On the Edge with Max Keiser . . . and Mish Shedlock - 20 November 2009 (3/3)

[thane17]

i get a little tired of Max always kissing Mish's ass.

[rikestard]

peace homie

[Paolo7219]

I don't know about individuals owning gold and silver. Why? What is going to happen when the Federal governemnt OUTLAWS individuals owning gold and silver?? And the government makes you sell them your gold and silver at artificially LOW prices?? Could this happen? Yes, imho. The big banks and the politicians they own are NOT going to tap out. At least not before they drag everybody else down with them.

[pretorious700]

Max really nails down the whole obama debacle whe he points out the choice he (Obama) made vis a vis who got bailed out-it really shows who he (O-fucking bama) is really serving

[jobedied]

The oil companies and bankers will soon get together and decide where the next world war of a protracted nature will be held. Even if they have to administer a conflict created to accomplish this ,it will happen. This will then give us a place to send our children to fight for democracy ,employment , and corporate profits. This is the cycle of banking life Mr. Potter's way of occupying the riff raff ( middle class) and profiting heavily. CNN,Fox, and others will add the propaganda.

[30percentplusreturns]

With all the debate of inflation, deflation, buy gold, dont buy gold, stocks will crash, stocks will soar, I have no friggin clue what will happen nor do I care. I think the best approach is own some physical gold and silver, invest in solid companies like warren buffet does and hold for a long time, and maybe hedge your bets with few put options or inverse etf's that short the market. In the end, all we can do is live and enjoy life. LIfe is too short to worry about every friggin thing.

[harveybirdmannequin]

Japan and the yen will collapse with the USA. That's what you get for being a puppet/slave of the USA. Japan has large forex reserves but is a huge NET debtor, like Mish said their debt to GDP is around 200%. Japan buys US debt because they are slaves to the USA after WWII. They also have to bailout zombie banks/companies when they had the same financial crisis with mortgages being passed onto grandchildren. The internal macroeconomy of Japan is disastrous anyone will tell you that.

[pentel1911]

MY GOD MAN, YOU'RE ON THE EDGE!!!

[reginald58]

max and stacy do a great job, bringing this info too light. and as always with great guest.

[marniespeaks]

what's the worst that could happen?

[MishuTaste]

You lose your life savings to inflation.

[maxkeiser]

not if you own gold

[MishuTaste]

Good point.

[marniespeaks]

how do you carry it, cash it, spend it, not get robbed having it, stop the government from taking it, what if you don't have enough to buy it?

Gold is approaching 1200 - most Americans are 1 paycheck away from financial disaster.

[stm333]

But silver is still affordable; and, in all likelihood, will be more readily exchangable than gold during the coming economic chaos.

[marniespeaks]

for what?

[stm333]

For the same things, and for the same reasons, that we currently exchange dollars.

[marniespeaks]

so some people will have silver and gold and everyone else will have?

[stm333]

Everyone else will have, either goods/services to be exchanged, or a deep regret that they have no gold/silver. The barter system has its limits; that's why societies adopts a standard unit of trade (i.e., a currency) to conduct commerce. When fiat money returns to its true value---the worthless paper & ink that it is---what do you propose for use as a currency, if not gold/silver? Should we modify our pockets to accommodate canned goods, toilet paper, kerosene, and other such commodities?

[marniespeaks]

I think you're wrong - the majority do not have gold/silver, at least half have nothing to barter/exchange

On your questions, I figure we'll get a new, perhaps world currency, those who have gold/silver will be required to surrender it to authorities or they will face a huge tax for the exchange

Seriously, you don't think the powers that be will give up power, do you?

and the way Americans have reacted to everything else don't hold your breath for a revolt or the US breaking apart

[stm333]

You have your thoughts, I have my gold/silver. Which will be worth more when TSHTF? Maybe the answer depends on just how far into chaos this ugly mess descends.

I agree that a global currency is a goal of the Elite. And no, they won't surrender their power; but I don't plan to give them additional power by surrendering my gold. And yes, Americans are complacent pussies.

Tell me, why do you think that gold would be confiscated if you also think that too few people have enough of it to matter?

[marniespeaks]

you'll have your gold, but it will either be taxes to the hilt or confiscated as FDR did in the 30's.

that's a good question, when will it matter?

how many people in the US you reckon own gold?

[stm333]

They can't tax or confiscate what they can't find! It will matter when the dollar's value as a reserve currency collapses beyond all hope of recovery---a fast-approaching event.

Enough people owned gold in the 30s that the Fed felt threatened by it, and ordered FDR to confiscate it. Fewer own it nowadays than in the 30s. Gold coins were still being minted and circulating up until '33. Probably fewer than 20% of Americans own any significant amount of gold today. But, their numbers are growing.

[marniespeaks]

so you would rather cash it in underground, cheat the government and tax payers while risk facing the IRS and jail?

Further, you're telling me there's no paper trail to your gold, that the people you bought it from have no record of your purchase? you're kidding, right?

[stm333]

Cheating? How so? Just because I maintain possession and control of my private property, which rightfully belongs to me, and I refuse to let someone else force me to relinquish it to them? That is NOT cheating; but, it IS an attempt on the part of the government to extort from me! F**k the IRS; they're nothing more than thugs who collect extortion money for the Federal Reserve Bank. Can't say for 100% sure about any paper-trail; but I'm not overly concerned about it either way.

[marniespeaks]

I don't want to pay for wars or a highways in Alaska, should I break the law and stop paying taxes?

If there is a law to pay taxes and a law to relinquish your gold the law is the law.

Are you saying that you don't pay federal taxes, because regardless of what belongs to you how you get it or got it IS a concern to government

& yes, the gold belongs to you, but if you want to cash it in be prepared to pay a large tax on it and/or exchange it for the new currency if the dollar collapses

[stm333]

These wars are being financed by collateralizing debt, and not directly by your taxes; although the taxpayer is indeed made liable for the collateral.

Should you stop paying taxes if you disagree? It depends on one's principles---assuming that one has any, But, based on my principles, no you shouldn't pay. And if all Americans paid taxes based on their principles, perhaps we could return to being a self-ruled people again.

There is no obligation to honor an unjust law, or an unjust order.

[marniespeaks]

so, do you pay your taxes or not?

[stm333]

If you mean income tax, then no I do not pay. Because, as I stated below, I haven't owed any income tax. Of course, I do pay sales tax, property tax, etc. if you're including those.

Here's an item for you to research if you ever find yourself bored and sitting at your computer: locate the section of the IRS code that mandates U.S. citizens to pay income tax. Better yet, call or write the IRS and ask them to cite that section of the code to you. If you call, expect to be on hold a long time.

[marniespeaks]

do you file even tho you don't pay?

I saw the Aaron Russo film.

Here's one for you, try and get Peter Schiff's father out of jail.

[stm333]

Absolutely, I still file a return. Yes, the Russo film is an excellent expose!

If I had served on Irwin Schiff's jury, he would have never been convicted. It's difficult to extract justice from a legal system that applies unjust laws.

So, how long have you been working for the IRS? ;)

[marniespeaks]

if you file you're on the grid. If you have a credit card, you're on the grid. If you have a job, in school, own a car, you're on the grid. Plus if you want to cash in your gold you'll lose at least 30% off the top. These people aren't stupid, remember they are crooks so they look at every angle they would use to cheat themselves. you're options are few - find a friendly corrupt island, buy black market tangibles or get a government job ;)

[marniespeaks]

I like this conversation, because we need to hash all this out - somebody has to lose in the end - it's only a matter of who.

[stm333]

Hash it out, before you audit me? LOL =O

Yes indeed, it's good to talk this stuff out and bounce it off other people for ideas. Ideally, I think the best defense is to work toward self-sufficiency---but that takes a lot of time to learn and to do. At the very least, when things get truly ugly, people are going to have to cluster together into small groups, and learn to trust and help one another. Kinda like in the frontier days. I do think it's going to come down to basic survival skills.

[marniespeaks]

I'm torn - I can't imagine that happening especially, in the cities - you're going to have to feed and house most people if it comes to collapse. people don't know how to survive. there will be lawlessness and a lot more cops - like NOLA - people won't go for that - gov will have to issue a currency and create jobs & taxing the crap out of the rich - there no way around it - just too many people to manage differently - imagine every medium to large city in the US looking like Detroit?

[stm333]

Pretty grim scenario, but accurate. As Rahm "nine-and-a-half" Emanuel put it: never let a good crisis go to waste. Sure, they'll use this to impose a unified global currency on us; but not before they soften the people up and bring 'em to their knees first. Then the people will have to "go for it"---in fact they'll be BEGGING for it. It'll also serve as a convenient excuse for them to declare Martial law and violate posse comitatus.

Hegelian dialectic ad nauseum.

[marniespeaks]

I'm not ready to walk down the Alex Jones Road yet.

I think states and regions will be forced to take over and come up with some creative ideas.

A lot of this could be solved by doing a few thing.

End corporate personhood

tax the wealthy at 98%

invest in education and renewable

and bring back our morals by enacting single payer health care

[stm333]

Nobody wants to take that road, but we're being herded down it. Regional & local control will always be the best route to REAL solutions.

You're bull's-eye on target with ending (JD Rockefeller inspired) corporate artificial-person-hood! That alone would lead to organic solutions to 90% of societies woes.

But I think you're off-target with single payer HC. Except for catastrophic HC insurance, if we eliminated the HC insurance scam totally, then we could make HC out-of-pocket affordable again.

[cds162]

alex jones is hard to listen to.. he's right everyone else is wrong.. he has all the answers.. I wish he would let his guests talk...

[cds162]

and that sir is where we have a probelm with our fiat debt created dollar....in order for you to make a buck.. I have to lose a buck.. not a good thing..

[thane17]

Somebody else doesn't have to loss a buck for you to make a buck. Money is just a medium of exchange. You can produce something of value and keep it! Now your net worth just went up, and nobodies went down. But now that you've add more value to the economy and there is just the same amount of dollars chasing those goods the dollar strengthened and everyone wins.

[cds162]

how do i lose 30% if i sell gold?

maybe in Your State..

in My state there is not tax for either buying or selling (as long as you sell less then 10K worth of gold..

[ISellSigals]

Real talk.

[oc5nsli341nforce4]

It is only a matter of time before they all go down the slippery slope and the USD will lead the way.

[hnsbro]

Assuming the Yen does implode first - what are the ramifications for the rest of the world?

[jihadage]

good hypothetical question

[kricke243]

Mish is completely wrong, and he even said "Percentage" when he meant "Percentage point" which is an unforgivable error coming from an economist.

He thinks US and Japan economy is even closely similar. Ridiculous. Why do Max even interview him?

[RoberTastic]

I agree - sick of hearing the japan comparisons - it's not the same

[cruztripper]

What part isn't the same between the US and Japan?

[kricke243]

US is a debtor nation. Japan is a creditor nation.

US has huge trade deficits. Japan has huge trade surplussed.

US has a import/consumption based economy (70% + of GNP). Japan has a production/export based economy.

US people has no savings. Japanese people have huge savings.

US goverment debt is to a very large degree owned by foreigners. Japan government debt is to 100% owned by Japanese citizens.

The result will be the opposite.

[hipbas]

Mish has one of the best economic views in the business. Great Guest Max.

[montagelandry]

Mish is sold on his own arguments with blinders.

[CTOL1]

When the moon hits your eye like a big pizza pie...

Homer Simpson says: Gimi my chicken sandwich

Gotta love these greedy (expletive deleted)

Good video just not a big of fan of mish as I am of Max

[italianpolitics]

maybe a little pressure is good. sleeping babies and SIDS.

[chena3]

Mish and Keiser

mmm just like a jellie donut

with powdered sugar on it

as good as it gets ...

carry trade carry trade ...

carry a box of donuts

trade for chinese won tons

[redline1189]

when all politicians are owned by big banks what else do you expect????

[pardonwhat]

Go to this gripping piece of fiction johngaltfla (.) com/ blog3/2009/11/18/ the-day-the-dollar-died

Remove the spaces and brackets

[PestControl02]

yea..really good! thanks for sharing!

:)

[pardonwhat]

Shenandoah, the day the dollar died.

what happens when the end game starts!!