Um, alright. Just one question: with "80% of America" on your side, what exactly is stopping this 80% from making the changes they want to make?
Are you really admitting that this 80% is so incredibly impotent that they can't ignore the crazy 20% long enough to pass the legislation they want?
Or could it be that your numbers are off and you're simplistically lumping anyone who disagrees with your positions into a single group you label as insane?
Why should insurance or hospitals be run as for-profit institutions? It is never good to have a corporation choose between profits for stock-holders and managing the care of the sick.
The Big Scary Gov't you wack-jobs are so afraid of is already caring for our grandparents, and you like it that way. Un-insured and under-insured Americans already cost us collectively a fortune in lost wages, productivity loss, and more, beyond the simple moral imperative we have to provide for one another.
Why wont liberals wake up and stop believing all this white house propaganda.
anybody read the 1300 pages of Legalese health bill ?No? neither did obama. I skimmed it & almost puked at all the pork & totalitarian government involvement in our lives.
Its obamas patriot act. Luckily he will fail.
too bad Bush didnt fail to pass his bill.
Obama heading for fastest failed presidency in american history. enjoy your legacy failure.
There are a lot of ignorant people in the world, Why don't we just give everything we own to the rich and then kill ourselves? Because thats what you're asking us to do when you expect us to keep giving more power to the dumbasses who screw everything up, and then manage to make things worse when they say they're going to "fix it".
Here's a couple of suggestions for craft projects.
Make a hat out of tin foil. It stimulates the creative part of your brain, keeps your hands busy and protects you from government thought rays.
Build a gun case and shoot some thread sealer into the lock. Again, keeps your hands busy and will prevent the government socialists from taking your guns.
If you are confused by that section, surely many other people are as well. (It doesn't help that the insurance industry is out-and-out lying to you about it.) I think I am going to polish my message to you a little bit and send it to the Huffington Post, they might like to post it. I'll let you know if they do.
Yes, it's unfortunate we can't have this conversation here, but it is too long. I have responded to you explaining what that section does. It can be very complicated if you aren't used to reading bills and laws, but once you see how it works it's actually very simple.
This section is actually quite uncontroversial and good. It simply says that a doctor is free to talk to you about your living will, and INSURANCE WILL PAY FOR THE CONVERSATION. Wow, that is a great addition to health insurance.
yes, perhaps. You're long on ad hominem, short on substance, huh? It's interesting how you started the conversation a few days ago by attacking everyone for not reading, for being dumb, etc. I simply asked you to put your money where your mouth is, and you clammed up right quick, huh!
For the fifth time, please cite exactly which sections of the health care bill are troubling to you.
Ha ha. I guess we uncovered the truth about you, huh? Unfortunately for you, I'm not "too young"--anyone over 18 has the same say in it as you do. I vote, I have a phone to call my congress person.
I thought my law degree might be helpful to you in sorting out the difficult legal language, but obviously you are not interested in actually understanding the bill. Obama is black, he must be evil. Right? That's what you meant to say.
Let me know if you'd like to actually examine the bill.
The amounts received in the Treasury under section 3111(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to employers electing to not provide health benefits).
If your employer doesnt sign up for government health care your employer will be taxed for it anyway. This raises cost for employers and will cost you your job
If this is a public option why are mandatory taxes imposed for non-compliance
to stop taking applications for participation in the program or take such other steps in reducing expenditures under the reinsurance program in order to ensure
If the Secretary determines that a participating employment-based plan has submitted a valid claim under paragraph (1), the Secretary shall reimburse such plan for 80 percent of that portion of the costs attributable to such claim that exceeds $15,000, but is less than $90,000.
There is established a private-public advisory committee which shall be a panel of medical and other experts (government) to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits
The Health Benefits Advisory committee will decide what is covered and what is not. If it cost too much, Its not covered.
SEC. 1173A. STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSACTIONS
(D) enable the real-time or near real
time determination of an individuals financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including
whether the individual is eligible for a specific
service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card
Fourth time: please cite for me the exact paragraph you are concerned about. If you are reading it with three other people right now, that should be easy for you to do. Why won't you do that for me? Even if you don't want to talk to me about it, at least let me read it for myself for my own edification.
(By "ecr" do you mean et cetera? That is "etc." [Just for clarification.])
I'm waiting for your response. I'm really looking forward to reading the bill with you, to have you show me exactly what it says that has you worried, maybe to go over the confusing parts together.
It will be interesting and enlightening for both of us, and might be educational to anyone listening as well. Please write back! (And tell me the exact sections that you are concerned about.)
The second is that one of the terms of office for a new "commissioner" hired to implement the plan is five years. After five years she will be replaced.
The third is that if a patient requests an "advanced care consultation," the new plan will pay for one every five years, or more often in certain circumstances. Note it PAYS FOR what the PATIENT REQUESTS. It doesn't require anything.
So, those are the mentions of five years. Again, please point out exactly the sections you are concerned about.
I just went through the bill. The time period of five years is only mentioned in three places. One is some very obscure change to the social security law regarding durable medical equipment. (Remember that a bill only changes the language of the current law--you can't understand it without looking at the existing law as well to see what changed. For instance, one provision of H.R. 3200 is "change 'greater' to 'lesser'" What does THAT mean? You need to read the law it is modifying to understand.)
Uh-oh, I'm a little concerned now. This will make the THIRD time I have asked you to tell me which sections you are reading that have you concerned.
Three times? It's starting to look an awful lot like you haven't read anything, and for some reason everything you're saying is a lie (I can't fathom why).
So please, for the third time, which sections are you reading that have you concerned? Be specific--don't name an entire 200-page section. Give me the language that concerns you.
I have my own story of the absurd stupidity of the current system that I won't bore you with now--it will also be taken care of by a simple computer system under the new plan.
So when you say all businesses and individuals must enroll, be careful what you mean. That doesn't mean you must change your current insurance. Not at all. It only means (I need to read it first) that everyone needs to HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE in five years: exactly what he promised--everyone will be covered.
Remember, for instance, that part of the health care reform is going to be to streamline the paperwork, so that you will be able to go into any doctor anywhere without trouble. Right now, my mom is having trouble with her back. She had to get an MRI, then she had to physically take the film to her doctor! How insane and backward is that? With the new HC plan, it will all be streamlined so you won't have to go through BS like that anymore.
Give me the citations to the parts that concern you. Let's read it together. It will be fun, and two heads are surely better than one, and with the text in front of us it is likely one of us will be able to show the other exactly where they are mistaken.
But whatever the medicare reforms are,they are improvements.
If you will tell me the sections that you are reading that you are worried about, I would be happy to read them too. Legislation is VERY difficult for a lay person to understand. It simply doesn't say things like "people get to keep their medicare."
It's taken experts 60 years to write this legislation; the chances of you understanding it properly on a first reading, especially with the likes of Rush whispering in your ear, are slim.
I looked over the table of contents this morning after writing to you. One part of the bill pertains to improvements to medicare. (Before you let that scare you, remember that a stated goal of the GOP is to destroy medicare. It is a poster child for everything that the GOP thinks is wrong with liberalism. Democrats are responsible for your medicare as it is now--if it were up to the GOP it would already be gone.)
The WORST thing that can happen to anyone in Obama's plan is they stay exactly where they are. In addition, the millions and millions and millions who are forced into private insurance, or have no coverage at all have another option.
Don't you know it is a STATED GOAL of the GOP to eliminate medicare? How can you really believe Obama wants to eliminate medicare? You can't possibly really believe that. It is utterly absurd.
You don't have to deal with insurance companies. All I want is the same opportunity to have government-run health care that you have.
But in addition, Obama's health care plan does NOTHING to your existing care. All it does is give people an additional OPTION to buy health care with guaranteed benefits, at a reasonable price.
Would you mind talking to me for a minute, seriously?
Obama's goal is to make sure 100% of the people have insurance. So everything you say here about _anyone_ not being insured is not true. Why do you think it is? How can you really believe he would take away medicare? He wants to EXPAND medicare to provide it to everyone, not just seniors.
Is it true you are on medicare? The healthcare you are happy with is medicare? That is government run health care! And OF COURSE you like it!
If your insurance co has a good policy and will follow the new laws within this bill, you get to keep it..plan and simple...end of story. What are the new rules? They can't dump you for preexisting conditions and they can't refuse to pay for treatments doctors order. They can't adjust your payments but once a year. On the other hand, you can move on, once a year to a better or cheaper or more coverage insurance.
Where in the plan does it refer to Medicare going away? I've read the bill and I must have missed that, can you point me to the sec?
I do understand that if you qualify for Medicare, you would not be included in an exchange plan, for low and moderate income people. but on the other hand, if what you say about Medicare being phased out, wouldn't it be better to allow people into the exchange now?
Conservatives rely on lies for support. Obviously if their bullshit is shown for what it is they would never get votes, so they need to keep their base even dumber than it has already become. They incite them with fear with misleading talking points, and use this mass ignorance to demonize opponents.
Slow the F@#$ down? Tell your Congresspeople that. They're the ones shoving this bill down our throats. The last I checked, 70% of Americans were happy with their health coverage. I thought the President was supposed to represent 'the people'? Funny how you only cry out 'majoriy' and 'democracy' when it suits your agenda.
NO ONE is "happy" with their health coverage. Are you frikking kidding me?! The only people who are happy with their health coverage are those who have never gone to the doctor.
It doesn't matter why I go--for me, most recently, to get vaccinations for school--any visit to a doctor will result in YEARS of arguments with them about who is going to pay.
Satisfied with their health coverage? Give me a fucking break.
So, who exactly is killing anyone-besides your government with their stupid wars, mandatory vaccines, and now this atrocious 'health care reform' bill that rations cancer treatment and requires permission from the State for 'life extending treatment' such as antibiotics and IV fluids?
Have you even READ Obama's bill?
You get told on the news that some old guy who went postal was a fan of Alex Jones and you decide anyone who opposes anything the government pushes is a terrorist.
Wow, the second comment from the top proves the point of the video. Do you even realize there are several bills? If you've read the bill, as implied by your question, where are the provisions you claim are there? How about a section, a quote, a URL? Or are you afraid to discover you've been taken in by insurance company lies?
I live in Canada, where we have socialized health care and I'm all for it. Butthere is no *rationing* of things like cancer care here, and you don't need a doctor to give you permission for life-extending care (defined as including antibiotics and IV fluids) every 5 years in accordance with guidelines dictated by the State. Go to THOMAS search engine, look up that bill and read the PDF version esp. pages 424-427.
Wait, this is BS. It's not possible for someone who lives in Canada to be this grossly misinformed and this fired up about it.
This is what I don't understand in what you're saying: currently 40 million Americans don't have health insurance. If you DO have health ins., Obama's plan does nothing but force ins. cos. to pay your bills as they promised they will.
If you DON'T have health ins., than Obama will provide it to you. How is having health ins. "rationing" what you don't otherwise have?
America has problems with health insurance, and sure they need reform, but I read this bill and it's CRAZY! No wonder people are showing up at town meetings freaking out on their representatives. If this gets passed, everyone will regret it, even more than the stimulus bill and all the rest.
And like I said, I'm Canadian and I'm all for our system, but our system doesn't ration care or put the government in charge of deciding who gets it and who doesn't. We all get it, as much as we need.
Oh, you've actually read the bill? Would you mind pointing out to me, then, exactly the provisions you think are crazy?
(I'm amazed you would take the time to read a 1000-page piece of legislation. I'm sure you've never read your insurance agreement or your banking agreement. Why would you? Those corporations won't be dishonest.)
Anyway, please point out exactly the parts you don't like, so I can read them too. (Since the plan expands coverage, not rations it, I think you're misreading it.)
You are clearly a voice of reason. The sad part is that I want those to be mischaracterizations of the Republican party, but they really are becoming the right-wing nuts of stereotype folklore. It's not good for the country or our image.
I'm sorry you don't believe in people being able to be angry with their representatives, or that it is right for them to voice opinions, tainted or not (isn't that what lobbyists do on the hill already?).
I'm sorry you believe there is only one solution to this issue and cannot see past the left rhetoric of, "just trust me, I'll take care of it, you don't worry or think about it, or have an opinion of any sort other than what I tell you".
Yes, we need change, but not rammed down our throats.
Lets follow this through. You want to force American citizens to leave, just because they are angry/upset and want their voices heard, just so that other Americans can be heard and the first group left out w/o their claims being heard???
When do we stop, when all the dissenting voices are gone??
Even Hilary Clinton knows that getting your voice heard sometimes takes some effort. Search Youtube for:
You said, "people should never be silenced," yet that is exactly what the screamers are doing.
I think everyone should be heard, I never said anything different. All I advocate is simple, civil rules of discourse, same as in Congress. Each person gets 5 minutes, or 2 minutes, or whatever is fair. No one else talks during that time. Anyone who interrupts is forced to leave.
What could possibly be wrong with that? When everyone yells no one is heard. If people wait their turn, everyone will be.
I don't think there's anything wrong w/ that proposal, except forcing people to leave. Yeah, it would be nice if everything was perfect and orderly, but this is America, and real life, since when have we ever done anything quietly?
Seriously, forcing people to leave only makes things worse. Congressmen getting upset at constituents compound the problem, search youtube for:
Congressman David Scott Angry Tirade
Even when people are peaceful and orderly like you suggest they STILL aren't heard.
No, you're wrong about that. There are maybe 100 people in an audience? (I don't know.) A few loud people who have no interest in debate or hearing what the reform is about can prevent 100 people from hearing about it. Removing the disrupters would allow hundreds more people to talk about the issue. The disrupters aren't interested in the topic anyway (seen my conversation with "standforamerica"?
In case you're not aware of this,the disrupters are NOT Americans.What they are is shills for the corporate interests whose profits will be taken away by a health care system that actually works.
It's true these people aren't paid by the insurance industry, but they are too stupid to even listen to what the bill says. A death panel? Somehow Obama is BOTH fascist and socialist? These people have nothing to contribute. Any senator would be HAPPY to EXPLAIN the bill to anyone who wanted to hear.
What are you talking about? I just listened to Hillary--she was exactly right. She should be heard. No one said differently. So why are the screamers preventing people from talking? Get rid of the two or three who are disruptive, and suddenly 50 people can be heard. Then go in the other room and listen to the disrupters. What's wrong with that?
You claim to be for freedom of speech but you are advocating exactly the opposite.
Its fairly apparent you don't care about actually debating people as other posts you've made to others are how they are wrong and you re-educating them on your beliefs. I'll say my peace one more time, then I'm done. Search youtube for:
Congressman David Scott Angry Tirade
(actually do it this time)
The doctor talking to him WAS polite, and DID waited his turn. It was when the floor was open to any topic.
The Congressman was the one berating his constituents. Its called a NO WIN situation.
Rooks: libel and inciting people to riot are also against the law, but that is what they are doing. It's a matter of time before one of these mobs kills someone.
Libel is a serious charge, and it would be wise not to sling allegations unless you have proof.
Hmm, a riot. The only violence I've seen so far is when SEIU members attacked someone for handing out pamphlets.
I've seen people that are shouting that they are not being heard, I've seen lots of politicians and reps. that start out with leading statements, and I've heard chanting like "read the bill" and as stated above, the Pledge of Allegiance. I guess some people are offended by patriotism.
I wonder when the Republicans are going to have Town Halls on Health care, and listen to people and open up a discussion on the subject? People are being heard at these meetings. I used to be a Republican, but now I am a centrist, as are most people in this country. I am also a Patriot, and have no issue with unions, As far as Libel, yes the health insurance companies are spreading lies to create fear about any kind of health care reform, which our country needs. The French model is top notch.
Part of the problem for the right wing nutjobs is they have no one to believe in right now. Look at W. He gave them a black or white view of the world. Republicans don't have the mental reasoning to comprehend anything outside of the box.
I love this crap! first we have Bush. Illegal wars, 911 ( still don't Know what the truth actually is but if you believe the 911 commission report...... let's just say this needs to be reopened), Halburton, antipatriot act, & Bailouts while the "R"s are pissing they're pants over Terrorism & Liberals scream foul play. now, under Obama, we have bailouts (of the top 5% rich, Goldman sachs) Corrupt Appointee's, Questionable Birth certificate, a dollar that's crashing......
while the "D"s are chasing Health care the conservatives are screaming foul play. & You want to call People like me Crazy? if you want to define Crazy first Define the Norm. if the Norm is listening to the Government Propaganda, forget it, I'll stay Crazy
Your defending the same Type of BS you were Fighting against just a year ago. what "change" did we get? for those of you that are saying Give him time, how much time do you need to finally say "this is BS"
Well, we just have to see what happens with health care. If we don't get health care reform, or if we get "reform" without a public option, then Obama will have failed. And republicans will no longer have to worry about attacking the Democrats in office, because America will do it for them.
Wait, by "people like me" you mean you don't believe Obama was born in America? You believe health care reform is going to kill old people? You think Sarah Palin makes sense?
If that's what you mean by "like me," then you ARE crazy--or at least unfathomably stupid.
(Oh, the norm is people who can connect concepts logically, are able to recognize logical contradictions, are able to recognize reality as separate from racist ideology, etc.)
1) to end the questions & re unite the people, why don't he just release his records to the public? if that's what it takes to end this.
2) I believe the bill being proposed is too vague in meaning & has so much legal jargon in it NOBODY can understand it & that in itself should be grounds to question it (I understand Obama didn't write it)
3) you think I'm a republican? you assume too much
then by your own admission you are crazy because the logical concept of freedom escapes you
again why bring up race? did anything I said have anything to do with race? this is a favorite defensive strategy of democrats to make the opposition back down - Fail
I would never expect a racist to back down for being called racist. It is just the truth, and a way to explain the utter illogic of your position.
Of course there are really three kinds of republicans:
1) Those the GOP benefits--those making over $500K a year.
2) Those who make a lot, who are being sucked dry by the GOP but lack any morality, so worry more about the small amount of money they should share rather than the money being stolen from above.
your a democrat right? did you Know you have a Known member of the KKK in your party? do you know it was southern democrats that wanted to keep blacks slaves? keep towing that party line for obama, he'll cut you in on some of that goldman sachs money - not
I have two questions I would be appreciative if you could answer:
1) what in the world is a "long form" birth certificate? Had you ever heard of such a thing before the birthers made it up?
2) OBAMA'S MOTHER IS AMERICAN. It doesn't matter where he was born, anyone born of an American is American--that's what it means to be natural-born. What do you disagree with about that?
Thank you for your time--I'm asking you seriously.
I believe what is being asked for is the original birth certificate, yes I heard of it because I have a short form myself, Mine got burnt up in a fire, it is a certificate stating I am a citizen, but it is not my birth certificate
by your definition he is an American citizen. the question is about him being a natural born citizen.
I would never expect a racist to believe he's racist. It's far too deep and insidious for that. It would be next to impossible even to get you to see it. Read, say, Henry Louis Gates, for a much better explanation.
If I feel sane, and 80% of the people think I'm crazy (and where on earth are you getting that number?) I ill stand my ground. I will not walk off the bridge like a lemming, just because other people disagree.
But you are "walking off the bridge" because of people like you we have no middle class. Because of the republicans the transfer of wealth went from the middle to the top five percent, if trickle down worked why don't we have jobs, do you really think the CEO's earn 15 or 20 million a year, that used to be your wages. How many jobs did they ship overseas to get those millions. Wake up! you've been had!
I am middle class. If the Democrats are the party of the poor, how do they increase their voting populace? By making them poor. If the Republicans are the party of the rich, how do they increase their voting base? BY MAKING THEM WEALTHY. Or having the chance to. Overseas jobs have gone because of too much regulation, and too much taxes.
According to our founders it is their job to create opportunity, not create equal things. I think the Republicans are off track as well, but that's why our grassroots efforts need to take hold, and we need to take our country back to the people where it belongs.
What would give you any indication RACE has anything to do with anything. I've never made a racial comment at all. I'm not stupid, but I believe differently than you do. I'm not a racist. I think ALL men are created equal. Everyone has the right to make something of themselves. All are God's children, no exceptions. How do republicans get votes based on racial fears? You have it wrong. We are peace-loving, freedom-loving people. I believe in individual rights.
I'll bet if we dug in about 2 inches below the surface, what you mean when you say "I believe in individual rights," is that welfare makes people lazy. Don't even bother to answer.
If you believed in equal rights and individual rights, you would know that equal "rights" without equal opportunity is nonsensical. What you mean is you believe in your own right to keep your own privilege, even though you had an unfair head start.
Sorry, bothering to answer. The governments responsibility is to provide equal rights (or opportunity) not equal things. How on earth can you say I had an unfair head start? Everything I have I have earned. I worked, I protected my credit, I was wise with my purchases, and I give to charity in proportion to my earnings. There is a huge place for welfare, but not from the government. If each city and county and state handled these things with their own money, we would eliminate gov. waste.
You grew up in a ghetto? In a public school where the kids carried guns? Did you have both parents? How often did you hear gunfire out your window as you were growing up?
Fair head start indeed.
Something that eludes people like you is that the government IS the people--it is US deciding what to do with OUR resources. If you don't like it, you can vote, or leave.
(Of course I mean well-run gov't programs that have not been sabotaged by the republicans in order to claim they don't work.)
We can't help that you had a hard life, if your looking for sympathy, we feel bad for you. what are you doing to improve yourself? Keep blaming Whitey, you'll go far
face it, your a black man with a chip on his shoulder blaming the white man for everything wrong with your life, you take responsibility for nothing,. just by your comments I can see through your race baiting, you hate whitey. therefore you've become what you hate - a racist
Was this directed at me? Are you the one who claimed you're not racist? You just accused me of being black! You have absolutely nothing to base that on except that I am not beholden to whites. Your reasoning seems to be: "Let's see, if he were white, he would, like me, believe that whites should not have to help blacks. He thinks differently, so he must be black."
OF COURSE YOU CAN HELP, that's the entire point. Your immoral belief is that you shouldn't have to help, even though all your privilege was built on the backs of those less privileged.
wtf do you mean you "can't" help? Tax those who steal, use it to build better schools, better homes, better lives for the underprivileged. You'll find in no time that the truth is blacks, Latinos, etc. are every bit as smart, and suddenly your privilege will disappear. (see, e.g., Sotomayor.)
Your immoral belief is that you are owed something. I helped long enough, it's time for people to start doing for themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if this has the totally opposite effect of what you were hoping for. not only are people PISSED about what your asking for, PISSED you are asking for more, they're questioning what you already receive. too many people have taken the "hand up" & turned it into a way of life.
ha ha ha. It's so funny that I knew before you said a word exactly what you thought, and you have proven me to be exactly right.
No one owes me anything; I've had more than enough opportunity. I'm not so self-centered as to think that someone growing up in the situations I described would be able to succeed as easily as I have.
The point is you believe you deserve your privilege. No one deserves privilege. Everyone deserves opportunity. Not hand-outs. Opportunity.
Still a fail, what is my Privilege? to work? are you under the assumption there's a secret white employment place that I go to get a Job? if anything it would be the opposite. you demonstrate why you haven't succeeded in your answers, you have a chip on your shoulder & nobody wants to deal with you. become a member of society or don't, It's your choice. but if you fail it's your own fault.
What is your privilege? You tell me. Describe your schooling. Describe the neighborhood where you grew up, your home life, etc. It's either more privileged than the most underprivileged in our society or it's not.
Is it or not? Don't debate with me in the abstract, am I right or not?
your a Joke, I can't believe you believe your own bull. the people you need to blame are your parents for your environment. I will make my point clearly, I came from a poor white family, we lived in fishtown PA, probably not far from you. the neighborhood went to hell so my parents moved to a shack in the NJ suburbs. now, go slap your folks for not doing the same or man up & change your situation. you are pathetic & you deserve the life you choose. I would hardly call this a debate.
You mean fishtown, the suburb of Philadelphia? Jesus, I that IS not far from me!
You don't hear so good. I've said many times I'm not talking about myself. I have had more privilege than anyone needs, and have added to it with my own ambition.
Of course we only have your word for it that your family was "poor"--most _poor_ people don't have the resources to pick up and move. Still if you grew up in a public school in Phila., that is no easy task. . . .
well the house we moved to cost $7,000 in 1969. like I said it was more of a shack then a mansion.but it served it's purpose. actually it is the reason I became successful, Poverty Sucks. It's also the reason I'm hard on anyone who depends on government rather the do for themselves. it should also be incentive for you to be pushing others that were like you to follow your lead, assuming you bettered yourself by working your way out of your bad situation.
I may be an asshole but I'm a self supported, self made asshole with health Insurance that I work for. there's many that rise above, I'm not the only one. you make it sound like it's something out of reach. we moved because of the theft & violence, if you want to associate crime with race go ahead. regardless of how poor we were the Question remains the same.Why are you (not you specifically) Poor? & who's to blame? what are you doing about it?
Let me ask you, and think about this seriously before you answer:
Let's say we had 100% tax on inheritance. Would that be unfair to anyone? _who_? Would it be unfair to you, who earned the money? Why? You're dead. Would it be unfair to your children? Why? It's no more their money than it is my money.
Where do you get this idea that wealth should transfer from one generation to the next. Ask yourself seriously--on what are you basing that belief?
By the way, one more thing. The POINT is, you had to fight twenty times as hard for whatever you have accomplished than the child of some bank CEO. How is that equal opportunity? WHY should you have to work twenty times harder than some other kid in the US for whatever you accomplish? I'll bet you never accomplish one tenth as much as the children of CEOs do--why? Because they STARTED 99 yards ahead of you in the 100-yard race. . . .
My point is I don't or didn't Blame anyone who has Succeeded for my failure or success. I could never justify taking money from them that I didn't earn. I understand there will always be classes of people & you choose your class by your actions.if a CEO's child is Rich because the CEO earned the money then the child deserves the money by birthright. who are we to take it from them. it's not "unfair" to you but to me also, I just don't view it as unfair. the money was earned then passed on.
it's Equal opportunity because your parents could have done the same. my parents could have done the same. I think you have a problem with your outlook on life. Do the Best that you can & don't worry about other people if it doesn't effect you. I can't change your outlook on life. I can only live my life by my beliefs & so far my beliefs have taken me pretty far.
There is an ENORMOUS logical hole in your reasoning. You should keep what YOU make? Sure, within reason. How does that translate to your children should keep what you make? Unearned inheritance is _the_ thing that keeps people from having equal opportunity in this country.
"There will always be classes, and you choose your class." That's exactly the point: you don't. You'll never be allowed into one of their country clubs, no matter how hard you work.
You don't blame anyone--that is exactly what is so honestly sad about people like you. You're like a retarded person in the Special Olympics who is proud for completing the 100-yard dash in under 2 minutes. Sure, for what you started with you did well. But the point is you're not retarded; you're as capable as anyone. Yet the rich in this country are making you run the race with both arms and legs tied behind you, and blind-folded, while they hire someone to run for them. . . .
What is so truly heart-wrenching about conversations like this is that you are more proud of the extremely mild success you have had than angry about how hard you had to work to achieve a tiny fraction of what the privileged will have.
All I want---for YOU and everyone like you and those less privileged than you--is for you to have the same OPPORTUNITY as anyone else. What in the world is wrong with that?! You're protective of the pennies that you have--no one wants them!
Your right, I'm proud of my mild success. if you want a little justice to all this, just think of how hard it must be for the child of a CEO to sustain a lifestyle that he didn't create,or how hard it will be for them if the dollar collapses. I've done without before, I can do without again. it wont be that easy for someone that's never done without
Well, yes and no. Of course the public option is going to be so much better than what the insurance companies currently offer that they will be driven out of the market in no time. But that is just market competition--I don't quite understand people on your side, normally in favor of market forces, being so opposed to competition. But it won't eliminate private insurance--they will start offering supplemental insurance for the rich--what's wrong with that?
By the way, I think you SHOULD be proud of your success. The point is, if you had worked equally hard, but started as the child of a CEO, you'd be worth billions now.
Back to health care, there are only two possible outcomes to a public option--I can't see what's wrong with either. Either 1: the public option does suck, no one will buy it, we end up where we are now. Or 2, it is better than what we have now.
No one wants your pennies. It's the fortunes of the people that never worked a day in their lives that should be shared with the poor. Let everyone START equal, then see what happens.
Part II My father makes millions every year. Private company, employs hundreds of men. Feeds families, pays their health insurance 100%, pays their retirement benefits 100%. That's small business at it's best. I've studied this myself. It lead me to the same conclusions that you say "walking off the bridge." No one lead me here. I studied this myself from ORIGINAL sources.
"If the Republicans are the party of the rich, how do they increase their voting base? "
Yes, exactly they are only making the top 5% rich, there is a lot of money and campaign funds there but not many votes! Greed has got in the way of common sense in the republican party.
I agree with you. But the Republicans if they make only the top rich won't have more votes. They have to raise the level of everyone, by giving them opportunity. Not handing it out. We probably aren't that far apart. I just believe it is the governments responsibility to provide equal opportunity not equal things, or results. That is up to us.
I agree small business are where most jobs are started. As small business grow they become big business then some over paid CEO comes in and starts cutting jobs. As for "too much regulation" I also agree any thing imported back in to the US should have to be made under the same EPA & OSAA standards as here.
What the f&$@ are Wingnuts? Isn't Wingnut an awesome longboarder from Santa Cruz?
schroedel17 2 years ago
@schroedel17 Agree
whitfieldyt 1 year ago
Um, alright. Just one question: with "80% of America" on your side, what exactly is stopping this 80% from making the changes they want to make?
Are you really admitting that this 80% is so incredibly impotent that they can't ignore the crazy 20% long enough to pass the legislation they want?
Or could it be that your numbers are off and you're simplistically lumping anyone who disagrees with your positions into a single group you label as insane?
SuperSexyShine 2 years ago
Why was a census taker in Kentucky hanged with the word "FED" carved in his chest? What if it was wing-nuttery?
1Rennae2 2 years ago
Compare and contrast...
* The gentle, witty, smart video that mocks wingnuts.
* The stident, witless, dumb responses from wingnuts on youtube, that proves the point.
One day a wingnut will realise the irony, and their head will explode.
Art4Noise 2 years ago 2
asswipe
alswebb 2 years ago
truth hurts
spamdango 2 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
what planet is this guy? from who the hell do you think you are speaking for 80%of America where did your stats come from / OUT YOUR ASS . maybe !!!
kellyelainewright61 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
This is a message to the bigoted Leftists who made this -- EVOLVE
ShaytanBozorg 2 years ago
This to you, chill out.
thisisntme 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
STFU, you Leftist piece of shit
ShaytanBozorg 2 years ago
wah you mean leftist. Shut me up bitch.
thisisntme 2 years ago
And if we weren't in the right on the this, the megacorps and the right wing wouldn't need to be so busy spreading stupid, transparent LIES.
daupomatic 2 years ago 2
Why should insurance or hospitals be run as for-profit institutions? It is never good to have a corporation choose between profits for stock-holders and managing the care of the sick.
The Big Scary Gov't you wack-jobs are so afraid of is already caring for our grandparents, and you like it that way. Un-insured and under-insured Americans already cost us collectively a fortune in lost wages, productivity loss, and more, beyond the simple moral imperative we have to provide for one another.
daupomatic 2 years ago 2
How do we pay for the health care?
tonylee1973 2 years ago
less than zero stars.
wheres the birth certificate??
oh he lost it haha
nice transparency.
how is that troop withdrawal coming along?
were are all the jobs??
boy where the hell happened to all those campaign promises. Jump ship obama supporters, he aint worth sinking to the bottom for.
ugotpimp 2 years ago
birth certificatife is in your ass.
Troop withdrawal is coming loser.
thisisntme 2 years ago
Classic example of Kool-aid overdose.
Why wont liberals wake up and stop believing all this white house propaganda.
anybody read the 1300 pages of Legalese health bill ?No? neither did obama. I skimmed it & almost puked at all the pork & totalitarian government involvement in our lives.
Its obamas patriot act. Luckily he will fail.
too bad Bush didnt fail to pass his bill.
Obama heading for fastest failed presidency in american history. enjoy your legacy failure.
ugotpimp 2 years ago
Totally lame video but the pic of Sarah in the bikini was nice.
Thraxter 2 years ago 2
There are a lot of ignorant people in the world, Why don't we just give everything we own to the rich and then kill ourselves? Because thats what you're asking us to do when you expect us to keep giving more power to the dumbasses who screw everything up, and then manage to make things worse when they say they're going to "fix it".
RonaldthePatriot 2 years ago 2
This video is pretty pointless
Johnny3800 2 years ago 2
... how ridiculous - No.. Obama said nothing even similar, and no that isn't in any way what the bill does or intends to do.
First - READ THE BILL rather than getting your synopsis from Glenn beck.
Second - Stop lying.
Third - Don't claim you stand for America.. it's an insult to America.
xnothingbutthetruth 2 years ago
Here's a couple of suggestions for craft projects.
Make a hat out of tin foil. It stimulates the creative part of your brain, keeps your hands busy and protects you from government thought rays.
Build a gun case and shoot some thread sealer into the lock. Again, keeps your hands busy and will prevent the government socialists from taking your guns.
jkruss9999 2 years ago
If you are confused by that section, surely many other people are as well. (It doesn't help that the insurance industry is out-and-out lying to you about it.) I think I am going to polish my message to you a little bit and send it to the Huffington Post, they might like to post it. I'll let you know if they do.
greg5566 2 years ago
Yes, it's unfortunate we can't have this conversation here, but it is too long. I have responded to you explaining what that section does. It can be very complicated if you aren't used to reading bills and laws, but once you see how it works it's actually very simple.
This section is actually quite uncontroversial and good. It simply says that a doctor is free to talk to you about your living will, and INSURANCE WILL PAY FOR THE CONVERSATION. Wow, that is a great addition to health insurance.
greg5566 2 years ago
LMAO!!!
SamariaTV 2 years ago
yes, perhaps. You're long on ad hominem, short on substance, huh? It's interesting how you started the conversation a few days ago by attacking everyone for not reading, for being dumb, etc. I simply asked you to put your money where your mouth is, and you clammed up right quick, huh!
For the fifth time, please cite exactly which sections of the health care bill are troubling to you.
greg5566 2 years ago
Planes leave for venezuela every day- 80% of maybe University of Berkley agree.
wbradss 2 years ago
Ha ha. I guess we uncovered the truth about you, huh? Unfortunately for you, I'm not "too young"--anyone over 18 has the same say in it as you do. I vote, I have a phone to call my congress person.
I thought my law degree might be helpful to you in sorting out the difficult legal language, but obviously you are not interested in actually understanding the bill. Obama is black, he must be evil. Right? That's what you meant to say.
Let me know if you'd like to actually examine the bill.
greg5566 2 years ago
Page 170 Section 6012(a)
(2) NON RESIDENT ALIENS.—
Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual who is a non resident alien.
Just a reminder this is what subsection (a) says
Subpart A—
Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable
Health Care Coverage
So go to Mexico or Canada and denounce your citizenship then come back as a Mexican or Canadian and pay less taxes. And keep your health care
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
Page 110 Section 207 (c)
(C) EXCISE TAX ON FAILURES TO MEET
CERTAIN HEALTH COVERAGE REQUIREMENTS
The amounts received in the Treasury under section 4980H(b) (relating to excise tax with respect to failure to meet health coverage
participation requirements)
If you already have insurance and the government decides its not good enough, youll be taxed for that too.
If this is a public OPTION why are mandatory taxes imposed for non-compliance ?
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
Page 110 Section 207 (b)
(B) EMPLOYMENT TAXES ON EMPLOYERS
NOT PROVIDING ACCEPTABLE COVERAGE
The amounts received in the Treasury under section 3111(c) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to employers electing to not provide health benefits).
If your employer doesnt sign up for government health care your employer will be taxed for it anyway. This raises cost for employers and will cost you your job
If this is a public option why are mandatory taxes imposed for non-compliance
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
Page 71 Section 164 (c)
(iii) LIMITATION TO AVAILABLE FUNDS.—
The Secretary has the authority
to stop taking applications for participation in the program or take such other steps in reducing expenditures under the reinsurance program in order to ensure
that expenditures under the reinsurance
program do not exceed the funds available
under this subsection.
If we run out of money, your out of luck.
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
Page 68 Section 164 (c)
PROGRAM PAYMENTS AND LIMIT.—
If the Secretary determines that a participating employment-based plan has submitted a valid claim under paragraph (1), the Secretary shall reimburse such plan for 80 percent of that portion of the costs attributable to such claim that exceeds $15,000, but is less than $90,000.
This plan will cover you for 80% or $90,000
After that you are no longer covered
so start making funeral arrangements
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
Page 30Section 123 (a)
There is established a private-public advisory committee which shall be a panel of medical and other experts (government) to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits
The Health Benefits Advisory committee will decide what is covered and what is not. If it cost too much, Its not covered.
Bring out your dead !!!!
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
SEC. 1173A. STANDARDIZE ELECTRONIC ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSACTIONS
(D) enable the real-time or near real
time determination of an individuals financial
responsibility at the point of service and, to the
extent possible, prior to service, including
whether the individual is eligible for a specific
service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card
Lets slip this one in since nobody reads the bill
mlkkkkkkk 2 years ago
Just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt mean they are a wing nut.
Is the majority always correct?
Silveracity 2 years ago
Fourth time: please cite for me the exact paragraph you are concerned about. If you are reading it with three other people right now, that should be easy for you to do. Why won't you do that for me? Even if you don't want to talk to me about it, at least let me read it for myself for my own edification.
(By "ecr" do you mean et cetera? That is "etc." [Just for clarification.])
greg5566 2 years ago
Hey--
I'm waiting for your response. I'm really looking forward to reading the bill with you, to have you show me exactly what it says that has you worried, maybe to go over the confusing parts together.
It will be interesting and enlightening for both of us, and might be educational to anyone listening as well. Please write back! (And tell me the exact sections that you are concerned about.)
greg5566 2 years ago
The second is that one of the terms of office for a new "commissioner" hired to implement the plan is five years. After five years she will be replaced.
The third is that if a patient requests an "advanced care consultation," the new plan will pay for one every five years, or more often in certain circumstances. Note it PAYS FOR what the PATIENT REQUESTS. It doesn't require anything.
So, those are the mentions of five years. Again, please point out exactly the sections you are concerned about.
greg5566 2 years ago
I just went through the bill. The time period of five years is only mentioned in three places. One is some very obscure change to the social security law regarding durable medical equipment. (Remember that a bill only changes the language of the current law--you can't understand it without looking at the existing law as well to see what changed. For instance, one provision of H.R. 3200 is "change 'greater' to 'lesser'" What does THAT mean? You need to read the law it is modifying to understand.)
greg5566 2 years ago
Uh-oh, I'm a little concerned now. This will make the THIRD time I have asked you to tell me which sections you are reading that have you concerned.
Three times? It's starting to look an awful lot like you haven't read anything, and for some reason everything you're saying is a lie (I can't fathom why).
So please, for the third time, which sections are you reading that have you concerned? Be specific--don't name an entire 200-page section. Give me the language that concerns you.
greg5566 2 years ago
I have my own story of the absurd stupidity of the current system that I won't bore you with now--it will also be taken care of by a simple computer system under the new plan.
So when you say all businesses and individuals must enroll, be careful what you mean. That doesn't mean you must change your current insurance. Not at all. It only means (I need to read it first) that everyone needs to HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE in five years: exactly what he promised--everyone will be covered.
greg5566 2 years ago
Remember, for instance, that part of the health care reform is going to be to streamline the paperwork, so that you will be able to go into any doctor anywhere without trouble. Right now, my mom is having trouble with her back. She had to get an MRI, then she had to physically take the film to her doctor! How insane and backward is that? With the new HC plan, it will all be streamlined so you won't have to go through BS like that anymore.
greg5566 2 years ago
Give me the citations to the parts that concern you. Let's read it together. It will be fun, and two heads are surely better than one, and with the text in front of us it is likely one of us will be able to show the other exactly where they are mistaken.
greg5566 2 years ago
But whatever the medicare reforms are,they are improvements.
If you will tell me the sections that you are reading that you are worried about, I would be happy to read them too. Legislation is VERY difficult for a lay person to understand. It simply doesn't say things like "people get to keep their medicare."
It's taken experts 60 years to write this legislation; the chances of you understanding it properly on a first reading, especially with the likes of Rush whispering in your ear, are slim.
greg5566 2 years ago
I looked over the table of contents this morning after writing to you. One part of the bill pertains to improvements to medicare. (Before you let that scare you, remember that a stated goal of the GOP is to destroy medicare. It is a poster child for everything that the GOP thinks is wrong with liberalism. Democrats are responsible for your medicare as it is now--if it were up to the GOP it would already be gone.)
greg5566 2 years ago
The WORST thing that can happen to anyone in Obama's plan is they stay exactly where they are. In addition, the millions and millions and millions who are forced into private insurance, or have no coverage at all have another option.
Don't you know it is a STATED GOAL of the GOP to eliminate medicare? How can you really believe Obama wants to eliminate medicare? You can't possibly really believe that. It is utterly absurd.
greg5566 2 years ago
You don't have to deal with insurance companies. All I want is the same opportunity to have government-run health care that you have.
But in addition, Obama's health care plan does NOTHING to your existing care. All it does is give people an additional OPTION to buy health care with guaranteed benefits, at a reasonable price.
greg5566 2 years ago
Would you mind talking to me for a minute, seriously?
Obama's goal is to make sure 100% of the people have insurance. So everything you say here about _anyone_ not being insured is not true. Why do you think it is? How can you really believe he would take away medicare? He wants to EXPAND medicare to provide it to everyone, not just seniors.
Is it true you are on medicare? The healthcare you are happy with is medicare? That is government run health care! And OF COURSE you like it!
greg5566 2 years ago
If your insurance co has a good policy and will follow the new laws within this bill, you get to keep it..plan and simple...end of story. What are the new rules? They can't dump you for preexisting conditions and they can't refuse to pay for treatments doctors order. They can't adjust your payments but once a year. On the other hand, you can move on, once a year to a better or cheaper or more coverage insurance.
Boomer1949 2 years ago
Where in the plan does it refer to Medicare going away? I've read the bill and I must have missed that, can you point me to the sec?
I do understand that if you qualify for Medicare, you would not be included in an exchange plan, for low and moderate income people. but on the other hand, if what you say about Medicare being phased out, wouldn't it be better to allow people into the exchange now?
Boomer1949 2 years ago
Conservatives rely on lies for support. Obviously if their bullshit is shown for what it is they would never get votes, so they need to keep their base even dumber than it has already become. They incite them with fear with misleading talking points, and use this mass ignorance to demonize opponents.
ProgressiveAction10 2 years ago
Excellent Vid. - Especially like the folksy Pepperidge Farm Narration.
BillOReillySux 2 years ago
Slow the F@#$ down? Tell your Congresspeople that. They're the ones shoving this bill down our throats. The last I checked, 70% of Americans were happy with their health coverage. I thought the President was supposed to represent 'the people'? Funny how you only cry out 'majoriy' and 'democracy' when it suits your agenda.
pheistychick 2 years ago
NO ONE is "happy" with their health coverage. Are you frikking kidding me?! The only people who are happy with their health coverage are those who have never gone to the doctor.
It doesn't matter why I go--for me, most recently, to get vaccinations for school--any visit to a doctor will result in YEARS of arguments with them about who is going to pay.
Satisfied with their health coverage? Give me a fucking break.
greg5566 2 years ago
Uh...It's the 'wingnuts' who are trying to get people to stop killing people.
thetruthergirls 2 years ago
That's the delusion by which they justify killing people.
It's a scam as old as St. Augustine.
Stranahan 2 years ago
So, who exactly is killing anyone-besides your government with their stupid wars, mandatory vaccines, and now this atrocious 'health care reform' bill that rations cancer treatment and requires permission from the State for 'life extending treatment' such as antibiotics and IV fluids?
Have you even READ Obama's bill?
You get told on the news that some old guy who went postal was a fan of Alex Jones and you decide anyone who opposes anything the government pushes is a terrorist.
thetruthergirls 2 years ago
Wow, the second comment from the top proves the point of the video. Do you even realize there are several bills? If you've read the bill, as implied by your question, where are the provisions you claim are there? How about a section, a quote, a URL? Or are you afraid to discover you've been taken in by insurance company lies?
webcelt 2 years ago
I live in Canada, where we have socialized health care and I'm all for it. Butthere is no *rationing* of things like cancer care here, and you don't need a doctor to give you permission for life-extending care (defined as including antibiotics and IV fluids) every 5 years in accordance with guidelines dictated by the State. Go to THOMAS search engine, look up that bill and read the PDF version esp. pages 424-427.
thetruthergirls 2 years ago
Wait, this is BS. It's not possible for someone who lives in Canada to be this grossly misinformed and this fired up about it.
This is what I don't understand in what you're saying: currently 40 million Americans don't have health insurance. If you DO have health ins., Obama's plan does nothing but force ins. cos. to pay your bills as they promised they will.
If you DON'T have health ins., than Obama will provide it to you. How is having health ins. "rationing" what you don't otherwise have?
greg5566 2 years ago
America has problems with health insurance, and sure they need reform, but I read this bill and it's CRAZY! No wonder people are showing up at town meetings freaking out on their representatives. If this gets passed, everyone will regret it, even more than the stimulus bill and all the rest.
And like I said, I'm Canadian and I'm all for our system, but our system doesn't ration care or put the government in charge of deciding who gets it and who doesn't. We all get it, as much as we need.
thetruthergirls 2 years ago
Oh, you've actually read the bill? Would you mind pointing out to me, then, exactly the provisions you think are crazy?
(I'm amazed you would take the time to read a 1000-page piece of legislation. I'm sure you've never read your insurance agreement or your banking agreement. Why would you? Those corporations won't be dishonest.)
Anyway, please point out exactly the parts you don't like, so I can read them too. (Since the plan expands coverage, not rations it, I think you're misreading it.)
greg5566 2 years ago
By murdering people like Tiller?
jodnl 2 years ago
to be fair, WBC are Democrats not Republicans
CarryANationIII 2 years ago
Another great video Mr. Stranahan!!
You are clearly a voice of reason. The sad part is that I want those to be mischaracterizations of the Republican party, but they really are becoming the right-wing nuts of stereotype folklore. It's not good for the country or our image.
cathlicscholboy4life 2 years ago
I'm sorry you don't believe in people being able to be angry with their representatives, or that it is right for them to voice opinions, tainted or not (isn't that what lobbyists do on the hill already?).
I'm sorry you believe there is only one solution to this issue and cannot see past the left rhetoric of, "just trust me, I'll take care of it, you don't worry or think about it, or have an opinion of any sort other than what I tell you".
Yes, we need change, but not rammed down our throats.
rookshunter 2 years ago
Hanging in effigy isn't 'voicing an opnion'
Disrupting a meeting isn't 'voiving an opinion'
Chasing people while chanting the Pledge Of Alligience isn't 'voicing an opinion'.
Stranahan 2 years ago
Actually, yes it is. On all three points.
Is it the most constructive way to communicate? No.
Is it the most effective? Probably not.
Does it even get their point across? Hmm, yes and no.
People should NEVER be silenced just b/c you don't wanna hear it, or don't agree.
Would you want to be prevented from protesting at a Peace rally?
College students burn the flag all the time over really stupid issues. Do we lock them up and say "no more voice for you!"
That is tyranny plain and simple.
rookshunter 2 years ago
"People should never be silenced just b/c you don't wanna hear it"
So you agree, those screaming at the town hall meetings should be forced to leave, as they are denying Americans' right to free speech?
greg5566 2 years ago
Nope, they should not be "forced" to leave.
Lets follow this through. You want to force American citizens to leave, just because they are angry/upset and want their voices heard, just so that other Americans can be heard and the first group left out w/o their claims being heard???
When do we stop, when all the dissenting voices are gone??
Even Hilary Clinton knows that getting your voice heard sometimes takes some effort. Search Youtube for:
I Am Sick And Tired - Hillary Clinton
rookshunter 2 years ago
You said, "people should never be silenced," yet that is exactly what the screamers are doing.
I think everyone should be heard, I never said anything different. All I advocate is simple, civil rules of discourse, same as in Congress. Each person gets 5 minutes, or 2 minutes, or whatever is fair. No one else talks during that time. Anyone who interrupts is forced to leave.
What could possibly be wrong with that? When everyone yells no one is heard. If people wait their turn, everyone will be.
greg5566 2 years ago
I don't think there's anything wrong w/ that proposal, except forcing people to leave. Yeah, it would be nice if everything was perfect and orderly, but this is America, and real life, since when have we ever done anything quietly?
Seriously, forcing people to leave only makes things worse. Congressmen getting upset at constituents compound the problem, search youtube for:
Congressman David Scott Angry Tirade
Even when people are peaceful and orderly like you suggest they STILL aren't heard.
rookshunter 2 years ago
No, you're wrong about that. There are maybe 100 people in an audience? (I don't know.) A few loud people who have no interest in debate or hearing what the reform is about can prevent 100 people from hearing about it. Removing the disrupters would allow hundreds more people to talk about the issue. The disrupters aren't interested in the topic anyway (seen my conversation with "standforamerica"?
greg5566 2 years ago
In case you're not aware of this,the disrupters are NOT Americans.What they are is shills for the corporate interests whose profits will be taken away by a health care system that actually works.
It's true these people aren't paid by the insurance industry, but they are too stupid to even listen to what the bill says. A death panel? Somehow Obama is BOTH fascist and socialist? These people have nothing to contribute. Any senator would be HAPPY to EXPLAIN the bill to anyone who wanted to hear.
greg5566 2 years ago
What are you talking about? I just listened to Hillary--she was exactly right. She should be heard. No one said differently. So why are the screamers preventing people from talking? Get rid of the two or three who are disruptive, and suddenly 50 people can be heard. Then go in the other room and listen to the disrupters. What's wrong with that?
You claim to be for freedom of speech but you are advocating exactly the opposite.
greg5566 2 years ago
Its fairly apparent you don't care about actually debating people as other posts you've made to others are how they are wrong and you re-educating them on your beliefs. I'll say my peace one more time, then I'm done. Search youtube for:
Congressman David Scott Angry Tirade
(actually do it this time)
The doctor talking to him WAS polite, and DID waited his turn. It was when the floor was open to any topic.
The Congressman was the one berating his constituents. Its called a NO WIN situation.
rookshunter 2 years ago
you seem to still have freedom of speech
dejahthoris 2 years ago
As do you.
I pray to God we can keep it.
rookshunter 2 years ago
Rooks: libel and inciting people to riot are also against the law, but that is what they are doing. It's a matter of time before one of these mobs kills someone.
dejahthoris 2 years ago
Libel is a serious charge, and it would be wise not to sling allegations unless you have proof.
Hmm, a riot. The only violence I've seen so far is when SEIU members attacked someone for handing out pamphlets.
I've seen people that are shouting that they are not being heard, I've seen lots of politicians and reps. that start out with leading statements, and I've heard chanting like "read the bill" and as stated above, the Pledge of Allegiance. I guess some people are offended by patriotism.
rookshunter 2 years ago
I wonder when the Republicans are going to have Town Halls on Health care, and listen to people and open up a discussion on the subject? People are being heard at these meetings. I used to be a Republican, but now I am a centrist, as are most people in this country. I am also a Patriot, and have no issue with unions, As far as Libel, yes the health insurance companies are spreading lies to create fear about any kind of health care reform, which our country needs. The French model is top notch.
dejahthoris 2 years ago
Better re-watch the video, the wingnuts had a union guy on the ground beating him...
blacksnakeable 2 years ago
Priceless Lee!
I LOVE this. I'm still laughing. Nice job!
hostingdude 2 years ago
Part of the problem for the right wing nutjobs is they have no one to believe in right now. Look at W. He gave them a black or white view of the world. Republicans don't have the mental reasoning to comprehend anything outside of the box.
thundergunn 2 years ago
Obama lovers are slowly becoming a minority.
bojan78 2 years ago
Republicans and democrats are all the SAME. NWO
Fockersnextdoor 2 years ago
I love this crap! first we have Bush. Illegal wars, 911 ( still don't Know what the truth actually is but if you believe the 911 commission report...... let's just say this needs to be reopened), Halburton, antipatriot act, & Bailouts while the "R"s are pissing they're pants over Terrorism & Liberals scream foul play. now, under Obama, we have bailouts (of the top 5% rich, Goldman sachs) Corrupt Appointee's, Questionable Birth certificate, a dollar that's crashing......
davidpark68 2 years ago
while the "D"s are chasing Health care the conservatives are screaming foul play. & You want to call People like me Crazy? if you want to define Crazy first Define the Norm. if the Norm is listening to the Government Propaganda, forget it, I'll stay Crazy
davidpark68 2 years ago
Your defending the same Type of BS you were Fighting against just a year ago. what "change" did we get? for those of you that are saying Give him time, how much time do you need to finally say "this is BS"
davidpark68 2 years ago
Well, we just have to see what happens with health care. If we don't get health care reform, or if we get "reform" without a public option, then Obama will have failed. And republicans will no longer have to worry about attacking the Democrats in office, because America will do it for them.
greg5566 2 years ago
Wait, by "people like me" you mean you don't believe Obama was born in America? You believe health care reform is going to kill old people? You think Sarah Palin makes sense?
If that's what you mean by "like me," then you ARE crazy--or at least unfathomably stupid.
(Oh, the norm is people who can connect concepts logically, are able to recognize logical contradictions, are able to recognize reality as separate from racist ideology, etc.)
greg5566 2 years ago
1) to end the questions & re unite the people, why don't he just release his records to the public? if that's what it takes to end this.
2) I believe the bill being proposed is too vague in meaning & has so much legal jargon in it NOBODY can understand it & that in itself should be grounds to question it (I understand Obama didn't write it)
3) you think I'm a republican? you assume too much
then by your own admission you are crazy because the logical concept of freedom escapes you
davidpark68 2 years ago
I myself have seen Obama's birth certificate two dozen times on tv. Is your tv broken?
greg5566 2 years ago
what you've seen was the same thing I have, basically a receipt saying I have a birth certificate
davidpark68 2 years ago
again why bring up race? did anything I said have anything to do with race? this is a favorite defensive strategy of democrats to make the opposition back down - Fail
davidpark68 2 years ago
I would never expect a racist to back down for being called racist. It is just the truth, and a way to explain the utter illogic of your position.
Of course there are really three kinds of republicans:
1) Those the GOP benefits--those making over $500K a year.
2) Those who make a lot, who are being sucked dry by the GOP but lack any morality, so worry more about the small amount of money they should share rather than the money being stolen from above.
3) the ignorant, racist masses.
greg5566 2 years ago
again assuming I'm a republican.
your a democrat right? did you Know you have a Known member of the KKK in your party? do you know it was southern democrats that wanted to keep blacks slaves? keep towing that party line for obama, he'll cut you in on some of that goldman sachs money - not
davidpark68 2 years ago
I have two questions I would be appreciative if you could answer:
1) what in the world is a "long form" birth certificate? Had you ever heard of such a thing before the birthers made it up?
2) OBAMA'S MOTHER IS AMERICAN. It doesn't matter where he was born, anyone born of an American is American--that's what it means to be natural-born. What do you disagree with about that?
Thank you for your time--I'm asking you seriously.
greg5566 2 years ago
I believe what is being asked for is the original birth certificate, yes I heard of it because I have a short form myself, Mine got burnt up in a fire, it is a certificate stating I am a citizen, but it is not my birth certificate
by your definition he is an American citizen. the question is about him being a natural born citizen.
davidpark68 2 years ago
I would never expect a racist to believe he's racist. It's far too deep and insidious for that. It would be next to impossible even to get you to see it. Read, say, Henry Louis Gates, for a much better explanation.
greg5566 2 years ago
lol, nice
sisforshayla 2 years ago
Ha! That's great! Nice work, Mr. Stranahan!
jaywillie77 2 years ago
Very creative and hard hitting! *****
blkjp 2 years ago
If I feel sane, and 80% of the people think I'm crazy (and where on earth are you getting that number?) I ill stand my ground. I will not walk off the bridge like a lemming, just because other people disagree.
jbsmith2007 2 years ago
But you are "walking off the bridge" because of people like you we have no middle class. Because of the republicans the transfer of wealth went from the middle to the top five percent, if trickle down worked why don't we have jobs, do you really think the CEO's earn 15 or 20 million a year, that used to be your wages. How many jobs did they ship overseas to get those millions. Wake up! you've been had!
Rich1598 2 years ago 3
I am middle class. If the Democrats are the party of the poor, how do they increase their voting populace? By making them poor. If the Republicans are the party of the rich, how do they increase their voting base? BY MAKING THEM WEALTHY. Or having the chance to. Overseas jobs have gone because of too much regulation, and too much taxes.
jbsmith2007 2 years ago
"If the Democrats are the party of the poor, how do they increase their voting populace? By making them poor."
You just made it clear you can't be taken seriously.
integral 2 years ago
According to our founders it is their job to create opportunity, not create equal things. I think the Republicans are off track as well, but that's why our grassroots efforts need to take hold, and we need to take our country back to the people where it belongs.
jbsmith2007 2 years ago
No no no, republicans get votes by playing to voters' racist fears and stupidity.
greg5566 2 years ago
What would give you any indication RACE has anything to do with anything. I've never made a racial comment at all. I'm not stupid, but I believe differently than you do. I'm not a racist. I think ALL men are created equal. Everyone has the right to make something of themselves. All are God's children, no exceptions. How do republicans get votes based on racial fears? You have it wrong. We are peace-loving, freedom-loving people. I believe in individual rights.
jbsmith2007 2 years ago
I'll bet if we dug in about 2 inches below the surface, what you mean when you say "I believe in individual rights," is that welfare makes people lazy. Don't even bother to answer.
If you believed in equal rights and individual rights, you would know that equal "rights" without equal opportunity is nonsensical. What you mean is you believe in your own right to keep your own privilege, even though you had an unfair head start.
greg5566 2 years ago
Sorry, bothering to answer. The governments responsibility is to provide equal rights (or opportunity) not equal things. How on earth can you say I had an unfair head start? Everything I have I have earned. I worked, I protected my credit, I was wise with my purchases, and I give to charity in proportion to my earnings. There is a huge place for welfare, but not from the government. If each city and county and state handled these things with their own money, we would eliminate gov. waste.
jbsmith2007 2 years ago
You grew up in a ghetto? In a public school where the kids carried guns? Did you have both parents? How often did you hear gunfire out your window as you were growing up?
Fair head start indeed.
Something that eludes people like you is that the government IS the people--it is US deciding what to do with OUR resources. If you don't like it, you can vote, or leave.
(Of course I mean well-run gov't programs that have not been sabotaged by the republicans in order to claim they don't work.)
greg5566 2 years ago
We can't help that you had a hard life, if your looking for sympathy, we feel bad for you. what are you doing to improve yourself? Keep blaming Whitey, you'll go far
davidpark68 2 years ago
face it, your a black man with a chip on his shoulder blaming the white man for everything wrong with your life, you take responsibility for nothing,. just by your comments I can see through your race baiting, you hate whitey. therefore you've become what you hate - a racist
davidpark68 2 years ago
Was this directed at me? Are you the one who claimed you're not racist? You just accused me of being black! You have absolutely nothing to base that on except that I am not beholden to whites. Your reasoning seems to be: "Let's see, if he were white, he would, like me, believe that whites should not have to help blacks. He thinks differently, so he must be black."
You claim you're not racist?!?!?!
greg5566 2 years ago
OF COURSE YOU CAN HELP, that's the entire point. Your immoral belief is that you shouldn't have to help, even though all your privilege was built on the backs of those less privileged.
wtf do you mean you "can't" help? Tax those who steal, use it to build better schools, better homes, better lives for the underprivileged. You'll find in no time that the truth is blacks, Latinos, etc. are every bit as smart, and suddenly your privilege will disappear. (see, e.g., Sotomayor.)
greg5566 2 years ago
Your immoral belief is that you are owed something. I helped long enough, it's time for people to start doing for themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if this has the totally opposite effect of what you were hoping for. not only are people PISSED about what your asking for, PISSED you are asking for more, they're questioning what you already receive. too many people have taken the "hand up" & turned it into a way of life.
davidpark68 2 years ago
obama has not only created resentment between the Races but also between the classes, makes me wonder if it wasn't intentional.
davidpark68 2 years ago
ha ha ha. It's so funny that I knew before you said a word exactly what you thought, and you have proven me to be exactly right.
No one owes me anything; I've had more than enough opportunity. I'm not so self-centered as to think that someone growing up in the situations I described would be able to succeed as easily as I have.
The point is you believe you deserve your privilege. No one deserves privilege. Everyone deserves opportunity. Not hand-outs. Opportunity.
greg5566 2 years ago
Still a fail, what is my Privilege? to work? are you under the assumption there's a secret white employment place that I go to get a Job? if anything it would be the opposite. you demonstrate why you haven't succeeded in your answers, you have a chip on your shoulder & nobody wants to deal with you. become a member of society or don't, It's your choice. but if you fail it's your own fault.
davidpark68 2 years ago
Your questions are rhetorical or stupid.
What is your privilege? You tell me. Describe your schooling. Describe the neighborhood where you grew up, your home life, etc. It's either more privileged than the most underprivileged in our society or it's not.
Is it or not? Don't debate with me in the abstract, am I right or not?
greg5566 2 years ago
your a Joke, I can't believe you believe your own bull. the people you need to blame are your parents for your environment. I will make my point clearly, I came from a poor white family, we lived in fishtown PA, probably not far from you. the neighborhood went to hell so my parents moved to a shack in the NJ suburbs. now, go slap your folks for not doing the same or man up & change your situation. you are pathetic & you deserve the life you choose. I would hardly call this a debate.
davidpark68 2 years ago
You mean fishtown, the suburb of Philadelphia? Jesus, I that IS not far from me!
You don't hear so good. I've said many times I'm not talking about myself. I have had more privilege than anyone needs, and have added to it with my own ambition.
Of course we only have your word for it that your family was "poor"--most _poor_ people don't have the resources to pick up and move. Still if you grew up in a public school in Phila., that is no easy task. . . .
greg5566 2 years ago
well the house we moved to cost $7,000 in 1969. like I said it was more of a shack then a mansion.but it served it's purpose. actually it is the reason I became successful, Poverty Sucks. It's also the reason I'm hard on anyone who depends on government rather the do for themselves. it should also be incentive for you to be pushing others that were like you to follow your lead, assuming you bettered yourself by working your way out of your bad situation.
davidpark68 2 years ago
yes fishtown PA, Know any of the Babli's?
davidpark68 2 years ago
BTW my word is good, I hide nothing, my screen name is my name & DOB
davidpark68 2 years ago
You may be one of the few people who actually did rise above your beginnings,and are simply an asshole.
I wonder what you mean by "went to hell" . . . hmm. Question: how many black families does it take to send a neighborhood to hell?
Again, if your family felt the neighborhood went to hell and moved, they were hardly as poor as the poorest among us.
But if you really did rise above your humble beginnings, then I apologize for being wrong about you. You are the exception that proves the rule.
greg5566 2 years ago
I may be an asshole but I'm a self supported, self made asshole with health Insurance that I work for. there's many that rise above, I'm not the only one. you make it sound like it's something out of reach. we moved because of the theft & violence, if you want to associate crime with race go ahead. regardless of how poor we were the Question remains the same.Why are you (not you specifically) Poor? & who's to blame? what are you doing about it?
davidpark68 2 years ago
Let me ask you, and think about this seriously before you answer:
Let's say we had 100% tax on inheritance. Would that be unfair to anyone? _who_? Would it be unfair to you, who earned the money? Why? You're dead. Would it be unfair to your children? Why? It's no more their money than it is my money.
Where do you get this idea that wealth should transfer from one generation to the next. Ask yourself seriously--on what are you basing that belief?
greg5566 2 years ago
By the way, one more thing. The POINT is, you had to fight twenty times as hard for whatever you have accomplished than the child of some bank CEO. How is that equal opportunity? WHY should you have to work twenty times harder than some other kid in the US for whatever you accomplish? I'll bet you never accomplish one tenth as much as the children of CEOs do--why? Because they STARTED 99 yards ahead of you in the 100-yard race. . . .
greg5566 2 years ago
My point is I don't or didn't Blame anyone who has Succeeded for my failure or success. I could never justify taking money from them that I didn't earn. I understand there will always be classes of people & you choose your class by your actions.if a CEO's child is Rich because the CEO earned the money then the child deserves the money by birthright. who are we to take it from them. it's not "unfair" to you but to me also, I just don't view it as unfair. the money was earned then passed on.
davidpark68 2 years ago
it's Equal opportunity because your parents could have done the same. my parents could have done the same. I think you have a problem with your outlook on life. Do the Best that you can & don't worry about other people if it doesn't effect you. I can't change your outlook on life. I can only live my life by my beliefs & so far my beliefs have taken me pretty far.
davidpark68 2 years ago
They laugh at your pride in your success.
There is an ENORMOUS logical hole in your reasoning. You should keep what YOU make? Sure, within reason. How does that translate to your children should keep what you make? Unearned inheritance is _the_ thing that keeps people from having equal opportunity in this country.
"There will always be classes, and you choose your class." That's exactly the point: you don't. You'll never be allowed into one of their country clubs, no matter how hard you work.
greg5566 2 years ago
You don't blame anyone--that is exactly what is so honestly sad about people like you. You're like a retarded person in the Special Olympics who is proud for completing the 100-yard dash in under 2 minutes. Sure, for what you started with you did well. But the point is you're not retarded; you're as capable as anyone. Yet the rich in this country are making you run the race with both arms and legs tied behind you, and blind-folded, while they hire someone to run for them. . . .
greg5566 2 years ago
What is so truly heart-wrenching about conversations like this is that you are more proud of the extremely mild success you have had than angry about how hard you had to work to achieve a tiny fraction of what the privileged will have.
All I want---for YOU and everyone like you and those less privileged than you--is for you to have the same OPPORTUNITY as anyone else. What in the world is wrong with that?! You're protective of the pennies that you have--no one wants them!
greg5566 2 years ago
Your right, I'm proud of my mild success. if you want a little justice to all this, just think of how hard it must be for the child of a CEO to sustain a lifestyle that he didn't create,or how hard it will be for them if the dollar collapses. I've done without before, I can do without again. it wont be that easy for someone that's never done without
davidpark68 2 years ago
it goes way beyond the few pennies of tax dollars, this proposed will lead to a single payer system.
davidpark68 2 years ago
Well, yes and no. Of course the public option is going to be so much better than what the insurance companies currently offer that they will be driven out of the market in no time. But that is just market competition--I don't quite understand people on your side, normally in favor of market forces, being so opposed to competition. But it won't eliminate private insurance--they will start offering supplemental insurance for the rich--what's wrong with that?
greg5566 2 years ago
By the way, I think you SHOULD be proud of your success. The point is, if you had worked equally hard, but started as the child of a CEO, you'd be worth billions now.
Back to health care, there are only two possible outcomes to a public option--I can't see what's wrong with either. Either 1: the public option does suck, no one will buy it, we end up where we are now. Or 2, it is better than what we have now.
I cannot see the downside.
greg5566 2 years ago
No one wants your pennies. It's the fortunes of the people that never worked a day in their lives that should be shared with the poor. Let everyone START equal, then see what happens.
greg5566 2 years ago
Part II My father makes millions every year. Private company, employs hundreds of men. Feeds families, pays their health insurance 100%, pays their retirement benefits 100%. That's small business at it's best. I've studied this myself. It lead me to the same conclusions that you say "walking off the bridge." No one lead me here. I studied this myself from ORIGINAL sources.
jbsmith2007 2 years ago
"If the Republicans are the party of the rich, how do they increase their voting base? "
Yes, exactly they are only making the top 5% rich, there is a lot of money and campaign funds there but not many votes! Greed has got in the way of common sense in the republican party.
Rich1598 2 years ago
I agree with you. But the Republicans if they make only the top rich won't have more votes. They have to raise the level of everyone, by giving them opportunity. Not handing it out. We probably aren't that far apart. I just believe it is the governments responsibility to provide equal opportunity not equal things, or results. That is up to us.
jbsmith2007 2 years ago
The top % of rich are the puppet masters of the masses. (hope I'm not being too metaphorical :-)
sunnyallthetime 2 years ago
I agree small business are where most jobs are started. As small business grow they become big business then some over paid CEO comes in and starts cutting jobs. As for "too much regulation" I also agree any thing imported back in to the US should have to be made under the same EPA & OSAA standards as here.
Rich1598 2 years ago
Never seen that Sarah Palin in a Bikini picture before.
Occono 2 years ago
That's because it's a photoshop job.
jbsmith2007 2 years ago
Thanks, I'm a big idiot like that :)
Occono 2 years ago
...and please stop killing people. LMAO!
DaveLister360 2 years ago
Excellent! *****
zndprophet 2 years ago
never heard it put that way well played sir.
DgenerateX91 2 years ago 2