A 3-minute diagnosis of the Canadian Health Care System

[goldenglitter101]

You could have written it out & make it must easier for yourself and us. And where do ur facts come from?

[crypticrevival]

@goldenglitter101

The facts are cited in the description. May I ask what in particular you have an issue believing?

[crypticrevival]

@FIXWCBCANADA

Again, I suppose this further demonstrates how bad of an idea it is to have private health care (Workers Compensation Boards) alongside public health care. From academic articles I have read though, it suggested to me (inexperienced with it first-hand) that Workers' Comp patients can get scans, surgeries etc... ahead of people waiting in the public system.

[FIXWCBCANADA]

The Canada Health Act Discriminates Against Injured

Workers By Excluding Them From "Access To Health Services Without Financial Or Other Barriers" By Excluding "Any Health Services That A Person Is Entitled To And Eligible For Under Any Act Of The legislature Of A Province That Relates To Workers' Or Workmen's Compensation" And That This Leaves Injured Workers Vulnerable To Wrongdoing By The Workers Compensation System

[crypticrevival]

@FIXWCBCANADA

I suppose you could look at it that way. However, people receiving care under the Workers' Compensation Board actually receive priority care - they will get a scan, surgery etc... ahead of everyone else. Canada actually has a lot of private health care, it's just in these pockets like drugs, long-term care and workers' compensation.

With that, I would say the opposite: Workers' Compensation Boards impede the Canada Health Act.

[FIXWCBCANADA]

@crypticrevival ,,injured Jan 24 / 2003 denied diagnostic test and forced into physiotherapy were I deteriorated and was then cutoff benefits; received MRI June 2005, 30 months after injury;

GP requests for expedited specialists appointment; DENIED; see you in court asap, workers comp;

received surgery sept 2005 but denied treatment for other injuries, finally diagnosed 2011;

[crypticrevival]

@FIXWCBCANADA

I'm sorry to hear that. Perhaps I am naive, but to me this just further shows how a two-tiered system can fail, in one of the worst ways. Introducing private into public...not the solution we need.

[FIXWCBCANADA]

@crypticrevival ...most Canadians do not understand how Workers Comp really functions, when injured on the job, The injured worker is discriminated and denied universal healthcare; Then without medical care the injured worker is soon disabled due to denial of requested diagnostic tests to properly diagnose the injury; (sure if you have a bone sticking out your body or your injury is plainly obvious, then treatment is usually forthcoming;)

However, when injury is not easily diagnosed ,,,ur fked;

[jellofuel]

I'm all for Canada's two tier health care system. In reality, it's not a single payer system: Canadians with the means travel to America and buy care there. God bless America... if it wasn't for you, we'd be screwed!

[dave19941000]

@jellofuel From Canada or not, no REAL Canadian would prase the American health care system. In what part of our great country do you live in to be under tis delussion?

[jellofuel]

@dave19941000 Actually, REAL Canadians appreciate a little dissent, since it shows where governments are going wrong. I live in the 905, outside Toronto.

More and more Canadians are experiencing the American system, as the Canadian system fails us.

[dave19941000]

@jellofuel It fails us? Why are the only Canadian doctors who speek out against it the ones who derectly benifit from the american system? And most of them are under investigation for illegal billing. I live in Quebec, and I can tell you EVEN WITH all our peoblems we are doing better then the Americans as half my family lives in the US as I did for a few years. I know we have problems, but every system does, and we have less then the american system, not to meantion 0 deaths from lack of money.

[jellofuel]

@dave19941000 Yup. A free market system reaches equilibrium and everyone gets what they want. In Canada, the price is set, so it's impossible for suppliers to meet demand efficiently or effectively. America's HC system is amazing. You get what you pay for. Up here, you pay, but you don't get. You get thrown on a waiting list. WTH is the deal with that? People DIE on waiting lists! They have their conditions deteriorate and you're ok with that? It's sickening.

If America goes public, we lose.

[crypticrevival]

@jellofuel

And if you can't pay, or your employer doesn't offer coverage (or you work part-time) but you make enough not to be considered for Medicare/Medicaid, no health care services for you.

Every developed country in the world except the U.S. has universal coverage. (All OECD natios except Turkey, Mexico and theU.S.) I don't think the odds are in favour of the argument that the U.S. has it right.

[jellofuel]

@crypticrevival Been a while since I posted here. Stateside it appears there are more community clinics opening their doors and charging for care based on income. I see the American system as self correcting, especially if you let change happen. Also anticompetition laws need to be repealed.

But its worth noting that the Cdn system is drifting towards increased privatization as patients grow tired of excessive waiting lists. Dig around a little and you'll be surprised at whats out there

[crypticrevival]

@jellofuel

I do not disagree that there are many more systems out there with privatization in the health care system (ourselves included: Worker's compensation, drug coverage, supplementary coverage etc...) however, in the nations that appear to work best for health outcomes and keeping costs down are systems that heavily regulate the private market in health care.

SHI Nations - same health outcomes as NHS, but they cost more.

[suckerfixer]

@jellofuel fucking moron

[suckerfixer]

@jellofuel fuck you

[murphyj87]

The Fraser Institute is an ultra right wing think tank that represents the views of fewer than 3% of Canadians.

[jjsas]

Nowhere in the constitution does it state that you have a right to free health care.

[ColinGWood]

@jjsas

It states you have the right to butt fuck asnother person out of THEIR healthcare so that YOU can buy another summer home!

What liberty!

[robbell]

What about the uninsured Americans that come to Canada?

The province of Ontario is spending millions to provide legitimate Canadians secure photo ID health cards.

This is due to the large amount of fraud.

The problem is particularly acute in cities close to the US border.

A counterfeit OHIP card will set you back $1,000 on the black market.

Once these people are taken care of by their own government Canadian waiting times will improve.

[murphyj87]

Americans come here because health care is rationed by insurance-run health care in the US. Private insurance would ration care and create for real the horror stories that Americans make up about Canadian health care.

[ZackServo]

That is a fucking awful idea.

[Janemas]

Lies! Canadians are happy and would never trade theirs for coverage denial and robbery of their income!

[thoughtsurfer1]

You people do know that over 90% of Canadians wouldn't trade their system for ours? That tells you something. Profit makes things more expensive, by definition. The idea of some corporate fat cat making millions off my health needs is sickening. POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

[342518]

So the answer to long waiting times is not quite so long waiting times. Brilliant!!

Instead of 3 month to get an MRI it'll only be 2, instead of 18 months for joint replacement, it'll only be 14 months. That's better. Right???

[murphyj87]

Better than insurance-run health care in the US where tens of millions of Amercians are on a waiting list from the time they NEED treatment for decades until they qualify for Mdicare and can actually GET care. They may need treatment at age 30 and be on a 35 year waiting list unti they qualify for MEdicare at 65.

[meadowman2007]

Yeah, more government is needed! More government is always the solution when government fails.

[chphotography2]

I haven't lived in Canada for 7 years, but it's a laugh to think that a Universal Waiting List will solve a thing. Stories of average wait times in places like Toronto's emergency wards are legendary. I think the courts (the Supreme Court perhaps), said 58 people had died in some period because of lack of access to health care.

Nice, top-down day-dreaming. My wife would still have had to wait 6 weeks for a gall bladder operation if they brought it about, as she did back in 2001 or so.

[crypticrevival]

Oh I imagine a universal waiting list will not fix it completely. But did you know that such a thing does not exist? No-one knows physician's waiting lists and times except the physicians and staff involved. It's strange to think that this is not 'overseen'. While this 'solution' is not the fix-all answer, I believe it would definitely help - even if it only displays discrepancies and uneven distribution of patients.

[chphotography2]

How would a waiting list help the current situation with ambulances? I could be confusing the Canadian situation with one in America, but as I recall, ambulances in some city or cities often have to call several different hospitals before they can find one that will take a patient they have picked up. A universal list would help if there is actually room at some places. But what if the problem is that there's no room anywhere? Has the Wait Time Alliance suggested a universal waiting list?

[murphyj87]

Insurance-run health care in the US is like that. If you don't have insurance, the hospitals are going to try to send you elsewhere. The insurance takeover of health care in the US kills 45,000 Americans a year.

[chphotography2]

So we need to get third-party payers out of the system with Health Savings Accounts. See Consumers for Health Care Choice (I think that's the name) at the Heartland Institute. Greg Scandlen, I believe, is the founder -- he has a broad and long experience in the field.

[murphyj87]

That would bring a very great decrease in the quality of you health care. Preople wouldn't save. They'd end up doing without even more than with the insurance takeover of health care.

[chphotography2]

You always have "rationing" -- you just want to be the one doing the rationing -- not government. HSA's "incentivize" people, as they say, by not taxing money set aside for health care. Check out what the founder and owner of Whole Foods does -- he's on his own plan, and his employees have an incentive to take care of their health. The money, if not spent, rolls over.

What you don't need is insurance for regular medical care -- car insurance doesn't cover burnt out headlights, etc.

[crypticrevival]

@chphotography2

But then the sick pay more, leaving them vulnerable. In retrospect, you could say it penalizes the healthy however that is what was agreed - we would all pitch in to help pay for health care for those who need it when they need it (everyone at some point).

The issue with Health Savings accounts is the administration costs. Everyone files taxes anyway, so collecting funds for health that way is cheap. Having employers do it requires manpower and more money.

[sampson4008]

@chphotography2 ..One of the problems i found was here in Thunder Bay, Ontario. Every time in the last few years Ive had to sleep in the hall on a small 2 ft wide bed on wheels in the Emergency. The place was filled with Natives occupying beds because of hang overs from excessive drinking. Also They were coccupying beds because of fight injuries. Its damm sickining that the Stupid Canadian Government is blinded to all this shit.

[thoughtsurfer1]

Nice answer to the right-wing bloggers who fail to realise it's better to fix a system that's for you than one that's against you.

[killyrboyfriend]

Well said thoughtsurfer1, well said, I could not agree more. You encapsulate what i want to say in fewer words, more eloquently, well done. Cheers -L

[342518]

How is my system against me?? I get the care I need when I need it. The old are covered by Medicare, poor are covered by medicaide. Children by S-CHIP. Most of the uninsured qualify for one of these but don't participate, or can afford insurance but choose not to get it. That system is really for you when you have to wait for deeded services.

[murphyj87]

The 45,000 Americans who die each year from insurance-run health care would diagree about being able to get care. When thge insurance company bureaucrat who stands between you and your ohaysicians will ration your care before long to get his healrh care denial bonus. The insurance company takeover of health care in the US kills thousanss of people who would be able to remain alive in Canada. Their Constitutional right to life is taken away from them by insurance-run health care.

[IrwinMink]

Interesting video. They certainly have some serious evaluation to do in the system. Management is one area that lacks and needs new priorities and re-evaluation. Can the system work? maybe, but do prov. govts. have the political will? We need some honesty about what we really want the system to look like. Good for you, some good ideas were presented in your video. There are so many problems it is hard to know where to start.

[crypticrevival]

If anyone is interested, a link to the article that suggested a universal wait list as a solution to long wait times is provided in the information (to the right of the video, the first link).

It is from Statistics Canada and the Canadian Institute for Health Information.

[crypticrevival]

For the record:

The reason this is not a 'video' is because we did not own a video camera, and could not get access to one. We still wanted to enter the contest though, so we did all we could.

We realize our video is the only one of its kind, both in content and form. However, we still hope it offered something others may not have considered.

That said, thank you for all of your comments. It's too bad the limit was only 3 minutes, there is so much more to add.

[henriav]

interesting animated slide show, but it should be a video. The facts are interesting but the conclusion is poor economics--the pie is not fix--if there is more demand for doctors in a 2 tier system, more doctors will be educated or immigrate to fill the void. Plus only 3 other countries other than Canada has the universal health care model and the are communist

[crypticrevival]

Yes, if there are higher wages to be earned via the private system, more doctors will likely stay/move to Canada, aka: incentives. However, it would still drain doctors (or at least good doctors) away from the public system. Unfortunately for Canada, our culture is centred on making money.

[chphotography2]

Dear Sir: I know you are a high-minded Canadian, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with making money. And from my experience in both the U.S. and Canada, I would say that people generally don't do most of what they do "for the money," though it usually matters. Doctors deserve to be paid well, relative to garbage men and firemen, I would say. I don't begrudge them anything.

[crypticrevival]

I am a Lady.

In all fairness, I never said there was anything wrong with paying physicians a high salary. I simply tried to demonstrate the powerful effects of incentives ($) and how it would operate in this context. It's definitely a difficult situation.

[chphotography2]

(It is charming to hear a woman describe herself as a Lady. My wife wrote a book entitled "The Ladies and the Cities" and got trouble from feminists for doing so.)

I'm glad you don't have a problem with the profit motive. As I say, I think it is rarely the chief reason people do things, whether it's medicine or working for IBM.

[murphyj87]

@chphotography2 Canadians get far better health care than Americans do. that is why Canadians live an average of three years longer than Amercians. It is in the US, where insurance company bureaucrats, not physicians, make medical decisions of who gets treatment and what treatment they get, based on the insurance company's bottom line, not the what's best for the patient's health. Canadians totally reject Amercian style insurancde run and insurance rationed health care.

[sampson4008]

@murphyj87 ..you better take into consideration how many Canadians (European decent) are mudrered by minorities, and I think the numbers will change.

[matthewguilherme]

Very good video considering nobody was in it. Liked how you disproved a 2-tier system worked. Only problem is the solution you suggest. You can't just transfer patients over to another doctor. Doctors have specializations, and are located all across the country. So you can't put a patient in Victoria onto a waiting list for a doctor somewhere else. Plus, find me a doctor who has no/few patients right now...

[Patic]

Some interesting information, and some ideas for health care reform I hadn't already heard. Well done.

[Cflake77]

I agree with the spitfire. This video actually has substance and solutions, actual information and content. Great job.

[spitfire229]

Having a MA in Public Administration and having taken several economics courses, including a Masters level course on Health Care, this is the only video that truly offers unique economic arguments to the "private health care is the only solution" approach. Well done!

[skypotato]

i like your health video because health and videos are both things.

[tejk13]

ha i'm not sure if the fraser institute will like your answer but good luck

[MasterGooch]

I thought this movie was pretty cool. Lots of good info about the health care system.

Its not supposed to be entertaining.

[myershighrocks]

Ya, the most boring video ever if you even classify it as a video, i agree with dejong..

[Shimopy113]

An animated video is still a video...

[dejongcr]

I thought this was supposed to be a video? This is just flash animation????