Enough minutiae, this was a debate. Which depends on the speakers' confidence and ability to convince listeners.
As you pointed out, you created the structure: A fictional concept based entirely on belief and imagination. Venger stated a firm belief based on the characters' personalities and stuck with it. You stated a belief in SM's speed and then discarded it for an imagined, flimsy, poorly researched scenario (SM breathes oxygen, too).
@PseudoSherlock Your first sentence was awesome in its sheer autofail. You brought points to my points, and I countered them. That's not minutiae, it is simply extending the conversation.
As for firm beliefs regarding comic book characters, I'll just say this: Venger got the meta-dialogue, you didn't.
Regarding your assessment, yes, by tallies at this point, Venger won the debate (or rather, more people support the side he was given). And really, that's all good. The purpose was served.
"Your first sentence was awesome in its sheer autofail." That sentence alone is pure auto-win. Hahaha. Although, PseudoSherlock's views are also valid, of course.
This is the prelude to something even cooler than comic book superhero match-ups. Stay tuned to my channel, true believers!
First, you had Hulk in space starving for air. The comics have shown Hulk surviving in the middle of space without a suit. So your explanation already falls apart if you go back to the source.
Secondly, logically, I'd say that Superman has shown the ability to tire and bleed. Hulk is described as never tiring (actually getting more powerful as time goes on) and healing automatically. So, over time, eventually Superman would have to lose. Anything else would be a deus ex machina.
@PseudoSherlock No, you're wrong, the Hulk breathes air. If you really wanted to take that argument apart, you'd have pointed out that once reverting to Banner, he would be crushed by pressures and frozen by the cold, thus killing him. Check the Marvel Wiki, he can breathe underwater, but not in space. He still has a brain that requires oxygen to work.
Also, the Hulk *can* be injured and does heal, but *over time*. When Superman actually beat him in a crossover, he used his heat vision.
@jason666king All those things you're describing are writer-specific. In the Planet Hulk series he is shown standing on a spacecraft in space without a suit. Same with the healing factor, it will dial up when a writer wants it to.
Also same with Superman. He's as powerful as whomever pulls his strings wants him to be. Either he'll get hurt and bleed, or he'll be invulnerable. There is no hard fact. My point is only that you can't say the Hulk will suffocate in space because he doesn't always.
@jason666king I looked into it further. They both breathe air. So they're both holding their breath in space. In other words, what you've described is a waiting game. Who has a greater lung capacity?
Or you could say that Hulk would just hold his breath, clap in the opposite direction as Earth, and fall back to the planet.
What it really comes down to is that any scenario you can make up can be countered by another made up scenario. So you have to go back to their basic attributes.
@PseudoSherlock "Or you could say that Hulk would just hold his breath, clap in the opposite direction as Earth, and fall back to the planet."
This is simply some epic failership, pHd style. Since there is no atmosphere in space, the Hulk clapping would do absolutely nothing.
You are right though in much of the rest of what you say in various replies, it IS up to the writers, obviously. And guess what? . . . I wrote this. The entire scenario. And Venger wrote back. Make sense yet?
@jason666king You conveniently forgot to respond to the fact that your scenario involves Superman standing there while Hulk suffocates, despite the fact that both need air to survive and both are capable of holding their breath in space.
So, choosing which response to respond to and ignoring ones you don't have a response to doesn't mean you "countered all my points". It just means you're good at moving your mouth or pushing keys on a keyboard to sound right.
@jason666king Wow. You're really good at distracting from the main point and refocusing on lesser points that someone else has made a mistake on to circle uselessly around them.
This is what it comes down to. Your scenario depended on SM floating happy in space while Hulk suffocates. That isn't possible as he also needs air. So SM wouldn't do what you suggested, so any further discussion of what would happen is a waste of time.
Your half of the debate was your video, it was easily refuted.
Sorry dude.. Hulk wins.. VS has it right, for the most part.. except that it isn't just Superman's rationality that is his weakness, it is his do-gooder nature.. While Hulk's rage engulfed the area surrounding.. Kal-El would be too busy saving people to properly assault our green mass of mayhem... It is without a doubt, he would be caught off guard trying to rescue Lois or Jimmy...
@beastxeno I gave the scenario where it happens quite easily. And you bring in Lois and Jimmy as plot tools to sway the argument, I could bring in Betty Ross and come up with a scenario where that cost the Hulk the fight. As Venger pointed out (and he's right), the outcome depends on the writers. Either has the ability to beat the other. Ken once linked me to a video where some writer had Ghost Rider beating Galactus. Yeah, you read that right.
@beastxeno Ill just go Dr Strange over the hulk or superman.... He wont beat those fuckers with force or speed he will just lock them in an alternate dimension.
But undoubtedly the strongest character in the DC universe has to be Lucifer who's idea of kiddie gloves is bathing someone in the fire from the nearest star... Fuck that Justice League bullshit.
You and Venger are both wrong. While Superman and The Hulk would be busy fighting amongst one another, OUT OF NOWHERE would come Mr. Furious from Mystery Men to take em both out!
@DarkF00L Dude, if I wanted to get serious, Superman could beat FIVE (5) Hulks. By whatever name. It's all in the speed. Speed rules over strength easily. The writers have never understood this complete and utter disparity in any way, shape, or form. They should've taken a clue or two from Flash writers. But they have to make Kal-El an idiot just to make battles like these feasible. They have to slow him down and make him stupid. Neither premise holds.
@02Blackbeard As with some of my other work, this should be understood on two levels. Think about it. And thanks for Mike's b-day present, the bag was a nice touch. Tried PMing you but it said you have friend-lock.
Hulks biggest weakness is his counter part Bruce banner, The fact superman can take him out of the atmosphere he'l collapse and turn back into bruce banner. He'l outspeed the hulk and take him down, but if the hulk didn't have his bruce banner side. It could turn out different, the hulk gets stronger the more he fights and the angrier he gets. Unless superman was actualy trying to kill the hulk asap i think hulk could take him down in a longer run. Problem is superman doesn't fight with logic :)
Superman is a closet fag who wears red underwear on the outside. You really think that's going to stop the Hulk? Hulk would completely crush that dude. Look at what the fuck he did to the Avengers for crying out loud. Superman can't even stand up to Batman and you think he's going to stand up to the fucking HULK? HELL NO!! But, I'd pay to see that fight anyway simply because Superman would get exposed as the overrated clown he is.
@TheManiacalSatanist6 Dude, I'm not saying Superman couldn't be beat. GL could do it easily, as could the Surfer. But Batman and the Hulk just don't have what it takes. The writers want Bats to be able to do the job so badly they underestimated Supes' speed by a full factor. They just don't have the same reaction times. See the other video. Thor and even Wonder Woman present better challenges to Kal-El than either of the Bruces.
@Battlescar2 He'd have to be able to *touch* him first. Speed+Flight. My argument.
Could the Hulk dismember Kal-El's body? Could he rip dude in half? Sure. He'd have to get get angry enough, but he might also need a bit of *speed*, which he doesn't have. Even if the Hulk was at +75% anger and happened somehow to grab Supes' wrists to do the deed, Kal-El's speed and flight would allow him to slip the grab. Aikido works on a similar principle.
@jason666king well did you ever see the 2 Hulk movies? (Both awful btw). In those they dont make the hulk so clumsy, and they portray him being able to run at extreme speeds because of his leg strength
As far as I am concerned there´s something comic about Superman and the Hulk.......
mzedong001 2 months ago
Not bad.
boksmutant 5 months ago
LOLZ No one can defeat Superman
satanicinternational 5 months ago
I don't trust superman at all. He's not a man, he's a man-like alien..basically he's a fucking liar..fuck that dude..Hulk wins..
michael616joaquin 5 months ago
Enough minutiae, this was a debate. Which depends on the speakers' confidence and ability to convince listeners.
As you pointed out, you created the structure: A fictional concept based entirely on belief and imagination. Venger stated a firm belief based on the characters' personalities and stuck with it. You stated a belief in SM's speed and then discarded it for an imagined, flimsy, poorly researched scenario (SM breathes oxygen, too).
Given the 2 videos and rules: I'd say you lost.
PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
@PseudoSherlock Your first sentence was awesome in its sheer autofail. You brought points to my points, and I countered them. That's not minutiae, it is simply extending the conversation.
As for firm beliefs regarding comic book characters, I'll just say this: Venger got the meta-dialogue, you didn't.
Regarding your assessment, yes, by tallies at this point, Venger won the debate (or rather, more people support the side he was given). And really, that's all good. The purpose was served.
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
@jason666king Glad we're in agreement.
PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@jason666king
"Your first sentence was awesome in its sheer autofail." That sentence alone is pure auto-win. Hahaha. Although, PseudoSherlock's views are also valid, of course.
This is the prelude to something even cooler than comic book superhero match-ups. Stay tuned to my channel, true believers!
TheIchor 5 months ago
First, you had Hulk in space starving for air. The comics have shown Hulk surviving in the middle of space without a suit. So your explanation already falls apart if you go back to the source.
Secondly, logically, I'd say that Superman has shown the ability to tire and bleed. Hulk is described as never tiring (actually getting more powerful as time goes on) and healing automatically. So, over time, eventually Superman would have to lose. Anything else would be a deus ex machina.
PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
@PseudoSherlock No, you're wrong, the Hulk breathes air. If you really wanted to take that argument apart, you'd have pointed out that once reverting to Banner, he would be crushed by pressures and frozen by the cold, thus killing him. Check the Marvel Wiki, he can breathe underwater, but not in space. He still has a brain that requires oxygen to work.
Also, the Hulk *can* be injured and does heal, but *over time*. When Superman actually beat him in a crossover, he used his heat vision.
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
@jason666king All those things you're describing are writer-specific. In the Planet Hulk series he is shown standing on a spacecraft in space without a suit. Same with the healing factor, it will dial up when a writer wants it to.
Also same with Superman. He's as powerful as whomever pulls his strings wants him to be. Either he'll get hurt and bleed, or he'll be invulnerable. There is no hard fact. My point is only that you can't say the Hulk will suffocate in space because he doesn't always.
PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
@jason666king I looked into it further. They both breathe air. So they're both holding their breath in space. In other words, what you've described is a waiting game. Who has a greater lung capacity?
Or you could say that Hulk would just hold his breath, clap in the opposite direction as Earth, and fall back to the planet.
What it really comes down to is that any scenario you can make up can be countered by another made up scenario. So you have to go back to their basic attributes.
PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
@PseudoSherlock "Or you could say that Hulk would just hold his breath, clap in the opposite direction as Earth, and fall back to the planet."
This is simply some epic failership, pHd style. Since there is no atmosphere in space, the Hulk clapping would do absolutely nothing.
You are right though in much of the rest of what you say in various replies, it IS up to the writers, obviously. And guess what? . . . I wrote this. The entire scenario. And Venger wrote back. Make sense yet?
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
@jason666king You conveniently forgot to respond to the fact that your scenario involves Superman standing there while Hulk suffocates, despite the fact that both need air to survive and both are capable of holding their breath in space.
So, choosing which response to respond to and ignoring ones you don't have a response to doesn't mean you "countered all my points". It just means you're good at moving your mouth or pushing keys on a keyboard to sound right.
PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
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PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
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PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
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PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
@jason666king Wow. You're really good at distracting from the main point and refocusing on lesser points that someone else has made a mistake on to circle uselessly around them.
This is what it comes down to. Your scenario depended on SM floating happy in space while Hulk suffocates. That isn't possible as he also needs air. So SM wouldn't do what you suggested, so any further discussion of what would happen is a waste of time.
Your half of the debate was your video, it was easily refuted.
PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
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PseudoSherlock 5 months ago
Chickenwings!
Sorry dude.. Hulk wins.. VS has it right, for the most part.. except that it isn't just Superman's rationality that is his weakness, it is his do-gooder nature.. While Hulk's rage engulfed the area surrounding.. Kal-El would be too busy saving people to properly assault our green mass of mayhem... It is without a doubt, he would be caught off guard trying to rescue Lois or Jimmy...
BX
beastxeno 5 months ago
@beastxeno I gave the scenario where it happens quite easily. And you bring in Lois and Jimmy as plot tools to sway the argument, I could bring in Betty Ross and come up with a scenario where that cost the Hulk the fight. As Venger pointed out (and he's right), the outcome depends on the writers. Either has the ability to beat the other. Ken once linked me to a video where some writer had Ghost Rider beating Galactus. Yeah, you read that right.
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
@jason666king Ghost Rider beating Galactus!!!... You're kidding us, surely?!... LMFAO!!!...
zeppelinuk 2 weeks ago
@beastxeno Ill just go Dr Strange over the hulk or superman.... He wont beat those fuckers with force or speed he will just lock them in an alternate dimension.
But undoubtedly the strongest character in the DC universe has to be Lucifer who's idea of kiddie gloves is bathing someone in the fire from the nearest star... Fuck that Justice League bullshit.
TheDeadIdea 5 months ago
@TheDeadIdea
Did I say Strange I meant Fate... same shit different universe.
TheDeadIdea 5 months ago
You and Venger are both wrong. While Superman and The Hulk would be busy fighting amongst one another, OUT OF NOWHERE would come Mr. Furious from Mystery Men to take em both out!
DarkF00L 5 months ago
@DarkF00L Dude, if I wanted to get serious, Superman could beat FIVE (5) Hulks. By whatever name. It's all in the speed. Speed rules over strength easily. The writers have never understood this complete and utter disparity in any way, shape, or form. They should've taken a clue or two from Flash writers. But they have to make Kal-El an idiot just to make battles like these feasible. They have to slow him down and make him stupid. Neither premise holds.
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
@DarkF00L
You mean Phoenix Dark?
TheIchor 5 months ago
One of your best debates.......EVER! good job.
timishardcore 5 months ago
You are so epic.
brickmastertube 5 months ago
:/
02Blackbeard 5 months ago
@02Blackbeard As with some of my other work, this should be understood on two levels. Think about it. And thanks for Mike's b-day present, the bag was a nice touch. Tried PMing you but it said you have friend-lock.
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
Hulks biggest weakness is his counter part Bruce banner, The fact superman can take him out of the atmosphere he'l collapse and turn back into bruce banner. He'l outspeed the hulk and take him down, but if the hulk didn't have his bruce banner side. It could turn out different, the hulk gets stronger the more he fights and the angrier he gets. Unless superman was actualy trying to kill the hulk asap i think hulk could take him down in a longer run. Problem is superman doesn't fight with logic :)
Kaikoazril 5 months ago
Superman is a closet fag who wears red underwear on the outside. You really think that's going to stop the Hulk? Hulk would completely crush that dude. Look at what the fuck he did to the Avengers for crying out loud. Superman can't even stand up to Batman and you think he's going to stand up to the fucking HULK? HELL NO!! But, I'd pay to see that fight anyway simply because Superman would get exposed as the overrated clown he is.
TheManiacalSatanist6 5 months ago
@TheManiacalSatanist6 Dude, I'm not saying Superman couldn't be beat. GL could do it easily, as could the Surfer. But Batman and the Hulk just don't have what it takes. The writers want Bats to be able to do the job so badly they underestimated Supes' speed by a full factor. They just don't have the same reaction times. See the other video. Thor and even Wonder Woman present better challenges to Kal-El than either of the Bruces.
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
The Hulk would break Superman in half man, and Im totally just saying that because im a hulk fan. ;)
Battlescar2 5 months ago
@Battlescar2 He'd have to be able to *touch* him first. Speed+Flight. My argument.
Could the Hulk dismember Kal-El's body? Could he rip dude in half? Sure. He'd have to get get angry enough, but he might also need a bit of *speed*, which he doesn't have. Even if the Hulk was at +75% anger and happened somehow to grab Supes' wrists to do the deed, Kal-El's speed and flight would allow him to slip the grab. Aikido works on a similar principle.
Speed >>>Strength. And Technique>>Speed.
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
@jason666king well did you ever see the 2 Hulk movies? (Both awful btw). In those they dont make the hulk so clumsy, and they portray him being able to run at extreme speeds because of his leg strength
Battlescar2 5 months ago
@Battlescar2 I gave him the strength. Just not the speed. F=MA. Watch my video again . . .
JK
jason666king 5 months ago
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Battlescar2 5 months ago
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Battlescar2 5 months ago