The Nature-Nurture Issue

[ke11yke11z]

Amen.

[DJLunasf]

Interesting.

[MrIgnostic]

this is why some people are gay?

[ke11yke11z]

@MrIgnostic No.

[Purpledragon1766]

I don't understand, why did he have this surgery in the first place?

[dyad2r1]

Genes rule and no amount of surgery or pretending otherwise can change that fact.

[grimslider75]

i think that nature does decide the gender role in humans, but environment influences the mind, which then gives the human the ability to choose how they act based on their consciousness, and to some degree, their subconscious mind. So if a man decides to act feminine, his DNA isn't stopping him. In fact, I'm straight, but after so much thought on the mind and life, i seriously wouldn't mind having a relationship with a guy. I dislike how people assume everything related to love is sexual.

[MrHerrIQ]

@grimslider75

Or, you're not straight... but you assume you are?

[grimslider75]

@MrHerrIQ

I am straight, but not strictly in some aspects of myself

[MrHerrIQ]

@grimslider75

Im straight, I cannot evolve a sexuall relationship with a male, because something inside of me, my very core, all of my fibres are repulsed by the mere thought of it.

Not aroused. If you are aroused by having a sexuall relationship with someone of your same gender as well as someone of the opposite gender there's a word for this and it's not straight. It's called Bisexuall. You already knew this. If you're sexually attracted to people of the same gender, you're not straight. I am

[kachetil]

what i want to say to that person mather and father is that they are a stuped piece of shit!if i was their SOON!i will shot the both!and the doctors also!

[TheKorban]

Thank you this was an interesting case, I'm a first year studying nature/nurture and if you don't mind I will use this.

Ethics is another part of it and this shows the clear abuse of ethical science and dishonest observation.

[lonelyger95]

IT cant be altered o.o

[Hzqi]

If you're denying it altogether, you're completely deluded. If you're in the process of denying the significance of nature on the state of gender, it's YOU (shift key, not caps lock :) who is being erroniously reductive and making science black and white. Not me. If what you're suggesting is true (which it isn't) the results of boys in feminized schools, wouldn't be so predictable in their decline.

If you seriously don't think the natural behavioural tendencies of genders vary, well, see ya.

[armystrong45]

It seems to me like this man is confused in general. He was scarred for life after he foundout the truth. I wouldnt want to live the life Joan has led. But gender matters most what is in your mind.

[HectorLex]

Do you realize the implications of what you are saying?

Castrate yourself you fucking feminist

[daddiezgurl3218]

See, this makes me question cross-dressers. Because if your brain is predestined to be a sex, and not your genitals, and this man grew up being a woman, when was actually predestined to be a male, then why do cross-dressers grow up contridicting their genitals? I do beleive the your sex is delt with in the brain, but the genitals you have must go hand in hand. Because otherwise, this problem of your brain contridicting your genitals would occure much more often.

[Hzqi]

You have no idea what you're talking about. It's not psychological. It's physiological. People born with trans-gender tendencies, will turn to them whether raised normal, or not. An ordinary boy will never be comfortably morphed into a girl. The body and brain chemistry simply IS NOT THERE. This kind of idiotic reasoning is why boys are failing in schools that are trying to feminize them along with the curriculum.

Boys WILL be boys, whether feminists lke it or not. They'll just grow up angry.

[kiddikat2008]

The case of John/Joan sounds etremely painful. I basically agree with the Dr. Milton Diamond that rather than looking between the ears they look between the legs, and think they did a good job. I think that just because you were to change the gentials at birth it's a genetic factor that you recieve from each of the parents.

[gratex]

This entire case was a mess... john/joan had it highlighted that he/she was "different" from a young age, this could have created the problems inherent in the case... the genitals were not normal at all, and the psychiatrist involved (who was a disgrace) told him/her that. Regardless, gender is clearly a genetic factor, although there are cultural inputs also.

[Hzqi]

Have you ever had children? Watched them grow from little infants? Been woken in the night by oblivious little entities with no reference to what they are, and watch their behavioural tendencies bloom? I've had a lot of experience with caring for boys and girls, and I am catagorically telling you, the difference is monumentally vast.

I've seen people with girl only experience truly astonished by the divide. Culture puts an influence on nature, but nature is always there.

[gratex]

categorically telling me? how scientific. ok I agree your parenting experience means you know the truth.

What did your children bloom out of, by the way? They bloomed over time, right?

[Hzqi]

Actually it's very scientific. Scientific premise number one. OBSERVATION. And extrapolations from observation. These aren't just my children. But the familie's children. And their child friends. And the experience is not unique. And I AM catagorically telling you. Me telling you doesn't mean you have to believe me. The science has been done far more extensively, but you know what you're going to find out? Nature FTW.

I said "behavioural tendencies". They bloom out of THEMSELVES.

[Hzqi]

**"family's"**

Nurture can sway and dictate to nature. But the fundamental presence of nature is profound. And adverse nurture will always be at odds with nature.

[gratex]

Science will tell you that if a child does not learn to speak by the age of 12 they will never be able to speak. Talk about blooming and categorical whatevers if you like, but science is not as black and white about the issue as your caps lock suggests it is.

[Hzqi]

If Youtube would enable italics, I would need a capital for emphasis. Would I?

[lilbec101312]

You can't change someone by telling them that they are a girl if they are a man. You have more male hormones than female. This would just cause a mental disorder to develope. So how does it help someone in the long run to change who the essetually are?