heave, claiming she slashed all the tires on BOTH of Kurt's cars. She claims she did this to keep him at the home for the intervention. (continued)
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
(cont.) Kurt had 2 cars and years later Courtney gives an "explanation" as to why the tires were slashed. She says she did it to keep him there for the interventions and says she did both cars. Problem is only 1 of Kurt's cars had the tires slashed. The other car was driven to a secret location and had a "4 Sale" sign put on it. Of course I believe this is just b.s. and that Courtney didn't slash any tires and that they were done to keep kurt at the house so he could be killed.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
Courtney claimed she didn't want the note released because it contained person information. This is of course not true. She almost the entire letter which was tape-recorded and played for fans at the public memorial. There was nothing personal in the note. In fact, strangly for a "suicide note" both his wife and daugher were just afterthoughts.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr its no secret that Kurts relationship with Courtney was not all love and happiness, this is made very obvious in one of his final interviews. I would imagine Coutrney would indeed be more of a less important afterthought as far as he was concerned. He did make 2 specific refrences to Frances....which I would consider more personal as it really had nothing to do with his music career. I can understand those parts being left out.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
and again there is the whole Tom Grant and his "not yet released info" problem that just says to me he has his own agenda. Or at the very least is totally unreliable. His so called unreleased info would not be solid evidence based on the fact that if he really did have solid proof of a murder that he has not disclosed.....this would be a serious felony on his part that would land him in jail. What ever he has (if anything at all) is purely circumstantial.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
and the fact he said he will only release it if the case is re-opened just makes it seem more and more like a hidden agenda, rather than having real justice at the forefront of his intentions. He wants the case to be re-opened so it will become a HOT topic.....and then sell off his unreleased info to the highest media bidder. Cant think of any other reason why he would hold onto such info.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
Courtney has a history of changing her story when information surfaces. I already talked about the "4 flat tires" thing below in other comments. If Grant released everything he has then Courtney would simply change her story in order to "explain" it. Grant is holding onto the evidence and keeping it secret so that she isn't able to chane her story. If Grant released everything today there would be no hope left. She would change her story and finally get away with it.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
Here's a rehash of an example of Courtney changing her story. In Heavier Than Heaven, Courtney admits that it was she who slashed all 4 tires on BOTH of Kurt's cars. The problem is that only 1 car had it's tires slashed. The other was taken and left at another location. Courtney claims she did it to keep him trapped at the home for the intervention. The slashed tires were noted in the police record. This is clearly...(cont.)
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
(cont.)
..evidence that Courtney isn't being honest and has changed her tune to "explain" the slashed tires. I do not for one second believe Courtney did it. I believe the tires were slashed to keep Kurt at the home so he could be murdered. Courtney claiming she slashed all 4 tires on BOTH cars is evidence she is not telling the truth and is trying to cover it up. She would likewise "explain" everything if Grant released all of his info.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
People are convicted on circumstantial evidence all the time. Usually it's not just one or two pieces of circumstantial evicence that gets someone convicted, but instead a whole trail of it, like with this case. Motive pluse a long trail of circumstantial evidence is plenty to get someone convicted.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr one thing I really would reject though is that note being a mere "resignation" note. The fact that even if you disregard the last few lines, something is clearly wrong in what being said in the note.....along with what is NOT being said....future plans or ambitions. The note is too self-damning, brings up thinngs that are not relevant for a mere "resignation" letter....and I have never seen another musician write a resignation or temporay break from music letter like that
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
It was written on an IHOP placemat. I'm pretty sure it was just a rough draft and was not meant as the final copy of the resignation letter to his fans.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
Oh, and I forgot to add that even though he didn't list his "future plans" in the note we already know from family and even Courtney that Kurt made plans to go fishing with his grandfather and was going to do a project with Michael Stipe of REM. Courtney even admitted that when he was "missing" that he might be with Stipe in NYC.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
(cont.)
Likewise, she promised she would release the autopsy report and make it public but never did and has no plans to do so. Why? -Duh! There's something on it that she doesn't want the public to know just witt the alleged suicide note. Because the moment she releases it untold experts can put pressure on the police to reopen the investigation if there are problems or errors in the findings.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@TheStarfkr there is also the possibility that going by Courtney's past behaviour and statements said in interviews....she kind of likes the whole bad girl "im a gay man trapped in a womans body" and "I punched that ratface" image. She probably relishes at the thought of conspiracy theorists think of her as some mean bad-ass not to be fucked with death rocker who is under suspicion of her husbands death. No such publicity like bad publicity. Plenty of musicians love this image.
donniegerrard 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
Her stories constantly change and they change in order to "explain away" the weird circumstances but her explanations don't make sense. People should take a second looke at the case, about the facts that don't make sense, about how the SPD did no actual investigation, and how Courtney had "friends" in the SPD and the ME who ruled it a suicide. But we need that autopsey report as I'm pretty sure there's a reason why Courtney doesn't want us to see it.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
If the investigation was reopened today Courtney would be the #1 suspect as she is the person who directly benefitted from Kurt's death. That's just basic investigation protocols.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@donniegerrard
There's nothing by law that prevents any individual privy to the information from denying it. They could go as far as saying that they do not bleieve that the 1.52 measure is correct. Just in case you forgot, in public records within minutes of arriving on the scene the police ruled it a suicide. They then backtracked and claimed they treated it like a murder investigation, yet they didn't even test the gun for prints until 30 days after Kurt's death. It's a sham.
TheStarfkr 1 month ago
@okpumkin He actually wasn't suicidal. You should do a bit more research, and you will see that he was not suicidal. All his friends said that they never saw any indication of Kurt being suicidal and people only started saying that after Courtney claimed that the incident in Rome was Kurt's first 'suicide attempt.'
bladesofglory12 1 month ago
BULLSHİT!
neonangels123 9 months ago
To everybody viewing this video I suggest you ignore rockinguitarchick121(who just got owned) since she will go on and on trying to persuade people to believe what she wants you to believe and not what YOU chose to believe. If you truly love Kurt let him rest in peace and keep him alive by listening to his wonderful music. Let's all agree to disagree instead of arguing.
snowbloodqueen 10 months ago 2
@snowbloodqueen
You're totally right. I've been arguing with that person on some other video for nearly a week! She's oblivious to the fact that Kurt's always been facinated by suicide, and that this 'evidence' has been shown to the law already and was turned down because it wasn't strong enough. I wish people would just remember him for his music and humility, and not instantly think that he was just some murdered junkie.
scartissue94 10 months ago
@scartissue94 Yeah, there are some videos on here where he himself admits to being suicidal.
snowbloodqueen 10 months ago
@ockinguitarchick121 And one more thing before I go (I do not intend to waste anymore time on a video created especially for people who insist Courtney killed someone who was suicidal and you know this), she was engaged to Edward Norton. Norton is a critically acclaimed actor who was just as rich (if not more) as Kurt. Why the fuck did he not end up dead? And again Kurt would be fucking pissed because you are insulting the woman he loved and chose to marry.
bruiseviolet05 10 months ago
@bruiseviolet05 lmaoooo she was also fucking her new bf billy corgan 3 weeks after kurt died. norton didn't end up dead because she had nothing to gain from that. kurt and courtney had a prenup, so if they divorced she wouldn't get SHIT. ONCE AGAIN, get your facts straight.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 The Rome incident, she did not even have to call 911 she could have said she was asleep and did not know he was overdosing. A lot of people hated Courtney long before Kurt died and needed someone to blame for his death because everyone is reluctant to accept he took his own life. Courtney is considered a bad person because of the mistakes she has done. Kurt use to fuck up too yet he is considered a tortured saint. You conspiracist always will get asshurt when contradicted.
bruiseviolet05 10 months ago
@bruiseviolet05 she DID say she was asleep. also said she woke up around 3:30 or 4 am and found him unconscious with his nose bleeding. she just chose to not call for help until 6:30 am.... no big deal.you do realize that it's a private investigator and not just some ordinary person that was suspicious of foul play, right? ummm, did kurt ever get sued by his fans for punching them? did kurt even care about money? did kurt lie at every chance he got? it's not a conspiracy when there's evidence.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 You do realize you are still talking to someone who told you was done here? Omg are you serious?! I think everyone here KNOWS Tom Grant was hired by Courtney lmao. And to be honest I have to agree Tom Grant is more well known now for his investigations of the Kurt Cobain case. You need to do some investigating of your own because Billy Corgan was not her new bf, she dated him before she dated Kurt. Get YOUR facts straight little girl instead of spending all your time here.
snowbloodqueen 10 months ago
@snowbloodqueen actually for your information, courtney admitted to being with billy corgan AFTER kurt died. and actually the last conversation she had with kurt was how billy was going to be making a shit load of money from lollapalooza while kurt was bailing on it. i like how you call me a little girl to make yourself feel superior. that's ok though, i don't stoop to levels like that. i research things before i talk.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 I never claimed to be superior to you I just call them how I see them. And I bet you do a lot of research, bet it's all you do. To be honest you do not know what was the last conversation she had with Kurt no one but her and Kurt know, and I bet right now you are going to tell me you do know because you research it lmfao.
snowbloodqueen 10 months ago
@snowbloodqueen you're right, i do a lot of research. that's a part of education. and you're also right that only courtney and kurt know what the last conversation was that they had. that's why courtney's the one that admitted it. do you think there's something wrong with research? because if you do then you must be very uneducated. and i am wasting my time trying to enlighten an uneducated person. on that note, i'll leave it to you whether you want to find out the truth or not.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 There is nothing wrong with research, but constantly obssesing over something that did not even happen is just bad. You are calling me uneducated when you can't even properly spell right? And what truth do you speak of? It seems you are only interested in making people believe your "truth" you even stated in a few comments below that you want to persuade people to believe what you do according to your 'research'. Accept other peoples beliefs and agree to disagree.
snowbloodqueen 10 months ago
@snowbloodqueen i'm obsessed just because i've read about it? wow. and what exactly did i misspell? oh... and it's not spell "right" it's spell "correctly." and it's not MY truth. it's something that many professionals have agreed on. and yes of course i want to persuade people that don't believe it... especially people that "loved" kurt. and you want to accept others beliefs? why don't you do that first since you keep claiming that it never happened. hypocrite. i'm done. goodbye.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
Tom Grant is a fucking bastard. Why is he so interested in Kurt's death? Because he is an attention whore. Does he not realize he is hurting the two most important people in Kurt's life? Frances and Courtney. Does he not think that he is pissing Frances Bean off by calling her mother a murderer? Sorry people but this is not the OJ Simpson case; there is no evidence that she killed him. If she wanted him dead she would have let him OD on Rohypnol, but no she didn't she called 911.
bruiseviolet05 11 months ago 2
@bruiseviolet05- I'm not even going to argue with you. I have been through this a million times with a million different stupid people. Courtney love in an interview said she woke up at 4am and saw that he had OD'd "with blood coming out of his nose", yet she didn't call the paramedics (she didnt call 911 because she was in rome) until 6am. What was she waiting for?For him to die perhaps? Tom is interested in Kurt's death because he thinks he was murdered and he wants justice. Duh!
shazzadee 11 months ago
@shazzadee You are entitled to your opinion and since this is your video (which I stumbled upon out of curiousty) I will not comment on it anymore all I am going to say is that Tom Grant went looking for Kurt at their home in Seattle but failed to look in the greenhouse, a good detective/cop doesn't miss shit like that. He is just exploiting Kurt's death, him and other idiots. And if he was 'murdered' why just suspect Courtney? Why not his friends?
bruiseviolet05 11 months ago
@bruiseviolet05-Because Kurt was intending to get a divorce and his unfortunate demise nullified their prenup which would have otherwise left Courtney with squat.By her own admission, since Kurt's death, his estate has earned her half a billion. That's half a billion she would not have if Kurt survived the extra two weeks to sign his changed will (courtney removed) and serve her with divorce papers. He expressed his intention to leave the day he "OD'd" in rome.
shazzadee 11 months ago
@bruiseviolet05 courtney isn't the only suspect. they questioned the nanny, kurt's best friend, and even members of nirvana and hole. you obviously don't know anything about the circumstances about this case. why don't you do some research before you start bad mouthing people. he's not exploiting anything. do you see this on any tabloids magazine? do you see tom trying to make a profit from this? not many people even know about this. that's why so many people still think kurt took his life.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@bruiseviolet05 how is he hurting them? he's proving to frances that her father loved her and did not leave her... if you read about her recently, she doesn't even talk to courtney anymore because that bitch took money out of her trust fund. and she did want him dead in Rome when that happened because she waited almost 3 hours before actually calling 911... she wanted to make it seem like she was trying to help. read up on your facts before you start talking shit
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 Lmao no, no noooo you're the one talking shit. You and that media whore Tom Grant who has made himself famous off of Kurt's death. Like I said he is hurting both Frances and Courtney because 1. Frances has said that it hurts her when people make up shit about her mother (no matter what Courtney is still her mother) 2. He is hurting Courtney by accusing her of a 'murder' that never happened. And again if she wanted him dead she would have just let him die in Rome.
bruiseviolet05 10 months ago
@bruiseviolet05 actually, i didn't say anything incorrect. you called tom an "attention whore," you're assuming he's hurting frances and courtney, assuming that's pissing off frances, and arguing there's no evidence. seems to me like you're the one talking shit. all of the investigation he's doing on this is coming straight out of his pocket. there's a reason why courtney never denies having a part in kurt's death. and again... she tried to look like a hero in rome. they were her rohypnol pills.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 Um...NO I will not waste my time looking up websites created by conspiracy idiots for conspiracy idiots. And I am not assuming, it's the truth. Do you honestly think he is not gaining something out of this? You say the name Tom Grant and you automatically know who heis due to Kurt. And I am the one talking shit? Why because refuse to agree with you? If Kurt was still alive he would put all of you talking shit about Courtney in your place. That was his love.
bruiseviolet05 10 months ago
@bruiseviolet05 actually this guy is a renowned investigator THAT COURTNEY HIRED and a former officer. now you're assuming that everyone knows tom grant because of kurt. you don't have anything to back up any of the things you're saying. and you're talking shit... because you're talking shit haha i mean wtf listen to yourself! and yea kurt loved her until he realized she's a psycho. did you know he was about to sign divorce papers right before he died? once again, get your facts straight.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@bruiseviolet05 A lot happened between Rome and his death. When did he try to change his will? She could have later regretted calling 911, and the Rome incident could have inspired her to plan his death as a suicide for all we know. Sure I'm speculating but it's smarter than thinking you know what happened when you don't. So don't think for one minute that Rome somehow proves her innocence in the later tragedy. The guy was murdered by someone, and that is supported by evidence. Cops screwed up.
MrStonesword 3 months ago
It was on a ihop.Because i went to ihop.lol Someone give this bit*h some bad heroine.
wastelandsoldier1 1 year ago
These recording should be hard copied and sent to his daughter she deserves to know the truth no matter the hurt. )o...
MrSokitumi 1 year ago
listen to how she tries to change the subject from burning the note to some loud pop and how weird it was. How can this street hooker get away with this, I really hope some crazy nirvana fan kills her I really do.
123bobajoh 1 year ago
I have no idea if Courtney did it. There are so many proofs og homicide but at the same time it's hard to believe that Kurt would be fooled like that by Courtney. He always said she was his best friend and everything. I really don't know what to believe but I do now Courtney didn't love Kurt that much. She said in an interview that Kurt was not the love of her life and she seems pretty crazy too but she was the woman that Kurt chose and I want to respect him. I'm pretty much torn!
7thPerfection 1 year ago
If Courtney Love really did kill Kurt Cobain, I hope she fucking get's what she deserves. If she didn't, I hope you all fucking burn in hell for believing it.
Joccy335 1 year ago
Poor Kurt :(
I hope this bitch gets what she deserves.
craigaffer1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
At 1:03 does she say "It's in red pen and its on an Ihop(menu), because I went to the Ihop..." what?! why would she be there when he wrote it? who the fuck goes to Ihop and writes a suicide note anyway? "Yeah I'll have blueberry pancakes, an orange juice and a placemat to write a suicide note on", come on.
richelle6383 1 year ago
Comment removed
richelle6383 1 year ago
At 1:03 does she say "It's in red pen and its on an Ihop(menu), because I went to the Ihop..." what?! why would she be there when he wrote it? who the fuck goes to Ihop and writes a suicide note anyway? "Yeah I'll have blueberry pancakes, an orange juice and a placemat to write a suicide note on", come on.
richelle6383 1 year ago 5
Karma can be a real bitch, but then So can Ms. Love
sevenlemon 1 year ago
i think this case should be reopened courtney knows wat she did and there is alot of prooff
darkwolf1881 1 year ago 4
i wanna know. why this video/conversation was cut short. :L
LOVEKILLEDKURT
DanYul55 2 years ago
It's cut short because Tom Grant has over 30 hours of recordings and he has only released content that is relevant and does not compromise other evidence collected; reserved for if there is a trial in future...
shazzadee 2 years ago
righty ho.
trial in the future.=c'mon!!! :L
DanYul55 2 years ago
i believe kurt was depressed..but i hate courtney love for the fact she got pregnant on the sly. kurt didnt want her until frances bean was conceived. i love frances, but i think kurt would be here if he had never married her. he should have been awarded full custody and be done with it. i think he and frances would have been happier that way
bellacullen5412 2 years ago 2
Due to the fact that he was facing a divorce, he was extremely stressed, but depressed he was not. He had been depressed in the past, even suicidal; not at the time of his death. As Tom once said "He was leaving seattle, leaving courtney, not leaving the planet!". I hate courtney love because I believe that she is a murderer and no other reason. But I do not understand how anyone could think she was talented...
shazzadee 2 years ago 7
KURT DIDN'T OFF HIMSELF, JERKOFFS! All of the evidence points to Courtney Love and Cali DeWitt, either\or. There is not enough about that Det. Cameron to place him in the time line leading to Cobain's death. If the cheap ass government wont look into the facts a little closer, then they are pathetic excuses for justice and protection. Pathetic like Courtney.
tHeSuPrEmEbEiNg0 2 years ago 7
I think the evidence implicating Courtney Love is too overwhelming for them not to re-open the Cobain case. There's a blaringly obvious motive for Love to kill Cobain. Furthermore, there's the questionable death of Eldon Hoke; the man who claimed that Courtney Love hired him to kill Kurt Cobain. I'm suprised that Courtney herself does not want the case re-opened. If she has nothing to hide, why not put all the implications to bed by taking a second and more thorough look at Cobain's "suicide"?
Seosav 2 years ago 15
@Seosav the problem is that the evidence they have isn't like concrete, ya know? like it's not scientifically linking courtney or anyone for that matter, to kurt's death. i feel the same way you do. i wish they would reopen the case with what they have but i'm afraid it won't get them too far.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 I agree...I doubt this case will ever be reopened. The Rome Note: burned. The greenhouse Kurt died in: leveled. The shotgun he shot himself with: destroyed. All that remains are his unreleased autopsy reports, and the undeveloped crime scene photos. The "evidence" for murder is largely circumstantial, and/or relies on inconclusive/conflicting forensic opinions over the small amount of evidence that was actually released to the public.
TestMeatDollSteak 10 months ago
@TestMeatDollSteak honestly, i think that if enough people voice out their opinions, we can really help Tom to reopen it. I mean the only thing holding this back is the Seattle Police Department... but if we can just somehow overrule them... that would be it. and really, there have been a lot of trials where people get convicted solely on circumstantial evidence. you don't necessarily have to have a blood smear or a fingerprint to convict someone. Tom has enough here to convict courtney AND cali
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 No, no..I've read cobaincase and justiceforkurt and Roger Lewis's essay. I know all about the "evidence" in favor of Kurt's murder, and it's really all just circumstantial and inconclusive. There is absolutely ZERO evidence placing ANYONE other than Kurt Cobain in the greenhouse that day...no signs of a struggle, no signs of forced entry, and nothing but conjecture ties any of the circumstantial "evidence" together. Kurt Cobain committed suicide. Everyone needs to accept it
TestMeatDollSteak 10 months ago
@TestMeatDollSteak I agree with you. And if Tom Grant was such a good investigator why did he fail to check the greenhouse? Everyone here knows about those stupid conspiracy websites and there is no real evidence and throughout the years they have come up with nothing new to prove he was murdered.
snowbloodqueen 10 months ago
@snowbloodqueen Word... it's interesting to me that the majority of people who swallow all of the hype surrounding Cobain's death were either not even born, or were still shitting their diapers when Kurt and Nirvana were actually playing music together. Oh, youthful naivete...
TestMeatDollSteak 10 months ago
@TestMeatDollSteak you seem like a level headed person, so i won't bother trying to persuade you like i have before with other people that don't seem to know what they're talking about. although i disagree with you, i do agree with you to a certain extent about the evidence. but i really disagree about everyone needing to accept it. there is also no forensic evidence of a suicide either. we, ordinary people, don't know what really happened. i don't like settling just because of popular belief.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 I appreciate your calm demeanor. I did not respond to your post in an insulting manner, so again, I appreciate the reciprocity. As a long time Nirvana fan, I have read quite a bit about Cobain's death, life, and music. Like you, I am a skeptical person. You stated that there wasn't any sound forensic evidence of suicide. I have read interviews with Hartshorne that state the contrary. Are you familiar with instantaneous rigor/cataleptic rigidty?
TestMeatDollSteak 10 months ago
@TestMeatDollSteak yes i am familiar with instantaneous rigor. what about it?
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 Then you're aware that Hartshorne says he diagnosed the phenomenon in Cobain's hand around the barrel of the gun? And you're aware that in order for the phenomenon to have occurred, Cobain would had to have been consciously squeezing the shotgun barrel at the exact moment the shotgun blast killed him?
TestMeatDollSteak 10 months ago
@TestMeatDollSteak not necessarily. he was dead for 3 days before they found him. his body was showing signs of rigor mortis which is why the officer had to pry the gun out of his hand. that's how they figured that he had been dead for a while... because of the rigor mortis. all rigor mortis is, is a chemical change in the body that occurs with death, it causes the body to become stiff. that's all. it definitely wasn't a phenomenon lol as long as someone placed his hand there, it would happen.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 You are correct about regular rigor, but decidedly incorrect about instantaneous rigor. May I PM you some information?
TestMeatDollSteak 10 months ago
@TestMeatDollSteak sure go ahead.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
@rockinguitarchick121 OK. Check your inbox.
TestMeatDollSteak 10 months ago
@TestMeatDollSteak and there is a lot more evidence that you might be aware of. if you go to cobaincase. com or justiceforkurt. com, there is A LOT of evidence. even medical autopsy reports that show kurt had waaaaay too much heroin in his system to even be able to shoot himself. they said it was almost impossibly. of course there is that 0.0001%, ya know? but in reality, there has not been ONE case that they could find that was similar to this in terms of that level of heroin.
rockinguitarchick121 10 months ago
shazzadee you are fueling hatred and conspiracies. if you loved kurt and nirvana so much, make a memorial web site. by replaying these, you're fueling negativity towards a woman who clearly has enough bad publicity for several lifetimes. no one knows what happened, and i for one am not convinced by tom grant's files (i've spent many hours reading through his web site). I could never love a murderer, and i feel in my heart of hearts that courtney has nothing to hide.
heartrock83 2 years ago
1. I feel that my videos demand answers, not fuel hatred.
2. Her negative publicity are fueled by her own thoughtless actions and are rightfully deserved.
3. Maybe we could discuss the reason what you don't understand about the information that Tom has released .
4.He has a plethora of evidence but has only released enough to address the fact that the case needs to be reopened and I feel that he has done that.
5. You are entitled to love her, but do not expect me to.
shazzadee 2 years ago 7
@shazzadee
I feel that you want the "answers" that you want. Not necessarily the ones that are real.
This proves nothing. The officer most likely was giving advice to a known heroin addict with a daughter to think about. "Burn it" would be the best advice. For one...Frances would never run into it at a later date causing more grief in their lives and two.) Courtney wouldn't obsess about it and get some closure. I think this shit is as callous as you can get towards another human being.
Sn4pDr4gon 1 year ago
@Sn4pDr4gon-
I don't think you know what you are talking about. A police officer cannot condone the destruction of evidence. It identified that he was not suicidal and that his intention was to get a divorce. He advised her to destroy it because it was incriminating. There are other recordings that I have posted that are simply clips from 30 hours worth of evidence. I know the person who recorded them. He has some clips on his site.
shazzadee 1 year ago
@shazzadee
I think you are purposely taking the "note" out of context. The note fails to be evidence after an investigation....especially when a police officer is court ordered to return the property to it's rightful owner. I read the note verbatim. Not only is it common for Heroin addicts to write at great lengths on a binge....it is also highly common that from hour to hour their handwriting changes. He didn't advise her to destroy the note because of incrimination...he was offering closure.
Sn4pDr4gon 1 year ago
@Sn4pDr4gon I see that you posted this quite some time ago, but I'd still like to say that I agree with your assessment of Cameron's suggesting to Courtney to get rid of the Rome Note. Cobain's death had already been ruled a suicide, with no suggestion to the SPD of foul play, and the Rome Note's purpose for serving as a known handwriting sample of Cobain's to compare against the Suicide Note had been served. From even Love's own accounts, the note said hurtful things to her. He offered closure.
TestMeatDollSteak 10 months ago
The detective was most likely REQUIRED to return the note; telling her to burn it would have most likely just been personal, not professional, advice.
herby190 2 years ago
I am going to give you an opportunity to read over what you have said......
shazzadee 2 years ago
herby190: are you implying the police were sympathetic thowards Courtney? That in itself is unprofessional. And telling her to burn evidence is really unprofessional, in fact it points to corruption.
judyleasugar97 2 years ago
Courtney Love hired Tom Grant to interfere with Kurt's personal life. He was leaving her for good and leaving Seattle. You need to educate yourself. He did not kill himself. Did you not listen to this video? She admits motive! She also admits that the Rome note WAS NOT A SUICIDE NOTE, which is different from what she told the press.
shazzadee 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Yeah, if your husband committed suicide and the press and public won't leave you the fuck alone, of course you're going to say something wrong eventually. And why would she not destroy the evidence? Maybe she doesn't want to looka t it anymore? Maybe she doesn't want a fucking reminder? Think of her as a human, and then maybe things will make sense.
herby190 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This people like Tom Grant are full of shit, I'm sure he committed suicide and he did because of people like Tom Grant trying to get in his and Courtney's private life. Courtney probably loved him more than this mental retarded detective and fifteen year old misoginist Nirvana's fans. Probably Dave Grohl tried to kill him but he didn't get the money hahaha
laperallimonera 2 years ago
@laperallimonera ur sure courtney loved him more than anyone else? are you kidding me?! thats why she was cheating on him right? lol their marriage was failing..that we do know. And maybe there was infedelity on both sides. We just dont know....but the FACT is they were going to get divorced, so i highly doubt she loved him that much..in fact, i dont think SHE ever did to begin with. i think she used him for money and fame.
bethany2nirvana 1 year ago 4
im gonna kill that king of grudge killer
Alster180 2 years ago
I think prison would be a much better punishment. That way she would have the rest of her life to dwell on the fact that it was all for nothing. Frances turns eighteen next year and Courtney blew her trust fund, so I have a feeling maybe he will get justice soon. When Frances wakes up to what her mother is really like. Have you heard of Project Unplugged? It is on tomgrantpi's youtube channel. :)
shazzadee 2 years ago 2
courtney i wish you die
kasia14010 2 years ago
I don't want her to die. I want her to go to gaol (jail) for life for murdering her husband. That would be a much better punishment.
shazzadee 2 years ago 7
shes gunna kill herself
VampiresBiteHard666 2 years ago
??? Uh-huh. Come again?
shazzadee 2 years ago
shes messed up bad (junkie) she had to kill him 4 a reason but why tho
VampiresBiteHard666 2 years ago
Well as indicated in other recordings that I have added, she admits that he was leaving her and they were getting a divorce. They had a prenup in place and the prenup was obviously voided when he died. He was also in the process of writing her out of his will. Money is the motive here.
shazzadee 2 years ago 3
@shazzadee Me too. She deserves it!
riverphoenixgurl 6 months ago
it should SOOO b reopened!!!!!!
KurtCobainGurl 2 years ago 6
Agreed. Have you watched all the videos? This is just a taste of 30 hours of conversation that Tom Grant recorded during the eight months that he dealt with her. I'm guessing that you have subscribed to tomgrantpi's channel? :) If not, you really should. Tom is releasing a self funded documentary segment by segment on youtube called Project unplugged :)
shazzadee 2 years ago
Actually no it was not. That was the opinion of Krist Novoselic because of the raise and drop in tides. And there was a smaller bridge in aberdeen that homeless people DO sleep under, it just was not the one he named. That could be an honest mistake. I misname places and locations all the time. You obviously are the one that knows nothing about him. But no, he is not my "idol". And obviously you make comments for the sake of arguements without actually watching or listening to the videos!
shazzadee 2 years ago
I couldn't agree more with the last 2 comments...also, let us not forget that even the guys out there who made tapes about "conspiracy theories" like you're doing have said that Kurt tried to call Courtney because he thought she didn't love him anymore. Hello?
He was a drug addict and he is also known for being a bit of an attention seeker. After all, it is proven that he didn't live under a bridge, is it not?
Do you really know your idol?
panderson1985 2 years ago
Don't be saying shit about how her comments about him were sarcastic. She used sacrasm during his funeral when reading his suicide note. Both Courtney and Kurt were on drugs at that time and they both had the sarcastic humor. It was her personality to use anger and sarcasm as defence instead of complete sadness. The Rome suicide attempt just proves that Kurt wanted to die. Why would Courtney need to distroy it anyway? It basically said that Kurt thought she didnt love him anymore.
monikabialoglowicz 2 years ago
what is this of course she destroyed the suicide note from rome, he survived why would you keep something as niaistic as a failed suicide attempt note. I can totally understand why courtney would do that, plus all of kurts stuff (including the successful suicide note) is in a safety deposit box a. because it's as valueable as goldust, finacially, iconically, and sentimentally. b. because when someone loses someone, it's painful to have all their stuff around the house.
redmeatheart 2 years ago
She destroyed it after his death. Did you not listen to the recording at all? Courtney claims it was a suicide note "but he says he's leaving me". I think Kurt would know the meaning of his own note. Watch all of the videos.
shazzadee 2 years ago