You see the different between Professor Finkelstein and you is this: He is an academic that actually knows what he;s talking about; you are a notoriously racist ethnic supremacist sitting in his basement who thinks that the ethnic cleansing of millions of innocent Palestinians is Ok simply because you deem them as ethnically inferior.
Yes, in case you haven't heard, saying that it's OK to ethnically cleanse 5 million indigenous people simply because they;re considered ethnically inferior and then stealing their land is RACIST.
You are no better in the slightest than a standard Nazi.
Yes & how do you rationalize the growing Pal Arab population ?
Gaza & WB have never had 5 million people moron ! There are approx 1.5 million . There is no genocide but there would be if Israel didn't defend herself !
"Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost ALL have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."
- League of Nations 1920 Interim Report
-> "Almost ALL (Jews) entered during last 40 years!"
@OrthodoxDarwinist In 1990 the WB & Gaza had just over 1.5 million people according to the World Bank Report. Today they are 4.4 million people & the Infant death rate is on average with most Arab countries & much lower than Egypt !
You are clueless & should verify your lies before you open your mouth !
Find it hard to believe there are ignorants like you !
I know racist ethnic supremacist scum like you don't consider them to be human, but, number of Palestinian refugees according to the UN (numbers per country now residing in):
Jordan 1,983,733
Lebanon 425,640
Syria 472,109[28]
West Bank 778,993
Gaza Strip 1,106,195
"We need to expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben Gurion
Wouldn't you think ethnic cleansing would see a reduction of Pals in WB & Gaza.
Jordan has a peace treaty with Israel as does other Arab states like Egypt . If as you stated IDF are far superior fighters why haven't they really killed all the Pals as you claim they are doing ? Why hand Gaza over to Egypt after the 67 war ?
You are so fucking brain dead it is unbelievable . Show me where I said Pals were inferior !
I know racist ethnic supremacist scum like you don't consider them to be human, but, number of Palestinian refugees according to the UN (numbers per country now residing in):
Jordan 1,983,733
Lebanon 425,640
Syria 472,109[28]
West Bank 778,993
Gaza Strip 1,106,195
"We need to expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben Gurion
"Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost ALL have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."
- League of Nations 1920 Interim Report
-> "Almost ALL (Jews) entered during last 40 years!"
@OrthodoxDarwinist Population growth rate 3.201% (2011 est.) Birth rate 35.3 births/1,000 population (2011 est.) Death rate 3.29 deaths/1,000 population (July 2011 est.) Net migration rate 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2011 est.) strange genocide don't you think? populations decrease when genocide occurs not increase!
"102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:
(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade."
concrete and direct military advantage anticipated
I know racist ethnic supremacist scum like you don't consider them to be human, but, number of Palestinian refugees according to the UN (numbers per country now residing in):
Jordan 1,983,733
Lebanon 425,640
Syria 472,109[28]
West Bank 778,993
Gaza Strip 1,106,195
"We need to expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben Gurion
"In 2004, International Court of Justice noted the Security Council had described Israel's policy & practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories as a "flagrant violation" of the Fourth Geneva Convention; also Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestinian Territory have been established in breach of international law and that all parties to the Geneva Convention are under an obligation to ensure compliance by Israel with international law."
"Even amidst the violent attacks launched against us for months past, we call upon the sons of the Arab people dwelling in Israel to keep the peace and to play their part in building the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its institutions, provisional and permanent."
He also said to pay a fair price for any land that an Arab wants to sell estimation
I know racist ethnic supremacist scum like you don't consider them to be human, but, number of Palestinian refugees according to the UN (numbers per country now residing in):
Jordan 1,983,733
Lebanon 425,640
Syria 472,109[28]
West Bank 778,993
Gaza Strip 1,106,195
"We need to expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben Gurion
"Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost ALL have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."
- League of Nations 1920 Interim Report
-> "Almost ALL (Jews) entered during last 40 years!"
"In 2004, International Court of Justice noted the Security Council had described Israel's policy & practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories as a "flagrant violation" of the Fourth Geneva Convention; also Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestinian Territory have been established in breach of international law and that all parties to the Geneva Convention are under an obligation to ensure compliance by Israel with international law."
well derr Tom, after all you cut & paste from white supremacist hate sites.. the issue isnt whether you are racist, its why are you so stupid as to claim your pro israel but use anti jewish white supremacist hate sites to cut & paste your opinion from..
Hey Tom, whats with the char i eston , char l eston etc group of accounts that you use to thumb yourself up?
Andrew nice to see you ! I thought you might have been knocked off again !
I didn't know the Red Cross commissioned San Remo Manual was a white Supremacist site !
Haven't you got any new drivel ? Same old BS !
The Voice of Canada is pro Israel as is the editor , former Peace Keeper Mark Vandermaas. Funny how he supports Israel after serving in Egypt during the 67 war !
Lets include Jihad Watch & UN Watch ,both pro Israel just like me . SUN Media pro Israel. Very smart
"(Reuters) - The Palestine Investment Fund plans to build 30,000 homes for low-income families in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, a $1.5 billion endeavor supported by foreign backers to meet growing demand."
i didnt see such a brave man like norman i wish that i have the pleasure of meeting him although he is jewish he didnt lie to serve his brother in religion but he stand up and says the truth
western liberals are insane, to much drugs, they can't think well
Islam is the most violent religion in the world.
Buddhists don't use airplanes to destroy buildings, hindus don't make bombs in UK, jews don't execute gay people in Israel, mormons don't kill children in school, Beslan.
Goldstone retracted his views about Israel & the Palmer UN report declares Israels blockade & attack on Mavi flotilla legal & justified. Goldstone report was wrong & Fink is wrong ! Hamas mandates the death of all Jews & destruction of Israel . Fink & people like him are a big part of the problem. Using Pakistan as a comparable situation is a fallacy !
Yes, they want a 'piece' of Lebanon; a 'piece' of Syria; a 'piece' of Iraq; a 'piece' of Saudi Arabia; a 'piece' of Egypt; a 'piece' of Jordan and whatever is left of the 'pieces' in Palestine after the Judeo- Nazis get thru 'wiping Gaza off the face of the Earth.'
Israel crossed a WORDWIDE blockade on APARTHEID South Africa to give it WEAPONS/TORTURE Equipment but complains when the WORLD wants to give FOOD/MEDICAL aid to impoverished Gazans?
Israel caused murder, destruction of property, kidnapping and destruction and with-holding of evidence.
And Israel is saying it was an act of self-defense?
" Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves. Menachem Begin - Israeli Prime Minister 1977–1983
people think that israel i being singled out... no other country is violating international law the way israel is.....israeli's are pussy's hiding behind the gun....I'll put all my money on the palestinian throwing the rock if the israeli soldier/terrorist, put down that machine gun and put his fists up, bitches
Norman. Mere mortals like us owe a debt of gratitude for those like yourself who have the courage to charge over the trenches and tell it like it is. Keep fighting the lies and debauchery of the west and its Israel the client state.
Oh, so when palestinians shoot "harmless" rockets into cities, its defending your land (which was never yours), but when israel defends itself, its murder.
Gotcha.
And yes, typical of you to miss the point of what I said.
If we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day. If we don't kill we will cease to exist."
-Israeli Prof. Arnon Sofer of Haifa University, Jerusalem Post
'When I open the police files I find detailed reports about Jewish criminals. The archives have enough material for 100 historians and for 100 years, and even then they won't finish."
-- Mordechai Zalkin Haartez News. Jerusalem, November 2, 2004
"I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow someplace where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was." -Israeli General Moshe Dayan
@StSimonOfTrent You love your white supremacist Talmud and its blatant lies. Do you cuddle with it at night? Greater Israel? was the giving away of Gaza, South Lebanon, and Sinai leadeing to greater Israel LOL
Please stand under a Qassam to test its harmlessnes you big lying phony.
Quote from Asharq Alawsat editorial, Saudi Arabia, 08-03-2008: It is shameful that Hamas is depending on Syrian and Iranian accounts and is transforming the Palestinian cause into a bank for political objectives that are transferred to those two parties. The price: the blood of innocent victims that is shed for the sake of oiling the political wheel that corroded in Damascus and Tehran.
The family names of many Arabs who now occupy the Holy Land reveal their country of origin: Masri (from Egypt-Hamas member of Parliament in Gaza, Mushir al-Masri ), Iraqi (from Iraq), Tarabulsi (from Tarabulus-Tripoli in Lebanon), Hourani (from Houran in Syria), Husseini (from Jordan), Saudi (from Saudi Arabia),Metzarwah(saudi Arabia),Bardawil(salah bardawil HAMAS legislator in gaza from egypt ,Bardawil lake aria)
You can spam spam spam all the threads you want. but your fishing with less bait each time. I will follow your cloness al over You Tube. Its obvious youre a parasite glomming off of You Tube immense size. But I can follow you and confise threads JUST like you!!!
You know fake krepiach2 clone I can troll you just as efficiently as you troll me. IYou think youre confusing people trolling my comments. Its a two way street, as I follow you. You will never get a decent conversation you want, you desperately crave.
Cause I will follow you. You cant win as it will confuse people untill thet click on your name. Then they will see you are a parasite on You Tube.
You know fake krepiach2 clone I can troll you just as efficiently as you troll me. IYou think youre confusing people trolling my comments. Its a two way street, as I follow you. You will never get a decent conversation you want, you desperately crave.
Cause I will follow you. You cant win as it will confuse people untill thet click on your name. Then they will see you are a parasite on You Tube.
"We must use Terror, Assassination, land confiscation, & the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population" -Israel Koenig, The Koenig Memorandum
'Let us Hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get Rid of our troubles & acquire our space"
-Moshe Dayan, Israel's Sacred Terrorism
"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants and even their beasts." -Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director Tsomet Inst
@LSRochon, in your video description, why do you fail to mention the Red Army reprisal killings. You fail to mention Stalin's "Partisan Order" where he declared any soviet sitizen behind enemy lines who did not fight the Germans were to be shot or hanged. You fail to mention the German civilians that the western Allies raped, tortured or shot. Finkelstein just doesn't want the Truth about the Holocaust to come out so he plays the righteous jew, touring and selling books.
The armed forces of the mandatory Power shall be progressively withdrawn from Palestine, the withdrawal to be completed as soon as possible but in any case not later than 1 August 1948.
Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion
By David R. Francis, Christian Science Monitor
12/9/2002
This is an estimate by Thomas Stauffer, consulting economist in Washington For decades, his analyses of the Middle East scene have made him a frequent thorn in the side of the Israel lobby
Stauffer has tallied the total cost to the US of its backing of Israel in its drawn-out, violent dispute with the Palestinians. So far the bill adds up to more than 2x the cost of the Vietnam War'
And its not just americans. Russians, chinese, Thais, Europe, Aftrica adn even islamic states are all dealing with islamic violence against anyone that isnt a radical islamist.
Dont be so quick to break down a wall that protects you from real world barbarism. Go watch some beheading and stoning clips if none of this is sinking in.
"We must use Terror, Assassination, land confiscation, & the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population" -Israel Koenig, The Koenig Memorandum
'Let us Hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get Rid of our troubles & acquire our space"
-Moshe Dayan, Israel's Sacred Terrorism
"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants & even their beasts." -Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director Tsomet Inst
Given Israel has the means to kill every palestinian man, women, and child, and that comment was 2 years ago, we can see the propaganda at play.
Its not enough to quote a book and say "See!?!?". You need to base your accusations on people's actions.
And the action of Israel has always been defensive. Yes, there are times when they take land and make settlements. Can you blame them after 62 years of Jihad?
And the muslim position is to take ALL of israel and genocide the jews
@berenjervin In conclusion, the Court considers that Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. The Court accordingly finds that the construction of the wall and its associated régime are contrary to international law.
The objection was not about the wall, it was an objection to building the wall in Palestinian territory.
As much as I do support Israel's overall position, I cant argue with the Palestinian objections that the wall NOT be build outside Israel. (i.e. Inside Palestinian territory)
If Israel wants a wall, fine, but it should be INSIDE their territory.
I dont see the relevance to anything tho. Both sides are playing hardball. Is this "worse" than suicide bombers?
Well the UN Palmer Report states that the right of self defence is paramount & therefore the blockade is legal as is defending the block !de against flotillas which try to breach it !
Yes funny how San Remo Manual 1994, the law of naval conflict & blockades , the current Humanitarian Law contradicts the ICJ & Fink !
Fink they are enforcing the law by recognizing Israel as a state that has the right to defend ! Ask Dershowitz a real legal genius not a misguided activist
Ahhh 45Charleston, one of my favourite Zionist ethnic supremacists! How's it going?
"In conclusion, the Court considers that Israel cannot rely on a right of self‑defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. The Court accordingly finds that the construction of the wall and its associated régime are contrary to international law." -International Court of Justice Press Release 2004/28
Fink is the most boring pseudo-intellectual asshole on the planet!
He hasn't got a clue about international law. the law that applies is not the Geneva Convention!
The quotes of Goldstone are outdated and the correct law is San Remo manual 1994! Blockades are legal if for a military purpose! Fink is out of his realm of expertise. If he had a clue he would know that Israel complies to the San Remo manual and supplies aid in accordance with it!
"In 2004, International Court of Justice noted the Security Council had described Israel's policy & practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories as a "flagrant violation" of the Fourth Geneva Convention; also Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestinian Territory have been established in breach of international law and that all parties to the Geneva Convention are under an obligation to ensure compliance by Israel with international law."
The ICJ did not rule against Israels right of self defence. They issued an "advisory opinion" that Israel could not rely on necessity of self defence .
They are as screwed up as the UN General Assembly & issue unenforceable resolutions sponsored by Arab states & some Euro trash.
The Int community does nothing because Israel is acting in accordance with Int law. Fink you are an idiot who has no clue about Int law.
The real 'Jihad' is the Kosher Jihad, of Stealing land, Building Settlements, Violating UN Law, Assasinating leaders, Collective punishment on Palestinian Civilians, Apartheid.
Defensive?
Yes, Israel 'defends' herself the same way an armed robber shoots an innocent victim to steal his possessions.
Your Talmudic Lies and logic arent welcome any longer and wont be tolerated.
They shoot rockets into a sovereign state, they send suicide bombers, they plant IEDs etc. They call for the destruction of Israel.
If Palestinians had not of done this, would Israel be doing what you say? Probably not. They dont do it to anyone else.
Its more like Israel defends itself from people outside screaming "I'm going to kill you" and shooting at their house. Sometimes you need to go into the street and shoot back.
Why? Palestinians continue to shoot rockets, violate international law, use suicide bombers to further their goal of replacing Israel with an Islamic state and genociding the jews.
This whole conflict is nothing more than Jihad, warfare by any and every means available to establish Islamic rule.
And the end of the day, anyone who understands whats going on there will understand its the Palestinians that are the aggressors - even though they are outmatched.
Palestinians insist on replacing Israel with an islamic state with Sharia law which subjugates non muslims as 3rd class citizens.
Israel allows muslims to live as free and equal people in their country, but wont put up with the jihad and terrorism that the rest of the world is living with and losing tolerance for.
South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu has accused Israel of practising apartheid in its policies towards the Palestinians.
The Nobel peace laureate said he was very deeply distressed by a visit to the Holy Land, adding that "it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa.
In a speech in the US, Archbishop Tutu said he saw "the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints & roadblocks, suffering like us"
(Jerusalem, November 22, 2006) Palestinian armed groups must not endanger Palestinian civilians by encouraging them to gather in and around suspected militants homes targeted by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), Human Rights Watch said today.
Calling civilians to a location the opposing side identified for attack is human shielding, failing to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians from the effects of attack. Both are violations of international humanitarian law.
Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)". Prime Minister Golda Meir, saw this as a an opportunity to counterbalance the rise of Arafats Fatah movement.'
I love how Jew haters must encapsulzise THE ENEMY!!
Its all BS! Hamas was aises as a social work orgnization to counter the corrupt PLO. They were always corrupt. Just to show you how wrong you are Golda Meir resigned in 1974 and Hamas wasnt established untill the 1980s. once the PLO signed Oslo; Hamas set up a military wing to resume the fight to drive the Jews into the sea.
Thanks to the Mossad, Israel's "Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks", the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".
Youre too simple to see that your quote is trying to connect events years apart. Therefore the global outlook excerpt STILL has no crebilibilty.. Golda Meir resigned in 1974. Hamas military wing wasnt until 1993. You cant connect whats no there.
@StSimonOfTrent Really? Can you provide ANY ANY ANY links saying there is Mossad in Gaza? Anything at all?? Even from Hamas. You know theyd look mighty stupid admitting that fairy tale.
KREPLACH2 is KREPLACH3 KREPLACH3 is KREPLACH2 THE FAKE ONE IS KREPiACH2 THE FAKE ONE IS KREPiACH3 Click on the names to see who's fake!!! See its K R E P i A C H NOT K R E P L A C H False Flag Krepiach goes swimming You Tube from one end to the other trying to set opinion up against me. But Im following him nipping it in the bud.
@kreplach2 Exactly, God does not bless liars and distorters. Furthermore, he does not bless who kill innocent people and he will punish them for that.
@kreplach2 Yes, It was not ME who done the survey and reports but other people. Zionists took a land from innocent people by force and and expect from them to take it back by force, not with kisses and roses.
@kreplach2 I think you are living in a dream and not in this world. Researchers and historian say that the land was taken by force. We live in modern world and it is documented and the whole world knows it. Don't live in denial man. You asked for the survey of innocent people being killed by Israelis and here it is go to this web site ifamericansknew org
@bjeddahb Why ? Are you measuring Theta waves from my brain?? LOL!!!
What fictional researchers and historians?? Where? Give me details my brainwashed poster. No its only documented between your ears. Its a myth. All documents point to attempted genocide by Arabs. Not land taken by force.
If Americansknew is a faker, like you, named Tom Murphy. Try harder to back up your lies.
@kreplach2 I did not measure anything, but your sayings are out of reality. I gave you that website so you can trace from where he got his info, but it seems that you didnt bother doing it. The site quote from the UN, human rights and from Israeli websites, Which are not Arab sites like you assumed. Such as btselem,org and (mfa gov il) and .ochaopt org ..etc. You can always trace back the sources which the site provide. People are not stupid as you think. I hope you stop denying dude.
@bjeddahb You got nerve to rate my sayings out of reality. MAYBE YOUR DISTORTED REALITY. You gave me an UNRELIABLE BIASED WEBSITE. How about some real history not opinion. Youre bucking for stupid poster of the year.
The whole game of yours is evasion off the arguement.
@kreplach2 I guess there will be no end to this conversation. The site gives numbers and not opinions. These numbers are from as I said before ( UN , Human Rights organizations, Israeli websites ...etc) and I think those are really UNBIASED reliable sources for anybody. Go check it your self. You see now in one hand we have your opinion and in the other hand we have this site which provides numbers and facts from UNBIASED sources. Sorry your opinion is not good enough.
@kreplach2 No clear minded person will take anyone's word for it...they'll confirm the any claim to other sources, and it's even more damning when Israel Human Rights Organization and Israeli Government admit to the statistics......
Two weeks ago, an already fragile humanitarian situation resulting from the mounting effects of months of shortages, saw a dramatic downturn. The fighting resumed, with an Israeli army incursion into Gaza and a RETALIATORY barrage of militant rocket fire.
"I was not aware of a distinction, for me the settlements have always been illegal on the basis of the Geneva Convention" -Hans Correl (Former UN Under-Secretary General for Legal Affairs) Thursday, 7 January 2010 BBC News, Jerusalem
Does the UN have the right to violate international law? That is the question. The Council of the League of Nations was set up after WWI to establish "international law." It ruled that Palestine is the Jewish National Home. What right did the UN have to come along, 25 years later, and suddenly give part of Palestine to the Arabs after the LoNs had ruled otherwise 25 years earlier on?
The United Nations violated international law by partitioning Palestine and offering the Arabs nearly half of it when the COUNCIL of the League 25 years earlier had already RULED that western Palestine was the "Jewish National Home." It had unilaterally taken away territory allotted for the Jewish National Home to be given to Arabs! Yet the Arabs attacked Israel refusing to accept even that UN compromise in 1948!
Why were the Albanian Muslim terrorists allowed to acquire Serbian territory (Kosovo) by terrorism and aggression? If you can't acquire territory by war by any means, then how can Kosovo exist when it has been Serbian territory for centuries? "Palestine" was Ottoman territory, but the LEague of Nations gave western Palestine to the Jews. It was not acquired by war. It was acquired legally from the League of Nations in 1920! Aggressors can never lose territory? Absurd!
"...city centres themselves had been the subject of intense attacks" And so on.
In other words, these warnings were not meant to help the Palis, they were merely propaganda to defend the Israel actions. The warnings were not got given consistently, they lacked credibility and helpful content.
The problem with the Goldstone Report is that Israel refused to participate in that whole farce and so practically all of the testimonies were from biased Gazans who put their own spins on things. Warnings were issued for specific buildings and other structures. Pathetic to watch you try to discredit all that Israel did to warn civilians.
@JerrySPsy . First you misquote the Goldstone report, then quote it out of context to completely alter what it is saying, and now are calling it a farce.
Goldstone- Jurist for War Crimes in Yugoslavia and Rawanda.....He chases escaped Nazi war criminals on a Global scale.......and you still see him as a light weight????.......that's a tough sell budy.
Colonel Richard Kemp of the U.K. : There has never been a time in the history of warfare when any army has made more efforts to reduce civilian casualties and deaths of innocent people than the IDF is doing today in Gaza. Hamas factored in the use of the civilian population as a major part of their defensive plan.
It was EXPLICITLY against International Law and the UN CHarter for the Arab states to attack the UN-AUTHORIZED state of Israel in 1948, or to blockade Israel's ports in 1967! As for the inadmissability of acquiring territory by war, that only makes sense when (1) your country was not attacked from that territory, and (2) you have no valid claim against that territory in the first place. A serial aggressor, such as the Arabs, cannot be punished by losing territory for starting wars? Absurd!
Yes, the right of Jews to return and restore their sovereignty was ordained by the League of Nations and then the UN. It is international law, which may clash with Sharia law.
Egypt did blockade the port of Eilat.
The "inadmissability of acquiring territory by war" applies to Arabs They had no right to try to acquire the state of Israel by war, They were only stopped by the IDF. THeir punishment is losing Jewish territory back to the Jews entitled to it according to the League of Nations law.
Well, the Arabs acquired our homeland when they attacked the Byzantine Romans, the previous occupiers of our Jewish soil. But they did not return it to us. And they overtaxed and humiliated Jews all the same. The Jews reacquired their homeland by international law, when the League of Nations correctly ruled to return all the land west of the Jordan river. But then the Arab uprisings and British treachery finally caused a Jewish insurgency that drove out the British. The UN then partitioned it..
The Arabs always called for war despite the UN Charter prohibition. To say that the criminals are the aggrieved party when they lose and are forced to give back stolen property is ludicrous. The LEague had already ruled that all the territory west of the Jordan river is the Jewish homeland. Jordan illegally annexed Judah and Samaria, and then attacked ISrael in 1967. That land belongs to the Jews, period!
Zionism began with Abraham, who left Ur with the promise of getting a land and having a nation. But regarding your assertion, Yemenite Jews actually started returning before Russian Jews in the early 1880s. The longing to return to the tribal homeland is innate to those who are true Jews.
The Great Dr Finklestein! Truth,Fact! is what he always! brings to the table!
32116181 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
45Charleston, 45chalrson, 45chariston, 45charieston etc...
no one has ever presumed you were original in your cut & paste hate speech have they Tom
bugsy8fuI 3 weeks ago
@45charIeston
You see the different between Professor Finkelstein and you is this: He is an academic that actually knows what he;s talking about; you are a notoriously racist ethnic supremacist sitting in his basement who thinks that the ethnic cleansing of millions of innocent Palestinians is Ok simply because you deem them as ethnically inferior.
See the difference there?
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist
Any day you would like to challenge me on Int Law , feel free to embarrass yourself.!
Fink said
"When I heard that Hitchens was dead, I took a deep breath.
The air felt cleaner, as if after a 40-day and 40-night downpour."
Fink is a boring asshole fake intellectual clueless about Int Law. He is a rambling idiot with no law background.
A political science PHD is child's play !
45charIeston 1 month ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist
I am a racist ???
One of my favourite authors is Tarek Fatah a Canadian Iranian Muslim ! My favourite food is East Indian 2nd is Mexican.
Do racists have Black, Jewish, East Indian,etc friends ?
You are the racist moron ! My personal doctor is from Trinidad .
Fink should know that he is a fraud blinded by hate like you !
Me , I am driven by facts & truth !
Int Law backs Israel who acted according to the San Remo Manual in self defence against a hostile
45charIeston 1 month ago
@45charIeston
Yes, in case you haven't heard, saying that it's OK to ethnically cleanse 5 million indigenous people simply because they;re considered ethnically inferior and then stealing their land is RACIST.
You are no better in the slightest than a standard Nazi.
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist
Yes & how do you rationalize the growing Pal Arab population ?
Gaza & WB have never had 5 million people moron ! There are approx 1.5 million . There is no genocide but there would be if Israel didn't defend herself !
You are a clueless idiot idiot without any truth!
You obviously are drowning in your own shit !
45charIeston 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost ALL have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."
- League of Nations 1920 Interim Report
-> "Almost ALL (Jews) entered during last 40 years!"
ZIONISTS GO BACK TO EUROPE!!
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist In 1990 the WB & Gaza had just over 1.5 million people according to the World Bank Report. Today they are 4.4 million people & the Infant death rate is on average with most Arab countries & much lower than Egypt !
You are clueless & should verify your lies before you open your mouth !
Find it hard to believe there are ignorants like you !
45charIeston 1 month ago
@45charIeston
I know racist ethnic supremacist scum like you don't consider them to be human, but, number of Palestinian refugees according to the UN (numbers per country now residing in):
Jordan 1,983,733
Lebanon 425,640
Syria 472,109[28]
West Bank 778,993
Gaza Strip 1,106,195
"We need to expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben Gurion
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist
Seems to me you are the racist.
Wouldn't you think ethnic cleansing would see a reduction of Pals in WB & Gaza.
Jordan has a peace treaty with Israel as does other Arab states like Egypt . If as you stated IDF are far superior fighters why haven't they really killed all the Pals as you claim they are doing ? Why hand Gaza over to Egypt after the 67 war ?
You are so fucking brain dead it is unbelievable . Show me where I said Pals were inferior !
45charIeston 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@45charIeston
I know racist ethnic supremacist scum like you don't consider them to be human, but, number of Palestinian refugees according to the UN (numbers per country now residing in):
Jordan 1,983,733
Lebanon 425,640
Syria 472,109[28]
West Bank 778,993
Gaza Strip 1,106,195
"We need to expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben Gurion
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost ALL have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."
- League of Nations 1920 Interim Report
-> "Almost ALL (Jews) entered during last 40 years!"
ZIONISTS GO BACK TO EUROPE!!
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
45charIeston 1 month ago
@45charIeston
ROFL at you voting your OWN comments up, How pathetic.
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@OrthodoxDarwinist
This is the exact wording of the law !
"102. The declaration or establishment of a blockade is prohibited if:
(a) it has the sole purpose of starving the civilian population or denying it other objects essential for its survival; or
(b) the damage to the civilian population is, or may be expected to be, excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated from the blockade."
concrete and direct military advantage anticipated
45charIeston 1 month ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@45charIeston
I know racist ethnic supremacist scum like you don't consider them to be human, but, number of Palestinian refugees according to the UN (numbers per country now residing in):
Jordan 1,983,733
Lebanon 425,640
Syria 472,109[28]
West Bank 778,993
Gaza Strip 1,106,195
"We need to expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben Gurion
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"In 2004, International Court of Justice noted the Security Council had described Israel's policy & practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories as a "flagrant violation" of the Fourth Geneva Convention; also Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestinian Territory have been established in breach of international law and that all parties to the Geneva Convention are under an obligation to ensure compliance by Israel with international law."
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist
Ben said
"Even amidst the violent attacks launched against us for months past, we call upon the sons of the Arab people dwelling in Israel to keep the peace and to play their part in building the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its institutions, provisional and permanent."
He also said to pay a fair price for any land that an Arab wants to sell estimation
45charIeston 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@45charIeston
I know racist ethnic supremacist scum like you don't consider them to be human, but, number of Palestinian refugees according to the UN (numbers per country now residing in):
Jordan 1,983,733
Lebanon 425,640
Syria 472,109[28]
West Bank 778,993
Gaza Strip 1,106,195
"We need to expel the Arabs and take their place." - David Ben Gurion
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"Four-fifths of the whole population are Moslems. Some 77,000 of the population are Christians, in large majority belonging to the Orthodox Church, and speaking Arabic. The Jewish element of the population numbers 76,000. Almost ALL have entered Palestine during the last 40 years. Prior to 1850 there were in the country only a handful of Jews."
- League of Nations 1920 Interim Report
-> "Almost ALL (Jews) entered during last 40 years!"
ZIONISTS GO BACK TO EUROPE!!
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"In 2004, International Court of Justice noted the Security Council had described Israel's policy & practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories as a "flagrant violation" of the Fourth Geneva Convention; also Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestinian Territory have been established in breach of international law and that all parties to the Geneva Convention are under an obligation to ensure compliance by Israel with international law."
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
@45charIeston are yuo a racist?
well derr Tom, after all you cut & paste from white supremacist hate sites.. the issue isnt whether you are racist, its why are you so stupid as to claim your pro israel but use anti jewish white supremacist hate sites to cut & paste your opinion from..
Hey Tom, whats with the char i eston , char l eston etc group of accounts that you use to thumb yourself up?
And are you sill a drunk Tom?
br0073012 1 month ago
@br0073012
Andrew nice to see you ! I thought you might have been knocked off again !
I didn't know the Red Cross commissioned San Remo Manual was a white Supremacist site !
Haven't you got any new drivel ? Same old BS !
The Voice of Canada is pro Israel as is the editor , former Peace Keeper Mark Vandermaas. Funny how he supports Israel after serving in Egypt during the 67 war !
Lets include Jihad Watch & UN Watch ,both pro Israel just like me . SUN Media pro Israel. Very smart
45charIeston 1 month ago 5
@br0073012
Funny how Dershowitz was proven right about Int Law as stated in the UN Palmer Report ! Told he was right !
Losers like you need to be locked up !
Spreading all those lies & fabrications.
45charIeston 1 month ago 4
@br0073012
"(Reuters) - The Palestine Investment Fund plans to build 30,000 homes for low-income families in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, a $1.5 billion endeavor supported by foreign backers to meet growing demand."
Poor oppressed Pals
45Charlston 1 month ago
i didnt see such a brave man like norman i wish that i have the pleasure of meeting him although he is jewish he didnt lie to serve his brother in religion but he stand up and says the truth
thank you mr norman.
smallville0forever 3 months ago
Poor Israel, same old diatribe, sharia, sharia, sharia. What a load of baloney!!
Magenta408 3 months ago
western liberals are insane, to much drugs, they can't think well
Islam is the most violent religion in the world.
Buddhists don't use airplanes to destroy buildings, hindus don't make bombs in UK, jews don't execute gay people in Israel, mormons don't kill children in school, Beslan.
Islam is the nazism of 21 century
liberal westerns are Neville Chamberlain
trifulquita15 4 months ago
Comment removed
givebirthathome 4 months ago
Norman Finkelstein is an extraordinarily lucid and courageous man.
37Dionysos 8 months ago
@37Dionysos Fink is an asshole.
Goldstone retracted his views about Israel & the Palmer UN report declares Israels blockade & attack on Mavi flotilla legal & justified. Goldstone report was wrong & Fink is wrong ! Hamas mandates the death of all Jews & destruction of Israel . Fink & people like him are a big part of the problem. Using Pakistan as a comparable situation is a fallacy !
Academic fool !!!
45Charleston 4 months ago
But isn't Israel a 'peace' loving nation?
Yes, they want a 'piece' of Lebanon; a 'piece' of Syria; a 'piece' of Iraq; a 'piece' of Saudi Arabia; a 'piece' of Egypt; a 'piece' of Jordan and whatever is left of the 'pieces' in Palestine after the Judeo- Nazis get thru 'wiping Gaza off the face of the Earth.'
LeseMajeste 9 months ago
---------------- /watch?v=_7LKQWJU0Ec
SamariaSHOMRONshomer 1 year ago
To all filthy zionists, stop stealing my tax money and Palestinian land.
YOU THIEVES!!
ameshabyebye 1 year ago
Totaly agree, there is no such a thing as a legitimate state called israel
Guevara1961 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Israel's Hypocrisy
Israel crossed a WORDWIDE blockade on APARTHEID South Africa to give it WEAPONS/TORTURE Equipment but complains when the WORLD wants to give FOOD/MEDICAL aid to impoverished Gazans?
Israel caused murder, destruction of property, kidnapping and destruction and with-holding of evidence.
And Israel is saying it was an act of self-defense?
Am I missing something here?
And US gives NA tionalistic ZI onists money why?
saadasim 1 year ago
If HAMAS was being supplied by Iran, why don't the rockets they have, have warheads. 3000 Rockets fired into Israel, and how many fatalities?
Seems to me these rockets are probably supplied by Israel without the warheads to minimize damage to israel, while maximizing Propoganda value.
rev12a 1 year ago
@rev12a Well Israel helped create Hamas in the 1980s remember. As an alternative to Fatah. Now the tiger is loose. Go figure.
Redcarpet01 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
World!!
" Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves. Menachem Begin - Israeli Prime Minister 1977–1983
ssharef 1 year ago 2
people think that israel i being singled out... no other country is violating international law the way israel is.....israeli's are pussy's hiding behind the gun....I'll put all my money on the palestinian throwing the rock if the israeli soldier/terrorist, put down that machine gun and put his fists up, bitches
Hkhan23 1 year ago
KILL THE ARABS,,ITS SO GOOD
tutaj99 1 year ago
@tutaj99 and why dont we kill all the filthy dirty basturd ruthless ugly zionst pigs like u
Guevara1961 1 year ago
There is an old polish proverb, "The Jew cries out in pain as he slaps you"
vfuturist 1 year ago
activist shmakctivist who would you like to be neighbors with?
by the way the video with the kid is fake
shpluk 1 year ago
activists shmactivists who would you like to be neighbors with?
shpluk 1 year ago
@Pipeeehhh The Hague Game is way more Fun.
LSRochon 1 year ago
Norman. Mere mortals like us owe a debt of gratitude for those like yourself who have the courage to charge over the trenches and tell it like it is. Keep fighting the lies and debauchery of the west and its Israel the client state.
quarkmuffin37 1 year ago
@krepIach2
You want a name? Mohammad.
Oh, so when palestinians shoot "harmless" rockets into cities, its defending your land (which was never yours), but when israel defends itself, its murder.
Gotcha.
And yes, typical of you to miss the point of what I said.
berenjervin 1 year ago
If we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day. If we don't kill we will cease to exist."
-Israeli Prof. Arnon Sofer of Haifa University, Jerusalem Post
'When I open the police files I find detailed reports about Jewish criminals. The archives have enough material for 100 historians and for 100 years, and even then they won't finish."
-- Mordechai Zalkin Haartez News. Jerusalem, November 2, 2004
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Well..
Are muslims waging jihad and terrorism against Israel? Yes.
Are muslims calling for the genocide of jews? Yes
Are muslims breaking international laws? Yes
Muslims themselves state their goal is the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the jews.
You expect jews not to kill you for shooting rockets at them, for using 12 year old suicide bombers, for using IEDs?
Stop whining, you are getting what you want and deserve.
berenjervin 1 year ago
IsraHell wages Jihad and terrorism against Muslims and Christians
Do Zionists call for Genocide? Yes, in their filthy TALMUD
Zionsts breaking international law? Yes-69UN Violations, world leader
Stated Goals destruction of Palestine and Expand Greater Israel? Yes
Zionist practice apartheid? Yes
These 'Rockets' have no charges on them, they are harmless, and often done by the Mossad and Shin Bet as false flags.
Leader of death for IDF is Suicide! Oh the Irony.
Oy Vey you Bagel Nazi
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
You do realize that when you post blatant bullshit like this, its better than anything I could ever say.
Why? Because muslims themselves are standing up and showing how dishonest they are.
Thank you.
Nothing gets through your thick skull does it? You are consumed with hatred against anyone that dares to create a country that isnt ruled by Islam.
This is a lesson to us all in just how twisted and sick a religious cult can make people.
Sad, really.
berenjervin 1 year ago
"I know how at least 80 percent of the clashes there started. It went this way: We would send a tractor to plow someplace where it wasn't possible to do anything, in the demilitarized area, and knew in advance that the Syrians would start to shoot. If they didn't shoot, we would tell the tractor to advance farther, until in the end the Syrians would get annoyed and shoot. And then we would use artillery and later the air force also, and that's how it was." -Israeli General Moshe Dayan
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent From Avi Shlaim's "The Iron Wall" An excellent book!
The author is a Jewish history professor.
Ti1nah 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent Get annoyed Jews were developing theor OWN land?
Its great to tease those Syrian snobs.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent You love your white supremacist Talmud and its blatant lies. Do you cuddle with it at night? Greater Israel? was the giving away of Gaza, South Lebanon, and Sinai leadeing to greater Israel LOL
Please stand under a Qassam to test its harmlessnes you big lying phony.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Quote from Asharq Alawsat editorial, Saudi Arabia, 08-03-2008: It is shameful that Hamas is depending on Syrian and Iranian accounts and is transforming the Palestinian cause into a bank for political objectives that are transferred to those two parties. The price: the blood of innocent victims that is shed for the sake of oiling the political wheel that corroded in Damascus and Tehran.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@krepIach2
The family names of many Arabs who now occupy the Holy Land reveal their country of origin: Masri (from Egypt-Hamas member of Parliament in Gaza, Mushir al-Masri ), Iraqi (from Iraq), Tarabulsi (from Tarabulus-Tripoli in Lebanon), Hourani (from Houran in Syria), Husseini (from Jordan), Saudi (from Saudi Arabia),Metzarwah(saudi Arabia),Bardawil(salah bardawil HAMAS legislator in gaza from egypt ,Bardawil lake aria)
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@krepIach2
You can spam spam spam all the threads you want. but your fishing with less bait each time. I will follow your cloness al over You Tube. Its obvious youre a parasite glomming off of You Tube immense size. But I can follow you and confise threads JUST like you!!!
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You know fake krepiach2 clone I can troll you just as efficiently as you troll me. IYou think youre confusing people trolling my comments. Its a two way street, as I follow you. You will never get a decent conversation you want, you desperately crave.
Cause I will follow you. You cant win as it will confuse people untill thet click on your name. Then they will see you are a parasite on You Tube.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@krepIach2
You know fake krepiach2 clone I can troll you just as efficiently as you troll me. IYou think youre confusing people trolling my comments. Its a two way street, as I follow you. You will never get a decent conversation you want, you desperately crave.
Cause I will follow you. You cant win as it will confuse people untill thet click on your name. Then they will see you are a parasite on You Tube.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@krepIach2
Trolling
Spamming
Cloning
Having no channel
Makes you stick out like a thumb!
Clicking makes you visible fake krepiach
kreplach2 1 year ago
@krepIach2
Is killing enemies murder? Thats debatable.
Even assassinating leaders is debatable.
Israelis understand they live in the Alamo.
The cost of losing is genocide.
So of course they are playing for keeps. And yet they still dont resort to sending children as suicide bombers.
berenjervin 1 year ago
"We must use Terror, Assassination, land confiscation, & the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population" -Israel Koenig, The Koenig Memorandum
'Let us Hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get Rid of our troubles & acquire our space"
-Moshe Dayan, Israel's Sacred Terrorism
"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants and even their beasts." -Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director Tsomet Inst
Israeli Haaretz, 3/26/2008
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent F A L S E Q U O T E Commissioner Israel Koenig NEVER WROTE:
We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.
That and other fake "Zionist quotes" are supposedly in his controversial report on Israeli Arabs in Galilee.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
I see you've been visiting "WhatReallyHappened".
Its got about 500 just quotes, pre-canned, ready for consumption.
If all these are true, given we just had a war in 2009, why are their palestinians still left?
berenjervin 1 year ago
@LSRochon, in your video description, why do you fail to mention the Red Army reprisal killings. You fail to mention Stalin's "Partisan Order" where he declared any soviet sitizen behind enemy lines who did not fight the Germans were to be shot or hanged. You fail to mention the German civilians that the western Allies raped, tortured or shot. Finkelstein just doesn't want the Truth about the Holocaust to come out so he plays the righteous jew, touring and selling books.
FreiKonigsberg 1 year ago
6:25 everybody should watch it, and learn about motherf%#ker isreali army they true terroists,i feel sorry for the boy .
ysyilmas 1 year ago
How about we apply international law to palestinians who routinely use "civilians" to wage war.
berenjervin 1 year ago
@berenjervin
The Goldstone Report does that...have you read it???It's around 575 pages long with video and photo evidence compiled as evidence for both sides :)
If you want the link I can send it to you.
Cheers..
LSRochon 1 year ago
@LSRochon
Sure - is it just propaganda? Or does it actually look at the realities?
berenjervin 1 year ago
There is no standard military in Occupied Palestine.
No Navy, No Air Force, No Special Forces.
The Palestinian People ARE The Military, fighting for their land, Defending it From Israeli Occupation and theft.
Moron
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Resolution 181 (1947)
The armed forces of the mandatory Power shall be progressively withdrawn from Palestine, the withdrawal to be completed as soon as possible but in any case not later than 1 August 1948.
LSRochon 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Resolution 242 (1967)
Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;
LSRochon 1 year ago
Yes UN 242 AND UN 338
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
This is true. Islamic nations have a long history of not being productive.
And Palestinians have spend 62 years focused on tearing down israel, not building up anything of their own.
Not being organized doesnt surprise me at all.
Israel has demonstrated over and over it can take gaza anytime it wants. Yet hasnt done so in 62 years. Can you explain that?
And you have the audacity and arrogance to call me a moron?
You are a tool of others, incapable of thinking for youself.
berenjervin 1 year ago
Islam was one of the most productive civilizations ever. While Khazar Asian Jews were phallic woshippers.
Israel divides and conquers them, forments discord and civil war-Iran/Iraq, Jordan/Palestine etc
Israel cant just take Gaza, Israel was defeated in Lebanon just 2 years ago.
Occupation is expensive & arduous
Jews tread lightly but work to win through attrition, preferring to wear them down
Israel had expanded their territory double the 1947 partition plan and practices Apartheid/Occupation
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Isreal with 7 million people is more productive than ~1 billion muslims in the middle east.
And when you look back 1400 years, all you see is darkness in the middle east. Virtually nothing happened.
Islamic nations have no industrial base, trivial military, no real scientific achievements.
This is not a criticism of muslims, this is a criticism of how islam has stunted your progress.
>double the 1947 partition plan
Uh, yea ok. Where did you hear that?.
berenjervin 1 year ago
Productive with the $1 trillion in Welfare, from the USA.
And Stealing our trade secrets, patents and discoveries. Real productive alright.
The Middle East thrived-Dumbass
Soap, Surgical instruments, Clock, pin hole camera, Innocculations, First Checking accounts, Universities, Agronomy, PreFab housing, Sky scrapers, Camshaft, Mathematics, all invented BY Muslims and Arabs.
IF Americans Knew Website has Map of UN Partition vs today
1948 alone, Israeli declaratrion stole 23% of Palestine.
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Total "welfare" (as you call it) to palestinians for 2008-2010 was 7.7 billion.
This was pledged to the Palestinian Reform and Development Program
Hamas called the conference that pledge money to palestinians a declaration of war. (I think because the money doesnt go directly to Hamas).
.
You cant count stuff invented by people before islam enslaved them as dhimmi
And dont you think chinese were doing mathematics well before Mohammad was born? I think your list need some work
berenjervin 1 year ago
Israel has cost the United States about $1.6 trillion
By David R. Francis, Christian Science Monitor
12/9/2002
This is an estimate by Thomas Stauffer, consulting economist in Washington For decades, his analyses of the Middle East scene have made him a frequent thorn in the side of the Israel lobby
Stauffer has tallied the total cost to the US of its backing of Israel in its drawn-out, violent dispute with the Palestinians. So far the bill adds up to more than 2x the cost of the Vietnam War'
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Did he compare that to the cost of letting muslims finish what they started in Qurayza?
And who do you think those jihadists are going to focus on when Israel is gone? Hamas already owns CAIR.
When those in power openly state they want to see you, your race, and your culture exterminated - believe them.
- Auchwitz survivor
I've seen enough muslims chanting for the extermination of jews and americans.
After 62 years of jihad, morons like Finkle still exist.
berenjervin 1 year ago
@berenjervin
And its not just americans. Russians, chinese, Thais, Europe, Aftrica adn even islamic states are all dealing with islamic violence against anyone that isnt a radical islamist.
Dont be so quick to break down a wall that protects you from real world barbarism. Go watch some beheading and stoning clips if none of this is sinking in.
berenjervin 1 year ago
Hamas WAS Created BY Israel and the Mossad
To Counter PLO and Arafat, remember?
Israel is the most oppressive Apartheid, War mongering state in existance.
It IS Evil personified. Occupation, War, Bloodletting, Racism, Ethnic cleansing are the legacy.
But keep on Pimpin if you must, youre a Zionist Jew, so I understand your neurosis and psychosis. Its ok.
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Yes, Israel is so evil it has never expanded its borders permanently.
Israel is so evil it kills people who shoot rockets into its cities.
Its so evil it dares to protect itself from suicide bombers
Its so evil muslim religious leaders call for genocide
Its so evil Palestinians raised an entire generation of children that are so brainwashed they want to blew themselves up as martyrs
Comparing the worst of israel to the best of palestine clearly establishes israel is evil. I see
berenjervin 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Israel:
Has Created 4 million+ Refugees
Holds World's record for UN Violations at 69+, Killed more innocent civilians per capita than any other country 50,000,
Has Imprisoned more civilians per cap 250,000 , Has rendered more civilians Handicapped per cap 50,000
Demolished more homes than any other country 60,000+
Outlawed marriage to Non-Jews, Destroyed 350 Christian Churches & Mosques
6 Wars in 60 years
254 km of Apartheid Wall, 562 Check Points and Has Ethnically cleansed 531 villages
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Have enough self respect to not to present obvious lies.
6 wars? Started by who? Muslims
UN Violations....palestinians crank out more than that on every rocket attack
Ever heard of Nanking?
LOL...make some more up, but this time make them a little believable
berenjervin 1 year ago
"We must use Terror, Assassination, land confiscation, & the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population" -Israel Koenig, The Koenig Memorandum
'Let us Hope for a new war with the Arab countries, so that we may finally get Rid of our troubles & acquire our space"
-Moshe Dayan, Israel's Sacred Terrorism
"All of the Palestinians must be killed; men, women, infants & even their beasts." -Rabbi Yisrael Rosen, director Tsomet Inst
Israeli Haaretz, 3/26/2008
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Given Israel has the means to kill every palestinian man, women, and child, and that comment was 2 years ago, we can see the propaganda at play.
Its not enough to quote a book and say "See!?!?". You need to base your accusations on people's actions.
And the action of Israel has always been defensive. Yes, there are times when they take land and make settlements. Can you blame them after 62 years of Jihad?
And the muslim position is to take ALL of israel and genocide the jews
berenjervin 1 year ago
@berenjervin In conclusion, the Court considers that Israel cannot rely on a right of self-defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. The Court accordingly finds that the construction of the wall and its associated régime are contrary to international law.
-International Court of Justice in the Hague
Press Release 2004/28
LSRochon 1 year ago
@LSRochon
The objection was not about the wall, it was an objection to building the wall in Palestinian territory.
As much as I do support Israel's overall position, I cant argue with the Palestinian objections that the wall NOT be build outside Israel. (i.e. Inside Palestinian territory)
If Israel wants a wall, fine, but it should be INSIDE their territory.
I dont see the relevance to anything tho. Both sides are playing hardball. Is this "worse" than suicide bombers?
berenjervin 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@LSRochon Really ??
Well the UN Palmer Report states that the right of self defence is paramount & therefore the blockade is legal as is defending the block !de against flotillas which try to breach it !
Yes funny how San Remo Manual 1994, the law of naval conflict & blockades , the current Humanitarian Law contradicts the ICJ & Fink !
Fink they are enforcing the law by recognizing Israel as a state that has the right to defend ! Ask Dershowitz a real legal genius not a misguided activist
45Charleston 4 months ago 4
@45Charleston
Ahhh 45Charleston, one of my favourite Zionist ethnic supremacists! How's it going?
"In conclusion, the Court considers that Israel cannot rely on a right of self‑defence or on a state of necessity in order to preclude the wrongfulness of the construction of the wall. The Court accordingly finds that the construction of the wall and its associated régime are contrary to international law." -International Court of Justice Press Release 2004/28
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@OrthodoxDarwinist
Doing great unlike you! examine facts !
UN Palmer Report backs Israel & Alan
Goldstone reversed his view that IDF targets civis & reprimanded Hamas fighting from civis locals.
The UN sends aid through Israel
The flotillas were stopped
Gaza is trying for statehood like Israel did & stopped attacking Israel
This is what Alan has stated
Fink used a 1000 words to say nothing in order to sell idiots like you his books ! Fink is wrong !
45charIeston 1 month ago
@OrthodoxDarwinist
Fink is the most boring pseudo-intellectual asshole on the planet!
He hasn't got a clue about international law. the law that applies is not the Geneva Convention!
The quotes of Goldstone are outdated and the correct law is San Remo manual 1994! Blockades are legal if for a military purpose! Fink is out of his realm of expertise. If he had a clue he would know that Israel complies to the San Remo manual and supplies aid in accordance with it!
45charIeston 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"In 2004, International Court of Justice noted the Security Council had described Israel's policy & practices of settling parts of its population and new immigrants in the occupied territories as a "flagrant violation" of the Fourth Geneva Convention; also Israeli settlements in Occupied Palestinian Territory have been established in breach of international law and that all parties to the Geneva Convention are under an obligation to ensure compliance by Israel with international law."
OrthodoxDarwinist 1 month ago
@LSRochon
The ICJ did not rule against Israels right of self defence. They issued an "advisory opinion" that Israel could not rely on necessity of self defence .
They are as screwed up as the UN General Assembly & issue unenforceable resolutions sponsored by Arab states & some Euro trash.
The Int community does nothing because Israel is acting in accordance with Int law. Fink you are an idiot who has no clue about Int law.
45Charleston 4 months ago
The real 'Jihad' is the Kosher Jihad, of Stealing land, Building Settlements, Violating UN Law, Assasinating leaders, Collective punishment on Palestinian Civilians, Apartheid.
Defensive?
Yes, Israel 'defends' herself the same way an armed robber shoots an innocent victim to steal his possessions.
Your Talmudic Lies and logic arent welcome any longer and wont be tolerated.
The world has awoken to the misery youve caused.
You Bagel Nazi
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Are Palestinians innocent? Not by a long shot.
They shoot rockets into a sovereign state, they send suicide bombers, they plant IEDs etc. They call for the destruction of Israel.
If Palestinians had not of done this, would Israel be doing what you say? Probably not. They dont do it to anyone else.
Its more like Israel defends itself from people outside screaming "I'm going to kill you" and shooting at their house. Sometimes you need to go into the street and shoot back.
berenjervin 1 year ago
Israel:
Has Created 4 million+ Refugees
Holds World's record for UN Violations at 69+, Killed more innocent civilians per capita than any other country 50,000
Has Imprisoned more civilians per cap 250,000 , Has rendered more civilians Handicapped per cap 50,000
Demolished more homes than any other country 60,000+
Outlawed marriage to Non-Jews, Destroyed 350 Christian Churches & Mosques
6 Wars in 60 years
254 km of Apartheid Wall, 562 Check Points and Has Ethnically cleansed 531 villages
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Apparently Israel needs to do more.
Why? Palestinians continue to shoot rockets, violate international law, use suicide bombers to further their goal of replacing Israel with an Islamic state and genociding the jews.
This whole conflict is nothing more than Jihad, warfare by any and every means available to establish Islamic rule.
Fascism, nazism, communism, islamism.
3 down, 1 to go?
berenjervin 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
And the end of the day, anyone who understands whats going on there will understand its the Palestinians that are the aggressors - even though they are outmatched.
Palestinians insist on replacing Israel with an islamic state with Sharia law which subjugates non muslims as 3rd class citizens.
Israel allows muslims to live as free and equal people in their country, but wont put up with the jihad and terrorism that the rest of the world is living with and losing tolerance for.
berenjervin 1 year ago
Tutu condemns Israeli 'Apartheid'
April 2002 BBC UK
South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu has accused Israel of practising apartheid in its policies towards the Palestinians.
The Nobel peace laureate said he was very deeply distressed by a visit to the Holy Land, adding that "it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa.
In a speech in the US, Archbishop Tutu said he saw "the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints & roadblocks, suffering like us"
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
(Jerusalem, November 22, 2006) Palestinian armed groups must not endanger Palestinian civilians by encouraging them to gather in and around suspected militants homes targeted by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF), Human Rights Watch said today.
Calling civilians to a location the opposing side identified for attack is human shielding, failing to take all feasible precautions to protect civilians from the effects of attack. Both are violations of international humanitarian law.
berenjervin 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
But come on, keep posting. There are pages of these pre-canned "quotes" at "whatreallyhappened". Should keep you going for a week or two.
berenjervin 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Hamas was aided by Israel when they were were a social welfare organization.
It wasnt founded by Israel, you idiot. The military wing was created whem the PLO signed Oslo. Nothing more stupid and evil than a Jew Hater.
kreplach2 1 year ago
Youre Anti Gentile and a Bagel Nazi
'Hamas is a Creation of Mossad'
by H. Zerouky, Global Research
Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)". Prime Minister Golda Meir, saw this as a an opportunity to counterbalance the rise of Arafats Fatah movement.'
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
I love how Jew haters must encapsulzise THE ENEMY!!
Its all BS! Hamas was aises as a social work orgnization to counter the corrupt PLO. They were always corrupt. Just to show you how wrong you are Golda Meir resigned in 1974 and Hamas wasnt established untill the 1980s. once the PLO signed Oslo; Hamas set up a military wing to resume the fight to drive the Jews into the sea.
kreplach2 1 year ago
Hamas is a Creation of Mossad
by H. Zerouky, Global Outlook, 2002
Thanks to the Mossad, Israel's "Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks", the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Youre too simple to see that your quote is trying to connect events years apart. Therefore the global outlook excerpt STILL has no crebilibilty.. Golda Meir resigned in 1974. Hamas military wing wasnt until 1993. You cant connect whats no there.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Source given: Cited in Lustick, Ian, Arabs in the Jewish State, University of Texas Press, Texas, 1980.
Koenig didn't say it, and Lustick never wrote that he said it. This same fabricated Zionist quote is also attributed to David Ben Gurion in 1948.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Is Hamas fighting for the West bank?? I dont think so. Are they fighting the occupation? There are no Jews in Gaza.
kreplach2 1 year ago
Jews Slither all over Gaza.
Mossad Sayan run missions throughout Gaza.
Yes, Hamas is fighting The Occupation.
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent Really? Can you provide ANY ANY ANY links saying there is Mossad in Gaza? Anything at all?? Even from Hamas. You know theyd look mighty stupid admitting that fairy tale.
Try thinking next time.
kreplach2 1 year ago
We now know that 'Al-CIAeda' or Mossad, tried to infiltrated Hamas, according to reports in Occupied Palestine.
"Extremists' etc
Victor Ostrovsky-Former Mossad, defector and author, agent wrote all about Mossad infiltration of PLO, Fatah and Hamas
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent Speculation is not fact. Suspicion is not fact.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent
Didnt you just say that Hamas was a Jewish operation? Now theyre infiltrating themselves?? LMAO
kreplach2 1 year ago
Intel and Counter Intelligence..
Spies, Agents and double agents
All in a days work for Zionist Trash..Zio J*E*Ws Slither all over Gaza and the West Bank
StSimonOfTrent 1 year ago
@StSimonOfTrent If I need ro point out slither I just nof at my troll krepiach the Jew hater who just slithered over here in his impersonation of me.
kreplach2 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
kreplach2 1 year ago
God bless who who defend Justice.
God bless you Dr, Finkelstein.
A Muslim
bjeddahb 2 years ago 12
@bjeddahb
Allah doesnt bless liars and distorters.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 Exactly, God does not bless liars and distorters. Furthermore, he does not bless who kill innocent people and he will punish them for that.
bjeddahb 1 year ago
@bjeddahb
Really have you taken any surveys or polls to determine these innocent people. And why are they firing weapons at Jews, these innocent people?
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 Yes, It was not ME who done the survey and reports but other people. Zionists took a land from innocent people by force and and expect from them to take it back by force, not with kisses and roses.
bjeddahb 1 year ago
@kreplach2 go to ifamericansknew org
bjeddahb 1 year ago
@bjeddahb
Ive been there since November. Check for me.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@bjeddahb
Other pople? Who are these mysterious OTHER PEOPLE??? When was the land taken by force?? Lets see some backstory or are you all hearsay and innuendo?
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 I think you are living in a dream and not in this world. Researchers and historian say that the land was taken by force. We live in modern world and it is documented and the whole world knows it. Don't live in denial man. You asked for the survey of innocent people being killed by Israelis and here it is go to this web site ifamericansknew org
bjeddahb 1 year ago
@bjeddahb Why ? Are you measuring Theta waves from my brain?? LOL!!!
What fictional researchers and historians?? Where? Give me details my brainwashed poster. No its only documented between your ears. Its a myth. All documents point to attempted genocide by Arabs. Not land taken by force.
If Americansknew is a faker, like you, named Tom Murphy. Try harder to back up your lies.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 I did not measure anything, but your sayings are out of reality. I gave you that website so you can trace from where he got his info, but it seems that you didnt bother doing it. The site quote from the UN, human rights and from Israeli websites, Which are not Arab sites like you assumed. Such as btselem,org and (mfa gov il) and .ochaopt org ..etc. You can always trace back the sources which the site provide. People are not stupid as you think. I hope you stop denying dude.
bjeddahb 1 year ago
@bjeddahb Nice.
LSRochon 1 year ago
@LSRochon
How nice???
kreplach2 1 year ago
@bjeddahb You got nerve to rate my sayings out of reality. MAYBE YOUR DISTORTED REALITY. You gave me an UNRELIABLE BIASED WEBSITE. How about some real history not opinion. Youre bucking for stupid poster of the year.
The whole game of yours is evasion off the arguement.
kreplach2 1 year ago
@kreplach2 I guess there will be no end to this conversation. The site gives numbers and not opinions. These numbers are from as I said before ( UN , Human Rights organizations, Israeli websites ...etc) and I think those are really UNBIASED reliable sources for anybody. Go check it your self. You see now in one hand we have your opinion and in the other hand we have this site which provides numbers and facts from UNBIASED sources. Sorry your opinion is not good enough.
bjeddahb 1 year ago
@kreplach2 No clear minded person will take anyone's word for it...they'll confirm the any claim to other sources, and it's even more damning when Israel Human Rights Organization and Israeli Government admit to the statistics......
LSRochon 1 year ago
@LSRochon
They admit WHAT in the stats??? Spit it out.
kreplach2 1 year ago
Two weeks ago, an already fragile humanitarian situation resulting from the mounting effects of months of shortages, saw a dramatic downturn. The fighting resumed, with an Israeli army incursion into Gaza and a RETALIATORY barrage of militant rocket fire.
--BBC News, Nov. 20, 2008
LSRochon 2 years ago
"I was not aware of a distinction, for me the settlements have always been illegal on the basis of the Geneva Convention" -Hans Correl (Former UN Under-Secretary General for Legal Affairs) Thursday, 7 January 2010 BBC News, Jerusalem
LSRochon 2 years ago
Danish Tv is so bias, I am glad that I don't live in that country which is racist and anti islamist.
beaujam90 2 years ago
Does the UN have the right to violate international law? That is the question. The Council of the League of Nations was set up after WWI to establish "international law." It ruled that Palestine is the Jewish National Home. What right did the UN have to come along, 25 years later, and suddenly give part of Palestine to the Arabs after the LoNs had ruled otherwise 25 years earlier on?
JBGodzilla 2 years ago
The United Nations violated international law by partitioning Palestine and offering the Arabs nearly half of it when the COUNCIL of the League 25 years earlier had already RULED that western Palestine was the "Jewish National Home." It had unilaterally taken away territory allotted for the Jewish National Home to be given to Arabs! Yet the Arabs attacked Israel refusing to accept even that UN compromise in 1948!
JBGodzilla 2 years ago
Why were the Albanian Muslim terrorists allowed to acquire Serbian territory (Kosovo) by terrorism and aggression? If you can't acquire territory by war by any means, then how can Kosovo exist when it has been Serbian territory for centuries? "Palestine" was Ottoman territory, but the LEague of Nations gave western Palestine to the Jews. It was not acquired by war. It was acquired legally from the League of Nations in 1920! Aggressors can never lose territory? Absurd!
JBGodzilla 2 years ago
"...city centres themselves had been the subject of intense attacks" And so on.
In other words, these warnings were not meant to help the Palis, they were merely propaganda to defend the Israel actions. The warnings were not got given consistently, they lacked credibility and helpful content.
Pathetic to watch Israel's dishonesty
oldjoe5 2 years ago
oldjoe,
The problem with the Goldstone Report is that Israel refused to participate in that whole farce and so practically all of the testimonies were from biased Gazans who put their own spins on things. Warnings were issued for specific buildings and other structures. Pathetic to watch you try to discredit all that Israel did to warn civilians.
JerrySPsy 2 years ago
@JerrySPsy . First you misquote the Goldstone report, then quote it out of context to completely alter what it is saying, and now are calling it a farce.
oldjoe5 2 years ago
Goldstone- Jurist for War Crimes in Yugoslavia and Rawanda.....He chases escaped Nazi war criminals on a Global scale.......and you still see him as a light weight????.......that's a tough sell budy.
LSRochon 2 years ago
@oldjoe5
Colonel Richard Kemp of the U.K. : There has never been a time in the history of warfare when any army has made more efforts to reduce civilian casualties and deaths of innocent people than the IDF is doing today in Gaza. Hamas factored in the use of the civilian population as a major part of their defensive plan.
JerrySPsy 2 years ago
@JerrySPsy; Kemp again? Sheesh. Ignore the Goldstone report, the UN resolutions, international law, but rely on this Kemp fellow
oldjoe5 2 years ago
It was EXPLICITLY against International Law and the UN CHarter for the Arab states to attack the UN-AUTHORIZED state of Israel in 1948, or to blockade Israel's ports in 1967! As for the inadmissability of acquiring territory by war, that only makes sense when (1) your country was not attacked from that territory, and (2) you have no valid claim against that territory in the first place. A serial aggressor, such as the Arabs, cannot be punished by losing territory for starting wars? Absurd!
JBGodzilla 2 years ago
@JBGodzilla
1. "the UN-AUTHORIZED state of Israel" exactly
2. " blockade Israel's ports in 1967" NEVER happened.
3. "As for the inadmissability of acquiring territory by war" It is always inadmissable period.
oldjoe5 2 years ago
Yes, the right of Jews to return and restore their sovereignty was ordained by the League of Nations and then the UN. It is international law, which may clash with Sharia law.
Egypt did blockade the port of Eilat.
The "inadmissability of acquiring territory by war" applies to Arabs They had no right to try to acquire the state of Israel by war, They were only stopped by the IDF. THeir punishment is losing Jewish territory back to the Jews entitled to it according to the League of Nations law.
JBGodzilla 2 years ago
@JBGodzilla . Now the arabs acquired the state of Israel? Wow. You are truly insane
oldjoe5 2 years ago
Well, the Arabs acquired our homeland when they attacked the Byzantine Romans, the previous occupiers of our Jewish soil. But they did not return it to us. And they overtaxed and humiliated Jews all the same. The Jews reacquired their homeland by international law, when the League of Nations correctly ruled to return all the land west of the Jordan river. But then the Arab uprisings and British treachery finally caused a Jewish insurgency that drove out the British. The UN then partitioned it..
JBGodzilla 2 years ago
The Arabs always called for war despite the UN Charter prohibition. To say that the criminals are the aggrieved party when they lose and are forced to give back stolen property is ludicrous. The LEague had already ruled that all the territory west of the Jordan river is the Jewish homeland. Jordan illegally annexed Judah and Samaria, and then attacked ISrael in 1967. That land belongs to the Jews, period!
JBGodzilla 2 years ago
@JBGodzilla "the Byzantine Romans" Jesus H. Christ. Why not go back to the Homo Sapiens coming out of Africa and doing in the Neanderthals.
Given the fact that the modern day zionists trace their roots to Russia, your 2,000 year old land claim is even more ridiculous
oldjoe5 2 years ago
Zionism began with Abraham, who left Ur with the promise of getting a land and having a nation. But regarding your assertion, Yemenite Jews actually started returning before Russian Jews in the early 1880s. The longing to return to the tribal homeland is innate to those who are true Jews.
JBGodzilla 2 years ago
True Jews have nothing to do with the Zionist murder machine
oldjoe5 2 years ago 12