Your point at 4:15 is a contradiction. These rights may be self evident to us looking at the world through our own cultural lens, but to say that 'the collective' recognizes rights to be above the say-so of the collective is circular logic. It's possible to imagine situations where a man alone without a peer to say otherwise, would not have each of these rights, which disproves the idea that they are somehow universal.
what ? TF is anti profit ..really ..on YT or in general ? wait TF are you saying that HTWW does not even believe what he himself says , how could you possibly know what he believes ?
Ad hominem isn't just insulting someone, it's disregarding someone's whole argument just because of one irrelevant thing. Thunderf00t never once says that these insults against HowTheWorldWorks are grounds to ignore his entire argument. In fact, a good deal of the video is spent refuting said argument. If it was an ad hominem, he would have just insulted HTWW a bit and moved on with his day.
Calling out everyone for their errors is absolutely necessary. I've always felt a little sad when he has used derogatory remarks like those, despite my sympathy with him against people whom I consider to be truly bigoted and intentionally misleading such as Ben Stein, VenomFangX, etc. The reason that arguments from science have such an advantage over those from pseudoscience is that the facts speak for themselves, and anything more than that is unnecessary and perhaps self-defeating.
@66gt40lm LOL, did you actually watch the video? You probably should have. He mentions something about attacking things like looks and logos instead of arguments... ;-)
Although I don't like it much, I've come to understand that it's impossible to engage with these YR propagandists without retaliating in a bit of ad hominem. I mean, why the hell not; they pour it on in massive doses. I've watched enough TF videos to know that the man has ample knowledge to back up most of what he says, I just think that it falls on deaf ears if he doesn't take the piss out of some people first, and if HTTW doesn't deserve it, nobody does.
While ad hominem attacks may be in bad taste, they are not necessarily fallacious. Thus it does not imply that the point raised by the attack is moot... i.e., this guy still may be a thick, money-grubbing, attention whore and therefore we should be skeptical of the content extolled on his platform.
@greenManilishi "this guy still may be a thick, money-grubbing, attention whore". That tells me right away that you are unreasonable. Don't spew slander if you can't back it up. Feel free to try. Money-grubbing? News flash, half the youtube channels out there have ads. Some people need to (or like to) make a living. In this case, it is irrelevant to the validity of his arguments anyway. Attention whore? Because he's on youtube? Him, Thunderf00t and millions of others. You'd best get over it.
notice all the thunderf00t drones disliking this video. and as for all of thunderf00t's insults on howtheworldworks' appearance,... nobody as ugly as thunderf00t should ever attack someone else's appearance.
@bokros ...right on....something i did find out too is that most of these atheists channels have subscribers that does not exists or are mirrors from other users,i think i can prove in a court of law that 90% of the views,ratings and comments in most of the atheists channels comes from few users under diffrent channels.That really bothers me since from 2000 subscribers 1500 don't have pictures or videos or are a mirror from a christian user.People should look into that.
Insulting someone does not constitute an ad hom. In every example you use, he's ADDRESSING HTWW as an idiot. His argument was not "You're wrong because you stare a lot." His argument was "You're wrong because of this, this, and this, AND you're an idiot who stares a lot and begs for subcribers."
At least Thunderf00t's ad hominems are in a sense of humour; rather than to make up for the lack of an argument they gently assist the argument with an occasional cheap laugh. It adds a twist of entertainment into an otherwise deadly serious video. That's why he's so popular (I believe).
@MetalSwitch95 I love how people like you say that when it pertains to someone you support/enjoy, but lash out and rage at those you disagree with for doing the same thing, calling them juvenile or, well, as you've done here, having a "lack of an argument". Cheap laughs are just that...
@WideWorldOfWisdom You missed the point completely. It's him trying to make the videos entertaining. Sure he might go over the top if he's pissed off but even then he's not dedicating a whole video to it, just 25% in your example.
rights are made up and are in fact determined by the collective, if not directly, certainly its an important part of the equation. This isnt a fairy tail.. ppl dont just magically have rights.
rights are not necessarily decided by the collective but they are decided by those in power. Otherwise why aren't human rights present throughout the world? Not everyone agrees. Most people that live by empathy recognize this but empathy is not give, it is learnt. This has proven.
Thunderfoot referring to his eyes and staring at the screen had notthing to do with how he looked. He was merely buggered that HTWW thought he could intimidate through staring, as if just staring will make his points valid. If you bothered watching TF's first vid against HTWW you would know that.
LOL Nice pownage. I don't know if you are an atheist or a Christian as I have never been on your channel before. All I can say is good job exposing thunderf00t as a hypocrite.
@theanswersofnwo3 Fighting fire with fire is not always hypocrisy. I don't think TF has a problem with HTTW primarily because of the things the kid points out; but when you are dealing with a narcissitic, talking-points worm like HTTW, simply pointing out logical and factual flaws in his videos will never be enough. Using humorous ad hominem to reduce some of the air pressure in his head is absolutely necessary.
@jumpoutatree "kid", "narcissitic, talking-points worm". Interesting choice of words, to go along with a ridiculous argument.
"Using humorous ad hominem to reduce some of the air pressure in his head is absolutely necessary."
No, it isn't. And that is why you and Thunderf00t fail. Along with trying to label and denigrate someone you disagree with. I've watch many videos by HTTW, Thunderf00t, and others HTTW debates with. HTTW is consistently a class act above the others.
Although I think HTWW is ignorantly informed and presumptious, that does not make it alright to use ad hominem attacks to debase someone. Such actions lowers Thuderf00t to HTWW's level. Thuderf00t is better than this. Why the cynicism?
This video basically is doing what it criticized Thunderf00t of doing. Instead of addressing actual points (like the disagreement on individual rights alluded to in the first minute), the author tries to poke holes by exposing...what? At worst it establishes that Tf00t is human capable of hypocrisy. Amazing feat. I absolutely agree with @Uberhilarious that his were not ad hominem attacks, but rather some name calling backed up with argument.
Gratuitous verbal abuse or "name-calling" itself is not an argumentum ad hominem or a logical fallacy.[4][5][6][7][8] The fallacy only occurs if personal attacks are employed in the stead of an argument to devalue an argument by attacking the speaker, not personal insults in the middle of an otherwise sound argument or insults that stand alone.
2 b fair to Thunderf00t, he has taken this criticism on board & his latest video's against HTWW are very factual, to the point where HTWW has given up replying & run away with his tail between his legs.
Besides, isn't talking about Thunderf00t's "Post-Partnum depression" a bit of a dirty ad hominem? HTWW is no saint...
@tdp1909 Actually HTWW said he did'nt want to waste any more time with this conflict, and Thunderf00t never gave any factual information. The fact of the matter is Thunderf00t is acting like the "creationists" he despises.
@filter021: I'm sure if he was winning, he'd want to waste more time! Thunderf00t hit upon a truth that HTWW has been using sock accounts to boost his ratings & yet HTWW responds by saying this is 'time wasting'?
It is a serious allegation & yet all he did to retort it was show that *some* of his subscribers weren't sock accounts.
As for creationists, there is this: /watch?v=sg5QPqKeOz8 . Although tf00t isn't perfect, he is far from fudging data & evidence to make a case...
Hey I know a good amount of people that subcribe to his channel so that idea about sock accounts is false. Me personally when I win at something against someone I don't go out of my way to keep hammering home the fact that I'm the victor.
I'd be the first to admit that the majority of his subscribers are real. However, there is convincing evidence that he bought a load of sock accounts as they all subscribed to him on the same day & many of them are dead accounts.
About winning. When you have won clearly & the opposition is reduced to nonsense, then it's best to be magnanimous in victory. However, when the opposition brings up further, convincing evidence, then not addressing it suggests that Tf00t had made a point...
There is no convincing evidence, It's just wishfull thinking on behalf of people very critical of HTWW. Personally I'd like to see proof of sock accounts.
No convincing evidence?? With 5 minutes research, I found:
/watch?v=PqnUBz5sbik
/watch?v=6H5ZzAuV0fk&feature=video_response
& watch?v=sLcVjYU7-Jw
Conveniently many of the sock accounts are now closed & (despite repeated requests) HTWW has failed to disclose his subscribers list to answer such allegations.
Of course, his rivals could be lying about all the accounts that used to exist, but it seems strange that they were all activated @ the same time & were closed once this scandal broke...
Were the 'sock accounts' ever actually traced to HTWW? No.
People like you think themselves 'smarter' and 'more open' because you're following an idiot like Thunderf00t who uses big words and acts like he's an intellectual.
And you go along thinking that you're smarter than all the 'sheeple' that follow HTWW claiming that they should 'open their eyes.'
No my friend, I think you need to start opening your ears for real and use that grey matter that (I hope) you have.
@Darklord12356: The sock accounts weren't traced, but they did benefit him & 5 other connected accounts.
If he had no connection, then why didn't he do a second video saying "I have absolutely no connection with these sock accounts & will drop them until they've been investigated"?
Thunderf00t in his spare time is seemingly a scientist, so I don't think it's just a act. His Creationist debunking vids display a thorough working knowledge of of technical science.
@Darklord12356: As for claiming I'm smarter than the 'sheeple', I have humility enuf to see that there are many cleverer people in this world beside me & the best way to achieve intelligent things is to be open, honest & true.
Thunderf00t has a record of free speech & HTWW keeps many secrets & censors comments. Want an example? Try posting something on their channel walls.
I was tempted to subscribe to HTWW until I realised how many times he mentions 'subscribe' - so much for 'sheeple'...
Gotta love TF cult followers that would defend him no matter what. TF is only right about one thing, religion needs to change or go away, everything else he says is nonsense.
such a nice rational rebuttal...NOT. this is complete lunacy. This is just completely hypocritical of what Thunderf00t was trying to point out. His name calling only happens for about 10% of the video. If you'd had watched it in its entirety, you would understand the content thunderf00t was trying to criticize HTWW.
"2:30 of pure nonsense"? Trust me, bro, HTWW is the King of Pure Nonsense:
/watch?v=oVSHsIb5X9Q
Every single FUCKing vid he makes is unsubstantiated BULL-SHIT. So T-f00t made an opinionated vid. So what? He doesn't make a habit of it, but HTWW on the other hand? Opinionated arguments and general lies/misinformation are ALL he has. He is a proponent of dishonesty, simple as that.
Talk about nothing to do with the argument... you have taken on the appearance and the dressing of the substance - just as thunderf00t said you would - not the substance itself. You are attacking the ethereal. Try going for the POINT and sticking to the factual. Don't waste time complaining about the way the message was delivered when I think you are probably just jealous of not being able to have delivered the message your self. It sounds as if you agree with what has been said otherwise.
how are there unalienable rights when they are broken every second? how can such a statement be posed when it's falsified on it's own right after being pronounced ....
the society agrees on rights which are in it's best interest .....
I dislike Thunderf00t and most of his general type. Quick to call others out, and even quicker to do the same thing. I miss the world of consequences, where people were held to account for the things they said.The Internet allows too many people the status for E-thug, the dispicable type of person to afraid to say what they believe in the real world, cause they're afraid someone like me would, literally or figuratively slap them in the face. Any freedom can be abused, even that of speech
I'm sorry but thunderf00t does just the same with his accent as someone using their physical appearance... I have a friend that uses a British accent just to sound a little more interesting(as stupid as that sounds and i don't like it) he does it all the time. It's the exact same thing he argues... I think almost every American is kind of entranced trying to decipher a different and interesting dialect of English rather than understanding what 'rubbish' is being spewed.
So do you finally understand what makes an ad hominem fallacious? Perhaps you would do well to do a little research on logical fallacies before incorrectly attempting to point them out?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
your an idiot. not only does that corporate right wing moron do mothing but lie and slander all day long but you bitch about thunderf00t attacking the sorry piece of shit
wow, you act like Republicans are the only Politicians that lie. Newsflash dilweed. They all lie. Dumbass. Funny how you call HTWW what you are. WE won't mention the pardons by slick Willie of drug dealers, rapists, etc. What about his infidelity? What a fine example. lol Oh and not to mention Carter's stance as calling anyone who disagrees with the current administration racist. That's a term used by left wing nut jobs when they run out of arugments. Get a job you loser.
yeah no shit MOST politicians lie, its just that republicans rely on lies and half truths to get elected. they prey on gullible baby boomers and moronic religious tards to get votes. just look at the age of the tea partiers, town hall protesters and people at that retarded FCRaction meeting (BTW their overwhelmingly old). haha its the same intelligence of people that watch WWE and buy oxyclean from billy mayes
also nobody agrees with carter that racism is a major issue, but stupidity is
I hate to break it to you but all politicians lie, not most. Also, they all rely on their promises which they have no intent on keeping, to get in. Funny how you called me out for not being compassionate and this is just over the top hypocracy. I haven't watched wrestling in a hot minute and Oxy Clean really works. Funny coming from someone that lives in a state of people who have no idea what a turn signal is.
not being compassionate? dude i'm not obligated by my sky daddy to be compassionate as you are and i have ZERO compassion for deliberately dishonest bitches like HTWW, hell i respect you more than him and your half retarded but at least you try to be honest
yeah oxyclean is great but the point is that the conservative voting power relies on people that buy from infomercials, in 20 years they will have ZERO political power and the republican party will be worth voting for again
This half retard spanks your ass every time with the facts of your fraudulent messiah. I don't buy from infomercials jackass. The Republican party will be voted next year as the Democraps are losing credibility by the hour. They are only interested in their citizens depending on them entirely. If only you liberal scumbags would see that. I gotta hand it to you though. Most liberals block me after one comment and you're still going strong.
furthermore what the fuck are you talking about? i was talking about that sorry little lying piece of shit corporate bitch HTWW not politicians. hell not even libertarians like HTWW, its really only gullible idiots that are eager to have their drowning ideals age into irrelevance
if you want REAL intellectual non-liberals then shanedk is about as smart as you will get. HTWW is nothing more than a lying censoring bitch who got his ass waxed by thunderf00t and liberalviewer
Well as a libertarian I also can't stand HTWW, but the thing is that tf00t doesn't attack HTWW personally, saying that HE (hHTWW) is a moron, but rather attacking all libertarians and saying they are all psycho-loonys. The worst thing is that he is doing it the same way creationists are attacking the atheists. I think you can see how we libertarians can get a bit jumpy. I just wander why Tf00t doesn't attack a guy like shanedk, or confederatesocialist? Well, because they are on equal terms with
you guys come off as anarcho capitalists and conspiracy theorists, you CERTAINLY need better publicists. even shanedk came off as hysterical in a discussion i had with him on regulations and social security. i'm all about smarter gov and support much of the libertarian platform, but i say that if libertarian capitalism can work for everydody then so can a mixed market with smarter regulations. we are just figuring out how to govern so many people effectively and theres still kinks to work out
Well I totally agree with you! We need better PR, thats obvious, but we also have merit in our words. Actually I am libertarian, because I do not think we are ready for anarcho capitalism yet. Probably in a few hundred years maybe we can do it, but not in the near future. A limited government is good for the time being, perhaps even better. But unfortunately this can only work with libertarian capitalism, because the moment you give some power to the state you are Fucked and yes with capital "F"
Why? Because the state tends to abuse any power you give to it. This is the main reason we have the constitution, because someone should limit the power of the government.
I allays wander why you people see the problem but always look for the wrong solution? Government regulation is the problem, you can not fix it by simply make it "smarter", whatever that means. It is like seeing building on fire and saying
"the state tends to abuse any power you give to it"
and so do our corporate daddies, its the same arguement just a different overlord. you gotta have a SMART and strong elected state to protect the interests of society. like i said, the art of governing and protecting billions of people is very young, and it'll take a lil while to work out the kinks to make it work better
whoever controls the money controls the info, and whoever controls the info controls the world
"Well, jeez, look at that! this building is on fire. I think the problem is in the flames, we should make better flames that don't burn buildings." And besides I don't see any reason for regulations whatsoever. Why would any government enact them? What are you going to achieve thru them?
But this was about Tf00t and why do we have quarrel with him. Well as I said, not all of us libertarians are kooky, not all of us believe in conspiracy theories, and most of us agree that some form of social
eh he didn't lump ALL libertarians together, he specifically refered to hardcore libertarians and even showed video from the "crumpet stuffing redcoat" hating guy
what is acheived through regulations? goddamn dude study a lil history of manufacturing labor laws and it'll be painfully obvious, or just look to china.
OSHA, FDA, EPA, and other agencies are certainly NOT perfect and seriously need to be updated (ceopt OSHA) but they serve as an important safeguard for the society
order is needed in order for humanity to exist. We do not take it lightly when some progressive hack comes from the middle of nowhere and starts making stupid remarks with a condescending tone. Not to mention anything else, it is retarded and soon the forces of free market capitalism will show Tf00t that this time he piked the wrong crowd to play with. Think of it like he is Tony Romo, great against your average team, but he totally suck when he goes against the pros...
I remember watching this go down a few months back and I thought that TF00t would really kill HTWW. But I was surprised to see that HTWW is quite capable of defending his points and taking the fight to TF00t. He came right into HTWW's wheelhouse and got beat up pretty badly by a superior argument.
I think your right, thunderfoot is frustrated and that is why he makes the comments that he dose in his videos. i also think that is not for the reasons you think. It is not because he dose not have the facts to disprove what whotheworldwork is saying, in fact he has lots of intelligent arguments. his frustration seems to me to stems for the fact that he actually has to debunk it in the first place, over and over again. I would be, that way I don't bother.I just make snide text comments :P
about your business dumping in the stream example: If the stream is concidered "public property" then it is cleaned at the expense of all taxpayers. This gives incentive to business owners to pollute it because they do not pay all of the cost of cleaning it up. If however the stream was privatized, or at least not cleaned at the taxpayer's expense, no business in their rightful mind would pollute it because it will drive their property value through the floor, and kill their business.
That could work as well, and it would be concidered constitutional because they are technically dumping into the government's property. But I think my model works better, because with the fine model you need to spend extra $ on enforcing these fines, and government officials can always be paid to look the other way. Again, taxpayers will all pay for this.
The attacks used by thunderf00t are NOT ad hominem. Having seen the video myself its clear that the insults are just insults, not to be taken as any part of the actual argument.
Anyone who claims it to be ad hominem to point out that something is wrong, such as the Earth spinning backwards, is a moron.
And whilst there is, I would agree, no need to insult HTWW's staring, the insults were not to be taken as argument, more of an insulting pet name like "PCS" was.
You're wrong. I watched the video too, and the "captain staresalot" insult just as an example was a follow up to thunderf00t saying how HTWW staring into the camera with conviction is a sign of HTWW's lack of knowledge on the subject, and trying to make up for it by appearing confident. He then throws a rather large number of insults at HTWW throughout the video, this is an ad hominem tactic defined. Good video Busta
The staring was an accusation of reading something, not a lack of knowledge. The world spinning backwards was thunderf00ts indication of a lack of knowledge.
Also, insults =/= ad hominem. If you believe that then you are wrong. They were insults, not ad hominem. Please, lrn2 fallacy.
First of all you cannot determine whether a planet is spinning "backwards" when the shot is from space. Thunderf00t made that commnet under the assumption that the picture was of the earth with the north pole at the top, but while looking at it from space the earth can easily appear with the north pole at the bottom depending on what angle you are looking at it from. Furthermore, the ad-hominem attacks were not even the meat of this video. Thunderf00t's ignorant socialism was.
OK, we know the poles flip, so your concept of North = up, South = down is a fail from the start. Next, when all images show the (current) North pole at the top, what makes HTWW so special? Futhermore, HTWW admitted the world was spinning backwards.
Next, there was *under 15 seconds* of insults in ~10 mins of video. They weren't ad hominem because they have nothing to do with his argument anyway. (Which is ~0.025%)
And what has being socialist got to do with thunderf00t's argument anyway? You're just upset that there are people who do not put profit before the interests of people and the planet.
The meat of thunderf00t's videos is proving HTWW wrong on things via science, as thunderf00t does.
0:53 is when you can see the picture of the earth Freeze. It is not discernable from this picture whether the earth is flipped or not, so thunderf00t's argument is flawed
As for thunderf00t not being pro-socialism? thunderf00t clearly shows his formula on the video as the following: good of society > private profit. According to this model it is okay to strip a millionaire family from it's wealth and leave them starving for the sake of feeding 10,000 hungry people. Worked for Russia! Not
OK, firstly we're talking about a moving image, not a single picture. Stop being such a moron. If we see the Earth we assume North is up. If we see the Earth spinning we also assume North is up.
HTWW ADMITTED IT WAS WRONG. Your point is invalid. Its like defending a toy thats being recalled for being unsafe for use by saying its safe for use.
I didn't say thunderf00t wasn't pro-socialism. I said what has it to do with the argument?
As for your straw man argument, thunderf00t suggested that what is good is not always profitable. Also, what the fuck do you think taxes are? Why do you think the more income you have the higher tax you pay? You compare socialism with communism, the extremist view. Putting the environment before profit is NOT the same as stealing from a rich family, just like putting profit before the environment is not the same as paying companies to pump companies into streams to destroy ther environment.
I said that "good of society > private profit" -thunderf00t was the very model that was used to justify what happened in Russia. That was what I said quite literally, your own "straw man argument" was that I said socialism and communism were the same. I didn't say that, I said that thunderf00t's model justifies communism to the letter, (which may actually suggest that conceptually speaking there isn't much of a gap between socialism and communism).
I am not making an argument agains the rule of law, only against government intervension in trade. If you kill your friend you yourself will be dealt with by retaliatory force, as any society must do if it wishes to avoid extinction. This is such a common argument against free market capitalist proponents that my head frankly hurts. And you say you make no straw man argument, while suggesting that I am supporting lawful murder, or murder for profit? I believe in trade, not killing people
I said that in retaliation to your own straw man argument. My point was that saying socialist ideas justifies communism was the same as that. It was not an argument against capatilism. Learn to read.
My main problem with thunderf00t is his socialism. I thought this video here does show some hypocricy on his part however, because he warns viewers not to fall for attacks based on appearance or profit motive, then does pretty much the same thing. Let's just say I don't care about this stuff too much, I have a problem with him knocking on free market capitalism without understanding it.
He says he refuses to appear in his videos for fear of appearance based attacks and doesn't ask for money for fear of being accused of just wanting to make money. Thats not hypocritical, thats sticking to your beliefs.
I think thunderf00t understands free market capatilism. He simply disagrees with putting profit before people.
Let's say I own a business. If I have to put "people before profit" where do you draw the line? what's to stop the people ( my employees) from demanding that I raise wages. What obligation do I have to offer them anything? If I make an offer to pay something they are free to either accept it or not. They may say "your offer doesn't suit me I will go across the street and work for the other guy". Competition sets prices, and wages. give example of putting people above profit please
An example of where it is better to put people before profit?
Lets say I own a factory. I have a load of chemicals produced in my factory that are poisonous, so, because the free market reigns, I dump them in a stream. This stream goes to a town, filters into peoples diets through fish, or suchlike, and everyone dies. Putting people before profit does not entail giving people everything they want.
I will add that I personally don't think that putting fiscal gain above the quality of your own business or community even, is worthwhile. Example: Home Depot underhiring for the purpose of taking in a bigger profit at the expense of the quality of their work. This is not a good policy I think, and it will kill them in the long run. At the same time I don't think that anybody has an obligation to do anything for anyone else. No government may force a business to give benefits for example
No government can force a business to give benifits, but they can't not force people to stop damaging the environment etc, which will eventually lead to deaths?
There is currently a bill in the senate proposing specifically this law. They want to make it illegal to hire anybody unless you are providing health insurance. It's called the kennedy bill, and a lot of people think it's a swell idea /sigh. This is because the model "good of society > private profit" and right of entrepreneur not being concidered important by so many, this is a dangerous force in our culture. As for the environment, continued....
Providing health insurance is bad? For the common worker, which is the majority of the population, this is a good thing. Your putting the desires of the few before the desires of the many.
Ah alas the your real beliefs emmerge. Okay let's concider this: You want to make it mandatory for every business owner to pay for medical insurance. Do you have any clue how many businesses will go out of business? over 2,000,000 have already left this country in the last 2 years because of increasing restrictions. Do you think the common worker will profit as a result of this? I am a common worker myself, and I know that for my own sake I want business owners to decide what they pay/offer
I believe the government should give free health insurance, as they do here in England. As someone who has grown up with that I know the utility of it.
Also, companies in the UK all offer pention schemes, I'm not sure of the state in the US, but this isn't a drain on the companies profit, so why would health insurance?
There are pention schemes here as well from private companies. Remember, "free" health insurance is not really free /winkwink. We all pay for it, even those who do not use it. Please watch: watch?v=irsEVye45Jg&feature=channel_page
for an explanation given by a professional economist of why "free" health care hurts business, and subsequently us all.
Also, forgive me if I get carried away, you seem fairly intelligent and I do not mean to offend you, but I am passionate about this topic.
rights that cannot be taken away? are you fucking serious? more than half of this planet's population is living without any of the rights that "can not be taken away" right now, alot more than half actually. u know why? because the collective/government in those parts of the world doesnt recognise those rights!
cheekbeard the pirate is stupid in commy and socialist states you run into forced labor and even more CONTROLLED pay and more and at least potential forced labor
I tried to post this on How The World Works channel but he blocked me. hmmm. Here it is :::: I nocited that my comment was removed regarding whether or not HTWW was a jewish zionist. First off, I thought he didn't REMOVE ANY comments. I didn't even 1 star the video. Also, I wonder if he understands how one's ideology will always "COLOR" a debate. This is true for everyone. CONTD
In terms of the actual debate itself it is irrelevant. By this I mean you may not be able to discern one's ideology(belief system) by the debate itself. What needs to be understood is that what is CHOSEN to be debated will be a direct reflection of one's ideology as will the words that come out of one's mouth. This is basic psychology 101. CONT'D
Now this is null and void only if one is able to free themselves from beliefs themselves. Remember, you do not have to believe in something in order to debate it. In fact, having a belief in something is a direct impediment to an OBJECTIVE debate. Now this is no easy task but surely one that should be discussed. There is a book that came out around 2000 called The Power of Now that lends a good understanding to this topic.
It might not be an exact detraction from an argument by attempting to discredit the arguer by attacking their character... But you can't tell me that calling someone some stupid name distracts the viewers from the argument, it also gives the trolls a lot of ammunition.
I've seen both Thunderf00t's and HTWW's videos. He spend about 2 minutes making personal attacks, and then the rest of his points are obliterated on multiple occasions by not just HTWW but two other you tube users. Neither of which TF has responded to, and he's had over a month. It's not as if HTWW and others haven't addressed the points already.
TF never should have made those things an issue in the first place if he didn't want to make an issue of it.
I've seen this and the HTWW ones and all they did was basically just engage in "tu quoque" accusations. These are basically fallacies which pretend to discredit the person by saying "you're just as bad what you're accusing me of being", without actually tackling the actual arguments. It's pretty weak and I don't even like Thunderf00t. I find his battles with creationists to be rather pointless and his swine flu videos grievously uninformed. But he's a better person than these two.
Crying foul over 'ad hominems' - especially when the person doesn't know what ad hominem is - is a tactic of avoiding following through with the argumentation. It's just a way of saying "you insulted me and therefore you're no good". Insults are actually often bang on - even Shakespeare himself said that idiots are "full of sound and fury". Thunderf00t is 100% correct about HTWW and same holds true here - one detracts from the real arguments and instead cherry-picks the bits to obscure logic.
That's some pretty selective quote mining you did there... thunderf00t doesn't have to insult, there you might have a point, but you are taking it out of context which is not a great way to make a point. To be honest, when someone spouts as much bullshit as HTWW and does it with such conviction, then even going so far as to boldly proclaim his superior "league," even I get truly irritated and I'm not a part of the argument. There's an extra sting when someone is both condescending AND stupid.
right on. methinks tfoot loves the fact that he sounds like a more masculine version of Dawkins, but what comes out his mouth is mostly the same kind of annoying stuff --- sticky marshmallow fluff & peanut butter (those of u who've had a pb & fluff sandwich know about the annoying STICKY). Ok, really bad analogy, but it's pretty late & haven't slept in two nights. you get the point... I'd rather listen to htwworks anyday :0P
Well said mister busta, well said. Thunderf00t did himself absolutely no favours and in my mind he's just a pathetic hypocritic. He's a loser who's used to have people just believe everything he says without challenging him and when somebody did he tried to poisoning the well. He's a dick.
great vid! most of the people who support tfoot and tma are very young and havent had a real job on which they pay real taxes or havent been educated past high school.. thanks for your defense of somebody you don't necessarily agree with!
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I'm so glad that you totally missed the point of what you call attacks. That video was about credibility, presenting arguments and seeing things for what they really are.
The names he used to reference HTWW, are quite nice compared to what most people call him. Not to mention that you took all of those audio segments out of context. He can call him anything he wants to! I can call you anything I want to!! You can call me anything You want to!! You Ass plug cock-knocking mutha fucka!! ; )
So wait capitalsm had nothing to do with black slavery. And I'm assuming no one including companies made money off the backs of these slaves then is that what you're saying? I would really like your explaination
Question: were you replying to me with this comment on the matter of capitalism making a profit from slavery? Because I was got you comment emailed to me?
Capitalism is based on private ownership of the means of production. Trade of those means can only occur when both parties consent.
Slavery does not involve the consent of the slave, it is merely state sanctioned redistribution of the slave's labour to the slave "owner". It therefore, cannot be capitalist, by definition,
Oh, and the world spinning backwards DOES have relevence, as TF rightly pointed out. HTWW made a defence of his dodgy earth spinning bungle, that illustrated an unnerving failure of deduction. All he had to do was reverse it. Shouldn't the all conquering intellect have made that deduction?
This is a poorly contrived address of the Thunderf00t situation. TF himself has address this very video, and made intricate mince from it. TF uses "nicknames" to refer to people, much the same way that HTWW calls Amazign Atheist "Deep Thinker" and TF "The Expert" (curious that you didn't mention that), but it doesn't mean that it's all ad hominem. HTWW does act like a money grubbing whore, that's a DESCRIPTION of his conduct, directly linked to motive.
He does use put down and insults, but he also uses facts, logic and reason. it is only an adhominum attack when people use nothing but discreditation to make their point.
The points about the world spinning backwards and the staring are discussed first, and then ridiculed. That's not ad hominem. That's reducto ad absurdum.
Rights aren't decided by the collective, they are enforced by the collective. Without the concensus from the collective they won't exist in reality, only in theory will they exist. You were right about ad hominem attacks mostly.
The irony behind someone with the name howtheworldworks spinning the "world" the wrong way somehow escapes you? I think it's poetic justice. Furthermore it's interesting that you claim tf isn't evidencing the "errors in the message."
Which one did he not? I saw the vid and he countered them. Yes he peppered them with insults. But they were clever. Maybe you don't recognize the entertainment value in that. Perhaps your staid demeaner isn't worth watching.
I have real problem with people who think the market or capitalism are the solution to everything however you were right on with the criticism of thunderfoot here on the bullshit. I also agree with you point about the rights, so would most legal experts. That's why they are called rights.
Also, nothing of what thunderf00t said could be an ad hominem attack because it was never used as a substitute for an actual argument. Last time I checked, "instead of" and "in addition to" mean two entirely different things.
Thunderf00t attacked and questioned the motives of HTWW IN ADDITION TO addressing his specific arguments.
Just because Tf00t doesn't take money because he doesn't want to appear to have a conflict of interest DOES NOT mean that it is hypocritical for accusing this of others. Yes, he knows that it is possible to take money and have it misinterpreted, but he also knows that the potential for there to be a legitimate conflict of interest IS REAL. It is not enough evidence to condemn HTWW on its own, but it is enough to raise suspicion.
In science, especially in the medical sciences, the exact same practice is followed. This is also very true in the legal profession. You avoid having what could be perceived as a conflict of interest, even if it is entirely benign, in order to reinforced credibility. At the same time, you point out the conflicts of interest in peers, even though you don't know that such conflicts matter. This is the process that ensures credibility, and is invaluable to the medical and legal professions.
Your point at 4:15 is a contradiction. These rights may be self evident to us looking at the world through our own cultural lens, but to say that 'the collective' recognizes rights to be above the say-so of the collective is circular logic. It's possible to imagine situations where a man alone without a peer to say otherwise, would not have each of these rights, which disproves the idea that they are somehow universal.
Kajintoz 1 month ago
I have to agree with TF in that only other people (the collective) can care about your rights.
Bears don't care, vocanoes don't care, gravity doesn't care, the sun doesn't care ..............................................
cartoeratos 2 months ago
what ? TF is anti profit ..really ..on YT or in general ? wait TF are you saying that HTWW does not even believe what he himself says , how could you possibly know what he believes ?
woodenmajor 4 months ago
dude, I'm really proud of you... God Bless the American freedom...
paulstroie 6 months ago
Waow!...good stuff...
Drebln893 8 months ago
Thunderf00t is a twat.
Tsicar 9 months ago
Ad hominem isn't just insulting someone, it's disregarding someone's whole argument just because of one irrelevant thing. Thunderf00t never once says that these insults against HowTheWorldWorks are grounds to ignore his entire argument. In fact, a good deal of the video is spent refuting said argument. If it was an ad hominem, he would have just insulted HTWW a bit and moved on with his day.
YoshiTheBlue 1 year ago
Calling out everyone for their errors is absolutely necessary. I've always felt a little sad when he has used derogatory remarks like those, despite my sympathy with him against people whom I consider to be truly bigoted and intentionally misleading such as Ben Stein, VenomFangX, etc. The reason that arguments from science have such an advantage over those from pseudoscience is that the facts speak for themselves, and anything more than that is unnecessary and perhaps self-defeating.
GuitarNoob101 1 year ago
Thunderf00t does stick to the facts!! I can find anything factually wrong with what he is saying!! U just pissed off cos ur a delusional god lover!!!
ralphs2jz 1 year ago
@ralphs2jz Listen to the arguments. He is basically saying why would Thunderfoot keep attacking and spamming him without addressing the issues.
JamesRideout123 8 months ago
Howtheworldworks' name should mean he should know which fucking way the world spins.
If he can't get something as simple as that correct, how the fuck are any of his vids supposed to be taken seriously, or his ideas?
Tf00t>you, at least he knows which way the world spins.
66gt40lm 1 year ago
@66gt40lm LOL, did you actually watch the video? You probably should have. He mentions something about attacking things like looks and logos instead of arguments... ;-)
goodtrygg 1 year ago
Although I don't like it much, I've come to understand that it's impossible to engage with these YR propagandists without retaliating in a bit of ad hominem. I mean, why the hell not; they pour it on in massive doses. I've watched enough TF videos to know that the man has ample knowledge to back up most of what he says, I just think that it falls on deaf ears if he doesn't take the piss out of some people first, and if HTTW doesn't deserve it, nobody does.
jumpoutatree 1 year ago
While ad hominem attacks may be in bad taste, they are not necessarily fallacious. Thus it does not imply that the point raised by the attack is moot... i.e., this guy still may be a thick, money-grubbing, attention whore and therefore we should be skeptical of the content extolled on his platform.
greenManilishi 1 year ago
@greenManilishi "this guy still may be a thick, money-grubbing, attention whore". That tells me right away that you are unreasonable. Don't spew slander if you can't back it up. Feel free to try. Money-grubbing? News flash, half the youtube channels out there have ads. Some people need to (or like to) make a living. In this case, it is irrelevant to the validity of his arguments anyway. Attention whore? Because he's on youtube? Him, Thunderf00t and millions of others. You'd best get over it.
goodtrygg 1 year ago
The mans name is Thunderfoot ? Maybe he's the guy living above me.
eldorado61guy 1 year ago 2
So basically Tf00t is afraid that someone else may use his own underhanded tactics against him. That's hilarious.
elsquibbs 1 year ago
notice all the thunderf00t drones disliking this video. and as for all of thunderf00t's insults on howtheworldworks' appearance,... nobody as ugly as thunderf00t should ever attack someone else's appearance.
bokros 1 year ago
@bokros ...right on....something i did find out too is that most of these atheists channels have subscribers that does not exists or are mirrors from other users,i think i can prove in a court of law that 90% of the views,ratings and comments in most of the atheists channels comes from few users under diffrent channels.That really bothers me since from 2000 subscribers 1500 don't have pictures or videos or are a mirror from a christian user.People should look into that.
breedofthe45 1 year ago
Thunderfoot is what is referred to as an educated idiot.
spliffsperlunk 1 year ago
why the hell doesn't he shave his cheek beards?
junior00bacon00chee 1 year ago
@junior00bacon00chee Fucking love junior bacon cheeseburgers.
jumpoutatree 1 year ago
Insulting someone does not constitute an ad hom. In every example you use, he's ADDRESSING HTWW as an idiot. His argument was not "You're wrong because you stare a lot." His argument was "You're wrong because of this, this, and this, AND you're an idiot who stares a lot and begs for subcribers."
SolidSnakeRules 1 year ago
At least Thunderf00t's ad hominems are in a sense of humour; rather than to make up for the lack of an argument they gently assist the argument with an occasional cheap laugh. It adds a twist of entertainment into an otherwise deadly serious video. That's why he's so popular (I believe).
MetalSwitch95 1 year ago 2
@MetalSwitch95 I love how people like you say that when it pertains to someone you support/enjoy, but lash out and rage at those you disagree with for doing the same thing, calling them juvenile or, well, as you've done here, having a "lack of an argument". Cheap laughs are just that...
goodtrygg 1 year ago
@MetalSwitch95
He spent at least 2.5 minutes of a 10 minute video spouting ad hominems. That's some real dedication to "humor".
WideWorldOfWisdom 10 months ago
@WideWorldOfWisdom You missed the point completely. It's him trying to make the videos entertaining. Sure he might go over the top if he's pissed off but even then he's not dedicating a whole video to it, just 25% in your example.
MetalSwitch95 9 months ago
@MetalSwitch95
You know, you're right...it is kind of entertaining to see him do exactly the things he tries to prevent others from doing to him.
WideWorldOfWisdom 9 months ago
rights are made up and are in fact determined by the collective, if not directly, certainly its an important part of the equation. This isnt a fairy tail.. ppl dont just magically have rights.
ultimategoobah 1 year ago
@ultimategoobah Uh, yes they do. It's called "Natural Rights."
CaptainVideo890 1 year ago
rights are not necessarily decided by the collective but they are decided by those in power. Otherwise why aren't human rights present throughout the world? Not everyone agrees. Most people that live by empathy recognize this but empathy is not give, it is learnt. This has proven.
2Jax 1 year ago
Great video. I respect people like you because you dare to challenge these liberal/intellectuals who basically reek in their own hypocrosy.
NihilistGeographic4 1 year ago
Thunderfoot referring to his eyes and staring at the screen had notthing to do with how he looked. He was merely buggered that HTWW thought he could intimidate through staring, as if just staring will make his points valid. If you bothered watching TF's first vid against HTWW you would know that.
Angelsdawn 2 years ago
LOL Nice pownage. I don't know if you are an atheist or a Christian as I have never been on your channel before. All I can say is good job exposing thunderf00t as a hypocrite.
theanswersofnwo3 2 years ago 19
@theanswersofnwo3 Fighting fire with fire is not always hypocrisy. I don't think TF has a problem with HTTW primarily because of the things the kid points out; but when you are dealing with a narcissitic, talking-points worm like HTTW, simply pointing out logical and factual flaws in his videos will never be enough. Using humorous ad hominem to reduce some of the air pressure in his head is absolutely necessary.
jumpoutatree 1 year ago
@jumpoutatree "kid", "narcissitic, talking-points worm". Interesting choice of words, to go along with a ridiculous argument.
"Using humorous ad hominem to reduce some of the air pressure in his head is absolutely necessary."
No, it isn't. And that is why you and Thunderf00t fail. Along with trying to label and denigrate someone you disagree with. I've watch many videos by HTTW, Thunderf00t, and others HTTW debates with. HTTW is consistently a class act above the others.
goodtrygg 1 year ago
Although I think HTWW is ignorantly informed and presumptious, that does not make it alright to use ad hominem attacks to debase someone. Such actions lowers Thuderf00t to HTWW's level. Thuderf00t is better than this. Why the cynicism?
hippo11222 2 years ago
Thunderf00t is a dogmatic Utilitarian Consequentialist. That's why.
FlowCell 2 years ago
Sorry, but you fail TWICE:
First, HTWW first talked about how YouTubers can generate $250,000 by making videos, and he wanted to see if that's true. He's a money-loving whore.
Second, your rights bullshit is stupid. Rights are either decided by either a god or socieity. "Above the rights of the majority"? What about slavery?
abaddon5 2 years ago
This video basically is doing what it criticized Thunderf00t of doing. Instead of addressing actual points (like the disagreement on individual rights alluded to in the first minute), the author tries to poke holes by exposing...what? At worst it establishes that Tf00t is human capable of hypocrisy. Amazing feat. I absolutely agree with @Uberhilarious that his were not ad hominem attacks, but rather some name calling backed up with argument.
landfillpoet 2 years ago
Idiot. He's not using ad hominem attacks..
(From the pages of wikipedia)
Common misconceptions about ad hominem
Gratuitous verbal abuse or "name-calling" itself is not an argumentum ad hominem or a logical fallacy.[4][5][6][7][8] The fallacy only occurs if personal attacks are employed in the stead of an argument to devalue an argument by attacking the speaker, not personal insults in the middle of an otherwise sound argument or insults that stand alone.
Uberhilarious 2 years ago 2
Thunderf00t is a t00l.....
marklross2 2 years ago
2 b fair to Thunderf00t, he has taken this criticism on board & his latest video's against HTWW are very factual, to the point where HTWW has given up replying & run away with his tail between his legs.
Besides, isn't talking about Thunderf00t's "Post-Partnum depression" a bit of a dirty ad hominem? HTWW is no saint...
tdp1909 2 years ago
@tdp1909 Actually HTWW said he did'nt want to waste any more time with this conflict, and Thunderf00t never gave any factual information. The fact of the matter is Thunderf00t is acting like the "creationists" he despises.
filter021 2 years ago
@filter021: I'm sure if he was winning, he'd want to waste more time! Thunderf00t hit upon a truth that HTWW has been using sock accounts to boost his ratings & yet HTWW responds by saying this is 'time wasting'?
It is a serious allegation & yet all he did to retort it was show that *some* of his subscribers weren't sock accounts.
As for creationists, there is this: /watch?v=sg5QPqKeOz8 . Although tf00t isn't perfect, he is far from fudging data & evidence to make a case...
tdp1909 2 years ago
Hey I know a good amount of people that subcribe to his channel so that idea about sock accounts is false. Me personally when I win at something against someone I don't go out of my way to keep hammering home the fact that I'm the victor.
filter021 2 years ago
I'd be the first to admit that the majority of his subscribers are real. However, there is convincing evidence that he bought a load of sock accounts as they all subscribed to him on the same day & many of them are dead accounts.
About winning. When you have won clearly & the opposition is reduced to nonsense, then it's best to be magnanimous in victory. However, when the opposition brings up further, convincing evidence, then not addressing it suggests that Tf00t had made a point...
tdp1909 2 years ago
There is no convincing evidence, It's just wishfull thinking on behalf of people very critical of HTWW. Personally I'd like to see proof of sock accounts.
filter021 2 years ago 3
No convincing evidence?? With 5 minutes research, I found:
/watch?v=PqnUBz5sbik
/watch?v=6H5ZzAuV0fk&feature=video_response
& watch?v=sLcVjYU7-Jw
Conveniently many of the sock accounts are now closed & (despite repeated requests) HTWW has failed to disclose his subscribers list to answer such allegations.
Of course, his rivals could be lying about all the accounts that used to exist, but it seems strange that they were all activated @ the same time & were closed once this scandal broke...
tdp1909 2 years ago
@tdp1909
Were the 'sock accounts' ever actually traced to HTWW? No.
People like you think themselves 'smarter' and 'more open' because you're following an idiot like Thunderf00t who uses big words and acts like he's an intellectual.
And you go along thinking that you're smarter than all the 'sheeple' that follow HTWW claiming that they should 'open their eyes.'
No my friend, I think you need to start opening your ears for real and use that grey matter that (I hope) you have.
Darklord12356 2 years ago
@Darklord12356: The sock accounts weren't traced, but they did benefit him & 5 other connected accounts.
If he had no connection, then why didn't he do a second video saying "I have absolutely no connection with these sock accounts & will drop them until they've been investigated"?
Thunderf00t in his spare time is seemingly a scientist, so I don't think it's just a act. His Creationist debunking vids display a thorough working knowledge of of technical science.
That said, he ain't perfect.
tdp1909 2 years ago
@tdp1909 I daresay that Thunderf00t is a scientist by trade, and makes videos for YouTube in his spare time ;)
BlitzerkidSix 1 year ago
@Darklord12356: As for claiming I'm smarter than the 'sheeple', I have humility enuf to see that there are many cleverer people in this world beside me & the best way to achieve intelligent things is to be open, honest & true.
Thunderf00t has a record of free speech & HTWW keeps many secrets & censors comments. Want an example? Try posting something on their channel walls.
I was tempted to subscribe to HTWW until I realised how many times he mentions 'subscribe' - so much for 'sheeple'...
tdp1909 2 years ago
Rights above any say so of the collective.
Text presents: among these are life.
Says the man from the country of the death penalty.
hoerenj0ng 2 years ago
People actually consider Thunderf00t an intellectual for debunking creationism.
Newsflash: If you win an argument against a person with Downs Syndrome, you are not a genius!
TheRingil 2 years ago
Gotta love TF cult followers that would defend him no matter what. TF is only right about one thing, religion needs to change or go away, everything else he says is nonsense.
Darkgravx12 2 years ago
This video = OWNAGE, good job.
bootsielon 2 years ago 2
MisterBusta,
such a nice rational rebuttal...NOT. this is complete lunacy. This is just completely hypocritical of what Thunderf00t was trying to point out. His name calling only happens for about 10% of the video. If you'd had watched it in its entirety, you would understand the content thunderf00t was trying to criticize HTWW.
Thanks and cheers ;)
king mike
bubbamickmac 2 years ago
"2:30 of pure nonsense"? Trust me, bro, HTWW is the King of Pure Nonsense:
/watch?v=oVSHsIb5X9Q
Every single FUCKing vid he makes is unsubstantiated BULL-SHIT. So T-f00t made an opinionated vid. So what? He doesn't make a habit of it, but HTWW on the other hand? Opinionated arguments and general lies/misinformation are ALL he has. He is a proponent of dishonesty, simple as that.
338dmac 2 years ago
Talk about nothing to do with the argument... you have taken on the appearance and the dressing of the substance - just as thunderf00t said you would - not the substance itself. You are attacking the ethereal. Try going for the POINT and sticking to the factual. Don't waste time complaining about the way the message was delivered when I think you are probably just jealous of not being able to have delivered the message your self. It sounds as if you agree with what has been said otherwise.
Candyliz2003 2 years ago
how are there unalienable rights when they are broken every second? how can such a statement be posed when it's falsified on it's own right after being pronounced ....
the society agrees on rights which are in it's best interest .....
symelian 2 years ago
I dislike Thunderf00t and most of his general type. Quick to call others out, and even quicker to do the same thing. I miss the world of consequences, where people were held to account for the things they said.The Internet allows too many people the status for E-thug, the dispicable type of person to afraid to say what they believe in the real world, cause they're afraid someone like me would, literally or figuratively slap them in the face. Any freedom can be abused, even that of speech
TheAtomicSkull 2 years ago
I'm sorry but thunderf00t does just the same with his accent as someone using their physical appearance... I have a friend that uses a British accent just to sound a little more interesting(as stupid as that sounds and i don't like it) he does it all the time. It's the exact same thing he argues... I think almost every American is kind of entranced trying to decipher a different and interesting dialect of English rather than understanding what 'rubbish' is being spewed.
DimitriNakos 2 years ago
So do you finally understand what makes an ad hominem fallacious? Perhaps you would do well to do a little research on logical fallacies before incorrectly attempting to point them out?
Wyglyph 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
your an idiot. not only does that corporate right wing moron do mothing but lie and slander all day long but you bitch about thunderf00t attacking the sorry piece of shit
theeyeisblind 2 years ago
wow, you act like Republicans are the only Politicians that lie. Newsflash dilweed. They all lie. Dumbass. Funny how you call HTWW what you are. WE won't mention the pardons by slick Willie of drug dealers, rapists, etc. What about his infidelity? What a fine example. lol Oh and not to mention Carter's stance as calling anyone who disagrees with the current administration racist. That's a term used by left wing nut jobs when they run out of arugments. Get a job you loser.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
yeah no shit MOST politicians lie, its just that republicans rely on lies and half truths to get elected. they prey on gullible baby boomers and moronic religious tards to get votes. just look at the age of the tea partiers, town hall protesters and people at that retarded FCRaction meeting (BTW their overwhelmingly old). haha its the same intelligence of people that watch WWE and buy oxyclean from billy mayes
also nobody agrees with carter that racism is a major issue, but stupidity is
theeyeisblind 2 years ago 2
I hate to break it to you but all politicians lie, not most. Also, they all rely on their promises which they have no intent on keeping, to get in. Funny how you called me out for not being compassionate and this is just over the top hypocracy. I haven't watched wrestling in a hot minute and Oxy Clean really works. Funny coming from someone that lives in a state of people who have no idea what a turn signal is.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
not being compassionate? dude i'm not obligated by my sky daddy to be compassionate as you are and i have ZERO compassion for deliberately dishonest bitches like HTWW, hell i respect you more than him and your half retarded but at least you try to be honest
yeah oxyclean is great but the point is that the conservative voting power relies on people that buy from infomercials, in 20 years they will have ZERO political power and the republican party will be worth voting for again
theeyeisblind 2 years ago
This half retard spanks your ass every time with the facts of your fraudulent messiah. I don't buy from infomercials jackass. The Republican party will be voted next year as the Democraps are losing credibility by the hour. They are only interested in their citizens depending on them entirely. If only you liberal scumbags would see that. I gotta hand it to you though. Most liberals block me after one comment and you're still going strong.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
furthermore what the fuck are you talking about? i was talking about that sorry little lying piece of shit corporate bitch HTWW not politicians. hell not even libertarians like HTWW, its really only gullible idiots that are eager to have their drowning ideals age into irrelevance
if you want REAL intellectual non-liberals then shanedk is about as smart as you will get. HTWW is nothing more than a lying censoring bitch who got his ass waxed by thunderf00t and liberalviewer
theeyeisblind 2 years ago 3
Well as a libertarian I also can't stand HTWW, but the thing is that tf00t doesn't attack HTWW personally, saying that HE (hHTWW) is a moron, but rather attacking all libertarians and saying they are all psycho-loonys. The worst thing is that he is doing it the same way creationists are attacking the atheists. I think you can see how we libertarians can get a bit jumpy. I just wander why Tf00t doesn't attack a guy like shanedk, or confederatesocialist? Well, because they are on equal terms with
DaniOcean 2 years ago
you guys come off as anarcho capitalists and conspiracy theorists, you CERTAINLY need better publicists. even shanedk came off as hysterical in a discussion i had with him on regulations and social security. i'm all about smarter gov and support much of the libertarian platform, but i say that if libertarian capitalism can work for everydody then so can a mixed market with smarter regulations. we are just figuring out how to govern so many people effectively and theres still kinks to work out
theeyeisblind 2 years ago
You obviously voted for the wrong people if you want smart government.
jeremyoyer 2 years ago
Well I totally agree with you! We need better PR, thats obvious, but we also have merit in our words. Actually I am libertarian, because I do not think we are ready for anarcho capitalism yet. Probably in a few hundred years maybe we can do it, but not in the near future. A limited government is good for the time being, perhaps even better. But unfortunately this can only work with libertarian capitalism, because the moment you give some power to the state you are Fucked and yes with capital "F"
DaniOcean 2 years ago
Why? Because the state tends to abuse any power you give to it. This is the main reason we have the constitution, because someone should limit the power of the government.
I allays wander why you people see the problem but always look for the wrong solution? Government regulation is the problem, you can not fix it by simply make it "smarter", whatever that means. It is like seeing building on fire and saying
DaniOcean 2 years ago
"the state tends to abuse any power you give to it"
and so do our corporate daddies, its the same arguement just a different overlord. you gotta have a SMART and strong elected state to protect the interests of society. like i said, the art of governing and protecting billions of people is very young, and it'll take a lil while to work out the kinks to make it work better
whoever controls the money controls the info, and whoever controls the info controls the world
theeyeisblind 2 years ago
"Well, jeez, look at that! this building is on fire. I think the problem is in the flames, we should make better flames that don't burn buildings." And besides I don't see any reason for regulations whatsoever. Why would any government enact them? What are you going to achieve thru them?
But this was about Tf00t and why do we have quarrel with him. Well as I said, not all of us libertarians are kooky, not all of us believe in conspiracy theories, and most of us agree that some form of social
DaniOcean 2 years ago
eh he didn't lump ALL libertarians together, he specifically refered to hardcore libertarians and even showed video from the "crumpet stuffing redcoat" hating guy
what is acheived through regulations? goddamn dude study a lil history of manufacturing labor laws and it'll be painfully obvious, or just look to china.
OSHA, FDA, EPA, and other agencies are certainly NOT perfect and seriously need to be updated (ceopt OSHA) but they serve as an important safeguard for the society
theeyeisblind 2 years ago
order is needed in order for humanity to exist. We do not take it lightly when some progressive hack comes from the middle of nowhere and starts making stupid remarks with a condescending tone. Not to mention anything else, it is retarded and soon the forces of free market capitalism will show Tf00t that this time he piked the wrong crowd to play with. Think of it like he is Tony Romo, great against your average team, but he totally suck when he goes against the pros...
Best wishes - DaniOcean
DaniOcean 2 years ago
Well said Mister Busta.
I remember watching this go down a few months back and I thought that TF00t would really kill HTWW. But I was surprised to see that HTWW is quite capable of defending his points and taking the fight to TF00t. He came right into HTWW's wheelhouse and got beat up pretty badly by a superior argument.
NoleMan007 2 years ago 3
HTWW said that whale oil was an industrial fuel which was replaced by kerosene...
ugh...seriously... that was a joke in futurama even...
although TF spending two and a half minutes on the earth spinning thing might have been rather excessive..
TehCybernerd 2 years ago 3
Comment removed
Saromatae 2 years ago
Thunderf00t is one of my favorite YouTubers. His videos are informative and full of truth. Something that is all too uncommon in here.
Maybe you have a few valid points but cut him some slack. He's doing a great job of educating the ignorant.
warren52nz 2 years ago
its only ad hominim if its in place of the arguments
BoredAndTiredToNoEnd 2 years ago
You claim the statment..."Rights are not decided by the collective or the Republic" is false by essentially repeating the same thing.
"They are certain inailiable rights that the government and the collective recognizees as being present and being ABOVE any say so of the collective."
Except what you added just doesn't make sense... "ABOVE any say so of the collective"...Huh? that IS the "say so" of the collective.
What kind of point are you trying to make?
Douglas1102 2 years ago
I think your right, thunderfoot is frustrated and that is why he makes the comments that he dose in his videos. i also think that is not for the reasons you think. It is not because he dose not have the facts to disprove what whotheworldwork is saying, in fact he has lots of intelligent arguments. his frustration seems to me to stems for the fact that he actually has to debunk it in the first place, over and over again. I would be, that way I don't bother.I just make snide text comments :P
fireflygirl246 2 years ago
Why can't he do both? Exactly.
Borostiliont 2 years ago
about your business dumping in the stream example: If the stream is concidered "public property" then it is cleaned at the expense of all taxpayers. This gives incentive to business owners to pollute it because they do not pay all of the cost of cleaning it up. If however the stream was privatized, or at least not cleaned at the taxpayer's expense, no business in their rightful mind would pollute it because it will drive their property value through the floor, and kill their business.
Sam26100 2 years ago
If a business is fined when they pollute a public stream they also wouldn't pollute it. Same effect, but the stream isn't private property.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
That could work as well, and it would be concidered constitutional because they are technically dumping into the government's property. But I think my model works better, because with the fine model you need to spend extra $ on enforcing these fines, and government officials can always be paid to look the other way. Again, taxpayers will all pay for this.
Sam26100 2 years ago
The attacks used by thunderf00t are NOT ad hominem. Having seen the video myself its clear that the insults are just insults, not to be taken as any part of the actual argument.
Anyone who claims it to be ad hominem to point out that something is wrong, such as the Earth spinning backwards, is a moron.
And whilst there is, I would agree, no need to insult HTWW's staring, the insults were not to be taken as argument, more of an insulting pet name like "PCS" was.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
You're wrong. I watched the video too, and the "captain staresalot" insult just as an example was a follow up to thunderf00t saying how HTWW staring into the camera with conviction is a sign of HTWW's lack of knowledge on the subject, and trying to make up for it by appearing confident. He then throws a rather large number of insults at HTWW throughout the video, this is an ad hominem tactic defined. Good video Busta
Sam26100 2 years ago
The staring was an accusation of reading something, not a lack of knowledge. The world spinning backwards was thunderf00ts indication of a lack of knowledge.
Also, insults =/= ad hominem. If you believe that then you are wrong. They were insults, not ad hominem. Please, lrn2 fallacy.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
First of all you cannot determine whether a planet is spinning "backwards" when the shot is from space. Thunderf00t made that commnet under the assumption that the picture was of the earth with the north pole at the top, but while looking at it from space the earth can easily appear with the north pole at the bottom depending on what angle you are looking at it from. Furthermore, the ad-hominem attacks were not even the meat of this video. Thunderf00t's ignorant socialism was.
Sam26100 2 years ago
OK, we know the poles flip, so your concept of North = up, South = down is a fail from the start. Next, when all images show the (current) North pole at the top, what makes HTWW so special? Futhermore, HTWW admitted the world was spinning backwards.
Next, there was *under 15 seconds* of insults in ~10 mins of video. They weren't ad hominem because they have nothing to do with his argument anyway. (Which is ~0.025%)
cont.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
cont.
And what has being socialist got to do with thunderf00t's argument anyway? You're just upset that there are people who do not put profit before the interests of people and the planet.
The meat of thunderf00t's videos is proving HTWW wrong on things via science, as thunderf00t does.
Any more fail you want to push under my nose?
KaOtoko 2 years ago
0:53 is when you can see the picture of the earth Freeze. It is not discernable from this picture whether the earth is flipped or not, so thunderf00t's argument is flawed
As for thunderf00t not being pro-socialism? thunderf00t clearly shows his formula on the video as the following: good of society > private profit. According to this model it is okay to strip a millionaire family from it's wealth and leave them starving for the sake of feeding 10,000 hungry people. Worked for Russia! Not
Sam26100 2 years ago
OK, firstly we're talking about a moving image, not a single picture. Stop being such a moron. If we see the Earth we assume North is up. If we see the Earth spinning we also assume North is up.
HTWW ADMITTED IT WAS WRONG. Your point is invalid. Its like defending a toy thats being recalled for being unsafe for use by saying its safe for use.
I didn't say thunderf00t wasn't pro-socialism. I said what has it to do with the argument?
cont.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
As for your straw man argument, thunderf00t suggested that what is good is not always profitable. Also, what the fuck do you think taxes are? Why do you think the more income you have the higher tax you pay? You compare socialism with communism, the extremist view. Putting the environment before profit is NOT the same as stealing from a rich family, just like putting profit before the environment is not the same as paying companies to pump companies into streams to destroy ther environment.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
I said that "good of society > private profit" -thunderf00t was the very model that was used to justify what happened in Russia. That was what I said quite literally, your own "straw man argument" was that I said socialism and communism were the same. I didn't say that, I said that thunderf00t's model justifies communism to the letter, (which may actually suggest that conceptually speaking there isn't much of a gap between socialism and communism).
Sam26100 2 years ago
I made no straw man argument. You implied thunderf00t supported communism in the form of stealing from rich families.
On the same lines, saying what is profitable is good means HTWW justifies killing your best friend because you're both up for a better paying job.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
I am not making an argument agains the rule of law, only against government intervension in trade. If you kill your friend you yourself will be dealt with by retaliatory force, as any society must do if it wishes to avoid extinction. This is such a common argument against free market capitalist proponents that my head frankly hurts. And you say you make no straw man argument, while suggesting that I am supporting lawful murder, or murder for profit? I believe in trade, not killing people
Sam26100 2 years ago
I said that in retaliation to your own straw man argument. My point was that saying socialist ideas justifies communism was the same as that. It was not an argument against capatilism. Learn to read.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
My main problem with thunderf00t is his socialism. I thought this video here does show some hypocricy on his part however, because he warns viewers not to fall for attacks based on appearance or profit motive, then does pretty much the same thing. Let's just say I don't care about this stuff too much, I have a problem with him knocking on free market capitalism without understanding it.
Sam26100 2 years ago
He says he refuses to appear in his videos for fear of appearance based attacks and doesn't ask for money for fear of being accused of just wanting to make money. Thats not hypocritical, thats sticking to your beliefs.
I think thunderf00t understands free market capatilism. He simply disagrees with putting profit before people.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
Let's say I own a business. If I have to put "people before profit" where do you draw the line? what's to stop the people ( my employees) from demanding that I raise wages. What obligation do I have to offer them anything? If I make an offer to pay something they are free to either accept it or not. They may say "your offer doesn't suit me I will go across the street and work for the other guy". Competition sets prices, and wages. give example of putting people above profit please
Sam26100 2 years ago
An example of where it is better to put people before profit?
Lets say I own a factory. I have a load of chemicals produced in my factory that are poisonous, so, because the free market reigns, I dump them in a stream. This stream goes to a town, filters into peoples diets through fish, or suchlike, and everyone dies. Putting people before profit does not entail giving people everything they want.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
I will add that I personally don't think that putting fiscal gain above the quality of your own business or community even, is worthwhile. Example: Home Depot underhiring for the purpose of taking in a bigger profit at the expense of the quality of their work. This is not a good policy I think, and it will kill them in the long run. At the same time I don't think that anybody has an obligation to do anything for anyone else. No government may force a business to give benefits for example
Sam26100 2 years ago
No government can force a business to give benifits, but they can't not force people to stop damaging the environment etc, which will eventually lead to deaths?
KaOtoko 2 years ago
There is currently a bill in the senate proposing specifically this law. They want to make it illegal to hire anybody unless you are providing health insurance. It's called the kennedy bill, and a lot of people think it's a swell idea /sigh. This is because the model "good of society > private profit" and right of entrepreneur not being concidered important by so many, this is a dangerous force in our culture. As for the environment, continued....
Sam26100 2 years ago
Providing health insurance is bad? For the common worker, which is the majority of the population, this is a good thing. Your putting the desires of the few before the desires of the many.
KaOtoko 2 years ago
Ah alas the your real beliefs emmerge. Okay let's concider this: You want to make it mandatory for every business owner to pay for medical insurance. Do you have any clue how many businesses will go out of business? over 2,000,000 have already left this country in the last 2 years because of increasing restrictions. Do you think the common worker will profit as a result of this? I am a common worker myself, and I know that for my own sake I want business owners to decide what they pay/offer
Sam26100 2 years ago
I believe the government should give free health insurance, as they do here in England. As someone who has grown up with that I know the utility of it.
Also, companies in the UK all offer pention schemes, I'm not sure of the state in the US, but this isn't a drain on the companies profit, so why would health insurance?
KaOtoko 2 years ago
There are pention schemes here as well from private companies. Remember, "free" health insurance is not really free /winkwink. We all pay for it, even those who do not use it. Please watch: watch?v=irsEVye45Jg&feature=channel_page
for an explanation given by a professional economist of why "free" health care hurts business, and subsequently us all.
Also, forgive me if I get carried away, you seem fairly intelligent and I do not mean to offend you, but I am passionate about this topic.
Sam26100 2 years ago
"I believe the government should give free health insurance, as they do here in England."
Doctors, nurses, and the like do not work for free.
BigDaddyBongos 2 years ago
Another wacko who doesn't understand the idea of consent, or human rights.
BigDaddyBongos 2 years ago
"He says he refuses to appear in his videos for fear of appearance based attacks and"
then engages in appearance based attacks.
Moron.
BigDaddyBongos 2 years ago
He does understand it.
He just abandoned his intellectual integrity when discussing it.
BigDaddyBongos 2 years ago
rights that cannot be taken away? are you fucking serious? more than half of this planet's population is living without any of the rights that "can not be taken away" right now, alot more than half actually. u know why? because the collective/government in those parts of the world doesnt recognise those rights!
ivanzenforce 2 years ago
cheekbeard the pirate is stupid in commy and socialist states you run into forced labor and even more CONTROLLED pay and more and at least potential forced labor
tubaboy71 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I tried to post this on How The World Works channel but he blocked me. hmmm. Here it is :::: I nocited that my comment was removed regarding whether or not HTWW was a jewish zionist. First off, I thought he didn't REMOVE ANY comments. I didn't even 1 star the video. Also, I wonder if he understands how one's ideology will always "COLOR" a debate. This is true for everyone. CONTD
itrainsinoctober 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In terms of the actual debate itself it is irrelevant. By this I mean you may not be able to discern one's ideology(belief system) by the debate itself. What needs to be understood is that what is CHOSEN to be debated will be a direct reflection of one's ideology as will the words that come out of one's mouth. This is basic psychology 101. CONT'D
itrainsinoctober 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Now this is null and void only if one is able to free themselves from beliefs themselves. Remember, you do not have to believe in something in order to debate it. In fact, having a belief in something is a direct impediment to an OBJECTIVE debate. Now this is no easy task but surely one that should be discussed. There is a book that came out around 2000 called The Power of Now that lends a good understanding to this topic.
itrainsinoctober 2 years ago
i enjoy thunderfoots videos.
but you do make some valid points..
4 stars
dcblyke 2 years ago
The video doesn't really address anything and the uploader is completely wrong about ad hominem. An ad hominem is not synonymous to 'insults'.
chapaev36 2 years ago
It might not be an exact detraction from an argument by attempting to discredit the arguer by attacking their character... But you can't tell me that calling someone some stupid name distracts the viewers from the argument, it also gives the trolls a lot of ammunition.
LiberalofLiberty 2 years ago
Comment removed
chapaev36 2 years ago
I've seen both Thunderf00t's and HTWW's videos. He spend about 2 minutes making personal attacks, and then the rest of his points are obliterated on multiple occasions by not just HTWW but two other you tube users. Neither of which TF has responded to, and he's had over a month. It's not as if HTWW and others haven't addressed the points already.
TF never should have made those things an issue in the first place if he didn't want to make an issue of it.
LiberalofLiberty 2 years ago
I've seen this and the HTWW ones and all they did was basically just engage in "tu quoque" accusations. These are basically fallacies which pretend to discredit the person by saying "you're just as bad what you're accusing me of being", without actually tackling the actual arguments. It's pretty weak and I don't even like Thunderf00t. I find his battles with creationists to be rather pointless and his swine flu videos grievously uninformed. But he's a better person than these two.
chapaev36 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Crying foul over 'ad hominems' - especially when the person doesn't know what ad hominem is - is a tactic of avoiding following through with the argumentation. It's just a way of saying "you insulted me and therefore you're no good". Insults are actually often bang on - even Shakespeare himself said that idiots are "full of sound and fury". Thunderf00t is 100% correct about HTWW and same holds true here - one detracts from the real arguments and instead cherry-picks the bits to obscure logic.
chapaev36 2 years ago
That's some pretty selective quote mining you did there... thunderf00t doesn't have to insult, there you might have a point, but you are taking it out of context which is not a great way to make a point. To be honest, when someone spouts as much bullshit as HTWW and does it with such conviction, then even going so far as to boldly proclaim his superior "league," even I get truly irritated and I'm not a part of the argument. There's an extra sting when someone is both condescending AND stupid.
digitalshark 2 years ago
Well put MisterBusta.
NoleMan007 2 years ago
right on. methinks tfoot loves the fact that he sounds like a more masculine version of Dawkins, but what comes out his mouth is mostly the same kind of annoying stuff --- sticky marshmallow fluff & peanut butter (those of u who've had a pb & fluff sandwich know about the annoying STICKY). Ok, really bad analogy, but it's pretty late & haven't slept in two nights. you get the point... I'd rather listen to htwworks anyday :0P
jazzinnature081 2 years ago
Well said mister busta, well said. Thunderf00t did himself absolutely no favours and in my mind he's just a pathetic hypocritic. He's a loser who's used to have people just believe everything he says without challenging him and when somebody did he tried to poisoning the well. He's a dick.
Jkl9559 2 years ago
great vid! most of the people who support tfoot and tma are very young and havent had a real job on which they pay real taxes or havent been educated past high school.. thanks for your defense of somebody you don't necessarily agree with!
makilgore06 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I'm so glad that you totally missed the point of what you call attacks. That video was about credibility, presenting arguments and seeing things for what they really are.
The names he used to reference HTWW, are quite nice compared to what most people call him. Not to mention that you took all of those audio segments out of context. He can call him anything he wants to! I can call you anything I want to!! You can call me anything You want to!! You Ass plug cock-knocking mutha fucka!! ; )
nishbrown 2 years ago
Good video. This has a low rating because Thunderfoot's followers act like mindless drones.
Liezei 2 years ago
So wait capitalsm had nothing to do with black slavery. And I'm assuming no one including companies made money off the backs of these slaves then is that what you're saying? I would really like your explaination
larsreal9 2 years ago
Do you understand the concept of consent?
BigDaddyBongos 2 years ago
Question: were you replying to me with this comment on the matter of capitalism making a profit from slavery? Because I was got you comment emailed to me?
larsreal9 2 years ago
Yeah. Do you understand the concept of consent, or not?
BigDaddyBongos 2 years ago
Seriously man I have no memory of what you're referencing so tell and then I can answer you because I have no time to searce for my initial comment
larsreal9 2 years ago
Capitalism is based on private ownership of the means of production. Trade of those means can only occur when both parties consent.
Slavery does not involve the consent of the slave, it is merely state sanctioned redistribution of the slave's labour to the slave "owner". It therefore, cannot be capitalist, by definition,
BigDaddyBongos 2 years ago
He points out the bullshit because HTWW lied about it.
0nePumpChump 2 years ago
Oh, and the world spinning backwards DOES have relevence, as TF rightly pointed out. HTWW made a defence of his dodgy earth spinning bungle, that illustrated an unnerving failure of deduction. All he had to do was reverse it. Shouldn't the all conquering intellect have made that deduction?
Thunderf00t looks kind of like Jeff Goldblum.
Hzqi 2 years ago
This is a poorly contrived address of the Thunderf00t situation. TF himself has address this very video, and made intricate mince from it. TF uses "nicknames" to refer to people, much the same way that HTWW calls Amazign Atheist "Deep Thinker" and TF "The Expert" (curious that you didn't mention that), but it doesn't mean that it's all ad hominem. HTWW does act like a money grubbing whore, that's a DESCRIPTION of his conduct, directly linked to motive.
TF has shown his own context ratio- FTW
Hzqi 2 years ago
awsome job! keep it up
MOOPsQuad 2 years ago 2
He does use put down and insults, but he also uses facts, logic and reason. it is only an adhominum attack when people use nothing but discreditation to make their point.
BrightRaven0 2 years ago
It is VERY obvious why thunderfoot never appears in any of his videos -- he has a face only a mother can love.
tninaf 2 years ago
He looks perfectly normal to me.
Ze8us 2 years ago
true!!
VyckRo 2 years ago
The world spinning backwards does has someting to do with it. FACT!
herpessores 2 years ago
thunderfoot is appealing to common belief fallacy and that's why he fails.
ProudToBLoud 2 years ago 4
The points about the world spinning backwards and the staring are discussed first, and then ridiculed. That's not ad hominem. That's reducto ad absurdum.
gamutman 2 years ago
Rights aren't decided by the collective, they are enforced by the collective. Without the concensus from the collective they won't exist in reality, only in theory will they exist. You were right about ad hominem attacks mostly.
Good job.
ArchhereticK 2 years ago
you picked up pompoms to cheer for flawed logic with more flawed logic
pantha266 2 years ago
The irony behind someone with the name howtheworldworks spinning the "world" the wrong way somehow escapes you? I think it's poetic justice. Furthermore it's interesting that you claim tf isn't evidencing the "errors in the message."
Which one did he not? I saw the vid and he countered them. Yes he peppered them with insults. But they were clever. Maybe you don't recognize the entertainment value in that. Perhaps your staid demeaner isn't worth watching.
TheStrangeRanger 2 years ago
well said Mister Busta. I do have a few issues with some of your statements, but its not enough to take away from some of your more valid points.
In the end we are all humans who need to be told when some shit just aint alright.
gobblegobblechew 2 years ago
I have real problem with people who think the market or capitalism are the solution to everything however you were right on with the criticism of thunderfoot here on the bullshit. I also agree with you point about the rights, so would most legal experts. That's why they are called rights.
HTWW is a just wrong on global warming though.
ArchNME 2 years ago
Also, nothing of what thunderf00t said could be an ad hominem attack because it was never used as a substitute for an actual argument. Last time I checked, "instead of" and "in addition to" mean two entirely different things.
Thunderf00t attacked and questioned the motives of HTWW IN ADDITION TO addressing his specific arguments.
generaleskimo 2 years ago
Just because Tf00t doesn't take money because he doesn't want to appear to have a conflict of interest DOES NOT mean that it is hypocritical for accusing this of others. Yes, he knows that it is possible to take money and have it misinterpreted, but he also knows that the potential for there to be a legitimate conflict of interest IS REAL. It is not enough evidence to condemn HTWW on its own, but it is enough to raise suspicion.
generaleskimo 2 years ago
In science, especially in the medical sciences, the exact same practice is followed. This is also very true in the legal profession. You avoid having what could be perceived as a conflict of interest, even if it is entirely benign, in order to reinforced credibility. At the same time, you point out the conflicts of interest in peers, even though you don't know that such conflicts matter. This is the process that ensures credibility, and is invaluable to the medical and legal professions.
generaleskimo 2 years ago