I agree with ndrthrdr1 calling alcoholism a disease is a cop out. AA and other spiritual cults depend on alcoholism being a disease. moderation is the key. as well as realizing you make your own decisions. labeling something a disease when it is not is emotionally immature.
'Disease' is a label you can put on anything. Alcoholism is a disease if you want to. I don't want to. I, and so many others, just need to snap out of it, find a new meaning to life.
your a fucking quack.its a disease. I've been living in recovery for about a year. I've been sober for 7 months now because i relapsed. i went back out drinking because my HEAD told me i could drink normally. turns out i cant, when i went back out i thought i was gonna have a drink or two, next thing i know i was fucking hammered. and i watched my best friend smoke crack?
how about you go back to school and learn some real shit instead of promoting fake shit.i'm kayla and im an alcoholic.
There's all these rationalist loonies trying to kill me - but at least I'm allowed to respond here! Most of 'em screen the responses. Of course it's a fucking disease because disease means dis-ease
Don't get me wrong guys...But I just watch a doc on jim morrison he was a full blown drunk...Jim if given another chance wouldn't listen to this old dude!!!....yah dig....thats why it's a disease..
The title of this clip is strictly true in the U.S. Legally and medically, there is no such condition, disorder, or disease called "alcoholism." The medical community and law enforcement are required to go by the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), which breaks problem drinking down to the diagnoses of "alcohol dependence" (7 criteria, 3 must be present over 1 year) and "alcohol abuse" (4 criteria, 1 must be present over 1 year).
AA depends on the same exact psychological mechanism as religions. I didn't last one year and believe it or not, I was actually asked to leave... privately after the meeting by someone who was convinced it wouldn't work for me (and it didn't) and furthermore that I was lowering the overall positive energy with my skepticism of the process. Pfft, whatever. They knew I was right but their "recovery" was completely dependent on the delusion that they were receiving help by some "higher power".
This guy is talking a complete crock of shit. Behaviour comes last of all. This boofhead of all people if in fact he's professionally qualified should know that it's your thinking that is astray & is the problem. Stinking thinking leads to emotional disorder leads to behavioural disorder. Geez ... get it right, huh ...
AA is acrock of bs.period. Bill W.was under the influence of a very strong narcotc when he had his awakining/vision...Check it out..I like your stinkin thinkin or you could say ..fake it till ya make it...haha...RATIONAL RECOVERY if you want to get it right.
I have no experience of alcholism but is not a disease of choice where the sufferer has lost a great deal of their ability to make intelligent healthy choices regarding their drinking habits?
@OutOnBailNow Lost the ability? No, I don't buy that. In fact, that's exactly what proponents of AA attempt to convince you of in order to render you "addicted" to recovery... doomed to never actually recover.
I wish I could remember who said this: "If addiction is a disease, it's the only disease known to medical science that is cured by adding absolutely nothing to the body."
"Oceanside treatment center Juno Beach florida" coerced medication compliance thrown out no refund for not taking zombie drugs !
Watch "abilify kills" on you tube it looks like me at this place. The client is always wrong at this place ! Nueroleptic zombie sobriety no thanks.
They thought it was a joke screwing with me like that . Give me a lab test for this chemical imbalance or a brain scan and show me ! Before I destroy my health with that poison.
I do not need N.A. or A.A., but all my logic tells me that substance-abuse is a mental disorder. Just like with all mental disorders, it is characterized by behavioral patterns that somehow causes great distress in the victim. The particular patterns that i associate with substance-abuse are many and quite complex. There are however a few simple patterns that reoccurs in every case of substance-abuse, like the circle of obsessing about the drug and doing the drug, obsessing, doing, etc.
Well, you can call any __________ a disease, if you like to, but everything that makes one think of alcoholism as a disease is in fact ___________; all the precepts of disease theory. The idea that it is inbred and lifelong. It's not. Most people overcome alcoholism. The idea that it’s inbred and it’s not susceptible to external ___________. This is wrong.
U want a disease?? Try ibd or polio or the black plague...THOSE r not self inflicted...if ur locked in a room with just food and water a disease will remain...alcoholism will not. Only a fool believes self infliction is a disease.
In 1991, The AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections.......... just sayin
The modern disease theory of alcoholism states that problem drinking is sometimes caused by a disease of the brain, characterized by altered brain structure and function.The existence of alcoholism as a disease is accepted by all within the medical and scientific communities, although critics exist. The American Medical Association (AMA) had declared that alcoholism was an illness in 1956.
Except praying ISNT part of the AA program . And governments DONT even support AA. . Im guessing your trying on the impossible question so you can drag out some government research grant they are handing out to you .
This guy is smart and brave!!! All we thinking people need to stand up and support clear thinking people like this, and STOP supporting the governments idiotic claims about SOOO many things! You know when you hear half the crap our government dishes out, when you hear it, that it's crap! So much information we are brainwashed into believing, just boils down to MONEY, and isn't even logical. IMPLEMENT THE PUBLIC VOTE ON IMPORTANT INDIVIDUAL ISSUES!!!
Drinking is a behavior pattern, not a disease. Alcohol is used as a coping mechanism. SMARTRecovery worked for me when a long, miserable year in the AA cult didn't.
No supernatural "spiritual" nonsense.
None of AA's faith healing nonsense.
No sponsors, who aren't qualified to be psychological counselors.
No invisible, magical superfriends.
No permanent dependence on a group of screwed up people.
@ndrthrdr1 500 meeting's...I admire your dedication. But i don't understand why you keep calling AA a ''cult''? Last i checked there was no sacrificing of virgins, no drinking of goats blood, no mass suicides no groups in black hooded robes chanting. It's just a bunch of people with common problems talking openly and trying to help each other live a happier healthy life, it's just a support group. Would you call a support group for cancer victims a cult ? or a support group for victims of rape?
@ndrthrdr1 I've never heard the "we think not" or "he's here" at any meeting, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on the chanting thing. What's SMARTRecovery? I've never heard of that. And you have to admit that even though AA my not have been for you and many share your opinion it has helped and continues to help countless others.
@hendersonjc SMARTRecovery (dotorg) is like a secular (science-based, developed by what gets the best results, rather than faith-based/Higher Power-based) AA.
SMART doesn't have sponsors or steps, just ways to deal with things like urges, cravings, stress, etc. It has actual meetings and online meetings/chat for group support and socializing.
For those of us who aren't religious, it's just what the Doctor ordered.
To each his/her own. Some SMART members also attend AA too - 2 support groups.
@ndrthrdr1 Somehow AA seems to work for some but I can't say I disagree with much of anything you stated after going to meetings with my wife for years. It's a cult plain and simple.
"The American Medical Association identifies alcoholism as a complex DISEASE with biological, psychological and sociological components and recognizes medicine's responsibility in behalf of affected persons. The Association recognizes that there are multiple forms of alcoholism, and that each patient should be evaluated and treated in an individualized and comprehensive manner."
@ndrthrdr1 No, because the particular use/abuse does not directly cause the victim to feel distress, pain and suffering. But lets agree that cigarettes can at least lead to very real diseases. And lets agree that there are particular behavioral patterns associated with smoking, that are quite similar to what happens in harder substance abuse and even other mental disorders. A smoker may have an obsessive thought (hey lets have a nice cig) and sometimes they compulsively smoke a cigarettes.
Calling alcoholism a "disease" is how alcoholics convince themselves that it isn't their fault. Oh pity you, you have a "disease". Calling it a disease implies that you cannot control it... why on Earth would you tell someone they have a disease when it's something they CHOOSE to do? It makes them think it's perfectly alright to drink. Everyone stop what you're doing! Stop all the AIDS and Cancer research... We need to help the "diseased" alcoholics!
If you went to AA you'd see that the "disease concept" is not used to encourage weakness but rather responsibility and healthy steps in the right direction. Part of the illness is denial that there is a problem that they can't "control" which causes it to spiral into the need to numb the pain with something.
"If you went to AA you'd see that the "disease concept" is not used to encourage weakness but rather responsibility and healthy steps in the right direction."
Yes, very true... At least, hopefully it SHOULD be true...
But, like any ideology, the disease doctrine can be used for dysfunctional purposes...
"I guess Dr Peele did not read the Goodwin studies"
Actually he did.
And he cited them in full in his seminal work "The Meaning of Addiction".
That research showed only a slight correlation between heredity and alcoholism. Did the Goodwin studies explain the 82% of children from alcoholic parentage that DID NOT become alcoholic? Did it explain the 5% of children that WERE NOT from alcoholic parents that DID become alcoholic?
Gotta do better than that to prove alcoholism = disease
You could go to an open AA meeting and participate in a discussion. Many of them start with closed minds but broaden their understanding after hearing countless accounts of first-hand, empirical experience. Some hold on to their opinions until they undeniably experience the disease entity themselves. And of course some are probably never convinced.
Do you agree that not observing it does not make it not valid, but immediate observation makes it more likely to be valid?
"Do you agree that not observing it does not make it not valid but immediate observation makes it more likely to be valid?"
Empiricism is about sensory verification. The foundation of scientific methodology. What you are talking about is subjective, qualitative interpretation - many times removed from sensory verification and saturated with sociocultural value.
In short, the disease concept is an INTERPRETATION of a psycho-emotional EXPERIENCE.
@daowest I think most of us know better at this point, or have done so. If you want bullying and abusive language thrown at you, go to a meeting questioning the disease model--only to be met with AA jargon, told you're a "dry drunk", "too angry", "in denial", etc. All the loopholes that self-validate the steps ideology. Once indoctrinated, of course people suddenly see the patterns of the "disease model" in their lives.
I don't think this guy has any first hand experience with alchoholism. if he did he would realise that one drink sets off the mental obsession that doesn't occur in a temperate drinker. what about studies done in regard to the physical nature of the disease ie, the fact that an alchoholic processes alchohol differently so that it makes it virtually impossible to stop. i've been sober 20 yrs and I can tell you there were very few times I could control my drinking.
"what about studies done in regard to the physical nature of the disease ie, the fact that an alchoholic processes alchohol differently so that it makes it virtually impossible to stop"
What studies are these?
I've researched the biomedical body of knowledge for 5 years and haven't found a shred of evidence for this alleged "metabolic anomaly" that pertains only to alcoholics.
It's an AA myth - nothing more, nothing less.
A citation to a research paper would be appreciated...
Read Darwin's Origin of Species idiot. You are saying what you say here and wearing suspenders because of genetic traits, its real simple; some are powerfully predisposed to adopt certain behaviors. This guy is an IDIOT and likely dangerous to ALL!!! ;(
@NiangoChan You are a vegetarian, because you are genetically predisposed to be. See what I mean? You and I type what we type because genetics make us highly likely to do so! Look at some of the amazing separated twin studies. Its hard to understand at first, but it goes deep. Do you really have self control over, breathing, for example? e ;)
@EmanEzone im a psychology/philosophy major so I'm well aware of twin studies and i didn't argue against the fact that genetics predispose us to behaviors. but you're forgetting the role environment plays. and im not just vegetarian. im vegan. and the first ever in my family
@NiangoChan Nice debate here. I am not forgetting anything, I have an advanced degree in Psychology myself. According the W.H.O, alcoholism is a primary disease. Again, try and exert some self control over your breathing, control is only an illusion. Again, it gets deep. Regards e ;)
@EmanEzone i agree there's a nice debate about free will etc. HOWEVER, the WHO classifying alcoholism as a disease means nothing to me. "science" and psychology are evolving all the time...and try to exert some control over your arm...you can lol
"im a psychology/philosophy major so I'm well aware of twin studies and i didn't argue against the fact that genetics predispose us to behaviors. but you're forgetting the role environment plays."
That's right!
The 1971 Goodwin twin studies show a very weak correlation at best...
Environment, culture in particular, is the major factor of influence in addictive behaviour...
@NiangoChan You are strongly driven to eat, what you eat as well; and to do things like smoking, even though you may know its not good. The term "to an extent" proves my point, the "extent" is little, when we are talking genetics .. ;) e
Aloha! My dad (Dick B.) has written more than 40 titles on why early A.A. succeeded (DickB dot com) and now has a channel on YouTube: "dickbchannel". What are your thoughts on his work? Thank you. Ken B.
Ah! I cited your old man in my honours thesis and PhD dissertation! ("The Good Book and the Big Book")
By going by an initial for his surname, it has created problems for my referencing.
My referencing program (Endnote) wont accept it as written. Thus I've had to reference him as B. Dick. I'm using the Harvard referencing style (like Stanton - no foot notes). Ask him if he's aware of this problem and if there's any way around it. If not, does he mind if I reference him as B. Dick?
"Maybe we should also consider what the American Medical Association has published about drug dependency (alcohol is but one drug.)"
Sure... I'm open to new knowledge...
I don't care what the AMA calls a disease...
All I care about is if they have published a peer review, empirical evidence that has identified a physiological disease entity that causes alcoholic behaviour.
And I know that they haven't.
Thus, alcoholism cannot be called a "disease" with scientific validity.
Alcoholism is a disguise for being UNHAPPY ; period. That's consciously unhappy, or unconsciously unhappy. If a person is unhappy with themselves deep down, they feel more need to try and escape themselves through anesthetic. It's THAT simple. It's NOT a disease on it's own ; merely a by product of unhappiness and depression. Anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid. FACT. The root of REAL unhappiness is in a range of possibilities occuring in childhood development and environment ; self esteem etc
Most (if not all) of the anti-AA spokespeople I have seen on youtube aren't alcoholics, so how on earth do they know what they're talking about? Alcoholism IS a disorder, call it whatever you want but it's all the same.
This man and everyone who agrees with him should read the big book of alcoholics anonymous. The doctors opinion is a very satisfying letter for people like me who suffer from the phenomenon of craving. Doctor bob and bill w started a wonder program based on spiritual progress rather than perfection. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Recovery begins when one alcoholic talks to another sharing experience strength and hope.
@MyKicksMatchtheStrap And in turn they inspired the people who have frankly been very ABUSIVE to plenty of us. Some "wonder program". I've got a message for Bill W., I have my own damned program, it works consistently and it only started working once I let my "self-will run amuck" and drive me away from your demented followers!
Sorry you had to get that rant, but dammit, I'm finally out about this garbage and the people it keeps KILLING. No more.
You come from the old school of ignorance Dr. Peele. I thought this video must've been made before the 80's. Alcoholism fits into the bi/psycho/social disease model. And besides,"shoe-horning" alcoholism into the disease category makes perfect pragmatic sense. Don't let this moron close your mind. Closed minds only hinder recovery; and that goes for anything.
"Alcoholism fits into the bi/psycho/social disease model."
The term "disease" is a strictly medical term. It refers to a physio-pathological disease ENTITY.
It has absolutely nothing to do with psychological or social dimensions.
And, after 225 years of the biomedical research and 80 years of intensive biomedical research, no such disease entity has been identified that produces alcoholic behaviour.
You cant perform an autopsy on an alcoholic and find a disease called "alcoholism".
"it is also used by the American Medical Association to classify drug dependence."
The AMA can name whatever they like as disease (and actually do so).
There is no - zip, zero zilch - biomedical evidence for a physio-pathological disease entity that causes alcoholic behaviour. And as I said, that is after 225 years of biomedical attention to the matter. It is little wonder then, that the consensus amongst biomedical researchers is that no such disease entity exists.
"Not everything is detectable in autopsy, including some heart disease; and everything that is detectable now was not detectable always"
So, you are saying that no evidence and a juggernaut of evidence to the contrary is a basis for alcoholism being caused by a physio-pathological anomaly?
We should definitively categorise alcoholism as a disease despite the lack of evidence for it, as well as a substantial body of evidence to the contrary?
"Peele did not successfully debunk anything since the debate is still going on"
The peer reviewed, conclusive research began in the late 1960s... The data itself has never been in dispute. The clinical research has never been disproved. Here are just a few of the pilot studies:
*Mendelson et al (1964) *Mello & Mendelson (1972) *Bigelow & Liebson (1972) *Cohen et al (1971a, 1971b) *Gottheil et al (1972) *Heather & Robertson (1981) *Pattison, Sobell & Sobell (1977) *Adesso (1985).
@travellinman321 That makes more sense than the above clip does. Nonetheless, I believe that argument is also flawed 'cause it rests on this false internal-external dichotomy. Obviously the external act of drinking is also merely symptomatic: the actual underlying problem/disease is psychological, and therefore no less internal than physical disease. It's just that the psyche is less tangible than is the heart... But is it truly less internal? Its problems less of an illness?
people are so pathetic they cant stop drinking just how some crack heads dont stop smoking crack, does that mean smokeing crack is a Disease? like get real. have a little willpower and dont drink. Pathetic.
With the same reasoning many heart problems too are not diseases: I) you can overcome them (by healthy lifestyle), II) they're susceptible to external factors (stress), III) social class matters: lower class = (more fast food =) higher chance of heart disease ... Are heart diseases therefore not diseases? The so-called arguments this man gives are completely besides the point.
@fanno399 you just you the disease concept as an excuse for your selfish immoral behavior!! If it is a disease, why do you feel guilty about it and write amends for it? it's a fucking cult!!!
@JakeMansonNYC I too have been to DC on occasion (last feb to the White House). We went to "Old Ebbitts Grille" afterward not far from there, a hangout for senators and the like. You are right. More friggin' drunks than you could shake a stick at. Hell, I am lower middle class at best, drive a truck and if anyone should have a reason to drink you would think it would be me! lol!
@travellinman321 Can you say PROJECTION. You keep proving my point. It's textbook!
Man, I'm staring to wonder if your reality testing is intact because your perceptions and interpretations are quite skewed. Very inaccurate assessment sir. (Except if you are describing yourself). I was done but I changed MY mind. I'm just not bothering changing YOUR mind. Can't graft to new idea on a closed mind. I'm open to providing options to people rather than limiting them, as you demonstrate.
The best way IS to help people help themselves.That's why I provide options, unlike you who is hell bent on discounting options that COULD help them. So sad for the person who was going to try a 12-step option, which MIGHT, help them. Big help u r. TOO ALL WHO SEEK HELP: I have many years working with people experiencing various emotional difficulties. This person does not seek solutions for you. Only his own agenda. BEWARE!!!
I agree that the powerless concept has spun out of control. What was once a good starting point for recovery has become an escape clause for chronic responsibility avoiders. And I'm not just talking about AA. This idea was the origin of western society's culture of "not-my-fault" and knee jerk litigation. But if the idea is reigned in somewhat (i.e. qualified) couldn't it be useful? Is the "alky" in control of his psycho-emotional system?
@Hammersley1967 as I once said, try taking exlax at bedtime and you will experience complete powerlessness. God along with these suggested 12 steps give you back power you never had. Other than that God is in complete control and holds all the power. I just use it when he allows it.
@travellinman321 You just keep proving my point., it is quite amazing. Very sad.I hope you are not in the field. You assume that I assume, and again your narcissistic character structure is quite apparent. No point continuing with an Axis II like yourself.My pt's have many options available that I point out to them.12-step one of them. Sometimes one can be so right that they are wrong.You can continue to try to prove your knowledge,but desperate people want options, not more closed doors.
@travellinman321 Your logic is interesting. Hmm, to go with your logic, why don't we let them die first, THEN you can "TEACH" THEM WITH YOUR APPARENT KNOWLEDGE THAT IS SO BASED IN GOODWILL AND BENOVOLENCE. Your seem to more interested in proving your point rather than helping someone with options. Im sure you can pontificate with the best of them and are are probably quite a philosopher. Probably intelligent as well. Although I may or may not be, my MOTIVE is to help.
The confusion and disagreement over "disease" stems from the separation of mind and body by the modern scientific project (Cartesian dualism). When we use "illness" to describe the MIND-BODY SYSTEM of the alcoholic, it makes perfect sense. Science uses reductionism and atomism to fragment reality so that we can incrementally understand the whole. However, ironically, when studying a systemic reality such as alcoholism, the fragmentation of reality only serves to obscure the object of knowledge.
How about that when I start drinking and can't stop! All the life problems are still the same and i'v been sober for 5.5 years! It has nothing to do with where your from, just ask the politicians who go get shit faced every night!
Yea your point? I HAVE NEVER SEEN A 12-STEP PROGRAM TURN SOMEONE INTO A PERSON THEY DID NOT WANT TO BE. I HAVE SEEN many people find peace and life long contentment that is not at the expense of anyone or anything else, by embracing the disease model.So thanks for sharing and influencing some sorry ass person who was seeking a way out of addiction to now buy into your opinion which offers NO help and may, in fact,deter them now from trying something that may help their life .DUDE, JUST GO AWAY!
Oh wow! A conservative wanting to label people as making that choice and there being no predisposition. Comfort in telling yourself it's all choice aye? I'm sorry, that's all BS, and I'm not discussing this further, I'm only here to add mine to many voices saying you don't know what you're talking about.
I think one of the reasons people are likely to become alcoholics is because of the image of the alcoholic portrayed on tv, commercials, and in the movies is of a middle aged man that resembles nick cage in leaving los vegas. I think people see this image and think that that lifestyle is a long ways away and they think they can drink in college and after college and not have to worry about ever becoming like the guy on tv or the guy in the movies when infact they can't go a weekend without booz
TELL ME MORE PLEASE.......tHERE IS A STATEMENT MADE HERE AND THERE IS NOTHING OFFERED BUT THE STATEMENT "IT IS NOT A DISEASE" OK THEN HELP ME AND TELL ME HOW TO STOP,,,,,PLEASE.
What scientific proof does this man have that alcoholism is not a disease. He has none. This is his opinion. He has been shut out of the scientific community
I agree with his overall point that using the word "disease" to label alcoholism is incorrect. However, if he intends to completely discount a genetic predisposition to a drinking problem, on that point he is very incorrect.
@Lunarwill Really then how does the "genetic predisposition" explain that nearly everyone in my family are alcoholics and by some mystery I'm not? What is more true is that certain choices and behaviors get learned and passed down through generations until someone comes along evolved enough to question the status quo. But go ahead and keep believing it's your genes that make you drink if it's easier for you.
@beautifulmind546 Respectfully. If you honestly believe that genes don't play a factor towards any predisposition or behavior, whether it is alcoholism, homosexuality, or being a piano virtuoso, then you are wrong. I have no idea who you are, so I can't speculate on your situation. Perhaps some people, based on personality or other environmental factors are able to more effectively overcome predispositions, or they might even skip generations, as genetic configurations are known to do.
@Lunarwill Sure genes play a role in certain things, how tall you will be, what your eye color will be, not whether or not you will be an alcoholic. Nope. I don't believe that because so far there is absolutely no legitimate evidence proving that. Ppl like to believe in things because it gives them comfort. See how an alcoholic would find comfort in believing that their choices to drink and be abusive were not really their fault because they were genetically predisposed? BeLIEfs are LIES
@beautifulmind546 Incidentally, you seem to be getting my point wrong. I'm not "sticking up" for the AA "victim mentality" necessarily. But as I said, if you deny genetic predisposition, you don't understand the fundamentals of biology.
@Lunarwill Show me any genetic markers for alcoholism. Show me any proof at all other than your assumption that it is genetic based other than it being common among family members. See the thing is if you aren't sticking up for the AA victim mentality then why are you presenting false claims that AA victims will use to further enable themselves to believe that their escapist abusive behavior happens because they are biologically prone rather than completely responsible for their actions?
@beautifulmind546 It's obvious that neither of us are going to make headway in this conversation, so I'll end it here. While science has made great strides in mapping the human genome, it's still a relatively new field. We have found potential genetic markers for things like predisposition to Alzheimer's and Crohn's disease. Certain physical anomalies in the structure of the brain contribute to certain behaviors. Best wishes.
@Lunarwill Actually you are making no headway because you have no proof. And now you are comparing alzheimers and Crohns disease to alcoholism? For real? There is NO comparison what so ever. The first two are diseases that cause physical pain and disfunction. Alcoholism is a choice that causes pain and disfunction to everyone having to deal with the alcoholic because they refuse to deal with their own lives. There is no genetic predisposition. It's learned behavior, repeated choices of selfishns
@WillsTube1 Your response (ad hominem attack) shows even further that it is you in fact who have turned off your brain to believe a lie. You STILL have no proof. Let me guess, you yourself are an abusive alcoholic and you need to believe in the lie that you drink because your abusive alcoholic dad did and that it was genetics and not your choice. Face facts: you learned this from your dad. He abused you and instead of making a different choice and healing yourself you became and abuser too. Sad.
@beautifulmind546 Ah yes. You must be one of those "compassionate Conservatives" that I've heard so much about. You know nothing about me or my personal life, and yet are willing to label me an alcoholic with no moral compass. Great job in taking the high road. What would Jesus do? He would berate me and call me a "Sad individual," and an abuser. Truly a place reserved in heaven for you and people like you. Best wishes.
@beautifulmind546 - I'm not reading all the comments, but I certainly know that some are highly predisposed to alcoholism, and others have zero chance of becoming alcoholics. One of the best markers is whether you feel amped up after a few drinks, or start getting sleepy, and also of course how much you can handle. Right from the get-go, I've always felt amped up drinking, and I've always been able to drink most under the table without even trying.
@Gokunama Nope that is not proof at all. Alcohol has a physical effect on everyone who consumes it despite what their reaction might be. Responsible people monitor their reactions and choose how much or how little to consume. There is no proof that this is a disease.
@IvIw2STiiTCH Neither are, in reality anyways. And medicine should never be the subject of public opinion. Which is unfortunately largely what it has become.
I'm with worldbfree2006 on this, also the worst kind of disease would be the one you can't see, or you can't put a label on it or diagnose it very easily
it is a disease of the mind. you can only keep it in check by maintaining it through group therapy, 12 stepping, etc. But once you have it, or you've crossed that line with drinking you will always have it.
This prick can kiss my ass... Alcoholism is a disease, the worst kind in fact. This disease affects people physically, mentally, and spiritually. Please stop posting videos like this. Alcoholism is the only disease you have to tell someone they have. Watching a video like this could potentially lead someone who is on the fence as to whether or not they have a problem to death. I respect your opinion, but please think about what you are doing...
@chakazulu87 You're not very smart. I did not say it was the worst disease I said it was the worst KIND of disease and there is a BIG difference. It is in a class with the worst diseases, at no point did I say it was the worst. No fatal disease is worse than another...
@WorldBFree2006 Yes fatal diseases are worse than the other. AIDS is worse than cancer . AIDS stops your body from fighting off the most common colds germs that goes into the system. However cancer a poison in the body (if found in early stages) and depending on the type is fatal serious but can go into remission or cured all together. Once you have A.I.D.S your just stuck with it. There numerous other examples debunking last thoughtless comment .....
@chakazulu87 Alcoholism/Addiction just like A.I.D.S., Cancer, and other fatal diseases can not be cured. It can only be arrested if treated and placed in remission. Fact is once an addict puts a drink or a drug in them (even one) the disease picks up right where it left off... There is no cure for cravings, urges, or physical withdrawal...
@WorldBFree2006 .... (contin) Do you not realise that all diseases or disorders fatal or unfatal have an effect physical, spritual, mental being. I think your the one who lacks intelligent disease.
I believe the incidence of most diseases change with class, lifestyle, stress, income, ethnicity, etc. I'm confused how this is an argument that alcholism is not a disease.
Of course, this assumes that there is only a single etiology of alcholism. There could be congenital and conditional alcoholics---some with an inborn problem and others who are reacting to adverse circumstances.
Alcoholism, like any addiction is a personal choice. People who claim alcoholism is a disease are cowards unwilling to face up to their problems. Alcoholism can CAUSE disease of the liver etc. but alcoholism is just a simple matter of pathetic people drinking to excess and not being bothered to stop. Cowards.
@michaeltbear You obviously have no experience with addiction to post something like this. I would never wish anyone to experience the shakes or to be dope-sick. But, I would like you to see what it's like and then call anyone who's dealt with them cowards..
I would say a person is only an alcoholic when they HAVE to drink. If they instead conquered the reason why they turned to alcohol to begin with, they would not HAVE to drink. Therefore I would term it as a way of escape which can become an addiction. That's my theory, please comment if you agree or disagree and why.
"Diseases have symptoms and can be diagnosed and cured. Tell me the symptoms of, and cure for, the 'disease' of alcoholism, if you will!"
Not every disease has a cure and the "disease" theory proponents will cite excessive compulsive drinking and the physical complications of that excessive compulsive drinking as the symptomology.
The real objection to the disease theory is that there is no identifiable etiology (cause) and no disease entity (somatic expression) of alcoholism...
I agree with ndrthrdr1 calling alcoholism a disease is a cop out. AA and other spiritual cults depend on alcoholism being a disease. moderation is the key. as well as realizing you make your own decisions. labeling something a disease when it is not is emotionally immature.
hobbicles28 1 day ago
'Disease' is a label you can put on anything. Alcoholism is a disease if you want to. I don't want to. I, and so many others, just need to snap out of it, find a new meaning to life.
sarlokkin 4 days ago
Interesting, I am sober over 3 years. It was AA who told me it was a disease. but I have never been convinced of that myself.
sugarplumfairiie 6 days ago
your a fucking quack.its a disease. I've been living in recovery for about a year. I've been sober for 7 months now because i relapsed. i went back out drinking because my HEAD told me i could drink normally. turns out i cant, when i went back out i thought i was gonna have a drink or two, next thing i know i was fucking hammered. and i watched my best friend smoke crack?
how about you go back to school and learn some real shit instead of promoting fake shit.i'm kayla and im an alcoholic.
Wowfml 1 week ago
There's all these rationalist loonies trying to kill me - but at least I'm allowed to respond here! Most of 'em screen the responses. Of course it's a fucking disease because disease means dis-ease
eruptionista 1 week ago
"Most people overcome alcoholism." Not true. Less than 10% of all heavy drinkers who are clinical alcoholcs ever recover.
Plainsfyre 1 week ago
@Plainsfyre
I have always heard this type of statistic, but have you any idea where the stats come from ?
sugarplumfairiie 6 days ago
Don't get me wrong guys...But I just watch a doc on jim morrison he was a full blown drunk...Jim if given another chance wouldn't listen to this old dude!!!....yah dig....thats why it's a disease..
RyDawg084 3 weeks ago
The cure for alcoholism is a teetotal nagging wife. Worked for me.
homersimps1 4 weeks ago
The title of this clip is strictly true in the U.S. Legally and medically, there is no such condition, disorder, or disease called "alcoholism." The medical community and law enforcement are required to go by the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders), which breaks problem drinking down to the diagnoses of "alcohol dependence" (7 criteria, 3 must be present over 1 year) and "alcohol abuse" (4 criteria, 1 must be present over 1 year).
"Alcohol-ISM" is a philosophy.
BlatzBeer 4 weeks ago
AA depends on the same exact psychological mechanism as religions. I didn't last one year and believe it or not, I was actually asked to leave... privately after the meeting by someone who was convinced it wouldn't work for me (and it didn't) and furthermore that I was lowering the overall positive energy with my skepticism of the process. Pfft, whatever. They knew I was right but their "recovery" was completely dependent on the delusion that they were receiving help by some "higher power".
PainAddict666 1 month ago
This guy is talking a complete crock of shit. Behaviour comes last of all. This boofhead of all people if in fact he's professionally qualified should know that it's your thinking that is astray & is the problem. Stinking thinking leads to emotional disorder leads to behavioural disorder. Geez ... get it right, huh ...
colindominy 1 month ago
AA is acrock of bs.period. Bill W.was under the influence of a very strong narcotc when he had his awakining/vision...Check it out..I like your stinkin thinkin or you could say ..fake it till ya make it...haha...RATIONAL RECOVERY if you want to get it right.
coondog1964 1 month ago
I have no experience of alcholism but is not a disease of choice where the sufferer has lost a great deal of their ability to make intelligent healthy choices regarding their drinking habits?
OutOnBailNow 1 month ago
@OutOnBailNow Lost the ability? No, I don't buy that. In fact, that's exactly what proponents of AA attempt to convince you of in order to render you "addicted" to recovery... doomed to never actually recover.
PainAddict666 1 month ago
I wish I could remember who said this: "If addiction is a disease, it's the only disease known to medical science that is cured by adding absolutely nothing to the body."
BlatzBeer 2 months ago
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"Oceanside treatment center Juno Beach florida" coerced medication compliance thrown out no refund for not taking zombie drugs !
Watch "abilify kills" on you tube it looks like me at this place. The client is always wrong at this place ! Nueroleptic zombie sobriety no thanks.
They thought it was a joke screwing with me like that . Give me a lab test for this chemical imbalance or a brain scan and show me ! Before I destroy my health with that poison.
AkathisiA101 2 months ago
I do not need N.A. or A.A., but all my logic tells me that substance-abuse is a mental disorder. Just like with all mental disorders, it is characterized by behavioral patterns that somehow causes great distress in the victim. The particular patterns that i associate with substance-abuse are many and quite complex. There are however a few simple patterns that reoccurs in every case of substance-abuse, like the circle of obsessing about the drug and doing the drug, obsessing, doing, etc.
mortenrobinson 2 months ago
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mortenrobinson 2 months ago
Well, you can call any __________ a disease, if you like to, but everything that makes one think of alcoholism as a disease is in fact ___________; all the precepts of disease theory. The idea that it is inbred and lifelong. It's not. Most people overcome alcoholism. The idea that it’s inbred and it’s not susceptible to external ___________. This is wrong.
HELP ME PLEASE!
giuliarf1473 2 months ago
Oh youtube comments are so educational haha, nice to see so many people have the world figured out lol
hendersonjc 2 months ago 2
U want a disease?? Try ibd or polio or the black plague...THOSE r not self inflicted...if ur locked in a room with just food and water a disease will remain...alcoholism will not. Only a fool believes self infliction is a disease.
kingkyzr 2 months ago 2
Thanku...alcoholism IS NOT a disease...im sick of whinos whining that they r victims of a uncontroeble disease. Total bs
kingkyzr 2 months ago
In 1991, The AMA further endorsed the dual classification of alcoholism by the International Classification of Diseases under both psychiatric and medical sections.......... just sayin
hendersonjc 2 months ago
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hendersonjc 2 months ago
The modern disease theory of alcoholism states that problem drinking is sometimes caused by a disease of the brain, characterized by altered brain structure and function.The existence of alcoholism as a disease is accepted by all within the medical and scientific communities, although critics exist. The American Medical Association (AMA) had declared that alcoholism was an illness in 1956.
hendersonjc 2 months ago
Except praying ISNT part of the AA program . And governments DONT even support AA. . Im guessing your trying on the impossible question so you can drag out some government research grant they are handing out to you .
mushrooman357 2 months ago
Last I checked alcoholism had a heritability of about 50 - 70 %.
waksibra 2 months ago
It changes the chemicals in your brain and makes you dependent o.
workingclassbum 2 months ago
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hendersonjc 2 months ago
@hendersonjc If you're an alcoholic and a member of AA, your "serenity" is showing.
Fuck off.
dimefeet 2 months ago
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hendersonjc 2 months ago
@hendersonjc Dimefeet is a girl, dimwit.
Parrot AA cult dogma much? Cultie wanna cracker!
ndrthrdr1 2 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 well played....well played haha
hendersonjc 2 months ago
Buddy , YOU ARE SO FULL OF SHIT , NEVER HEARD SUCH GARBAGE IN MY LIFE,
AA ISNT FAITH HEALING EITHER DICKHEAD ,
ITS OBVIOUS YOU HAVNT DONE AN IOTA OF RESEARCH AND YOU GOT YOUR DOCTORATE IN PHILOSIPHY, WHICH AS WE ALL KNOW IS ANOTHER WORD FOR BULLSHIT...
THE WORRY WITH DRONGOS LIKE YOU WITH SO-CALLED DEGREES IS THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE YOU.
mushrooman357 2 months ago
@mushrooman357 Faith healing is praying and expecting to get some divine intervention in the battle against a disease.
That's exactly what AA's ridiculous "program" is all about.
That's why it doesn't work.
dimefeet 2 months ago
This guy is smart and brave!!! All we thinking people need to stand up and support clear thinking people like this, and STOP supporting the governments idiotic claims about SOOO many things! You know when you hear half the crap our government dishes out, when you hear it, that it's crap! So much information we are brainwashed into believing, just boils down to MONEY, and isn't even logical. IMPLEMENT THE PUBLIC VOTE ON IMPORTANT INDIVIDUAL ISSUES!!!
princessmilagro 3 months ago
Drinking is a behavior pattern, not a disease. Alcohol is used as a coping mechanism. SMARTRecovery worked for me when a long, miserable year in the AA cult didn't.
No supernatural "spiritual" nonsense.
None of AA's faith healing nonsense.
No sponsors, who aren't qualified to be psychological counselors.
No invisible, magical superfriends.
No permanent dependence on a group of screwed up people.
No learned helplessness (powerlessness).
A far higher success rate.
AA sucks.
ndrthrdr1 3 months ago 13
@ndrthrdr1 a whole year ?????? wow long time, how did you ever get through that ?
hendersonjc 2 months ago
@hendersonjc With over 500 meetings during that year, and at several different groups, I saw more than enough of AA to see that it's full of fail.
I only stayed for the last few months hoping to rescue a few new and naive cult newbies.
It was really bizarre, but it's over - like a bad dream.
ndrthrdr1 2 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 500 meeting's...I admire your dedication. But i don't understand why you keep calling AA a ''cult''? Last i checked there was no sacrificing of virgins, no drinking of goats blood, no mass suicides no groups in black hooded robes chanting. It's just a bunch of people with common problems talking openly and trying to help each other live a happier healthy life, it's just a support group. Would you call a support group for cancer victims a cult ? or a support group for victims of rape?
hendersonjc 2 months ago
@hendersonjc Scientology is a cult, too, but they don't do any of those sacrifices or blood-drinking.
All of the meetings do chant the Lord's Prayer in unison at the end of the meeting, and yet still insist that AA is "spiritual, not religious."
The reader: "Are these extravagant promises?" In unison, the members chant "We think not"
About God, the reader: "May you find him now." People chant in unison "He's here!"
If it were only a support group, like SMARTRecovery, I'd still go to AA.
ndrthrdr1 2 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 I've never heard the "we think not" or "he's here" at any meeting, so we'll just have to agree to disagree on the chanting thing. What's SMARTRecovery? I've never heard of that. And you have to admit that even though AA my not have been for you and many share your opinion it has helped and continues to help countless others.
hendersonjc 2 months ago
@hendersonjc SMARTRecovery (dotorg) is like a secular (science-based, developed by what gets the best results, rather than faith-based/Higher Power-based) AA.
SMART doesn't have sponsors or steps, just ways to deal with things like urges, cravings, stress, etc. It has actual meetings and online meetings/chat for group support and socializing.
For those of us who aren't religious, it's just what the Doctor ordered.
To each his/her own. Some SMART members also attend AA too - 2 support groups.
ndrthrdr1 2 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 Somehow AA seems to work for some but I can't say I disagree with much of anything you stated after going to meetings with my wife for years. It's a cult plain and simple.
kurtizzyflush 1 month ago
@ndrthrdr1
"A far higher success rate."
EVIDENCE?
Hammersley1967 1 month ago
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@ndrthrdr1
"A far higher success rate."
You've been spamming this nonsense incessantly all over youtube...
Do you have even a shred of evidence to support this baseless claim?
If you don't, then why do you keep posting it?
Ever heard of indoctrination?
Hammersley1967 2 weeks ago
We placed a naturopathic approach for alcoholism on our channel in the comment section. It should remain posted for a few weeks.
HEVNAWE 3 months ago
"The American Medical Association identifies alcoholism as a complex DISEASE with biological, psychological and sociological components and recognizes medicine's responsibility in behalf of affected persons. The Association recognizes that there are multiple forms of alcoholism, and that each patient should be evaluated and treated in an individualized and comprehensive manner."
-House of Delegates
American Medical Association, 1971
TheScraps666 3 months ago
@TheScraps666 That was only after intensive lobbying by those who stood to profit if it were declared a disease.
How many diseases have been declared so after such lobbying? None that I know of. It's a scam.
Is addiction to cigarettes a disease?
How about nail biting?
ndrthrdr1 3 months ago 6
@ndrthrdr1 No, because the particular use/abuse does not directly cause the victim to feel distress, pain and suffering. But lets agree that cigarettes can at least lead to very real diseases. And lets agree that there are particular behavioral patterns associated with smoking, that are quite similar to what happens in harder substance abuse and even other mental disorders. A smoker may have an obsessive thought (hey lets have a nice cig) and sometimes they compulsively smoke a cigarettes.
mortenrobinson 2 months ago
If more people accessed their medical records many of them
should not be surprised to learn they have a history of alcohol
abuse but mainly those who have been misdiagnosed or had
problems with the medical proffession I have over 20 Gallons
of spirits in my drinks cellar, i enjoy the odd single malt and
my medical records show me to have "a history of excessive
alchohol intake" Idid not have the record in 1993 according to
an independant report but did after the events of july 16 1996.
ugizzat 3 months ago
Disease or not. Alcohol abuse needs to be treated and the person who is into it should be helped by means of rehabilitation and treatment.
Intoactionrehab 3 months ago
Calling alcoholism a "disease" is how alcoholics convince themselves that it isn't their fault. Oh pity you, you have a "disease". Calling it a disease implies that you cannot control it... why on Earth would you tell someone they have a disease when it's something they CHOOSE to do? It makes them think it's perfectly alright to drink. Everyone stop what you're doing! Stop all the AIDS and Cancer research... We need to help the "diseased" alcoholics!
GrimmReaperess 4 months ago
Right on
For those who believe otherwise
Prove me wrong, give me a dose of the infected cells
drbarco 4 months ago 2
If you went to AA you'd see that the "disease concept" is not used to encourage weakness but rather responsibility and healthy steps in the right direction. Part of the illness is denial that there is a problem that they can't "control" which causes it to spiral into the need to numb the pain with something.
my12steptruth 4 months ago
@my12steptruth
"If you went to AA you'd see that the "disease concept" is not used to encourage weakness but rather responsibility and healthy steps in the right direction."
Yes, very true... At least, hopefully it SHOULD be true...
But, like any ideology, the disease doctrine can be used for dysfunctional purposes...
Hammersley1967 4 months ago
I guess Dr. Peele did not read the Goodwin
studies...............
trocarboy 4 months ago
@trocarboy
"I guess Dr Peele did not read the Goodwin studies"
Actually he did.
And he cited them in full in his seminal work "The Meaning of Addiction".
That research showed only a slight correlation between heredity and alcoholism. Did the Goodwin studies explain the 82% of children from alcoholic parentage that DID NOT become alcoholic? Did it explain the 5% of children that WERE NOT from alcoholic parents that DID become alcoholic?
Gotta do better than that to prove alcoholism = disease
Hammersley1967 4 months ago
You could go to an open AA meeting and participate in a discussion. Many of them start with closed minds but broaden their understanding after hearing countless accounts of first-hand, empirical experience. Some hold on to their opinions until they undeniably experience the disease entity themselves. And of course some are probably never convinced.
Do you agree that not observing it does not make it not valid, but immediate observation makes it more likely to be valid?
daowest 4 months ago
@daowest
"Do you agree that not observing it does not make it not valid but immediate observation makes it more likely to be valid?"
Empiricism is about sensory verification. The foundation of scientific methodology. What you are talking about is subjective, qualitative interpretation - many times removed from sensory verification and saturated with sociocultural value.
In short, the disease concept is an INTERPRETATION of a psycho-emotional EXPERIENCE.
Where is the PHYSICAL disease entity?
Hammersley1967 4 months ago
@daowest I think most of us know better at this point, or have done so. If you want bullying and abusive language thrown at you, go to a meeting questioning the disease model--only to be met with AA jargon, told you're a "dry drunk", "too angry", "in denial", etc. All the loopholes that self-validate the steps ideology. Once indoctrinated, of course people suddenly see the patterns of the "disease model" in their lives.
LexeconKiddo 4 months ago 2
I don't think this guy has any first hand experience with alchoholism. if he did he would realise that one drink sets off the mental obsession that doesn't occur in a temperate drinker. what about studies done in regard to the physical nature of the disease ie, the fact that an alchoholic processes alchohol differently so that it makes it virtually impossible to stop. i've been sober 20 yrs and I can tell you there were very few times I could control my drinking.
karlcrawford 4 months ago
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@karlcrawford
"what about studies done in regard to the physical nature of the disease ie, the fact that an alchoholic processes alchohol differently so that it makes it virtually impossible to stop"
What studies are these?
I've researched the biomedical body of knowledge for 5 years and haven't found a shred of evidence for this alleged "metabolic anomaly" that pertains only to alcoholics.
It's an AA myth - nothing more, nothing less.
A citation to a research paper would be appreciated...
Hammersley1967 4 months ago
This dudes a fucking tool
zachplude 5 months ago
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you are wrong.
ForDoverUSA 5 months ago
Read Darwin's Origin of Species idiot. You are saying what you say here and wearing suspenders because of genetic traits, its real simple; some are powerfully predisposed to adopt certain behaviors. This guy is an IDIOT and likely dangerous to ALL!!! ;(
EmanEzone 5 months ago
@EmanEzone it's genetics that predispose us to adopt all behaviors...that doesn't make them diseases...a behavior is just that
NiangoChan 5 months ago
@NiangoChan People/Animals are also genetically predisposed to have diseases. Do you have a choice to have cancer or not? e ;)
EmanEzone 5 months ago
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NiangoChan 5 months ago
Respond to this video... actually we do to an extent...your diet is a *huge* factor
NiangoChan 5 months ago
@NiangoChan You are strongly driven to eat, what you eat as well; and to do things like smoking, even though you may know its not good.. ;) e
EmanEzone 5 months ago
@EmanEzone people can choose to eat whatever they want...i'm vegan for instance...get some self control and will power
NiangoChan 5 months ago
@NiangoChan You are a vegetarian, because you are genetically predisposed to be. See what I mean? You and I type what we type because genetics make us highly likely to do so! Look at some of the amazing separated twin studies. Its hard to understand at first, but it goes deep. Do you really have self control over, breathing, for example? e ;)
EmanEzone 5 months ago
@EmanEzone im a psychology/philosophy major so I'm well aware of twin studies and i didn't argue against the fact that genetics predispose us to behaviors. but you're forgetting the role environment plays. and im not just vegetarian. im vegan. and the first ever in my family
NiangoChan 5 months ago
@NiangoChan Nice debate here. I am not forgetting anything, I have an advanced degree in Psychology myself. According the W.H.O, alcoholism is a primary disease. Again, try and exert some self control over your breathing, control is only an illusion. Again, it gets deep. Regards e ;)
EmanEzone 5 months ago
@EmanEzone i agree there's a nice debate about free will etc. HOWEVER, the WHO classifying alcoholism as a disease means nothing to me. "science" and psychology are evolving all the time...and try to exert some control over your arm...you can lol
NiangoChan 5 months ago
@NiangoChan Again, control is an illusion. e ;)
EmanEzone 5 months ago
@EmanEzone
"Again, control is an illusion. e ;)"
Yep, but that's experiential wisdom you're talking there...
Explaining that to someone who can't "see" it, is like explaining colour to someone that's been blind since birth...
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
@NiangoChan
"im a psychology/philosophy major so I'm well aware of twin studies and i didn't argue against the fact that genetics predispose us to behaviors. but you're forgetting the role environment plays."
That's right!
The 1971 Goodwin twin studies show a very weak correlation at best...
Environment, culture in particular, is the major factor of influence in addictive behaviour...
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
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@NiangoChan You are strongly driven to eat, what you eat as well; and to do things like smoking, even though you may know its not good. The term "to an extent" proves my point, the "extent" is little, when we are talking genetics .. ;) e
EmanEzone 5 months ago
Aloha! My dad (Dick B.) has written more than 40 titles on why early A.A. succeeded (DickB dot com) and now has a channel on YouTube: "dickbchannel". What are your thoughts on his work? Thank you. Ken B.
Episcopos1 5 months ago
@Episcopos1
Ah! I cited your old man in my honours thesis and PhD dissertation! ("The Good Book and the Big Book")
By going by an initial for his surname, it has created problems for my referencing.
My referencing program (Endnote) wont accept it as written. Thus I've had to reference him as B. Dick. I'm using the Harvard referencing style (like Stanton - no foot notes). Ask him if he's aware of this problem and if there's any way around it. If not, does he mind if I reference him as B. Dick?
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
Maybe we should also consider what the American Medical Association has published about drug dependency (alcohol is but one drug.)
ama-assn.org/resources/doc/alcohol/alcoholism_treatable.pdf
daowest 5 months ago
@daowest
"Maybe we should also consider what the American Medical Association has published about drug dependency (alcohol is but one drug.)"
Sure... I'm open to new knowledge...
I don't care what the AMA calls a disease...
All I care about is if they have published a peer review, empirical evidence that has identified a physiological disease entity that causes alcoholic behaviour.
And I know that they haven't.
Thus, alcoholism cannot be called a "disease" with scientific validity.
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
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Ok. You win the battle of ego.
daowest 5 months ago
Alcoholism is a disguise for being UNHAPPY ; period. That's consciously unhappy, or unconsciously unhappy. If a person is unhappy with themselves deep down, they feel more need to try and escape themselves through anesthetic. It's THAT simple. It's NOT a disease on it's own ; merely a by product of unhappiness and depression. Anyone who thinks otherwise is stupid. FACT. The root of REAL unhappiness is in a range of possibilities occuring in childhood development and environment ; self esteem etc
TheKenfig 5 months ago
Most (if not all) of the anti-AA spokespeople I have seen on youtube aren't alcoholics, so how on earth do they know what they're talking about? Alcoholism IS a disorder, call it whatever you want but it's all the same.
TalulahsDaddy 6 months ago
This man and everyone who agrees with him should read the big book of alcoholics anonymous. The doctors opinion is a very satisfying letter for people like me who suffer from the phenomenon of craving. Doctor bob and bill w started a wonder program based on spiritual progress rather than perfection. Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Recovery begins when one alcoholic talks to another sharing experience strength and hope.
MyKicksMatchtheStrap 6 months ago
@MyKicksMatchtheStrap And in turn they inspired the people who have frankly been very ABUSIVE to plenty of us. Some "wonder program". I've got a message for Bill W., I have my own damned program, it works consistently and it only started working once I let my "self-will run amuck" and drive me away from your demented followers!
Sorry you had to get that rant, but dammit, I'm finally out about this garbage and the people it keeps KILLING. No more.
LexeconKiddo 4 months ago
You come from the old school of ignorance Dr. Peele. I thought this video must've been made before the 80's. Alcoholism fits into the bi/psycho/social disease model. And besides,"shoe-horning" alcoholism into the disease category makes perfect pragmatic sense. Don't let this moron close your mind. Closed minds only hinder recovery; and that goes for anything.
daowest 6 months ago
@daowest
"You come from the old school of ignorance Dr. Peele. I thought this video must've been made before the 80's."
You have your history arse about...
The "old school of ignorance" is the 1930s - 1970s disease paradigm of alcohology.
Peele and others changed the alcohology theory field throughout the 1970s. They successfully debunked the "biochemically driven compulsion" model.
The cognitive/behavioral and psychosocial paradigm of research and theory is the "new (revisionist) school".
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
@daowest
"Alcoholism fits into the bi/psycho/social disease model."
The term "disease" is a strictly medical term. It refers to a physio-pathological disease ENTITY.
It has absolutely nothing to do with psychological or social dimensions.
And, after 225 years of the biomedical research and 80 years of intensive biomedical research, no such disease entity has been identified that produces alcoholic behaviour.
You cant perform an autopsy on an alcoholic and find a disease called "alcoholism".
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
@Hammersley1967
I wasn't referring to an actual "school."
Peele did not successfully debunk anything since the debate is still going on.
Yes, "disease" is a medical term; it is also used by the American Medical Association to classify drug dependence.
Not everything is detectable in autopsy, including some heart disease; and everything that is detectable now was not detectable always.
daowest 5 months ago
@daowest
":I wasn't referring to an actual "school." "
That is a given... I understand that you were referring to a paradigm of theory and research...
As such, it is the old paradigm of theory and research.
It has been empirically superseded by the newer psychosocial and cognitive-behavioural paradigm.
The disease model has been around since 1930. The revisionist paradigm began in the late 1960s and gained momentum throughout the 1970s.
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
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Hammersley1967 5 months ago
"it is also used by the American Medical Association to classify drug dependence."
The AMA can name whatever they like as disease (and actually do so).
There is no - zip, zero zilch - biomedical evidence for a physio-pathological disease entity that causes alcoholic behaviour. And as I said, that is after 225 years of biomedical attention to the matter. It is little wonder then, that the consensus amongst biomedical researchers is that no such disease entity exists.
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
@Hammersley1967
Where can I find evidence of this consensus of biomedical researchers?
daowest 5 months ago
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@daowest
"Where can I find evidence of this consensus of biomedical researchers?"
Review the body of biomedical research...
Just as I have over the past 5 years...
There is an abundance of hypothesis, conjecture, and weak correlative data...
But absolutely no empirical evidence that has identified physio-pathological cause for alcoholic behaviour...
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
@daowest
"Not everything is detectable in autopsy, including some heart disease; and everything that is detectable now was not detectable always"
So, you are saying that no evidence and a juggernaut of evidence to the contrary is a basis for alcoholism being caused by a physio-pathological anomaly?
We should definitively categorise alcoholism as a disease despite the lack of evidence for it, as well as a substantial body of evidence to the contrary?
Sorry, science doesn't work that way...
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
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@daowest
"Peele did not successfully debunk anything since the debate is still going on"
The peer reviewed, conclusive research began in the late 1960s... The data itself has never been in dispute. The clinical research has never been disproved. Here are just a few of the pilot studies:
*Mendelson et al (1964) *Mello & Mendelson (1972) *Bigelow & Liebson (1972) *Cohen et al (1971a, 1971b) *Gottheil et al (1972) *Heather & Robertson (1981) *Pattison, Sobell & Sobell (1977) *Adesso (1985).
Hammersley1967 5 months ago
@travellinman321 That makes more sense than the above clip does. Nonetheless, I believe that argument is also flawed 'cause it rests on this false internal-external dichotomy. Obviously the external act of drinking is also merely symptomatic: the actual underlying problem/disease is psychological, and therefore no less internal than physical disease. It's just that the psyche is less tangible than is the heart... But is it truly less internal? Its problems less of an illness?
re1nier 6 months ago
You're right. I drink because I was brought up around alcohol.
My parents used to get drunk around me all the time. That rubbed off on me.
boldswede 6 months ago
people are so pathetic they cant stop drinking just how some crack heads dont stop smoking crack, does that mean smokeing crack is a Disease? like get real. have a little willpower and dont drink. Pathetic.
underoath228 6 months ago
With the same reasoning many heart problems too are not diseases: I) you can overcome them (by healthy lifestyle), II) they're susceptible to external factors (stress), III) social class matters: lower class = (more fast food =) higher chance of heart disease ... Are heart diseases therefore not diseases? The so-called arguments this man gives are completely besides the point.
re1nier 6 months ago
@fanno399 people with bipolar and ADHD are not told to attend meetings to discuss their imoral and wicked behavior!
karmalevel 6 months ago
@fanno399 you just you the disease concept as an excuse for your selfish immoral behavior!! If it is a disease, why do you feel guilty about it and write amends for it? it's a fucking cult!!!
karmalevel 6 months ago
I agree with this guy. It's not only alcoholism but a whole lot of other problems are being classified as a "disease".
jebus0000000 6 months ago
@JakeMansonNYC I too have been to DC on occasion (last feb to the White House). We went to "Old Ebbitts Grille" afterward not far from there, a hangout for senators and the like. You are right. More friggin' drunks than you could shake a stick at. Hell, I am lower middle class at best, drive a truck and if anyone should have a reason to drink you would think it would be me! lol!
bunkman64 6 months ago
@travellinman321 Can you say PROJECTION. You keep proving my point. It's textbook!
Man, I'm staring to wonder if your reality testing is intact because your perceptions and interpretations are quite skewed. Very inaccurate assessment sir. (Except if you are describing yourself). I was done but I changed MY mind. I'm just not bothering changing YOUR mind. Can't graft to new idea on a closed mind. I'm open to providing options to people rather than limiting them, as you demonstrate.
Miked4doom 7 months ago
@travellinman321 Exactly. you evidence my point again. AXIS II.
The best way IS to help people help themselves.That's why I provide options, unlike you who is hell bent on discounting options that COULD help them. So sad for the person who was going to try a 12-step option, which MIGHT, help them. Big help u r. TOO ALL WHO SEEK HELP: I have many years working with people experiencing various emotional difficulties. This person does not seek solutions for you. Only his own agenda. BEWARE!!!
Miked4doom 7 months ago
@Miked4doom
But my Mummy says that I'm a Big Boy because I can blow bubbles in the bath...
Hammersley1967 7 months ago
@travellinman321
"insisting on their own powerlessness"
I agree that the powerless concept has spun out of control. What was once a good starting point for recovery has become an escape clause for chronic responsibility avoiders. And I'm not just talking about AA. This idea was the origin of western society's culture of "not-my-fault" and knee jerk litigation. But if the idea is reigned in somewhat (i.e. qualified) couldn't it be useful? Is the "alky" in control of his psycho-emotional system?
Hammersley1967 7 months ago
@Hammersley1967 as I once said, try taking exlax at bedtime and you will experience complete powerlessness. God along with these suggested 12 steps give you back power you never had. Other than that God is in complete control and holds all the power. I just use it when he allows it.
stephy072770 6 months ago
@stephy072770
But you understand what I'm saying there don't you?
Hammersley1967 6 months ago
@travellinman321 You just keep proving my point., it is quite amazing. Very sad.I hope you are not in the field. You assume that I assume, and again your narcissistic character structure is quite apparent. No point continuing with an Axis II like yourself.My pt's have many options available that I point out to them.12-step one of them. Sometimes one can be so right that they are wrong.You can continue to try to prove your knowledge,but desperate people want options, not more closed doors.
Miked4doom 7 months ago
@travellinman321 Your logic is interesting. Hmm, to go with your logic, why don't we let them die first, THEN you can "TEACH" THEM WITH YOUR APPARENT KNOWLEDGE THAT IS SO BASED IN GOODWILL AND BENOVOLENCE. Your seem to more interested in proving your point rather than helping someone with options. Im sure you can pontificate with the best of them and are are probably quite a philosopher. Probably intelligent as well. Although I may or may not be, my MOTIVE is to help.
Miked4doom 7 months ago
The confusion and disagreement over "disease" stems from the separation of mind and body by the modern scientific project (Cartesian dualism). When we use "illness" to describe the MIND-BODY SYSTEM of the alcoholic, it makes perfect sense. Science uses reductionism and atomism to fragment reality so that we can incrementally understand the whole. However, ironically, when studying a systemic reality such as alcoholism, the fragmentation of reality only serves to obscure the object of knowledge.
Hammersley1967 7 months ago
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Hammersley1967 7 months ago
How about that when I start drinking and can't stop! All the life problems are still the same and i'v been sober for 5.5 years! It has nothing to do with where your from, just ask the politicians who go get shit faced every night!
eazyevan1 7 months ago
Yea your point? I HAVE NEVER SEEN A 12-STEP PROGRAM TURN SOMEONE INTO A PERSON THEY DID NOT WANT TO BE. I HAVE SEEN many people find peace and life long contentment that is not at the expense of anyone or anything else, by embracing the disease model.So thanks for sharing and influencing some sorry ass person who was seeking a way out of addiction to now buy into your opinion which offers NO help and may, in fact,deter them now from trying something that may help their life .DUDE, JUST GO AWAY!
Miked4doom 7 months ago
Oh wow! A conservative wanting to label people as making that choice and there being no predisposition. Comfort in telling yourself it's all choice aye? I'm sorry, that's all BS, and I'm not discussing this further, I'm only here to add mine to many voices saying you don't know what you're talking about.
Gokunama 7 months ago
I think one of the reasons people are likely to become alcoholics is because of the image of the alcoholic portrayed on tv, commercials, and in the movies is of a middle aged man that resembles nick cage in leaving los vegas. I think people see this image and think that that lifestyle is a long ways away and they think they can drink in college and after college and not have to worry about ever becoming like the guy on tv or the guy in the movies when infact they can't go a weekend without booz
projectdurden 7 months ago
TELL ME MORE PLEASE.......tHERE IS A STATEMENT MADE HERE AND THERE IS NOTHING OFFERED BUT THE STATEMENT "IT IS NOT A DISEASE" OK THEN HELP ME AND TELL ME HOW TO STOP,,,,,PLEASE.
carol01ctt 7 months ago
What scientific proof does this man have that alcoholism is not a disease. He has none. This is his opinion. He has been shut out of the scientific community
miket1m 7 months ago
@miket1m LMAO. Show me the scientific proof that it is a disease. You like playing the victim?
beautifulmind546 7 months ago
most people overcome alcoholism. Such BS. another ghoul making money off of someone else's misery. EW EW EW!!!!!!!
ccm800 7 months ago
most people overcome alcoholism. Such BS.
ccm800 7 months ago
I agree with his overall point that using the word "disease" to label alcoholism is incorrect. However, if he intends to completely discount a genetic predisposition to a drinking problem, on that point he is very incorrect.
Lunarwill 7 months ago
@Lunarwill Really then how does the "genetic predisposition" explain that nearly everyone in my family are alcoholics and by some mystery I'm not? What is more true is that certain choices and behaviors get learned and passed down through generations until someone comes along evolved enough to question the status quo. But go ahead and keep believing it's your genes that make you drink if it's easier for you.
beautifulmind546 7 months ago
@beautifulmind546 Respectfully. If you honestly believe that genes don't play a factor towards any predisposition or behavior, whether it is alcoholism, homosexuality, or being a piano virtuoso, then you are wrong. I have no idea who you are, so I can't speculate on your situation. Perhaps some people, based on personality or other environmental factors are able to more effectively overcome predispositions, or they might even skip generations, as genetic configurations are known to do.
Lunarwill 7 months ago
@Lunarwill Sure genes play a role in certain things, how tall you will be, what your eye color will be, not whether or not you will be an alcoholic. Nope. I don't believe that because so far there is absolutely no legitimate evidence proving that. Ppl like to believe in things because it gives them comfort. See how an alcoholic would find comfort in believing that their choices to drink and be abusive were not really their fault because they were genetically predisposed? BeLIEfs are LIES
beautifulmind546 7 months ago
@beautifulmind546 Incidentally, you seem to be getting my point wrong. I'm not "sticking up" for the AA "victim mentality" necessarily. But as I said, if you deny genetic predisposition, you don't understand the fundamentals of biology.
Lunarwill 7 months ago
@Lunarwill Show me any genetic markers for alcoholism. Show me any proof at all other than your assumption that it is genetic based other than it being common among family members. See the thing is if you aren't sticking up for the AA victim mentality then why are you presenting false claims that AA victims will use to further enable themselves to believe that their escapist abusive behavior happens because they are biologically prone rather than completely responsible for their actions?
beautifulmind546 7 months ago
@beautifulmind546 It's obvious that neither of us are going to make headway in this conversation, so I'll end it here. While science has made great strides in mapping the human genome, it's still a relatively new field. We have found potential genetic markers for things like predisposition to Alzheimer's and Crohn's disease. Certain physical anomalies in the structure of the brain contribute to certain behaviors. Best wishes.
Lunarwill 7 months ago
@Lunarwill Actually you are making no headway because you have no proof. And now you are comparing alzheimers and Crohns disease to alcoholism? For real? There is NO comparison what so ever. The first two are diseases that cause physical pain and disfunction. Alcoholism is a choice that causes pain and disfunction to everyone having to deal with the alcoholic because they refuse to deal with their own lives. There is no genetic predisposition. It's learned behavior, repeated choices of selfishns
beautifulmind546 7 months ago
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WillsTube1 7 months ago
@WillsTube1 Your response (ad hominem attack) shows even further that it is you in fact who have turned off your brain to believe a lie. You STILL have no proof. Let me guess, you yourself are an abusive alcoholic and you need to believe in the lie that you drink because your abusive alcoholic dad did and that it was genetics and not your choice. Face facts: you learned this from your dad. He abused you and instead of making a different choice and healing yourself you became and abuser too. Sad.
beautifulmind546 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@beautifulmind546 Ah yes. You must be one of those "compassionate Conservatives" that I've heard so much about. You know nothing about me or my personal life, and yet are willing to label me an alcoholic with no moral compass. Great job in taking the high road. What would Jesus do? He would berate me and call me a "Sad individual," and an abuser. Truly a place reserved in heaven for you and people like you. Best wishes.
WillsTube1 7 months ago
@beautifulmind546 - I'm not reading all the comments, but I certainly know that some are highly predisposed to alcoholism, and others have zero chance of becoming alcoholics. One of the best markers is whether you feel amped up after a few drinks, or start getting sleepy, and also of course how much you can handle. Right from the get-go, I've always felt amped up drinking, and I've always been able to drink most under the table without even trying.
Gokunama 7 months ago
@Gokunama Nope that is not proof at all. Alcohol has a physical effect on everyone who consumes it despite what their reaction might be. Responsible people monitor their reactions and choose how much or how little to consume. There is no proof that this is a disease.
beautifulmind546 7 months ago
Totally agree with doc. You have a freedom of choice. No genes are forcing you to drink. Many sober parents have alcoholic children and vice versa.
Quex01 7 months ago
If obesity is a diseise so should alchoholism be
IvIw2STiiTCH 8 months ago
@IvIw2STiiTCH Neither are, in reality anyways. And medicine should never be the subject of public opinion. Which is unfortunately largely what it has become.
Alf90100 7 months ago
I'm with worldbfree2006 on this, also the worst kind of disease would be the one you can't see, or you can't put a label on it or diagnose it very easily
howardb02 8 months ago
I agree 100 percent
corey2112 8 months ago
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JUNKHEAD224 8 months ago
LOL funny how he says "most people overcome alcoholism!" I fuckin wish!!
movieladyLL 8 months ago
I agree , Alcoholism is NOT a disease .
selfreliantboy 8 months ago 3
@selfreliantboy I agree too
chakazulu87 8 months ago
it is a disease of the mind. you can only keep it in check by maintaining it through group therapy, 12 stepping, etc. But once you have it, or you've crossed that line with drinking you will always have it.
Darwyn7 8 months ago
Quack.
RManFlint 8 months ago
I may be an alcoholic but i do not believe it's a disease of the body i think it is a mental disorder and the mental problem is what needs fixed.
daveyvol 8 months ago
This person doesn't seem to understand alcoholism and you should not speak of things you are ignorant about.
SoberMomma 8 months ago
This prick can kiss my ass... Alcoholism is a disease, the worst kind in fact. This disease affects people physically, mentally, and spiritually. Please stop posting videos like this. Alcoholism is the only disease you have to tell someone they have. Watching a video like this could potentially lead someone who is on the fence as to whether or not they have a problem to death. I respect your opinion, but please think about what you are doing...
WorldBFree2006 8 months ago
@WorldBFree2006 Saying that Alcoholism is the worst disease is foolish.
chakazulu87 8 months ago 4
@chakazulu87 You're not very smart. I did not say it was the worst disease I said it was the worst KIND of disease and there is a BIG difference. It is in a class with the worst diseases, at no point did I say it was the worst. No fatal disease is worse than another...
WorldBFree2006 8 months ago
@WorldBFree2006 Yes fatal diseases are worse than the other. AIDS is worse than cancer . AIDS stops your body from fighting off the most common colds germs that goes into the system. However cancer a poison in the body (if found in early stages) and depending on the type is fatal serious but can go into remission or cured all together. Once you have A.I.D.S your just stuck with it. There numerous other examples debunking last thoughtless comment .....
chakazulu87 8 months ago
@chakazulu87 Alcoholism/Addiction just like A.I.D.S., Cancer, and other fatal diseases can not be cured. It can only be arrested if treated and placed in remission. Fact is once an addict puts a drink or a drug in them (even one) the disease picks up right where it left off... There is no cure for cravings, urges, or physical withdrawal...
WorldBFree2006 8 months ago
@WorldBFree2006 .... (contin) Do you not realise that all diseases or disorders fatal or unfatal have an effect physical, spritual, mental being. I think your the one who lacks intelligent disease.
chakazulu87 8 months ago
I believe the incidence of most diseases change with class, lifestyle, stress, income, ethnicity, etc. I'm confused how this is an argument that alcholism is not a disease.
silentplanet2020 9 months ago
Of course, this assumes that there is only a single etiology of alcholism. There could be congenital and conditional alcoholics---some with an inborn problem and others who are reacting to adverse circumstances.
Hypatia1951 9 months ago
Alcoholism, like any addiction is a personal choice. People who claim alcoholism is a disease are cowards unwilling to face up to their problems. Alcoholism can CAUSE disease of the liver etc. but alcoholism is just a simple matter of pathetic people drinking to excess and not being bothered to stop. Cowards.
michaeltbear 9 months ago 2
@michaeltbear You obviously have no experience with addiction to post something like this. I would never wish anyone to experience the shakes or to be dope-sick. But, I would like you to see what it's like and then call anyone who's dealt with them cowards..
WorldBFree2006 8 months ago
@michaeltbear idiot
MrJobonie 8 months ago
What ever dick head
donlapcam 9 months ago
pickandpop.webs.com
dendenod 9 months ago
I would say a person is only an alcoholic when they HAVE to drink. If they instead conquered the reason why they turned to alcohol to begin with, they would not HAVE to drink. Therefore I would term it as a way of escape which can become an addiction. That's my theory, please comment if you agree or disagree and why.
mikeleehunt 9 months ago
Diseases have symptoms and can be diagnosed and cured. Tell me the symptoms of, and cure for, the 'disease' of alcoholism, if you will!
cookinongas 9 months ago
@cookinongas
"Diseases have symptoms and can be diagnosed and cured. Tell me the symptoms of, and cure for, the 'disease' of alcoholism, if you will!"
Not every disease has a cure and the "disease" theory proponents will cite excessive compulsive drinking and the physical complications of that excessive compulsive drinking as the symptomology.
The real objection to the disease theory is that there is no identifiable etiology (cause) and no disease entity (somatic expression) of alcoholism...
Hammersley1967 9 months ago