@chapmasi Yes... That And when he called for "Shi-elds!" just Before the Subspace-wave hit... Some might fault his acting but..Even now, I think those are 'good moments'.. Both really 'put me there'! I've play alot of games; StarFleet Command 2(orion pirates w/eye3's modtool) comes to mind & Bridge Commander(I still host a server!). And the way he acts in relation to Star Trek: It really "Puts me there". I'm Glad he cameo'd in this Ep! I think It's Season 3 - Episode 2 "Flashback"
@mrteemumilto Aye... I tend to agree that here in America; We not be taught(In fact Discouraged even!) the value of logic and proper Discourse. If only we were encourage to think & Reason :) But as an episode of The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones said: "Society doesn't want men whom arrive at their Convictions; it want servants." "ppl wish to be servants since it Relieves them of responsibility to make Hard Choices; like Ethical Decisions." Chk it out
@glytchd And the Japanese have some of the ability =) It happens that Finland doesn't encourage independent and critical thought either, even though the establishment uses the pretense of democracy. Another analogy is the stupid students, who have been taught not to defy the peer groups. We truly live in a dictatorship.
Captain James Tiberius Kirk was the best god damned captain in all of Starfleet. He took the Enterprise and rammed it down their throats whenever he saw fit to do so. Whenever the Federation was in trouble...which ship did they call upon to bail them out and kick some ass??? The USS Enterprise...no bloody A,B,C or D!!!!
@UncleMikeNJ Agreed, that is one hell of a Kirk speech. Where were these guys when Picard let Worf get screwed by the Klingon High Council in "Sins of the Father?" Honestly. Kirk would've invoked General Order 24 and barbecued Q'onos til Duras and his house had their heads impaled on stakes.
This is the episode that made me realize Voyager was full of fail and could only be entertaining if they copied older, more successful iterations of Star Trek. It had less to do with nostalgia and more to do with desperately trying to attract viewers.
Those of us who disliked Janeway have no issues with women being in charge; we're just concerned about incompetent psychotic loons in charge. For the record, I have *no* issues with Kate Mulgrew, a fine actress who I'm sure could have played Janeway as a sane professional *if* the writers had only brought that up in the character.
@AndythePervert Incompetent psychotic loons? Oh, you mean like Sisko, who rendered an entire planet uninhabitable just to get back at ONE renegade crewmember, and who randomly punches people out just for the hell of it? Oh, how about like Archer, who attacks a ship just to steal a warp coil, after pontificating about not doing anything to betray his humanity. Or, good ol' Jean Luc, self-righteous hypocritical bastard that he was, who told Data he
@williamskidfears just had to let his pen pal fucking die along with her race, told his crew to just shoot half Borga-tized crew members cause they'd being doing them a favor, even after his crew risked their necks to save his ass from the same fate, just callously blew up a collector thingy and let the bad guy alien burn, preached at Spock about how wrong he was to simply practice "cowboy diplomacy" and try to reunite his race and the Roms, instead of "blindly following orders," like a good
@williamskidfears 24th century Starfleet drone, who stomped on Wesley for not letting the Indians on Indian Planet get screwed over by the Feds and beat down by the Cardies, but was willing to resign his commission and save the Baku all for a bit of skirt.
Just admit it Trekkies, you have no issues with dem darkies, as long as dey be good lil darkies and wear dem miniskirts, go-go boots, fishnets and spankies and tell ol' Massa Kirk just how scared dey is.
@williamskidfears How does making one Maquis homeworld uninhabitable by humans make him psychotic. It wasn't some necessary planet, no lives were lost, and it was the quickest/only way of capturing a TERRORIST LEADER. And what do you mean he punches people out for the hell of it?
You better believe it. Oh Sulu ~ I love George Takei. Which is good, because one day, when I least expect it, he WILL have sex with me. Or not, cos' I'm a girl. Whatever.
Janeway is a moron...You did the right thing???? Obviously she has no sense of loyality whatsoever lol, I wish Harry wouldve shot her in the back with a phaser...Man, I HATE Voyager!
Had Janeway been in charge during the events of Undiscovered Country, Kirk and Bones would have been killed on Rura Penthe, The Enterprise would have been destroyed, the Federation President would have been assassinated, War would have broken out between factions of Klingons and starfleet hawks, leaving them weakened for invasion from the Romulans.
@kev3d Rubbish! Janeway is a natural rule-breaker and maverick! She's only consoling Tuvok at the end but she overrode him on a number of occasions on Voyager when he was being typically Vulcanish in his "we must stick to the rules" mentality.
@eugene1 Why console a full blooded Vulcan? They have no feelings to harm, no egos to brusie. Janeway is a bureaucratic fool. Her greatest accomplishment before getting lost was following immoral and short-sighted orders in pursuing the Maquis.
@kev3d Janeway consoled Tuvok several times in the series, I guess that's friendship. In criticising Janeway for pursuing the Marquis, are you also then criticising Picard who went after them in the ep 'Preemptive Strike' & Sisko who went after them big time in many eps? And Janeway is the least bureaucratic captain of all; merging with the marquis, violating people's space, making a deal with the borg, getting deliberately assimilated & violating the temporal & prime directives several times!
@eugene1 Yes, Picard and Sisko were wrong in their pursuit of the Maquis, Sisko and Janeway in particular because the Maquis' just motives and Cardassian abuses were well known by that time. Janeway is the worst kind of hypocrite; she ignores or abuses the rules when it serves her own needs, but when it is convenient, she claims the moral high ground. She was a terribly written character for a terribly written series.
@kev3d Ouch! Terribly written character for a terribly written series? Damn, Voyager had its faults, no doubt, plus there were annoying inconsistencies among the characters at times, but I felt Kate Mulgrew was a fantastic actress who really imbued Janeway with great humanity and depth. Surely there were episodes that brought a tear to your eye or made you laugh or really think; Distant Origin (Dinosaurs), Death Wish (Suicidal Q), Scorpion pt 1&2, Living Witness (700 yrs in future)?
@eugene1 Death Wish perhaps, but that's only because the Q are so interesting. Most of Voy was rehashed from TNG ,DS9 and even some TOS, such as The Doctor's quest to be accepted as a being with rights, Data did the same. Enterprise D had holodeck hijinx, so did Voy, Picard was assimilated, so was 7 of 9, The Enterprise was also thrust into unknown space, TOS had a Mirror Universe, TNG had a multiverse including a "hell" universe and so on.
@eugene1 Now for what Voy offered as original, it was rather paltry. Female captain? Big deal. TNG had female Admirals. The annoying Neelix? The whiny Kes? The unfunny Doctor? Even Paris, Tuvok, Torres and Kim are really cookie cutter characters with either no depth at all, or borrowed characteristics from other, better characters. After all, who's Tuvok compared to Spock's complexity? Kim to Sulu's (eventual) leadership? Chakotay to Riker's charisma? And Paris? Well Paris just sucks.
@kev3d C'mon now, George Takei is one of the most wooden actors I've seen. Garret Wang as Harry Kim was way better. All you need to do is watch the above scene for proof. Naturally Spock would have more complexity as he's half human. Wesley Crusher, Quark, Neelix, Dr Phlox; each series has its irritating character. Kes never whined or complained ever - I challenge you to name an ep where she did plus she was phenomenal in the ep Warlord. Chakotay was more dignified than Riker. Ok Paris did suck!
@eugene1 Did you watch the clip above? Takei is great. And bear in mind TOS was on for only 3 seasons so there was less opportunity for the characters to develop (Uhura and Chekov least of all). And yes, Kes bitching about her one and only chance to have a baby got revoltingly annoying. By the way, how does evolution work on Ocampa? If each female Ocampan can only give birth once to presumably one child as Kes implies, each generation would diminish by half. Bad writing.
@kev3d True TOS was only one for three seasons, but much of the character development came in the TOS movies 2-6(with the possible exception of 5, but....), as opposed to the lack of same in any of the TNG movies.
As for Voyager, it was a good idea ruined by shitty writing and Rick Berman's insistence on bringing in T&A midway through it. For one, why did the Voyager crew have to be stranded in the Delta Quadrant? Clear case of "Gilligan's Island" Syndrome which poisioned the show from
@eugene1 No, the Wesley of ENT wasn't Phlox, it was Archer, hands down. Like TOS, the chief engineer should've been the captain. The Kes subplot really could've used more thought, and she should've been allowed to go the distance, even though "Darkside" was an excellent exit for Jennifer Lien's character.
Neelix without Kes...well, he had his good moments, but I didn't care for him much either.
As for Takei, doesn't matter, Give him good material to work with and he will look like a
@williamskidfears Shakepearian veteran, same as the writing of the TOS movies(except Final Frontier) actually made Shatner look like he was an actor, let alone an accomplished one.
@kev3d Also, do you have a problem with having women in charge? There seems to be a particularly harsh tone towards Captain Janeway and I wonder why!!!
@eugene1 No, I just dislike Janeway. Whenever Kira was in charge, she was fine. The female Admirals and other Administrators in TNG were mixed because some were meant to be portrayed as short sighted bureaucrats (No wonder Janeway got promoted) and others more reasonable. It is made clear from Barclay that Holodeck addiction is coupled with a detachment from reality and deep rooted personality issues. Leave it to Janeway to fall in love with a Hologram.
@kev3d And Riker as well, or have we forgotten about Minuet distracting him and Jean Luc so the Binars could fucking steal their ship right out from under them.
And, we just won't mention Kunta Kintee, most incompetent engineer in Starfleet, having a hard-on for a hologram, now will we?
@williamskidfears It is true, the discipline and educational standards of Starfleet got worse and worse. The Binars are a good example, but so is the holodeck which frequently malfunctions to such a degree that it is clear no one in the Federation has any clue as to how they work. The crew also believe their own propaganda, about how "war, disease and poverty" have been eliminated when it is clear none have been (some planets worse than others.)
@eugene1 But between Captains, who would you want in your corner? Kirk saved Earth at least twice (V'ger and the Whale Probe), ushered in an era of peace with the Klingons despite his misgivings about the race and was basically a badass to his dying breath. As for an artificial being trying to be human, who's better, Data or the Doctor? For a crew member caught between two cultures, Worf or Torres? For an empath, Troi or Kes? I grant that Wesley, Jake, Neelix, Phlox and Nog can all go to hell.
@eugene1 You noticed that too, huh? Janeway didn't do anything that the four Starfleet captains with penises didn't do in their careers(and, unlike a certain Robert Urich sidekick, she didn't gas an inhabited planet just to get one renegade crewmember...), yet she's somehow bad for doing those things?
Actually, Janeway said they were slower to invoke the Prime Directive in the time of Kirk, and she said she sometimes wishes she could have been an officer during that time so chances are things would have turned out exactly the same.
@iloldirl The Prime Directive wasn't an issue in the Khitomer Conspiracy. And she states, quite clearly, that Tuvok made the right decision in the simulation. Janeway is all talk. Kirk and Sulu, insofar as fictional characters go, are the real deal.
Starfleet has gotten through so many different uniform designs. The Enterprise era uniform, the TOS era, the Star Trek - the Motion Picture era, the Star Trek 2-6 era, the TNG season 1 uniform, the TNG season 2-7, the early DS9/Voyager design, and finally the grey late-Voyager and movies 8-10 uniform. I think the Tailors Union on Earth has a good lobby.
@chrismc410 They should've kept that uniform, IMO. It was the only one, other than the ENT jumpsuits, which resembled a real military uniform and not pajamas or hotel bellhop wear.
@williamskidfears I figure Starfleet phased out those uniforms because they were too militaristic and not fitting of a organization whose primary role is exploration and diplomacy.
Isn't it weird that most of the captains don't follow starfleet rules. Kirk didn't, sulu didn't, and neither did Janeway. Lol, breaking rules makes great captains.
The way Sulu says "Engage!" is almost as awesome as Picard's. I don't really like Voyager either, but this is one of the few great scenes in the series.
Then there's also many great ones with Seven of Nine, but that's a different story altogether...
Given some of the video mashups I've seen of George Takei's topical activist/humour videos, when he said "You are absolutely right. You are also..." I was fully expecting him to say "a douchebag!"
Well, what else can you expect from a captain that once ordered her helmsman not to warn civilization of an impending planet wide disaster because it would violate the prime directive?
Janeway is being misquoted, there is more to what she was going to say, I think (It's been awhile since I have seen this episode). Out of any of the Captains she would understand the bond of a crew, they would've had to become close to one another and more like a family. If they didn't they would've all killed each other. Maybe she thought that Tuvok did the right thing because all Captains need to be reminded of regs every once in awhile, if they were ignored all the time it would be chaos.
"you did the right thing?" why put that into the script? you had a great little moment that spoke volumes about not only star trek as a whole but also about people, i assumed that the writers agree with this... until janeway says her line which seems to say like the writers were against Sulu's line of thinking why? what is up this captain and show?
Janeway....total prude. Worst Captain out of all of the ST series. A cautious, regulations-driven hack. Tuvok should have just raised the objection and backed off. Yet Janeway seems bound and determined to act like a head-mistress and de-ball a legend like Sulu.
"Oh, those old timers. They just didn't get it. You were soooooo right, Tuvok."
Janeway....you suck. No wait, you're a prude. You never sucked anything.
Sulu is right here. Even Vulcans bond with their crewmates after a time. At the same time as this chronologically, Spock himself was doing the same exact thing as Sulu - ignoring regulations and bending the rules - for the exact same reason: save Kirk and McCoy.
That's the main difference between TNG, DS9 and Voyager vs the original Trek: although the previous three shows talked about regulations and the prime directive they broke the rules almost as much as Kirk did, but Kirk admitted it without shame or pause whereas Picard and Janeway spouted this Holier then thou attitude about it. Dman hypocrits. That's why the originals are legends!
The only way this could've been better would've been to have, after Janeway says "You know, you did the right thing," for Sulu swing around in the chair to answer back "Listen you--I was driving the flagship of the Federation and saving life as you know it dozens of times over before your mother was even BORN...and somehow in all our years together Admiral Kirk never ONCE got us stranded 70 years from home, not Mr. Spock or Mr. Scott or I so don't you question MY command ability here!" ;)
she didn't really question sulu, she just supported a possibly conflicted tuvok. Also you forget that Kirk had the writers on his side. He'd be dead on his first mission in real life. The original series was revolutionary and meaningful in ways that haven't been matched sense, but in the end Kirk was half mad and full fool and their escapades were absurdly unrealistic.
@waldoman7 What the hell?? Kirk is DA MAN!! This is all fiction ya know so to say that one charector had the"writers on his side"? WTF! He was the STAR OF THE SHOW!! All the other ppl were supporting stars. Without Kirk, Trek would never have been what it was. You need to recognize..."fool?" Kirk was a fool?? Take a step back....make that 2 steps back.
Kirk had his virtures certianly. In some ways he is a hero. Yet he takes his macho arrogance to absurd and disgusting extremes, which on many occasions get them in to uneccesary bad situations. The blood of countless redshirts is on his hands for his irrational ego based decisions. He does have ingenuity, but it usually takes a backseat to his ego to the point that he couldn't escape any bad situation if there wasn't an absurdly easily seduced female holding the keys.
@waldoman7 Yea so in episodes like "The Corbomite Manuever" where his ingenuity,ego, and balls got them out of the situation, or "Balance of Terror" where he basicaly outmanuevered the Romulans and countless other episodes.. where was this woman with keys? And screw the redshirts anyway! They're soldiers/security, their expendable. Plus alot of times their death couldnt have been predicted or prevented. And the same macho arrogance, is what gets them "out" of bad situations.
Like I said, he does have ingenuity and courage and a couple other decent traits. I'm not denying that he's pulled off a few impressive victories, but more often than not he created the problem in the first place, and more often than not it's Spock that cleans up his messes.
His worst crime of course is brainwashing a generation of children into thinking that such crap is heroic, thus spawning people who say things as stupid as the second half of your comment.
@waldoman7 Really? Dude, I think you got some serious authority issues. You ought to go get that checked out... First off, If Spock is the better commander as you seem to imply, I would ask why is Spock not commander of Enterprise or have command of his own ship? I would think if Spock thought he was better suited to command, It would be "illogical" for him to stay as second.
spock demonstrates a mind and character much better suited to command that Kirk's. Kirk retains command because he is written to, plain and simple. There were one or two episodes when he was deliberately written to beat Spock at something just to make him shine, but it's so horribly obvious that Spock isn't operating at his usual level in those episodes. Kirk is an artificial hero. No man with his traits would get far in real life.
@JustThink00 Blah blah blah...So Superman is an artificial hero as well,because he doesnt exits, and neither do Kirk, Spock or the good ship Enterprise. Why are you guys such Kirk haters? Its just a tv show. And in my book( which is really the only one that counts to me) Kirk kicks ass!! In "The Corbomite Manuever" Kirk bluffed his way to sucess, whereas Spock would never have thought of that. Also remember that when you say Kirk is "written" to beat Spock, so is Spock "written" to beat Kirk..
not existing isn't the point. If superman DID exist he would be a hero, so he's a fictional hero. Kirk is an artificial hero. He's the image of a hero without the substance.
@JustThink00 If you save the galaxy as many times as Kirk has, you deserve to be called a hero. He is a hero by definition of his actions. That is the only way to determine, in the end, if he is heroic. An artifical hero could not save the galaxy, only a real hero could do that.
@waldoman7 And as for his "crime", again , must I remind you , THIS IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTOR were talking about. He is written AS heroic. And I for one find him very much so, as I do Superman,James Bond and alot of other FICTIONAL charactors. The second half of my comment is only stupid to someone with a loose grip on reality, which you have very clearly demonstrated in your previous ejaculations!
just because you're written to seem cool and win all the time doesn't mean you're a hero. It means writers want people to think you're a hero so they can make money.
grips on reality and ejaculations have no relevance here.
@waldoman7 Of course they do, thats why you miss the point. One mans garbage is another mans treasure, I dont think you or I are qualified to decide who "is" or who "is not" a hero. Its up to the indivdiual to determine what they personally find as "Heroic" And in my book Kirk is definetly a Hero and is a much better role model than alot of what I see these days. I would much rather have my son or daughter grow up watching Kirk, than Jersey Shore.
Heroism is PARTIALLY subjective, but how can you call a man with no respect for the lives of the soldiers who trust him a hero? how can you respect a man who defines himself by manhood when gender is neither chosen nor earned and the western concept of manhood is a mixed bag of virtues and flaws, as demonstrated so clearly by our bumbling murderous captain?
the low bar kirk sets is not made any higher by the presence of a bar underground.
@waldoman7 I believe heroism is totally subjective. Some people think Hitler was a hero, or Kadaffi or Gengis Khan, most people dont agree with that, but it goes to show that , one mans hero is another mans barbarian. George Washington, General Patton, they lost men under their command as well, does that make them bumbling? Or murderous? Or incompetent? His manhood is a fact and nothing he should NOT be proud of. Womanhood is also a mixed bag of emotions and contradictions, We are what we are.
Neo nazis and KKK are usually unbalanced people operating from a flawed premise. More sane germans who followed Hitler at the time didn't understand him or know the depths of his crimes. Having not known him personally, I can't COMPLETELY outrule the possibility of him having one or two heroic traits, but in the end some things are noble and some things are not. Selfish murderous ego is not.
man/womanhood are social constructs. We are what we choose to be.
@waldoman7 I didnt know Hitler personally, but I CAN completely outrule him having ANY heroic traits. When you attempt genocide of a race in your quest for world domination, all bets are off. That is about as cowardly and evil as A human being can get, and I really hesitate to use the word "Human Being" when I refer to Hitler.
Manhood and womanhood are biological factualities, dealing with the X and Y chromesones. I could no more "choose" to be a woman, then I could choose to be a fish.
well, now you're taking the other side of the debate, implying that Hitler is objectively evil. Personally I think he was more insane than evil. Horrible men can end up having a few good traits anyway.
Male is biological. Manhood is not. We don't call children men and woman do we?
@waldoman7 Yes, I think Hitler was evil. If you read his book Mein Kompf, you can see that even at a young age, his mental process was clear. He knew exactly what he was doing. An insane man would have trouble getting an entire nation to follow them into insanity and insane actions, but a clever evil man can manipulate those actions just as Hitler did. However, this is all academic anyway, as he's dead now, and I think the world is better for it.
@waldoman7 And btw, Spock has lost men as well see "The Galileo Seven" Not only did he lose crew but almost had a mutinity due to his poor command decisions and callousness to the dead crewmen. I bet you would blame Kirk for that as well, even though he was not even there. If you are to put Kirk under the microscope, please dont be so biased against him, look at other commanders decisions and judge based on performance not your own moral compass.
Spock was not callous to the dead crewmen, he simply did not see it as logical to waste time mourning them when he had lives to save. To that end a little mourning would have been a worthwhile sacrifice.
I will not judge soley on success-fail records when they can be affected by luck, and certainly not when they're planned by writers.
@waldoman7 However, it does seem you are judging Kirk's actions and they are planned by the writters? Which leads us back to square one. And Spocks reactions, are the reason he is not Captain, but merely 1st officer. In the original plan, he was just science officer, but the "writters" saw the fan reaction and decided to write him into second in command. That was based on fan reaction.The writters affect every character. He would not have been as respected as Kirk has proven time again to be.
my previous post seems somehow to be missing the second sentence. "Spock's only mistake was in failing to consider mutiny from the irrational humans."
I am judging kirk's choices, not the outcomes, for the most part.
Spock's initial title is irrelevant. They could have written him as janitor if they wanted, and he'd still be better suited for command than kirk.
maybe in-universe that's true, but in-universe they could have cowardice and lack of arms be essential qualities for a commander if they wanted to. Star Trek isn't a Michael Bay movie or a porno. We don't watch it for meaningless visuals. We watch it because it has messages that have meaning in real life. Good sci fi is about challenging preconceptions and expanding mental horizons, and Star Trek is great sci fi, but kirk is still a clown.
@waldoman7 While agree that some good sci fi is about challenging preconceptions and expanding the mind, I also believe that good sci fi is also about blast them up and phaser battles too! I dont watch star trek or any tv show to learn life lessons, i watch it because its entertainment and I enjoy the characters and how they interact with each other and overcome conflicts. If Kirks machoism and boldness offends you, you should go sign on with Voyager, Janeway should be tame enough for you.
uhg. it's original STAR TREK. It went down in history for the kind of stuff I'm talking about, not phaser battles. If you want that go watch the Star Wars prequels.
btw, Janeway isn't tame. That woman is psycotic. She's probably killed almost as many of her own people as Kirk did. She usually comes up with some crazy rationalization, and then totally reverses her stance next episode. Yet much like Kirk, this doesn't stop her from making interesting stories.
@waldoman7 No, I know what I want and where to get it. I love Trek for the ship to ship battles and phaser action as much as the stories. Apparently, you are one of those trek fans who like to speak as if everyone thinks like you do. I know exactly what the og Trek was about and it went down in history as much for the action as the cerebral effect it had. Like it for what you want, and Ill do the same. One thing I do know, is that if I were Captain, id throw A Red Shirt on you in A heartbeat!
we've already covered the fact that he's scripted to be the best captain in starfleet, and that this in no way makes him less of a buffoon. You never countered any of my points about why his methods would be folly in the real world, and his philosophy an insane one. You simply argued that the real world wasn't relevant, because he was written to be bad ass. So conclusion: He is written as an idiot who is magically bad ass.
My apprecition of Spock of course has nothing to do with his rank.
Yes, I call the best captain an idiot. He is best because they say so. He is an idiot because he acts like one. How is this so hard to understand? writers may change all sorts of rules of reality but they can't turn idiocy into genious.
I imagine that Roddenberry is probably not to blame as much as Shatner.
@waldoman7 To call the best Captain in Starfllet, recognized by his peers, crewman and fans of the show an idiot?.. says alot about your personal lack of self respect and insecurity. Your intimidated by Kirk and the Shatner. These are bold men who have done much in life and that fact seems to put you ill at ease with yourself. Go and be bold! Dont be scared of life and live it to the fullest as these men have! Dont be such a hater
what episode is this from? I dont recall seeing this ever.
casketdance 1 week ago
As a vulcan supporter , I do not fault tuvok for his left brained logic.
As a human supporter , I am forced to stand with Admiral Sulu
Apprently Vulcans have lost some intuitive ability.
I will report this to the federation emediately.
azkeyz 1 week ago
Takei..is sexy as hell
Shinigami88X1 1 week ago
Sulu: FLY HER APART THEN!!!!
chapmasi 2 weeks ago 2
@chapmasi Yes... That And when he called for "Shi-elds!" just Before the Subspace-wave hit... Some might fault his acting but..Even now, I think those are 'good moments'.. Both really 'put me there'! I've play alot of games; StarFleet Command 2(orion pirates w/eye3's modtool) comes to mind & Bridge Commander(I still host a server!). And the way he acts in relation to Star Trek: It really "Puts me there". I'm Glad he cameo'd in this Ep! I think It's Season 3 - Episode 2 "Flashback"
glytchd 3 days ago
I like arguing with the Japanese people. They have a skill at listening and saying counter-arguments that they really believe in.
mrteemumilto 2 weeks ago
@mrteemumilto Aye... I tend to agree that here in America; We not be taught(In fact Discouraged even!) the value of logic and proper Discourse. If only we were encourage to think & Reason :) But as an episode of The Adventures of Young Indiana Jones said: "Society doesn't want men whom arrive at their Convictions; it want servants." "ppl wish to be servants since it Relieves them of responsibility to make Hard Choices; like Ethical Decisions." Chk it out
glytchd 3 days ago
@glytchd And the Japanese have some of the ability =) It happens that Finland doesn't encourage independent and critical thought either, even though the establishment uses the pretense of democracy. Another analogy is the stupid students, who have been taught not to defy the peer groups. We truly live in a dictatorship.
mrteemumilto 3 days ago
@glytchd And the elite controls the population indirectly through the peer classes where the individuals have to live in.
mrteemumilto 3 days ago
@glytchd This means that even though Japan is a constitutional monarchy, they still have more individual freedom than the Western democracies.
mrteemumilto 3 days ago
Captain James Tiberius Kirk was the best god damned captain in all of Starfleet. He took the Enterprise and rammed it down their throats whenever he saw fit to do so. Whenever the Federation was in trouble...which ship did they call upon to bail them out and kick some ass??? The USS Enterprise...no bloody A,B,C or D!!!!
gargoyle2bad4u 2 weeks ago
@gargoyle2bad4u Well said!
glytchd 3 days ago
you better believe it.
pure genius!
AJongeling 2 weeks ago
oh my!
KarinMikazuki 3 weeks ago
Janeway was a Borderline Idiot
Roadracer987654321 3 weeks ago
Sulu isn't owning Tuvok so much as he's owning the regulations. As might be said in that other sci-fi series, James Tiberius has taught him well.
UncleMikeNJ 1 month ago
@UncleMikeNJ Agreed, that is one hell of a Kirk speech. Where were these guys when Picard let Worf get screwed by the Klingon High Council in "Sins of the Father?" Honestly. Kirk would've invoked General Order 24 and barbecued Q'onos til Duras and his house had their heads impaled on stakes.
williamskidfears 1 month ago
sulu fucking PWNS!
Rcee01 1 month ago
owned
goodwolf359 2 months ago
Badass.
SPQRImperator 2 months ago
Ensign, you're absolutely right, but you're also a douche bag. That's right a douche bag.
McShaggswell 2 months ago 12
Why wouldn't sulu be on the excelsior?
Goatlover1027 2 months ago
@Goatlover1027 He is on the Excelsior.
williamskidfears 1 month ago
This is the episode that made me realize Voyager was full of fail and could only be entertaining if they copied older, more successful iterations of Star Trek. It had less to do with nostalgia and more to do with desperately trying to attract viewers.
shortylickens69 3 months ago
Those of us who disliked Janeway have no issues with women being in charge; we're just concerned about incompetent psychotic loons in charge. For the record, I have *no* issues with Kate Mulgrew, a fine actress who I'm sure could have played Janeway as a sane professional *if* the writers had only brought that up in the character.
AndythePervert 3 months ago 8
@AndythePervert Incompetent psychotic loons? Oh, you mean like Sisko, who rendered an entire planet uninhabitable just to get back at ONE renegade crewmember, and who randomly punches people out just for the hell of it? Oh, how about like Archer, who attacks a ship just to steal a warp coil, after pontificating about not doing anything to betray his humanity. Or, good ol' Jean Luc, self-righteous hypocritical bastard that he was, who told Data he
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@williamskidfears just had to let his pen pal fucking die along with her race, told his crew to just shoot half Borga-tized crew members cause they'd being doing them a favor, even after his crew risked their necks to save his ass from the same fate, just callously blew up a collector thingy and let the bad guy alien burn, preached at Spock about how wrong he was to simply practice "cowboy diplomacy" and try to reunite his race and the Roms, instead of "blindly following orders," like a good
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@williamskidfears 24th century Starfleet drone, who stomped on Wesley for not letting the Indians on Indian Planet get screwed over by the Feds and beat down by the Cardies, but was willing to resign his commission and save the Baku all for a bit of skirt.
Just admit it Trekkies, you have no issues with dem darkies, as long as dey be good lil darkies and wear dem miniskirts, go-go boots, fishnets and spankies and tell ol' Massa Kirk just how scared dey is.
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@williamskidfears How does making one Maquis homeworld uninhabitable by humans make him psychotic. It wasn't some necessary planet, no lives were lost, and it was the quickest/only way of capturing a TERRORIST LEADER. And what do you mean he punches people out for the hell of it?
Spiderblade 3 weeks ago
SULU FTW
Skedarking85 3 months ago
You better believe it. Oh Sulu ~ I love George Takei. Which is good, because one day, when I least expect it, he WILL have sex with me. Or not, cos' I'm a girl. Whatever.
DistressedxDamsel 3 months ago
You are a douchebag...
LordDarthVader5 3 months ago
straight baws
Sovul 3 months ago
Janeway is a moron...You did the right thing???? Obviously she has no sense of loyality whatsoever lol, I wish Harry wouldve shot her in the back with a phaser...Man, I HATE Voyager!
thechamp5811 3 months ago
Oh my!
Toastrodamus 3 months ago
yeah helm. fucking engage
whitedevil2 3 months ago 40
WHAT EPISODE IS THIS
Actionman102 3 months ago
0:53
I would get that face and quote tattooed on my arm
darquille 4 months ago 3
You know you did the right thing, NOW, get down on it, get down on it, make Sulu smile!
joetylerdale 4 months ago
Had Janeway been in charge during the events of Undiscovered Country, Kirk and Bones would have been killed on Rura Penthe, The Enterprise would have been destroyed, the Federation President would have been assassinated, War would have broken out between factions of Klingons and starfleet hawks, leaving them weakened for invasion from the Romulans.
kev3d 4 months ago 49
@kev3d Rubbish! Janeway is a natural rule-breaker and maverick! She's only consoling Tuvok at the end but she overrode him on a number of occasions on Voyager when he was being typically Vulcanish in his "we must stick to the rules" mentality.
eugene1 3 months ago
@eugene1 Why console a full blooded Vulcan? They have no feelings to harm, no egos to brusie. Janeway is a bureaucratic fool. Her greatest accomplishment before getting lost was following immoral and short-sighted orders in pursuing the Maquis.
kev3d 3 months ago
@kev3d Janeway consoled Tuvok several times in the series, I guess that's friendship. In criticising Janeway for pursuing the Marquis, are you also then criticising Picard who went after them in the ep 'Preemptive Strike' & Sisko who went after them big time in many eps? And Janeway is the least bureaucratic captain of all; merging with the marquis, violating people's space, making a deal with the borg, getting deliberately assimilated & violating the temporal & prime directives several times!
eugene1 3 months ago
@eugene1 Yes, Picard and Sisko were wrong in their pursuit of the Maquis, Sisko and Janeway in particular because the Maquis' just motives and Cardassian abuses were well known by that time. Janeway is the worst kind of hypocrite; she ignores or abuses the rules when it serves her own needs, but when it is convenient, she claims the moral high ground. She was a terribly written character for a terribly written series.
kev3d 3 months ago
@kev3d Ouch! Terribly written character for a terribly written series? Damn, Voyager had its faults, no doubt, plus there were annoying inconsistencies among the characters at times, but I felt Kate Mulgrew was a fantastic actress who really imbued Janeway with great humanity and depth. Surely there were episodes that brought a tear to your eye or made you laugh or really think; Distant Origin (Dinosaurs), Death Wish (Suicidal Q), Scorpion pt 1&2, Living Witness (700 yrs in future)?
eugene1 3 months ago
@eugene1 Death Wish perhaps, but that's only because the Q are so interesting. Most of Voy was rehashed from TNG ,DS9 and even some TOS, such as The Doctor's quest to be accepted as a being with rights, Data did the same. Enterprise D had holodeck hijinx, so did Voy, Picard was assimilated, so was 7 of 9, The Enterprise was also thrust into unknown space, TOS had a Mirror Universe, TNG had a multiverse including a "hell" universe and so on.
kev3d 3 months ago
@eugene1 Now for what Voy offered as original, it was rather paltry. Female captain? Big deal. TNG had female Admirals. The annoying Neelix? The whiny Kes? The unfunny Doctor? Even Paris, Tuvok, Torres and Kim are really cookie cutter characters with either no depth at all, or borrowed characteristics from other, better characters. After all, who's Tuvok compared to Spock's complexity? Kim to Sulu's (eventual) leadership? Chakotay to Riker's charisma? And Paris? Well Paris just sucks.
kev3d 3 months ago
@kev3d C'mon now, George Takei is one of the most wooden actors I've seen. Garret Wang as Harry Kim was way better. All you need to do is watch the above scene for proof. Naturally Spock would have more complexity as he's half human. Wesley Crusher, Quark, Neelix, Dr Phlox; each series has its irritating character. Kes never whined or complained ever - I challenge you to name an ep where she did plus she was phenomenal in the ep Warlord. Chakotay was more dignified than Riker. Ok Paris did suck!
eugene1 3 months ago
@eugene1 Did you watch the clip above? Takei is great. And bear in mind TOS was on for only 3 seasons so there was less opportunity for the characters to develop (Uhura and Chekov least of all). And yes, Kes bitching about her one and only chance to have a baby got revoltingly annoying. By the way, how does evolution work on Ocampa? If each female Ocampan can only give birth once to presumably one child as Kes implies, each generation would diminish by half. Bad writing.
kev3d 3 months ago
@kev3d True TOS was only one for three seasons, but much of the character development came in the TOS movies 2-6(with the possible exception of 5, but....), as opposed to the lack of same in any of the TNG movies.
As for Voyager, it was a good idea ruined by shitty writing and Rick Berman's insistence on bringing in T&A midway through it. For one, why did the Voyager crew have to be stranded in the Delta Quadrant? Clear case of "Gilligan's Island" Syndrome which poisioned the show from
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@williamskidfears the beginning. Why not just assign them to explore the back of beyond and leave it at that, same as TOS.
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@eugene1 No, the Wesley of ENT wasn't Phlox, it was Archer, hands down. Like TOS, the chief engineer should've been the captain. The Kes subplot really could've used more thought, and she should've been allowed to go the distance, even though "Darkside" was an excellent exit for Jennifer Lien's character.
Neelix without Kes...well, he had his good moments, but I didn't care for him much either.
As for Takei, doesn't matter, Give him good material to work with and he will look like a
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@williamskidfears Shakepearian veteran, same as the writing of the TOS movies(except Final Frontier) actually made Shatner look like he was an actor, let alone an accomplished one.
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@kev3d Also, do you have a problem with having women in charge? There seems to be a particularly harsh tone towards Captain Janeway and I wonder why!!!
eugene1 3 months ago
@eugene1 No, I just dislike Janeway. Whenever Kira was in charge, she was fine. The female Admirals and other Administrators in TNG were mixed because some were meant to be portrayed as short sighted bureaucrats (No wonder Janeway got promoted) and others more reasonable. It is made clear from Barclay that Holodeck addiction is coupled with a detachment from reality and deep rooted personality issues. Leave it to Janeway to fall in love with a Hologram.
kev3d 3 months ago
@kev3d And Riker as well, or have we forgotten about Minuet distracting him and Jean Luc so the Binars could fucking steal their ship right out from under them.
And, we just won't mention Kunta Kintee, most incompetent engineer in Starfleet, having a hard-on for a hologram, now will we?
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@williamskidfears It is true, the discipline and educational standards of Starfleet got worse and worse. The Binars are a good example, but so is the holodeck which frequently malfunctions to such a degree that it is clear no one in the Federation has any clue as to how they work. The crew also believe their own propaganda, about how "war, disease and poverty" have been eliminated when it is clear none have been (some planets worse than others.)
kev3d 1 month ago
@eugene1 But between Captains, who would you want in your corner? Kirk saved Earth at least twice (V'ger and the Whale Probe), ushered in an era of peace with the Klingons despite his misgivings about the race and was basically a badass to his dying breath. As for an artificial being trying to be human, who's better, Data or the Doctor? For a crew member caught between two cultures, Worf or Torres? For an empath, Troi or Kes? I grant that Wesley, Jake, Neelix, Phlox and Nog can all go to hell.
kev3d 3 months ago
@kev3d HEY, you leave Jake out of this! :D
johnkerry7 1 month ago
@eugene1
I like women in charge, but I hate bad writing. Voyager is filled with it.
Username93611 2 months ago 4
@eugene1 You noticed that too, huh? Janeway didn't do anything that the four Starfleet captains with penises didn't do in their careers(and, unlike a certain Robert Urich sidekick, she didn't gas an inhabited planet just to get one renegade crewmember...), yet she's somehow bad for doing those things?
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@kev3d
Actually, Janeway said they were slower to invoke the Prime Directive in the time of Kirk, and she said she sometimes wishes she could have been an officer during that time so chances are things would have turned out exactly the same.
iloldirl 3 months ago
@iloldirl The Prime Directive wasn't an issue in the Khitomer Conspiracy. And she states, quite clearly, that Tuvok made the right decision in the simulation. Janeway is all talk. Kirk and Sulu, insofar as fictional characters go, are the real deal.
kev3d 3 months ago
Starfleet has gotten through so many different uniform designs. The Enterprise era uniform, the TOS era, the Star Trek - the Motion Picture era, the Star Trek 2-6 era, the TNG season 1 uniform, the TNG season 2-7, the early DS9/Voyager design, and finally the grey late-Voyager and movies 8-10 uniform. I think the Tailors Union on Earth has a good lobby.
ClunytheScourge1 4 months ago
@ClunytheScourge1 I think you mean Next Generation seasons 1&2, season 3 and seasons 4-7 ;-)
There's also the seemingly-already-decided future uniform, but the design is probably the worst of the lot!
Splazz 4 months ago
@ClunytheScourge1 Six uniforms in almost two century, that's not that bad.
That orange-red uniform is my favorite though. I wish they'd stick to that kind of uniform, instead of going back to the pyjamas of TOS.
Xerxes2005 4 months ago
@ClunytheScourge1 The 2-6 uniform lasted the longest. Even Picard in his early career and up to the end of his Stargazer days wore that one.
chrismc410 2 months ago 2
@chrismc410 They should've kept that uniform, IMO. It was the only one, other than the ENT jumpsuits, which resembled a real military uniform and not pajamas or hotel bellhop wear.
williamskidfears 1 month ago
@williamskidfears I figure Starfleet phased out those uniforms because they were too militaristic and not fitting of a organization whose primary role is exploration and diplomacy.
RampantFury925 4 weeks ago
The worst part for Tuvok was being comforted by Janeway.
MrRafaelBCK 4 months ago
Ooh maiiiii...
obliviousfafnir01 4 months ago
God, I love Takei's voice. He could be reading excerpts from Hop On Pop and make it sound like The Odyssey.
Squisidee 4 months ago
"What is a man?? A miserable little pile of secrets!!!"
birdbrainxzx 4 months ago 2
@birdbrainxzx
My favorite SOTN quote.
tripwire99 4 months ago
@tripwire99 haha mine too it just seemed so abstract here
birdbrainxzx 4 months ago
@birdbrainxzx
Now I'm looking for my old Playstation.
tripwire99 4 months ago
When was this? A voyager ep I assume?
phillyphil690 4 months ago
@phillyphil690 Flashback. Season 3, episode 2 of Voyager. You can watch it online at allstepisodes.
thefinalfrontier1701 4 months ago
I like Tuvok but when
If I was on the spot Captain Sulu say Tuvok, these words:
"Once again, you'll be publicly questioned my orders and I command you throw you through an f...ing airlock" :-)
What does this mean that ordinary ensign questioned the captain's orders.
The soldier has to listen to the orders of superiors and did not speak to them as if he or she was their friend,
I do not mean here is that you can not be friends with the captain, but you can not undermine their authority.
PawelK198604 4 months ago
you better beleive it!
thewewguy8t88 4 months ago
Sulu should have chopped Janeway for adding another stupid line in the end ...
Spionsilver 4 months ago
@Spionsilver Sulu could not see or hear Janeway, this is Tuvok's memory.
SteadyHaze 4 months ago
he should not have drank Nelix's beverage lol
kalisteau 4 months ago
1 person is borg.
thefinalfrontier1701 5 months ago 17
@thefinalfrontier1701 then they assimilated one more
midgetor 4 months ago
@thefinalfrontier1701 3 now we are so fucked.
LordHannigan 3 months ago
He never should have drunk those chemicals.
TrueTydin 5 months ago
@TrueTydin Helloooooooooooooooooooooooo
TheSamuraiKoala 5 months ago
@TheSamuraiKoala nice.... nice
TrueTydin 5 months ago
The interesting thing is that the actor playing Tuvok was indeed on the Excelsior's bridge, at the same station in ST6, but as a human.
Xerxes2005 5 months ago
@Xerxes2005 wrong - it's STAR TREK 7 - but yes, Tim Russ played a human there
chreberle 4 months ago
Tuvok's Flashback!!!
I LOVE THIS EPISODE!!!
Stargateloverin 5 months ago
Shut up Janeway!
sleepingonsunday 5 months ago
That was the most repulsive Asian / African American combination since Tiger Woods......
happymax1 6 months ago
i bet george takei had a hard time saying those words due to his utter hatred for shatner...
irontusk341 6 months ago
@irontusk341 Takei may hate Shatner, but that doesn't automatically mean that Sulu hates Kirk.
Amar7605 5 months ago
What is this from? I iz confused.
seveeona 6 months ago
" Now, Tuvok! Whip out that massive black Vulcan pon far pole and show your loyalty by golfing my epiglotis to Rigel 12 with it!"
tmont007 6 months ago 8
@tmont007 THIS!
LichexJenkins 4 months ago
@LichexJenkins This what?
tmont007 4 months ago
"oh my, i do love a man who takes charge"
alwaysATM 6 months ago
Isn't it weird that most of the captains don't follow starfleet rules. Kirk didn't, sulu didn't, and neither did Janeway. Lol, breaking rules makes great captains.
Triplethreat99 7 months ago 2
"One day, Tuvok, when you least expect it - I will - have SEX with you!"
Zebonka 7 months ago
@Zebonka is that Sulu speaking?hahahaaha
Chewy2284 7 months ago
he should have just gotten up in the end and bitch slapped janeway!
trekkie1981 7 months ago
The way Sulu says "Engage!" is almost as awesome as Picard's. I don't really like Voyager either, but this is one of the few great scenes in the series.
Then there's also many great ones with Seven of Nine, but that's a different story altogether...
Larrylarp 7 months ago
Given some of the video mashups I've seen of George Takei's topical activist/humour videos, when he said "You are absolutely right. You are also..." I was fully expecting him to say "a douchebag!"
MissLynx 9 months ago 4
0:27 He looks into the camera as if to say: "And here comes the obligatory Star Trek moral that exists in every episode."
Agaue22 9 months ago
Voyager sucked, although I am curious about this episode? What was it?
spudnutsncoffee 9 months ago
@spudnutsncoffee it was a 30th anniversary one called 'Flashback'
yellowpete79 9 months ago
@spudnutsncoffee Voyager had some good Borg episodes as I recall.
Nautilus1972 8 months ago
Voyager = Teh Suq. Sulu > Janeway
Halgrim 9 months ago
"You better believe it." LOL!
Damious100 9 months ago
Sulu is awesome
Gordontrek 9 months ago
" Oh My"
MrMichael1701 9 months ago 3
Janeway's no fun. If she hadn't been stranded in the Delta Quadrant she would have been the most boring captain in Starfleet.
On the other hand, even Kirk needed to be reminded of how important regulations were by Savik. See Wrath of Khan.
jimbopumbapigsticks 10 months ago
Well, what else can you expect from a captain that once ordered her helmsman not to warn civilization of an impending planet wide disaster because it would violate the prime directive?
nothri 10 months ago
Captain Sulu sounds like he has a cold.
gunblade64 11 months ago
Janeway is being misquoted, there is more to what she was going to say, I think (It's been awhile since I have seen this episode). Out of any of the Captains she would understand the bond of a crew, they would've had to become close to one another and more like a family. If they didn't they would've all killed each other. Maybe she thought that Tuvok did the right thing because all Captains need to be reminded of regs every once in awhile, if they were ignored all the time it would be chaos.
OlafurNeal 11 months ago
What episode is this from?
supergreatsuper 1 year ago
"you did the right thing?" why put that into the script? you had a great little moment that spoke volumes about not only star trek as a whole but also about people, i assumed that the writers agree with this... until janeway says her line which seems to say like the writers were against Sulu's line of thinking why? what is up this captain and show?
woollybully100 1 year ago
Janeway....total prude. Worst Captain out of all of the ST series. A cautious, regulations-driven hack. Tuvok should have just raised the objection and backed off. Yet Janeway seems bound and determined to act like a head-mistress and de-ball a legend like Sulu.
"Oh, those old timers. They just didn't get it. You were soooooo right, Tuvok."
Janeway....you suck. No wait, you're a prude. You never sucked anything.
Halgrim 1 year ago 7
OMG it's Rand!!!! COMMANDER Rand at that!
missfirekitty202 1 year ago 5
Sulu is right here. Even Vulcans bond with their crewmates after a time. At the same time as this chronologically, Spock himself was doing the same exact thing as Sulu - ignoring regulations and bending the rules - for the exact same reason: save Kirk and McCoy.
edinscot56789 1 year ago 3
@edinscot56789 But then again, Spock IS half-human.
Payneisgod1 1 year ago
That's the main difference between TNG, DS9 and Voyager vs the original Trek: although the previous three shows talked about regulations and the prime directive they broke the rules almost as much as Kirk did, but Kirk admitted it without shame or pause whereas Picard and Janeway spouted this Holier then thou attitude about it. Dman hypocrits. That's why the originals are legends!
hamanu666 1 year ago
The only way this could've been better would've been to have, after Janeway says "You know, you did the right thing," for Sulu swing around in the chair to answer back "Listen you--I was driving the flagship of the Federation and saving life as you know it dozens of times over before your mother was even BORN...and somehow in all our years together Admiral Kirk never ONCE got us stranded 70 years from home, not Mr. Spock or Mr. Scott or I so don't you question MY command ability here!" ;)
obiwanobiwan13 1 year ago 92
well put. :)
MrHoppers002 1 year ago
it would be interesting if sulu commanded the voyager
MrHoppers002 1 year ago 2
@obiwanobiwan13 Yes, but the Excelsior wasn't the Fed's flagship AFAIK.
MasterMacLeod 1 year ago
@obiwanobiwan13 At the risk of sounding like a nerd (a nerd who responds to 8 month old comments), Sulu was born in 2237, just 27 years before Tuvok.
davidls11 9 months ago
@obiwanobiwan13
she didn't really question sulu, she just supported a possibly conflicted tuvok. Also you forget that Kirk had the writers on his side. He'd be dead on his first mission in real life. The original series was revolutionary and meaningful in ways that haven't been matched sense, but in the end Kirk was half mad and full fool and their escapades were absurdly unrealistic.
waldoman7 8 months ago
Comment removed
mlee2001 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@waldoman7 What the hell?? Kirk is DA MAN!! This is all fiction ya know so to say that one charector had the"writers on his side"? WTF! He was the STAR OF THE SHOW!! All the other ppl were supporting stars. Without Kirk, Trek would never have been what it was. You need to recognize..."fool?" Kirk was a fool?? Take a step back....make that 2 steps back.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
Kirk had his virtures certianly. In some ways he is a hero. Yet he takes his macho arrogance to absurd and disgusting extremes, which on many occasions get them in to uneccesary bad situations. The blood of countless redshirts is on his hands for his irrational ego based decisions. He does have ingenuity, but it usually takes a backseat to his ego to the point that he couldn't escape any bad situation if there wasn't an absurdly easily seduced female holding the keys.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 Yea so in episodes like "The Corbomite Manuever" where his ingenuity,ego, and balls got them out of the situation, or "Balance of Terror" where he basicaly outmanuevered the Romulans and countless other episodes.. where was this woman with keys? And screw the redshirts anyway! They're soldiers/security, their expendable. Plus alot of times their death couldnt have been predicted or prevented. And the same macho arrogance, is what gets them "out" of bad situations.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
Like I said, he does have ingenuity and courage and a couple other decent traits. I'm not denying that he's pulled off a few impressive victories, but more often than not he created the problem in the first place, and more often than not it's Spock that cleans up his messes.
His worst crime of course is brainwashing a generation of children into thinking that such crap is heroic, thus spawning people who say things as stupid as the second half of your comment.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 Really? Dude, I think you got some serious authority issues. You ought to go get that checked out... First off, If Spock is the better commander as you seem to imply, I would ask why is Spock not commander of Enterprise or have command of his own ship? I would think if Spock thought he was better suited to command, It would be "illogical" for him to stay as second.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
spock demonstrates a mind and character much better suited to command that Kirk's. Kirk retains command because he is written to, plain and simple. There were one or two episodes when he was deliberately written to beat Spock at something just to make him shine, but it's so horribly obvious that Spock isn't operating at his usual level in those episodes. Kirk is an artificial hero. No man with his traits would get far in real life.
JustThink00 4 months ago
@JustThink00 Blah blah blah...So Superman is an artificial hero as well,because he doesnt exits, and neither do Kirk, Spock or the good ship Enterprise. Why are you guys such Kirk haters? Its just a tv show. And in my book( which is really the only one that counts to me) Kirk kicks ass!! In "The Corbomite Manuever" Kirk bluffed his way to sucess, whereas Spock would never have thought of that. Also remember that when you say Kirk is "written" to beat Spock, so is Spock "written" to beat Kirk..
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
not existing isn't the point. If superman DID exist he would be a hero, so he's a fictional hero. Kirk is an artificial hero. He's the image of a hero without the substance.
JustThink00 4 months ago
@JustThink00 If you save the galaxy as many times as Kirk has, you deserve to be called a hero. He is a hero by definition of his actions. That is the only way to determine, in the end, if he is heroic. An artifical hero could not save the galaxy, only a real hero could do that.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@waldoman7 And as for his "crime", again , must I remind you , THIS IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTOR were talking about. He is written AS heroic. And I for one find him very much so, as I do Superman,James Bond and alot of other FICTIONAL charactors. The second half of my comment is only stupid to someone with a loose grip on reality, which you have very clearly demonstrated in your previous ejaculations!
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
just because you're written to seem cool and win all the time doesn't mean you're a hero. It means writers want people to think you're a hero so they can make money.
grips on reality and ejaculations have no relevance here.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 Of course they do, thats why you miss the point. One mans garbage is another mans treasure, I dont think you or I are qualified to decide who "is" or who "is not" a hero. Its up to the indivdiual to determine what they personally find as "Heroic" And in my book Kirk is definetly a Hero and is a much better role model than alot of what I see these days. I would much rather have my son or daughter grow up watching Kirk, than Jersey Shore.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
Heroism is PARTIALLY subjective, but how can you call a man with no respect for the lives of the soldiers who trust him a hero? how can you respect a man who defines himself by manhood when gender is neither chosen nor earned and the western concept of manhood is a mixed bag of virtues and flaws, as demonstrated so clearly by our bumbling murderous captain?
the low bar kirk sets is not made any higher by the presence of a bar underground.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 I believe heroism is totally subjective. Some people think Hitler was a hero, or Kadaffi or Gengis Khan, most people dont agree with that, but it goes to show that , one mans hero is another mans barbarian. George Washington, General Patton, they lost men under their command as well, does that make them bumbling? Or murderous? Or incompetent? His manhood is a fact and nothing he should NOT be proud of. Womanhood is also a mixed bag of emotions and contradictions, We are what we are.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
Neo nazis and KKK are usually unbalanced people operating from a flawed premise. More sane germans who followed Hitler at the time didn't understand him or know the depths of his crimes. Having not known him personally, I can't COMPLETELY outrule the possibility of him having one or two heroic traits, but in the end some things are noble and some things are not. Selfish murderous ego is not.
man/womanhood are social constructs. We are what we choose to be.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 I didnt know Hitler personally, but I CAN completely outrule him having ANY heroic traits. When you attempt genocide of a race in your quest for world domination, all bets are off. That is about as cowardly and evil as A human being can get, and I really hesitate to use the word "Human Being" when I refer to Hitler.
Manhood and womanhood are biological factualities, dealing with the X and Y chromesones. I could no more "choose" to be a woman, then I could choose to be a fish.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
well, now you're taking the other side of the debate, implying that Hitler is objectively evil. Personally I think he was more insane than evil. Horrible men can end up having a few good traits anyway.
Male is biological. Manhood is not. We don't call children men and woman do we?
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 Yes, I think Hitler was evil. If you read his book Mein Kompf, you can see that even at a young age, his mental process was clear. He knew exactly what he was doing. An insane man would have trouble getting an entire nation to follow them into insanity and insane actions, but a clever evil man can manipulate those actions just as Hitler did. However, this is all academic anyway, as he's dead now, and I think the world is better for it.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@waldoman7 And btw, Spock has lost men as well see "The Galileo Seven" Not only did he lose crew but almost had a mutinity due to his poor command decisions and callousness to the dead crewmen. I bet you would blame Kirk for that as well, even though he was not even there. If you are to put Kirk under the microscope, please dont be so biased against him, look at other commanders decisions and judge based on performance not your own moral compass.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
Spock was not callous to the dead crewmen, he simply did not see it as logical to waste time mourning them when he had lives to save. To that end a little mourning would have been a worthwhile sacrifice.
I will not judge soley on success-fail records when they can be affected by luck, and certainly not when they're planned by writers.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 However, it does seem you are judging Kirk's actions and they are planned by the writters? Which leads us back to square one. And Spocks reactions, are the reason he is not Captain, but merely 1st officer. In the original plan, he was just science officer, but the "writters" saw the fan reaction and decided to write him into second in command. That was based on fan reaction.The writters affect every character. He would not have been as respected as Kirk has proven time again to be.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
my previous post seems somehow to be missing the second sentence. "Spock's only mistake was in failing to consider mutiny from the irrational humans."
I am judging kirk's choices, not the outcomes, for the most part.
Spock's initial title is irrelevant. They could have written him as janitor if they wanted, and he'd still be better suited for command than kirk.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 If he was better suited, he would have been Captain. He is not, therfore, he was not.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
maybe in-universe that's true, but in-universe they could have cowardice and lack of arms be essential qualities for a commander if they wanted to. Star Trek isn't a Michael Bay movie or a porno. We don't watch it for meaningless visuals. We watch it because it has messages that have meaning in real life. Good sci fi is about challenging preconceptions and expanding mental horizons, and Star Trek is great sci fi, but kirk is still a clown.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 While agree that some good sci fi is about challenging preconceptions and expanding the mind, I also believe that good sci fi is also about blast them up and phaser battles too! I dont watch star trek or any tv show to learn life lessons, i watch it because its entertainment and I enjoy the characters and how they interact with each other and overcome conflicts. If Kirks machoism and boldness offends you, you should go sign on with Voyager, Janeway should be tame enough for you.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
uhg. it's original STAR TREK. It went down in history for the kind of stuff I'm talking about, not phaser battles. If you want that go watch the Star Wars prequels.
btw, Janeway isn't tame. That woman is psycotic. She's probably killed almost as many of her own people as Kirk did. She usually comes up with some crazy rationalization, and then totally reverses her stance next episode. Yet much like Kirk, this doesn't stop her from making interesting stories.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 No, I know what I want and where to get it. I love Trek for the ship to ship battles and phaser action as much as the stories. Apparently, you are one of those trek fans who like to speak as if everyone thinks like you do. I know exactly what the og Trek was about and it went down in history as much for the action as the cerebral effect it had. Like it for what you want, and Ill do the same. One thing I do know, is that if I were Captain, id throw A Red Shirt on you in A heartbeat!
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
end conclusion of arugment:
Kirk is a buffoon, but a bad ass one.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 Re:end conclusion of arugment: Kirk is the best Captain in Starfleet. His record speaks for itself.
End of line.
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
we've already covered the fact that he's scripted to be the best captain in starfleet, and that this in no way makes him less of a buffoon. You never countered any of my points about why his methods would be folly in the real world, and his philosophy an insane one. You simply argued that the real world wasn't relevant, because he was written to be bad ass. So conclusion: He is written as an idiot who is magically bad ass.
waldoman7 4 months ago
Comment removed
mlee2001 4 months ago
@mlee2001
My apprecition of Spock of course has nothing to do with his rank.
Yes, I call the best captain an idiot. He is best because they say so. He is an idiot because he acts like one. How is this so hard to understand? writers may change all sorts of rules of reality but they can't turn idiocy into genious.
I imagine that Roddenberry is probably not to blame as much as Shatner.
waldoman7 4 months ago
@waldoman7 To call the best Captain in Starfllet, recognized by his peers, crewman and fans of the show an idiot?.. says alot about your personal lack of self respect and insecurity. Your intimidated by Kirk and the Shatner. These are bold men who have done much in life and that fact seems to put you ill at ease with yourself. Go and be bold! Dont be scared of life and live it to the fullest as these men have! Dont be such a hater
mlee2001 4 months ago