I'll admit... my first thought about the "building a mosque at ground zero" situation was that it seemed like a final Islamic "screw you buddy"; something like figuratively planting a banner over corpses of a slain enemy, sneering all the while.
But as you smartly illustrate, the people involved with the community center are ordinary Americans who happen to be muslim, and not malicious Taliban invaders.
Being American is more than just "slithering out of a mothers womb on American soil". It is a state of being that transcends just being born here, which you are clearly testament too.
The only thing you got right is that I am from West Virginia, where we KNOW right from wrong, and stand up for what is right. Oh...and for the record, no offense taken at the "big burly ape" comments. And I am PROUD of my son for taking the initiate, with NO prompting from me to stand for what is right, and against what is wrong. Too bad more people don't do the same.
6. With all of the completely innacurate statements that you make in just a few seconds of this video, it completely ruins your credibility on anything that you say in the rest of the video. You should take lessons on reporting. Googling my name and finding that I am associated with a TEA Party does not mean I was there with the TEA Party. I am also a firefighter and paramedic. Does that mean that I brought my ambulance with me? No...we rode my Harley.
I am the "Big Burly Ape" with my son, who you make comments about. First, let me correct your MANY mistakes. 1. I was not there with any TEA Party. I was with the 9/11 motorcycle ride. 2. "Thats the media for you" What does the media have to do with this? 3. "Attracting crazies" I am "crazy for having an opinion and for standing up for what I think is right? 4. "pulled his young son into the fray" I did not "pull" him into anything. He stood up for what is right on his own.
One can only hope, and i think it's inevitable. The more science is able to explain the less room there is in the universe for a god. But then maybe they'll start worshiping numbers or something. idk. :/
We should herd and separate all the right wingers and christian fundies into one side of the nation, and all the liberal and religiously free people into the other side (which would obviously include all the scientists, doctors etc), and see what happens after a hundred years or so. I am willing to bet that the right winger side would deteriorate into a third world country as they rain dance and pray their way into poverty, while the left wing side would progress and bloom.
The only person with good point was the woman speaking of potential future oppression on women.. I don't see it getting that far though, it's a pseudo community center nothing crazy...
@MrNicMachiavelli Thats fine for them, aslong as it stays as a flexible interpretative system, akin to some of the bibles teachings i suppose. The only major concern i have is if they try implementing, adhering others or practicing sharia law as if it actually was lawful.
I like the idea of protesting at mosque's, but this is not how I would do it. Any protest I would join would have to realize that most muslims, like most christians are good people trying to live the best lives possible.
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." -Steven Weinberg
"I said that MOST of the country's major problems are caused or aggravated by religion."
Again, that was my point. You keep saying "problems" whether some or all are caused by religion. I'm saying "no" they're caused by bad people doing bad things. If you want to insult someone then insult the idiots themselves, not their religion.
@trekfan92 "I'm saying "no" they're caused by bad people doing bad things."
You seriously are beginning to bore me, because nothing you are saying is any kind of actual refutation of my statements. Yes, problems are caused by "bad people doing bad things," if you are so intent on being as simplistic as possible. The problem is, a lot of those "bad people doing bad things" find justification FROM THEIR RELIGION. Does that mean that ALL religious people behave this way? No, and I never said so.
Religion has not caused the world harsh problems. If so then every religious person would be a bad person. Some of the coolest people I know are religious. Religion is not the problem, attitude is the problem. Don't attack people for their religious beliefs, attack their lousy attitude if they have it. Their religious affiliation is irrelevant.
@trekfan92 "Religion has not caused the world harsh problems. If so then every religious person would be a bad person"
That's a ridiculous argument. That's like saying "Smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. If it did, then everyone who smokes would have lung cancer."
The point I made is that most of the country's major problems -- the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, denying civil rights to homosexuals, terrorist attacks -- are caused by morons obeying their god and respective religions.
@xxxThePeachxxx I agree, religion being used as a justification for the immoral acts of humans is one of the most profoundly accepted dangers of human ignorance. The fact that a great majority of us can sit by and even willfully accept the perpetuation of moral evils simply because they are posited to the exercise of some religion. And that under the pretense that everything whether good or bad must be respected equally and therefore tolerated is fucking moronic.
@xxxThePeachxxx Actually, your analogy doesn't quite work. I'm an atheist and I can still safely agree with trefkan's comments on religion. I'm sure I can find plenty of atheists who do horrible things. And history has shown that as well. A knife can be used to smear butter on a bagel or stab someone to death. It's up to the person to choose how to use it. The OSTENSIBLE motives of the Taliban are based in religion- but it's really about politics and jealousy.
@pawnstar3 "I'm an atheist and I can still safely agree with trefkan's comments on religion. I'm sure I can find plenty of atheists who do horrible things."
Well, that's my point entirely. He made the statement that if religion wasn't the cause of so many problems, then all religious people would be bad. And seeing as how I never said nor implied that I think all religious people ARE bad, his argument false presumes my position, and my analogy is valid.
@xxxThePeachxxx The implication of your analogy was that because SOME people do bad things because of religion then it needs to be stopped. And then you made your smoking analogy. The reason the analogy is bad is because smoking is a direct cause of cancer. Religion in and of itself is not a direct cause of evil, any more than atheism could be. Some modern murderers have cited 'American Psycho' as inspirational - should we ban that book as well?
@pawnstar3 lol I've given up. She won't listen. She keeps saying not all religious people are bad, which is fine but then she keeps saying bad religious people do bad things because of motivation from their religion. That's weird because that's like saying a gun forced itself into someone's hand and some how forced the person to pull the trigger to murder someone. By saying that she's still attacking the association, not the individual.
@trekfan92 Yeah I'm giving her opportunities to clarify her argument and she only keeps saying the same thing over and over, not realizing that it doesn't make sense.
@pawnstar3 "The implication of your analogy was that because SOME people do bad things because of religion then it needs to be stopped"
Uh no, it wasn't, and it's not my problem that that is what you took away from it. I was using the analogy that states that smoking has a strong correlation to lung cancer, even though not all people who smoke develop lung cancer. When religious people fervently follow the edicts of their gods, this has a strong correlation to causing major problems, (etc)
@pawnstar3 such as discrimination against homosexuals, terrorist attacks, the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Republican line-up for President, etc. It appears that you and the trekkie can't seem to understand this concept. But if you both are truly that simple, then let me spell it out for you: I don't believe that religion CAUSES people to behave badly, nor do I believe that all religious people are bad. But religion CAN exasperate bad behavior by providing a "justification" for it.
@xxxThePeachxxx Guess what? anything COULD cause bad behavior - does that mean we should eradicate everything then? That's such a simple-minded approach to it. People can justify their actions in any number of ways? Let me ask you this again? Should 'American Psycho' be banned because it inspired some murderers to kill people. I'm an atheist and what I usually hate about religious people is how dogmatic they are - but so are certain atheists such as yourself.
@xxxThePeachxxx wow I think I lost some respect for you. I really thought you were smarter than that. Again I'll say Religion is not the problem, Attitude is the problem. This is America, guilt by association does not apply here. The problems of this world were caused by idiots abusing their religion for their own personal needs. What about the good people that are religious? Are they horrible too. You're only focusing on the negative. So cut the crap.
@trekfan92 It doesn't matter that there are a few good people that are religious. Basically if you want to believe that the reason you are a good person is your religion, go right ahead. I think that detracts from your own worth, but that's just me. I'd rather be a good person because of my own reasons. However not everyone is as rational as you might be. Religion does cause hatred. Religion does cause problems. Period. Just like it causes good things as well.
@UltimaWeaponDeux You're right. When i was going to church i stood against things that i really didn't have a problem with, but because i thought god was against them, and i wanted to please god, i stood against them to. Quite embarrassing, really. :(
@trekfan92 We're you paying any attention whatsoever to what she was saying? Near the end of her video she clearly stated "Guilt by association is BS." (14:33) In fact that was the entire fucking point she was trying to make in her video ya moron. She was saying that not all muslims by association are crazy people who will kill in the name of their religion just because the 9/11 hijackers were muslims who killed and terrorized many people for the same reason.
@luxord2654 yes I know that's what she said. I was replying to her comment, not her video dude. Pay attention to what I was talking about. She says not all muslims are bad, but then she tells me that religion causes all the world's problems. She just contradicted herself.
@trekfan92 "She says not all muslims are bad, but then she tells me that religion causes all the world's problems. She just contradicted herself."
No, you just misquoted me. I never said that "all the world's problems" were caused by religion. I said that MOST of the country's major problems are caused or aggravated by religion. And I gave a few examples. At no point in my comments or my video (if you even bothered to watch it entirely) did I say or imply that all religious people were bad.
@trekfan92 She even said the same thing about Christians in the video! (3:28) Pay more attention next time to what she is saying. Yes, she does think that religion is a major issue that causes ignorance and hatred. But the point she was making with this video is that that does not make all religious people by association, Muslims or Christians alike, completely insane killing machines.
@luxord2654 Again I already listened to what she said. Again I was replying to her comment. And again by saying religion is a major cause of problems she is contradicting herself. Religion isn't the problem, attitude is the problem. Sounds like you're the one who should pay attention.
@trekfan92 "wow I think I lost some respect for you"
Wow, I think I don't care.
"Again I'll say Religion is not the problem, Attitude is the problem"
Some people's attitudes are influence, if not exasperated, by their religious doctrine. Without such nonsense filling their heads, they'd be more inclined to consider their misgivings.
"The problems of this world were caused by idiots abusing their religion for their own personal needs."
@xxxThePeachxxx "Some people's attitudes are influence, if not exasperated, by their religious doctrine. Without such nonsense filling their heads, they'd be more inclined to consider their misgivings."
All things around you influence your attitude, but who governs your attitude? You do. You can't use religion or anything else as an excuse to blame someone. You blame the individual, not their affiliation.
@trekfan92 "You can't use religion or anything else as an excuse to blame someone. You blame the individual, not their affiliation."
Are you just on not only straw-manning me, but even repeating my very arguments stated in my video? If I bought into guilt by association, then I'd be denouncing all religious people for the atrocities that religion has inspired, but I do not. However, turning a blind eye to the fact that religion HAS motivated people to do horrible things is just as dishonest.
Btw, i noticed in several of your video's you tell people not to waste your time with this argument or that argument. THis is odd to me. It's like you really don't want to accept ANY argument, or perhaps only pre-approved arguments. :/
@HPGWellscraft right now they're able to like on other vids. I was wondering if she disabled them or something. You're right though, I hate how youtube keeps changing.
@trekfan92 Yeah, i've had trouble keeping up, wondering if it was me or the computer i'm on or something. Cuz it went back and forth. Wish i could just keep the old one. oh well. She prolly did disable likes, though she doesn't really seem the type, and i don't know what purpose that would serve anyway. :/
How can Atheists pitch a fit every-time they see a cross on the side of the road where a person died in a car wreck or every time they see the ten commandments, but be perfectly fine with an "Islamic community center" being constructed as close as possible to Ground Zero? The center is, according to islam, a symbol of it's victory over America and of Americas submission to Islam. If it's no big deal, then why not just move it somewhere else instead of causing a riot? Yes i do watch Pat Condell.
@MrPyrulen ok, but which two issues? I'm not trolling, it's just that i made several comments and i don't know which one you're referring to. Since facebook stopped connecting comments with replies (via inbox) its really difficult to hold a conversation over the course of several days. :/
@HPGWellscraft yeah nah it's ok i completely understand :) you said that atheists complaining about the public displays of crosses and the ten commandments, but being perfectly fine with a Islamic community center being constructed near ground zero.
Now i'm not america so ten years on 9/11 isn't as emotionally impacting on me. But the freedom to erect a communal gathering place much like any christian based center is a separate issue to the wrongful
@HPGWellscraft place of items of worship in places like schools and other secular institutions. I don't mind the putting of crosses by sites of car accidents and i would disagree with any atheist that did, ( again the difficulty with condemning atheistic beliefs is there are no rigid structure for them each atheists beliefs of there own interpretation and application of logic, we just all agree there is no god.)
@MrPyrulen Ok, you're saying (if i'm understanding you correctly) that building a gathering place for adherents of a particular belief system is different than having those symbols displayed in secular places. And i suppose this is true to a point. But i think they are related in pple's reactions to them, especially when those reactions are over-reactions. Because Athiest do rage when they see crosses and ten commandments, and its just seems odd to me when they say this is ok.
@HPGWellscraft Well you can't apply the reactions of some to that of all of us. Its appropriate to get mad when we see a violation of what is supposed to be a secular institution because religion already infests area's of government it has no place in. as i said i would agree with you that it's wrong to condemn someone for practicing there religion or indeed placing a cross next to a road where someone was killed. It doesn't bother me more than my concern for there families.
@MrPyrulen And i know they're calling it a "community center" but really whatever you call it it's undoubtedly going to be a place of worship, and i think it's also important to see where the funding for the center is coming from, as well as the Islamic history and tradition of erecting these centers/buildings in places they deem to have "conquered". I know The Peach doesn't really agree with Pat Condell on many issues, but i think i gotta side with Pat on this one. :/
@HPGWellscraft I also agree entirely, it's important to look at this issue in depth when i say i think it's right that muslims should be afforded the same rights as a christian group would doesn't mean im saying we don't have to look into what exactly they are proposing. I would say the same for any religion. I am a outsider to this issue i live in australia, but i have no problem with them erecting a center of there own, it depends ofcourse on the function of the center.
@HPGWellscraft For instance I strongly disagree with anyone that would propose the construction of Sharia law or a sharia court, for the processing of a Islamic people to be legally accountable based on religious beliefs. I detest that part of Islam, perhaps i just don't have a concrete understanding but the self government of Islam and sharia law should never overrule the secular government. Again though i admit to having a limited understanding of it.
@MrPyrulen I hope you didn't misunderstand me, i actually have no problem with them putting crosses by the road, but that seemed the most applicable example as ive seen it before and know most atheists are against it. But like you, my concern is for the families.Agreed. And i feel like in Amercia all religious groups are treated equally, but remember when that preacher was going to burn the Quran, then decided against it because of the hostility? Why can't these ppl make that same decision?
@HPGWellscraft no misunderstanding, i was just agreeing with you on that point. I was simply referring to your claim that other atheists complain about it, which im ok with they can complain i don't agree with them but that doesn't mean i'll try to shut them up because we happen to fall under the same categorical definition in respect to our views on a supreme being. I don't recall that, I guess i would have to say that people rights are contingent on what offends others.
@HPGWellscraft If that preacher hesitated because he knew that there would be an insane backlash of violence form the Islamic world then that's his decision. It doesn't affect his rights to do as he pleases ( at least not as far as i know). The thing here is just that there isn't that concern on the other side, whether or not there should be isn't a question i can answer. There is no reason for potential offense to encroach on someone else s rights.
@MrPyrulen Indeed, but how often do Muslims encroach on others right when they depict Mohammed unfavorably? It just seems a little one sided that they demand so much more respect then they are willing to give.
@HPGWellscraft I agree it's bullshit that such double standards exist, and i agree i should be able to draw a stick figure of Muhammad for shits and giggles and indeed i have that right. But i don't think the answer to such a double standard is to then turn around and say, well now you don't have rights!, instead we should be fighting against there censorship. we tolerate there belief, but we don't regulate peoples freedom of expression based on their beliefs.
@MrPyrulen That absolutely true, and i agree 100%. But we're not talking rights. Their rights are already quite clear. The muslims can put a mosque wherever they want, and the ppl have a right to protest if they disagree. My personal issue is with their seeming lack of tact and concern for the emotions their decision has obviously stirred up. Most people wouldn't do something in a place where that action is deemed unacceptable. Plus, as i stated before, i also agree with Pat condells reasons.
@HPGWellscraft Unfortunately there rights supersede anyone including your or my feelings towards it. Not to say your personal issue isn't valid, it is, it's just not a valid point to protest the mosque. I am unfamiliar with Pat condell, or his reasons on the matter, so again i can't really comment on them. :p But i disagree we are talking about rights, it's only through talking about them can we delve further into the issue.
@MrPyrulen You are correct, sir. And it is about rights, i just meant that everyones rights are already clearly defined, it's just getting the two groups to come to a consensus. But you will find Pat Condells argument against the Mosque in the side bar ; No mosque at Ground Zero. Give it a watch and tell me what you think. :)
@HPGWellscraft I'll give it a watch now, everyone's rights may be clearly defined, but it's sad that we still get people thinking that they have the right to mandate other peoples rights for there own personal convictions.
Thanks for the intellectually honest discussion btw.
@MrPyrulen And i thank you for the great discussion as well. I guess I'm a masochist because despite the fact that I'm not as intelligent or learned as most of the commenters here i can't help but leave a comment myself. I think i need help. LoLz
@HPGWellscraft Initial response, it's nice to see some well thought out opposition to this problem. To believe everything this guy says is true as i haven't fact checked. It certainly makes it feel like there must be another solution than simple tolerance. I mean i have no love for Islam, the indoctrinated drones of it's practitioners or the blatant destructive force of it's ideology, but i feel that way about all religions. So it's still difficult for me to let personal feelings
@HPGWellscraft get in the way of people's rights. I still think they have the right to put it up but i agree that everyone has the right to despise them for it. Not to say that it should be violent or anything but if the Islamic community wants to actively strive to perpetuate acts that cause them to be condemned for it, then they lose all opportunity to cry oppression or censorship when people protest and rally against them. I have no sympathy for them in that regard.
@MrPyrulen Yeah, love him or hate him, at least he's well educated and has well thought out arguments. And i agree with everything else you said as well. And i have no sympathy in that regard as well. I guess where we differ is that you wouldn't protest because, obviously, they have the right to put their mosque there. And i would protest because while they may have the right, that doesn't necessarily mean they should. It would be like Westboro building a church next to a bombed abortion clinic.
@HPGWellscraft Not saying i wouldn't protest, because well, it's there right, i can't tell them not to build a mosque there. and of-course if it was properly funded then that's fine to. I think given the controversy why wouldn't you chose another location unless you really didn't give a shit about the repercussions of your actions. I assert again its a complicated issue, and i don't know what the state of it atm, but it's an issue that doesn't have to be an issue.
@MrPyrulen Yeah, it definitely doesn't need to be an issue. When is it supposed to open? It was supposed to open September 11th so I'm guessing it's open by now.
@HPGWellscraft so i guess then it definitely isn't a issue at-least not anymore :p If there's anything to be certain of it's that there are definitely going to be more issues like this in the future. I hope we can continue moving towards a secular society. where religion is strictly a private practice.
@HPGWellscraft What atheist is against putting crosses on the road? I'm not saying this to insult you btw, but are you still in junior high, because atheists of that age are the only ones I could see who would have so little maturity as to protest such a thing. Of course I also don't protest the ten commandments being on courts, only because I see it the same way I would see a copy of Hammurabi's Code at a court. An example of ancient law.
@UltimaWeaponDeux Not to steal a response or anything, but i assume he won't point to any specific atheist. Rather given the range and scope of those professing themselves atheist, it is of little stretch of the imagination to imagine people so vehemently opposed to religion whether justifiably so or not condemning all public displays of any religious origin. But i agree with you, that such a act would be one of childish boar-headed immaturity.
@UltimaWeaponDeux Not insulted at all. :) But Mr Pyrulen is correct. I cannot actually point out a specific atheist as the case im thinking of was years ago and the names long forgotten, so i concede that this may invalid that argument. But the ten commandments is still valid. and the whole thing did and does seem a little immature, but no, i am not in high school. lolz Thx, btw, i try to remain civilized at all times. But the current WoW vs SWTOR debate on youtube makes it hard. Lmao! :P
@MrPyrulenAgreed. Agreed. like you, i'm no expert in islam, but anytime state laws mimic church laws it turns out disastrous. Salem witch trials anyone?
@HPGWellscraft We'll exactly, the thing is we are still living in a world where alot of what goes on around us in government and other supposedly secular institutions aern't governed as such. There is to much respect afforded to religion in my opinion, and in the case of Islam and my limited understanding of it, the idea of religious doctrine superseding secular law, should be criminal. And any action taken towards it should be swiftly shut down.
@MrPyrulen Agreed, and i believe in all civilized societies it is shut down quite swiftly. Even when i was religious i understood that biblical ideology should not be legislation. Then you have ppl being put in jail for cheating and coveting. And that makes no sense, but is exactly how many radical islamist nations are being run. (yes i said radical :P )
@HPGWellscraft And rightly so, it is radical, at least in contrast to the democracy that we live in, and while democracy has it's own issue's its a far better system of government than anything the Islamic world is run by.
@MrPyrulen No worries about the late replies. Youtubes "improvements" have severly hampered my ability to hold conversations and debates, maybe its part of their nefarious schemes. lolz
And as to the Brits, again, no matter how bad the educational system is, you can't argue that the second generation, raised and educated in the country, is socially more accepted and economically more likely to prosper than the first generation. But we see a higher radicalization in the second Generation. This does not make sense in a socio-economic context. It only makes sense in a religious context. Religious groups target the youth and indoctrinate them.
First off, it is not like there was a market you could stifle in terrorism. It's not like there was a 100 slot limitation for terrorism and hamas just bought all of them up.
There is nothing prohibiting a new Christian terrorist organization appearing in Palestine but it does not happen. And such an oragnization can be small. The RAF, a German group in the 70s, had a dozen members.
And you don't need an organization. The Utah bomber, that guy in Sweden, Lee Harvey Oswald,...
Another poll says that in Turkey, the most liberal muslim country, 4% of the population support suicide bombings targeting civilians in defense of the faith. Do you believe that there are 10 million Americans who would support that? In other Muslim countries those numbers were up to 8 times higher. The most radical countries refused to allow the poll.
I invite you to watch Sam Harris "Islam Is Not a Religion of Peace" and make a video about it. I'm very interested in your opinion.
@PeterK1984 I'd argue that all monotheistic religions (at least) are equal in their potential for genocide mistreatment of female and BS wars to name a few. Now it's true that the majority of Muslim states and their original nationals are in a "dark age" like state. Poverty, socio-political status are the main drive for this. Not directly religion.
All in all no (monotheistic) religion is one of peace. That's why they can, were, are and will so easily be used for violence.
@assalane While I agree that all religions have a potential for violence, not all live up to it. The Christian population in Palestine is 8% but exactly 0% of the terrorism committed by Palestinians is committed by Christians.
And not everything is socioeconomic. Socioeconomic reasons do not explain why such a high percentage of British muslims support killing of Apostates and terrorism. Poland has the same unemployment and the same poverty rate as Saudi Arabia but not of the support for terror
@PeterK1984 Your next contention is about British Muslims. You forget to mention that the majority of them are early immigrant, and don't (yet) enjoy the same social status then "natives". A fair comparison would have been to discriminate the studies based on Muslims living in the ghetto, and successful Muslims.
You then compare Poland and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is not a Democratic country, and access to information there is strictly monitored, so then again not a fair comparison.
@assalane You are wrong as to the Brits. The poll of British Muslims was done to second generation Muslims in a country with free public education and all the opportunities. I am a second generation immigrant and there is no oppression going on. But even if your argument had any merit it would mean that the first generation, who was discriminated against, would be even more radical. And they are not. The polls show that the first generation is less supportive of terror.
And the poorest and worst educated places on this planet, the sums of Brazil, produce 0 terrorism.
If you look who fuels terrorist attacks, it is not the poor and oppressed. It is the the Saudi royalty, some of the richest people on this planet. Can you imagine Bill gates teaming up with Donald Trump and funding suicide bombings against catholics in southern Italy?
Socioeconomic reasons play a part but on their own they are an insufficient explanation for the violence in the Muslim world
@PeterK1984 You make many unfounded assertions that are demonstrably false.
First you say that not all religion live up to violence. You are forgetting all christian terrorist group and all violence and abuses linked to Christians.
You then say Palestinians are 8% Christian and do not engage in terrorism. You are committing a fallacy here. This particular country is dominated by Islamist terrorist groups so It'd have been strange that you'd hear about christian terrorists in the news there.
Christian terrorists. A short google search shows the IRA and a couple of groups who managed to kill some 50 people over the last 5 years. Most of them in targeted assassinations. It is not the same as blowing up buses.
And if the 8% of Christian Palestinians were as active as the muslims they would commit 8% of the attacks. And you would hear of that. But it simply does not happen. Even if they committed 2% it would not go unnoticed.
@PeterK1984 (3rd and final part). You finally speak about Brazil. There I'd strongly disagree. Organizations like the Cartel are highly religious and while they don't do global terrorism in the same fashion then Muslims, they are extremely violent.
The poor and oppressed don't fuel terrorism, granted. But where do you think they recruit from? Largely from Europeans ghettos, Palestine and other fucked up parts of the world. The market is there, and religion is the tool used to appeal to them.
@assalane As to the cartells, those are Christians AND criminals but they are not motivated by religion, they are motivated by money. You don't see cartel bosses release videos which show their intention to kill all protestants. And you don't see the cartels recruit kids from the slums to blow up protestant churches.
And the terrorists recruit from colleges and secondary schools. Look at the biographies of the 9/11 highjackers. Educated in the west, wealthy, college degrees, middle class...
@PeterK1984 I hate the 500 limit too :(. I'm not arguing about the number of death. My main argument is that all monotheistic religion have a potential for violence, and did and do live up to it. Now, why Islam is more of a problem then others atm is of course open for debate: what makes Muslims tap into that potential more globally? After all if all religions have this potential why does a disparity exist between Muslim and christian today for example?
@PeterK1984 As for the Palestinians, the terrorist organizations there are Islamist. They effectively stifle the market. It's difficult for an individual to perform an act of terrorism without the backing of an organization. It never happen
I'm not entirely sure for brits, but if it's the same as in France, the free public education is not perfect. You can actually see a big difference between "metro" and "ghetto" schools. You'd also notice that those successful come from successful families.
@PeterK1984 There is thus a disparity that exist between immigrant and nationals. I don't have the figures, I'm only talking from experience. When a group of people is isolated from the rest of the society, radicalization occur. It does not even have to be an active ostracization.
There is also the effect of age, like you said the 1st generation is often more tolerant than the 2nd, in France too. This is another effect that strongly suggest a social effect toward radicalization
I do agree with you that Park 51 should not be opposed and they should be free to practice their religion.
At the same time I disagree with you that all religions are equal. Islam seems to have generally more radicals. A poll in the UK showed that over 20% of Muslims aged 16-24 in the UK thought that leaving Islam should be punishable by death. Can you imagine this many Christians or Jews believing something like that?
Please lady.You are arrogant and are no patriot... We are Americans and it is about time you left wing nuts stop all of his peace at any price... This girl needs to grow up and lower her nose so she can take in some oxygen for her pea brain.
Commentator is a Islamist militant sympathizer who is against freedom of speech of
American citizens protesting the mosque being built on the site of victims of islamist terrorism. Her ridicule and personal attacks on the protestors is pathetic.
@ShaliniBhaloo BUT IT ISN'T A FRICKING MOSQUE. NOR IS IT ON GROUND ZERO. You all need to understand that. Its a community centre, which includes some prayer facilities. And it just happens to be in the same neighbourhood.
@LorryTheUltraTory - your ignorance is showing again. Anyone can be American regardless of religious faith. I know that bothers morons like you, but there it is. Deal with it.
@eclecticinfidel Yes and No, if you wear the damn veil in 100 degree weather, where no one can see anything but your eyes, than shes right, those muslims arent american. american muslims live a normal every day life.
@LorryTheUltraTory Why is that? If it's because you assume muslim americans are immigrants, the majority of them were Born in the USA (no pun intended). Would you say the same thing about 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants from Germany?
What if your ancestors have been in the country for centuries, and you convert to Islam. Does becoming a muslim mean you renounce your citizenship?
I support the building of the community centre/mosque. So long as whomever responsible is abiding by the city and State laws I don't see a problem.
Sharia though, Sharia courts are just bad news. We have marriage, divorce, and penal laws. We have an established legal system. Those laws and that system is not complemented by seperate, religious courts, the operating manuals of which are archaic, and patently inferior.
Adherents at odds with a religion won't find respite in a court governed by it.
What is actually a Good Time to you, (the kind that may include relaxation, smiles and authentic laughter, not the mocking or insulting laughs)? You're way too beautiful to suffer all the time over what's right and what's wrong. But, you're commitment, intelligence and integrity are amirable.
the masjid community center project is too close to ground zero.
of all places, why only two blocks away from the sight?
ground zero is a memorial ground, and doesn't need a constant reminder of the threat. and yes, islam is a threat. - nearly 84% oppose this project. yet, these two groups behind this project can't care less of whom they offend. islamization is very real, and all with soon learn the threat of having islam as their immediate neighbor. this plan is very intentional.
That is just close minded and ridiculous. By no means is Islam itself a threat, some Islamic radicals may be dangerous, but the average Muslim generally has absolutely no desire to topple the U.S. in any way. The location of the community center shouldn't matter since a religion did not kill those people, radicals did.
@Oflionsandnemeans You are absolutely oblivious if you think "by no means is Islam itself a threat".
Don't tell me that I am the one who is ignorant. You do not know Islam. I was raised a Muslim. You must be unaware that most Imams preach extremism. There is not such thing as a moderate Islam. ALL Muslims respect Shari'a. Did you see any Muslims protesting with fellow Americans after 9/11!? No.
Muslims have an intention in this world. Recognize it.
The New York accent is fucking annoying. All I could hear was I load of stereotypical New York accents clamorously berating one another, like a bunch of mentally handicapped people throwing a shit fit over some spilled milk. I think a Mosque should be built right on the Twin Towers site, just to annoy of all these patriotic, fat Americans. Also what's with all the muggles and mud bloods? I saw too many darkies in this video, not enough light for my liking.
No mosque should be built at all. But if your going to build it do not build it at the 9/11 site. It is an insult we need to stop this, and its a shame that when people speak out against it their labled as bigots and hatemorgers.
Are you guys fucking nuts? I live in Europe, and that not the old continent as you guys know it, it's " the old fucked continent " , we have suffered already enough from islamisation that we are all fearing that the European culture will be lost soon...
Think about it my American friends, cose this is not a joke
Wow I can't believe people are still stupid enough to think you can bring down 3 buildings in freefall in their own footprint by hitting them with planes! Must be the same dumbshits that think the federal reserve is part of the federal government! Ohh for for those same retards { Osama has been dead for years!) Look at the actor who is in the vids they claim as Osama watching tv. check out the shape of his ears( rounded) compared to Osama's pictures ( pointed) ahhhdahh!! sheep!
How do otherwise intelligent atheists on Youtube say such stupid things when it comes to Islam?
You CANNOT compare Islam to Christianity in terms of theiur approach to religous text. Islam is at a different stage in terms of it's approach to scripture. That the Quran is the innerant, literal word of god is the standard in the Muslim world. It's not an extremist position. It's the almost universal position.
Among Christians, however, there isn't the same emphasis on literalism etc.
Seriously are you kidding me this girl puts this video up, goes to a protest where freedom of speech is allowed and asks random people why there against a mosque on ground zero. Umm excuse me for asking but does she know how many people lost their lives on 911. Building a mosque on ground zero in my oppinion is just another way to provoke the american people and famillys whos hearts were broken. Oh and then she comments on christianity saying it supports slavery......... Read the bible then talk
Even though I'm agnostic and a fervent anti religeonist, I also have fouund myself in the position of defending the " ground zero mosque ". A total misnomer since it's not even visible from ground zero. AS much as I despise religeon, if christians coud put a church there then muslims should have the same right. Period end of story
Peach, first I want to say that I love you. Keep on keeping it real, please? That said, here's something else these anti-Ground Zero Mosque fools refuse to look at. Timothy McVey was a Christian and from most accounts, a fundamentalist one. How many people have protested the building of Christian churches near the former Murrah building in Oklahoma City? That was ground zero for the worst terrorist attack America suffered prior to 9/11/2001. Anyway, you keep fighting the good fight, Peach!
I'll admit... my first thought about the "building a mosque at ground zero" situation was that it seemed like a final Islamic "screw you buddy"; something like figuratively planting a banner over corpses of a slain enemy, sneering all the while.
But as you smartly illustrate, the people involved with the community center are ordinary Americans who happen to be muslim, and not malicious Taliban invaders.
basmithtx 4 days ago
Being American is more than just "slithering out of a mothers womb on American soil". It is a state of being that transcends just being born here, which you are clearly testament too.
95mklovin 2 weeks ago
How in the WORLD do you deal with people like Purple Woman? I would have been ripping my hair out. Or hers.
Skyfyre2007 1 month ago
@Skyfyre2007 I would have just given her a good old slap in the face.
FreakAlchemist 1 month ago in playlist More videos from xxxThePeachxxx
Reading back through my comments, I noticed I skiped #5. Maybe I AM one of those crazies!!!!!!!!!! LOL
fyrefighter814 1 month ago
The only thing you got right is that I am from West Virginia, where we KNOW right from wrong, and stand up for what is right. Oh...and for the record, no offense taken at the "big burly ape" comments. And I am PROUD of my son for taking the initiate, with NO prompting from me to stand for what is right, and against what is wrong. Too bad more people don't do the same.
fyrefighter814 1 month ago
6. With all of the completely innacurate statements that you make in just a few seconds of this video, it completely ruins your credibility on anything that you say in the rest of the video. You should take lessons on reporting. Googling my name and finding that I am associated with a TEA Party does not mean I was there with the TEA Party. I am also a firefighter and paramedic. Does that mean that I brought my ambulance with me? No...we rode my Harley.
fyrefighter814 1 month ago
I am the "Big Burly Ape" with my son, who you make comments about. First, let me correct your MANY mistakes. 1. I was not there with any TEA Party. I was with the 9/11 motorcycle ride. 2. "Thats the media for you" What does the media have to do with this? 3. "Attracting crazies" I am "crazy for having an opinion and for standing up for what I think is right? 4. "pulled his young son into the fray" I did not "pull" him into anything. He stood up for what is right on his own.
fyrefighter814 1 month ago
she'll put you finger in my face
20jandrews 2 months ago
wth? This guy is protesting about sharia law even though he doesn't know what it is?
straighter100 2 months ago
One can only hope, and i think it's inevitable. The more science is able to explain the less room there is in the universe for a god. But then maybe they'll start worshiping numbers or something. idk. :/
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
I wish smart people like you were in control.
NecrosHun06 2 months ago
We should herd and separate all the right wingers and christian fundies into one side of the nation, and all the liberal and religiously free people into the other side (which would obviously include all the scientists, doctors etc), and see what happens after a hundred years or so. I am willing to bet that the right winger side would deteriorate into a third world country as they rain dance and pray their way into poverty, while the left wing side would progress and bloom.
Judicial78 2 months ago
The only person with good point was the woman speaking of potential future oppression on women.. I don't see it getting that far though, it's a pseudo community center nothing crazy...
wexarexthexStorm 2 months ago
Man, judging by that screeching harpy in purple, this issue seems waaaaay to emotional to have any sort of rational discourse.
Akira625 2 months ago
@Akira625 i know yeah 5:26 fuck man ever heard of the term death stare? :/
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen Lmao @ death stare. I know right!
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
Sharia law is whatever Muslims want to interpret most of it as being. I have Islamic friends who interpret it pretty moderately.
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@MrNicMachiavelli when I say "most" I mean most Muslims don't eat pork or drink. Sharia law is as loosely defined as all religious law.
MrNicMachiavelli 2 months ago
@MrNicMachiavelli Thats fine for them, aslong as it stays as a flexible interpretative system, akin to some of the bibles teachings i suppose. The only major concern i have is if they try implementing, adhering others or practicing sharia law as if it actually was lawful.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
I like the idea of protesting at mosque's, but this is not how I would do it. Any protest I would join would have to realize that most muslims, like most christians are good people trying to live the best lives possible.
12leenelson 2 months ago
"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion." -Steven Weinberg
TheCompany0fwolves 2 months ago
religion is poison
dbqdawg 2 months ago
The moment this bogotted cow starts to shout at you, she has lost.
Reasons are too many to name but I think we all know most of them.
Its a shame, but, this is typical of so many ignorant buffoons just like her.
I applaude you for keeping your cool TBH!
FatRakoon 2 months ago
"You are a big dumb loud person"
Said the idiot screaming in your ear because the logical fallacy "guilt by association" is... umm... apparently not a fallacy anymore...
sonic8005 2 months ago
"I said that MOST of the country's major problems are caused or aggravated by religion."
Again, that was my point. You keep saying "problems" whether some or all are caused by religion. I'm saying "no" they're caused by bad people doing bad things. If you want to insult someone then insult the idiots themselves, not their religion.
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92
If that "recipe" is demonstrably rotten, I surely will say that it is rotten. No equivocations are needed here.
Wrath0fKhan 2 months ago
@trekfan92 "I'm saying "no" they're caused by bad people doing bad things."
You seriously are beginning to bore me, because nothing you are saying is any kind of actual refutation of my statements. Yes, problems are caused by "bad people doing bad things," if you are so intent on being as simplistic as possible. The problem is, a lot of those "bad people doing bad things" find justification FROM THEIR RELIGION. Does that mean that ALL religious people behave this way? No, and I never said so.
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
Blah,you must have alot of patience to deal with those loud mouth jack asses.
yes this is a re-write i'm a guilty misspeller :P I just love it when you check them and they stand ther with a stupid look on their face's.
mgenetiano 2 months ago
Comment removed
mgenetiano 2 months ago
wow your hot. oh yeah time to watch video :P
mgenetiano 2 months ago
Guilt by Association, also known as the Association Fallacy. I think that pretty much says all that needs to be said.
TarvisMD 2 months ago
Religion has not caused the world harsh problems. If so then every religious person would be a bad person. Some of the coolest people I know are religious. Religion is not the problem, attitude is the problem. Don't attack people for their religious beliefs, attack their lousy attitude if they have it. Their religious affiliation is irrelevant.
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92 "Religion has not caused the world harsh problems. If so then every religious person would be a bad person"
That's a ridiculous argument. That's like saying "Smoking doesn't cause lung cancer. If it did, then everyone who smokes would have lung cancer."
The point I made is that most of the country's major problems -- the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, denying civil rights to homosexuals, terrorist attacks -- are caused by morons obeying their god and respective religions.
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
@xxxThePeachxxx I agree, religion being used as a justification for the immoral acts of humans is one of the most profoundly accepted dangers of human ignorance. The fact that a great majority of us can sit by and even willfully accept the perpetuation of moral evils simply because they are posited to the exercise of some religion. And that under the pretense that everything whether good or bad must be respected equally and therefore tolerated is fucking moronic.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@xxxThePeachxxx Actually, your analogy doesn't quite work. I'm an atheist and I can still safely agree with trefkan's comments on religion. I'm sure I can find plenty of atheists who do horrible things. And history has shown that as well. A knife can be used to smear butter on a bagel or stab someone to death. It's up to the person to choose how to use it. The OSTENSIBLE motives of the Taliban are based in religion- but it's really about politics and jealousy.
pawnstar3 2 months ago
@pawnstar3 "I'm an atheist and I can still safely agree with trefkan's comments on religion. I'm sure I can find plenty of atheists who do horrible things."
Well, that's my point entirely. He made the statement that if religion wasn't the cause of so many problems, then all religious people would be bad. And seeing as how I never said nor implied that I think all religious people ARE bad, his argument false presumes my position, and my analogy is valid.
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
@xxxThePeachxxx The implication of your analogy was that because SOME people do bad things because of religion then it needs to be stopped. And then you made your smoking analogy. The reason the analogy is bad is because smoking is a direct cause of cancer. Religion in and of itself is not a direct cause of evil, any more than atheism could be. Some modern murderers have cited 'American Psycho' as inspirational - should we ban that book as well?
pawnstar3 2 months ago
@pawnstar3 lol I've given up. She won't listen. She keeps saying not all religious people are bad, which is fine but then she keeps saying bad religious people do bad things because of motivation from their religion. That's weird because that's like saying a gun forced itself into someone's hand and some how forced the person to pull the trigger to murder someone. By saying that she's still attacking the association, not the individual.
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92 Yeah I'm giving her opportunities to clarify her argument and she only keeps saying the same thing over and over, not realizing that it doesn't make sense.
pawnstar3 2 months ago
@pawnstar3 "The implication of your analogy was that because SOME people do bad things because of religion then it needs to be stopped"
Uh no, it wasn't, and it's not my problem that that is what you took away from it. I was using the analogy that states that smoking has a strong correlation to lung cancer, even though not all people who smoke develop lung cancer. When religious people fervently follow the edicts of their gods, this has a strong correlation to causing major problems, (etc)
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
@pawnstar3 such as discrimination against homosexuals, terrorist attacks, the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Republican line-up for President, etc. It appears that you and the trekkie can't seem to understand this concept. But if you both are truly that simple, then let me spell it out for you: I don't believe that religion CAUSES people to behave badly, nor do I believe that all religious people are bad. But religion CAN exasperate bad behavior by providing a "justification" for it.
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
@xxxThePeachxxx Guess what? anything COULD cause bad behavior - does that mean we should eradicate everything then? That's such a simple-minded approach to it. People can justify their actions in any number of ways? Let me ask you this again? Should 'American Psycho' be banned because it inspired some murderers to kill people. I'm an atheist and what I usually hate about religious people is how dogmatic they are - but so are certain atheists such as yourself.
pawnstar3 2 months ago
@xxxThePeachxxx wow I think I lost some respect for you. I really thought you were smarter than that. Again I'll say Religion is not the problem, Attitude is the problem. This is America, guilt by association does not apply here. The problems of this world were caused by idiots abusing their religion for their own personal needs. What about the good people that are religious? Are they horrible too. You're only focusing on the negative. So cut the crap.
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92 It doesn't matter that there are a few good people that are religious. Basically if you want to believe that the reason you are a good person is your religion, go right ahead. I think that detracts from your own worth, but that's just me. I'd rather be a good person because of my own reasons. However not everyone is as rational as you might be. Religion does cause hatred. Religion does cause problems. Period. Just like it causes good things as well.
UltimaWeaponDeux 2 months ago
@UltimaWeaponDeux You're right. When i was going to church i stood against things that i really didn't have a problem with, but because i thought god was against them, and i wanted to please god, i stood against them to. Quite embarrassing, really. :(
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@trekfan92 We're you paying any attention whatsoever to what she was saying? Near the end of her video she clearly stated "Guilt by association is BS." (14:33) In fact that was the entire fucking point she was trying to make in her video ya moron. She was saying that not all muslims by association are crazy people who will kill in the name of their religion just because the 9/11 hijackers were muslims who killed and terrorized many people for the same reason.
luxord2654 2 months ago
@luxord2654 yes I know that's what she said. I was replying to her comment, not her video dude. Pay attention to what I was talking about. She says not all muslims are bad, but then she tells me that religion causes all the world's problems. She just contradicted herself.
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92 "She says not all muslims are bad, but then she tells me that religion causes all the world's problems. She just contradicted herself."
No, you just misquoted me. I never said that "all the world's problems" were caused by religion. I said that MOST of the country's major problems are caused or aggravated by religion. And I gave a few examples. At no point in my comments or my video (if you even bothered to watch it entirely) did I say or imply that all religious people were bad.
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
@trekfan92 She even said the same thing about Christians in the video! (3:28) Pay more attention next time to what she is saying. Yes, she does think that religion is a major issue that causes ignorance and hatred. But the point she was making with this video is that that does not make all religious people by association, Muslims or Christians alike, completely insane killing machines.
luxord2654 2 months ago
@luxord2654 Again I already listened to what she said. Again I was replying to her comment. And again by saying religion is a major cause of problems she is contradicting herself. Religion isn't the problem, attitude is the problem. Sounds like you're the one who should pay attention.
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92 Where do you think those attitudes come from?
luxord2654 2 months ago
@trekfan92 "wow I think I lost some respect for you"
Wow, I think I don't care.
"Again I'll say Religion is not the problem, Attitude is the problem"
Some people's attitudes are influence, if not exasperated, by their religious doctrine. Without such nonsense filling their heads, they'd be more inclined to consider their misgivings.
"The problems of this world were caused by idiots abusing their religion for their own personal needs."
That's exactly what I said.
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
@xxxThePeachxxx "Some people's attitudes are influence, if not exasperated, by their religious doctrine. Without such nonsense filling their heads, they'd be more inclined to consider their misgivings."
All things around you influence your attitude, but who governs your attitude? You do. You can't use religion or anything else as an excuse to blame someone. You blame the individual, not their affiliation.
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92 "You can't use religion or anything else as an excuse to blame someone. You blame the individual, not their affiliation."
Are you just on not only straw-manning me, but even repeating my very arguments stated in my video? If I bought into guilt by association, then I'd be denouncing all religious people for the atrocities that religion has inspired, but I do not. However, turning a blind eye to the fact that religion HAS motivated people to do horrible things is just as dishonest.
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
Btw, i noticed in several of your video's you tell people not to waste your time with this argument or that argument. THis is odd to me. It's like you really don't want to accept ANY argument, or perhaps only pre-approved arguments. :/
HPGWellscraft 3 months ago in playlist Liked
@HPGWellscraft I tried to like your comments, but for some reason likes are disabled ;)
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92 Thanks dood. Likes may be disabled, but youtube has been rather wonky these last few days.
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft right now they're able to like on other vids. I was wondering if she disabled them or something. You're right though, I hate how youtube keeps changing.
trekfan92 2 months ago
@trekfan92 Yeah, i've had trouble keeping up, wondering if it was me or the computer i'm on or something. Cuz it went back and forth. Wish i could just keep the old one. oh well. She prolly did disable likes, though she doesn't really seem the type, and i don't know what purpose that would serve anyway. :/
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft I disable comment ratings on all of my videos to keep unpopular comments from being down-rated into oblivion.
xxxThePeachxxx 2 months ago
@xxxThePeachxxx Oh, that actually makes sense, and is also very commendable. Thank you. :)
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
How can Atheists pitch a fit every-time they see a cross on the side of the road where a person died in a car wreck or every time they see the ten commandments, but be perfectly fine with an "Islamic community center" being constructed as close as possible to Ground Zero? The center is, according to islam, a symbol of it's victory over America and of Americas submission to Islam. If it's no big deal, then why not just move it somewhere else instead of causing a riot? Yes i do watch Pat Condell.
HPGWellscraft 3 months ago in playlist Liked
@HPGWellscraft These are two very separate issues, please do not paint a black and white stroke over them as if they are the same.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen ok, but which two issues? I'm not trolling, it's just that i made several comments and i don't know which one you're referring to. Since facebook stopped connecting comments with replies (via inbox) its really difficult to hold a conversation over the course of several days. :/
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft yeah nah it's ok i completely understand :) you said that atheists complaining about the public displays of crosses and the ten commandments, but being perfectly fine with a Islamic community center being constructed near ground zero.
Now i'm not america so ten years on 9/11 isn't as emotionally impacting on me. But the freedom to erect a communal gathering place much like any christian based center is a separate issue to the wrongful
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft place of items of worship in places like schools and other secular institutions. I don't mind the putting of crosses by sites of car accidents and i would disagree with any atheist that did, ( again the difficulty with condemning atheistic beliefs is there are no rigid structure for them each atheists beliefs of there own interpretation and application of logic, we just all agree there is no god.)
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen Ok, you're saying (if i'm understanding you correctly) that building a gathering place for adherents of a particular belief system is different than having those symbols displayed in secular places. And i suppose this is true to a point. But i think they are related in pple's reactions to them, especially when those reactions are over-reactions. Because Athiest do rage when they see crosses and ten commandments, and its just seems odd to me when they say this is ok.
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft Well you can't apply the reactions of some to that of all of us. Its appropriate to get mad when we see a violation of what is supposed to be a secular institution because religion already infests area's of government it has no place in. as i said i would agree with you that it's wrong to condemn someone for practicing there religion or indeed placing a cross next to a road where someone was killed. It doesn't bother me more than my concern for there families.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen And i know they're calling it a "community center" but really whatever you call it it's undoubtedly going to be a place of worship, and i think it's also important to see where the funding for the center is coming from, as well as the Islamic history and tradition of erecting these centers/buildings in places they deem to have "conquered". I know The Peach doesn't really agree with Pat Condell on many issues, but i think i gotta side with Pat on this one. :/
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft I also agree entirely, it's important to look at this issue in depth when i say i think it's right that muslims should be afforded the same rights as a christian group would doesn't mean im saying we don't have to look into what exactly they are proposing. I would say the same for any religion. I am a outsider to this issue i live in australia, but i have no problem with them erecting a center of there own, it depends ofcourse on the function of the center.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft For instance I strongly disagree with anyone that would propose the construction of Sharia law or a sharia court, for the processing of a Islamic people to be legally accountable based on religious beliefs. I detest that part of Islam, perhaps i just don't have a concrete understanding but the self government of Islam and sharia law should never overrule the secular government. Again though i admit to having a limited understanding of it.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen I hope you didn't misunderstand me, i actually have no problem with them putting crosses by the road, but that seemed the most applicable example as ive seen it before and know most atheists are against it. But like you, my concern is for the families.Agreed. And i feel like in Amercia all religious groups are treated equally, but remember when that preacher was going to burn the Quran, then decided against it because of the hostility? Why can't these ppl make that same decision?
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft no misunderstanding, i was just agreeing with you on that point. I was simply referring to your claim that other atheists complain about it, which im ok with they can complain i don't agree with them but that doesn't mean i'll try to shut them up because we happen to fall under the same categorical definition in respect to our views on a supreme being. I don't recall that, I guess i would have to say that people rights are contingent on what offends others.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft If that preacher hesitated because he knew that there would be an insane backlash of violence form the Islamic world then that's his decision. It doesn't affect his rights to do as he pleases ( at least not as far as i know). The thing here is just that there isn't that concern on the other side, whether or not there should be isn't a question i can answer. There is no reason for potential offense to encroach on someone else s rights.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen Indeed, but how often do Muslims encroach on others right when they depict Mohammed unfavorably? It just seems a little one sided that they demand so much more respect then they are willing to give.
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft I agree it's bullshit that such double standards exist, and i agree i should be able to draw a stick figure of Muhammad for shits and giggles and indeed i have that right. But i don't think the answer to such a double standard is to then turn around and say, well now you don't have rights!, instead we should be fighting against there censorship. we tolerate there belief, but we don't regulate peoples freedom of expression based on their beliefs.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen That absolutely true, and i agree 100%. But we're not talking rights. Their rights are already quite clear. The muslims can put a mosque wherever they want, and the ppl have a right to protest if they disagree. My personal issue is with their seeming lack of tact and concern for the emotions their decision has obviously stirred up. Most people wouldn't do something in a place where that action is deemed unacceptable. Plus, as i stated before, i also agree with Pat condells reasons.
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft Unfortunately there rights supersede anyone including your or my feelings towards it. Not to say your personal issue isn't valid, it is, it's just not a valid point to protest the mosque. I am unfamiliar with Pat condell, or his reasons on the matter, so again i can't really comment on them. :p But i disagree we are talking about rights, it's only through talking about them can we delve further into the issue.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen You are correct, sir. And it is about rights, i just meant that everyones rights are already clearly defined, it's just getting the two groups to come to a consensus. But you will find Pat Condells argument against the Mosque in the side bar ; No mosque at Ground Zero. Give it a watch and tell me what you think. :)
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft I'll give it a watch now, everyone's rights may be clearly defined, but it's sad that we still get people thinking that they have the right to mandate other peoples rights for there own personal convictions.
Thanks for the intellectually honest discussion btw.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen And i thank you for the great discussion as well. I guess I'm a masochist because despite the fact that I'm not as intelligent or learned as most of the commenters here i can't help but leave a comment myself. I think i need help. LoLz
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft Initial response, it's nice to see some well thought out opposition to this problem. To believe everything this guy says is true as i haven't fact checked. It certainly makes it feel like there must be another solution than simple tolerance. I mean i have no love for Islam, the indoctrinated drones of it's practitioners or the blatant destructive force of it's ideology, but i feel that way about all religions. So it's still difficult for me to let personal feelings
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft get in the way of people's rights. I still think they have the right to put it up but i agree that everyone has the right to despise them for it. Not to say that it should be violent or anything but if the Islamic community wants to actively strive to perpetuate acts that cause them to be condemned for it, then they lose all opportunity to cry oppression or censorship when people protest and rally against them. I have no sympathy for them in that regard.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen Yeah, love him or hate him, at least he's well educated and has well thought out arguments. And i agree with everything else you said as well. And i have no sympathy in that regard as well. I guess where we differ is that you wouldn't protest because, obviously, they have the right to put their mosque there. And i would protest because while they may have the right, that doesn't necessarily mean they should. It would be like Westboro building a church next to a bombed abortion clinic.
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft Not saying i wouldn't protest, because well, it's there right, i can't tell them not to build a mosque there. and of-course if it was properly funded then that's fine to. I think given the controversy why wouldn't you chose another location unless you really didn't give a shit about the repercussions of your actions. I assert again its a complicated issue, and i don't know what the state of it atm, but it's an issue that doesn't have to be an issue.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen Yeah, it definitely doesn't need to be an issue. When is it supposed to open? It was supposed to open September 11th so I'm guessing it's open by now.
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft so i guess then it definitely isn't a issue at-least not anymore :p If there's anything to be certain of it's that there are definitely going to be more issues like this in the future. I hope we can continue moving towards a secular society. where religion is strictly a private practice.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
Comment removed
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@HPGWellscraft
So if those advocating the mosque expect the fairness of others to respect there 'man' given rights then they have to respect this.
O
/|\
/ \
Muhammad.
But i doubt you'll see that anytime soon.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft What atheist is against putting crosses on the road? I'm not saying this to insult you btw, but are you still in junior high, because atheists of that age are the only ones I could see who would have so little maturity as to protest such a thing. Of course I also don't protest the ten commandments being on courts, only because I see it the same way I would see a copy of Hammurabi's Code at a court. An example of ancient law.
Nice to see a civilized discussion here btw.
UltimaWeaponDeux 2 months ago
@UltimaWeaponDeux Not to steal a response or anything, but i assume he won't point to any specific atheist. Rather given the range and scope of those professing themselves atheist, it is of little stretch of the imagination to imagine people so vehemently opposed to religion whether justifiably so or not condemning all public displays of any religious origin. But i agree with you, that such a act would be one of childish boar-headed immaturity.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@UltimaWeaponDeux Not insulted at all. :) But Mr Pyrulen is correct. I cannot actually point out a specific atheist as the case im thinking of was years ago and the names long forgotten, so i concede that this may invalid that argument. But the ten commandments is still valid. and the whole thing did and does seem a little immature, but no, i am not in high school. lolz Thx, btw, i try to remain civilized at all times. But the current WoW vs SWTOR debate on youtube makes it hard. Lmao! :P
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@MrPyrulenAgreed. Agreed. like you, i'm no expert in islam, but anytime state laws mimic church laws it turns out disastrous. Salem witch trials anyone?
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft We'll exactly, the thing is we are still living in a world where alot of what goes on around us in government and other supposedly secular institutions aern't governed as such. There is to much respect afforded to religion in my opinion, and in the case of Islam and my limited understanding of it, the idea of religious doctrine superseding secular law, should be criminal. And any action taken towards it should be swiftly shut down.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen Agreed, and i believe in all civilized societies it is shut down quite swiftly. Even when i was religious i understood that biblical ideology should not be legislation. Then you have ppl being put in jail for cheating and coveting. And that makes no sense, but is exactly how many radical islamist nations are being run. (yes i said radical :P )
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft And rightly so, it is radical, at least in contrast to the democracy that we live in, and while democracy has it's own issue's its a far better system of government than anything the Islamic world is run by.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft Ohh and also sorry for the slow, late reply's youtube sucks so i don't get a notification on my computer only when i check my phone :S
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen No worries about the late replies. Youtubes "improvements" have severly hampered my ability to hold conversations and debates, maybe its part of their nefarious schemes. lolz
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
@HPGWellscraft Clearly it's done in spite your vast intellect. :) And this is there attempt to silence it.
MrPyrulen 2 months ago
@MrPyrulen What's done. Sorry, once again i don't know to what this is referring.
HPGWellscraft 2 months ago
Okay, so what the fuck is a condellian (spelling???) argument?
MissCaulks 3 months ago
And as to the Brits, again, no matter how bad the educational system is, you can't argue that the second generation, raised and educated in the country, is socially more accepted and economically more likely to prosper than the first generation. But we see a higher radicalization in the second Generation. This does not make sense in a socio-economic context. It only makes sense in a religious context. Religious groups target the youth and indoctrinate them.
PeterK1984 4 months ago
First off, it is not like there was a market you could stifle in terrorism. It's not like there was a 100 slot limitation for terrorism and hamas just bought all of them up.
There is nothing prohibiting a new Christian terrorist organization appearing in Palestine but it does not happen. And such an oragnization can be small. The RAF, a German group in the 70s, had a dozen members.
And you don't need an organization. The Utah bomber, that guy in Sweden, Lee Harvey Oswald,...
PeterK1984 4 months ago
very good video
Ali1987300zx 4 months ago
Another poll says that in Turkey, the most liberal muslim country, 4% of the population support suicide bombings targeting civilians in defense of the faith. Do you believe that there are 10 million Americans who would support that? In other Muslim countries those numbers were up to 8 times higher. The most radical countries refused to allow the poll.
I invite you to watch Sam Harris "Islam Is Not a Religion of Peace" and make a video about it. I'm very interested in your opinion.
PeterK1984 5 months ago
@PeterK1984 I'd argue that all monotheistic religions (at least) are equal in their potential for genocide mistreatment of female and BS wars to name a few. Now it's true that the majority of Muslim states and their original nationals are in a "dark age" like state. Poverty, socio-political status are the main drive for this. Not directly religion.
All in all no (monotheistic) religion is one of peace. That's why they can, were, are and will so easily be used for violence.
assalane 4 months ago
@assalane While I agree that all religions have a potential for violence, not all live up to it. The Christian population in Palestine is 8% but exactly 0% of the terrorism committed by Palestinians is committed by Christians.
And not everything is socioeconomic. Socioeconomic reasons do not explain why such a high percentage of British muslims support killing of Apostates and terrorism. Poland has the same unemployment and the same poverty rate as Saudi Arabia but not of the support for terror
PeterK1984 4 months ago
@PeterK1984 Your next contention is about British Muslims. You forget to mention that the majority of them are early immigrant, and don't (yet) enjoy the same social status then "natives". A fair comparison would have been to discriminate the studies based on Muslims living in the ghetto, and successful Muslims.
You then compare Poland and Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is not a Democratic country, and access to information there is strictly monitored, so then again not a fair comparison.
assalane 4 months ago
@assalane You are wrong as to the Brits. The poll of British Muslims was done to second generation Muslims in a country with free public education and all the opportunities. I am a second generation immigrant and there is no oppression going on. But even if your argument had any merit it would mean that the first generation, who was discriminated against, would be even more radical. And they are not. The polls show that the first generation is less supportive of terror.
PeterK1984 4 months ago
And the poorest and worst educated places on this planet, the sums of Brazil, produce 0 terrorism.
If you look who fuels terrorist attacks, it is not the poor and oppressed. It is the the Saudi royalty, some of the richest people on this planet. Can you imagine Bill gates teaming up with Donald Trump and funding suicide bombings against catholics in southern Italy?
Socioeconomic reasons play a part but on their own they are an insufficient explanation for the violence in the Muslim world
PeterK1984 4 months ago
@PeterK1984 You make many unfounded assertions that are demonstrably false.
First you say that not all religion live up to violence. You are forgetting all christian terrorist group and all violence and abuses linked to Christians.
You then say Palestinians are 8% Christian and do not engage in terrorism. You are committing a fallacy here. This particular country is dominated by Islamist terrorist groups so It'd have been strange that you'd hear about christian terrorists in the news there.
assalane 4 months ago
@assalane I hate the 500 character limitation.
Christian terrorists. A short google search shows the IRA and a couple of groups who managed to kill some 50 people over the last 5 years. Most of them in targeted assassinations. It is not the same as blowing up buses.
And if the 8% of Christian Palestinians were as active as the muslims they would commit 8% of the attacks. And you would hear of that. But it simply does not happen. Even if they committed 2% it would not go unnoticed.
PeterK1984 4 months ago
@PeterK1984 (3rd and final part). You finally speak about Brazil. There I'd strongly disagree. Organizations like the Cartel are highly religious and while they don't do global terrorism in the same fashion then Muslims, they are extremely violent.
The poor and oppressed don't fuel terrorism, granted. But where do you think they recruit from? Largely from Europeans ghettos, Palestine and other fucked up parts of the world. The market is there, and religion is the tool used to appeal to them.
assalane 4 months ago
@assalane As to the cartells, those are Christians AND criminals but they are not motivated by religion, they are motivated by money. You don't see cartel bosses release videos which show their intention to kill all protestants. And you don't see the cartels recruit kids from the slums to blow up protestant churches.
And the terrorists recruit from colleges and secondary schools. Look at the biographies of the 9/11 highjackers. Educated in the west, wealthy, college degrees, middle class...
PeterK1984 4 months ago
@PeterK1984 I hate the 500 limit too :(. I'm not arguing about the number of death. My main argument is that all monotheistic religion have a potential for violence, and did and do live up to it. Now, why Islam is more of a problem then others atm is of course open for debate: what makes Muslims tap into that potential more globally? After all if all religions have this potential why does a disparity exist between Muslim and christian today for example?
the 9/11 hijackers are just one example...
assalane 4 months ago
@PeterK1984 As for the Palestinians, the terrorist organizations there are Islamist. They effectively stifle the market. It's difficult for an individual to perform an act of terrorism without the backing of an organization. It never happen
I'm not entirely sure for brits, but if it's the same as in France, the free public education is not perfect. You can actually see a big difference between "metro" and "ghetto" schools. You'd also notice that those successful come from successful families.
assalane 4 months ago
@PeterK1984 There is thus a disparity that exist between immigrant and nationals. I don't have the figures, I'm only talking from experience. When a group of people is isolated from the rest of the society, radicalization occur. It does not even have to be an active ostracization.
There is also the effect of age, like you said the 1st generation is often more tolerant than the 2nd, in France too. This is another effect that strongly suggest a social effect toward radicalization
assalane 4 months ago
So many questions and only 500 signs...
I do agree with you that Park 51 should not be opposed and they should be free to practice their religion.
At the same time I disagree with you that all religions are equal. Islam seems to have generally more radicals. A poll in the UK showed that over 20% of Muslims aged 16-24 in the UK thought that leaving Islam should be punishable by death. Can you imagine this many Christians or Jews believing something like that?
PeterK1984 5 months ago
LOUD=RIGHT
FUCK YEA!
GoldenKingdomFilms 5 months ago
Boy did you open me up with this
AngstromJohnny 5 months ago in playlist More videos from xxxThePeachxxx
Please lady.You are arrogant and are no patriot... We are Americans and it is about time you left wing nuts stop all of his peace at any price... This girl needs to grow up and lower her nose so she can take in some oxygen for her pea brain.
realtubegoodtube 5 months ago
Commentator is a Islamist militant sympathizer who is against freedom of speech of
American citizens protesting the mosque being built on the site of victims of islamist terrorism. Her ridicule and personal attacks on the protestors is pathetic.
Grow up!
ShaliniBhaloo 5 months ago
@ShaliniBhaloo BUT IT ISN'T A FRICKING MOSQUE. NOR IS IT ON GROUND ZERO. You all need to understand that. Its a community centre, which includes some prayer facilities. And it just happens to be in the same neighbourhood.
hystericalfangirl 5 months ago
The lady at 5:50. I hope I never see her face in my life or anyone like her.
mrxd17 5 months ago
omg, those people are nuts. and you are very well spoken and intelligent.
Throatxwhores 5 months ago
Peach you are a very brave woman.
Seishisaturn 6 months ago
Well its true, if your muslim. You are non-American.
LorryTheUltraTory 6 months ago
@LorryTheUltraTory - your ignorance is showing again. Anyone can be American regardless of religious faith. I know that bothers morons like you, but there it is. Deal with it.
eclecticinfidel 6 months ago
@eclecticinfidel Yes and No, if you wear the damn veil in 100 degree weather, where no one can see anything but your eyes, than shes right, those muslims arent american. american muslims live a normal every day life.
c0string 6 months ago
@LorryTheUltraTory Why is that? If it's because you assume muslim americans are immigrants, the majority of them were Born in the USA (no pun intended). Would you say the same thing about 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants from Germany?
What if your ancestors have been in the country for centuries, and you convert to Islam. Does becoming a muslim mean you renounce your citizenship?
procritic09 5 months ago
I support the building of the community centre/mosque. So long as whomever responsible is abiding by the city and State laws I don't see a problem.
Sharia though, Sharia courts are just bad news. We have marriage, divorce, and penal laws. We have an established legal system. Those laws and that system is not complemented by seperate, religious courts, the operating manuals of which are archaic, and patently inferior.
Adherents at odds with a religion won't find respite in a court governed by it.
UnitedKingdomify 7 months ago
Respite = Justice. Not sure why I typed respite. Could be that I've been up since four this morning. lol Meh. *boggled* Whatever. {=D
UnitedKingdomify 7 months ago
Love your work mate. From an Australian Muslim. Why so much hate?
MabrukDajan 7 months ago
@ 4:35 SHIT!!!!!
I LOL'd
OpenInsanity 7 months ago
LOLZ, That lady can hardly fucking speak...
Great video.
BrandNewBriefcase 7 months ago
I like how they use freedom only when the like it.
2paclove2 7 months ago
im confused was the big burly guy for or against it & wat bout the 2 guys he was screaming at?
btw although i dont agree with ur religious views i luv ur views on this situation : good on u & ur father :)
Alldevouringsnail 7 months ago
Ok, but what do you do for fun?
What is actually a Good Time to you, (the kind that may include relaxation, smiles and authentic laughter, not the mocking or insulting laughs)? You're way too beautiful to suffer all the time over what's right and what's wrong. But, you're commitment, intelligence and integrity are amirable.
LandSnipe415 7 months ago
the masjid community center project is too close to ground zero.
of all places, why only two blocks away from the sight?
ground zero is a memorial ground, and doesn't need a constant reminder of the threat. and yes, islam is a threat. - nearly 84% oppose this project. yet, these two groups behind this project can't care less of whom they offend. islamization is very real, and all with soon learn the threat of having islam as their immediate neighbor. this plan is very intentional.
ex-muslim
RedSkyNord 7 months ago
@RedSkyNord
That is just close minded and ridiculous. By no means is Islam itself a threat, some Islamic radicals may be dangerous, but the average Muslim generally has absolutely no desire to topple the U.S. in any way. The location of the community center shouldn't matter since a religion did not kill those people, radicals did.
Oflionsandnemeans 7 months ago
@Oflionsandnemeans You are absolutely oblivious if you think "by no means is Islam itself a threat".
Don't tell me that I am the one who is ignorant. You do not know Islam. I was raised a Muslim. You must be unaware that most Imams preach extremism. There is not such thing as a moderate Islam. ALL Muslims respect Shari'a. Did you see any Muslims protesting with fellow Americans after 9/11!? No.
Muslims have an intention in this world. Recognize it.
Truth about Islam --> watch?v=TPaBNlvvrfg
RedSkyNord 7 months ago
The New York accent is fucking annoying. All I could hear was I load of stereotypical New York accents clamorously berating one another, like a bunch of mentally handicapped people throwing a shit fit over some spilled milk. I think a Mosque should be built right on the Twin Towers site, just to annoy of all these patriotic, fat Americans. Also what's with all the muggles and mud bloods? I saw too many darkies in this video, not enough light for my liking.
Maglobrog 7 months ago
sharia law is bad
m'kay
TheLordOfTheSporks 7 months ago
No mosque should be built at all. But if your going to build it do not build it at the 9/11 site. It is an insult we need to stop this, and its a shame that when people speak out against it their labled as bigots and hatemorgers.
tom1yum2goong 8 months ago
I would like the woman in the purple to be guillotined. Words do not fully serve the purpose of describing her.
TheLiberalSoup 8 months ago
@PicklePumpers
AH! THANK YOU!
TheLiberalSoup 8 months ago
"It's guilt by association!"
Facepalm. That is, I think, the first time I have used that word on the internet. Well-deserved.
TheLiberalSoup 8 months ago
purple woman:"You're a big dumb loud person."
me:Look at yourself...
weworld2 8 months ago
I have no words to describe how annoying that bitch in the purple screams.
BIOSHIT 8 months ago
Nice video.. AND you're very pretty,lol... hoorah!
visionquest414 8 months ago
Are you guys fucking nuts? I live in Europe, and that not the old continent as you guys know it, it's " the old fucked continent " , we have suffered already enough from islamisation that we are all fearing that the European culture will be lost soon...
Think about it my American friends, cose this is not a joke
longsweep1 8 months ago
Wow I can't believe people are still stupid enough to think you can bring down 3 buildings in freefall in their own footprint by hitting them with planes! Must be the same dumbshits that think the federal reserve is part of the federal government! Ohh for for those same retards { Osama has been dead for years!) Look at the actor who is in the vids they claim as Osama watching tv. check out the shape of his ears( rounded) compared to Osama's pictures ( pointed) ahhhdahh!! sheep!
MrHr1207 9 months ago
Sorry, can't concentrate on the message being conveyed in this video. This extremely attractive, racially ambiguous young lady is blocking my view...
Elpha22 9 months ago
MISS THEPEACH, if you want to see the downside of the liberal society, just come to the UK and see for yourself.
Liberalism creates a whole set of problems, it creates divisions and tribalism.
Just watch the video below. Its about the UK and its problems with multiculturalism (There are 5 parts)
watch?v=uF0LV8Ha8ro
Nuron666 9 months ago
Even thou those guys that are protesting against Ground Zero Mosque seem a bit extreme, intolerant and so on.
I still think they are right.
We in the UK have become far too liberal and far too relaxed with Muslim groups and the result as been very bad for the UK.
The liberals in the UK have become poodles to Islamic groups.
I think for America to survive, they need to be patriotic and extreme. If they become a soft touch like the UK. Your going to have problems
Nuron666 9 months ago
How do otherwise intelligent atheists on Youtube say such stupid things when it comes to Islam?
You CANNOT compare Islam to Christianity in terms of theiur approach to religous text. Islam is at a different stage in terms of it's approach to scripture. That the Quran is the innerant, literal word of god is the standard in the Muslim world. It's not an extremist position. It's the almost universal position.
Among Christians, however, there isn't the same emphasis on literalism etc.
Mattyb88ful 9 months ago
I learned that guilt by association was a propaganda technique in ninth grade English. Not a great excuse...
kitkatsy1 9 months ago
Then she calls people hmmm lets see Fat, Stupid, Doofus, Idiot. Way to spread the peace girl. :-/
jesse95800 9 months ago
Seriously are you kidding me this girl puts this video up, goes to a protest where freedom of speech is allowed and asks random people why there against a mosque on ground zero. Umm excuse me for asking but does she know how many people lost their lives on 911. Building a mosque on ground zero in my oppinion is just another way to provoke the american people and famillys whos hearts were broken. Oh and then she comments on christianity saying it supports slavery......... Read the bible then talk
jesse95800 9 months ago
Even though I'm agnostic and a fervent anti religeonist, I also have fouund myself in the position of defending the " ground zero mosque ". A total misnomer since it's not even visible from ground zero. AS much as I despise religeon, if christians coud put a church there then muslims should have the same right. Period end of story
oldcomic1 10 months ago
Peach, first I want to say that I love you. Keep on keeping it real, please? That said, here's something else these anti-Ground Zero Mosque fools refuse to look at. Timothy McVey was a Christian and from most accounts, a fundamentalist one. How many people have protested the building of Christian churches near the former Murrah building in Oklahoma City? That was ground zero for the worst terrorist attack America suffered prior to 9/11/2001. Anyway, you keep fighting the good fight, Peach!
getdafuqouttahere 10 months ago