The Donner Party Part 3

[mediumrare415]

Four viewers drive 2 miles from home to the Super Walmart and complain about the distance.

[diddims]

I still can't believe that Bridger deliberately hid Bryant's letters (warning about the danger of the "shortcut") and just lied right to the faces of these immigrants! Was the bribe from Hastings really that tempting? How could he lie to them knowing that he could be sending them to their deaths? He's just as guilty as Hastings of criminal negligence!

[smithrs]

Starting around 5:10, are any of those pictures authentic? My understanding is there was no such thing as widespread use of photography in 1846.

[HomburghGuy]

@smithrs Most likely they're from the 1850s-1860s. Stock photographs to help show the type of environments the Donner Party would have encountered.

[diddims]

@HomburghGuy Yeah, and most of the photographs of the survivors were taken after the disaster. I can tell from the expression on Margret Reed's face.

[quaxk]

not sure why this documentary doesn't mention Edwin Bryant letters that Jim Bridger hid, it's quite an important part of the story I think

[Methrt3]

Who's more foolish? The fool? or the fool who follows?

[FortitudeOfHeaven]

Anyone think Hastings knowingly led them to their doom?

[matty2578]

@FortitudeOfHeaven Hastings is guilty of incredibly reckless behavior, but I do not think he intended to kill people. He was an extremely amibitious and ultimately incompetent promoter, but that is a far cry from being an intentional murderer.

[Duskofdead]

@matty2578 By any reasonable standard today he'd still be guilty of criminal negligence. He was insisting upon the safety of a route he'd never personally travelled with a wagon party, in a situation where delays or slowdowns could get people killed or trapped by snow.

[couchpotato65]

Hastings you jerk

[comgeek24]

I like the harmonica bits. I hear that tune in my head now whenever it gets real hot (and it has) here, lol.

[rickyfan3956]

@CecilRhodesIlluminat Might I remind you that if it weren't for a woman, YOU WOULDN'T BE HERE?

[Timuramaru]

@rickyfan3956 he's obviously mad because no woman will give him any play

[kakashi76767]

2:41  Some people will do anything to get out of bad traffic.

[lushie]

Wow just 10-12 miles on a good day? Times sure have changed.

[polishsausage5]

that harmonica part in the soundtrack is awesome

[eternaldragon1234]

I heard one of the pioneers died of overeating when they were starving. Got into the food stores and stuffed himself. How do you die from that???

[DOMORCIDEA]

@eternaldragon1234 if you dont eat for a long period and then fill your stomach quickly the body goes into shock and the heart gives out

[lacouerfairy]

These quotes about Americans are true though. Always wanting more, more, more, never seeming to be content with what they have. I still have not figured out why they needed to make this journey. I don't know how James Reed and the other leaders lived with themselves, dragging poor defenseless children into death for no good reason.

[veda1954]

@lacouerfairy Watch the first episode. It tells you there was disease in Springfield. They went to find a better, healthier life.

Had it not been for pioneers like these, America would not be the place it is today.

[chestateegold]

@lacouerfairy

at the beginning they mentioned that the economy in the east was crumbling.

[roo7227]

@lacouerfairy You just don't understand americans.. It's not like Europe, where the lands were explored from sea to the urals by neanderthals.. These people had a burning desire to settle their continent, and basically were driven by manifest destiny.. It's not right, wrong, logical, or illogical, it just is..

[LittleMissiHeartM]

@lacouerfairy

They took a risk to improve their lives for themselves and their prosperity. They were brave and had an incredible spirit of adventure. If you would have watched the previous parts you would have heard that California was said to be like the Garden of Eden...

[LittleMissiHeartM]

@lacouerfairy

It's not just Americans that want more--that's the nature of the human spirit in general.

[boogieman2490]

The main dirt trail must have been so dusty & so bumpy that you would practically lose your sanity. After a thousand miles of that I could see how the Donner Party was tempted to take a short cut. This event is so tragic & at the same time one of the most memorable of the darker side of the westward migration history.

[tialeetull]

average mileage a day - 12. 12 miles in a wagon - all day getting bumped, bucked, swaggered, etc. awful travel - hard to truly grasp how uncomfortable this would have been.

and they got sick and tired of each other's company when things started and continued to wrong, wrong, wrong. a fight, defense, death, murder? when the tale gets bad - it gets worse - and worse. unbelievable that any survived. especially james reed........

[laynejakeeli]

Are these REAL photos from the actual donner part or old stock stuff that they are making work for the story. WOW

[dustin35713]

The music of this doc is so awesomely haunting! Thank you for uploading this!

[TyteFystedFolkie]

@dustin35713 The music is "Dark Spanish Symphony by Angelo Badalamenti.

[mchchicago78]

this doc is creepier than most hollywood trash these days.

in fact, i can't wait til they do make one.

[BeMyBelarus]

What does it mean to "die of consumption" ?

[clancy76]

Consumption = Tuberculosis.

[Aetheryn23]

5:26 If the trail was impassible, how did the wagon train with Hastings that was a week ahead of the Donners get through?

Unless some rocks fell or something and blocked the path during that time... (I play Oregon Trail too much for my own good).

[xFlyswatterx]

lol is the game oregon trail based on this??

[ahkoifish]

no, its a game for 5-6th graders and its actually really fun

[ahkoifish]

but its about making it to your own destination on your own time and doing what you want

[ladyhrist]

@Aetheryn23 Actually I imagine you're very close to the truth. The Wasatch range is more or less an extension of the Rockies; if you've ever driven through either areas, you'll see WATCH FOR FALLING ROCKS signs everywhere - especially as the grade gets steeper through the passes. It's a fairly common hazard in areas where the soil is eroded by dry weather and other factors.

[rickyfan3956]

4:18 Mr. Bridger was either a liar, paid off by Hastings or not so great a mountain man as everyone believed.

[atomicgeek]

@rickyfan3956 There's a theory that he WAS being paid off (or paying off) Hastings. Fort Bridger stood to make a lot of money off emigrants if Hastings' Cutoff became the main trail to California, but if they were spooked off by a bad trail, the fort would be left obsolete by the safer route. Nobody knows for sure, though.

[rickyfan3956]

@atomicgeek So, in other words, he probably knew that the trail was a bad trail but he chose to wink at it or turn a blind eye to it, so long as he was getting money from the passersby. That is, IF that theory is, indeed, true.

[MiloDC]

2:46 Welcome to Hell

[palmz51]

Great Stuff!!

[weee30]

this is Great PBS production, I have always wonder why to they never took mountin man james advise ?

[matthair3]

many thanks clancy 76 for the video, truly fascinating!!