A. Cool, proof accepted. Drug laws aren't wrong, excessive sentencing is. Agreed.
B. I'm confused. CEOs who attended private schools commit white collar crime more because of it. But crime is higher amongst those who did NOT attend private schools because they're disadvantaged.
I don't get it. Blame everything in the world, the schooling, lack of schooling, too much education, too little education, *everything* except the morality of the person.
A. I think you're confused by what crime is. A crime is an infraction of law, regardless of whether you think the law is valid or not. You don't have drug laws in Canada? Drug legalization is another subject.
Also, please also show me evidence that prison sentences for equivalent crimes is more severe in the US.
B. As a whole European nations are about equal to you guys in spending, on average. (Norway spends more, UK spends less.) Yes, Africa spends less.
They're so confident that charters and vouchers will work simply based on ideology. Problem is the empirical evidence does not bear this out. Charter schools and voucher systems only do as well as public schools, not better. Look at the empirical evidence for what has been tried and see what definitely raises achievement and what doesn't. Don't just assume their claims to be true; test it against the empirical evidence. Eric Hanushek, a conservative education economist, realizes this fact.
What annoys me greatly about public education are lists that rank which states fund education the most. Some politician looks and says, "this state is at the bottom!" and shames the people into throwing in more money, after which another state ends up at the bottom and then does the same thing, without regard to actual results. Some of the best schools in the country are private schools that receive less in tuition from parents than the public ones that seem to get endless funds from the govt.
So then we should have very low white collar crime, right? If education produced ethical people we should have very little embezzlement and fraud.
Oh but wait, ever heard of Enron? How about WorldCom, Tyco, Adelphia, Arthur Andersen, or Bernie Madoff.
The US spends more of its GDP on education than Canada (17.% vs 12.7%) and accounts for 28 percent of the global education budget but just 4 percent of the world’s children.
@TrueLibertine The answer to that question was that there have been no improvements in results and that the current results are agreed by most to be sub-par.
Are you listening, public school teachers? Better go see what your union thinks (and what they want you to think) about this video and the points it makes.
Oh, and one other key difference: we don't indulge the childish fantasies of our most deluded citizens and include bullshit like intelligence design in our science curriculum.
So in your reality complex DNA just randomly popped out of heavily irradiated warm mud and produced thousands of intricately functioning, interdependent biological and chemical systems - all from a massive explosion.
China, India, Japan, South Korea and Canada - these are countries that make investments in human capital through education. That's the way you spur sustainable economic growth and that's why are our students continually score higher than the over-privileged obese cases you people are turning out.
@EuchridEucrow1 Japan, South Korea, and Canada (as well as Western Europe) all benefit from America's larger defense budget. (China and India take in more revenue than the rest of these countries because they practice a lot more free market principles then the "well educated west"). We can spend a lot more of our revenue on education, but most of the educated world will have to spend more on their defense as a result.
And of course the idea of a voucher system is fairly stupid on its face. Does anyone actually believe the kids with impoverished backgrounds are going to be handed vouchers to the schools attended by the upper 1%? What are you fucking high?
They'll get vouchers to dilapidated structures staffed with instructors scrapped from the bottom of the barrel. The teachers who couldn't secure the higher paying jobs reserved for educators of the upper class. Teachers so bad, they have no options.
The education system of the United States ranks in at #17 according to the OECD. Pop quiz, how many of the countries ahead of it rely on a completely privatized school system? Any guesses? Don't be shy now. You got it, 0!
Which of course misses the point. Libertarians aren't for eliminating public education entirely because they think it will be a general improvement. It's quite simply about them looking at an inner-city kid and seeing nothing but a waste of money. And that's all it's about.
It's all about gradually changing the public's mind set. Vouchers first, to introduce competition and give control to the parents. That will cause prices to drop as competitive practices increase quality and decrease price. THEN and ONLY THEN can we even have a discussion about lowering property taxes and such.
I personally would like to see a performance-based opt-out of high school. If a 14 year old gets more than a certain score on the SATs, they should be able to opt-out of high school completely. A large majority of the money would follow them, while some stays with the high school, and a percentage is held for a grant fund. As the percentage opting out grows, grants should be given to those districts who have high opt-outs and college scholarship rates.
We need a separation of school and state, for the same reason we have a separation of church and state. Privatize all schools, give them to parent-run boards. As a transition, give a full-ride scholarship (voucher) to all poor kids. Later, this program can be taken over by private tuition grants and scholarships. Allow competition.
Something that would be a benefit to privatizing (or at least localizing): less bullying.
If Kid A is bullied by Kid B in a public school and complains, the bully will get a suspension and a talking to, and the cycle begins again.
At a private school, if Kid A is bullied by Kid B and complains, Kid A's parent can tell the dean "Kick the bully out of the school or I am going elsewhere. Though I can only see that happening if the problem is rampant or if enough complain. Though its a step up.
@liknital07 Why not simply send the bully to therapy or have him talk to a school therapist? Would freshman hazing count as "bullying"? Some traditions need to be kept intact.
The Federal Government should stay out of education! Education by the state should stop at public libraries! Schools should be private or ran by the local community.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
@ElCillian You are CLOSE to being an anarchist if you agree with the ideas of these right wing reason TV motherfuckers. If Amerca didnt have a century of publicly funded education, it would never have developed into THE industrial powerhouse. You "free mkt", "free for all" , "trickle down" idiots make me sick, with your shallow ideas about freedom.
More importantly, what happened to The Jacket? Has it declared independence and seceded? Is it on strike? Does Reason Foundation allow employee unions?
@mmnootzenpoof It wouldn't allow the coercive sort of union that makes up most of todays unions. Coercive unions force new employees to join and coerce their employer with government granted priveledges like forced settlements as well as the government allowing them to surround their employer's land with picketers who don't let scabs or customers through.
A voluntary union would have the right to organize with consenting employees, quit suddenly en-masse and picket in an unobstructive way.
It would still be up to the employer whether or not to just fire people for organizing, but if they formed a voluntary union and the employer still fired them he/she would probably look like an ass.
It seems we've reached the unfortunate point where people think only the government can educate. Education has historically been private, the same with roads, fire departments, police and even courts. The government simply took over education, for the most part, in the end of the 19th century and now people can't imagine a society like it was before.
@reapfreak Whoever said only the government can educate? The people who spend outrageous amounts of money on SSAT, interview, and essay preparation (in addition to the actual private school tuition itself) surely don't believe that! School in many districts are actually just training, and not every school has Latin or even Business Law electives. I largely blame John Dewey for education's decline and whim-based education.
A libertarians view on state run education is to first not be educated by the state. After that, there is no need to explain it or anything else anymore because you will know.
@Rhunidian
"White Collar" is just a term like "assault" and "larceny" is a term.
Crimes committed by people in companies.
AshtonPhoto 5 months ago
@Rhunidian
A. Cool, proof accepted. Drug laws aren't wrong, excessive sentencing is. Agreed.
B. I'm confused. CEOs who attended private schools commit white collar crime more because of it. But crime is higher amongst those who did NOT attend private schools because they're disadvantaged.
I don't get it. Blame everything in the world, the schooling, lack of schooling, too much education, too little education, *everything* except the morality of the person.
Where's the mental block here?!!
AshtonPhoto 5 months ago
I am yet to find a non-white male libertarian... I wonder why.
ILoveTrannys89 5 months ago
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@ILoveTrannys89 I'm a 17 year old white male Libertarian. Oops I just proved your point.
94Cioppa 5 months ago
@ILoveTrannys89 - You haven't looked very hard.
Archaebob 2 months ago
@Rhunidian
A. I think you're confused by what crime is. A crime is an infraction of law, regardless of whether you think the law is valid or not. You don't have drug laws in Canada? Drug legalization is another subject.
Also, please also show me evidence that prison sentences for equivalent crimes is more severe in the US.
B. As a whole European nations are about equal to you guys in spending, on average. (Norway spends more, UK spends less.) Yes, Africa spends less.
AshtonPhoto 5 months ago
@Rhunidian
C. Silly billy, yes, white collar crime is committed in corporations! That's what "white collar crime" is!!!
And traffic accidents happen on roads.
I don't know of any stat that shows more CEOs come from private schools.
I think you're just making stuff up.
Even if that is the case it would prove the point that throwing money at schools does not necessarily produce moral people.
AshtonPhoto 5 months ago
They're so confident that charters and vouchers will work simply based on ideology. Problem is the empirical evidence does not bear this out. Charter schools and voucher systems only do as well as public schools, not better. Look at the empirical evidence for what has been tried and see what definitely raises achievement and what doesn't. Don't just assume their claims to be true; test it against the empirical evidence. Eric Hanushek, a conservative education economist, realizes this fact.
shutuprafa 5 months ago
What annoys me greatly about public education are lists that rank which states fund education the most. Some politician looks and says, "this state is at the bottom!" and shames the people into throwing in more money, after which another state ends up at the bottom and then does the same thing, without regard to actual results. Some of the best schools in the country are private schools that receive less in tuition from parents than the public ones that seem to get endless funds from the govt.
Shanockdotcom 5 months ago
@Rhunidian
So then we should have very low white collar crime, right? If education produced ethical people we should have very little embezzlement and fraud.
Oh but wait, ever heard of Enron? How about WorldCom, Tyco, Adelphia, Arthur Andersen, or Bernie Madoff.
The US spends more of its GDP on education than Canada (17.% vs 12.7%) and accounts for 28 percent of the global education budget but just 4 percent of the world’s children.
But we have 2 MILLION in prison.
Explain that please.
AshtonPhoto 6 months ago
@Rhunidian
Hold on.
Haven't we got more access to education now than at any previous time in history?
Isn't spending on education is at an all time high?
Ok, try this:
Pick a random topic. Let's say SCUBA diving.
I know *nothing* about it, not even what 'SCUBA' means.
Now I can do nothing but look online and go to the library and I can become an expert on that subject if I put my mind to it.
Education imparts information, not a work ethic or discipline or self-control.
AshtonPhoto 6 months ago
@Rhunidian
The world is unfair.
Also, some people do not want to be educated.
AshtonPhoto 6 months ago
You never really seem to answer the questions that are asked. In this case, that being how can an uneducated mass be a productive workforce.
TrueLibertine 8 months ago
@TrueLibertine The answer to that question was that there have been no improvements in results and that the current results are agreed by most to be sub-par.
seinjunkie 8 months ago
@TrueLibertine
They did answer.
School choice. Charter schools, home schooling, competition.
AshtonPhoto 6 months ago
The government has failed with education. There's no better/worse example than the U.S.
doc7474 8 months ago
Are you listening, public school teachers? Better go see what your union thinks (and what they want you to think) about this video and the points it makes.
hannas1234 8 months ago
Stop switching sides!?!?!? Its making me go crazy. Matt stay on the the right (stage)!
adulby 8 months ago
Oh, and one other key difference: we don't indulge the childish fantasies of our most deluded citizens and include bullshit like intelligence design in our science curriculum.
EuchridEucrow1 8 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1 do you only teach them the extremely fact based theory of evolution? You got no proof only theory.
1513madison 8 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1
So in your reality complex DNA just randomly popped out of heavily irradiated warm mud and produced thousands of intricately functioning, interdependent biological and chemical systems - all from a massive explosion.
I see.
AshtonPhoto 5 months ago
China, India, Japan, South Korea and Canada - these are countries that make investments in human capital through education. That's the way you spur sustainable economic growth and that's why are our students continually score higher than the over-privileged obese cases you people are turning out.
EuchridEucrow1 8 months ago
@EuchridEucrow1 Japan, South Korea, and Canada (as well as Western Europe) all benefit from America's larger defense budget. (China and India take in more revenue than the rest of these countries because they practice a lot more free market principles then the "well educated west"). We can spend a lot more of our revenue on education, but most of the educated world will have to spend more on their defense as a result.
Rensune 8 months ago
And of course the idea of a voucher system is fairly stupid on its face. Does anyone actually believe the kids with impoverished backgrounds are going to be handed vouchers to the schools attended by the upper 1%? What are you fucking high?
They'll get vouchers to dilapidated structures staffed with instructors scrapped from the bottom of the barrel. The teachers who couldn't secure the higher paying jobs reserved for educators of the upper class. Teachers so bad, they have no options.
EuchridEucrow1 8 months ago
The education system of the United States ranks in at #17 according to the OECD. Pop quiz, how many of the countries ahead of it rely on a completely privatized school system? Any guesses? Don't be shy now. You got it, 0!
Which of course misses the point. Libertarians aren't for eliminating public education entirely because they think it will be a general improvement. It's quite simply about them looking at an inner-city kid and seeing nothing but a waste of money. And that's all it's about.
EuchridEucrow1 8 months ago
It's all about gradually changing the public's mind set. Vouchers first, to introduce competition and give control to the parents. That will cause prices to drop as competitive practices increase quality and decrease price. THEN and ONLY THEN can we even have a discussion about lowering property taxes and such.
eagleeye1975 8 months ago
@eagleeye1975 - Right with ya, Jared :-)
I personally would like to see a performance-based opt-out of high school. If a 14 year old gets more than a certain score on the SATs, they should be able to opt-out of high school completely. A large majority of the money would follow them, while some stays with the high school, and a percentage is held for a grant fund. As the percentage opting out grows, grants should be given to those districts who have high opt-outs and college scholarship rates.
Slipknotyk06 8 months ago
We need a separation of school and state, for the same reason we have a separation of church and state. Privatize all schools, give them to parent-run boards. As a transition, give a full-ride scholarship (voucher) to all poor kids. Later, this program can be taken over by private tuition grants and scholarships. Allow competition.
freesk8 8 months ago
Something that would be a benefit to privatizing (or at least localizing): less bullying.
If Kid A is bullied by Kid B in a public school and complains, the bully will get a suspension and a talking to, and the cycle begins again.
At a private school, if Kid A is bullied by Kid B and complains, Kid A's parent can tell the dean "Kick the bully out of the school or I am going elsewhere. Though I can only see that happening if the problem is rampant or if enough complain. Though its a step up.
liknital07 8 months ago
@liknital07 Why not simply send the bully to therapy or have him talk to a school therapist? Would freshman hazing count as "bullying"? Some traditions need to be kept intact.
jaymthegenius 8 months ago
@jaymthegenius If the freshman hazing is involuntary, yes. If said freshman willingly submits to it, then no.
Yeah, school therapists are a great idea, but has little to no effect for repeat offenders
liknital07 8 months ago
The Federal Government should stay out of education! Education by the state should stop at public libraries! Schools should be private or ran by the local community.
MrWatchdawg77 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
"reason TV" ? bullshit.!Right wing dogma TV.
ANTIDALLARD 8 months ago
@ANTIDALLARD Wow, you're an intellectual force to be reckoned with, aren't you?
ElCillian 8 months ago
@ElCillian Open your mind .
ANTIDALLARD 8 months ago
@ElCillian And I hope you enjoy your little anarchy fantasy, cos thats all it'll ever amount to. A fantasy
ANTIDALLARD 8 months ago
@ANTIDALLARD I'm far from an anarchist, but good for you for trying to paint anybody who favours educational reform as an anarchist.
ElCillian 8 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@ElCillian You are CLOSE to being an anarchist if you agree with the ideas of these right wing reason TV motherfuckers. If Amerca didnt have a century of publicly funded education, it would never have developed into THE industrial powerhouse. You "free mkt", "free for all" , "trickle down" idiots make me sick, with your shallow ideas about freedom.
ANTIDALLARD 8 months ago
More importantly, what happened to The Jacket? Has it declared independence and seceded? Is it on strike? Does Reason Foundation allow employee unions?
mmnootzenpoof 8 months ago
@mmnootzenpoof It wouldn't allow the coercive sort of union that makes up most of todays unions. Coercive unions force new employees to join and coerce their employer with government granted priveledges like forced settlements as well as the government allowing them to surround their employer's land with picketers who don't let scabs or customers through.
A voluntary union would have the right to organize with consenting employees, quit suddenly en-masse and picket in an unobstructive way.
Hashishin13 8 months ago
@Hashishin13 That still doesn't explain where The Jacket is.....
mmnootzenpoof 8 months ago
@mmnootzenpoof part 2
It would still be up to the employer whether or not to just fire people for organizing, but if they formed a voluntary union and the employer still fired them he/she would probably look like an ass.
Hashishin13 8 months ago
It seems we've reached the unfortunate point where people think only the government can educate. Education has historically been private, the same with roads, fire departments, police and even courts. The government simply took over education, for the most part, in the end of the 19th century and now people can't imagine a society like it was before.
reapfreak 8 months ago
@reapfreak Whoever said only the government can educate? The people who spend outrageous amounts of money on SSAT, interview, and essay preparation (in addition to the actual private school tuition itself) surely don't believe that! School in many districts are actually just training, and not every school has Latin or even Business Law electives. I largely blame John Dewey for education's decline and whim-based education.
jaymthegenius 8 months ago
A libertarians view on state run education is to first not be educated by the state. After that, there is no need to explain it or anything else anymore because you will know.
Mauhadeeb28 8 months ago
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Charlesperalo 8 months ago