1962 years of clear Catholic teaching...all obscured or vitiated by Paul VI in one fell swoop. No. No. Cannot be. Either radically correct the Council or scrap it---then the Church will revive.
Pope Adrian VI († 1523) stated that "it is beyond question" that a pope can "err in matters touching the Faith", he can "teach heresy" in decrees. He also stated "many Roman Pontiffs were heretics".
The dangers present are from both sides..One should remain faithful to Sacred Tradition and to the Roman Pontiff, since such allegiance is PART, if not intergral to that same Tradition. We are NOT Protestants who abjure every Honorius, Alexander IV, Paul VI, John Paul II, and declare them "heretics". On the contrary, we are traditional Catholics! We abide as to what the Catholic Church says and judges.
I would say that Traditionalists are most certainly faithful to Sacred Tradition, and to the papacy. But I/we will not accept error from a pope just because he is pope. Tradition will be the judge...
Well, tradition says that the Church will be the arbiter of truth NOT Tradition! This is the same with the sola scriptura argument made by Protestants. Both Scripture and Tradition can't be the judge but the living Church, applying scripture and tradition. Augustine, Leo, Pius, Aquinas can no longer box our ears. But the living Church can.
Well... if we follow that line of thought, all we can say is, "yes Father and no Father."
The living Church can box our ears as long as it follows the teachings and traditions of the Church. Sometime in the future, it will be Tradition that judges if the boxing of our ears was proper or not. In the mean time, we should follow the traditions and teachings of the Church. Jesus Christ is the Truth, and we need to restore all things in Christ...
I won't argue further since I know we are on the same side with regard to tradition and the authority of the Church. I pray that you SSPX may be fully regularized in the Church and restore tradition back to the post-conciliar Church. However, I disagree with your comment that current pope is an apostate. Since an apostate cannot be the pope. Then we have to be sedevacantist, which the SSPX themselves and other traditional Catholics reject.
I think it's plain to see that the past few popes are manifested heretics. (But perhaps not formal?) One can find and read all over the Internet the heretical things those popes have said and done. I'm not judging I'm just pointing these things out. I can give you a long list if you want. In Christian charity, I think the debate should be: can a heretical pope be a true pope, and have we had anti popes in the past? If we have had anti popes in the past, why are modern day popes excluded?
According to the New Advent web site, 30 men were antipopes. Another popular web site says 40 were anti popes. There is not enough room to list all of them here. Go to the Novus Ordo 'New Advent' web site and see for yourself. Hippolytus (?), III century Novatian, 251 Felix II, 355-365 Ursicinus, 366-367 Eulalius, 418-419 Laurentius, 498-501 Constantine II, 767 Philip, VIII century Anastasius, 855 Leo VIII, 956-963 Boniface VII, 974
1962 years of clear Catholic teaching...all obscured or vitiated by Paul VI in one fell swoop. No. No. Cannot be. Either radically correct the Council or scrap it---then the Church will revive.
orbis2009 3 years ago
Pope Adrian VI († 1523) stated that "it is beyond question" that a pope can "err in matters touching the Faith", he can "teach heresy" in decrees. He also stated "many Roman Pontiffs were heretics".
Oblationem 4 years ago
The dangers present are from both sides..One should remain faithful to Sacred Tradition and to the Roman Pontiff, since such allegiance is PART, if not intergral to that same Tradition. We are NOT Protestants who abjure every Honorius, Alexander IV, Paul VI, John Paul II, and declare them "heretics". On the contrary, we are traditional Catholics! We abide as to what the Catholic Church says and judges.
darkcoven 4 years ago
I would say that Traditionalists are most certainly faithful to Sacred Tradition, and to the papacy. But I/we will not accept error from a pope just because he is pope. Tradition will be the judge...
Oblationem 4 years ago
Well, tradition says that the Church will be the arbiter of truth NOT Tradition! This is the same with the sola scriptura argument made by Protestants. Both Scripture and Tradition can't be the judge but the living Church, applying scripture and tradition. Augustine, Leo, Pius, Aquinas can no longer box our ears. But the living Church can.
darkcoven 4 years ago
Well... if we follow that line of thought, all we can say is, "yes Father and no Father."
The living Church can box our ears as long as it follows the teachings and traditions of the Church. Sometime in the future, it will be Tradition that judges if the boxing of our ears was proper or not. In the mean time, we should follow the traditions and teachings of the Church. Jesus Christ is the Truth, and we need to restore all things in Christ...
Oblationem 4 years ago
I won't argue further since I know we are on the same side with regard to tradition and the authority of the Church. I pray that you SSPX may be fully regularized in the Church and restore tradition back to the post-conciliar Church. However, I disagree with your comment that current pope is an apostate. Since an apostate cannot be the pope. Then we have to be sedevacantist, which the SSPX themselves and other traditional Catholics reject.
darkcoven 4 years ago
I think it's plain to see that the past few popes are manifested heretics. (But perhaps not formal?) One can find and read all over the Internet the heretical things those popes have said and done. I'm not judging I'm just pointing these things out. I can give you a long list if you want. In Christian charity, I think the debate should be: can a heretical pope be a true pope, and have we had anti popes in the past? If we have had anti popes in the past, why are modern day popes excluded?
Oblationem 4 years ago
According to the New Advent web site, 30 men were antipopes. Another popular web site says 40 were anti popes. There is not enough room to list all of them here. Go to the Novus Ordo 'New Advent' web site and see for yourself. Hippolytus (?), III century Novatian, 251 Felix II, 355-365 Ursicinus, 366-367 Eulalius, 418-419 Laurentius, 498-501 Constantine II, 767 Philip, VIII century Anastasius, 855 Leo VIII, 956-963 Boniface VII, 974
Oblationem 4 years ago
Why do people say Bishop Fellay is schismatic? He seems like a very faithful and holy man.
GhaleonStar 4 years ago
They, i.e. the Vatican, say he is schismatic because he refuses to become a Roman Prptestant.
Oblationem 4 years ago
God bless Bishop Fellay
livre333 4 years ago