Programming is job, certainly but me as Senior Programmer after 20 years of coding find it fun today. Python is an oasis for programmers because you can leave your mind to creativity and have the basis of an excellent language covering your backs. If we must programm without fun that means that we work like machines without creativiy and looking for new ways of looking our work in different manners,
@ajflorido I think you are in line with what I really meant. The Language shouldn't be the "fun" part. I'm not going to write code in Mario teaches Typing.
But as a CTO my job is to pick the language that moves us forward, and does so with the greatest ability to do dev quickly, but also be sustainable long term. Even if that isn't the "FUN" choice.
I don't pick routers for having the prettiest UI. :-)
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom Well, also with of the power of python i do like the typing in this case of the language and it's elegant and clearly code typing... so the language matters. I understand what you said and maybe my point of view is not really impartial 'cause python is my primary (not unique :( ) language. I must confess that i sometimes choose python in my work only for have a clear vision of the code and prototype projects.
"Fun has no place in business", business is usually where people spend the majority of their life. Without it being fun, why do it? Your outlook on life seems to be somewhat depressing.. Lighten up, and if you have no fun in your own job, I'd suggest you leave it immediately. You only live once...
Programmers that appreciate TIMTOWTDI do so because it's not only fun, it's creative, intuitive, innovative, and it challenges the status-quo. I find your video inane, and your opinions absurd. Creativity and innovation never emerged from someone with the philosophy that doing things the same way all the time is a good thing. I don't hate Python. All languages have their niches and usefulness, but Pythonistas who are this simple and narrow-minded are just plain annoying. Happy indenting!
Fun has no place in business? If this is true, it is likely that operating systems would be much different. The Macintosh was designed primarily for fun. Apple could have focused on building computers for enterprise, but they chose to make a fun computer instead. And it turned out to be revolutionary.
@wdcRith You don't go in to Factory work because it is "fun". You don't go in to Proctology because it is "fun". You may enjoy the challenge, but when you go in to business you go in to it to be productive and because you like the end results. Watch "programmer vs engineer vs architect"
What you should like about programming is the problem solving. not the nuances of the language.
In the end, you can accomplish the EXACT same goals with a number of different languages out there. Why should it matter if your site is coded in Ruby or Python...If productivity is the issue for you, wouldn't you rather code in Rails? Less time spent with B.S. , more time actually constructing the important pieces of the backend of your website. "When you go in to business you go in to it to be productive".... lol The irony is strong with this one...
@cdsplaya No. You can't. Ruby requires more infrastructure admin, and limits your ability to do small things with out then modifying Gems. All these small things add up. to big issues. I have managed LOTs of Ruby projects for companies of all sizes. It is a crappy language for anything other than prototyping.
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom YOU may not go to work because it's fun (obviously), but many people choose their careers based on their enjoyment of doing a particular task. How on Earth is enjoying the end results not FUN? "What you should like about programming is the problem solving. not the nuances of the language." is a subjective statement and bordering on arrogant. What you like about programming is what YOU like about programming and the nuances of ANYTHING in life, IMHO, are paramount.
why the hell are you comparing a web framework to a programming language there is sooooo much more to Ruby than just Rails. Sinatra, Eventmachine, Ramaze, Renee(new kid on the block) educate yourself and learn about the language and don't base your entire argument on a bloated framework.....
@bcart3r My argument was that Ruby has multiple ways to do everything, which means that 3 devs all working on the same project could write the same code differently and not be able to support each other's code. I have seen this in practice.
...hmmmm, a friend of mine works for Groupon, they have a team of over 300 developers running Ruby on Rails and they seem to be doing just fine..... You should probably put your personal vendetta to the side on this one...
lol, what??? Pages of content??? the architecture of Groupon's app is a lot more complicated than the pages you see on their website. Groupon's backend is ENORMOUS.
Wow, I'm speechless - as someone that's used both Python and Ruby extensively in business, I would recommend anyone to go with Ruby and Rails. What websites are running on Python or Django? - Erm, some blogs? a local newspaper?
Ruby/Rails runs hulu, twitter, 37signals, 43things, shopify, yellow pages, github, groupon, justin tv, scribd, getsatisfaction, campfire, zendesk, smart.fm, the list goes on and on. Not good for business? are you retarded?
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom What? what front facing stuff on google uses Python? - maybe they write some interfaces to some libraries in Python, that's it - front facing is Java and GWT - 90% of yahoo? nasa? CIA? huh!? - what are you smoking?
What is your point about Yellow Pages and GroupOn? - Everyone uses caching.
GitHub is not 90% erlang - look at their blog, everything front facing runs on Rails and all task processing runs Resque which is Ruby and Redis. Only their message passing is in Erlang.
@rgaufman Just to reiterate, the *only* thing Erlang is used for on GitHub is for the thin layer between the filesystem (where the git repository is stored) and everything that runs on Ruby/Rails - it is a tiny percentage of the code and they have all that code publicly available as a github repository - hardly 90%.
@rgaufman Google Search, Google Image Search, Gmail, Analytics, and Insights are all python 2.7-ish I say ish because Google runs a an optimized version of Python that is non-standard. It runs as compiled code.
Gitub is Rails for the UX but all of the heavy lifting is ERLANG.
Your arguments seem to imply you only think about front end, which is a minor part of things. Remember that much more work goes in to Database, and back end operations.
Blackwater is a corporate drone. There is no reasoning with ignorant people like him. He thinks that if he blocks and deletes other people's opinions that he can somehow sway everyone to believe what he believes. The simple fact that he is bashing Rails because it is "fun" and "doesn't scale" is quite comical actually. Like Hiphoprally said, you don't even have anything to scale. "To each his own," for some reason Blackwater decided to delete that...
@cdsplaya My channel my rules. If you can site examples I'm willing to debate, but I was CTO in a company where we ran Rails, and ones where we ran PHP, Python, Java, and .Net. If your take away was that it's not fun, you didn't watch the video, you just decided to troll. My complaint with Ruby is that with 6 ways to do everything being a "Feature" the ability to support code in large teams falls apart.
I deleted the thread because there was no information in it. But thanks for playing.
So glad I subscribed to you. This is your first video I've watched and I really enjoyed the simplicity & ideas you gave in the video :) I was expecting lots of jargon.
@ConchX In a 90 second video jargon gets in the way. You don't want to sit through a 2 hour lecture to figure out what you want to put your efforts in to. I could do a deep dive, but it would only interest about 6 people, and those people would rather read it in an article, not watch me talk about it.
Python ftw!... BUT, the documentation in tutorials etc. is sometimes lacking compare to other languages. E.g when I learned the basics of python (in the beginning of 2010), then wanted to develop for the web, I had no clue what to do or where to begin, even when I search on google/forum everyone tells to use a framework like Django.. the step between the basics and a framework in development is pretty huge, and I felt that I'm missing out much back then.
@renegade8164 You were looking in the wrong places. A HUGE advantage of python is the wealth of documentation. If you were looking specifically for docs on GAE, yeah those are thin because it is new.
@renegade8164 I'm with you that Django documentation is pretty intimidating to get started with but it is really your best bet with Python web development. I've used various python techniques including PSP (Python Server Pages) for web development and none of it is usable really, even GAE is just a WSGI server and they recommend using Django (well, there are alternatives like Pylons, but they are pretty similar to Django).
You may consider trying Rails which I found a lot less painful personally
I experienced something simular with ASP pages. Working in a group and creating code isn't fun only because everyone codes differently. I prefer to be more strict about everything and demand consistency. But when someone else gets a hold of it! be prepared to hold on.
@itouchhacker241 Laughter is the sign of a happy employee. If you are happy I haven't crushed your will enough. Get back to work slave boy *crack*. I'm docking you 90 seconds pay for watching YouTube during business hours.
i do have fun with python...man.
Programming is job, certainly but me as Senior Programmer after 20 years of coding find it fun today. Python is an oasis for programmers because you can leave your mind to creativity and have the basis of an excellent language covering your backs. If we must programm without fun that means that we work like machines without creativiy and looking for new ways of looking our work in different manners,
ajflorido 1 day ago
@ajflorido I think you are in line with what I really meant. The Language shouldn't be the "fun" part. I'm not going to write code in Mario teaches Typing.
But as a CTO my job is to pick the language that moves us forward, and does so with the greatest ability to do dev quickly, but also be sustainable long term. Even if that isn't the "FUN" choice.
I don't pick routers for having the prettiest UI. :-)
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 23 hours ago
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom Well, also with of the power of python i do like the typing in this case of the language and it's elegant and clearly code typing... so the language matters. I understand what you said and maybe my point of view is not really impartial 'cause python is my primary (not unique :( ) language. I must confess that i sometimes choose python in my work only for have a clear vision of the code and prototype projects.
ajflorido 22 hours ago
"Fun has no place in business", business is usually where people spend the majority of their life. Without it being fun, why do it? Your outlook on life seems to be somewhat depressing.. Lighten up, and if you have no fun in your own job, I'd suggest you leave it immediately. You only live once...
lizzboy 5 days ago
'Fun doesn't appeal to you'
Sorry but thats all I need to hear that your biased towards this whole scenario. And shame on you for thinking that jobs cant be enjoyable.
randomovertone 5 days ago
Programmers that appreciate TIMTOWTDI do so because it's not only fun, it's creative, intuitive, innovative, and it challenges the status-quo. I find your video inane, and your opinions absurd. Creativity and innovation never emerged from someone with the philosophy that doing things the same way all the time is a good thing. I don't hate Python. All languages have their niches and usefulness, but Pythonistas who are this simple and narrow-minded are just plain annoying. Happy indenting!
jace427 6 days ago
"Fun has no place in business" what an aw!!!!!!! Go clean up your teeth prick!
bioduds 1 week ago
Fun has no place in business? If this is true, it is likely that operating systems would be much different. The Macintosh was designed primarily for fun. Apple could have focused on building computers for enterprise, but they chose to make a fun computer instead. And it turned out to be revolutionary.
Alexvreidy 3 weeks ago
It's very depressing that people now see programming as not fun. When most of us had are start in programming due to us finding it fun.
wdcRith 1 month ago 7
@wdcRith You don't go in to Factory work because it is "fun". You don't go in to Proctology because it is "fun". You may enjoy the challenge, but when you go in to business you go in to it to be productive and because you like the end results. Watch "programmer vs engineer vs architect"
What you should like about programming is the problem solving. not the nuances of the language.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 1 month ago
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom Some many find Proctology fun, and may have gotten their start in amatuer proctology.
Just a thought.
And I will watch "programmer vs engineer vs architect"
Thanks for your contributions to YouTube.
wdcRith 1 month ago
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom
In the end, you can accomplish the EXACT same goals with a number of different languages out there. Why should it matter if your site is coded in Ruby or Python...If productivity is the issue for you, wouldn't you rather code in Rails? Less time spent with B.S. , more time actually constructing the important pieces of the backend of your website. "When you go in to business you go in to it to be productive".... lol The irony is strong with this one...
cdsplaya 1 month ago
@cdsplaya No. You can't. Ruby requires more infrastructure admin, and limits your ability to do small things with out then modifying Gems. All these small things add up. to big issues. I have managed LOTs of Ruby projects for companies of all sizes. It is a crappy language for anything other than prototyping.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 1 month ago
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom YOU may not go to work because it's fun (obviously), but many people choose their careers based on their enjoyment of doing a particular task. How on Earth is enjoying the end results not FUN? "What you should like about programming is the problem solving. not the nuances of the language." is a subjective statement and bordering on arrogant. What you like about programming is what YOU like about programming and the nuances of ANYTHING in life, IMHO, are paramount.
jace427 6 days ago
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom Sorry but if your having trouble being productive with Ruby, then I'm afraid the language isn't the problem
randomovertone 5 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom
>You may enjoy the challenge, but when you go in to business
> you go in to it to be productive and because you like the end results.
Enjoying the challenge and being productive is what I call fun :-).
andrasschmidthu 1 day ago
This is laughably narrow-minded, you're not even comparing apples to apples. SMH.
ryanthegreatt 1 month ago
@ryanthegreatt Are they not both languages people write and support code in? Is the philosophy of the programming not very different in each?
I have managed Enterprise Alexa 1000 projects in each. What experience do you have with each?
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 1 month ago
i can only laugh at your ignorance and arrogance
ryebis 1 month ago
why the hell are you comparing a web framework to a programming language there is sooooo much more to Ruby than just Rails. Sinatra, Eventmachine, Ramaze, Renee(new kid on the block) educate yourself and learn about the language and don't base your entire argument on a bloated framework.....
bcart3r 2 months ago 8
@bcart3r My argument was that Ruby has multiple ways to do everything, which means that 3 devs all working on the same project could write the same code differently and not be able to support each other's code. I have seen this in practice.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 2 months ago
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom
...hmmmm, a friend of mine works for Groupon, they have a team of over 300 developers running Ruby on Rails and they seem to be doing just fine..... You should probably put your personal vendetta to the side on this one...
cdsplaya 1 month ago
@cdsplaya How many page website is Groupon? How many devs do they have. You don't think they have a lot of devs per page of content?
Speak to what you know. Put your personal vendetta on the side on this one.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 1 month ago
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom
lol, what??? Pages of content??? the architecture of Groupon's app is a lot more complicated than the pages you see on their website. Groupon's backend is ENORMOUS.
cdsplaya 1 week ago
@HipHopRally Has Been Blocked. Willing to take a certain amount of discussion but not long threads of personal attacks.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 2 months ago
Wow, I'm speechless - as someone that's used both Python and Ruby extensively in business, I would recommend anyone to go with Ruby and Rails. What websites are running on Python or Django? - Erm, some blogs? a local newspaper?
Ruby/Rails runs hulu, twitter, 37signals, 43things, shopify, yellow pages, github, groupon, justin tv, scribd, getsatisfaction, campfire, zendesk, smart.fm, the list goes on and on. Not good for business? are you retarded?
rgaufman 3 months ago
@rgaufman You mean Other than 75% of google properties? 90% of Yahoo, All of Nasa. All of CIA.
Yellow Pages doesn't run ruby, Yellow Pages generates pages using Ruby HUGE difference, they are pre-caclulated. And stored as static files.
Git Hub is 90% Erlang.
Twitter? Really Home of the Fail Whale?
GroupOn like Yellowpages gens pages not "runs" ruby.
Maybe you are the retarded one.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 3 months ago
@BlackwaterOpsDotCom What? what front facing stuff on google uses Python? - maybe they write some interfaces to some libraries in Python, that's it - front facing is Java and GWT - 90% of yahoo? nasa? CIA? huh!? - what are you smoking?
What is your point about Yellow Pages and GroupOn? - Everyone uses caching.
GitHub is not 90% erlang - look at their blog, everything front facing runs on Rails and all task processing runs Resque which is Ruby and Redis. Only their message passing is in Erlang.
rgaufman 3 months ago
@rgaufman Just to reiterate, the *only* thing Erlang is used for on GitHub is for the thin layer between the filesystem (where the git repository is stored) and everything that runs on Ruby/Rails - it is a tiny percentage of the code and they have all that code publicly available as a github repository - hardly 90%.
rgaufman 3 months ago in playlist More videos from BlackwaterOpsDotCom
@rgaufman Google Search, Google Image Search, Gmail, Analytics, and Insights are all python 2.7-ish I say ish because Google runs a an optimized version of Python that is non-standard. It runs as compiled code.
Gitub is Rails for the UX but all of the heavy lifting is ERLANG.
Your arguments seem to imply you only think about front end, which is a minor part of things. Remember that much more work goes in to Database, and back end operations.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 2 months ago
@rgaufman
Blackwater is a corporate drone. There is no reasoning with ignorant people like him. He thinks that if he blocks and deletes other people's opinions that he can somehow sway everyone to believe what he believes. The simple fact that he is bashing Rails because it is "fun" and "doesn't scale" is quite comical actually. Like Hiphoprally said, you don't even have anything to scale. "To each his own," for some reason Blackwater decided to delete that...
cdsplaya 2 months ago
@cdsplaya My channel my rules. If you can site examples I'm willing to debate, but I was CTO in a company where we ran Rails, and ones where we ran PHP, Python, Java, and .Net. If your take away was that it's not fun, you didn't watch the video, you just decided to troll. My complaint with Ruby is that with 6 ways to do everything being a "Feature" the ability to support code in large teams falls apart.
I deleted the thread because there was no information in it. But thanks for playing.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 2 months ago
I love ALL your vidoes
monjimike 3 months ago
So glad I subscribed to you. This is your first video I've watched and I really enjoyed the simplicity & ideas you gave in the video :) I was expecting lots of jargon.
I'll be watching more of your videos now! :)
ConchX 3 months ago
@ConchX In a 90 second video jargon gets in the way. You don't want to sit through a 2 hour lecture to figure out what you want to put your efforts in to. I could do a deep dive, but it would only interest about 6 people, and those people would rather read it in an article, not watch me talk about it.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 3 months ago
Python ftw!... BUT, the documentation in tutorials etc. is sometimes lacking compare to other languages. E.g when I learned the basics of python (in the beginning of 2010), then wanted to develop for the web, I had no clue what to do or where to begin, even when I search on google/forum everyone tells to use a framework like Django.. the step between the basics and a framework in development is pretty huge, and I felt that I'm missing out much back then.
renegade8164 3 months ago
@renegade8164 You were looking in the wrong places. A HUGE advantage of python is the wealth of documentation. If you were looking specifically for docs on GAE, yeah those are thin because it is new.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 3 months ago
@renegade8164 I'm with you that Django documentation is pretty intimidating to get started with but it is really your best bet with Python web development. I've used various python techniques including PSP (Python Server Pages) for web development and none of it is usable really, even GAE is just a WSGI server and they recommend using Django (well, there are alternatives like Pylons, but they are pretty similar to Django).
You may consider trying Rails which I found a lot less painful personally
rgaufman 3 months ago
You never fail to make me lol. I like your sense of humour :)
Seekirus22 3 months ago
"Harry Potter spoke Python"
You sir, win the internet, or at least the British side of it.
thepokekid01 3 months ago
coding should be fun because its not easy.
TDmillerproduction 3 months ago
lol...
You Sir, win.
42DangerVision 3 months ago
Darn... looks like no company wants to let their employees have fun :/
averagejoejesse 3 months ago
Victoria"s Secret Fashion Show AD so funny :)
steven12153 3 months ago
I experienced something simular with ASP pages. Working in a group and creating code isn't fun only because everyone codes differently. I prefer to be more strict about everything and demand consistency. But when someone else gets a hold of it! be prepared to hold on.
gundambob646 3 months ago
lol
Ernestotorres14 3 months ago
i lol'd when u said "your there to get your shit DONE"
itouchhacker241 3 months ago
@itouchhacker241 Laughter is the sign of a happy employee. If you are happy I haven't crushed your will enough. Get back to work slave boy *crack*. I'm docking you 90 seconds pay for watching YouTube during business hours.
BlackwaterOpsDotCom 3 months ago 2