CRYPTOZOOLOGY ONLINE: On The Track (Of Unknown Animals) Episode 28 - January 2010

[mpr106]

what ever happened to the amelanistic smooth newt? did you successfully breed from her?

[cfztv]

It wasn't me who had her. It was an acquaintance of mine in the Home Counties. I will have to make enquiries..

[BobMonkfish]

"Lakes" in Ireland are called "loughs". It's a bit like referring to Exmoor as an English chaparral...

[mpr106]

I lived in west africa as an expatriot as a child, and remember the tradtion was to make a wish upon seeing the first White Eegret of the wet season. Was very confused the first time I saw one over here!

[cfztv]

That is interesting. My mother (who was in Nigeria between 1952 and 1960) told me exactly the same story. Whereabouts were you?

[mpr106]

@cfztv Haha brilliant! Port Harcourt, Nigeria, around 1990-4. I was very young but I do remember some very unusual looking insects (a golden praying mantis, bright purple wasps!) maybe your guys should head out there sometime ;o)

[cfztv]

Sokoto 1960 :)

[Retrieverman1]

That thing in the tree is a porcupine.

We have saying where I come from (although it is biologically incorrect): Don't get into a pissing contest with a skunk. Sometimes you have to censor for your own sanity!

I have no idea what you saw in the Lake.

But I've given up on commenting on Eel or No Eel simply because it seems to attract the same sort of people who just want to troll and troll (or who would rather use Penn and Teller as a source, rather than look closely at the arguments.)

[stitchthat]

i dont like to get involved in youtube arguments but as a neutral observer it seems to me highland tiger takes a perverse delight in hounding the staff of the cfz , did one of them steal his women ?

[cfztv]

Nice one.

[cfztv]

(Excerpt from open letter on the CFZ Blog)

Highland Tiger. It is obvious that there is no point in me trying to debate with you in a civilised manner. I do not like having to do this, but you leave me no option. You are banned from commenting on any CFZtv posting, and should you reappear under another pseudonym I will do the same. No doubt you will go to some other Internet medium and complain about how Jon Downes "censors" his video comments.

Sadly, because of you, yes he does.

[Retrieverman1]

Reading long arguments like this on yourube makes my head hurt.

Maybe that's why I normally just leave my comments and jump off.

[cfztv]

You haven't asked any questions, merely made accusations. I will answer any questions you like, in whatever forum you like if you use your real name.

[thehighlandtiger]

I have asked for a comment from you regarding questions originally asked about Doc Sheils involvement in the sighting. At no time did you mention on either the original commentary of the video, nor in your subsequent replies Doc, "summoning the monster". In fact you were at pains to stress that his involvement was very minimal.

In the FT article, his actions were very much prominant. Would you like to put the record straight now and clarify this.Why did you not mention his actions on the video.

[cfztv]

Because my commentary was merely covering what was ON the video, noit the other events apertaining to it. I wrote a long paper for FT, only part of which was published explaining the whole thing.

The full version is in the 2010 Yearbook, which is currently in publication.

As to your other comments, the disclaimer on the website has been there for over a year and was put there specifically because one of our consultants felt uncomfortable with the CFZ standpoint on various religious issues.

[cfztv]

Secondly, Richard Freeman didn't contact The Sun, I did, and the four members of the expedition knew that I was going to do so.

Thirdly the Newsblog is NOT merely a list of links

[thehighlandtiger]

As usual your version of the "truth" is slightly different to others. Adam Davies has already said in an interview with another prominant cryptozoologist that he wasn't told about the the release of the print photos to the Sun until AFTER it was done.

Are you saying that Loren Coleman and Adam Davies are now lying?

[cfztv]

I have just had a long conversation with Adam Davies. There is absolutely no bad blood between us, or between him and the CFZ or any other permutation (not that I ever thought that there was). Indeed, the forthcoming CFZ Yearbook includes a major article about his search for the yeti. "I wouldn't have spent two days writing it if you and I weren't good" he laughed.

[cfztv]

Earlier this week Loren wrote:

"Happy New Year, and may 2010 be full of great surprises for all of us interested in this field! I look forward to co-operative efforts between the International Cryptozoology Museum, the Centre for Fortean Zoology and other worldwide cryptozoological organisations. "

He would not have written that if there was any bad blood between us.

[emperorzong]

craptozoology

[cfztv]

I have had enough of this. I am not prepared to justify my actions to someone too cowardly to come out from behind the safety of a facile pseudonym. I have a pretty good idea who you are, and your antagonism towards me has nothing to do with anything I might or might not have done or said in Ireland. I decline to discuss the matter further until you use your real name.

[thehighlandtiger]

I'm sorry Jon, that you feel that way, but I think your are mistaking me for someone else.

In the past you have always been gracious enough to answer my questions, I can.t see why you have suddenly become defensive regarding the questions I have posed. I have not been rude to yourself, or to the CFZ, but your refusal to clarify the points that I bring up is strange, if you have nothing to hide.Other readers may make their own minds up, on your real reasons for your reaction to my questions

[cfztv]

Then use your real name.

[thehighlandtiger]

I'm sorry Jon, but all the while members of the CFZ are using aliases in order to come to your defence, then I too will retain my anonymity. It's not hard to work out that "thegwiber" is your right hand man Oll Lewis, and I'm sure "Ragbagable" is also a good friend of yours, as that account was only created to refute a disgusting comment made about yourself and Max three months ago.

If you don't wish to answer my questions then that is your perogative, but I had thought you better than that

[thegwiber]

@thehighlandtiger

Of course I am. I have said on the CFZ blog on several occasions that Gwiber is a name I use on the internet, so it is hardly a secret.

Further to your earlier comment about me accusing you of you of being a 12 year old, if you read my post I did no such thing. I only suggested that idiotic bottom feeders that stalk him on the internet had a mental age of 12. You chose to associate yourself with it. I was just pointing out that it is trolls that are at fault here not Jon.

[thehighlandtiger]

Come on Oll, you know exactly what you meant.

"when people who seem to have a mental age of 12 see fit to hound both him and the CFZ throughout a number of sites including youtube and cryptomundo"

Now as far as I can see only I use the same name on those two sites. And if you honestly think the people who post on the cryptomundo site are trolls, then I suggest you come out of your insular little world and join in the debates with the highly intelligent people that are there.

[thegwiber]

@thehighlandtiger

Nope, people on cryptomundo are not trolls. But someone who might say backhanded things like "It seems that not all of the CFZ are incompetent" (insinuating that some of us are) in a post about CFZ members nothing to do with their original grievance probably are though.

There is a difference between stating a grievance & trotting it out all the time even where it bears little or no relevance to the subject, really that is an unhealthy thing to do. Try to relax a bit OK?

[thehighlandtiger]

Perhaps some of you are incompetent. You have a known hoaxer Doc Shiels as part of your set up, although I have noticed in the last few days that you have added a disclaimer on your site. "Expert consultants who are not necessarily members of the CFZ". (now why was this suddenly added?). and you had the embarassing situation where a member of your directorate, who was an invited member of the Adam Davies expedition to Sumatra, giving out press releases with informing Mr Davies he was doing so

[thehighlandtiger]

sorry, slight misspelling, it should say "WITHOUT informing Mr Davies".

[thegwiber]

@thehighlandtiger

As far as I was aware, not having been involved much with the latest Sumatra expedition because I was in helping out a friend with a sick relative for large portions of the time the guys were on it, it was a JOINT expedition, like the previous one to Russia, and that Adam had contacted a number of his press contacts and the CFZ had contacted a number of theirs, nothing embarrassing occurred I'm sorry to disappoint you.

[thehighlandtiger]

I don't think that's quite how Adam saw it, this is a direct quote from him. "Firstly, I am not a member of the CFZ. That said, I have always supported their aims, and the other three members of the expedition team are members. I led the expedition, and invited those people on the team".

Also it cannot be denied that Richard Freeman contacted The Sun newspaper and gave them pictures of alleged Orang Pendek prints WITHOUT informing ANY of the other three members of the expedition

[thehighlandtiger]

In fact The Sun newspaper did not mention ANY of the other members of the expedition, BUT did mention Freeman and the CFZ, inspite of the fact that it was a privately funded expedition, with no finance whatsoever from the CFZ.

It seems that publicity is sometimes more important than integrity

[thegwiber]

@thehighlandtiger

As to Doc, I've met him and he's a nice chap, he is a dear old friend of Jon's who helped him through a difficult period in his life and Jon went to Ireland to see him. True, Doc is a controversial figure to many but his knowledge on certain subjects is second to none which is why he is a consultant.

Any new disclaimer would be because Jon has been updating the website the past week or so that's whatever conspiracy theory you had cooking there out of the window, sorry.

[thehighlandtiger]

LOL. Fair play, you want to defend the CFZ and Jon, but no-one will buy the coincidence you claim. Doc may be a "consultant" but Jon forgot to alter the fact that Doc IS a member of the CFZ and is down as the Eire representative of the CFZ.

As for conspiracy theories, I suggest you look to both Jon and your own comments regarding a certain "spambot" . It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if you have a newsblog that is nothing more than links in it, then the bots will flag it up

[Ragbagable]

So I joined 27th September 2009 - you joined 29th September 2009. Why did you join?

[Ragbagable]

thehighland tiger: Elsewhere there were accusations of him pulling a publicity stunt for the upcoming film about the CFZ and even censoring his blogs. What was changed in the FT article btw? And to what questions did he omit to mention the summoning by Tony Shiels? More to the point, why are you trying to slur his name again here? If you are so anti-Downes, why are you actually bothering to watch CFZtv? Are you being hired as a heckler?

Happy New Year by the way, pull a pint on me.

[thehighlandtiger]

Idiotic comments from the bottom feeders are just something you have to put up with on open forums. Perhaps Jon needs to grow a thicker skin, because most people just ignore them. Regarding the FT article, Jon was at pains to describe the actions of f the Doc, and unlike the initial comments on here, where he stressed Doc was only a minor part in the incident, according to the FT article he was the main protagonist. with his "magical powers"

[thehighlandtiger]

The other point was that again, initially Jon stressed that the visit to the lakes was an "off the cuff" unplanned visit. However according to the FT article, the visit was planned in order to take photo's for the CFZ records. I'm certainly not anti-CFZ. I just don't like it when people are economical with the truth.

[thehighlandtiger]

Finally, Jon knows full well that he HAS censored his blog in the past, when someone disagreed with what he was saying. (there was no bad language just a difference of views) There is no point dragging that incident out again, as it is now consigned to the past. I still visit the CFZ site and watch CFZTV because in between the banal comments and the neurotic conspiracy theories, there are some very interesting nuggets of information

[thegwiber]

Well perhaps he should ignore idiotic bottom feeders but when people who seem to have a mental age of 12 see fit to hound both him and the CFZ throughout a number of sites including youtube and cryptomundo I really don't think that it is Jon that is at fault.

[thehighlandtiger]

I have never "hounded" Jon on any site. I have always be courteous in my questions to date, I have never stooped to throwing out either abuse or accusations. And Jon to his credit, has always had the decency to take time to answer those questions I posed.

Calling me a 12 year old, just because I have the nerve to ask some questions regarding Jon's writings on here and in the FT, belittles you and the CFZ, rather than myself

[thehighlandtiger]

I'm not sure what you mean by "pull a pint on me", but if I'm ever down in Devon, you can certainly buy me a pint,.

And a Happy New Year to you as well

:o)

[Ragbagable]

thehighlandtiger : yes I believe Mr Downes did receive a torrent of abuse after posting the Killarney Lake video. This included abusive language here on YouTube by several persons who seem to think that the English language only consists of words beginning with F, being accused of falsifying the film by staging some sort of show, and even having some kind of sexual relationship with the youngster Max.

[Supageeksupafreek]

if that footage of that thing on the tree ...if its a porcupine can they climb trees?

[thehighlandtiger]

Yes they can climb trees, just google "porcupine in tree" and you'll see loads of similar images

[Supageeksupafreek]

@thehighlandtiger ty i actually didn't know that.

[Retrieverman1]

North American porcupines can climb trees. They also live very far north in the US and Canada.

Their main predator is the fisher-- a kind of large marten.

[thehighlandtiger]

Did Jon recieve a "torrent of abuse" following the Killarney Lake video? I don't think so, all that happened was that people pointed out the video showed birds taking off, not lake monsters. Which he grudgingly agreed with on the youtube comments. It a shame then, he thought fit to change certain facts in the Fortean Times article on the video, along with a bit about Doc Shiels "summoning" the monster of the lake, which he omitted to mention when answering questions before. Now why is that?.

[Retrieverman1]

Great Northern Divers are called common loons here. In fact, all Divers are loons to me.

Looks like an excellent documentary on out of place birds in Britain!

[1trip711]

rad!!!!