Never ever saw this before, Ovett did really well to go around the pack, what sticks out more than any thing is his age 18 years, keep them coming. brilliant
@fitzieo1 Yes, Mr Ovett's performance in the 800 metres final at those European Championships in Rome (back in September '74) was remarkable - given that he was still an 18-year-old kid/youth at the time.
Sadly, due to injury problems, Steve did not make much progress, as an 800m runner, between the autumn of 1974 and the summer of '76 (when the Montreal Olympics were held). Consequently, his performance at those Games - whilst respectable - did not live up to the great expectations
@markgregamy Unless I am very much mistaken, an American half-miler by the name of Johnny Gray competed in FOUR consecutive Olympic 800m finals: in 1984, 1988, 1992 and 1996, respectively. Gray never became an Olympic champion in that (or any other) event, but he did manage to win a bronze medal at the Barcelona Olympics in August 1992. His PB for the 800m was a very respectable 1:42.60 secs (set in the summer of 1985.)
Let me take this opportunity to wish you a Happy New Year.
@ollie705 Although it looks fast, it's due to the rest of the field slowing dramatically. It's probably about 26.0. I had a look at Foster's 5000m win at the same meet on same track & he covered the part of the track from the 200m line to the join on the inside between grass & synthetic in 2.6 secs. In this race Susanj is seen at this point in 1:20.3. I'd say he was moving faster than Foster & covered it in c.2.3. That means he'd have hit 200m to go in 1:18.0, giving him about 26.0 for last 200.
@ollie705 Just read an account of the race from Athletics Weekly, which had Fiasconaro going through 600m in 77.6, with Susanj 5th about 5m behind. That's about 0.6-0.7 in time. So his 600m time would have been about 1:18.2/1:18.3, and a final 200m of 25.8/25.9.
@deano27671 If big Marcello Fiasconaro went through the first 600m of that race in a time of 77.6 seconds (which is by no means exceptionally quick for an athlete of his calibre) then he really should have had enough strength and energy left in the proverbial tank to win the race (or, at the very least, to give Luciano Susanj a really good run for his money) - given that his PB for the distance was 1:43.7 secs.
Clearly, the big Italian/Sringbok was no longer in the scintillating form
@deano27671 [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Marcello Fiasconaro.]
that he had been in during the previous year (1973). I think I am correct in saying that 'Fiasc' broke the world record (for the 800 metres) during June or July of that year, and went down in history as the first man to break the 1:44.0 barrier at that distance. No mean achievement. Even today, a time of 1:43.7 secs for the 800m is highly respectable - almost 40 years on from 1973.
@TheEctomorph Yep. Sub 1:44 is still going to put you in contention at major champs today. In fact, only 5 athletes beat Fiasconaro's 1:43.7 world record, in 2011. He'd still be right up there. Although Fiasconaro was the first to break 1:44.0 for 800m, Wohlhuter ran a 1:44.6 for 880yds a month earlier, although no "official" 800m time was recorded. The usual conversion from 880 to 800m is -0.6, so perhaps Wohlhuter had just crept under that barrier had they bothered to take the time!
For a period of about three years - between the summer of 1973 and the summer of '76 - Rick Wohluter was consistently one of the top three 800 metre runners in the world. I think I am correct in saying that his best year - in terms of athletic performances - was 1974. During the summer of that year, he returned a time of 1:44.1 secs (for 888 yards). That is equivalent to a time of 1:43.5 (or thereabouts) for the marginally shorter distance of 800 metres. To be honest,
@deano27671 [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Richard Wohlhuter.]
I am not certain whether or not Wohlhuter's performance, which was an exceptional one, was ever offically ratified by the IAAF as a world record for the shorter distance - i.e. the 800m. According to SOME sources, Mr Wohlhuter WAS the official world record holder for the men's 800 metres for a couple of years in the mid-1970s ... but according to other sources, Marcello Fiasconaro (the big Italian/Springbok
@deano27671 [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Richard Wohlhuter.]
middle-distance star) held the world record for that event from the summer of 1973 right through until the summer of '76 - when the great Cuban athlete, Mr Juantorena, set the Montreal Olympics alight, as it were, by winning the 800 metres in a time of 1:43.50 secs (electronically timed).
So ... perhaps you could clear up this confusion for me, Deano. Who replaced Marcello Fiasconaro as the official world
@deano27671 [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Richard Wohlhuter.]
record holder for the men's 800 metres? Was it Richard Wohlhuter, of the United States of America, or Alberto Juantorena Danger, of Cuba? For years, I have wanted to know the DEFINITIVE answer to that question!
Let me take this opportunity to wish you a happy and prosperous 2012.
@TheEctomorph Happy New Year to you too! Although Wohlhuter's mark of 1:44.1 (hand timed!) set in 74 (therefore a year after Fiasconaro's 1:43.7) was perhaps intrinsically superior to the Italian's ratified record, it could not be ratified as an 800m WR, as no official time was taken for 800m! As you correctly put, 1:44.1 is worth c. 1:43.5, but Wohlhuter did NOT hold the IAAF official WR. Strangely, Snell's 800WR of 1:44.3 was set in an 880 race where he ran 1:45.1, which is 0.8 difference!?
@deano27671 Fiasconaro's 1:43.7 was also set at a time where they ran 300m in lanes rather than just over 100m. It should also be remembered that most of the WR's (in fact, I think all) were set using hand held stopwatches. The first electronic time was Juantorena's Montreal WR. Electronic times are usually c. 0.1 slower than hand held. Coe's Florence run was hand timed as 1:41.6!
Luciano Sušanj was a Croation/Yugoslavian 400m runner who stepped up to 800m in the early 70's,taking his one lap speed into the longer distance with astonishing results...this was one of the greatest 800 finishes ever (WR holder Fiasconaro was in the final).After this he sadly didn't have time to train properly (he was in the army) and instead of giving Juantorena a run for his money in the 76 Olympics 800 final he only came in 6th.He retired afterwards and I think later became a Croatian MP.
@ARRISIPPY Big Luciano Susanj was a great athlete, who almost certainly never achieved his full potential as an 800 metres runner. I believe that, in terms of natural ability, he was marginally superior to Marcello Fiasconaro (the Italian who held the world record for that distance at the time of the Euro Championships in 1974).
wow, he was in bad position had to come round the long way, this also begs the question what did ovett do in 1975, with this form 1975 should have been incredible, i do not recall any 75 data on Ovett, was he injured. 76 he was in olympic 800 final i recall, but no sign of 1500 in those days.
@markgregamy Just had a quick look at his race results for 75 in his biography, and it looks like it was a bit of a transition year, in that he was running 800m with success, but not having much luck in the few 1500s/miles he was running. E,g. 6th in Emsley Carr Mile 5secs behind Bayi, 9th in a Mile behind Walker in Stockholm, 9th in another 1500 behind Walker (also in Stockholm) & 8th in the Mile at the Palace 6secs behind Walker! He did win the Europa Cup 800 final though.
@fitzieo1 Unfortunately I don't have Ovett's European Cup win, and have never seen it! I do have a HQ copy of Coe's 81 World Cup win, wiith build up and post race commentator's analysis, which is next on my list to update on here. I'm on holiday next week, so will try and do it then.
@markgregamy Due to injury problems (or "issues", as they tend to say nowadays, in these days of political correctness), Steve Ovett did not improve - to any significant extent - as an 800 metres runner, between September 1974 and July 1976.
When he competed in the 1976 Olympic final at 800m - in the July of that year - he could only manage to finish in fifth place. Two European athletes - Willi Wulbeck, of West Germany, and the late Ivo Van Damme, of Belgium, finished ahead
@markgregamy [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Steve Ovett.]
the 'big O' in that race. Both of those athletes - unlike Steve - had made a great deal of progress, as athletes, since the 1974 Euro Championships, just a couple of years earlier. That was somewhat ironic, given that they were both older than Steve, who - in the summer of '76 - had not yet reached his 21st birthday - and (in athletics terms) was still a kid.
@markgregamy [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Steve Ovett.]
those European Championships in September 1974, Ovett did remarkably well to finish in second place behind the gifted (and much older) Yugoslavian athlete, Luciano Sujanj. One has to remember that the 'big O' was still an 18-year-old kid when he won that silver medal. What is more, his training preparations for those championships - the previous winter - had been curtailed by glandular fever.
wow, he was in bad position had to come round the long way, this also begs the question what did ovett do in 1975, with this form 1975 should have been incredible, i dont recall any 75 data on ovett, was he injured. 76 he was in olympic 800 final i recall, but no sign of 1500 in those days.
Never ever saw this before, Ovett did really well to go around the pack, what sticks out more than any thing is his age 18 years, keep them coming. brilliant
fitzieo1 4 months ago
@fitzieo1 Yes, Mr Ovett's performance in the 800 metres final at those European Championships in Rome (back in September '74) was remarkable - given that he was still an 18-year-old kid/youth at the time.
Sadly, due to injury problems, Steve did not make much progress, as an 800m runner, between the autumn of 1974 and the summer of '76 (when the Montreal Olympics were held). Consequently, his performance at those Games - whilst respectable - did not live up to the great expectations
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@TheEctomorph thanks for that info, id also forgotten ovett was in 76 final, so he ran 3 olympic 800 finals, thats another record i think,
markgregamy 1 month ago
@markgregamy Unless I am very much mistaken, an American half-miler by the name of Johnny Gray competed in FOUR consecutive Olympic 800m finals: in 1984, 1988, 1992 and 1996, respectively. Gray never became an Olympic champion in that (or any other) event, but he did manage to win a bronze medal at the Barcelona Olympics in August 1992. His PB for the 800m was a very respectable 1:42.60 secs (set in the summer of 1985.)
Let me take this opportunity to wish you a Happy New Year.
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@fitzieo1 [continuing on from my previous 'post'.]
which many athletics pundits (and fans) had of him, eighteen months or so earlier, in the wake of his great performance at the '74 Europeans.
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
Must have been a sub 25 sec last 200m....No doubt I will get his exact time from someone :)
ollie705 4 months ago
@ollie705 Although it looks fast, it's due to the rest of the field slowing dramatically. It's probably about 26.0. I had a look at Foster's 5000m win at the same meet on same track & he covered the part of the track from the 200m line to the join on the inside between grass & synthetic in 2.6 secs. In this race Susanj is seen at this point in 1:20.3. I'd say he was moving faster than Foster & covered it in c.2.3. That means he'd have hit 200m to go in 1:18.0, giving him about 26.0 for last 200.
deano27671 4 months ago
@ollie705 Just read an account of the race from Athletics Weekly, which had Fiasconaro going through 600m in 77.6, with Susanj 5th about 5m behind. That's about 0.6-0.7 in time. So his 600m time would have been about 1:18.2/1:18.3, and a final 200m of 25.8/25.9.
deano27671 4 months ago
@deano27671 If big Marcello Fiasconaro went through the first 600m of that race in a time of 77.6 seconds (which is by no means exceptionally quick for an athlete of his calibre) then he really should have had enough strength and energy left in the proverbial tank to win the race (or, at the very least, to give Luciano Susanj a really good run for his money) - given that his PB for the distance was 1:43.7 secs.
Clearly, the big Italian/Sringbok was no longer in the scintillating form
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@deano27671 [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Marcello Fiasconaro.]
that he had been in during the previous year (1973). I think I am correct in saying that 'Fiasc' broke the world record (for the 800 metres) during June or July of that year, and went down in history as the first man to break the 1:44.0 barrier at that distance. No mean achievement. Even today, a time of 1:43.7 secs for the 800m is highly respectable - almost 40 years on from 1973.
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@TheEctomorph Yep. Sub 1:44 is still going to put you in contention at major champs today. In fact, only 5 athletes beat Fiasconaro's 1:43.7 world record, in 2011. He'd still be right up there. Although Fiasconaro was the first to break 1:44.0 for 800m, Wohlhuter ran a 1:44.6 for 880yds a month earlier, although no "official" 800m time was recorded. The usual conversion from 880 to 800m is -0.6, so perhaps Wohlhuter had just crept under that barrier had they bothered to take the time!
deano27671 1 month ago
@deano27671
For a period of about three years - between the summer of 1973 and the summer of '76 - Rick Wohluter was consistently one of the top three 800 metre runners in the world. I think I am correct in saying that his best year - in terms of athletic performances - was 1974. During the summer of that year, he returned a time of 1:44.1 secs (for 888 yards). That is equivalent to a time of 1:43.5 (or thereabouts) for the marginally shorter distance of 800 metres. To be honest,
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@deano27671 [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Richard Wohlhuter.]
I am not certain whether or not Wohlhuter's performance, which was an exceptional one, was ever offically ratified by the IAAF as a world record for the shorter distance - i.e. the 800m. According to SOME sources, Mr Wohlhuter WAS the official world record holder for the men's 800 metres for a couple of years in the mid-1970s ... but according to other sources, Marcello Fiasconaro (the big Italian/Springbok
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@deano27671 [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Richard Wohlhuter.]
middle-distance star) held the world record for that event from the summer of 1973 right through until the summer of '76 - when the great Cuban athlete, Mr Juantorena, set the Montreal Olympics alight, as it were, by winning the 800 metres in a time of 1:43.50 secs (electronically timed).
So ... perhaps you could clear up this confusion for me, Deano. Who replaced Marcello Fiasconaro as the official world
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@deano27671 [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Richard Wohlhuter.]
record holder for the men's 800 metres? Was it Richard Wohlhuter, of the United States of America, or Alberto Juantorena Danger, of Cuba? For years, I have wanted to know the DEFINITIVE answer to that question!
Let me take this opportunity to wish you a happy and prosperous 2012.
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@TheEctomorph Happy New Year to you too! Although Wohlhuter's mark of 1:44.1 (hand timed!) set in 74 (therefore a year after Fiasconaro's 1:43.7) was perhaps intrinsically superior to the Italian's ratified record, it could not be ratified as an 800m WR, as no official time was taken for 800m! As you correctly put, 1:44.1 is worth c. 1:43.5, but Wohlhuter did NOT hold the IAAF official WR. Strangely, Snell's 800WR of 1:44.3 was set in an 880 race where he ran 1:45.1, which is 0.8 difference!?
deano27671 1 month ago
@deano27671 Fiasconaro's 1:43.7 was also set at a time where they ran 300m in lanes rather than just over 100m. It should also be remembered that most of the WR's (in fact, I think all) were set using hand held stopwatches. The first electronic time was Juantorena's Montreal WR. Electronic times are usually c. 0.1 slower than hand held. Coe's Florence run was hand timed as 1:41.6!
deano27671 1 month ago
Luciano Sušanj was a Croation/Yugoslavian 400m runner who stepped up to 800m in the early 70's,taking his one lap speed into the longer distance with astonishing results...this was one of the greatest 800 finishes ever (WR holder Fiasconaro was in the final).After this he sadly didn't have time to train properly (he was in the army) and instead of giving Juantorena a run for his money in the 76 Olympics 800 final he only came in 6th.He retired afterwards and I think later became a Croatian MP.
ARRISIPPY 4 months ago
@ARRISIPPY Big Luciano Susanj was a great athlete, who almost certainly never achieved his full potential as an 800 metres runner. I believe that, in terms of natural ability, he was marginally superior to Marcello Fiasconaro (the Italian who held the world record for that distance at the time of the Euro Championships in 1974).
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
wow, he was in bad position had to come round the long way, this also begs the question what did ovett do in 1975, with this form 1975 should have been incredible, i do not recall any 75 data on Ovett, was he injured. 76 he was in olympic 800 final i recall, but no sign of 1500 in those days.
markgregamy 4 months ago
@markgregamy Just had a quick look at his race results for 75 in his biography, and it looks like it was a bit of a transition year, in that he was running 800m with success, but not having much luck in the few 1500s/miles he was running. E,g. 6th in Emsley Carr Mile 5secs behind Bayi, 9th in a Mile behind Walker in Stockholm, 9th in another 1500 behind Walker (also in Stockholm) & 8th in the Mile at the Palace 6secs behind Walker! He did win the Europa Cup 800 final though.
deano27671 4 months ago
@deano27671 Do you have the 1975 Europa cup win? or Seb Coe's 1981 world cup
fitzieo1 4 months ago
@fitzieo1 Unfortunately I don't have Ovett's European Cup win, and have never seen it! I do have a HQ copy of Coe's 81 World Cup win, wiith build up and post race commentator's analysis, which is next on my list to update on here. I'm on holiday next week, so will try and do it then.
deano27671 4 months ago
@markgregamy Due to injury problems (or "issues", as they tend to say nowadays, in these days of political correctness), Steve Ovett did not improve - to any significant extent - as an 800 metres runner, between September 1974 and July 1976.
When he competed in the 1976 Olympic final at 800m - in the July of that year - he could only manage to finish in fifth place. Two European athletes - Willi Wulbeck, of West Germany, and the late Ivo Van Damme, of Belgium, finished ahead
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@markgregamy [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Steve Ovett.]
the 'big O' in that race. Both of those athletes - unlike Steve - had made a great deal of progress, as athletes, since the 1974 Euro Championships, just a couple of years earlier. That was somewhat ironic, given that they were both older than Steve, who - in the summer of '76 - had not yet reached his 21st birthday - and (in athletics terms) was still a kid.
With regard to the 800 metres final at
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
@markgregamy [continuing on from my previous 'post' about Steve Ovett.]
those European Championships in September 1974, Ovett did remarkably well to finish in second place behind the gifted (and much older) Yugoslavian athlete, Luciano Sujanj. One has to remember that the 'big O' was still an 18-year-old kid when he won that silver medal. What is more, his training preparations for those championships - the previous winter - had been curtailed by glandular fever.
TheEctomorph 1 month ago
wow, he was in bad position had to come round the long way, this also begs the question what did ovett do in 1975, with this form 1975 should have been incredible, i dont recall any 75 data on ovett, was he injured. 76 he was in olympic 800 final i recall, but no sign of 1500 in those days.
markgregamy 4 months ago